Do any believe that they can change the world

[Lionel]

"My ultimate goal is to change the world is to change the world" i have been writing this a lot these days, i believe that i a can, right now its intuitive knowledge, however, i have learn a lot from my experience and insight lead me to this conclusion.

Nevertheless, i am 21 years old and i never get the proper education like most people, however here in Jamaica i never met anyone like myself,i have never met an INTJ before. Going to school every body say that i was smart for my age (i never could understand why) as a result i got special treatment, people call be a genius etc. to me and didn't think i was as smart as they say i was, and because i was getting lot of attention and you know how kids they like attention, so i start reading and the i start to become intrigue my complex idea from physic lead to philosophy and and they didn't teach non of these stuff at school so teachers use to ask me who thought me, however i don't need to get in my life story and i bet no is interest, but the 'insight' that comes from my experience lead me to think that i can change the world and even thought i haven't even start on that journey yet i think that this is the best place to start so peace i need your input, i need the help of people like myself,


no negativity criticism, criticism have the subtle act of destroying meaning and my experience mean a lot to me

[Mau]

no negativity
no criticism, criticism have the subtle act of destroying meaning and my experience mean a lot to me

I reserve the right to not give my opinion due to this line. *Sigh* was that negative?. If so, please forgive me.

[enWTFp]

If somebody needs to believe they can change the world, they better live with this belief. They will be less productive without it, if they need it. I think our main goal is to give our best.

In fact, we all change the world with the existence of every particle of our body. And we keep changing it even after we die, since our particles still exist and continue to influence the universe forever and become particles of infinitely many other living beings for an infinite amount of time. (that is, assuming life is a phenomenon that periodically appears and disappears in the universe, since it is quite clear that locally it disappears completely at some moment)

And now comes the rightful question: what is it that makes life particularly more interesting than any other existence. Complexity over the time axis, maybe.

[Nikita]

Every act has the potential to change the world. By contributing even one thing, the world is forever changed.

[Monte314]

You change your part of the world every day, whether you realize it or not. I say, take control of that fact and decide on what kind of force you are going to be.

[Lionel]

I reserve the right to not give my opinion due to this line. *Sigh* was that negative?. If so, please forgive me. i mean negative critcism





Lionel added to this post, 10 minutes and 23 seconds later...

If somebody needs to believe they can change the world, they better live with this belief. They will be less productive without it, if they need it. I think our main goal is to give our best.

.
thanks alot for the insigh tenWTFp , people always wonder why i always so serious minded and it is becuse of this exact reason, there are things i will never joke about, i think about this every day so yes this is a belieave that i live with and without i would not be me

[dragonsscout]

Everyone changes the world, some more than others. I make it my goal to be in the 'some' and to change it for the better. I think it's a good driving force.

[kubrickfan]

Hey, if we can change genomes in the human body, what's to stop us from controlling plants or air?

[trousers]

I'm intrigued though, how are you going to change the world? It seems like quite a task driven by a fear of death and you'll just depress yourself when you fail.

May I suggest to leave changing the world for now and try to play some part in lowering Jamaica's ridiculous crime rate?

[Elsien]

Seriously, we are extraordinary beings. The only limitations to your ability to change the world, is your own self. Allowing outside forces to dim your sense of true power and ability is a great weakness. In order to change the world, we need to work on our greatest faults that will be our greatest setbacks. We cannot live in the fear of these things it will be extremely counter-productive in the long run. One man can change the world. It is true. I believe it in my heart body, mind, and soul. I too have the same goal.

[changos]

no negativity criticism, criticism have the subtle act of destroying meaning and my experience mean a lot to meOk, here's my comment, not joking and not making any fun of it:


There are more people like you who think they can change the world, so, there are many different visions of how it could be: you have competition.
Inside your post you mention "goal" and "think I can..." but do you want to do it?
Very few have the potential to change the world, and they struggle with other powerful beings.
Many many don't have this vision, but together, they change the world every day keeping it as it is right now. So, one who think he can against many who don't think they can, but together they do.

You didn't mentioned any vision or "way" you want the world to be. I hope you want to do changes for good. Again, without making any fun or criticizing you, I have found that "changing for good" (helping) one person is one hell of a task...

Most of the times, the people who really need to change (help) are the ones less willing to change. I'll say try to help someone, only one person and see how it goes. There is a say here "la mula jala para el monte" which means something like "the mule always walks to the hills" no matter what you do. So, good luck.

* And remember, while you are on your task, remember to have fun, the world pretty often don't appreciate the help.

[Alexander]

Wow, lots of negativity. Either someone changes the world just by being in it -which is true, but not very interesting- or that it can’t really be done unless you’re superman or whatever.

I think to change the world you can start by asking what you want changed than go on to how exactly you’re gonna do it. What needs to be in place for the change to take place than what you need to set them up? Stop thinking of grand visions and look at the situation as a very tangible one. If it doesn’t work, there’s something wrong. It doesn’t mean you’re incapable of doing it. If being forced to do math has taught me anything it’s that if something doesn’t work it’s not necessarily the person it’s the process which you can easily tweak and change to reach the desired result.

[moon]

no negativity criticism, criticism have the subtle act of destroying meaning and my experience mean a lot to me
OK, done. (but negative criticism may help you to prevent failure and develop future acts)

What things do you want to change, what's your aim?
Is it about your contribution or core changes?

What we do in life echoes in eternity.
This should encourage you and i'm curios to hear your goals and starting ideas.

[changos]

There is a song from Michael Jackson (Man in the Mirror) Wanna change the world? good song actually.

[Lionel]

May I suggest to leave changing the world for now and try to play some part in lowering Jamaica's ridiculous crime rate?

