Do INTJ women consider themselves cold?

[GOD]

Given that the INTJ trait for women is less than 0.5% of women.

And all the questions on the T/F pretty much point to caring and helping others... Are INTJ women outcasts?? Would they make good mothers? Would they want to have children?

*Ok, I'm trolling as well, but its an important question*


Here's a sample of the Myers types of questions asked..

You feel involved in TV soaps
You trust reason rather than feelings
Your actions are frequently influenced by emotions
You readily help people while asking nothing in return
You frequently and easily express your feelings and emotions
You tend to sympathize with other people
You value justice higher than mercy
You easily empathize with the concerns of other people
You are strongly touched by the stories about people’s troubles
You think almost everything can be analysed
You try to stand firmly by your principles
You consider the scientific approach the best
You find it difficult to talk about your feelings
You are easily affected by strong emotions
You willingly involve yourself in matters which engage your sympathies

****battle stations, battle stations.... lock down the hatches...**** ;D

[Lucid]

I am an INTJ female. I am employed part time as a nanny. I'm not a mother right now because I'm still in school, but I would someday like to have children. I think I would make an excellent mother. I don't feel like an outcast. I have a large social circle and some very close friends for whom I would do almost anything and who, in turn, would do anything for me. I may not be as openly emotional as many non-INTJ women, but I'm certainly not a robot. Why would you think otherwise?

[GOD]

I am an INTJ female. I am employed part time as a nanny. I'm not a mother right now because I'm still in school, but I would someday like to have children. I think I would make an excellent mother. I don't feel like an outcast. I have a large social circle and some very close friends for whom I would do almost anything and who, in turn, would do anything for me. I may not be as openly emotional as many non-INTJ women, but I'm certainly not a robot. Why would you think otherwise?

I think there are two types of INTJ women. Those that don't feel. And those that have an ability to reel in their emotions (for various reasons including lifetime "events") or direct them towards their immediate family circle.

Even the Myers F questions have three layers to them 1) The questions that are internally focused 2) The ones that extend into caring in the immediate group and 3) Those that project outwards to "all groups".

[Lucid]

I don't think there are any INTJ women (or men, for that matter) who don't feel. I think the difference is in how much one's emotions dictate one's actions and in how expressive one is about one's emotions.
I think it's strange to suggest there is a group of people who "don't feel." Just because we may not all share those feelings with you, it doesn't mean they aren't there.

[TooJung]

Here is the thing: I am an INTJ female, think I would make a great mother and care about the way others feel and think: as long as they have been iniated into my secret "inner world".

I thought about this one before: is motherhood for me? am I capable of unconditional love? I do love unconditionally... have my secret little space of friendships that I am extremely close with. These things just take time. One of the interesting things I feel/judge anyway, is that having an INTJ as a mother or wife is not exactly a bad thing ... it could actually work in many ways to your strategic advantage.

[Lucid]

having an INTJ as a mother or wife is not exactly a bad thing ... it could actually work in many ways to your strategic advantage.

I completely agree!

[Tarrick]

I don't think there are any INTJ women (or men, for that matter) who don't feel. I think the difference is in how much one's emotions dictate one's actions and in how expressive one is about one's emotions.
I think it's strange to suggest there is a group of people who "don't feel." Just because we may not all share those feelings with you, it doesn't mean they aren't there.

Agreed. I feel, but that doesn't mean I have to show them or be dictated by them.

[The Rose]

I used to be cold. And angry.

I'm much more warm and friendly now.
I have compassion in my heart now.

[Paul V]

I used to be cold. And angry.

I'm much more warm and friendly now.
I have compassion in my heart now.

Precisely the reverse for me. I used to be a warm, friendly and compassive person, and now I'm cold and angry.

[Lucid]

I find that I've become more friendly and compassionate as I've gotten older as well.

[GOD]

I still think though that the typing does indetify women who are cold hearted, simply by the questions asked. I'd say as an absolute minimum there are 5% of society that are this way.... More of them being typed in INTJ.. I think so.

Incidently I did get my mother to type herself... she was INTJ.

The difference though is that she was a real F that cloaked herself in T to maintain a focus on the world. She was a very nervous, shy but extremely resolved person. Definitely a clinically depressed person. I think trying to follow her head and not her heart caused her plenty of mental anguish.

However, I think she was really an INFJ that became INTJ due to my father being an INTJ.

[Lucid]

I think that what you consider to be "cold hearted" others classify as simply less prone to showing emotion or acting on it alone.
The problem seems to be that you believe the outer appearance to be the same as the inner state. This is not the case.

[cielo market]

I'm not cold. I'm just incredibly uninterested.

[Rei]

I think I look/sound a lot colder than I really am.

I have low tolerance for incompetence and such, but I'd consider myself quite a bit more compassionate/nicer than a lot of people I know. I like helping people (or perhaps I just seriously believe I do things more efficiently than them :blank:).

Myself as a mother. I think I'd be slightly ridiculously demanding a mother, but not cold. In fact, I've been known as 'the mother' among my guy friends. (depressing really... It could also be a result of my borderline N that causes me to show ISTJ traits).

[Lucid]

Incidently I did get my mother to type herself... she was INTJ.
The difference though is that she was a real F that cloaked herself in T to maintain a focus on the world.


You know... something occurs to me.

You saw your mother as an emotional being because she showed you her emotional side. I didn't know your mother (obviously) and won't pretend to know what she was like.
BUT INTJs (especially the females) are notorious for only showing their feelings and being emotional around people who are within their utmost inner circles. As her son, you would likely have fallen within that category for your mother.
I think it may be possible that you are reading a "cold-hearted" INTJ female as an F because you knew her very very well and she was comfortable expressing her emotions around you.

*Edit:
I have little nephews (they're 5 years old) and I am much more openly affectionate, playful and nurturing with them than with most other people, even other adult family members.

[INTJgal]

The INTJ's function order goes:

Ni, Te, Fi, Se.

In a healthy version of an INTJ, the Ni and Te will be well-developed and skillfully used by the time she is old enough to become a parent. The argument would be she wouldn't have enough F(i or e) to be a good mother? Even if she hadn't developed her Fi at this stage of life, there are a tons of things that support the positive relationship.

You can't ignore the biological connections between the parent & child that exist for both father and mother, nevermind the extra intimacy boost that comes with breastfeeding and the exchange of (?) oxytocin.
I would also hazard a guess that an INTJ is probably second behind only the ISTJ to be the least likely to accidentally become pregnant. Which means she wants kids. An INTJ with a goal will only commit if they actually are All In. INTJs are great at consciously and thoughtfully figuring out how to meet others' needs whom they value, and I would assume an INTJ parent would be good at this.

On top of that, there are plenty of INTJ females out there who have picked up enough abilites to relate and interact adequately in society, playing the Socially Capable Female Role. (This doesn't mean she uses the skills all the time, and likely it didn't come naturally, but a healthy INTJ likely has acquired these skills.)

Also, there's life circumstances factors. I grew up around plenty of F types. I have F skills from them. I have also had enough wake-up calls by losing loved ones that I am more than aware of how important relationships are to me; I intellectually value relationships as the most important thing in my life.

I don't see myself as cold. I will make a damn good mother because I a) want to be a mother; it is important to me and b) I hate to fail and I hate to suck as things I value. So even in the most unlikely of circumstances, I'm not going to screw up something I value so much as parenting.

(I mean, I'm sure I will be driven nuts with any ESFP child, but seriously, we'll figure stuff out. The positives will outweigh the negatives.)

THe only thing I'm concerned about is having a kid with a mental handicap. I will deal, but man, that would be a really rough blow. Physical handicaps are rough too, but the mental ones would be the scariest, IMO.

[GOD]

You know... something occurs to me.

You saw your mother as an emotional being because she showed you her emotional side. I didn't know your mother (obviously) and won't pretend to know what she was like.
BUT INTJs (especially the females) are notorious for only showing their feelings and being emotional around people who are within their utmost inner circles. As her son, you would likely have fallen within that category for your mother.
I think it may be possible that you are reading a "cold-hearted" INTJ female as an F because you knew her very very well and she was comfortable expressing her emotions around you.

I think you've got some things confused here. I'm saying that I believe that a greater proportion of women typing as INTJ will be colder than that expected of the populous at large. It’s a pretty fair assumption looking at the questions that actually determine the typing.

With respect to my mother, no, everyone knew her to be a sensitive soul. But in an INTJ environment she just had to adapt, so although she typed consciously with INTJ I think she was really an underlying INFJ.

[ShiningLight]

BUT INTJs (especially the females) are notorious for only showing their feelings and being emotional around people who are within their utmost inner circles.

For me, it's something akin to a sandwich model. I classify the people I regularly come into contact with into three categories: acquintance, close acquintance, and friend. I don't think my acquintances see me as cold because I help them whenever I can without expecting anything in return. It's just something I've learned about social interactions: if people see me as cold or standoffish, then even if we share something in common, we'd never get to know one another because they'd find me too intimidating to approach. I've actually managed to find one or two like minds once I dug beneath the surface, but I can't do so without the superficial niceties first. So yes, I try to be warm to people, do small talk and the other things expected of me.

However, as people get to know me better, they will feel me "cooling off." While I try to be supportive to my acquintances, I think there is really a disconnect between my outwardly expressed emotions and my innermost feelings. I do care about the well-being of every individual that I've come to know, but would I cry or feel depressed if they died? Probably not. Superficiality (small talk, doing nice things for people) only encourages shallow emotions; these people haven't tapped into my rich world of feelings or my capacity to care. I find that as acquintances become close acquintances, I let them know me better and no longer bother to put up a "nice" front, hence the cooling off.

Then lastly there are those I consider my friends. Actually, correction: friend in the singular. I was sincerely warm to him, but now that I look back, I wonder why my genuine feelings didn't measure up to my facade. Maybe I'm just calm/cool at my core? It's something I'm still trying to figure out. ETA: I find that my most intense passions are directed at things, not people. Possibly this serves as an explanation to the above observation?

Similar experiences, anyone?

[Firelie]

Cold? No. I can be incredibly loving and affectionate when I consider someone worth it. I actually think I'll make a far better mother than a lot of the women out there raising all of the little misbehaving asshats I tend to meet nowadays.

[deicruxified]

probably cold in a sense that when in making decisions, we still value reason over feelings. most intj women have a hard eggshell and are also hopeless romantics as intj men are. like everyone here, i'd also like to be a mother. from time to time, i also babysit my niece and he is closer to me than to her mother.

but i do agree with GOD to some extent. compared to other women i do seem colder.

[INTJgal]

probably cold in a sense that when in making decisions, we still value reason over feelings. most intj women have a hard eggshell and are also hopeless romantics as intj men are. like everyone here, i'd also like to be a mother. from time to time, i also babysit my niece and she is closer to me than to her mother.

but i do agree with GOD to some extent. compared to other women i do seem colder.

;)

[deicruxified]

;)

oh yeah i forgot... thanxee

[Lucid]

I think you've got some things confused here. I'm saying that I believe that a greater proportion of women typing as INTJ will be colder than that expected of the populous at large. It’s a pretty fair assumption looking at the questions that actually determine the typing.

With respect to my mother, no, everyone knew her to be a sensitive soul. But in an INTJ environment she just had to adapt, so although she typed consciously with INTJ I think she was really an underlying INFJ.

I'm sorry if I misunderstood you. You described INTJ females as being without emotion and cold hearted, but maybe those things mean different things to you than they do to me. Perhaps I didn't understand what you meant by cold.

I think that we have an undeserved reputation for being without emotion. Quite frankly, I was a little hurt to be described as cold hearted and possibly a bad mother. INTJs of both genders can be extremely hypersensitive as well. :undecided:

I think that INTJgal raised a lot of really good points and insights. :thumbsup:

*edit*

On top of that, there are plenty of INTJ females out there who have picked up enough abilites to relate and interact adequately in society, playing the Socially Capable Female Role. (This doesn't mean she uses the skills all the time, and likely it didn't come naturally, but a healthy INTJ likely has acquired these skills.)


