Are people disposable?

[Synamon]

I've seen a number of posts on the forum that got me thinking of this. We live in a disposable consumer society. Nothing is designed to last. You lease a new car every three years, need to upgrade to a new iPod or cell phone or other electronics every other year, and shave with a disposable razor.

Does this condition us to believe that people are disposable? Do we put less effort into friendships and relationships because we think we can just order up another one if we dispose of the one we have? When things get rough do we quit on the people in our lives too soon?

How do you view the people in your life? Disposable or permanent?

[Andrew Popovici]

Oh, at first I thought you meant people were disposable. Stalin once said: "The death of one is a tragedy. The death of millions is just a statistic." but i digress...

People in general have a disposable attitude to other people (Hey there's like 6.2 billion other people out there) so yeah I'm VERY cautious in entering new friendships and relationships because I don't feel like wasting my time and energy with something that will eventually fall apart.

[PHS Philip]

Well, right now? Disposable, simply because I haven't found anyone who I can really let know me, and only one or two who might be worth it. But I think if/when I find someone who is really worth the effort, that'll change.

Then again, I don't use disposable stuff very much, and I don't replace electronics until they break :p

[Josephine1012]

Aside from my family, I have 2 people whom I consider absolutely irreplaceable. As far as the rest goes, I wouldn't want to make them go away, but I wouldn't put up too much of a fight if they took off.

[ElstonGunn]

Does this condition us to believe that people are disposable? Do we put less effort into friendships and relationships because we think we can just order up another one if we dispose of the one we have? When things get rough do we quit on the people in our lives too soon?

That seems to imply that there is inherently something to be gained by keeping people around. There is in some cases of course, but I don't think there is in others. And in a third set of cases, there's something to be gained, but it's not worth the effort-- like working all day for fifty cents.

[Deliberator]

Depends on who it is. Acquaintances are very disposable.

Family is not. I have a very strong bond with my husband and family.

I have no in-betweens really. I don't want to bother trying to make close friendships if I know I'm going to be moving all over the place in the next ten years.


I don't know about the rest of the world. Maybe average people have come to view relationships as disposable and not worth the investment, but I wouldn't know.

[reb]

Synamon,

that presupposes that people are 'not' disposable. what would lead you to believe that we are not just like pieces of toilet tissue on a roll in the universe in the first place? if that might be so, why would anyone hang onto a _______ that is going to poo? in my life, i've seen many people come and go....all 'flavors'. very few have stayed for all of their life or 'up to now' in mine. everything's disposable, evidently....i try to hang onto some 'people/things/memories', but i think that's just my own insecurity causing me to hang onto 'the idea of permanency' due to the short perspective of the human lifespan....

i'll never forget the codependency calendars i used to have at work-one day, this popped up...'question: what is it that we have to let go of? answer: ultimately, everything.'

[Josephine1012]

Synamon,

that presupposes that people are 'not' disposable. what would lead you to believe that we are not just like pieces of toilet tissue on a roll in the universe in the first place? if that might be so, why would anyone hang onto a _______ that is going to poo? in my life, i've seen many people come and go....all 'flavors'. very few have stayed for all of their life or 'up to now' in mine. everything's disposable, evidently....i try to hang onto some 'people/things/memories', but i think that's just my own insecurity causing me to hang onto 'the idea of permanency' due to the short perspective of the human lifespan....

i'll never forget the codependency calendars i used to have at work-one day, this popped up...'question: what is it that we have to let go of? answer: ultimately, everything.'

This makes me sad. Maybe because I have some preconceived notions about how things should be.... I don't know.

I guess the ultimate end of this statement is we both come in and leave this world alone (obviously no arguments there). But that's a little depressing.

[dogwoodlover]

I've seen a number of posts on the forum that got me thinking of this. We live in a disposable consumer society. Nothing is designed to last. You lease a new car every three years, need to upgrade to a new iPod or cell phone or other electronics every other year, and shave with a disposable razor.

Does this condition us to believe that people are disposable? Do we put less effort into friendships and relationships because we think we can just order up another one if we dispose of the one we have? When things get rough do we quit on the people in our lives too soon?

How do you view the people in your life? Disposable or permanent?

I've noticed this also. I long thought this simply was a "Thinking trait," which had quite a lot to do with why I had considered myself a Feeler for some time.

I have a strong tendency to not treat other humans as "objects of utility," though it inevitably happens sometimes.

I tend to want to maintain the relationships I have, rather than finding "new ones." Especially because I'm very selective about who I associate with in terms of friends and lovers, and so usually the relationships I have are pretty damned good.

[Sliderule]

Disposable or permanent?

Only if you throw them into a landfill instead of recycling, they'll stay in that landfill almost permanently. Always be sure to check for the little number and make sure it corresponds to your communities recycling policy.

