[Warrior]

	Originally Posted by pip To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Blessed be the bloody market. Can do no wrong that can't! This is one of the reasons I loathe the 'market'. Inefficiency at the behest of your desires. Vile.

Not my desires - the aggregate desires of the population. I'm not much of a sports fan at all.

[pw242]

Gladiators? Chariot racing was what it was all about

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[Tyrant Soup]

	Originally Posted by Warrior To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Can you also not stand the fact that some people get a free ride through college because they are smart?

It's not a case of simple jealousy. There are fundamental differences between promoting brains and promoting brawn.

Intellectual endeavors improve the competitiveness of our society. Simple examples would be researchers who discovers a cure for cancer, or a weapon engineers who enhance our ability to obliterate our enemies. Smart people benefits society, yet society denigrates them.

The same cannot be said for physical exploits. Hunting and fighting abilities use to be of supreme importance, but are relatively useless today. Athletes have little value to society, yet they are elevated and glorified because they benefit corporate interests. The ignorant masses allow themselves to be manipulated.

I find the whole idol culture to be intellectually distasteful on so many levels.

---------- Post added 09-21-2010 at 09:46 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by zibber To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	You too; what kind of superior hobbies do you engage in?

Well, since you asked
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....... I engaged in electronics, programming, carpentry, metal working, studying psychology and others. I think they are superior to watching at jocks in tights assert their dominance over other jocks because aside from being very enjoyable, these hobbies made me tons of cash and has also allowed me to help others.

[mrhat]

Well, since you asked To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. ....... I engaged in electronics, programming, carpentry, metal working, studying psychology and others. I think they are superior to watching at jocks in tights assert their dominance over other jocks because aside from being very enjoyable, these hobbies made me tons of cash and has also allowed me to help others

These dumb jocks also made tons of cash as well as provided entertainment to others
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I think that anyone on this board who can't use their intuition to wrap their heads around how sports/music/video games or any other so called 'inferior' activities have their place in society for many people are being willfully ignorant. Is everyone in opposition working on curing cancer or AIDS in their spare time? Give me a break.

[True Rune]

It's about the definition of "accomplishment".

[Warrior]

Originally Posted by Tyrant Soup To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

It's not a case of simple jealousy. There are fundamental differences between promoting brains and promoting brawn. Intellectual endeavors improve the competitiveness of our society. Simple examples would be researchers who discovers a cure for cancer, or a weapon engineers who enhance our ability to obliterate our enemies. Smart people benefits society, yet society denigrates them. The same cannot be said for physical exploits. Hunting and fighting abilities use to be of supreme importance, but are relatively useless today. Athletes have little value to society, yet they are elevated and glorified because they benefit corporate interests. The ignorant masses allow themselves to be manipulated. I find the whole idol culture to be intellectually distasteful on so many levels.

Will you turn away the fire fighters when your house is on fire because the athletic skill of being able to lift a heavy hose to keep your house burning down is of little value? How about the police officer who has to physically stop an attack? The rescue swimmer who pulls people out of the water as their boat is sinking? The paramedic who has to run up several flights of stairs to get to someone having a heart attack?

Physical exploits have a lot of value to society. Lots of people rely on the physical capabilities of others.

[Tyrant Soup]

	Originally Posted by mrhat To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	These dumb jocks also made tons of cash as well as provided entertainment to others To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

One jock in a million does that. The rest spend big bucks to pack their fat butts into stadiums to submissively cheer on the dominant males.

	I think that anyone on this board who can't use their intuition to wrap their heads around how sports/music/video games or any other so called 'inferior' activities have their place in society for many people are being willfully ignorant.

Strawman. Not a single person has argued that unproductive recreational activities have no place in society. My complaint is that the unwashed masses has been indoctrinated to value the nearly worthless human traits far more than the more objectively useful ones.

---------- Post added 09-22-2010 at 08:29 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Warrior To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Will you turn away the fire fighters when your house is on fire because the athletic skill of being able to lift a heavy hose to keep your house burning down is of little value? How about the police officer who has to physically stop an attack? The rescue swimmer who pulls people out of the water as their boat is sinking? The paramedic who has to run up several flights of stairs to get to someone having a heart attack?

But watching sports does little to promote physical fitness.

	Physical exploits have a lot of value to society. Lots of people rely on the physical capabilities of others.

It has some value, but not so much that we should idolize it above other traits, as we do today. If all firefighters, cops and paramedics were women, we would simply enhance technology to place less reliance on strength. The quality of service would not suffer.