I agree with this and think that in my limited experience, INTJ females seem to be more likely to be socially adept than their male counterparts. Perhaps this is because females in general are more social than males in general? And I don't mean to offend any male INTJs (or any other type). Many of them can be as (if not more) socially adept than a female.

[INTJgal]

I think that INTJgal raised a lot of really good points and insights. :thumbsup:



Thanks, Lucid :)

[WavesSootheMe]

This may be a bit repetitive, but I think INTJ females are perceived as cold much more than they actually are. On top of that, they are perceived as cold much more than their male counterparts due to the striking dissonance with the stereotype for their gender. It's more socially acceptable for a male to be seen as detached or unemotional.

This, however, does not make us social outcasts. I have been quite successful at navigating the female world and at finding friends of my gender that look past stereotypes and understand my approach. Perhaps not showing sympathy/emotion on a regular basis alienates me from some women, but definitely not all and definitely not to the point of being an outcast. I think some of my female friends actually appreciate when I can give them a different perspective on a topic.

I don't want children at this point, but I'm not completely ruling it out yet. If I decide to not have children, it's not because I think that I wouldn't be able to love and care for a child or that I would be a horrible mother. It's because having a child is a big commitment, especially for a woman. I have a ton of goals that I want to accomplish in life, and I would have to set many of them aside for a child. Like others have said, when I do something I do it fully. I'm sure that INTJ women, that make motherhood an objective, commit to it fully and actually make very dedicated, wonderful mothers.

I have felt that sort of "mental anguish" due to conflicting emotion/thought that GOD mentions. I'm very skilled at using thought and reason to make decisions, but weak at understanding what I'm feeling and why, especially when the emotion that I'm experiencing doesn't match well with the conclusion that makes the most sense to me. The best way to deal with this is to accept the emotion as valid, instead of fighting it like I used to. Once I do that I can usually get a new perspective, figure out the source of the emotion, and then work some reason into it so I can deal with the situation rationally, as is my preference. GOD: You obviously know your mother best, and she may very well be an F as you say, but I don't think that the reasons you gave here really make it so. Feeling is a function in which an individual uses subjective experience, instead of logic and facts, to make decisions. With feeling, conclusions are based on personal values and preferences. Emotion is something different. It is a mental state that arises spontaneously and is often accompanied by physiological changes. Emotion does not go unexperienced by those that use logic to draw conclusions. That being said, it is possible to be a clinically depressed INTJ, which would certainly make you less emotionally stable than a healthy INTJ.

[rwyatt365]

INTJs as a rule have been characterized as being cold, unfeeling pseudo-humans. Female INTJs, even more so because of the dissonance that WavesSootheMe points out, between the social norm and the INTJ (lack of) expression of emotion.

What most people fail to realize is that we have feelings too, deep feelings that we just don’t let everyone have access to. Many of you have stated that you are sensitive to hurts, just like any other person. It's just that you have learned, or know inherently, how to compartmentalize those hurts and "forge ahead" with life. The upside is that you can remain effective in the face of experiences that might cripple others. The downside is that too many end up having no release for those pent-up hurts and become dysfunctional at some level.

That's not only true for the female INTJ, the males have to overcome that as well.

[Lucid]

This may be a bit repetitive, but I think INTJ females are perceived as cold much more than they actually are. On top of that, they are perceived as cold much more than their male counterparts due to the striking dissonance with the stereotype for their gender. It's more socially acceptable for a male to be seen as detached or unemotional.

This, however, does not make us social outcasts. I have been quite successful at navigating the female world and at finding friends of my gender that look past stereotypes and understand my approach. Perhaps not showing sympathy/emotion on a regular basis alienates me from some women, but definitely not all and definitely not to the point of being an outcast. I think some of my female friends actually appreciate when I can give them a different perspective on a topic.

I don't want children at this point, but I'm not completely ruling it out yet. If I decide to not have children, it's not because I think that I wouldn't be able to love and care for a child or that I would be a horrible mother. It's because having a child is a big commitment, especially for a woman. I have a ton of goals that I want to accomplish in life, and I would have to set many of them aside for a child. Like others have said, when I do something I do it fully. I'm sure that INTJ women, that make motherhood an objective, commit to it fully and actually make very dedicated, wonderful mothers.

I have felt that sort of "mental anguish" due to conflicting emotion/thought that GOD mentions. I'm very skilled at using thought and reason to make decisions, but weak at understanding what I'm feeling and why, especially when the emotion that I'm experiencing doesn't match well with the conclusion that makes the most sense to me. The best way to deal with this is to accept the emotion as valid, instead of fighting it like I used to. Once I do that I can usually get a new perspective, figure out the source of the emotion, and then work some reason into it so I can deal with the situation rationally, as is my preference. GOD: You obviously know your mother best, and she may very well be an F as you say, but I don't think that the reasons you gave here really make it so. Feeling is a function in which an individual uses subjective experience, instead of logic and facts, to make decisions. With feeling, conclusions are based on personal values and preferences. Emotion is something different. It is a mental state that arises spontaneously and is often accompanied by physiological changes. Emotion does not go unexperienced by those that use logic to draw conclusions. That being said, it is possible to be a clinically depressed INTJ, which would certainly make you less emotionally stable than a healthy INTJ.

Very well said.

[Santana28]

Originally Posted by WavesSootheMe
This may be a bit repetitive, but I think INTJ females are perceived as cold much more than they actually are. On top of that, they are perceived as cold much more than their male counterparts due to the striking dissonance with the stereotype for their gender. It's more socially acceptable for a male to be seen as detached or unemotional.

I agree with this completely. It aggrivates me to no end when people see me standing in line alone somewhere and tell me to "smile." Apparantly, i'm supposed to walk around with a toothy grin on my face at all times... who knew? I just think to myself "Why? Is there something i am supposed to be smiling about right now? Give me a reason to, and i will."

Its also caused me problems at work. I once had a job in an office. Mind you, i come from an electrical engineering background and was proficient in AutoCad. I spent my spare time at work helping out the engineering department updating their schematics and such. Well, new owners take over. They look at me and what do they see? Cute, 20 year old girl = RECEPTIONIST. Lets just say that i didn't keep my job for much longer after that fiasco... i TOLD them i'm not good at talking to people and answering phones... they didn't believe me...LOL.

[The Rose]

I agree with this completely. It aggrivates me to no end when people see me standing in line alone somewhere and tell me to "smile." Apparantly, i'm supposed to walk around with a toothy grin on my face at all times... who knew? I just think to myself "Why? Is there something i am supposed to be smiling about right now? Give me a reason to, and i will." Can I relate to this!

I used to go around with a grumpy "I'm mad at the world" look on my face, and people would tell me to "smile" - which I hate being told what to do :irked: - or ask me, "Why are you so ugly." I didn't know that was a colloquialism for "grumpy" - I thought they were telling me I was ugly. :angry: That didn't improve my mood either!


I have started going around smiling, and it does have a nice effect on others. I was just out shopping a little while ago, and my smile caused several other people to smile back at me. That's much better than the alternative. It just improves everyone's day.

[deicruxified]

I agree with this completely. It aggrivates me to no end when people see me standing in line alone somewhere and tell me to "smile." Apparantly, i'm supposed to walk around with a toothy grin on my face at all times... who knew? I just think to myself "Why? Is there something i am supposed to be smiling about right now? Give me a reason to, and i will."

Its also caused me problems at work. I once had a job in an office. Mind you, i come from an electrical engineering background and was proficient in AutoCad. I spent my spare time at work helping out the engineering department updating their schematics and such. Well, new owners take over. They look at me and what do they see? Cute, 20 year old girl = RECEPTIONIST. Lets just say that i didn't keep my job for much longer after that fiasco... i TOLD them i'm not good at talking to people and answering phones... they didn't believe me...LOL.
nuff zed BRAVO!!

[blueback]

Its also caused me problems at work. I once had a job in an office. Mind you, i come from an electrical engineering background and was proficient in AutoCad. I spent my spare time at work helping out the engineering department updating their schematics and such. Well, new owners take over. They look at me and what do they see? Cute, 20 year old girl = RECEPTIONIST. Lets just say that i didn't keep my job for much longer after that fiasco... i TOLD them i'm not good at talking to people and answering phones... they didn't believe me...LOL.

How dare you challenge their stereotypes! What? Do you think that people walk around with their minds wide open all day long?

Did your engineer coworkers have a pool going for how long you would manage to stay a receptionist, lol?

[Solaris]

INTJs as a rule have been characterized as being cold, unfeeling pseudo-humans. Female INTJs, even more so because of the dissonance that WavesSootheMe points out, between the social norm and the INTJ (lack of) expression of emotion.

What most people fail to realize is that we have feelings too, deep feelings that we just don’t let everyone have access to. Many of you have stated that you are sensitive to hurts, just like any other person. It's just that you have learned, or know inherently, how to compartmentalize those hurts and "forge ahead" with life. The upside is that you can remain effective in the face of experiences that might cripple others. The downside is that too many end up having no release for those pent-up hurts and become dysfunctional at some level.

That's not only true for the female INTJ, the males have to overcome that as well.

I signed up for that class without knowing it. Unfortunately, I was unable to drop the class once I found it what it really was. :/

[rwyatt365]

I agree with this completely. It aggrivates me to no end when people see me standing in line alone somewhere and tell me to "smile." Apparantly, i'm supposed to walk around with a toothy grin on my face at all times... who knew? I just think to myself "Why? Is there something i am supposed to be smiling about right now? Give me a reason to, and i will."
I will admit that I have been guilty of this in times past. I appreciate beauty in the world around me (how un-INTJ is that!), and when I saw a nice-looking lady with a frown on her face I said, "smile".

I understand your point though, and have long ago changed what I say in situations like that. I now say, "You are a very attractive lady. I appreciate nice things, and I want to let you know that I appreciate you". If she smiles, good. If not, oh well.

[Rei]

I agree with this completely. It aggrivates me to no end when people see me standing in line alone somewhere and tell me to "smile." Apparantly, i'm supposed to walk around with a toothy grin on my face at all times... who knew? I just think to myself "Why? Is there something i am supposed to be smiling about right now? Give me a reason to, and i will."

Its also caused me problems at work. I once had a job in an office. Mind you, i come from an electrical engineering background and was proficient in AutoCad. I spent my spare time at work helping out the engineering department updating their schematics and such. Well, new owners take over. They look at me and what do they see? Cute, 20 year old girl = RECEPTIONIST. Lets just say that i didn't keep my job for much longer after that fiasco... i TOLD them i'm not good at talking to people and answering phones... they didn't believe me...LOL.

EXACTLY.
My mother constantly accuses me of looking calculating and unfriendly... even evil =/
I think smiling without a reason is a waste of energy on my face muscles when I could be using my ATPs to walk faster... away from the people. ;D

I worked at a medical lab with a bunch of political men once. When I first showed up they thought I must be sweet and entertaining, but not serious. They ended up finding me much, much different from what they expected. I wasn't political to begin with, but thought they had serious flaws in their ways of thinking, so I promptly did some background research and watched the news a bit and got right into the conversation. I got some respect out of that, considering I was the youngest one there (17 yo girl just out of high school at the time). My boss was sexist as hell though. I quit after that because he was being a jackass, asking me to do things like typing crap out for him, and looked all surprised when I handed it to him shortly after he assigned the task.

[blueback]

I think smiling without a reason is a waste of energy on my face muscles when I could be using my ATPs to walk faster... away from the people. ;D


If I'm remembering biology class correctly, ATP is what causes the little hooks in our muscles to detach and it's calcium that causes the little hooks to catch and pull. . .so if you only used ATP you would collapse into a mushy pile of logic. Hehe, I shouldn't think this early in the morning.

[rwyatt365]

If I'm remembering biology class correctly, ATP is what causes the little hooks in our muscles to detach and it's calcium that causes the little hooks to catch and pull. . .so if you only used ATP you would collapse into a mushy pile of logic. Hehe, I shouldn't think this early in the morning.
A protoplasmic, amorphous mass of quivering logic! How lovely! :stunned:

[blueback]

I don't think you'd even quiver. You'd probably just ooze your way towards the drain.

