[TheOverman]

Yeah scared her incompetence will be dysfunctional to the efficiency of the country.

[dungeonguy88]

Originally Posted by Ray9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Actually as a commentor on a political forum I am never happier than when I make unpopular points on hot topics. Nothing brings out the true colors of any group like an issue that gernerates emotional responses. There are two sides to the equation in this thread but most only address one side because they let their emotions dictate their focus. The thread is about Democrats and their media minions who crusade against an indivdual whom they go to great lengths to smear and portray as inept. Instead of exploring the obvious illogical fallacy of this behavior, most responders just throw mud from the crowd and ignore the underlying issue. An inept individual would be regarded as non threatening and so not worthy of the time and effort they expend. This is illogical and can be explained most clearly by the fact that they may be afraid for some reason.

As I said it's not illogical, it's entertainment. Not to repeat myself, but by the logic you've presented the only thing more terrifying to the public than Sarah Palin is the cast of Jersey Shore, or as another poster mentioned Charlie Sheen. People like a few things in their reality TV, extremely flawed individuals, drama, and a storyline that lets them say to themselves "Look, good guys and bad guys, I have a narrative now". Perhaps some people target SP as some sort fear based reaction, but I feel safe in assuring you that the vast majority of the media only brings her up for ratings. It's the same reason the Anthony Weiner "Scandal" was in the media for 3 weeks; people don't want the news, they want a story, and the best stories are populated with "interesting" people.

[LaoTzu]

Originally Posted by Ray9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Actually as a commentor on a political forum I am never happier than when I make unpopular points on hot topics. Nothing brings out the true colors of any group like an issue that gernerates emotional responses. There are two sides to the equation in this thread but most only address one side because they let their emotions dictate their focus. The thread is about Democrats and their media minions who crusade against an indivdual whom they go to great lengths to smear and portray as inept. Instead of exploring the obvious illogical fallacy of this behavior, most responders just throw mud from the crowd and ignore the underlying issue. An inept individual would be regarded as non threatening and so not worthy of the time and effort they expend. This is illogical and can be explained most clearly by the fact that they may be afraid for some reason.

You're a little off kilter, and so maybe I can explain it to you...Perhaps once in your life, you'll accept what's said from those you so callously malign and impugn:

Palin is an idiot. She's a farce against everything the USA is supposed to stand for. She is a by-product of an electorate that is shockingly without purpose, focus, and is proudly schizophrenic. The US populace is so overwhelmed with information; they've tuned out just enough to allow for someone like Palin to gain traction. People have developed severe ADD on such a grand scale, that someone like Palin can be made to look like a shining beacon of intellectual light. The US is going to die, because Politics is being sabotaged for the sake of ratings... nothing will ever be done, because consensus is antithetical to "being American"; a sentimentality that has been manipulated to mean whatever the hell you desire it to mean.




Dem's hate her fucking guts because she's a bad example of the country. The right loves Palin because they mistakenly take the Dem's disdain as some vouch of authenticity. The Dem's turn up the smack-talk... because obviously the Right hasn't properly judged their own candidate. The Right again mistakes the rhetoric as ill-conceived, and petty... Palin rises in their eyes yet again. The Dems finally say 'whatever'... recognizing that no SANE Republican will ever vote for her... yet she's constantly on TV...and the Loopy-er Righties can't seem to let go of it.... and they keep talking.... and talking.... and talking.... and talking... Until finally the Dem's say "SHUT UP SHE'S STOOOOPID!" (making themselves seem like petty thugs in the eyes of the ever-childlike , can't get over highschool , sycophantic Right winger..

Dems hate her, because She's living proof that their once-capable Political competitors have given up on reasonable debate, and that Democracy .... REAL Democracy where two valid ideologies are trumpeted... is quite dead.