---------- Post added 09-22-2010 at 08:36 PM ----------

A though just came to mind. If physical ability was so valuable, why is it necessary to promote fake environments designed to accentuate it's importance? Why wouldn't those abilities just naturally rise to the top in every day life?

[Moondyn]

	Originally Posted by Tyrant Soup To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	A though just came to mind. If physical ability was so valuable, why is it necessary to promote fake environments designed to accentuate it's importance? Why wouldn't those abilities just naturally rise to the top in every day life?

The answer is in the question.

While physical ability is a good thing to have, and I have nothing against it, professional sports are not the same thing as physical ability.

In other words, while I don't like pro-sports, I like being physically fit. 1+1=2, not 1.

People don't clump being fit and pro-sports in the same box!

And of course superior intellectual ability is the only thing that matters in technological progression.

When we can put nanobot blood cells into the blood stream thanks to intellectual work, being naturally athletic will be obsolete.
Anyone and everyone will be an Olympic champ, a pro, etc.
Just one injection, and you are an athlete.

Who will be to thank?

That's right, the smart people, not the ones with the most muscle.

So this means intellectuals are more important and should be the ones who are paid the millions a week!
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[Jon Shea]

Originally Posted by mrhat To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

These dumb jocks also made tons of cash as well as provided entertainment to others To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. I think that anyone on this board who can't use their intuition to wrap their heads around how sports/music/video games or any other so called 'inferior' activities have their place in society for many people are being willfully ignorant. Is everyone in opposition working on curing cancer or AIDS in their spare time? Give me a break.

Gonna have to agree with you on this one. The pro-sports arena is an industry of entertainment. Don't think it needs to be taken as anything more or anything less.

There's a lot of pretentiousness in this thread.

[Aronnax]

I wonder how many people who are upset about professional sports would turn down a multimillion dollar salary (or a free college education for that matter) to do something they enjoy?

[Tyrant Soup]

	Originally Posted by Jon Shea To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Gonna have to agree with you on this one.

Care to support your bias with a rational argument?

	There's a lot of pretentiousness in this thread.

Unless you're referring to yourself, you should at least try to support the condescension with an actual argument.

---------- Post added 09-23-2010 at 08:33 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Aronnax To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	I wonder how many people who are upset about professional sports would turn down a multimillion dollar salary (or a free college education for that matter) to do something they enjoy?

Non sequitur. No one has argued that jocks should not accept big bucks for doing nothing useful. Self interest is perfectly rational.

The assertion is that it is not rational for the unwashed masses to give them the big bucks.

[Booko]

	Originally Posted by elizabeth lover To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	i wish college was the way it used to be, with all the focus on academics and the intellectual, minus the discriminating against women thing.

Used to be as in when? Medieval universities?

Even then, aside from the academics and the intellectual, there was plenty of extracurricular wine, women and song.

[mrhat]

	Strawman. Not a single person has argued that unproductive recreational activities have no place in society. My complaint is that the unwashed masses has been indoctrinated to value the nearly worthless human traits far more than the more objectively useful ones.

I'll agree with you that the pen is mightier than the sword. By allocating resources towards the more productive things, we as a society will be more advanced and better off, certainly in an objective sense. The reality is that the aggregate demand of the masses wants to pay these entertainers big bucks, as stated previously. It may not be the best way to go if all you are looking for is maximum progress, but it is what it is. Don't you yourself take a step back and indulge on your pleasures from time to time? Paying billions of dollars to these entertainers for such is over the top in my opinion and it could be spent more wisely, but the masses are willing to provide it. We win as a whole and lose as a whole.

[Aronnax]

	Originally Posted by Tyrant Soup To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Non sequitur. No one has argued that jocks should not accept big bucks for doing nothing useful. Self interest is perfectly rational. The assertion is that it is not rational for the unwashed masses to give them the big bucks.

Why shouldn't people spend money on an activity they enjoy? Are you claiming pleasure is irrational?

A forum full of "thinkers" should probably "think" about the problems associated with telling others if they're allowed to enjoy an activity that causes no significant harm.

[Marcus Septim]

Meh i never understood the concept of be enamored with a team,even if you do share a particular interest in the given,even if you do it yourself amateurly

Cause lets face it,its not your struggle,its theirs,you watch a bunch of millionaires struggling in their work,but nobody comes to pay to watch you work at the office does it?
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On the contrary i have expressed admiration for the abilities of certain athletes but even for those i couldn't follow for long,i couldn't be in their position


Saddly my woman is a whole other situation and a cricket/football fan (meh!)
She watched World Cup religiously...
Weird switch ehh? (She IS INTJ also..)