[The Rose]

... ATP is what causes the little hooks in our muscles to detach and it's calcium that causes the little hooks to catch and pull...Wow! That's incredible! :surprised: Isn't the human body amazing?

(It also explains how I can increase my muscle strength by increasing my calcium - right?)

[rwyatt365]

I don't think you'd even quiver. You'd probably just ooze your way towards the drain.
Oozing implies that the skin was somehow breached. I think quivering is still applicable.

[Rei]

If I'm remembering biology class correctly, ATP is what causes the little hooks in our muscles to detach and it's calcium that causes the little hooks to catch and pull. . .so if you only used ATP you would collapse into a mushy pile of logic. Hehe, I shouldn't think this early in the morning.

Yeah, count of me to forget the details of biological processes... especially when it comes to chemical biological processes...

[Bossy Mom]

My children think I am a little cold. I love them very much and would do anything for them, but I think it is more of a family problem than a "type" problem. My mother never kissed or embraced us after we reached puberty. It embarasses me to show so much affection for children who are older. I have been aware of the problem for a long time, but I don't know how to change it. I can hold, hug and kiss my miniature dachshund, though. He is an eternal baby -- so I can hug him.

[Rei]

My children think I am a little cold. I love them very much and would do anything for them, but I think it is more of a family problem than a "type" problem. My mother never kissed or embraced us after we reached puberty. It embarasses me to show so much affection for children who are older. I have been aware of the problem for a long time, but I don't know how to change it. I can hold, hug and kiss my miniature dachshund, though. He is an eternal baby -- so I can hug him.

It's a family problem, but don't you think that 'family problems' actually contribute to our personality type?

I can relate though. I've never shown much affection for family members. The last time I remember being affectionate I was probably 8 when I kissed my dad on the cheek.
I absolutely adore my dogs and probably show more affection toward them than I ever will to people :p

[The Rose]

I have heard the "experts" say that a child needs 8 to 10 meaningful touches every day in order to maintain good emotional health.

I don't do that, but I do make an effort to touch my children when we are near each other:
touch their shoulder as I walk by, hold their face when I kiss them goodbye, etc.
I have taught myself to be "affectionate" because I believe it is necessary for my children's well-being.

I also try to to stop what I am doing when they enter my room to talk to me (and I am on the computer). I have to remind myself to stop, to turn and face them, and give them my undivided attention. I know I appreciate it when someone does that for me.

[Bossy Mom]

It's a family problem, but don't you think that 'family problems' actually contribute to our personality type?

I can relate though. I've never shown much affection for family members. The last time I remember being affectionate I was probably 8 when I kissed my dad on the cheek.
I absolutely adore my dogs and probably show more affection toward them than I ever will to people :p

My husband used to say, "I wish you loved me half as much as you love those dogs!" People may have thought it was funny, but I knew it was sad and true.

[GOD]

Here's Jung on introverted feeling....

"Introverted feeling is governed by subjective factors, and the type is outwardly very different from the warm, friendly extravert, often giving an impression of coldness; but the feeling, in reality gathers intensity with its lack of expression, and one may truly say of this type that 'still waters run deep'. Whilst appearing reserved, they have usually much sympathy for and understanding of intimate friends, or anyone suffering in need. In a woman of this type feeling often flows secretly into her children; she is not demonstrative, but has all the same a passionate love that will become apparent if the child is seriously ill, or if she is separated from it in some way. Introverted feeling also expresses itself in religion, in poetry and music, and occasionally in fantastic self-sacrifice.
The introverted feeling type is inadaptable. He or she is disconcertingly genuine, and if ever forced to play a role, is likely to fall to pieces, for this reason being sometimes described as schizoid. But in intimate circles to which they are attached by strong emotional ties their value is well known, and they make constant and reliable friends."

Hence ends the loaded statement.... ;)

[Lucid]

The introverted feeling type is inadaptable. He or she is disconcertingly genuine, and if ever forced to play a role, is likely to fall to pieces, for this reason being sometimes described as schizoid. But in intimate circles to which they are attached by strong emotional ties their value is well known, and they make constant and reliable friends."

You're damn right! :p

[elsdfr]

Would INTJ females feel better if hugged when upset about something? Even if the hugger was the cause?

[ChilaK]

I think the tricky thing for me might be that although I'm nearly always caring about people on the inside, after being around people for extended periods of time (such as when visiting my fam) I run out of mental energy to put toward "words of encouragement" and/or lose interest in the small talk and get lost deep in my own thoughts about something completely different. I can see how this comes off as cold- it's not that I don't care about them anymore it's just that I seem to lose the ability to express that sometimes.
I would venture this is why some people have noted that they seem to find me in one of two states "off or on" and can get pretty confused as I go from one to another. Not saying it's good- it just is.

[INTJgal]

Would INTJ females feel better if hugged when upset about something? Even if the hugger was the cause?

If i'm upset, I find space alone. I don't want to be hugged/"aww"ed over if i'm on the brink of controlling my emotions. I want to be left alone.

If it was a death, or something, perhaps the circumstances would permit.


If someone was intimately close with me, then i can be find around them and cry on their shoulder. It's just highly unlikely that, despite how good most of my friends are, that I'd actually do that around them.

[ChilaK]

Would INTJ females feel better if hugged when upset about something? Even if the hugger was the cause?

Personally, I'd say I'm rather ambivolent. It wouldn't bother me if it made the other person feel better, but it would be unlikely to help me either.

And of course, it kind of depends on what the "cause" was.

[WavesSootheMe]

If i'm upset, I find space alone. I don't want to be hugged/"aww"ed over if i'm on the brink of controlling my emotions. I want to be left alone.

If it was a death, or something, perhaps the circumstances would permit.


If someone was intimately close with me, then i can be find around them and cry on their shoulder. It's just highly unlikely that, despite how good most of my friends are, that I'd actually do that around them.

Agreed. Even when dealing with the death of my friends in high school, I spent a lot of time on my own. It worried my family, because they weren't sure that I was really dealing with what had happened, but I needed them to back off. I had to go through what I was feeling and sort through my own head. Anything anyone else did or said before that was just noise. When I was ready to talk and begin the process of moving on, I came to them.

If someone close to me causes me to be upset and hugs me as part of a genuine apology that I've accepted, I do appreciate it and it does feel good as a total package. However, it's not the hug that solves the problem.

[Rei]

Would INTJ females feel better if hugged when upset about something? Even if the hugger was the cause?

The hug does nothing.
The solving of the problem that caused the discontent is what fixes me.

Like INTJgal, I don't think I've cried about anything (exception of watching movies and such) in front of even my best friend. She'd know everything about me, she'd know how horrible I feel, but I would try my best never to cry in front of anyone. I don't want sympathy, to the extent of not simply not asking but to the extent that I reject sympathy. Crying in front of a friend would not only ask for sympathy, but cause sympathy even if it is not asked.

[The Many]

The hug does nothing.
The solving of the problem that caused the discontent is what fixes me.

I think I love you... I mean, rationally respect your independently logical cognitive functions.

[Rei]

I think I love you... I mean, rationally respect your independently logical cognitive functions.

I rationally respect you for being able to rationally respect my independently logical cognitive function. :thumbsup:

[rwyatt365]

All of this rational respecting is...just...overwhelming :cry:

[thegnat]

All of this rational respecting is...just...overwhelming :cry:

I rationally respect your opinion.

[rwyatt365]

And who said INTJ women are cold?! :lovestruck::flirt: :embarassed:

[Rei]

And who said INTJ women are cold?! :lovestruck::flirt: :embarassed:

I rationally respect your rationally respectful question.
Who indeed, said INTJ women are cold? :thinking:

[The Rose]

I actually used to be cold, mean, heartless and cruel.

[Lucid]

I actually used to be cold, mean, heartless and cruel.

Really? I found that behaving that way was counter productive to my happiness and my ability to function well in society.
You certainly don't seem that way now. :)

[The Rose]

Really? I found that behaving that way was counter productive to my happiness and my ability to function well in society.
You certainly don't seem that way now. :)Well, precisely.
It didn't work for me either. ;)
Thankfully, I'm not that way anymore, but it's been a long row to hoe.

[Amaranth]

I used to be cold and out of touch with my own emotions, too, but like other INTJs, I realized it was counter-productive.

As far as being a mother is concerned, I wouldn't become one unless I wanted to be one, as it's been mentioned in this discussion earlier. That alone makes a hell of a difference, because many mothers I see today are completely frazzled; they had children because it's just what you do, or because it's what happened *to* them. There are many things I want to accomplish before I start a family. My own mother never had a chance to be an individual before becoming a mother, and I grew up sensing that and feeling like a burden. I'd never want to impose that on a child because I know how it feels.

Another factor that comes into play is...who are you starting a family with? I feel much more comfortable having kids with someone who balances out the less graceful aspects of my INTJ preferences--i.e. someone who reminds me that it's nice to be affectionate and playful on a daily basis.

[Lucid]

I used to be cold and out of touch with my own emotions, too, but like other INTJs, I realized it was counter-productive.

As far as being a mother is concerned, I wouldn't become one unless I wanted to be one, as it's been mentioned in this discussion earlier. That alone makes a hell of a difference, because many mothers I see today are completely frazzled; they had children because it's just what you do, or because it's what happened *to* them. There are many things I want to accomplish before I start a family. My own mother never had a chance to be an individual before becoming a mother, and I grew up sensing that and feeling like a burden. I'd never want to impose that on a child because I know how it feels.

Another factor that comes into play is...who are you starting a family with? I feel much more comfortable having kids with someone who balances out the less graceful aspects of my INTJ preferences--i.e. someone who reminds me that it's nice to be affectionate and playful on a daily basis.

well said!

[The Rose]

I used to be cold and out of touch with my own emotions, too, but like other INTJs, I realized it was counter-productive.

As far as being a mother is concerned, I wouldn't become one unless I wanted to be one, as it's been mentioned in this discussion earlier. That alone makes a hell of a difference, because many mothers I see today are completely frazzled; they had children because it's just what you do, or because it's what happened *to* them. There are many things I want to accomplish before I start a family. My own mother never had a chance to be an individual before becoming a mother, and I grew up sensing that and feeling like a burden. I'd never want to impose that on a child because I know how it feels.

Another factor that comes into play is...who are you starting a family with? I feel much more comfortable having kids with someone who balances out the less graceful aspects of my INTJ preferences--i.e. someone who reminds me that it's nice to be affectionate and playful on a daily basis.I always felt like a burden, too.
As a matter of fact it is a feeling I frequently struggle with in different areas.

I am always in a natural state of not feeling welcome.
I need to be invited. I don't usually impose myself on others.

[Rei]

I used to be very bitter is all.
I also used to choose to ignore what little feelings I had.

I learned a few years ago that that was not healthy =/
But I must say not ignoring them is very bothersome. I wonder whether I was better off unhealthy compared to my inefficiency now.

So yeah, here's to being emo from time to time... :thinking:

[More Tea]

I used to be cold and out of touch with my own emotions, too, but like other INTJs, I realized it was counter-productive.

As far as being a mother is concerned, I wouldn't become one unless I wanted to be one, as it's been mentioned in this discussion earlier. That alone makes a hell of a difference, because many mothers I see today are completely frazzled; they had children because it's just what you do, or because it's what happened *to* them.


Excellent points.

Hm, I was pretty cold for most of my childhood, and wanted to be a Vulcan, not human. Part of that was growing up with a severely-schizophrenic parent. I literally associated any display of strong emotion with mental illness.

Eventually, though, I had to address having feelings, and over time learned to work with them. I also tried to teach myself basic social skills--like being polite--as I got older, with lots of hits and misses in my early and mid twenties.

I am pretty warm with my friends and usually gracious to strangers, unless I am feeling burned out or the other person starts off rude him/herself. I prefer retreat to conflict in most cases.

As for children, I never had the same drive towards that as other women. The cons very much outweigh the potential pluses for me, and I have been decidedly childfree for many, many years.

[The Many]

I used to be very bitter is all.
I also used to choose to ignore what little feelings I had.

I learned a few years ago that that was not healthy =/
But I must say not ignoring them is very bothersome. I wonder whether I was better off unhealthy compared to my inefficiency now.

