[passenger]

What are good strategies against ESTPs? How can one take advantage of their weaknesses? Can you tell us a story about how you defeated one or took advantage of one?

As far as I know we usually don't get along with ESTPs. So why not exchange ideas. They are usually also highly manipulative and selfish, and honestly, I'd like to strategize against some of them INTJ-style.

I recently defeated an ESTP, in sports! He challenged me to all sorts of sports... basketball, dart, swimming etc. And it always turned out 50/50%, which became really annoying. So i thought I really want to end this.

And somehow it occured to me that he was always very energetic and that the only way to defeat him was to choose a sport that was not about being energetic, but about conserving energy. So I challenged him in diving, i.e. being able to hold your breath as long as you can.

Rounds won: INTJ 3 : ESTP 0.

[sircockburn]

Other than diving, in what arena does "conservation of energy" yield victory? A napping competition?

[Il Prodigio]

yoga. 12 rounds of boxing.

[Warrior]

	Originally Posted by passenger To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	basketball, dart, swimming etc. And somehow it occured to me that he was always very energetic and that the only way to defeat him was to choose a sport that was not about being energetic, but about conserving energy. So I challenged him in diving, i.e. being able to hold your breath as long as you can.

I hate it when I run too low on energy to get up to a full sprint toward the dart board.
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[Il Prodigio]

Beer Olympics

[Autumnleaf]

Why bother if you don't have to? I would try to read longer than him. That would show him.

[Imagineering]

Is someone jealous of Tyler Durden?

[True Rune]

Don't acknowledge the competition?

[passenger]

	Originally Posted by sircockburn To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Other than diving, in what arena does "conservation of energy" yield victory? A napping competition?

Basically all sports that last for a long time... marathon, cycling, cross-country skiing, survival etc.

	Originally Posted by Autumnleaf To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Why bother if you don't have to? I would try to read longer than him. That would show him.

I wasn't actually thinking about direct competition, but rather about strategies that ESTPs in their sensory fixation wouldn't even perceive... like knowing that you'll lose in a competition about conserving energy. He totally didn't see that coming to him!

[Tactical Panda]

I run and hide behind an ISFJ. Expecto patronum!
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[Reddkatz]

This is something that you would have to truly learn on your own as everyone is different. How long have you known that person? If you can figure out what pisses him off, then use it against him. It always pays to know your enemies :D

[SShack]

Originally Posted by passenger To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

What are good strategies against ESTPs? How can one take advantage of their weaknesses? Can you tell us a story about how you defeated one or took advantage of one? As far as I know we usually don't get along with ESTPs. So why not exchange ideas. They are usually also highly manipulative and selfish, and honestly, I'd like to strategize against some of them INTJ-style. I recently defeated an ESTP, in sports! He challenged me to all sorts of sports... basketball, dart, swimming etc. And it always turned out 50/50%, which became really annoying. So i thought I really want to end this. And somehow it occured to me that he was always very energetic and that the only way to defeat him was to choose a sport that was not about being energetic, but about conserving energy. So I challenged him in diving, i.e. being able to hold your breath as long as you can. Rounds won: INTJ 3 : ESTP 0.

You realize you're just feeding him, right? It's the competition that drives him. Losing is just going to make him compete even harder. If you keep this up, he's going to fall in love with you. Which might solve your problem.

[ManWithNoName]

Being an S and P he's probably not that good at sensing motive or thinking to far ahead so developing some kind of endgame would be key as he probably would not see it coming. If you win or not is largely going to come down to which sport you choose. In one-on-one sports with little strategy or skill, it's going to be hard to beat him and is largely going to come down to athletics. I would pick sports that require a bit more thought and require you to develop a strategy than pure exertion based ones.

Also if he is preforming poorly or using an inefficient method you may be able to manipulate him a bit by getting him emotional which would most likely cause him to put more and more energy into his efforts without first examining why they aren't working.

[sircockburn]

Originally Posted by ManWithNoName To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Being an S and P he's probably not that good at sensing motive or thinking to far ahead so developing some kind of endgame would be key as he probably would not see it coming. If you win or not is largely going to come down to which sport you choose. In one-on-one sports with little strategy or skill, it's going to be hard to beat him and is largely going to come down to athletics. I would pick sports that require a bit more thought and require you to develop a strategy than pure exertion based ones. Also if he is preforming poorly or using an inefficient method you may be able to manipulate him a bit by getting him emotional which would most likely cause him to put more and more energy into his efforts without first examining why they aren't working.

Dichotomy letters aren't everything. I'm absolutely genius at picking up others' motives.

Se keeps me immersed in the moment. Ti allows serious, deep thought. Fe makes me awesome at reading people (especially the Se-Fe combination). And if we tap into our Ni, like I do... don't even try to wear sheep's clothing, Mr. Wolf. It's totally see-through.

So OP, best not to assume ESTTPs are simple-minded clods. Otherwise the joke/defeat will be on you. Some of the best criminals and con artists were ESTP.

If you want him to back off, just let him win all the time. He'll either get bored with you because you're too easy to test his skill with, or more likely, he'll be through with you because you'll seem like a bored grinch who's losing on purpose to get rid of him.

Just tell him you'd rather hone your skills alone. He'll be gone before you finish your sentrnce.

[True Rune]

ESTPs are pretty ace at reading people.. they are definitely not thinkers though. Use their "intuition" against them if you can.

[sircockburn]

	Originally Posted by True Rune To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	ESTPs are pretty ace at reading people.. they are definitely not thinkers though. Use their "intuition" against them if you can.

So the "Ti" in the cognitive function set is just decoration?

[SShack]

	Originally Posted by sircockburn To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So the "Ti" in the cognitive function set is just decoration?

For some reason, some intuitives believe being a sensor cancels out being a thinker. I don't quite get it myself. It's really hard to be competitive and not be a thinker.

[True Rune]

	Originally Posted by SShack To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	For some reason, some intuitives believe being a sensor cancels out being a thinker. I don't quite get it myself. It's really hard to be competitive and not be a thinker.

We're talking by theory. Let's not get all butthurt and think I'm calling them idiots. They're great readers of people and can be forceful.. that's why they make great rip off artists. Se by it's nature is a function that's about action. Anyone can be intelligent, but by nature they're act first think later. Having Ti doesn't make you an INTP.

[Indubitably]

Sshack is right, you will always lose against an ESTP if you have a goal other than competition for competitions sake. Its not a question of strategy or skill (and ESTPs are alot sharper than they get credit for around here for that matter too), they will ultimately win through sheer force of attrition unless you intend to spend the rest of your life playing their games.

Let them have their "victory", then walk away. They will try their damnedest to goad you into competition, but it won't take long for them to find someone new to harass once they realize that you aren't willing to play the game.

[Shadizar]

If darts is a sport, then so is chess.

[Tactical Panda]

	Originally Posted by passenger To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	How can one take advantage of their weaknesses? Can you tell us a story about how you defeated one or took advantage of one?

I used her facial expression as a gauge for how abstract my lesson was becoming?
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Thats about it, really.