On a more serious note yes, some people are but I think it largely depends on the nature of the relationship. And even if someone isn't disposable so to speak, if they're a big enough of an ass I'll get rid of them. I think a better question might be are relationships disposable, because you're not getting rid of a person you're ending your involvement with them. I know I am less likely than most to end a close relationship with a person because for me it's very difficult to find people I can have a close relationship with in the first place.

[LionsPride]

I would just add that disposable doesn't mean you don't make friends with everyone or even that relationships change and you stop being friends with them. Disposable would imply to me that you USE the person and when you are done with them you throw them away. This would be more like marrying for money and burning them in the divorce. I'd call the 'not making friends with everyone' being a selective shopper...

I don't think the concept that people are disposable is new. Just nowadays it's so much easier to 'dispose'. Back in the day when travel was less common, disposing of someone who was going to live a block away for the next 20 years didn't make so much sense. Now, it's less and less common to stay put that long and a constant stream of new and willing tissue people is always present.

I personally don't dispose of people. I have promises to inanimate objects. I have loyalties to people I knew in elementary school who I have not seen since grade 4. It's because of these reasons I am careful with who I make friends with.

[Josephine1012]

The purple dragon has a very uplifting point ;)

[Synamon]

I don't think the concept that people are disposable is new. Just nowadays it's so much easier to 'dispose'. Back in the day when travel was less common, disposing of someone who was going to live a block away for the next 20 years didn't make so much sense. Now, it's less and less common to stay put that long and a constant stream of new and willing tissue people is always present.

The way the society we live in influences our values and ultimately our decisions to dispose of people was what I was trying to explore. When something breaks we throw it out and get a new one.

Mobility could certainly be a factor. I wonder if that is different in a very small town where you know everyone. Would there be a tendency to help or support someone who messes up instead of writing them off? In a big city where you can easily avoid someone you have the option of pretending they don't exist.

When I was a kid I learned to forgive the outbursts of the boy next door (he had quite the temper) because he was the only kid my age on my street so my only accessible playmate. My acceptance of him, temper and all, helped him learn to control his behavior. If there had been other kids I could have played with I wouldn't have stayed his friend. I know this isn't the greatest example. I'm just typing out loud.

[Josephine1012]

When I was a kid I learned to forgive the outbursts of the boy next door (he had quite the temper) because he was the only kid my age on my street so my only accessible playmate. My acceptance of him, temper and all, helped him learn to control his behavior. If there had been other kids I could have played with I wouldn't have stayed his friend. I know this isn't the greatest example. I'm just typing out loud.

It's an interesting example. Do you think it was worth it? Did you uncover something that made you glad you stuck around.

I only recently decided to let go of people more easily. If I saw something good about someone, even if it was covered in a pile of shit, I would work hard to make it work. I turned the blind eye to everything else, because I thought there was benefit.

I can't say that it was a tremendous waste of time as I've learned a lot from it, but i've come to realize I could never expect the same in return. It's tough to nurture a friendship only to find out that it's all in your head and your attempts are viewed as weakness, and you are seen as a more of an accommodating commodity although a pretty valuable one.

To give a true benefit of the doubt you have to see significant potential (at least that's my latest theory). If potential is not apparent, there is no reason to pursue something difficult.

[le Duc]

Do we put less effort into friendships and relationships because we think we can just order up another one if we dispose of the one we have?

I think if we think the latter, we will absolutely do the former. Humans (or at least me) are inherently lazy individuals who really only do what has to be done or what interests or pleases us. If a friendship doesn't currently please me and I don't have to keep it going, I probably won't.

The way the society we live in influences our values and ultimately our decisions to dispose of people was what I was trying to explore.

I've often wondered why this is. While society is influencing us, we are obviously part of what makes up society... what causes this outlook of disposability?

I imagine it has much to do with the time frame of the perspective: the way in which we throw away the old and upgrade to the new shows that we have little thought for the impact of the thrown-away goods, whether it be on the environment with waste or on society with broken friendships.

Sure, I can toss off any friendship and get another to replace it, but even if I just look at it selfishly, what will be the long-term resulting impact on my psyche, my making of new friendships, and my ability to get what I want (be it companionship, support, sex, whatever)? If one just gave their self-absorbtion a long-range viewpoint, they might see things much differently. :)

[Chisos]

Powerful question.

Unfortunately, I beleive that in general, people believe others are disposable-and it can have a huge cost.

Personally, I do not see people as being disposable.

le Duc's observation seems to hit the nail on the head.


If one just gave their self-absorbtion a long-range viewpoint, they might see things much differently. :)

So, since INTJs are observed to typically have a long range viewpoint, do you think that INTJs are less likely than other types to dispose of a relationship?