You are right, the crime rate sucks however back in 2006 i have seen people get kill every week for a year and most of it happen right in front of me and that was before i had the desire to change the world, and i hate it but i dont hatethe people who do it, however my idea of what happen here in jamaica is difinately link to politics and religion everybody put themself in diffrent types group, there are christian who want to separated the save from damn and politician who play the game we-are-less-exclusive than you so as a result people react the only way they can and everybody wants to do something that give their live some meaning, yes? and becuse most jamaica are stuck in their teen violence excite them-that thrill they get sort of give there life some purpose and definately people stop ingnoreing and start acknowlage them and even though its bad, the meaning is more important. After all that we as the in-group we contribute to that by naming them "criminal". what i am trying say is, went you say that no one is a criminal untill they are committed guilty, what it mean to me is "no one is a criminal untill he is in the act of committed a crime" only in that moment he/she is a criminal and after that moment he/she his just a person who had made a mistake, well, thats my philosophy. I have and very interested idea that could make jamaica a bitter country and i hope one day i will get the chance to exercise that idea.





Lionel added to this post, 24 minutes and 1 seconds later...

OK, done. (but negative criticism may help you to prevent failure and develop future acts)

What things do you want to change, what's your aim?
Is it about your contribution or core changes?


This should encourage you and i'm curios to hear your goals and starting ideas.

It has been said that a belief is a convection that is not necessary based on any empirical or expiriential evidense and it exist as a survving thought form

My Aim is to get people to think about them self not by what they belief in but by what they want to become and realize the fact that, traditions only exist as a mean to break away from it,

I:( have never met an INTJ

[Ool]

Doesn’t the world change without us already?

Is it even possible not to change the world? I mean, there is such a thing as the butterfly effect…

Whatever we do, we are bound to change the world from what it would have been if we hadn’t been around. So what’s the deal with this obsession of wishing to change the world? We do that anyway, whatever we do. And even if we didn’t, the world also changes by itself all the time…

[Alexander]

So what’s the deal with this obsession of wishing to change the world? We do that anyway, whatever we do.

Because some people think the world can be a better place and just changing the world by being in it is empty fulfillment, it doesn't mean anything.

[Moriarty]

An anthropocentric consideration of "the world" isn't really about the world at all. The real world is indifferent to our presence or activities, despite our own sense of worth; it's merely adapted to our being here and will adapt again after we're gone.

As for human nature: no, I don't think I can change it or that I should.

[Ool]

An anthropocentric consideration of "the world" isn't really about the world at all.

Yes, if it were phrased, “adapt our environment to suit our needs better,” then we could talk. Heck, I’d like to see space elevators and an abundance of clean solar energy from space. But “change the world” is a rather meaningless sentiment to me…

[Alexander]

An anthropocentric consideration of "the world" isn't really about the world at all. The real world is indifferent to our presence or activities, despite our own sense of worth; it's merely adapted to our being here and will adapt again after we're gone.

As for human nature: no, I don't think I can change it or that I should.

I'm sure there are more things than just the planet and human nature. Poverty and unnecessary slaughter of people and animals two name a couple.

[Lionel]

Doesn’t the world change without us already?

…

I think the misconception here is the word 'change', what does it mean to want to change the world? the idea is to become more that what one is, to transcend our self diseire and to give compassion were its needed, i belieave to truly understand a person is to ask them what do they want to become the question you should you ask your, what do you want to become? I want to change the world becuase it keep my mind fix on reality itself, it help me understand the human situation,so, why not try to change (help) we are all going die anyway. Why not leave our mark? every organism on this planet what remain of them are just fossil but we as human being-what we left behine is our imagination-think about the pyrimed, mona lisa, etc. Wanting to changing the world is on inspiration, that which inspire my the human mind.

[vanidence]

Everyone can change the World if he or she wants to. All you need is a strong Will and some Faith in yourself.
I think you really have a great Idea, a great Thinking, Lionel. And I say: Go for it. The World needs Persons like you. =)

[Lionel]

thanks alot vanidence, i i only hope to do my best

[vanidence]

well, don't worry, you will!
You might struggle a Bit Sometimes, and you might trip over an Obstacle occasionally and fall to the Ground but...as long as you keep standing up and going further, you can do it.
I seriously wish you all the Willpower in the World for your Goals! I know you can do it. I sure as Hell back you up on this. =D

[Lionel]

well, don't worry, you will!
You might struggle a Bit Sometimes, and you might trip over an Obstacle occasionally and fall to the Ground but...as long as you keep standing up and going further, you can do it.
I seriously wish you all the Willpower in the World for your Goals! I know you can do it. I sure as Hell back you up on this. =D i cant do it alone, but there is this one person whom i respect very much went see her it inspired me to try harder

[vanidence]

i cant do it alone, but there is this one person whom i respect very much went see her it inspired me to try harder
That's great when you have Someone to inspire you! Seriously! =D
Does she wanna make a Change to the World too? =)

[Lionel]

That's great when you have Someone to inspire you! Seriously! =D
Does she wanna make a Change to the World too? =)maybe but she will probly discover it one day

[vanidence]

Yes, probably she will. I wish you much much Luck on this in any Way ^^

I seriously wonder, if you (and me) are like the only Ones believing in the Fact that we can change the World? Everyone else is so quiet here. ^^°°
Where are all the World-Changers? =p

[Moriarty]

I'm sure there are more things than just the planet and human nature. Poverty and unnecessary slaughter of people and animals two name a couple.


I think you've cited examples of human behavior in an attempt to cast an undeserved light on the nature of humans. Ambition, greed, violence...these things are explicitly human, but not entirely limited to humans.

At any rate, I assumed the question about changing the world to be directed at changing human behavior and tendencies, and my answer remains the same: it's not for me to try, because there is no objective yardstick by which to judge my values against another person's.

[Lionel]

I t
A it's not for me to try, because there is no objective yardstick by which to judge my values against another person's. the idea is not to prove that one values is bitter than another persons rather to render this way of thinking obsolete, not to assert from the perspective of the ego but rather as fellow human being, the idea is to become more than what one is and also inspired people to do the same. Moriarty do you think its unnecessary to inspire people

[Moriarty]

That's a tougher question, and is more related to leadership than philosophy. I don't aspire to become a sort of macro-inspiration, but the most inspirational people don't seem to have relished the limelight, either. I just prefer mostly to be left alone in peace and quiet, and as long as people do whatever it is they do somewhere else, I don't care what they're up to.