[Ray9]

Originally Posted by LaoTzu To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

You're a little off kilter, and so maybe I can explain it to you...Perhaps once in your life, you'll accept what's said from those you so callously malign and impugn: Palin is an idiot. She's a farce against everything the USA is supposed to stand for. She is a by-product of an electorate that is shockingly without purpose, focus, and is proudly schizophrenic. The US populace is so overwhelmed with information; they've tuned out just enough to allow for someone like Palin to gain traction. People have developed severe ADD on such a grand scale, that someone like Palin can be made to look like a shining beacon of intellectual light. The US is going to die, because Politics is being sabotaged for the sake of ratings... nothing will ever be done, because consensus is antithetical to "being American"; a sentimentality that has been manipulated to mean whatever the hell you desire it to mean. Dem's hate her fucking guts because she's a bad example of the country. The right loves Palin because they mistakenly take the Dem's disdain as some vouch of authenticity. The Dem's turn up the smack-talk... because obviously the Right hasn't properly judged their own candidate. The Right again mistakes the rhetoric as ill-conceived, and petty... Palin rises in their eyes yet again. The Dems finally say 'whatever'... recognizing that no SANE Republican will ever vote for her... yet she's constantly on TV...and the Loopy-er Righties can't seem to let go of it.... and they keep talking.... and talking.... and talking.... and talking... Until finally the Dem's say "SHUT UP SHE'S STOOOOPID!" (making themselves seem like petty thugs in the eyes of the ever-childlike , can't get over highschool , sycophantic Right winger.. Dems hate her, because She's living proof that their once-capable Political competitors have given up on reasonable debate, and that Democracy .... REAL Democracy where two valid ideologies are trumpeted... is quite dead.

This is a pretty good example of the emotionalism cited earlier. Emotionalism can distort perception and produce an illogical picture of reality:

	"SHUT UP SHE'S STOOOOPID!"

Truly stupid people rarely(probably never) rise to the rank of the governorship of a state. How many of those who call her stupid have governed a state? Palin has a personality and a manner that can grate on the nerves of some people but to call that stupid is a mistake. She is not stupid.

Emotionalism again:

	Palin is an idiot. She's a farce against everything the USA is supposed to stand for.

What exactly is the USA supposed to stand for? It could be argued that the USA is the only country on Earth where an average person can, through hard work and perseverence, (not government handouts, class warfare and identity politics) elevate him or herself to any position in society. Not the key word here is hard work, not an elitist education.

More emotionalism:

	Dems hate her, because She's living proof that their once-capable Political competitors have given up on reasonable debate, and that Democracy .... REAL Democracy where two valid ideologies are trumpeted... is quite dead.

This is the most revealing statement of all. The fact that a female like Palin can attain the status she enjoys without the benefit of government central planning and the political myth of group victimology makes her ideology invalid. It has to be invalidated because it is a threat to the "valid" ideology of government expansion at the expense of personal liberty. Now we're getting somewhere. Palin is the embodiment of an idea that exposes the fallacy of socialist-inspired government. This is what they are afraid of.

[dungeonguy88]

Originally Posted by Ray9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

This is a pretty good example of the emotionalism cited earlier. Emotionalism can distort perception and produce an illogical picture of reality: Truly stupid people rarely(probably never) rise to the rank of the governorship of a state. How many of those who call her stupid have governed a state? Palin has a personality and a manner that can grate on the nerves of some people but to call that stupid is a mistake. She is not stupid.

Some might say a truly incompetent man would not rise to the White House.

	Originally Posted by Ray9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Emotionalism again: What exactly is the USA supposed to stand for? It could be argued that the USA is the only country on Earth where an average person can, through hard work and perseverance, (not government handouts, class warfare and identity politics) elevate him or herself to any position in society. Note the key word here is hard work, not an elitist education.

And if a person is able to elevate himself with the assistance of "government handouts" that is wrong? While it's true this is a nation where anyone can raise to heights on their own hard work and intelligence, it's also true that not everyone is born into the same life. A person might have the same potential as another yet never have the opportunity to actually cultivate without the government granting an opportunity. The welfare system is over loaded and a mess, however it does help some people that genuinely need help in making something of themselves. Can a person still be a great achiever and contributor to society if at some point they've received some form of welfare in their life?