[Liason]

I would say that only three people in my life are indispensable. None of which are related to me by blood and none of which is a current lover. Best friends that understand you and still stay with you cannot be replaced. Family is easier to replace than you think. When you have been without, you realize you can cope. Relationships are fickle and will be over at the drop of a hat. With a few lies stated you can destroy all of the bonds you hold with your family or a lover, but with a true friend they will always come back to you to be someone you can rely on.

[Nikita]

I don't view people on the whole as disposable, but I don't feel connected to people in my life, generally. I care about them, and I protect them, but I don't feel a deep connection, I never have, not with anyone ever. I don't think I'm meant to be a part of their lives or anyone else's permanently. So I think I come off as acting like people are disposable b/c I don't carry people with me, but it's more of an appearance than a reality. I do think that murderers, rapists, child molesters, terrorists, people in the drug trade, and similar parasites are disposable and should be disposed of cheaply and efficiently.

When it comes to family, I think that one of the most interesting questions to ponder is: If you were not related to these people, would you want them in your life?

[Allie]

Disposable or permanent?

History has shown that people are disposable, from wars to politics to slavery to modern corporate structures to relationships, and everything in between. It seems to be hardwired into our DNA, so that sooner or later, someone or some groups will be disposed of, for minor reasons or for unforgivable transgressions.

At the micro level, we understand this subconsciously, so that we either try our best to work out our differences in order to remain in good graces with one another, or we take the easy way out and let go, before we're being let go of. Individually, how we view each other, disposable or permanent, depends on personal circumstances. At best, we may choose to find permanence in others. But, collectively, we cannot avoid the reverse situation occuring repeatedly.

[Seppuku Savant]

I can think of many reasons for and against disposing of the people closest to me. I'd prefer to keep everyone that's close to me in that status, but the future variables are unclear. If my best friend tried to murder me for instance...

[Deliberator]

This makes me sad. Maybe because I have some preconceived notions about how things should be.... I don't know.

I guess the ultimate end of this statement is we both come in and leave this world alone (obviously no arguments there). But that's a little depressing.

A valid albeit subjective argument against having too much f***ing perspective.





Deliberator added to this post, 3 minutes and 46 seconds later...


I only recently decided to let go of people more easily. If I saw something good about someone, even if it was covered in a pile of shit, I would work hard to make it work. I turned the blind eye to everything else, because I thought there was benefit.

I can't say that it was a tremendous waste of time as I've learned a lot from it, but i've come to realize I could never expect the same in return. It's tough to nurture a friendship only to find out that it's all in your head and your attempts are viewed as weakness, and you are seen as a more of an accommodating commodity although a pretty valuable one.

Ditto. 12 years of loyal friendship only to be crapped upon so to speak.

[le Duc]

So, since INTJs are observed to typically have a long range viewpoint, do you think that INTJs are less likely than other types to dispose of a relationship?

Good thought. It is probably better than some types, but the inherent relationship weaknesses of the INTJ (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) still will impact one's ability to consider the long-range implications of those weaknesses. There are very few personalities (if any—it's more of an individual problem) that consciously choose to throw away relationships: it's more of an unwitting inability to see past one's current opinions to see the long-range effects, and I think INTJs have the same problems with our own weaknesses as other personalities do with theirs.

Naturally, I'd like to think our weaknesses are just things others need to learn to deal with, but I work with an ENFP who would vehemently disagree.:)

[Antares]

Mostly, people are disposable, even my family. Some are ireeplacable because of the benefits, but I have yet to find someone irreplacable because I have a deep emotional bond with them. People are my tools for success; I participate in a two-way relationship with them (thereby sacrificing a bit of myself) if I have something to gain from it, but if I don't, I usually put them in the 'recycle bin'; I keep contact and friendly exchanges at bare minimum, but I can always call upon past connections if I have an unexpected need. I would say Im a part of the best friendship I've had in a long time, but only time will tell. Even if the person in question is irreplacable because of the benefits I can reap from them, I give the impression that they are disposable so they would keep themselves in line (this works really well if you're irreplacable to them, but make sure they need you for their own purposes one way or the other). I'm friends with a lot of my 'friends' because 1. Life could get quite boring if I only have my best friends 2. Keeping up the image of having a considerable social life is always beneficial.

[Nikita]

History has shown that people are disposable, from wars to politics to slavery to modern corporate structures to relationships, and everything in between. It seems to be hardwired into our DNA, so that sooner or later, someone or some groups will be disposed of, for minor reasons or for unforgivable transgressions.

At the micro level, we understand this subconsciously, so that we either try our best to work out our differences in order to remain in good graces with one another, or we take the easy way out and let go, before we're being let go of. Individually, how we view each other, disposable or permanent, depends on personal circumstances. At best, we may choose to find permanence in others. But, collectively, we cannot avoid the reverse situation occuring repeatedly.

History has shown that people think people are disposable. There is a difference.