So yeah, here's to being emo from time to time... :thinking:

I recommend you just do the rationally respectable thing and analyze them and go through them instead of burying yourself in them. Being depressed is beyond horrible, even though I'm usually more productive and efficient the worse I feel... but still, when your mind is as powerful as the INTJ one usually is, it is at least quite to think ones ways out of feelings.

[Wildflower]

If i'm upset, I find space alone. I don't want to be hugged/"aww"ed over if i'm on the brink of controlling my emotions. I want to be left alone.

If it was a death, or something, perhaps the circumstances would permit.


If someone was intimately close with me, then i can be find around them and cry on their shoulder. It's just highly unlikely that, despite how good most of my friends are, that I'd actually do that around them.

This is true for me. From the time I was out of toddlerhood until now only two human beings have seen me cry. My mother and my husband.

If I am very upset, I want to be left alone and need to be alone, except for my husband I would find any other person trying to stop me as being incredibly invasive.

[rwyatt365]

So, is it that you (any INTJ woman) actually have emotional responses that are low-level, or do you not have emotional responses at all?

Many people think that the absence of emotion response defines "cold", but that a low level of response just needs training, or nurturing to become fully developed (i.e. "normal"). My guess is that emotional responses are indeed present, but buried or "handled" in some manner such that observers might think, "Sheesh, she doesn't have any feelings at all!", when the fact is that you really do.

For myself, as a male, I know that I have very deep and profound feelings/emotions. It's just that I don't allow them to interfere with "daily operations". If someone says something that offends me to my core they may never know it because I will continue to function as if it had never happened. I might want to stab them through the heart but at the least, I will never present them with the opportunity to offend me again (I won't say what the worst might be ;) ).

[Amaranth]

So, is it that you (any INTJ woman) actually have emotional responses that are low-level, or do you not have emotional responses at all?

I can't speak for other INTJ women, but I know that I've always been emotional, especially when it comes to any hint of rejection/exclusion from those I admire or care for. I also know that for a long time I didn't acknowledge my feelings, even though I acted on them by trying to gain as much approval as I could. I did eventually make a conscious effort to get in touch with my emotions, and it was like a floodgate - love, anger, and the whole nine yards had been swirling around in there all along.

That being said, no one would ever be able to guess that I'm as passionate and emotional as I really am. The only people who know are my mother and my boyfriend. That leads a lot of people to believe I'm cold and unfeeling, and sometimes people assume that my feelings don't need to be considered because I'm so emotionally self-sufficient. It bothers me when someone close to me forgets that I feel; it doesn't bother with others, because I don't want them focusing on my emotions anyway--sympathy and pity make me feel uncomfortable and annoyed. I knew one guy who was exorbitantly sympathetic, and he bothered the hell out of me. It seemed his self-worth was based on soothing others' pain and weakness, and it was like he was purposely searching/waiting for my moment of weakness so that he could console. I don't like people who focus on others' weakness or pain; I prefer people who focus on strengths and potential.

[The Rose]

So, is it that you (any INTJ woman) actually have emotional responses that are low-level, or do you not have emotional responses at all?

Many people think that the absence of emotion response defines "cold", but that a low level of response just needs training, or nurturing to become fully developed (i.e. "normal"). My guess is that emotional responses are indeed present, but buried or "handled" in some manner such that observers might think, "Sheesh, she doesn't have any feelings at all!", when the fact is that you really do.

For myself, as a male, I know that I have very deep and profound feelings/emotions. It's just that I don't allow them to interfere with "daily operations". If someone says something that offends me to my core they may never know it because I will continue to function as if it had never happened. I might want to stab them through the heart but at the least, I will never present them with the opportunity to offend me again (I won't say what the worst might be ;) ).I have emotional responses, but I hold them in.
Not on purpose, just subconsciously, I guess.

For instance, once I was selling jewelry at a gal's house. She had invited all her working buddies over. There were about 10 women. Well it was only the 2nd or 3rd show I had done. I was very nervous. A couple of the gals switched their name tags to try to trick me. They did other stuff to tease me. I remained calm, cool and collected the whole time, as if nothing was bothering me.
As soon as I pulled out of the driveway, I started to cry.
I bawled my head off for 20 minutes.

The next week I had another jewelry show. I thought I was fine, but as I was driving to another gal's house, my stomach began to harden solid like a rock - the only time this has ever happened. I had to pull over.

Apparently, I do the "crying when I pull out of the driveway" thing a lot.

[fripping]

cold? no. just sort of emotionally oblivious towards others with a strong tendency to suppress their own personal histrionics until that special moment with a loved one.

suddenly crying for no apparent reason in front of your boyfriend is always a great way to let him know that you're happy being around him and that he's doing a great job.

[hopscotch]

I don't think I'm cold but I'm sure a good percentage of my acquaintance does. My natural countenance is impassive; rarely can anyone deduce what I think, let alone what I feel. I can also be sarcastic, which is frequently misunderstood.

I think part of the problem is that I'm not interested in stereotypical female activities like shopping, gossiping, watching romantic comedies and talking about emotions. I get annoyed when women overindulge in society's deluded concept of femininity, as I despise stereotypes. The ideal female that so many people seem to envision is little more than a caricature to me. If I have a problem, I figure out how to fix it myself because I don't want to expose any weakness or feel incompetent or out of control. This has caused occasional issues with my boyfriend, who has said that he wants me to admit vulnerabilities and let him take care of me (which I thought was odd coming from an ENTJ, but it's probably about having a measure of power over me. No thanks.) I'm strong-minded and even stronger willed. I'm noticeably detached from almost all situations, especially when I'm with a large group that insists on being inane.

Emotions are private, none-of-anybody's-business sorts of things. I keep them to myself and deal with them when they've gotten to the point where they can no longer be ignored and I can find a quiet place to reflect. I don't cry easily but frustration and anxiety can sometimes get to me. Certain situations, such as animal abuse, touch me to a disturbing degree, eliciting more feeling than I think I have. It can get overwhelming, but then I remind myself that I'm human and therefore sentient. There's no shame in feeling emotion but there's also no need to make a spectacle of oneself.

The feelings of being burdensome and uninvited mentioned by previous posters are two I can easily relate to. I know I'm not much fun and I always get the impression I'm a buzzkill. I often turn down invitations because I know I won't be able to have fun (damn reserve!) and don't particularly enjoy being the reason others don't have a good time. I'm probably not as bad as I think, otherwise I wouldn't receive invitations at all, but that nagging concern won't let go.

[Wildflower]

.

For instance, once I was selling jewelry at a gal's house. She had invited all her working buddies over. There were about 10 women. Well it was only the 2nd or 3rd show I had done. I was very nervous. A couple of the gals switched their name tags to try to trick me. They did other stuff to tease me. I remained calm, cool and collected the whole time, as if nothing was bothering me.
As soon as I pulled out of the driveway, I started to cry.
I bawled my head off for 20 minutes.



That's awful. Women can be so senselessly mean to each other. So much for the gentler, fairer sex. :thumbsdown:

I am not INTJ, but as INFP (Fi) I am most likely to cry over frustration over imperfections in myself relating to my interactions with the world. When I cannot overcome my own weaknesses (or feel that I cannot ) and I am hurt or hurt others as a result... or I fail in personal interactions and my inability to be able to come up with the needed way to communicate to fit a situation and make someone understand me and/or not being able to put emotions and logic at peace with each other in a important decision, esepcially when faitgued.

Most of the time true grief burns in my eyes and throat and eats at me slowly and silently and it a very inward thing without the relief of tears. I have never understood why. I won't be able to eat much or sleep but I won't have the solace of tears either, just the gnawing pain.

I hope no one minds me replying in this thread. The topic is very interesting to me as my ESFJ mother always called me cold and many times people who do not know me well think I am cold as well.

[Lucid]

So, is it that you (any INTJ woman) actually have emotional responses that are low-level, or do you not have emotional responses at all?

I tend to have emotional responses at a very high level. But I don't often show them, act on them, or make decisions based on them.

Anecdotal example: I have twice had people I cared about deeply go through legal troubles. I'm not sure how many people are familiar with this, but it's incredibly unpleasant. The prosecution will say all kind of horrible things (often untrue things) about the people in question. In my cases, thankfully, both were innocent, but it was still extremely upsetting. In the first case I could not even go to the court proceedings for fear that someone would say something or shoot a nasty look and I'd lose all control and get up and throttle them. Or at least yell a lot. The second instance, I was able to go, but had to stare straight ahead and tune out most of the testimony of the opposing side to be able to deal with it. These were higher stress situations than normal, so this level of emotion is extremely rare for me (thankfully), but I do want to make the point that I (and many INTJs) have very strong emotional reactions. The difference seems to be that we just don't act on them.

I am also one of the only people I know who prefers to be broken up with over email. And this situation more suitable describes my way of dealing with emotions. Email gives me the opportunity to assess the situation, sort through my feelings, come up with a plan of action and then respond rationally. Partially because of this, I'm still very good friends with most of my ex's. I still cry over the breakup (if I cared about the relationship) and of course I walk around feeling sad and lonely for awhile. But when I have the "break up conversation" and when talking to friends and relatives about a break up I don't usually cry and never scream or throw things of make accusations or any of that. I feel it only complicates an already unpleasant situation which can be handled with much more class and dignity.

[The Rose]

That's awful. Women can be so senselessly mean to each other. So much for the gentler, fairer sex. :thumbsdown:Thanks.

I am not INTJ, but as INFP (Fi) I am most likely to cry over frustration over imperfections in myself relating to my interactions with the world. When I cannot overcome my own weaknesses (or feel that I cannot ) and I am hurt or hurt others as a result... or I fail in personal interactions and my inability to be able to come up with the needed way to communicate to fit a situation and make someone understand me and/or not being able to put emotions and logic at peace with each other in a important decision, especially when fatigued.

Most of the time true grief burns in my eyes and throat and eats at me slowly and silently and it a very inward thing without the relief of tears. I have never understood why. I won't be able to eat much or sleep but I won't have the solace of tears either, just the gnawing pain.

I hope no one minds me replying in this thread. The topic is very interesting to me as my ESFJ mother always called me cold and many times people who do not know me well think I am cold as well.I don't mind.
I don't think ESxJs are very good judges of invisible attributes.

[Diana]

Rose, so sorry to hear about that hurt you experienced. Its always sad to see how words and deeds can literally sear someone. And the physical invisibility of it all (the wound) usually only compounds the pain...
--
Well, I was pretty emotionally sensitive to things when I was younger -or so I've been told- but as I've grown older, I've grown more toward the mathematical/ black-and-white/ rational thoughts side of things, eventually realizing my true introvertedness. I suppose I'm capable of expressing emotions to others when I choose, but usually they just remain a private thing between God and myself. Probably one of the best habits I've gotten into is journaling; somehow writing out my feelings makes them more tangible, objective, and rational to me. I can see them clearly on paper, and have a record of them to keep.

So no, I doubt that anyone would find me 'cold' these days, as I'm generally cordial and empathetic with others, but.. (I just realized this)..I think many times I do not share a lot of myself, or my deeper feelings with people. Like someone earlier said, "Still waters run deep." It seems like the typical girls my age (early twenties) are always advertising a running commentary of their emotions. (I deem it "emotional promiscuity", but perhaps thats too extreme.) They're up, they're down...they seem to change with the wind. I guess it feels cheap to me.

I think that's why I enjoy dancing so much -- for at times, there are those deep feelings that simply cannot be expressed in words no matter how expansive the vocabulary. I can basically let my body do the speaking for me in a whole other language of movement. I can't say I'm never inhibited, but for the most part, it seems to be when I'm truly most vulnerable.

Then I go and like...do some math problems or something :)

[Rei]

I recommend you just do the rationally respectable thing and analyze them and go through them instead of burying yourself in them. Being depressed is beyond horrible, even though I'm usually more productive and efficient the worse I feel... but still, when your mind is as powerful as the INTJ one usually is, it is at least quite to think ones ways out of feelings.

Well a problem I come by is that it makes no sense. Analyzing it is frustrating and generally fruitless. I do still try very hard to, which ends up equating to greater frustration. :blank:

[Allie]

This is hard to describe for me because it's so contradictory.