Originally Posted by Ray9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

More emotionalism: This is the most revealing statement of all. The fact that a female like Palin can attain the status she enjoys without the benefit of government central planning and the political myth of group victimology makes her ideology invalid. It has to be invalidated because it is a threat to the "valid" ideology of government expansion at the expense of personal liberty. Now we're getting somewhere. Palin is the embodiment of an idea that exposes the fallacy of socialist-inspired government. This is what they are afraid of.

I feel like I missing a few steps of your process in this one, but I'll still try for the hat trick. Why do most people think Palin was chosen to run as the VP for McCain? Putting aside any such things as legitimate qualifications or experience, what do you think most people thought when they heard of her selection? Not to say that this is is the prevailing opinion, but my first assumption was that she was selected because she was a woman that espoused a far right ideology, selected for the purpose of raking disenfranchised independent Hilary supporters in, balancing out the relatively moderate views of McCain at the time, and softening the long established image of the Republican party as being primarily the party of old, white men. While I would like to think she, or anyone, was brought onto the center stage based on her competence level, to many this scenario seems likely, and if anything public perception is what shapes history, and history is what shapes our current views. In other words if the people remember her as a pawn or a joke, she is not easily going to shake that image. And as I mentioned, touting around people that are seen as jokes, and then making fun of them...well that's the basis for a fairly large portion of the entertainment industry. Also she can be a bit of a diva.

[Imperator]

	Originally Posted by Ray9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What exactly is the USA supposed to stand for? It could be argued that the USA is the only country on Earth where an average person can, through hard work and perseverence, (not government handouts, class warfare and identity politics) elevate him or herself to any position in society. Not the key word here is hard work, not an elitist education.

*Note.

I wouldn't argue the USA alone, because the same can be said of a lot of modern countries. That's where I'd make the argument, it could be argued the modern age is the only age where an average person etc etc etc....

Of course, Ray, let's look a little more roundly, since elitist education does seem to have a few
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, especially
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.

But I suppose it's your call on interpreting whether people who do great things go to Harvard, or people who go to Harvard do great things.

[CharlieBrown]

	What exactly is the USA supposed to stand for? It could be argued that the USA is the only country on Earth where an average person can, through hard work and perseverance, (not government handouts, class warfare and identity politics) elevate him or herself to any position in society. Note the key word here is hard work, not an elitist education.

So, someone like myself who is using the Pell Grant and various other grants to pay for my education is not hardworking and not persevering? If that's in fact the opinion that you hold, what alternative route would you suggest someone like myself take? I have no means of paying for higher education, I have no equity and I do not own any property; I'm eighteen and live on my own. What you're saying is that someone, like myself, who is being educated via "government handouts," is not hard working or persevering. You're essentially referring to people like myself as parasites on the system.

Or maybe I've misunderstood your position. Please, enlighten me.

	Truly stupid people rarely(probably never) rise to the rank of the governorship of a state. How many of those who call her stupid have governed a state? Palin has a personality and a manner that can grate on the nerves of some people but to call that stupid is a mistake. She is not stupid.

I had an opportunity to work along side the mayor of a town neighboring mine. She's a nice lady, attractive and knew all the right things to say to get people to like her. Unfortunately, after working with her I came to realize that that was all she could do. She has little to no common sense and very few skills besides being able to spout platitudes and talking points. I compare her to Palin, because the two in my eyes are equal; at least in an intellectual sense. Palin isn't very intelligent, that's just the way she is. The media is obsessed with her because she's a celebrity in the eyes of the American public, their coverage of her is to stimulate public schadenfreude and affection. It's very tablodian, this is why many people do not feel comfortable with her holding the highest position in American government. Would you feel comfortable with someone with the intellectual capacity of Paris Hilton as POTUS?

[Arcanist]

Originally Posted by CharlieBrown To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

So, someone like myself who is using the Pell Grant and various other grants to pay for my education is not hardworking and not persevering? If that's in fact the opinion that you hold, what alternative route would you suggest someone like myself take? I have no means of paying for higher education, I have no equity and I do not own any property; I'm eighteen and live on my own. What you're saying is that someone, like myself, who is being educated via "government handouts," is not hard working or persevering. You're essentially referring to people like myself as parasites on the system.

Life isn't fair. I suggest you take that to heart now, while you're young.