[PRBori]

We are all disposable at any time!!! Unfortunate but true... Anyone who doesn't meet my criteria even in my family is disposable to me. That's the harsh truth... I can be talking to you today and stop being in contact with you in a mili-second.

The only two people outside my kids of course who are not disposable yet are my mom and brother... everyone else is. My brother would be disposable if he did something I could not forgive him for (i.e., hurt someone else to the point it ends in jail) and my mom if she got too involved in my personal life (i.e., meets someone I'm with and talks negative about him or myself to the point it brought problems into the relationship).

If I decide to change my life, which I tend to do often, anyone who have known me will be fully cut of my life and I would begin a brand new life with new people around with no regrets.

This is certainly one of my bad habits... but that's how I am. Family is not as thick as blood all the time. I'm not the closest person to my family and only a few family members have my respect, everyone else is dubbed in my book.

Welcome to my DARK SIDE ...

[Josephine1012]

If I decide to change my life, which I tend to do often, anyone who have known me will be fully cut of my life and I would begin a brand new life with new people around with no regrets.


Could you analyze that a little further. What would make you want to do that? You said you tend to do that often. I really want to understand that part. I've seen people do that by motivations behind that are very mysterious to me.

[PRBori]

Could you analyze that a little further. What would make you want to do that? You said you tend to do that often. I really want to understand that part. I've seen people do that by motivations behind that are very mysterious to me.

Some of my motivations would be:

- Divorce
- Career Goals which would required my life to be more private
- Changes on religious views
- Any individual who's actions go against my Moral Values
- Any individual who's pass behavior could impact my career goals by providing a negative outcome during an in-depth background check

Those are some events that would trigger an automatic withdraw from people that know me. That means If I have to change my address, phone number or whatever it is to stop contact I will, including but not limited to ensuring I stay low and away from places they could be for a minimum of 2 years.

Exceptions on the above situations are co-workers only. I keep people whom I share career goals near by at all times.

[Josephine1012]

Some of my motivations would be:

- Divorce
- Career Goals which would required my life to be more private
- Changes on religious views
- Any individual who's actions go against my Moral Values
- Any individual who's pass behavior could impact my career goals by providing a negative outcome during an in-depth background check

Those are some events that would trigger an automatic withdraw from people that know me. That means If I have to change my address, phone number or whatever it is to stop contact I will, including but not limited to ensuring I stay low and away from places they could be for a minimum of 2 years.

Exceptions on the above situations are co-workers only. I keep people whom I share career goals near by at all times.

Could you see an exception to that if you were in love?

(true to form I sound like a hopeless romantic. The reason I say this, is I can understand all of what you said. Exception to that being someone I loved. I wouldn't necessary compromise my career. But I would try to tweak the situation so I could have both. I would be willing to sacrifice a little bit if I could still maintain that bond)

-hopeless naive
Jo

[PRBori]

Could you see an exception to that if you were in love?

(true to form I sound like a hopeless romantic. The reason I say this, is I can understand all of what you said. Exception to that being someone I loved. I wouldn't necessary compromise my career. But I would try to tweak the situation so I could have both. I would be willing to sacrifice a little bit if I could still maintain that bond)

-hopeless naive
Jo

Extremely rare exception... LOVE doesn't really exist is just an illusion that our mind portrays..... it's the action of a person that make us love them.... which to me means caring in a deeper sense than any other person around at an emotional level.

I rather cut off all ties to someone I really LOVED or as I would say CARE ABOUT in a very deep sense in order to heal from any emotional pain, and would only re-consider keeping the person around if there were no harsh reasons for the break-up. By that I mean it was based on the fact that we just did't click and not based on lack of respect or trust to each other, and most importantly there was COMMUNICATION at a high level for the reasons behind the breakage which lead to a clear understanding of the issues at stake and an agreement for a healing process between the two of us.

[Josephine1012]

I rather cut off all ties to someone I really LOVED or as I would say CARE ABOUT in a very deep sense in order to heal from any emotional pain, and would only re-consider keeping the person around if there were no harsh reasons for the break-up.

I want to make sure I understand you correctly:

By that you mean cut them off while you heal, so once the emotions are fixed, you would consider reconnecting with them?

[PRBori]

I want to make sure I understand you correctly:

By that you mean cut them off while you heal, so once the emotions are fixed, you would consider reconnecting with them?

Yes, but only IF the damage was not based on lack of trust or respect and there was clear communication between the two of us in regards to the reasons behind it. (i.e., goals clash, he feels that he is not ready due to his goals requirements, he has to moved far away to reach his goal, personality clash, we're too stubborn for each other, he's too extroverted for me to handle, etc.)

[Josephine1012]

Yes, but only IF the damage was not based on lack of trust or respect and there was clear communication between the two of us in regards to the reasons behind it. (i.e., goals clash, he feels that he is not ready due to his goals requirements, he has to moved far away to reach his goal, personality clash, we're too stubborn for each other, he's too extroverted for me to handle, etc.)

