[flower]

Have you tried magnetic bracelets? Like these called
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


My daughter bought one and she swears it works, she's into karate and MTB, she says she's also not as sleepy in the mornings.

Is it like a placebo? or are there studies on it? I only found
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

The first page I linked seems to not have too much information except testimonials and how to buy, and others I looked at sell therapeutic magnets so their info is biased.

I guess they don't hurt so it's better than supplements.

Your thoughts.

[Booko]

You may or not benefit from a magnet, depending on how sensitive you are to magnetic fields. And if you are sensitive and you get a magnet that's too strong, that's as bad as not having one at all.

It's not difficult to test someone to see if they are sensitive to magnetic fields, but it's not remotely easy to explain how in words and there are things you'd have to do to avoid false positives.
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


I'm not sensitive to magnetic fields. If I wore a magnetic bracelet, it could do more harm than good. At best it would be a waste of my money.

Magnet therapy has been around for many years and there's some decent clinical data about it, but it's not likely you'll find anything online and you sure won't find much in the usual allopathic journals.

Do you have a particular medical condition you suspect might be helped by magnets? Arthritis is the usual one, but with my clients I prefer to rule out citrus sensitivity first.

[flower]

No medical conditions. I was wondering because my daughter got a bracelet for athletic endurance and balance. And I'm always a skeptic, so I wanted some feedback.

How do you test for sensitivity?

[RBM]

	Originally Posted by flower To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	No medical conditions. I was wondering because my daughter got a bracelet for athletic endurance and balance. And I'm always a skeptic, so I wanted some feedback. How do you test for sensitivity?

Depending on how you define 'skeptic' and integrate it into your life whether or not anything I can point to will satisfy your query. Most skeptics are scientific materialists of some version of other.

Your inclusion of 'placebo effect' as possible explanation is a typical hallmark of the above mindset - because the mechanisms of the effect are not identified and thus not an explanation at all.

A personal anecdote from my experience with magnets: The product I was trying out was magnetic inner soles for shoes. At the time, I could feel an improvement in my energy level. Many years later when I retried the same product I noticed no improvement. The difference that MAY have had an impact was I was an alcohol drinker the first time and a long time sober (absolutely no alcohol for many years) on the retry.

This is the same profile I've experienced with various nutritional supplements such as vitamins and such.

Next is the placebo effect aspect: If your daughter is 'results based' in her athletics, then she will find out fast whether she experiences positive impact or not, assuming your mindset is not a matter of importance to her, if all is healthy in the relationship between you two...

[Booko]

	Originally Posted by flower To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	No medical conditions. I was wondering because my daughter got a bracelet for athletic endurance and balance. And I'm always a skeptic, so I wanted some feedback.

Healthy skepticism is a good thing.

	How do you test for sensitivity?

I use muscle testing like in Applied Kinesiology. I only do that with friends and family though. If I did that in my practice the law here is so retarded I could get tossed in jail. Yay medical politics.

The general way to test for sensitivity is to do a baseline muscle test, then I'd have you touch a light switch or hold a cellphone and test you again. If your muscle goes weak, you likely have a sensitivity. The same method can be used to determine what magnet strength you may need.

Unfortunately if I tell you to test on accupuncture point K29 and the Master Point to ensure you're testable, that would mean absolutely nothing to you. Sorry.

Mostly I use magnets in selected circumstances to relieve headache or speed up healing, but it isn't always going to help if a magnet isn't what's needed. Again, I use muscle testing to see if there's any point in using one. It doesn't come up as often as other methods like cold lasers, but sometimes it's the one missing piece.

I do have clients (and friends and relatives) who tried magnetic bracelets and found it either made them hurt more of they felt like they were buzzing. I don't see magnetic bracelets as entirely benign for that reason.

Really there isn't a specific benefit to wearing a magnetic bracelet. You might just as well wear a fridge magnet in your pocket. If the strength is appropriate, it would work just the same.

I'm not really fond of the way health food stores and such sell magnetic bracelets like they're great for everyone.