I feel very strongly and deeply about things/people that matter to me, but don't show it much.

On the outside, I am reserved and unaffected. It takes a lot for me to show my emotions, because I don't like to feel/look vulnerable or exposed.

I am usually passionate and animated with family and close friends only. I let down my guards only with my hubby (took a long time) and children. I am affectionate with them. With my children, I am naturally loving/nurturing and very protective, but it takes effort on my part to consciously commiserate with them on little things like: one of their friends don't think that they're pretty enough, or they were not invited to one of the kid's birthday party that one time....

When it comes to their academic and other competitive achievements, I am loud and have no problem showing how proud and happy I am for them. Hugs and kisses all around!

Simple, logical things don't bother me. For example: someone being rude (their problem not mine), criticize/bad mouth me (and their opinions matter to me because....?).

When women cry over small things, it puzzles me. I am compassionate and would offer tissues and pat/rubbed their shoulders, knowing that they're hurting, and understand that it's important to them. I could be sitting there with a group of women, and they would all cry, but I would be dry-eyed. Meh.

When most people are angry, they usually shout or get animated or physical or verbal. When I am angry, I become very very cold. The angrier I get, the calmer, colder, more rational and logical I become, which makes the other party livid! It wasn't intentional or done to provoke anyone. It was just a natural reaction. This is rare when it happens though. I could count on one hand how many times this happened.

So, not sure I am cold. I think it's fair to say that, whatever a man's natural tendencies towards emotions and how they act/react, then that's how I am. ETo view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. on second thought, that doesn't sound....good. But, I guess that comes the closest.

[mielikki]

x2

X3

I honestly don't think I am cold. Other people tend to think I am cold, because they don't see my behaviour as "female". I'd rather not be defined that way by my gender, but there you go.

My man is a ESFJ, so it makes for some lively times.

[thegnat]

Others actually tend not to think I'm cold. I usually have a reputation of being nice. Which really, is created by me never being *mean* to people, and usually polite. I'm never uber nice. I can appear outwardly quite nice depending on the person of course. However if people heard my thoughts they'd probably think I was cold. My behavior isn't too feminine, but I can get along with just about anyone. I'm extraordinarily good at masking my true feelings about someone. For example, if I lose respect for an acquaintance of mine due to an action of theirs, I won't snap back and I'll stay respectful unless I just want to irritate them to make a point or if I think they don't really respect me. Irritating them that once is fine though. However, I won't ever intentionally anger someone unless they've lost *all* my respect or at least - I can't continue being polite to them. It takes *A LOT* to get me angry, or irritate me outwardly. Inwardly I'll probably be like, "You stupid idiot, how could you do that?" but I won't show it.

Do *I* consider myself cold? No. Maybe reserved would be appropriate for me IMHO.

[Thistle]

Those who don't know me would consider me to be cold. Those that I work with consider me to be a diplomat (I = think-speak-think coming through, I think). The few I do trust and consider to be friends describe me as being very loyal and supportive to them (therefore, hardly cold?). I certainly don't possess many 'typical' 'feminine' traits (T rather than F) and may appear cold in comparison to the social/cultural norm?

[WavesSootheMe]

Others actually tend not to think I'm cold. I usually have a reputation of being nice. Which really, is created by me never being *mean* to people, and usually polite. I'm never uber nice. I can appear outwardly quite nice depending on the person of course. However if people heard my thoughts they'd probably think I was cold. My behavior isn't too feminine, but I can get along with just about anyone. I'm extraordinarily good at masking my true feelings about someone. For example, if I lose respect for an acquaintance of mine due to an action of theirs, I won't snap back and I'll stay respectful unless I just want to irritate them to make a point or if I think they don't really respect me. Irritating them that once is fine though. However, I won't ever intentionally anger someone unless they've lost *all* my respect or at least - I can't continue being polite to them. It takes *A LOT* to get me angry, or irritate me outwardly. Inwardly I'll probably be like, "You stupid idiot, how could you do that?" but I won't show it.

Do *I* consider myself cold? No. Maybe reserved would be appropriate for me IMHO.

Ditto.

1) In classes and other such environments, I am generally referred to as "that nice, quiet girl," and I agree that this is because many of my thoughts remain internal and my general disposition to all people outside of my inner circle is polite indifference. Most people just don't catch on to the indifference part and interpret the politeness as kindness.

2) My indifference changes when I have invested time in someone and have come to enjoy that person in my life. At this point, being generally warm and kind and helpful make sense to me. Plus I feel that being discriminate with my emotions and judgments and sympathies adds more value to them.

3) It can also change when I have come to lose ALL respect for someone, and I agree that all is a key word here, as it takes a lot for this to happen when you're initially indifferent in the first place.

4) Reserved is an excellent adjective for someone that doesn't overtly express every emotion and thought that they feel and think, and doesn't take the ones that they do express to an extreme.

5) I think that perhaps many of us respond to the expression of emotions by others much in the same way that we respond to our own, and thus we're perceived as cold by those that are expecting a reaction more similar to their own or to that of a female stereotype. Much in the same way, we may come to perceive them as unnecessarily dramatic. It's the comparison that creates the perception. It doesn't make it an overall reality.

Thankfully, in my experience, many out there aren't the extreme of a female stereotype once you get to know them as an individual, and as long as you're not complete opposites, will come to appreciate the T that you can add to their F (and vice versa).

[Solaris]

This is hard to describe for me because it's so contradictory.

I feel very strongly and deeply about things/people that matter to me, but don't show it much.

On the outside, I am reserved and unaffected. It takes a lot for me to show my emotions, because I don't like to feel/look vulnerable or exposed.

I am usually passionate and animated with family and close friends only. I let down my guards only with my hubby (took a long time) and children. I am affectionate with them. With my children, I am naturally loving/nurturing and very protective, but it takes effort on my part to consciously commiserate with them on little things like: one of their friends don't think that they're pretty enough, or they were not invited to one of the kid's birthday party that one time....

When it comes to their academic and other competitive achievements, I am loud and have no problem showing how proud and happy I am for them. Hugs and kisses all around!

Simple, logical things don't bother me. For example: someone being rude (their problem not mine), criticize/bad mouth me (and their opinions matter to me because....?).

When women cry over small things, it puzzles me. I am compassionate and would offer tissues and pat/rubbed their shoulders, knowing that they're hurting, and understand that it's important to them. I could be sitting there with a group of women, and they would all cry, but I would be dry-eyed. Meh.

When most people are angry, they usually shout or get animated or physical or verbal. When I am angry, I become very very cold. The angrier I get, the calmer, colder, more rational and logical I become, which makes the other party livid! It wasn't intentional or done to provoke anyone. It was just a natural reaction. This is rare when it happens though. I could count on one hand how many times this happened.

So, not sure I am cold. I think it's fair to say that, whatever a man's natural tendencies towards emotions and how they act/react, then that's how I am. ETo view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. on second thought, that doesn't sound....good. But, I guess that comes the closest.

Others actually tend not to think I'm cold. I usually have a reputation of being nice. Which really, is created by me never being *mean* to people, and usually polite. I'm never uber nice. I can appear outwardly quite nice depending on the person of course. However if people heard my thoughts they'd probably think I was cold. My behavior isn't too feminine, but I can get along with just about anyone. I'm extraordinarily good at masking my true feelings about someone. For example, if I lose respect for an acquaintance of mine due to an action of theirs, I won't snap back and I'll stay respectful unless I just want to irritate them to make a point or if I think they don't really respect me. Irritating them that once is fine though. However, I won't ever intentionally anger someone unless they've lost *all* my respect or at least - I can't continue being polite to them. It takes *A LOT* to get me angry, or irritate me outwardly. Inwardly I'll probably be like, "You stupid idiot, how could you do that?" but I won't show it.

Do *I* consider myself cold? No. Maybe reserved would be appropriate for me IMHO.

Those who don't know me would consider me to be cold. Those that I work with consider me to be a diplomat (I = think-speak-think coming through, I think). The few I do trust and consider to be friends describe me as being very loyal and supportive to them (therefore, hardly cold?). I certainly don't possess many 'typical' 'feminine' traits (T rather than F) and may appear cold in comparison to the social/cultural norm?

Ditto.

1) In classes and other such environments, I am generally referred to as "that nice, quiet girl," and I agree that this is because many of my thoughts remain internal and my general disposition to all people outside of my inner circle is polite indifference. Most people just don't catch on to the indifference part and interpret the politeness as kindness.

2) My indifference changes when I have invested time in someone and have come to enjoy that person in my life. At this point, being generally warm and kind and helpful make sense to me. Plus I feel that being discriminate with my emotions and judgments and sympathies adds more value to them.

3) It can also change when I have come to lose ALL respect for someone, and I agree that all is a key word here, as it takes a lot for this to happen when you're initially indifferent in the first place.

4) Reserved is an excellent adjective for someone that doesn't overtly express every emotion and thought that they feel and think, and doesn't take the ones that they do express to an extreme.

5) I think that perhaps many of us respond to the expression of emotions by others much in the same way that we respond to our own, and thus we're perceived as cold by those that are expecting a reaction more similar to their own or to that of a female stereotype. Much in the same way, we may come to perceive them as unnecessarily dramatic. It's the comparison that creates the perception. It doesn't make it an overall reality.

Thankfully, in my experience, many out there aren't the extreme of a female stereotype once you get to know them as an individual, and as long as you're not complete opposites, will come to appreciate the T that you can add to their F (and vice versa).


Since you all said what I was thinking/experiencing already, I figured this was easier.

The difference, for me, is that I will bring up my point of view to somebody before most of you will. I used to be afraid of that, and it was misinterpreted as shyness. It wasn't shyness at all, just an inability to adequately express my emotion at a particular time.

I learned that a friend of mine also mistook my ability to talk to anyone, find out what interests them, and being talking in-depth about it for being caring and wanting to make them comfortable. I laughed, and told her it may come across that way, but I really just want to know what they know. So there, you can substitute E and Te for Fe sometimes and look like you aren't cold!

[mrswentworth]

Cold to people I dislike or feel uninteresting or shallow.

[robin.]

I would not characterize myself as "cold," per se, although I might not be as nurturing as others in the "traditional" sense of the word. I definitely go out of my way to make others' day better, but I only do this for a few people. (For example, I'm on my university's debate team and I really like everyone there. I now bring food/drinks/blankets/other necessities to the tournaments and am known as the Team Mom. I like this a lot, but this isn't how I normally am.)

Another example: I greatly dislike most children, but when I meet a really great kid who is intelligent and respectful, I turn to putty. But again, I rarely react this way to kids and it is a definite exception.

In most cases, I don't think I am cold, just not particularly warm. Although, I am trying to change that because I think that I should be more receptive to new relationships. Just because I don't care to have very many close friends doesn't mean I might not like it in the future. I don't want to get locked into a certain personality type just because that's how I've always been, and then realize I missed out later. I just think that's a pretty silly and ineffective way to live my life.

I will only be cold to someone if I have lost a great amount of respect for them or if they have done something/consistently do something that makes me feel uncomfortable (i.e, a particularly dense--and rude--guy hitting on me won't get too much kindness, although I do try to be civil).

[danalaina]

Do INTJ women consider themselves cold?
no. i'm a very warm and loving person in my relationships. and because of my instinct, i can generally choose and cultivate good ones fairly quickly. they just are never many in number. even if i wanted a wide circle, i don't have the attention span for it.

Are INTJ women outcasts??
since we tend toward more traditionally male thinking, it is a little tricky sometimes where relationships are concerned, especially when sex is involved. i can't answer for the other INTJ wimmins, but my attitude toward sex has been labeled cavalier. sometimes that's been a problem.

Would they make good mothers?
i think so, yes. though overcoming the tendency not to praise often would probably be tough. that's something i know i struggle with. i'm scrupulous about giving credit where it's due, but i'm not good doling out praise.

Would they want to have children?
personally, i've always been on the fence about this. my husband and i decided to let nature settle it. if it happens, great. if not, we won't die.