Yes, I find it interesting because I work in a very similar fashion. I have no problem reconnecting with someone assuming I still consider them to be a worthy human being.

But there are times in my life when I need to take time off from someone. Especially if I loved and failed. That doesn't mean I hate them, it just means I need to recollect the pieces that use to be me, so that I can maintain myself and so that I can continue to like who I am.

That for me can take anywhere from 3 months to 2 years....

[Cygnus]

I've seen a number of posts on the forum that got me thinking of this. We live in a disposable consumer society. Nothing is designed to last. You lease a new car every three years, need to upgrade to a new iPod or cell phone or other electronics every other year, and shave with a disposable razor.

Does this condition us to believe that people are disposable? Do we put less effort into friendships and relationships because we think we can just order up another one if we dispose of the one we have? When things get rough do we quit on the people in our lives too soon?

How do you view the people in your life? Disposable or permanent?

Interesting...perhaps it explains why I still look for things to last and do my best to not buy into the disposable culture. I am also not bored with "the same old thing". I also view my friendships and intimate relationships as enduring, until something forces them to end. Do people quit on relationship too easliy? I tend to think so. I typically make terrible first impressions and and I am hard to get to know, but I am once I have established a relationship I do not give up on it easliy. My best friend and I had a huge blow out and we did not have any contact for 3 years, but we eventually worked things out and things are cool between us and our relationship stronger.

[PRBori]

Yes, I find it interesting because I work in a very similar fashion. I have no problem reconnecting with someone assuming I still consider them to be a worthy human being.

But there are times in my life when I need to take time off from someone. Especially if I loved and failed. That doesn't mean I hate them, it just means I need to recollect the pieces that use to be me, so that I can maintain myself and so that I can continue to like who I am.

That for me can take anywhere from 3 months to 2 years....

I'm the same way... reconnecting with someone can take 3 months to 6 years sometimes.... it really depends on what happened in the relationship.

[Josephine1012]

I'm the same way... reconnecting with someone can take 3 months to 6 years sometimes.... it really depends on what happened in the relationship.

I think life is kind of cool like that because you never know... I don't enjoy break ups, but they do make you feel like you're life is no longer determined and you just don't know what's up ahead. And there is a chance it is something positive, as opposed to same old same old luke warm and not completely satisfying. And if things are suppose to happen, then they will.

[ame]

Mostly, people are disposable, even my family. Some are ireeplacable because of the benefits, but I have yet to find someone irreplacable because I have a deep emotional bond with them. People are my tools for success; I participate in a two-way relationship with them (thereby sacrificing a bit of myself) if I have something to gain from it, but if I don't, I usually put them in the 'recycle bin'; I keep contact and friendly exchanges at bare minimum, but I can always call upon past connections if I have an unexpected need. I would say Im a part of the best friendship I've had in a long time, but only time will tell. Even if the person in question is irreplacable because of the benefits I can reap from them, I give the impression that they are disposable so they would keep themselves in line (this works really well if you're irreplacable to them, but make sure they need you for their own purposes one way or the other). I'm friends with a lot of my 'friends' because 1. Life could get quite boring if I only have my best friends 2. Keeping up the image of having a considerable social life is always beneficial.
Gotta love the honesty! :laugh:
We are all disposable at any time!!! Unfortunate but true... Anyone who doesn't meet my criteria even in my family is disposable to me. That's the harsh truth... I can be talking to you today and stop being in contact with you in a mili-second.

The only two people outside my kids of course who are not disposable yet are my mom and brother... everyone else is. My brother would be disposable if he did something I could not forgive him for (i.e., hurt someone else to the point it ends in jail) and my mom if she got too involved in my personal life (i.e., meets someone I'm with and talks negative about him or myself to the point it brought problems into the relationship).

If I decide to change my life, which I tend to do often, anyone who have known me will be fully cut of my life and I would begin a brand new life with new people around with no regrets.

This is certainly one of my bad habits... but that's how I am. Family is not as thick as blood all the time. I'm not the closest person to my family and only a few family members have my respect, everyone else is dubbed in my book.

Welcome to my DARK SIDE ...
The only problems I have in times like that is when feelers just won't accept it. They will proceed to follow you around like a bunch of hangers-on who feel the need to make you understand. How many times does a feeler need to be told you just don't care anymore?
I'm over a person/people as soon as the decision is made. No regrets.
For people who have won my respect and caring side, it can be a little more tangled, but logic always dictates the final decision,

It takes years with no hiccups in loyalty. Love at first sight, the whole romantic concept of it, is laughable.
Who I value is not determined by emotional ups and downs. I build relationships like buildings. If a person stands on sand, well, you know the answer.