[Warrior]

	Originally Posted by Moondyn To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	When we can put nanobot blood cells into the blood stream thanks to intellectual work, being naturally athletic will be obsolete.

When that perfect technology that does not fail or have shortages arrives, then it will probably arrive with the nanbots that augment intellect, thus making natural intelligence obsolete as well. Of course you will probably need to be in good physical shape to survive the transformation.

Until that glorious day arrives, I guess we're stuck with good diet, exercise, and personal responsibility - things that athletics can help us with.

---------- Post added 09-24-2010 at 04:14 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Tyrant Soup To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	If all firefighters, cops and paramedics were women, we would simply enhance technology to place less reliance on strength. The quality of service would not suffer.

You probably wouldn't need lots of new technology, since many women can and do perform a variety of physically demanding roles today thanks (in part) to advances in exercise and nutrition that athletics have contributed to.

[thref23]

Just to add - first of all athletes are paid their market values, for better or worse, and who is to say what is and isn't efficient. Sports teams contribute a good deal to local economies and contribute to national economies in various respects. And many are not paid as much as you think they are paid when you consider that many of them are only in the league for so many years, are not well qualified for other professions afterwards, and agents/government take a good chunk of their paychecks. And those getting paid millions are in the very top tier of all athletes, and it's not like they didn't work their asses off growing up (in most cases I would wager they did).

Second, a sports game can be suspenseful, like a movie. And even where playing a sport well does not necessarily require intelligence and smart decisions, managing a team requires smart, logical decisions, and game planning tends to be a strategic subject as well. A large part of sports' appeal to me, aside from maybe an energy release having played a little when I was young (I was never very coordinated/focused at every random moment/good), is being able to look at the strategy behind everything and then being able to watch everything play out in real time on a regular basis. In a sense, you could say that watching sporting events is like watching chess matches - but there is much more action and you don't have to wait as long to see the next move. Most athletes are pawns, the stars are kings and queens, team front offices and coaching staffs and what not are the chess players.

Aside from being a fan of my hometown teams, I am a borderline NBA stat geek and I enjoy fantasy basketball/football as well as researching and betting on select college football/basketball games.

On a mass-level, of course pro sports is also about national/regional pride.

[Tyrant Soup]

	Originally Posted by mrhat To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Paying billions of dollars to these entertainers for such is over the top in my opinion and it could be spent more wisely, but the masses are willing to provide it. We win as a whole and lose as a whole.

I compare commercial athletics to activities like eating junk food, booze, porn and recreational drug use. The demand is strong, but if you want to build a strong society that is able to hold it's own against foreign competitors, wouldn't you be concerned about the overindulgence?

---------- Post added 09-25-2010 at 05:23 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by Aronnax To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Why shouldn't people spend money on an activity they enjoy? Are you claiming pleasure is irrational?

If you value pleasure, excessive indulgence can be irrational if it diminishes your long term ability to maximize it.

---------- Post added 09-25-2010 at 05:52 PM ----------

	Originally Posted by thref23 To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	Just to add - first of all athletes are paid their market values, for better or worse, and who is to say what is and isn't efficient.

If supply and demand was all that matters, then we shouldn't complain about recreational drugs.

	On a mass-level, of course pro sports is also about national/regional pride.

What rational reason is there to be proud? Genetics and funding have a lot to do with a jock's success. Why should I be proud?

The whole "my city/country is better than yours cuz we can afford better jocks" thing seems silly.

[tricky]

i think what binds people to sport is the essence to belong some place, to fit in some group.

[Fox]

I always found it funny that people can be for their "home team" when most of the players aren't even from the home area.

[Axel]

	Originally Posted by Samoan Corleone To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
	So you've never heard negative terms attached to athletes like "meathead" or "all brawn and no brain?"

Of course I have, it's called jealousy. What I disapprove of is the distinction made that someone who studies hard is arrogant while someone who commits to sports are considered talented. It's a very common thing in Sweden at least, that you have to be put down as soon as you are a bit ahead in anything, except if it happens to be sports, because in sports it's "important to nurture talent", but not anywhere else. It's the attitude I'm against not the people.

[Silent type]

I enjoy watching football just as much as the next guy, but it's getting harder and harder to just enjoy the game without getting pissed off at the retardation of these fanatics. I can certainly see the value of keeping the unwashed masses occupied with a semi-violent form of entertainment, though. There's no telling what they would do without something inane to devote their energy to.

My personal favorite is listening to the unsolicited opinions about how the coach is great/terrible and how the particular fan could coach the team in a more effective manner.