[Seven]

Do I consider myself cold? No, I don't think so but I do consider myself different from the typical female. I rarely, if ever, join the other women in the office to discuss latest fashion trends, body image, beauty secrets, the latest in reality shows and gossip. I am always the last person to notice someones new hairdo, outfit, accessory, etc. and provide some sort of compliment. I communicate very directly and personal feelings do not play a factor when I make workplace decisions for which I have been told "you have ice in your veins". So do I come across to others as cold? Most probably.

[banzai]

So let's say, hypothetically speaking, one were looking for a woman of the INTJ persuasion...

The loud and more talkative females get their fair share of attention, meaning INTJ women would be more difficult to spot--what are the telltale signs one could look for?

[Blendy]

I used to be a very cold, angry person in my teens and early twenties. A decade or so later, I've become a lot more comfortable expressing warmth and emotion, and consider myself to be an all around much happier and more pleasant person. Most people would describe me as "friendly" and "warm", though this only came about through YEARS of conscious effort and cultivation of these qualities on my part. When I'm feeling stressed, my "coldness" tends to come out more.

[robin.]

So let's say, hypothetically speaking, one were looking for a woman of the INTJ persuasion...

The loud and more talkative females get their fair share of attention, meaning INTJ women would be more difficult to spot--what are the telltale signs one could look for?
I don't think I'm a very extreme example of an INTJ, but take this for what it's worth:

If I am with my friends, I can be pretty E and very, very goofy. The more new people, the more I I get. If I don't know anyone there (well, I actually wouldn't even be there in the first place, probably, but say I only knew an acquaintance), then I would be very quiet, but also very receptive to conversation if someone came over to talk to me.

If you do talk to me, know that although I am receptive, I am a terrible conversationalist and will often pronounce words incorrectly because of nerves. (This goes double if this is over the phone.) I'm really bad at small talk and will probably ask you about school or work, whichever is applicable.

If there are drinks/snacks available, I'll definitely be holding some, regardless of how hungry I am. They're like my safety blanket--if I'm eating something, no one can call me shy for not talking!

I'm usually a literal wallflower, and am probably standing in a hallway or sitting on a couch not in the center of the room.

But, if I'm involved in a game, more of the E side will begin to show.

In terms of where to find me: I can safely say I will NOT be at a bar or a club. If I were to go to a party, it would probably be a party held by a club or some other organization I was involved in.

Oh, and if a baby is in the vicinity, the one with the disgusted look on her face is me. (Unless the said baby is behaving EXCEPTIONALLY well or doing something clever and generally un-baby like.

Was that the kind of answer you were looking for?

Edit: I used to be a very cold, angry person in my teens and early twenties. A decade or so later, I've become a lot more comfortable expressing warmth and emotion, and consider myself to be an all around much happier and more pleasant person. Most people would describe me as "friendly" and "warm", though this only came about through YEARS of conscious effort and cultivation of these qualities on my part. When I'm feeling stressed, my "coldness" tends to come out more.I agree with this last part, although it hasn't taken me quite as long (perhaps because I became aware of it much younger?). I've started to open up, I think, but it definitely takes work and I most certainly have to recharge after each "session."

[WavesSootheMe]

So let's say, hypothetically speaking, one were looking for a woman of the INTJ persuasion...

The loud and more talkative females get their fair share of attention, meaning INTJ women would be more difficult to spot--what are the telltale signs one could look for?

So all of our explanations of why we're perceived as cold and the reality of it have really piqued your interest, huh? ;)

There's a thread on that exact topic here: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Maybe it will help or you can ask for further details there.

[Lucid]

So let's say, hypothetically speaking, one were looking for a woman of the INTJ persuasion...

The loud and more talkative females get their fair share of attention, meaning INTJ women would be more difficult to spot--what are the telltale signs one could look for?

We're the ones talking about world domination and cracking sarcastic and somewhat disturbing jokes.

[Rei]

We're the ones talking about world domination and cracking sarcastic and somewhat disturbing jokes.

Definitely.
When I'm in a group of people, pretty much the only things I say are sarcastic jokes.

[WavesSootheMe]

Definitely.
When I'm in a group of people, pretty much the only things I say are sarcastic jokes.

If I'm in a group of people that I don't know too well and they're talking about something superficial or that I don't really care about, I usually just sit there, keep my thoughts to myself, and laugh (they say giggle) when appropriate. This coupled with hair that gets mistaken for blond and they end up thinking that I'm a complete ditz. They tell me this later, if they get to know me better and find out that I'm not. I've also been mistaken for cold bitch, because my greetings for new people are not so enthusiastic waves from afar or a simple handshake. I guess if you don't show excitement for someone you don't even know, you're a cold bitch? Eh, oh well, this has also been told to me after they get to know me and find out that it's not true at all. Although, my nickname in my sorority was "the nice bitch," but hey at least cold isn't in there.

[Rei]

If I'm in a group of people that I don't know too well and they're talking about something superficial or that I don't really care about, I usually just sit there, keep my thoughts to myself, and laugh (they say giggle) when appropriate. This coupled with hair that gets mistaken for blond and they end up thinking that I'm a complete ditz. They tell me this later, if they get to know me better and find out that I'm not. I've also been mistaken for cold bitch, because my greetings for new people are not so enthusiastic waves from afar or a simple handshake. I guess if you don't show excitement for someone you don't even know, you're a cold bitch? Eh, oh well, this has also been told to me after they get to know me and find out that it's not true at all. Although, my nickname in my sorority was "the nice bitch," but hey at least cold isn't in there.

First situation... I usually just leave or stare off into the distance and have no clue what they're talking about anymore. Unless there was a reason I was there (like waiting for someone/to go somewhere or something etc etc) I'd probably just leave with "I need to get coffee" as an excuse.
I've been known to be a ditz when I'm high on adrenaline. I can usually force an enthusiastic greeting when I know the person I'm greeting really appreciates enthusiastic greetings, but otherwise it's a simple nod or smile depending on the person's gender.

I've been told by people who get to know me better that they thought I was one of those snobby popular people/teacher's pet. Apparently, a lot of people at school knowing of me (probably due to my reputation of being blunt sometimes esp in class debates) translates to me being popular. Me laughing at the teacher (not his/her stupid jokes) translates to me being a teacher's pet. :thinking:


You were in a sorority :blank:

[Seven]

So let's say, hypothetically speaking, one were looking for a woman of the INTJ persuasion...

The loud and more talkative females get their fair share of attention, meaning INTJ women would be more difficult to spot--what are the telltale signs one could look for?

If I'm hanging out with a group of my INTJ & INFJ girlfriends (I'm fortunate enough to know several), our conversations are more often than not, loud, animated and outrageously hilarious...so we blend in with the crowd, albeit our topic of conversation would probably be far from the norm.

If I am required to put in face time at business functions, I would be the person going through the motions of polite niceties expected of me - smiling, shaking hands, asking purposeless questions (ie. making some sort of effort to blend in though such effort is dependent on the importance of the client being entertained), but a sure telltale sign would be my obsession with glancing at my watch, the exit door and the key people in the room (planning an inconspicuous getaway as soon as practicable).

So in summary, unless an INTJ woman is engrossed in interesting conversation with like-minded individuals, she will most likely be inching towards the exit route. That's how it usually goes for me and my friends anyway....

[WavesSootheMe]

You were in a sorority :blank:

Hah, that is the reaction that I typically get. Do I lose all credit now? I'm an I, but not a strong I. Being a "sorority girl" was not part of my plans for college, but it turned out to be a wonderful addition to my life. The story of how I ended up joining is somewhat amusing. I always say I was a bad sorority girl. I took what I wanted and left the rest. I didn't follow all of the rules and if I thought a ritual was a bit ridiculous I spoke up. I didn't let it run my life. I made a point to not live in the house until my fifth year, so that I would meet other people. I was a double major with research. The sorority opened up a ton of opportunities for me that I wouldn't have had the time for otherwise and it made social networking so much easier. On top of that, my chapter was full of science nerds like me. One of my good friends from the chapter is now literally a rocket scientist. Don't get me wrong, there were definitely the girly girls that thought I spoke another language as well, but there's no rule that says you have to love everyone. I didn't go to a party school, so the greek system was rather tame, but still I mostly just stayed out of the politics, popularity contests, and any general superficiality involved.

[Rei]

Hah, that is the reaction that I typically get. Do I lose all credit now? I'm an I, but not a strong I. Being a "sorority girl" was not part of my plans for college, but it turned out to be a wonderful addition to my life. The story of how I ended up joining is somewhat amusing. I always say I was a bad sorority girl. I took what I wanted and left the rest. I didn't follow all of the rules and if I thought a ritual was a bit ridiculous I spoke up. I didn't let it run my life. I made a point to not live in the house until my fifth year, so that I would meet other people. I was a double major with research. The sorority opened up a ton of opportunities for me that I wouldn't have had the time for otherwise and it made social networking so much easier. On top of that, my chapter was full of science nerds like me. One of my good friends from the chapter is now literally a rocket scientist. Don't get me wrong, there were definitely the girly girls that thought I spoke another language as well, but there's no rule that says you have to love everyone. I didn't go to a party school, so the greek system was rather tame, but still I mostly just stayed out of the politics, popularity contests, and any general superficiality involved.

Hrm. That's actually pretty cool. IMO, joining a sorority would actually be an interesting experiment. I'm a pretty strong I but I try to make myself open to "get out there" too as having connections is still the ultimate advantage in the real world. I don't know how you managed to stay out of the politics though. In high school I wasn't even in the SUPER POPULAR groups, and as much as I try to brush it aside, there were still politics.
Man, I'd LOVE to live with a bunch of science nerds. Some people who're actually a little enthusiastic about their studies. Everyone I've ever known just complains :(

[rasoirviolon]

Browsing this thread, (thankfully) INTJ women don't consider themselves as cold. I've noticed a consistency of holding back emotions (which I suppose is what INTJs are inclined to do); I was wondering if it takes a lot of energy to do this as opposed to ignoring the feeling altogether or allow oneself to experience its full-blown effects.

Do you find yourself subconsciously monitoring the emotions or are you aware of keeping track of them?

[Rei]

Browsing this thread, (thankfully) INTJ women don't consider themselves as cold. I've noticed a consistency of holding back emotions (which I suppose is what INTJs are inclined to do); I was wondering if it takes a lot of energy to do this as opposed to ignoring the feeling altogether or allow oneself to experience its full-blown effects.

Do you find yourself subconsciously monitoring the emotions or are you aware of keeping track of them?

Most times... it's there, but it's too insignificant and I just don't spend time... thinking about it. :thinking: That came out weird...

Anyway, yeah I just don't invest energy in um... exploring it like I do my thoughts. Whenever I do, I do so in a different perspective than that of my own. Which really means it's more analysis (thinking) than 'feeling'... which is kinda messed up, but that's how I roll :thumbsup:

[INTJgal]

Browsing this thread, (thankfully) INTJ women don't consider themselves as cold. I've noticed a consistency of holding back emotions (which I suppose is what INTJs are inclined to do); I was wondering if it takes a lot of energy to do this as opposed to ignoring the feeling altogether or allow oneself to experience its full-blown effects.

Do you find yourself subconsciously monitoring the emotions or are you aware of keeping track of them?

Consciously holding back emotions. I show excited emotions. I don't show private emotions. They're private. In private, however, I can let them "happen" to me assuming I have the time to do so. Otherwise I go into bitchmode until I can get my space to have my private emotions.

[Lucid]

Consciously holding back emotions. I show excited emotions. I don't show private emotions. They're private. In private, however, I can let them "happen" to me assuming I have the time to do so. Otherwise I go into bitchmode until I can get my space to have my private emotions.

Yes, I think I do this as well. I wouldn't call it "bitchmode" (for me anyway), though. I just get really withdrawn until I can have time to deal with my emotions.
In general, I don't hold back emotions like happiness or affection around my friends because I've known them all a very long time and feel comfortable around them. The thing I do with emotions is this: If I feel angry or sad or upset about something I usually say to myself, "Ok. I'm pissed off. Do I really have reason to be pissed in this situation, or am I over reacting? What's the best way to deal with being pissed off here? Should I just leave or should I try to have a conversation about why I'm mad now?" Once I have considered the validity of whatever emotion I'm feeling then I'll express it somehow. I find this to be different from the way many people handle their emotions, which is sort of "I'm pissed off so I'm going to act pissed off. I can't be wrong about how I feel so obviously I have been slighted and will therefore express my anger!"