To use another metaphor, I won't risk putting the furniture in a house, until the house is built and standing steady.

[Antares]

The only problems I have in times like that is when feelers just won't accept it. They will proceed to follow you around like a bunch of hangers-on who feel the need to make you understand. How many times does a feeler need to be told you just don't care anymore?


That's not the worst problem yet. I know a lot of feelers who would flip on me for my previous post. I'd probably be seen as someone who has Antisocial personality disorder and absolutely no morals. But the point of people being disposable is not letting them know they're disposable; I would suggest recycling instead of cutting completely. You never know when you might need them, I've made enemies of feelers before by cutting them completely from my life. Making enemies is never good.

[PRBori]

The only problems I have in times like that is when feelers just won't accept it. They will proceed to follow you around like a bunch of hangers-on who feel the need to make you understand. How many times does a feeler need to be told you just don't care anymore?

I haven't encounter such because I tend to keep myself very distant at all times. People know I'm always working and that my job comes first at all times because I depend on it to reach my goals.

However, if a feeler was to bug me after I have decided to end the relationship he better watch out because I don't play. My decisions are final at all times, there is no going back. If I have to get a court rule against him coming near me, trust me I will.

[reb]

Josephine,

you said 'This makes me sad. Maybe because I have some preconceived notions about how things should be.... I don't know.

I guess the ultimate end of this statement is we both come in and leave this world alone (obviously no arguments there). But that's a little depressing.'

well, yes, it's a little depressing...but, think about why it's depressing...we-i-would LOVE to believe that we have a warm fuzzy wonderful world where we all gas about each other, and will help each other, hug each other...that'd be likely 'wonderful, but boring'...we'd not have anything to grouse about, nor any drama, mama. living in that dream world, though, leads one to much distress. the truth is, we live in a jungle where the fittest eat the less fit....figuratively, but sometimes literally (lol). Antares is 'strumming my face with her fingers, singing my life with her song....' i have 'started over' so many times i can't count. people near and dear to me are dead or gone. having over a half century experience, i can say 'we all die'. and 'many leave'. the fact that i see people as disposable-myself included-doesn't depress me any more. my life experience has shown me that this is true....someday i will die. i'm not even having a service...the funeral lady was all bent when i said i dint want one...my friends are mostly in far off places...they're not coming. my local friends have all they can do to run their lives...why do i want to take time from their lives to come look at an urn full of ashes (that may not even be mine?) lol!

we're disposable...living or dead, the body goes away. what happens after? well, there's a ton of threads, and nobody knows...the great surprise awaits...lol! try to see life as a comedy-sometimes, manytimes, gallows humor...you'll have more fun, and not find things depressing so much...

reb's theory of unhappiness and how it may be calculated: the sum of your unhappiness is equal to the difference between how you want 'reality' to be and how 'reality' actually is. (i'm sure this is not my original thought, but i love it, and it's not disposable to me lol!)

[strawberrycat]

I can always find new friends, lovers, etc. There are way too many people in the world to not be able to. Sure, I'd miss the people I currently know and it's also just a matter of me not wanting to go through the effort of finding new people. But for the most part they are disposable, I'd just rather keep them.

[JustMel]

People come and people go all throughout our lifetime. Some of them we wish would stay around longer and some we wish would shut the hell up and go away sooner and in some cases permanently.

I don't so much consider them a loss or disposable as much as ever moving. Some people have been in my life so long that they're a part of the landscape. Some were here and gone so quickly I can see the vapor trail.

It used to be that you were born, grew up and married all within a few miles for the most part so you had "roots" and most of the time you developed longer lasting relationships because the same people were always there. Now you can be born in one country, raised in another and decide to settle in yet another. The idea that if you get married and it doesn't work "you can always get a divorce" also perpetuates the "disposable" mindset. People don't spend the time developing interpersonal relationships like they used to instead a lot of them tend to cut off a piece and re root it somewhere else so you have a more moblie society that replants itself regularly and that is not condusive to permanency in your relationships.

Add in the need to always get ahead in your chosen profession and chances are that kid you befriended in orientation won't be on your same professional level more than a year or two and you end up with more acquaintances that are easier to let go of than you would if you stayed in the same general position for years. Same with houses. You move into a house and know some of your neighbors and then you decide to move to another house and have new neighbors where it used to be that you pretty much stayed in the same house for decades and the neighborhood was a tight knit group.

It's not so much disposable as recycling.

[Synamon]

I agree with all that Mel, I moved around a lot as a child and making new friends was a huge effort so I learned to choose wisely. Even though I knew the friendships would be temporary because I would move again, I still wanted them. I was always jealous of those who were born and raised in the same house and had the same friends since they could walk. That kind of bond and shared history can't be replicated.

The technology of the internet and the instant communication we enjoy impacts friendships as well, we have more choice. That combined with mobility has shrunk the world.