On a smaller scale, in the context of my profession, I aspire to lead by example...but that's simply a role I am expected to fulfill. We're talking about some big differences between what motivates one person and what motivates another, yet we're presented with doctrinally-correct canned topical answers and ointment values to apply to any given moral or behavioral situation. I personally find such systms superficial if scrutinized, but I'm pretty cynical.

[Lionel]

most inspirational people don't seem to have relished the limelight.i also believe that, becuse these aare people who want to become more than what one is ( bitter human being i suppose)

[Alexander]

I think you've cited examples of human behavior in an attempt to cast an undeserved light on the nature of humans. Ambition, greed, violence...these things are explicitly human, but not entirely limited to humans.

At any rate, I assumed the question about changing the world to be directed at changing human behavior and tendencies, and my answer remains the same: it's not for me to try, because there is no objective yardstick by which to judge my values against another person's.

Not at all, I cited those examples as things that can be changed other than the world and human nature. Two things that are rather difficult to change that you mentioned.

That's alright if you see no objective reference but perhaps one isn't exactly needed. If I were asked which ways I would change the world I would include things such as having a more environmentally friendly culture, removing barriers to human expression and choice, greater equality among nations, races and cultures. I think I would be hard pressed to find anyone who would disagree with me other than some religious folk who are for bronze age rules and traditions, domination of the earth and cultural bigotry.

One thing that makes us human is the ability to take previous knowledge, thoughts and ideas and make something completely new and different from what they were originally intended. So no, I don't think we need an objective reference to work towards. Human creativity -the act of creating- can be a substitute and create new and better tools, language and even values, ideas and ways to work together.

[Moondyn]

When I hear the words, "Change the world", the first thing that pops into my head is unlocking some hidden scientific truth like Einstein did the special theory of relativity or inventing something as powerful as electricity, the internet or the atomic bomb.

So when I think of me changing the world, this is the way I imagine it, not political, religious, destructive, but scientific.

[hongi]

A journey of a thousand miles, starts by making the first step, than a second, third . . .

Anyone can change their world, but how many can change everyones world?

[tp6626]

Yeah, people change the world every day, its just no one realises it! People do things every day that avoid catastrophes. It is just that we are conditioned only to see value in things that are positively achieved, i.e. "Look what I did for you", rather than "Look what I avoided for you".

Now, let me try to explain with an example.

The guy who campaigned for locked, bullet proof doors for all aeroplane cabins before 9/11, had his idea been implemented, probably would have been confined to obscurity. He would have been unknown, got little to no credit, and probably gone to his grave feeling that he cost the airlines loads of money (or thats how they'd have made him feel).

Even having saved thousands (maybe 10's of 1000's) of lives in events like 9/11, which at that point were unknown & highly unlikely.

That's a hypothetical example, but I think it outlines the idea I am trying to put across.

[Lionel]

Yeah, people change the world every day, its just no one realises it! People do things every day that avoid catastrophes. It is just that we are conditioned only to see value in things that are positively achieved, i.e. "Look what I did for you", rather than "Look what I avoided for you".

N.human being are unique in such way, that we have the ability to exprience meaning,i also believe we change the world around us every day and we value that exprience just by being alive, and being alive for some of us is not enough our mind see the direction were the world is heading and even tough we might not live to see it we still want to get it there ourself. What i am trying to say is changing the world is not as simple being alive but rather to embrace humanity for what it want to become, even if i dont do it somebody else will.
And i am fully aware of this fact

[LaoTzu]

I think to change the world you can start by asking what you want changed than go on to how exactly you’re gonna do it. What needs to be in place for the change to take place than what you need to set them up? Stop thinking of grand visions and look at the situation as a very tangible one. If it doesn’t work, there’s something wrong. It doesn’t mean you’re incapable of doing it. If being forced to do math has taught me anything it’s that if something doesn’t work it’s not necessarily the person it’s the process which you can easily tweak and change to reach the desired result.


I couldnt agree more.

Too many have this fantastical idea that they will change the world... but they dont plan, they dont think about the process of actually going about it.

I think those who are successful in changing the world (because there are 100's of millions of ways to change things).... are able to do so because they have a clear vision not of just the end, but the steps in-between. they dont get bogged down by naysayers, but should they hit a bump, they work it out logically and continue without fail.

[Julien]

Science will change the world (again).

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[Sere]

Personally, I don't think that I, alone, can change the world. However, I can certainly make a difference.

Topic starter, let me ask you something. In which areas of worldly affairs would you prefer to leave a mark? Where do you expect change to take place? Have you planned a global picture of where and when your energies will be focused?

Many thanks,
Sere.

[Lionel]

Personally, I don't think that I, alone, can change the world. However, I can certainly make a difference.


I never believe that its something i can do alone



In which areas of worldly affairs would you prefer to leave a mark?

Still think about that every day i dont have a prefer area but i am still young and there is a lot more left to learn and i also believe that one i am out there i will find i path suited for me and my exprince.

Where do you expect change to take place?

This something i put alot of thought into, i expect change to take place in third world country like Jamaica. The politics system in all third world country i dont thinks it fit well, it put people in groups and give them the only option but to fight againts each other. For example here in jamaica there are two diffrent political party and each party is reconized by its colurs green and orange this colurs has no meaning without each other and went there toghter they play the get of we-or-tolerant-than-you and the meaning of each group become treated because these colurs doesn't have and idea of what they want to become, so most people doesn't know how to react to the idea meaninglessness, so as a result they react violently. So i i expect change to take place in the way politician see themself to the type of subliminal message they sent.

Have you planned a global picture of where and when your energies will be focused?


.

i believe that this is the most difficult one and this is not something could every do alone

[Sere]

I never believe that its something i can do alone

Hence as a collective, change can kick into play...but as an individual, you can make a difference. That's cuz like other people you have a contributory value to share in your environment.

Still think about that every day i dont have a prefer area but i am still young and there is a lot more left to learn and i also believe that one i am out there i will find i path suited for me and my exprince.


And you must sincerely believe in this vision. Sincerity to your goals will help you accomplish them well.