[WavesSootheMe]

"I'm pissed off so I'm going to act pissed off. I can't be wrong about how I feel so obviously I have been slighted and will therefore express my anger!"

Ugh, my roommate does that! She gets mad at me for things that aren't even logically my fault simply because she didn't get what she wanted when she wanted it or things didn't go her way. I tried to explain that to her once and she replied with something almost exactly as quoted above. I then tried to explain that the problem isn't that she feels pissed off or upset, but that it's how she deals with it. She actually kind of listened to that a bit, which surprised me. It's been two months since I talked to her about that and so far so good *crosses fingers*.

[Lucid]

Ugh, my roommate does that! She gets mad at me for things that aren't even logically my fault simply because she didn't get what she wanted when she wanted it or things didn't go her way. I tried to explain that to her once and she replied with something almost exactly as quoted above. I then tried to explain that the problem isn't that she feels pissed off or upset, but that it's how she deals with it. She actually kind of listened to that a bit, which surprised me. It's been two months since I talked to her about that and so far so good *crosses fingers*.

I could not live with your roommate. My head would explode.
I have a good friend who actually said almost those very words to me. "I can't be wrong about how I feel, so I go with it," was I think what she actually said. And in a way she's right. You can't be wrong about how you feel. But I think one needs to take it to the next step in the rational thought process and consider if you're justified in feeling that way or if you're just acting like a brat. She's an awesome girl, but we see the whole emotion thing differently. She's an ENTJ, strangely.

[WavesSootheMe]

I could not live with your roommate. My head would explode.
I have a good friend who actually said almost those very words to me. "I can't be wrong about how I feel, so I go with it," was I think what she actually said. And in a way she's right. You can't be wrong about how you feel. But I think one needs to take it to the next step in the rational thought process and consider if you're justified in feeling that way or if you're just acting like a brat. She's an awesome girl, but we see the whole emotion thing differently. She's an ENTJ, strangely.

She's actually bipolar. I can live with her because she does have a very rational side and we usually get along very well. We've been good friends for 7 years now. My youngest brother is bipolar as well, so the living situation is very normal to me. I just have to know to ignore her immediate reaction and anything she says in the morning, five minutes later she'll come back apologize and we can talk about the situation rationally. It also helps to recognize when she's up and when she's down. I can agree with her in that I think it's important to accept your emotions for what they are, even if they're not always practical or logical. Trying to fight them has never worked out well. The key for me is to figure out why I may be reacting more strongly than the situation warrants (Is it something small that's happened over and over? Am I unfairly attributing an emotion to someone because of something that's happened to me in the past? etc.). Once I figure that out, it's much easier to approach the problem with a clear, rational mind.

[Lucid]

The key for me is to figure out why I may be reacting more strongly than the situation warrants (Is it something small that's happened over and over? Am I unfairly attributing an emotion to someone because of something that's happened to me in the past? etc.). Once I figure that out, it's much easier to approach the problem with a clear, rational mind.

Yeah, I find that this helps me too. I think one of my most irrational emotions is jealousy when an ex boyfriend starts dating someone new (I'm friends with most of my exs). The relationship is over, I don't want to date them again and usually the girls they start dating are also pretty cool and often we end up being friends. But at first it's like teeth-grinding jealousy. And there's just no rational reason for it. I have to just kind of accept it as an irrational chemical reaction and not let it show while I try to make friends with the new girl. It usually goes away in a week or two.

[Antares]

For some reason, everyone around me perceive me as much colder than my fellow INTJ men (or boys, for my age), for reasons unknown. I'm more of a milder type of INTJ and my inclinations never exceed 70% on any aspect of the four letters. Is it gender stereotyping or something else? I don't know... Everyone just expects me to be a feeler and an extrovert. I've never heard phrases directed as me such as: Oh, she's logical, or She's reasonable and open to possibilities. My mother used to tell me: You're so stoic. You're emotionless and you don't care about the feelings of others. You're narrow-minded and you can't stand free-thinkers (which is funny because I consider myself a free-thinker) Hey. I DO care. I just may not show it. I DO have emotions. I might back away from expressive emotional displays and flinch at hugs, but that doesn't mean I'm cold and heartless. So... Answering the question: No, I don't think that I'm cold. Outwardly, maybe, but I have emotions too.

I decided long ago to hold the children issue until later, since I'm only fourteen and things are prone to change, but right now I'd like to have one or two of my own. I'm certainly capable of loving unconditionally. In fact, I already do. I think I'd make a good mother, but that is for my potential children to judge, of course.





Camelopardalis added to this post, 28 minutes and 16 seconds later...

Ugh, my roommate does that! She gets mad at me for things that aren't even logically my fault simply because she didn't get what she wanted when she wanted it or things didn't go her way. I tried to explain that to her once and she replied with something almost exactly as quoted above. I then tried to explain that the problem isn't that she feels pissed off or upset, but that it's how she deals with it. She actually kind of listened to that a bit, which surprised me. It's been two months since I talked to her about that and so far so good *crosses fingers*.

Good going, amiga. I wish my friends are that reasonable. Sometimes with certain people you have to just understand them (no, doesn't mean you have to sympathize, but understanding them will somehow justify their actions so they it will make sense to you). I'm around emotionally unstable also. Once, one of my acquaintances was talking to me animatedly about her favorite TV show. I gave a simple: Oh, I don't watch it. Guess what? She exploded at me (you didn't have to attack it! Just because YOU ... ... ...). I noticed that she listens to a particular singer 24/7, so I made a light comment about it. She launched into a speech: Just because YOU don't like something, doesn't mean it's wrong for others to like it. I didn't criticize her nor did I criticize the artist (in fact, I quite like that artist. I don't know where she got the impression that I dislike her songs). I was just pointing out a fact, and somehow she took that as an assault. I just sighed and said no more. I'm quite direct. I don't mince words or leak my meaning all over the place; I go straight to the point. My spoken communication (not including presentations) consists of the simplest form possible. I don't use similes or metaphors. I would say: I am arrogant. Unless I'm feeling particularly angry, disdainful or passionate, I won't say: I'm so arrogant that I put XXX to shame. I truly don't understand how people extract hidden meanings and masked knives in my speech. Was it the way I said it? Or that I disappointed her because I'm not interested in something she's so passionate about? Did she get the hint that I'm disdainful of her favorite songs? Or is it something else? Help please :)

[danalaina]

I've noticed a consistency of holding back emotions (which I suppose is what INTJs are inclined to do) [...]

Do you find yourself subconsciously monitoring the emotions or are you aware of keeping track of them?

i'd say i'm hyper-aware of my emotions.

when an emotion strikes me that's stronger than normal or that seems logically inequivalent to the stimuli, i tend immediately to withdraw so i can mull it over. this has always interested me, but it can lead to some awkwardness in social situations since, obviously, the people around me don't know what's going on.

so i wouldn't call it holding back, per se. it just might lead someone who doesn't know me well to think that i'm more aloof and awkward than i really am.

[Antares]

If I'm jealoused of someone (I hate to admit, but it happens), I befriend that particular individual. I find that, after a while the jealousy either goes away or persists, but a general affection for them usually takes over and it doesn't get in the way.

[WavesSootheMe]

Or that I disappointed her because I'm not interested in something she's so passionate about?

This was probably my biggest problem with the girls in my sorority. They seemed to take personal offense if I wasn't jazzed about a certain ritual or ceremony, when that wasn't my intention at all. In those situations my actions spoke louder than my words. It didn't matter what I said, they were excited about it and wanted to share that excitement with everyone. If I chose to not participate, I was a missing link in that bond. In your case, if you want to mention something that may make someone defensive, it's good to throw a positive in there too. That way they know that it's not meant as an insult. Instead of saying, "wow you sure listen to (such and such an artist) a lot," say "that's great that you listen to (such and such an artist) so much, I actually like (him/her) too." Just remember that what you say to someone else is going to pass through their filter, not your own, so adding key words to clarify the tone of your comment is important.

You still have lots of time to figure things out for yourself. We make leaps and bounds in personal growth during our teens and early 20s (hopefully). Don't sweat it too much, just take as much as you can from every experience.

[Danisty]

I agree with this completely. It aggrivates me to no end when people see me standing in line alone somewhere and tell me to "smile." Apparantly, i'm supposed to walk around with a toothy grin on my face at all times... who knew? I just think to myself "Why? Is there something i am supposed to be smiling about right now? Give me a reason to, and i will."That irritates me too. I also hate small talk which is something you can't really avoid in the south.

Would INTJ females feel better if hugged when upset about something? Even if the hugger was the cause?If I'm angry with you, touching me is probably the last thing you want to do. Just apologize and sound like you really mean it. I can't stand when people sound like they're apologizing just to appease me or to "be the better person." The worse thing you could do is say "fine you're right and I'm wrong." That one has gotten my hubby in trouble more than a few times.

I don't think of myself as cold, but then I just don't value the same things other people value. Most of the things that would make a person seem "warm" are things I consider to be a waste of time and energy.

I do not want children nor do I think I'd be a very good mother. That's never stopped me from complaining about what other mothers do nor does it prevent me from thinking I'm absolutely right about it. In theory, I know what would make a good mother, but I don't think I could ever pull it off. I made the conscious decision that I didn't want children in 9th grade, but honestly, I always knew. Now if I could just convince a doctor to sterilize me, things would be great.

[Kydwyn]

Do I consider myself cold?
People who don't know me usually consider me unfriendly. People who work directly with find me either very caring and helpful or remote beyond belief, depending on whether I like them or not. Friends, all 2 of them, know they can count on me for anything.
MY PEOPLE, my husband and children and grandchildren, are an entirely different matter. I'm a fiercely protective wife, mother and grandmother. Nursed my kids, homeschooled my youngest three, pick up my granddaughter after school every day, have stood by my husband since before anyone knew he was bipolar, helped him figure it out and we've learned to deal with the highs and lows while raising a family together. I look at my family as a whole and do what's best for it at the time, depending on the circumstances.
It's all logic to me. Figure out what's important and do it. We're a very tight-knit family.

[Booko]

Given that the INTJ trait for women is less than 0.5% of women.

And all the questions on the T/F pretty much point to caring and helping others... Are INTJ women outcasts?? Would they make good mothers? Would they want to have children?

*Ok, I'm trolling as well, but its an important question*

I have children, they think I'm a good mom, and I do care for and help others.

Being INTJ I don't made decisions based on emotions. It doesn't mean I don't have them or find them completely without use.

As for feeling like an outcast, yes, I very often feel like an outcast among other women, and even more so living here in the South where the cultural definition is femininity is one I find particularly loathsome and about as far from INTJ as one can possibly get.

Which is why I historically have tended to hang out with the guys.

When I'm stuck with women who are an unknown quantity, I limit my conversation to cooking and other "feminine" arts I enjoy like needlework and homey topics such as home remedies for dealing with sick kids and that sort of thing.

If the group spends too much time analyzing what someone's motivations are, a la your average soap opera, I'll find an excuse to leave as soon as possible. If I don't, I'll begin by being bored and end by being repulsed, and unfortunately I haven't entirely learned to mask my real feelings about that at all well.





Booko added to this post, 4 minutes and 45 seconds later...

Would INTJ females feel better if hugged when upset about something? Even if the hugger was the cause?

NO! If you touch me when I'm upset, at best I'll interpret that as an attempt to "humour the little lady" and at worst I may deck you.

As for apologies, an apology I have to ask for is worthless, so don't bother trying once I've actually mentioned you have failed to apologize (which will likely be days later).

And any apology, if offered, had better be direct and short. Elaborating only sounds like trying to make excuses. "I messed up, sorry" is all that's needed.

[MtnMama]

Cold? No. I can be incredibly loving and affectionate when I consider someone worth it.