I'm just not sure this is a good thing. People are not a iPod for your amusement. They have feelings and disposing of them has to impact them in some way. There is probably a cost to yourself as well, it certainly makes us more cynical. I can't help but think that this weakens all of us to some extent.

[Josephine1012]

I'm just not sure this is a good thing. People are not a iPod for your amusement. They have feelings and disposing of them has to impact them in some way. There is probably a cost to yourself as well, it certainly makes us more cynical. I can't help but think that this weakens all of us to some extent.

I completely agree. I'm usually the one who does the act of disposing, but it has to with realizing that I've been used or that I am in fact disposable if I don't want to be useful 100% of the time.

I actually, had a "friend" tell me that he would enjoy my company more if I had more hot single girlfriends he could sleep with. He said it in such a way that it was completely understandable why he wouldn't think I am as socially desirable as some ditz from his Spanish class.

This was also the person who was more than happy to accept all of my help and not ashamed to ask for it when he needed it. But, alas, because I don't pick my friends based on looks, my usefulness clearly diminished...

[PortInStorm]

I think part of the commercial influence on relationships is the illusion of plenty and the illusion of 'the better model'.

So we get this sense from T.V. that we'll have endless opportunities for fulfilling relationships, and of course this may not be true. As le Duc says, constant 'disposal' of those around you may change you such that fulfilling relationships aren't possible, or at least as easy to create. Or it could be simpler: you get older and less able to attract a partner til they can see your inner advantages, or you don't move very much, your circle of friends stagnates, whatever.

Additionally though, the commercial sector has created this perception that there's always better than what you already have. So go ahead and throw it away! There's always a better one waiting. All fine and well for retail, but what about relationships? So this one's a slob, the next one's a neat freak BUT he's a mean (frequent) drunk.. and on it goes.

[NHere]

I agree with all that Mel, I moved around a lot as a child and making new friends was a huge effort so I learned to choose wisely. Even though I knew the friendships would be temporary because I would move again, I still wanted them. I was always jealous of those who were born and raised in the same house and had the same friends since they could walk. That kind of bond and shared history can't be replicated.

The technology of the internet and the instant communication we enjoy impacts friendships as well, we have more choice. That combined with mobility has shrunk the world.

I'm just not sure this is a good thing...

Just curious, Synamon - how do you think having technologies such as the internet, cheap telephones, e-mail, chat, etc., would have changed your experience with making friends as you moved around growing up? Did you make the effort to maintain all those multiple friendships you made then, and do you think you would have done it differently with the tools we have today?

I've read what everybody's written...and I'm not sure where I come down on this. I guess in practicality I do treat people as "disposable." Or the way Mel put it, "recyclable," which I like better. I grew up in the "stay in one place, go to school with the same kids K-12" situation, and since have done the "can't stay in one place for more than two years" bit. I have people scattered all over the planet. And I'm very good at moving on. Too good, maybe. Maybe I gulp new people like a never-ending resource, new songs to be played on my iPod, only to get bored with and deleted later.

I know this is painful, especially for those who are still living in the grow-up-get-married-die-within 20-miles-of-home situation. I walk in and walk out of their lives. Now with social networking and internet, I can stay in touch, but really, except for a select few that I had most in common with, I don't. It would overwhelm me to maintain each of those relationships. And over time I notice that I am also treated as disposable (or recyclable) by the people who leave me.

The ones that I do maintain a steady relationship with are the ones that are mutually beneficial. We may drift apart, but I know that if we physically, situationally, and/or occupationally come together again we will pick up where we left off.

[Liason]

It's also shown the winners are the ones who write history. Go figure. :P

[ame]

Very revealing thread.
Almost everyone answers in pattern, though not everyone has it on their page, according to their enneagram type.

[Ool]

How do you view the people in your life? Disposable or permanent?

Well, I guess it is nature that views people as disposable containers of genetic material, or otherwise they wouldn’t be mortal. (That’s, of course, anthropomorphizing nature for the sake of this argument.)

People don’t view themselves as disposable because themselves is all they have.

Whether you view other people as disposable depends on how much you identify with them, how attuned they are to your needs, and how attuned replacement people would be if the people you know were gone.

[Autoptic]

When I say I don't do platonic, I mean that I don't apparently get attached. There is no affection beyond amusement. I've described such before as amusing devices whose affect can easily be ruined.

Now a rather odd explanation, I had a mutt that survived 17 years. Until old age and senility, he only ever bit me and, among other issues, had vomiting episodes which went smoother if I calmed him by rubbing his shoulders. I've gotten between him and a couple large dogs without much care and had obviously gotten quite attached.