This something i put alot of thought into, i expect change to take place in third world country like Jamaica. The politics system in all third world country i dont thinks it fit well, it put people in groups and give them the only option but to fight againts each other. For example here in jamaica there are two diffrent political party and each party is reconized by its colurs green and orange this colurs has no meaning without each other and went there toghter they play the get of we-or-tolerant-than-you and the meaning of each group become treated because these colurs doesn't have and idea of what they want to become, so most people doesn't know how to react to the idea meaninglessness, so as a result they react violently. So i i expect change to take place in the way politician see themself to the type of subliminal message they sent.

Start from a small scale angle and see what you can do for this goal from that perspective. You might be surprised, but even today you can contribute something valuable to this goal even if it means as little as raising awareness of these sad state of affairs to, for example, students or people alike, that can in turn assist you to co-ordinate events and activities to promote the well-being of society, whisking away from violence. With time you can make this a larger scale project.

i believe that this is the most difficult one and this is not something could every do alone

You can give it a shot, alone...you'll never know what course of action to take in order to make it possible until you've experimented it both on your own and with others. Don't knock it until you've tried it ;)

[jesse]

"My ultimate goal is to change the world is to change the world" i have been writing this a lot these days, i believe that i a can, right now its intuitive knowledge, however, i have learn a lot from my experience and insight lead me to this conclusion.

Nevertheless, i am 21 years old and i never get the proper education like most people, however here in Jamaica i never met anyone like myself,i have never met an INTJ before. Going to school every body say that i was smart for my age (i never could understand why) as a result i got special treatment, people call be a genius etc. to me and didn't think i was as smart as they say i was, and because i was getting lot of attention and you know how kids they like attention, so i start reading and the i start to become intrigue my complex idea from physic lead to philosophy and and they didn't teach non of these stuff at school so teachers use to ask me who thought me, however i don't need to get in my life story and i bet no is interest, but the 'insight' that comes from my experience lead me to think that i can change the world and even thought i haven't even start on that journey yet i think that this is the best place to start so peace i need your input, i need the help of people like myself,


no negativity criticism, criticism have the subtle act of destroying meaning and my experience mean a lot to me

To some extent, I think most people have at one point or another thought about what they could do to somehow improve the world around them, maybe even the whole enchilada. Depending on your circumstances overall, the bleaker they are, I'm sure the more one would think about what _could_ and should be done. Conversely, most often it leads to nothing more than daydreaming and inaction. Remember, the world is a big place and one person cannot tackle all its burdens and troubles.

Education is a wonderful thing and what I keep noticing is that instead of it being a constructive service to an individual, it often has overtones of respecting authority and learning to yield to those "above" yourself. Be thankful you are utilizing your head and seeing the world from your own perspective, rather than from an imposed view.

[Fredi]

Of course I can change the world, just by existing i am interacting and with that I am changing the world, always. So everyone is always changing the world, the only question is to what extent is your interaction impacting the world, and is the impact negative or positive? Anyone can decide to have an positive impact if they really want to, so that is simple. I think history proves that no matter background anyone can rise and have huge positive impact on the world.

[Kisai]

I think the optimistic view of "anyone can change the world" is pretty stupid. If you look at the past, an overwhelming majority has been erased and forgotten once they died and everyone who knew them had also died. People would like to think that they're different, but truly, unless you're really lucky you won't have a chance, and even then, you won't even know how you changed the world, or how those changes mutate in the future. People might be using your image to spearhead changes that you would never agree with. Given that you're out of the picture, that doesn't just seem likely, but inevitable.

[hullolife]

I think many of you will appreciate this... :)

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[Lionel]

I think the optimistic view of "anyone can change the world" is pretty stupid. If you look at the past, an overwhelming majority has been erased and forgotten once they died and everyone who knew them had also died. People would like to think that they're different, but truly, unless you're really lucky you won't have a chance, and even then, you won't even know how you changed the world, or how those changes mutate in the future. People might be using your image to spearhead changes that you would never agree with. Given that you're out of the picture, that doesn't just seem likely, but inevitable.
i am fully aware of this, but think about the person you would become on such a journey, isn't that enough





Lionel added to this post, 9 minutes and 37 seconds later...

I think many of you will appreciate this... :)

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i really love it, thanks alot, i save so can use it as an inspiration and it really did inspire me

[pure potential]

"Be the change you wish to see in the world" is more than an awesome phrase, its the only way to make change. We can only control our mind, everything else is pure inspiration. Compassion is also a key here. Growing up with a wild childhood, I finally made peace with the fact that I couldn't change anyone- especially my Dad- and that I had to be the change and it would inspire others. And I've seen it in action. It is a very efficient and effective use of energy and can make a world of change. Proceeding this way also allowed me to keep learning. Holding onto destructive emotions, like frustration, instead of processing them were barriers to my growth. We hold the most power in our minds, even right down to our fingertips. When we have the courage to harness it and shine the light on others, the fire gets stronger and makes waves. You just have to be confident and believe in your SELF. If you do, others will too.

I suggest creating Vision statements. Here's a great guide from Malcom Cohen..

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[Kisai]

i am fully aware of this, but think about the person you would become on such a journey, isn't that enough

Oh yes. Don't get me wrong. I think one should be the best person one can be irregardless of circumstance.

[LaoTzu]

Topic starter, let me ask you something. In which areas of worldly affairs would you prefer to leave a mark? Where do you expect change to take place? Have you planned a global picture of where and when your energies will be focused?


I was thinking of writing a book on my new religion... and actually have started :) its not a religious text, but more of a novel.

Im hoping to finally gather all world religions under one banner, not to make them all disappear ... but to show that they are all valid and all equal... just different views on the same story. That there is truth in all of them.

Regardless of your views on religion, It would be an important step forward in human relations were religions able to resolve their differences.

[Lionel]

I was thinking of writing a book on my new religion... and actually have started :) its not a religious text, but more of a novel.

Im hoping to finally gather all world religions under one banner, not to make them all disappear ... but to show that they are all valid and all equal... just different views on the same story. That there is truth in all of them.

Regardless of your views on religion, It would be an important step forward in human relations were religions able to resolve their differences.



its not reliogion the problem its us as human being. Religion is just the idea held my these people my idea is to make people understand the meaning of prevailing believes system and that the fact that it only exist for us to break away from it so the human identity can precise. This idea of yours was my first idea but i realize this idea is stagnant. Its a great idea at first but you have put more thinking in to it and a good start though, you should focuse more on endgering essential meaning.