That's the way I am too. I have emotions but have difficulty expressing them or even wanting to express them to people I don't know.

However, I am perfectly affectionate with my husband and my children. I think that having a balance makes me a better mother.

[Deliberator]

Yeah, sometimes. I also get the feeling that people act cold with me because they mistake my behavior for formality or something. I don't know, it's hard to figure out.

I have a terrible tendency to empathize and it makes social situations just excruciating sometimes because I have this sense that I am so awkward and bumbling.

[Headstrong]

Jumping in here. I haven't ready anything past the first page.

Just some background information, my job is babysitting for 3-4 different families roughly 20 hours a week total. I always wanted to do it as a job instead of working in a grocery store, etc. I have been doing it for 4 years and cannot believe how blessed I am to be able to have a job that I can "support" myself on and sincerely enjoy.

Are INTJ women outcasts??
We're definately a rarity, but I haven't cared enough to notice if I'm an outcast or not. I am in my own little world most of the time, but that's just fine with me. I'm too preoccupied to notice anything else or care.

Would they make good mothers?
I know I make a good babysitter. I would probably be a decent parent. I don't think I could handle being a full-time mother, though. I exceed my limit after watching them for 12 hours straight. Oh how I love handing them back off to their biological parents and going home to recharge.

Would they want to have children?
After working in this field, I have come to the realization that I enjoy children, but I do not want ones of my own.

[Astra]

Yeah, sometimes. I also get the feeling that people act cold with me because they mistake my behavior for formality or something. I don't know, it's hard to figure out.

I get this too - I think it happens because the other person is trying to "mirror" my tone and body language and then I mirror it back and we just get into a downward spiral of stiff formality. Sometimes I can make the effort to be a bit bouncier when I first spot that happening in a conversation and it lifts the whole thing out of that spiral. Other times not.

I have a terrible tendency to empathize and it makes social situations just excruciating sometimes because I have this sense that I am so awkward and bumbling.

It's pretty distracting isn't it? I find it can take a lot of effort to get that self-consciousness under control, as well as paying attention to what the other person is saying and thinking what I should say next :embarassed:

It makes socialising pretty exhausting at times.

[Antares]

Well, seeing this thread was recently revived, I was somewhat shocked to read what I wrote a year ago; much has definitely changed. I no longer want children and I've become... outwardly warm, I suppose, at least that's the vibe I think I give off now. I've become colder inside though; and controlling emotions is just like manipulating colors on a paint palette; much easier than before. Maybe it was because I fell out of infatuation, so my exaggerated Fi became subdued. Or maybe I did some growing and changing on my part.

[Evalind]

I'm not cold. I'm just incredibly uninterested.

I relate to this. I may come across as cold because of my disinterest in making more friends. Caring about others takes time and energy, and I'd often rather spend that time and energy on other things. However, for the people I AM close to, I am very caring. The number of people is very small though, like less than ten.

[vanidence]

Well, better late than never. ^^°

I actually feel mixed about this. Sometimes I can be VERY uninterested in People or Things (which would probably make me seem cold), while Sometimes I can have a really good Empathy and even care about the little Things.

However for Children...I changed my Mind a lot. I still do. But I guess I *would like* to have some. Just because I would like to leave my Knowledge behind and teach them my Values etc.
Also because I am very curious and I like to learn new Things. And being a Mom would be a very new Experience with many Things to learn and handle. sure would be nice.
Also, I was the oldest Kid (and only Female) in my "Family". I have two younger Brothers and 3 younger Cousins, who were always in the same House with me. So I had to be a Babysitter or a "Mom" quite a few Times. It was kinda nice. So sure, why not.

[dogwoodlover]

I have a terrible tendency to empathize and it makes social situations just excruciating sometimes because I have this sense that I am so awkward and bumbling.


This is a rough characterization of all of my past social interactions until roughly a few months ago, when I figured out that I was in fact INTJ (not INFJ) and started consciously developing Te. I find that it has helped a lot with being clear and direct, and by proxy, sociable.

[Vagrant]

This is a rough characterization of all of my past social interactions until roughly a few months ago, when I figured out that I was in fact INTJ (not INFJ) and started consciously developing Te. I find that it has helped a lot with being clear and direct, and by proxy, sociable.

Yeah, I always realized I lacked precise empathy, but I could use past experiences to determine what somebody meant or what an action meant.

Which is why when I get in new social situations, I'm awkward.

[Colette]

I'm perceived as cold (I think) by people who don't know me well, but I'm not cold. I'm very affectionate with people I'm close to.

[dogwoodlover]

You know... something occurs to me.

You saw your mother as an emotional being because she showed you her emotional side. I didn't know your mother (obviously) and won't pretend to know what she was like.
BUT INTJs (especially the females) are notorious for only showing their feelings and being emotional around people who are within their utmost inner circles. As her son, you would likely have fallen within that category for your mother.
I think it may be possible that you are reading a "cold-hearted" INTJ female as an F because you knew her very very well and she was comfortable expressing her emotions around you.

*Edit:
I have little nephews (they're 5 years old) and I am much more openly affectionate, playful and nurturing with them than with most other people, even other adult family members.

My mother has always been affectionate and at times emotional with me. She is an ESTJ, which means that Te is her dominant function and Fi is her inferior function. I have witnessed my mother cry far more than my INFP dad (dominant Fi, inferior Te).

[firetiger]

my mom is INTJ and so am i
unfortunately i do consider myself somewhat cold
an *emotional* issue of mine for some time now
but i heard somewhere.. admitting it is the first step? hah

somehow i have a great rapport with kids
but i do not want any of my own

[Nightelf]

I do not consider myself cold, but my emotions are not displayed openly, they are shared only with chosen friends - more often with none. Though formerly this was not known to me, I was reminded several times that this attitude makes people feel pissed off.
At that point I had to decide whether I want to maintain better relationships with felllow students, relatives, teachers etc. on the cost of showing more emotions and friendly behaviour (but somehow that felt fake to me) or follow my natural traits and remain true to myself.
I am not hostile, but prefer to keep the distance and that's why I am considered pretty cold, hurried and taciturn. And not only by other women.

[jakattack]

I do consider myself somewhat cold, although most people wouldn't have noticed, because I can be very polite and I know what to do and how to act, I just don't give a shit.

I have no desire to have kids.

Every once and awhile something will happen that will suprise me, an "outburst" of emotion that differs from my normal cold calm. An example of this being that I have a pit bull pup that I've raised for the past 3 months now. I love her more than I love most people. We spoon at night. Because of financial difficulties I now have to live back in the dorms again next semester, which mean she has to stay with my parents. My mom brought it up light heartedly, talking about how they'll have to build a pen in the backyard, yada yada, and I started crying. I was in the passenger's seat and so she noticed pretty easily and was shocked I think, though she tried to play it off at first.

[Zhen]

No but I can get perceived as cold initially or by in your face clingy emo types.

[AliTree]

i don't consider myself cold at all.
i do know that i am heavily guarded. heavily...
i do have very strong caring and loyal feelings for those close to me, but it takes awhile for those to show and to tap into those.

[Aurelia]

Given that the INTJ trait for women is less than 0.5% of women.
And all the questions on the T/F pretty much point to caring and helping others... Are INTJ women outcasts?? Would they make good mothers? Would they want to have children?


I would consider myself more of a self-imposed outcast. There are women who have tried to befriend me but give up because of my introverted tendencies. I never felt the need to go bar hopping, talk about celebrities or men all the time. I get irritated and drained from those types of activities. The friends I do have usually come to me for advice and they understand that I need my space.

I don't think there are any INTJ women (or men, for that matter) who don't feel. I think the difference is in how much one's emotions dictate one's actions and in how expressive one is about one's emotions.
I think it's strange to suggest there is a group of people who "don't feel." Just because we may not all share those feelings with you, it doesn't mean they aren't there.

Very true. My husband and I are planning on having children soon. I may not share my feelings frequently but that does not mean that I am incapable of expressing or feeling emotion at all. I look forward to motherhood.

[musicaty]

I am cold...everybody says that.And yes..I trust reason rather than feelings.don't have children and don't want them right now in my life.I focus on my career.don' know if i'll make a good mother

[altoid]

I only come across as cold to people who do not know me well. Once I get to know people, and then let them get to know me, I open up considerably. I think with the INTJ ladies there is a more well-fortified emotional defense system in place. It doesn't make us cold, just guarded. We can feel extremely deeply when that guard is taken down, but for me at least it requires a bit of trust.

I do want to have a child someday.

[xxtsubasa]

Precisely the reverse for me. I used to be a warm, friendly and compassive person, and now I'm cold and angry.

haha, the exact same thing happened to me.

i'm INTJ and i'm a girl. i tend to be VERY aloof and private when i first meet someone. people get bored of talking to me because i don't like to share information about myself. but once i decide to accept someone and let them get close to me, i talk more and don't look like a rock all the time. presently, i still only share my feelings with my immediate family members but i do talk and joke when i'm with my friends (though i don't tell them anything about my feelings still).

so, to sum it all up, i guess you could call me cold. i'm only cold to people i don't know well, and it takes a LOT of work to make me open up. and even though i'm female, i HATE kids, so i won't be having one.

[BananaKT]

I am cold but I make up for it with uncommon loyalty.

[Temperance]

If being cold means that I don't want to get married or have kids. Then I am cold.
I would much rather be honest with my decision then blindly create a illusion to satisfy another's need for warmth.
I cringe at the thought of motherhood, and being a women in a crowd of women can sometimes be awkward. But hey, if I can respect their decision to reproduce I believe that my decision to not have a parasite in my body for 9 months should also be respected.
WHAT!? Did I just call a fetus...oops...I mean BABY a parasite..No..not me. I bet you are in shock that a women would call a living breathing creature such a name.
Who knows!?
The unfortunate part about it is that the correct medical term for a baby is in fact a fetus...Which technically is a parasite....But..ANYWAYS we don't need to get technical.
I also don't believe that just because I have a logical approach to parasites/babies/fetus (whatever suits you best and makes you feel better) or marriage makes me cold.
I am in fact full of passion that is thoroughly hidden from the world, by choice. Only a very FEW of those that I trust actually see beyond the "coldness" of my ways.

[OrnateSilk]

Of course not.

However, bear in mind we are heavily weighted towards thinking versus feeling. So, while most of us would likely vehemently deny being "cold," we do not respond to that question with the same emotional range that others do, which is why others view us as such.

My personal response is: I may not be openly demonstrative and prone to public displays of emotion, but I am a very passionate person.

[tPau]

Do I consider myself cold? No; the word I would use is "reserved." I have feelings, they just aren't constantly on public display and don't usually factor in to my decision-making process.

Do others consider me cold? Probably.

[Distance]

From the INTJ women I've interacted with on this site and others, they're far more expressive of emotion than INTJ men. And INTJ men aren't terribly cold beyond a few who are mildly or blatantly sociopathic. The young ones just pretend to coldness since they enjoy the robotic stereotype.

Being stoic or reserved doesn't make a person cold.

[mieu]

Not if you let me borrow your jacket :3

[omniblade]

I am pretty aloof and don't say much. I am kind to those who I respect and trust (once they've shown me I can respect and trust that person), but once that is gone I tend to lock up a part of myself from that person. My kindness has been walked on and taken advantage of too many times to count in the past so I tend to hold off a part of myself if I feel that will happen or will completely withdraw from others.

I tend to observe people and usually there's one specific person I'm drawn to in a group/class/job (what-have you) and they're usually the only person I go to/open up with.

I tend to not get upset or cry at movies and such because I can see sad things coming a mile away so when they happen it is no skin off my back.

I do certainly have feelings and am pure-hearted but I know I come off as cold and reserved so people often get the wrong idea about me.

[mllebrie]

I like that phrase, aloof. It describes me pretty well. I'm perfectly nice (a complete riot, actually) once you get to know me, but good luck with that.

Plus, I live in New England in a big drafty house. I'm practically an ice cube all winter, hehe. ;)

[Femmebott]

I don't consider myself "cold", but others do.

This is all relative, and when you throw in the fact that most people around any given INTJ are probably not T types, the absence of overt emotional "warmth" can be off-putting.