Considering the greater depth and complexity, my women issues, and even just the addition of the sex drive, I think I'd get considerably more attached to lover and much faster too. As long as the relationship itself continued sufficiently, I'm not aware of anything that'd get a higher priority though they're would definitely be other equally prime ends. The issues that helped create it would need to be involved in its permanent destruction. Betrayal, cheating specifically, would most likely do it.

[vanidence]

Hm, are People disposable? Yes, some sure are, I'd say. But let's start from the Beginning here.
O kay, I do not really have a Family, except for my Dad. So except for him: Disposable. Why? Simple: I really tried to make it work, like seriously. An d I am very stubborn and enduring when it comes to such Things. BUT it didn't work out. They didn't care about me. So...somewhen they started to be disposable, replacable...whatever you wanna call it.
As for Friends...I never really had any. People either thought I was very weird (I never had the same Hobbies as them. I was Way more "ahead") or they would just use me because I can be so generous and kind. So, since I never REALLY had a true Friend or any Person that would stick to me (again, except for my Dad)...yeah...all the Persons did kinda become disposable UNFORTUNATELY. I really wish I could say Something else, but I can't. No Matter if it was "Family", "Friends", "Work" or "Relationships"...People always just somehow used me because they were bored, needed Something or whatever so...I HAD to learn to see them as disposable. Because they would maybe stick with me for a While, but then either I got "rid of them" because I never got Anything back (and I was so generous, seriously. I let them "leach me" for YEARS before considering to kick them) or because "they were done" and had whatever they wanted. *shrug*
Funny Thing was, how they all always came crawling back to me, because they realized how they never had a Friend except for me and bla. I am VERY forgiving but some People just f'd up period, because some made me become very sick (physically).
But, never the Less...I still try and whenever I meet new Persons, they all get a Chance. Until they screw up. =/
So far for my 2 Pennies. *sigh*

[NHere]

Funny, this topic keeps coming up in RL...

A whole bunch of the people I've been saying good-bye to have commented on how easily we come and go out of each others' lives. We're all communally guilty of "using" people's friendships for our convenience, and then gently drifting away, barely keeping in touch unless there's a convenient reason for renewing our contact. It's the making for a bunch of good "T" farewells, and they've been happening repeatedly. I like it - so logical, and no hurt feelings. Of course, email and internet can make it feel like we haven't really parted...

Of course, the more short term the relationship, the less likely to hit rough patches at all...

[le Duc]

But in response to both comments by NH, I think there are some 'relationships' (for lack of a better term) that are designed to not last very long. If you're in a short-term job, everyone understands you'll be walking away after awhile, and probably won't stay in touch with any of them unless you really click with them or something. Even in longer situations, be it a long-term employment situation, civic organization, or whatever, unless there's an extra connection between you and someone else, all those relationships will fade once you leave that particular group. I don't view this as 'disposability', nor do I think it is a problem.

I think disposability comes into play when you do have a deeper connection with someone—a deep friendship where the connection is just yourselves—and when something arises within that friendship, how do you respond? Is it analogous to a problem with a cell phone, where you toss it and seek another, or do you treat it like a house you own, where when there is a problem, you find a way to fix it and continue to live there? I think that is the distinction: there is nothing wrong with replacing one's cell phone, or with brief acquantances coming and going, but in modern society, the same attitude seems to creep over into deeper relationships.

[Jgib5328]

Most people are, most people are tools to be put to your own use, works both ways I suppose. However, there are some kinds of people that are irreplaceable, such as close family members, friends, and true loves. I would never consider them disposable. Friends to some extent are disposable. I mean on average, most people have pretty similar personalities and tend to enjoy similar things, so there's always going to be more people like that. You also can generally enjoy yourself to some degree with most people, if you both find some sort of connection.

[Colette]

Family is not disposible.

Friends are (to me anyway). That's probably because I don't have any close friends - I think it would be different if I did.

[RobinHood]

I have 2 brothers and 3 nieces that are irreplaceable.

I have many replaceable acquaintances, but I don't make close friends easily. Once I find a person that share the same outlook on life as I, I take good care of the relationship. I value that very much.

I didn't do that in my 20s and after accomplishing all I wanted career wise, I felt some kind of void. Probably my S and F functions were increasing with time. So, I created the opportunities to see my friends and reconnect, even if many are far away. At first I thought it was useless to see some of them a few times a year only, but I realized that this simple act of thinking of them and putting effort in staying in their lives insured our connection was still surprisingly strong. As if no time passed. Probably because most of them are NT and they value this uncommon friendship too.

So I improved myself to insure I was nourishing my friendships with all the vitamins needed :)

I am wondering... does the fact that maintaining friendships in this era seems challenging, adds expectations on your significant other? Several times I told people around 50 or 60 years old that my gf was my best friend. And they invariably think it's a funny concept of the Gen Y. For them marriage has a different role in their life that of best friends (not excluding that there's friendship involve in a marriage of course). That got me thinking. Maybe the subject of a different thread?