And yes, it is parasitic. But hey, we were all born into this system without a choice. So take whatever you can and feel free to abuse everything. It'll bring us to much needed ruin that much faster.

With destruction comes new growth.

[Ray9]

So, someone like myself who is using the Pell Grant and various other grants to pay for my education is not hardworking and not persevering? If that's in fact the opinion that you hold, what alternative route would you suggest someone like myself take? I have no means of paying for higher education, I have no equity and I do not own any property; I'm eighteen and live on my own. What you're saying is that someone, like myself, who is being educated via "government handouts," is not hard working or persevering. You're essentially referring to people like myself as parasites on the system.

This is a tough one. I got some assistance from the GI Bill but I basically worked my way through school. In other words I worked full time and went to school at night. I'm still doing it. I'm required right now to earn a certificate in special engineering so the company can qualify for certain contracts. I never used Pell Grants. I had a few student loans which I paid back by working two jobs. I'm not specifically against providing aid for education as long as the recipient of that aid is contributing some sweat equity to achieve that education. The problem today is that a lot of the free education being provided today is creating people indoctrinated to the notion that socialism is the basis to success. Many of these people end up in government jobs so they basically go through their entire lives without ever working for a living. Anthony Weiner is a good example of that. As far as an alternative route I don't know enough about your situation to make any suggestions. If I were in your shoes today I would probably do what you are doing because it's the path of least resistance. The government has fucked up the economy to the extent where you would be hard pressed to work your way through school today.

[IslandHead]

	Originally Posted by Arcanist To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Life isn't fair. I suggest you take that to heart now, while you're young. And yes, it is parasitic. But hey, we were all born into this system without a choice. So take whatever you can and feel free to abuse everything. It'll bring us to much needed ruin that much faster. With destruction comes new growth.

I would argue it is symbiotic, both parties benefit. The state gains a more useful citizen, and the individual agains an education and more opportunity.

[CharlieBrown]

	Originally Posted by Arcanist To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	And yes, it is parasitic. But hey, we were all born into this system without a choice. So take whatever you can and feel free to abuse everything. It'll bring us to much needed ruin that much faster. With destruction comes new growth.

So, vote straight ticket Republican?

[Vermillion]

lol Sara Palin is the best thing ever for the Democraps.
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[LaoTzu]

It's a shame Ray, that you had to prove you don't read very carefully.


I'll break it down for you:
Palin is not running.
She just doesn't have the votes: IN THE GOP CAMP. That's why she was trying to gain the Tea-Partiers... and It didn't work. As it is now she's just holding the fringe of the Right-Wing.
If She runs, it will be because certain early candidates will be removed; and She may be chosen in order to hold whatever part of the base that those particular candidates were pandering to. The fact that She hasn't been given the nod is very telling.

You want to know why She's not mainstream GOP?


Because too many in the GOP know She's incapable too.


[HIDE="P.S."]

	Originally Posted by Ray9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	What exactly is the USA supposed to stand for? It could be argued that the USA is the only country on Earth where an average person can, through hard work and perseverence, (not government handouts, class warfare and identity politics) elevate him or herself to any position in society. Not the key word here is hard work, not an elitist education.

I don't recall that bracketed part in any of the PSA's I used to hear as a kid... Must have been that 'Socialist' Sesame Street....
[/HIDE]

[Arcanist]

	Originally Posted by CharlieBrown To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So, vote straight ticket Republican?

If you want real change, and the Republicans destroy us there faster then so be it.

---------- Post added 06-17-2011 at 09:34 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by IslandHead To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I would argue it is symbiotic, both parties benefit. The state gains a more useful citizen, and the individual agains an education and more opportunity.

Hey, whatever helps you sleep at night. It's theft. We both know it and I have a whole lot more respect for people who admit it.

I love looting the state. Because hey, I deserve it.

[CharlieBrown]

	Originally Posted by Arcanist To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If you want real change, and the Republicans destroy us there faster then so be it. ---------- Post added 06-17-2011 at 09:34 PM ---------- Hey, whatever helps you sleep at night. It's theft. We both know it and I have a whole lot more respect for people who admit it. I love looting the state. Because hey, I deserve it.