[BigWoc]

Just writing what you wrote, could change the world for many. Jamaica has a lot of things not many people know about, could you write something for the world to understand it?

[Lionel]

Just writing what you wrote, could change the world for many. Jamaica has a lot of things not many people know about, could you write something for the world to understand it?
I probly could

[Franklin71]

Every action changes the world in some way, and even the smallest actions can snowball to have a large impact. But setting out to change the world is something rather different, because the consequences of any action are, in the long run, unpredictable. An action taken to bring about X may bring about Y, too, or actually result in X not happening at all.

[Lionel]

Every action changes the world in some way, and even the smallest actions can snowball to have a large impact. But setting out to change the world is something rather different, because the consequences of any action are, in the long run, unpredictable. An action taken to bring about X may bring about Y, too, or actually result in X not happening at all.

And even if X doesn't happen it still will make me a bitter person however, if i dont somebody else wil.l And dont forget that many people are inspire greatly by this ideology i believe its the human conscieness trying to grasp 'what is and what should or will be'

[volk]

A wise person once said: "If you want to change the world, start with yourself and the world will follow"

Now I want to ask you a question: What is it that you think is changing your view of the world? My personal answer to this question is that it is people with knowledge around me that change me the most. My ideas evolve when I read books and listen to what people that are wiser than me have to say. That's what changes me and if I were you and wanted to change the world, I'd begin by changing myself. I'd gather all the knowledge that I possible can and synthesize my own ideas from it that would move people in the future the same way I get moved by all the great ideas today.

[dalidaisy]

I think we all understand that every action changes the world. I think the OP meant this on a deeper level...

This is frustrating. Someone mentions they want to change the world & instead of encouragement gets this?

What's wrong with a little optimism? I desire to change the world. I'll admit it. I do it everyday by imparting knowledge to my children & those around me that will listen. I strive to set a good example & want to leave a good story for others to tell about me after I'm gone. Is this a terrible thing?

We all do our part to change the world everyday. What are your intentions?

[volk]

To OP:

I think that you are confusing yourself a little by looking so carefully at the detailed processes by which changes to the world around you interact with each other. Maybe it's better to try and look at it at a higher level? To do that, you can begin by answering a simple question that dalidaisy suggested: What is it exactly that you want to change about the world?

Write down 10 things that you want to change in the environment around you and memorize them. When time is right and you have the opportunity to make something right, you remember your list and act according to your desires that you have so carefully written down in that list.

[auriga vega]

First, focus on just one specifi thing. Work hard at it and encourage people to join you. I think changing The World is impossible. But you can do little things that will change the world for the better.
I'm doing it on recycling.

[Nihilum]

No. 1 person is practically powerless. I don't dream of changing the world because I don't think it can happen. I've adjusted to lowering my expectations.

[Lionel]

A wise person once said: "If you want to change the world, start with yourself and the world will follow"

Now I want to ask you a question: What is it that you think is changing your view of the world? My personal answer to this question is that it is people with knowledge around me that change me the most. My ideas evolve when I read books and listen to what people that are wiser than me have to say. That's what changes me and if I were you and wanted to change the world, I'd begin by changing myself. I'd gather all the knowledge that I possible can and synthesize my own ideas from it that would move people in the future the same way I get moved by all the great ideas today.

LOL
have been doing this sence i was about 16, they never thought philosophy in high school and i have been studying sencethen; my mind constantly gather information. If i find myself in a situation where i of to wait i make sure i bring a book, if one day go past and i haven't read i feel empty, it feel as if something missing and i believe thats why we intj do things with intensity because we hope to learn as much as we can. Fusing idea is something that i am good at i do this from salitary walk however, as many people migth alread know my biggest problem is the barrier i create within myself.

[volk]

My ultimate goal is to change the world is to change the world

There is a fundamental flaw in this goal and that is the fact that it's so vague. Basically you can achieve it by doing anything, even breathing or dropping a hair. It does not specify the result that you are trying to achieve either. You have to be more specific in your goal setting. You have to decide what exactly it is that you want to change in your world - the result! Then you construct lists of subgoals that comply with that final result.

For example, if my greatest intention in life was to minimize crime then I would write down goals that would look something like this:

I shall become head of the police department
I shall report every crime that I witness no matter how big or small it is.
I shall never bring physical, financial or emotional harm to any person in my vicinity.
etc etc..


i cant do it alone, but there is this one person whom i respect very much went see her it inspired me to try harder


Sure you can. You just need to reevaluate your goal setting strategy, decide what exactly is it that you want to change and then just go ahead and do it.

[Lionel]

There is a fundamental flaw in this goal and that is the fact that it's so vague. Basically you can achieve it by doing anything, even breathing or dropping a hair. It does not specify the result that you are trying to achieve. You have to be more specific in your goal setting. You have to decide what exactly it is that you want to change in your world - the result.

The result is not important to me becuse i probly wont live to see it and less its a minor change that anybody could have done. what is importand is journey and the type person i will become, i think i might inspire others to do the same and even if the world doesn't change there will still be people to follow. And to tell u the truth i dont believe in a 'bitter world' its the same way a bird is not bitter than the egg it came froms the bird is the egg way of making new eggs, and even if we dont force the egg to hatch it will end up hatching anyway.

[volk]

Yes I agree that the journey itself is the fun part, but unless you know what result you are trying to achieve, there will be no consistent journey in your life. Your life journey will behave like a rocket with no tail fins.