[flower]

Originally Posted by RBM To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Depending on how you define 'skeptic' and integrate it into your life whether or not anything I can point to will satisfy your query. Most skeptics are scientific materialists of some version of other. Your inclusion of 'placebo effect' as possible explanation is a typical hallmark of the above mindset - because the mechanisms of the effect are not identified and thus not an explanation at all. A personal anecdote from my experience with magnets: The product I was trying out was magnetic inner soles for shoes. At the time, I could feel an improvement in my energy level. Many years later when I retried the same product I noticed no improvement. The difference that MAY have had an impact was I was an alcohol drinker the first time and a long time sober (absolutely no alcohol for many years) on the retry. This is the same profile I've experienced with various nutritional supplements such as vitamins and such. Next is the placebo effect aspect: If your daughter is 'results based' in her athletics, then she will find out fast whether she experiences positive impact or not, assuming your mindset is not a matter of importance to her, if all is healthy in the relationship between you two...

Nor would I try to alter her mindset, I believe if it's not broken why fix it, and I am refering to her belief that it helps her.

I do believe in alternative medicines and treatments, what got me doubting was the size of the magnets and my lack of understanding of how these type of magnetic fields work.

And I agree with your assesment of my skepticysm, if my mind is set, not many things will change my mind, depends on my own experience on the subject.

[Booko]

	Originally Posted by RBM To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Depending on how you define 'skeptic' and integrate it into your life whether or not anything I can point to will satisfy your query. Most skeptics are scientific materialists of some version of other. Your inclusion of 'placebo effect' as possible explanation is a typical hallmark of the above mindset - because the mechanisms of the effect are not identified and thus not an explanation at all.

Yes, I run across this quite a bit, as you might imagine. As if not knowing the mechanism yet justifies asserting it's just a placebo effect when the proper answer is: we don't know.

I am a skeptic in my field (as you can see from my comments about the sale of magnetic bracelets just everywhere and claims made about them). But I'm not a scientific materialist as you call it. More to the point I prefer to avoid ignoring repeatable results and clinical data because they don't happen to conform to my preferred worldview.

A personal anecdote from my experience with magnets: The product I was trying out was magnetic inner soles for shoes. At the time, I could feel an improvement in my energy level. Many years later when I retried the same product I noticed no improvement. The difference that MAY have had an impact was I was an alcohol drinker the first time and a long time sober (absolutely no alcohol for many years) on the retry.

That is very possible. That's also why I mentioned that with clients with osteoarthritis I look for citrus sensitivity first (and whether they drink a lot of soda). I don't see the point in masking the underlying condition when the condition can be removed. And that sounds like what might have been going on with you. Your detox system was taking a hit from the alcohol use and the magnet helped support that. But later when you're not overtaxing, the magnet is moot.

	This is the same profile I've experienced with various nutritional supplements such as vitamins and such.

Yes, that's why I prefer to be tested on supplements as well. Yeah, you have to pay the kinesiologist to do the testing, but ultimately you save money because you're not loading up with supplements you don't really need in the first place. Of course I save money on that because now my daughter just tests me for free. She's nearly as accurate.

Also, some supplements decrease in efficacy when used over a long time, and for those it's wise to switch them out now and again, or at least switch formulations.

[flower]

Originally Posted by Booko To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Healthy skepticism is a good thing. I use muscle testing like in Applied Kinesiology. I only do that with friends and family though. If I did that in my practice the law here is so retarded I could get tossed in jail. Yay medical politics. The general way to test for sensitivity is to do a baseline muscle test, then I'd have you touch a light switch or hold a cellphone and test you again. If your muscle goes weak, you likely have a sensitivity. The same method can be used to determine what magnet strength you may need. I do have clients (and friends and relatives) who tried magnetic bracelets and found it either made them hurt more of they felt like they were buzzing. I don't see magnetic bracelets as entirely benign for that reason. Really there isn't a specific benefit to wearing a magnetic bracelet. You might just as well wear a fridge magnet in your pocket. If the strength is appropriate, it would work just the same. I'm not really fond of the way health food stores and such sell magnetic bracelets like they're great for everyone.

That's really interesting and it makes alot of sense, not everything works for everyone that's true.

I just remembered that I used sole cushions with magnets this week for walking and I didn't feel as energetic but thought it was due to water retention. I'll try today without them. Of course they also have pressure points so it won't be accurate.
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[Booko]

	Originally Posted by flower To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I just remembered that I used sole cushions with magnets this week for walking and I didn't feel as energetic but thought it was due to water retention. I'll try today without them. Of course they also have pressure points so it won't be accurate. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Oh my! Yeah, if you're already wearing sole cushions with magnets, adding a bracelet would be pretty likely to give you overload.