How fatalistic of you. See, I can't tell if you're being serious or not. Invoking Poe's law on this one.

[Moya Anomalous]

Here is an article with accompanying proof supporting the idea that Palin is no different then George W. Bush and works with the NeoCons


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[patrick12]

	Originally Posted by Moya Anomalous To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Here is an article with accompanying proof supporting the idea that Palin is no different then George W. Bush and works with the NeoCons To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

This has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

[meanlittlechimp]

	Originally Posted by Ray9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	This is a tough one. I got some assistance from the GI Bill but I basically worked my way through school. The problem today is that a lot of the free education being provided today is creating people indoctrinated to the notion that socialism is the basis to success.

You were a GI bill recipient?!?! Really?!?!

Are you saying the GI Bill was wasted on everyone, but you? How much did you get btw? What portion of your tuition? Where did you fight? Korea or Vietnam?

Do you realize that when a similar bill was proposed for Iraq War veterans, it was called "socialism" and shut down by the republicans as even something to be considered? So it was great when you received this "socialism"; but it's no longer good today because today's students are indoctrinated with socialism, when they receive this tainted education?

Then you say the majority of people who get a college education, end up working for the government - which further increases this sycophantic environment?

Are you saying you would support a similar GI bill today, if the education wasn't wasted on communist indoctrination? or are you saying the problem today is college graduates end up just working for the government and increasing it's bloat? or both? Funny thing is I supported the notion of the GI Bill (and the great equalizer that comes with education for those that can't afford it) until................... I witnessed how it was wasted on you.

Hmmm.. You might have actually changed my mind on the issue.

[maskling]

yeah ray. our minions in the hostage liberal media have gone to such lengths to discredit her that they gave her her own show on the Discover channel. because nothing will discredit that Palin woman more than the public being exposed to her in a cutesy reality-cum-sitcom+outdoorsy teevee show. yeah. that will turn the masses agin'er. our evil plan is finally coming together...

i have been overseas for three weeks. the only english channel is Discover. i am so sick of the adds for her show- "Sarah Palin as you've never seen her before!" i may start cutting myself...

[meanlittlechimp]

	Originally Posted by Ray9 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Bush's IQ based on the SAT conversion chart is estimated to be 125-129 which places him in the top three to five percent of the general population. You are duly indoctrinated by the main stream media.

Do you realize that at Andover {where he went to high school), his SAT is a joke and would be the bottom 10% of the school? When you take a bunch of rich kids and give them the best private schools, his SAT is laughable.

Back in the 60's when George Jr attended, the Ivy league pretty much accepted anyone who was rich and attended a "feeder" school. His application wouldn't even be in the realm of consideration at a top tier school today (or anytime in the last 35 years). Back then, schools like Andover, Exeter, Choate etc had a 95% acceptance rate to Harvard and Princeton and 100% to everywhere else. You did not have to test to get into Andover or Exeter (like you do today) - you got in if you could afford the tuition and were connected.

If you think think Bush Jr is in the higher range of IQs based on his SAT score, it probably explains your respect and admiration for Palin.

Here is his transcript from college -
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If you understand the grade inflation at these schools (which hasn't really changed from his era) - they rarely give D's outside natural sciences, math or economics. Gentleman C's are what they give to people they can't fail, because it makes the school look bad with a lower matriculation rate. I've gotten B+s in some courses where I literally attended 2 or 3 classes the entire semester and barely skimmed the coursework (no exaggeration here). A B average puts you in the bottom 15% at almost all the ivies and (and the overwhelming majority of top tier undergraduate colleges). A C average typically puts you in the bottom 2 or 3%, just to give you a reference point.

[Moya Anomalous]

	Originally Posted by patrick12 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	This has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

It has everything to do with the thread.

Don't believe the hype generated for Sarah Palin. That women is only being used to cast a bad light on the Tea Party which wasn't even hers to begin with.

[VENUS 2020]

I happen to like Sarah Palin. If I have had a rough day and I need some comic relief, I flip on the internet and look for links with her name in it. The woman is hilarious in her ineptness.