[Lionel]

Yes I agree that the journey itself is the fun part, but unless you know what result you are trying to achieve, there will be no consistent journey in your life. Your life journey will behave like a rocket with no tail fins.
of course i know the type result i want . for example i would love to see people stop ctegorize people in the sense of calling them criminal and what make it even worse, even went they have done their time we still give them other name like X con which add unnesccary meaning; quite frankly i believe that no one is a criminal untill they are in the act of commiting a crime after then they are just people who had made a mistake wether or not they realize it. secound we live in world so many diffrent religion and everybody eqaute themself by his/her religion so then we have diffrent groups like christian, jews, muslim etc. etc. and we all know how self defeating groups can be, the truth of the is we forget that the only reason for the past for us to brake away from it, yes? Volk u started the thread "The analogy between God and Self" but the truth is the only way people will see this analogy clearer and less they deside to brake away from the tradional idea of god however, i on the other hand thinks this is how modern human being should think, i like that thread very much

[volk]

for example i would love to see people stop ctegorize people in the sense of calling them criminal and what make it even worse, even went they have done their time we still give them other name like X con which add unnesccary meaning; quite frankly i believe that no one is a criminal untill they are in the act of commiting a crime after then they are just people who had made a mistake wether or not they realize it.

Well, maybe you can open a shop and employ these people, showing to everyone around you that they are in fact very capable of contributing to the society :)

[Cesare Borgia]

I'm not saying that i will change the world, but i think i could spark the mind that DOES change the world.

[BananaKT]

Lionel,
Here is your chance, another Jamaican INTJ. What is your idea for changing the world? At least Jamaica, because I'm quite sick of how things are now.

[PeterIMC]

"My ultimate goal is to change the world is to change the world" i have been writing this a lot these days, i believe that i a can, right now its intuitive knowledge, however, i have learn a lot from my experience and insight lead me to this conclusion.

Nevertheless, i am 21 years old and i never get the proper education like most people, however here in Jamaica i never met anyone like myself,i have never met an INTJ before. Going to school every body say that i was smart for my age (i never could understand why) as a result i got special treatment, people call be a genius etc. to me and didn't think i was as smart as they say i was, and because i was getting lot of attention and you know how kids they like attention, so i start reading and the i start to become intrigue my complex idea from physic lead to philosophy and and they didn't teach non of these stuff at school so teachers use to ask me who thought me, however i don't need to get in my life story and i bet no is interest, but the 'insight' that comes from my experience lead me to think that i can change the world and even thought i haven't even start on that journey yet i think that this is the best place to start so peace i need your input, i need the help of people like myself,


no negativity criticism, criticism have the subtle act of destroying meaning and my experience mean a lot to me

Of course you can change the world. But the first thing you have to learn is to not be against negative criticism. It doesn't destroy anything and you have to learn to live with it because you'll get tons of it when you actually are changing the world. People don't like change and will make you aware of that. (with this I mean people don't like the process of changing it self. Once a change has been implemented they usually forget about how it was before and are perfectly happy again.)

"the world" can be many things. The founders of Google made a huge change to most of the world with their search engine. Other people have made changes on a smaller level, but who said that "the world" needs to be the entire globe. You can also change your world, or the world of the city you live in, etc.

But seriously, don't get annoyed by negative critissism. If you allow that you'll never change any world.

[John F Kennedy]

The trick is to know when to effect change and when to just sit back and forego any change. Seriously, I see a lot of people hellbent on changing things and often the changes are for the worse. Some of them should just relax for a while.

[BananaKT]

Of course you can change the world. But the first thing you have to learn is to not be against negative criticism. ...<snip>...
But seriously, don't get annoyed by negative critissism. If you allow that you'll never change any world.

I don't think Lionel has a problem with negative criticism in the sense you mean. What Jamaicans call negative criticism isn't constructive at all. It is purely an attempt to destroy, silence, humiliate or demotivate. The motive isn't to rationally discuss an argument. That sort of criticism is what he fears. I think he's just a little worried that he might encounter that here. Please correct me if I am wrong, Lionel.

[PeterIMC]

I don't think Lionel has a problem with negative criticism in the sense you mean. What Jamaicans call negative criticism isn't constructive at all. It is purely an attempt to destroy, silence, humiliate or demotivate. The motive isn't to rationally discuss an argument. That sort of criticism is what he fears. I think he's just a little worried that he might encounter that here. Please correct me if I am wrong, Lionel.

That kind of negative criticism is the kind I was talking about as well. When I started my business, most people thought I was crazy and it even got to the point where people asked me when I would stop being so idealistic and get a "real" job. A lot of people try to talk you out of doing things if it's just a little bit out of the standard expectations.

If you can't handle that kind of negative critisism, you'll never change anything.

I read an example in the book "rich dad, poor dad". The writer had talked with a friend about some kind of investment he frequently did on which he on average got an 18% ROI. But the usual average on that investment was about 12%. He got this better ROI by doing things a bit different from the usual way. The friend tried to talk him out of doing it that different way and tried to explain why the standard way was better, even go so far as to write a whole letter to the writer. But the writer always got that higher ROI than his friend. Destructive criticism is something you have to learn to deal with when you´re different and want to change the world.

And it really doesn't matter where you live.

[BananaKT]

You are perfectly right.

[Olympics2010]

I don't believe that it is possible to change the world. I do believe that the biggest difference to make towards this goal is only to change oneself. This is the place to start, and I doubt that it is useful to go any further. Any difference in the world must start through oneself. It's a kind of ironic selfless selfishness that has a real effect, and much still needs to be said about it.

[BostonIan]

Yes, I believe I can change the world. I think I already have the ability to cure almost anyone from depression, unawareness, selfishness, pretty much any psychological malady or personal fault. If you cure one person, the cured person has the ability to cure a hundred other people, in their lifetime, and it can spread like a virus. For now, it's just a matter of hammering out the details and polishing it into an package that could be accessible to enough people.

Also, our type has the ability to see the landscape, know what moves what, where the pressure points of a civilization are. A great animal acts from the brain, down through the nerves, eventually to the muscles and claws. You don't have to wrestle with the muscles and claws, all you have to do is affect the nerve center. You can change the world by changing the things that change it.

[pocohauntus]

You can change your own world which in turn changes the entire world.

[Sylar]

"My ultimate goal is to change the world is to change the world" i have been writing this a lot these days, i believe that i a can, right now its intuitive knowledge, however, i have learn a lot from my experience and insight lead me to this conclusion.