[RBM]

	Originally Posted by Booko
	Healthy skepticism is a good thing.

A theory-of-everything author of whose works I admire uses the admonition of 'open minded skepticism' to promote critical thinking all cases.

I also used muscle testing for the inner soles as your remark

	Originally Posted by flower
	That's really interesting and it makes alot of sense, not everything works for everyone that's true.

recognizes that a product can be calibrated to any given individual.

I was really looking forward to the OP link telling how the product worked.

My interest includes the more recent INTJf link
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and in '95 looking up the author, Robert Becker, of
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
at a conference sponsored by the
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.

[Arkeph]

In my thinking, the basis for an effect on one's physiology due to a static magnetic field must be that moving ions are accelerated (normal to their velocity). One's body has a relatively low concentration of ions at any given time, so the question is how the acceleration of a small, static magnetic field affects these ions' activity in the body.

Transcranial magnetic stimulation is a case of a rapidly changing (IIRC) magnetic field affecting the activity of the brain, which relies on ion pumps for nerve impulses. However, a static magnetic field does not, to my knowledge, affect the brain in any significant way.

[Booko]

	Originally Posted by RBM To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	A theory-of-everything author of whose works I admire uses the admonition of 'open minded skepticism' to promote critical thinking all cases.

I like that phraseology. It sums up nicely what I try to aim for.

	I also used muscle testing for the inner soles as your remark

Oh yay, someone else who's even heard of this...that's very unusual online.

Hey, thanks for those links.

[RBM]

Originally Posted by Arkeph To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

In my thinking, the basis for an effect on one's physiology due to a static magnetic field must be that moving ions are accelerated (normal to their velocity). One's body has a relatively low concentration of ions at any given time, so the question is how the acceleration of a small, static magnetic field affects these ions' activity in the body. Transcranial magnetic stimulation is a case of a rapidly changing (IIRC) magnetic field affecting the activity of the brain, which relies on ion pumps for nerve impulses. However, a static magnetic field does not, to my knowledge, affect the brain in any significant way.

I would guess Arkeph, that your reply was totally out of your personal knowledge base - right or wrong ?

[Moriarty]

Magnets are cheap compared to real medicine, so it's reasonable to assume your HMO would be happy to pay for magnet therapy as a means of protecting their own bottom line if there were any hint of actual efficacy in patients.

The above argument is only sensible if you also assume that capitalistic venture is a motivator in the health care industry, of course.

[Vagrant]

	Originally Posted by Arkeph To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	In my thinking, the basis for an effect on one's physiology due to a static magnetic field must be that moving ions are accelerated (normal to their velocity). One's body has a relatively low concentration of ions at any given time, so the question is how the acceleration of a small, static magnetic field affects these ions' activity in the body.

What would the benefit be of making the ions go in circles? That doesn't make sense.

The only useful part would be if the slightly positive charge of a cell membrane depolarizes in neurons or muscle fibers, generating a current. The problem with that though, is that the induced current in the magnet would not have any effect on the body, as it would be very minute (and presumably only be touching skin cells, which are insulators).

Thing is, these are static magnets with presumably weak magnetic strength. I don't see any plausible benefit/use beyond the placebo effect.

[zibber]

	Originally Posted by flower To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	No medical conditions. I was wondering because my daughter got a bracelet for athletic endurance and balance. And I'm always a skeptic, so I wanted some feedback.

Could you give a rough sketch of your daughter's diet?

She can wear a million magnets, but some simple adjustments to diet will do so much more.

	Originally Posted by Booko To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You might just as well wear a fridge magnet in your pocket. If the strength is appropriate, it would work just the same.

Which is how?

[flower]

	Originally Posted by RBM To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I was really looking forward to the OP link telling how the product worked.

We tried some of those tests, and they did make a slight diference, more on some people than others.

She says she feels better, on the balance I don't see too much of an improvement she was always able to maintain a kick in the air for a little while, but she says it's easier.

	Originally Posted by zibber
	Could you give a rough sketch of your daughter's diet? She can wear a million magnets, but some simple adjustments to diet will do so much more.

Actually her endurance has improved because we make her eat and eat healthy. She says she's fat (mesomorph with hourglass shape, not ideal for teenage fashions), she either eats or she won't train, that's the deal. But those changes started way before she got her bracelet.