Nevertheless, i am 21 years old and i never get the proper education like most people, however here in Jamaica i never met anyone like myself,i have never met an INTJ before. Going to school every body say that i was smart for my age (i never could understand why) as a result i got special treatment, people call be a genius etc. to me and didn't think i was as smart as they say i was, and because i was getting lot of attention and you know how kids they like attention, so i start reading and the i start to become intrigue my complex idea from physic lead to philosophy and and they didn't teach non of these stuff at school so teachers use to ask me who thought me, however i don't need to get in my life story and i bet no is interest, but the 'insight' that comes from my experience lead me to think that i can change the world and even thought i haven't even start on that journey yet i think that this is the best place to start so peace i need your input, i need the help of people like myself,


no negativity criticism, criticism have the subtle act of destroying meaning and my experience mean a lot to me

Yes, every action that we do changes the world, but doesn't that happen by default? Everything is action/reaction. So in my opinion, saying that we all change the world is close to meaningless since it's a given.

Personally I relate strongly to your story. I urge you to try and do as much as you can for the world. After all, why are we here? It just gets underneath my skin when I see people every day, making nothing of their lives, contributing nothing but the bare minimum for society and living as though they never existed. No, I'm certainly not proposing that we all do something extroadinary; after all, some people might just be here to do one key thing that can save millions of lives. But it's the people that want to make a huge difference (like yourself?) that I admire; the people who want to make something of their lives.

If you wanted inspiration, I hope I provided that for you :).

[Lionel]

I don't think Lionel has a problem with negative criticism in the sense you mean. What Jamaicans call negative criticism isn't constructive at all. It is purely an attempt to destroy, silence, humiliate or demotivate. The motive isn't to rationally discuss an argument. That sort of criticism is what he fears. I think he's just a little worried that he might encounter that here. Please correct me if I am wrong, Lionel.

thats absolutely right BananaKT, some time i get piss about, they even resort to calling me mad because they fail to see the world for what it is some people don't even care about change, they live in a dome, i wish to change that, but i guess it all come down to values

[intellael]

Alter the course, perhaps... New technology, clarification of theories, and the like have an impact on humanity's direction. There is a difference between "wanting to change the world" and "changing the world inadvertently by some new discovery". Know the difference. Like most pioneers, you will be the prophet in the desert. Be okay with that and all will be well.

Start assessing the problem that captures your attention and begin working on a solution/plan to solve it.

As far as social reform, a certainly difficult task... Any theory you think up should be tested in your own life, your household, and your community respectively. Those will provide you with working models.

[PeterIMC]

thats absolutely right BananaKT, some time i get piss about, they even resort to calling me mad because they fail to see the world for what it is some people don't even care about change, they live in a dome, i wish to change that, but i guess it all come down to values

No,.. it comes down to how much crap you can take before you give up.

You will never be able to change how people see the world by telling them it's different from how they see it. If you want to change their world view, then you have to change their worlds. You can do that by giving them access to a better life. Now how you give them access to a better life, is another question.

It can be relatively simple steps at the time. Too much change at once will make them go against it.

So what's your plan of small steps ?

[Lionel]

No,.. it comes down to how much crap you can take before you give up.



trust me, i have to take crap every week but the funny thing is it doesn't affect as how it use to to affect a year ago, you see no one as the courage to go one on one with me they will never sit down and talk to me only a few. So all the crap i have to take is went people to group up.

No,..
It can be relatively simple steps at the time. Too much change at once will make them go against it.


yeah, i had to experience this on my own

So what's your plan of small steps ?

Honestly this step is not as easy as i hope it to, i still have problem with this one. I start to believe that this part of my life is the hardest part right now, because one i get past this step there is no turning back

[BananaKT]

trust me, i have to take crap every week but the funny thing is it doesn't affect as how it use to to affect a year ago, you see no one as the courage to go one on one with me they will never sit down and talk to me only a few. So all the crap i have to take is went people to group up.


I think the first step in changing someone elses attitude is to understand their motivation. Until you understand that you are playing different games with different rules and objectives so, failure is inevitable.

The next thing to understand is the limitations of your own powers. Knowing what resources and which people are needed to accomplish your goal is important.

For instance, I am extremely introverted to the point of almost complete isolation. If I intend to influence society this isolation must be overcome through a change of my own attitude, manipulation of the environment or most promisingly recruiting a willing (or unwitting) agent.

In every group there is a person who wields more influence over the others. Control him and his influence over the group will be yours. To control him understand his motives. Use this understanding to gain influence over him and then the group. I am generally ignored even when I am right so I've learnt to influence people indirectly and smile secretly when they think their ideas are their own. That of course means sacrificing the pat on the back that comes with a good idea.

I'm still curious about your ideas concerning Jamaica.

[tp6626]

Think I may have posted in here before, but...

I think anyone is capable of changing the world, but that INTJ's are better equiped to do so.

The general idea involves 3 steps

1. Envisage the desired final outcome (e.g. 'World Peace')
2. Work out what needs to happen or be done to achieve that outcome
3. Implement the pre-planned stages

The stages may take hours, weeks, years or decades; it all depends what you are trying to achieve.

You may also need to monitor / control your plan. That is, account for changes or unknowns that come to the fore and require a change to the plan.

It really isn't rocket science. Just requires deep analytic thought, planning and contingency planning, belief, effort, patience and tenacity. (All INTJ strong points).

So the first step is basically deciding jut what you want to do? ;)

[PeterIMC]

Think I may have posted in here before, but...

I think anyone is capable of changing the world, but that INTJ's are better equiped to do so.

The general idea involves 3 steps

1. Envisage the desired final outcome (e.g. 'World Peace')
2. Work out what needs to happen or be done to achieve that outcome
3. Implement the pre-planned stages

The stages may take hours, weeks, years or decades; it all depends what you are trying to achieve.

You may also need to monitor / control your plan. That is, account for changes or unknowns that come to the fore and require a change to the plan.

It really isn't rocket science. Just requires deep analytic thought, planning and contingency planning, belief, effort, patience and tenacity. (All INTJ strong points).

So the first step is basically deciding jut what you want to do? ;)

The thing that is conspicuously missing in your plan is the human interaction that is required. That's the main challenge, all the other stuff is relatively easy.

[tp6626]

The thing that is conspicuously missing in your plan is the human interaction that is required. That's the main challenge, all the other stuff is relatively easy.
That is indeed the biggest hurdle, but it comes under step two. Work out what you need to do in order to achieve your goals. "How to win friends and influence people", anyone???

[BananaKT]

"How to Win Friends and Influence People" was written IMO with the intention of messing with the INTJ mind. None of the strategies in that book would come off as sincere if I attempted them and really in order to control people they must BELIEVE that you are sincere.

[PeterIMC]

"How to Win Friends and Influence People" was written IMO with the intention of messing with the INTJ mind. None of the strategies in that book would come off as sincere if I attempted them and really in order to control people they must BELIEVE that you are sincere.

It helps to really be sincere. I found that being honest and to the point helps. Stating your intentions is also very helpful.

Besides all that,.. make sure you´re always in a superior position. Doesn't have to be much superior, but a little does help. This is not easy to achieve, especially when you´re young and haven't proven anything yet. But it is possible.

If you´re in the inferior position, you'll get little done with anybody. That's just a fact of life.

[BananaKT]

If you´re in the inferior position, you'll get little done with anybody. That's just a fact of life.

I agree. Also, always be ready to make a trade. It's true nothing is for free.

On the other hand an inferior position can distract unwanted attention but be careful of who is your superior. Keep them happy so that you will benefit from their protection because you'll need it if you are trying to institute change. Change is an enormous threat to people who all ready invested in the status quo.

[PeterIMC]

that's why small steps are more effective.

[tp6626]

"How to Win Friends and Influence People" was written IMO with the intention of messing with the INTJ mind. None of the strategies in that book would come off as sincere if I attempted them and really in order to control people they must BELIEVE that you are sincere.
My prior suggestion was sarcasm, by the way. In case you didn't pick up on it?

How to win friends and influence people, IMO, is not the way to go. There are indeed better, and more sincere ways...

[BananaKT]

I suspected but couldn't resist knocking the book.

[vertex]

The thing that is conspicuously missing in your plan is the human interaction that is required. That's the main challenge, all the other stuff is relatively easy.

fully agreed

i could propel my company in the top 5 advertising agencies in belgium im sure of it...but the amount of people you have to talk to...ugh - just thinking of it just gets me tired and annoyed.

im just teaching other people how to do it and implemented a CRM so i can follow what they are doing. easier.





vertex added to this post, 3 minutes and 44 seconds later...

"How to Win Friends and Influence People" was written IMO with the intention of messing with the INTJ mind. None of the strategies in that book would come off as sincere if I attempted them and really in order to control people they must BELIEVE that you are sincere.

i think youre wrong

that book helped me to communicate with others on a different level. i had NO IDEA before that book that the best way to win people over was to get them talking about THEM.

dale carnegie is a genius imo

getting people to talk about themselves is such a low effort that i can live with it, but only if it can make me money or give me something i desire.

all it takes is a "oh really" "mmmh" "i see" placed here and there
and a clever "so why is that" "why did you do that"

also erickson taught us trance words...which also come in handy

good stuff

[BananaKT]

i think youre wrong

that book helped me to communicate with others on a different level. i had NO IDEA before that book that the best way to win people over was to get them talking about THEM.

dale carnegie is a genius imo

getting people to talk about themselves is such a low effort that i can live with it, but only if it can make me money or give me something i desire.

all it takes is a "oh really" "mmmh" "i see" placed here and there
and a clever "so why is that" "why did you do that"

also erickson taught us trance words...which also come in handy

good stuff

How am I wrong?

Dale Carnegie's method is not effective in developing true friendship or influencing people over the long term. The minute you let your charm slip they will interpret it as a betrayal and your influence over them will be lost. Therefore a consistent charming appearance is necessary which is an unreasonable strain for many INTJs.

Furthermore, Dale Carnegie is not proposing that you pretend to listen to your target. Instead, he wants you to really empathize. I suspect many INTJs though they may understand the targets situation, they do not empathize with it because INTJs generally divorce problems from feelings. I contend that continued use of this pretence in fact, does damage to the INTJs own psyche which needs a healthy consistency of thought and action like any other.

I am aware that many have used Carnegie successfully in sales -- a field that consists largely of short term, intermittent, individuals interactions. Individual interactions were exactly Carnegie's target. However, this thread discusses changing the world, a much grander scale and Carnegie appears limited in that regard. Perhaps, you can explain how Carnegie could be applied at that level.

Your use of clever interjections and trance words appear to be more Machiavellian than Carnegie-esque.

[vertex]

How am I wrong?

Dale Carnegie's method is not effective in developing true friendship or influencing people over the long term. The minute you let your charm slip they will interpret it as a betrayal and your influence over them will be lost. Therefore a consistent charming appearance is necessary which is an unreasonable strain for many INTJs.

Furthermore, Dale Carnegie is not proposing that you pretend to listen to your target. Instead, he wants you to really empathize. I suspect many INTJs though they may understand the targets situation, they do not empathize with it because INTJs generally divorce problems from feelings. I contend that continued use of this pretence in fact, does damage to the INTJs own psyche which needs a healthy consistency of thought and action like any other.

I am aware that many have used Carnegie successfully in sales -- a field that consists largely of short term, intermittent, individuals interactions. Individual interactions were exactly Carnegie's target. However, this thread discusses changing the world, a much grander scale and Carnegie appears limited in that regard. Perhaps, you can explain how Carnegie could be applied at that level.

Your use of clever interjections and trance words appear to be more Machiavellian than Carnegie-esque.

You also have to understand that carnegie was a successful speaker at the time, in an age where most people are religious, and manipulation would be considered carreer suicide.

Therefore in his book he has to make the people believe that its important to be "genuine"... however what he suggests is pure manipulation, as being geniune wouldnt require further explaination - so why is it that he goes step by step to say how to make yourself likeable? right. because he is actually suggesting manipulation.

Mirroring language and behaviour is something people who like eachother do automatically btw - the only science behind it is that someone reverse engineered it. Same goes for being interested in someone else. Friends are interested in eachother. by being first in asking questions about one another and takign an interest in their interests, it simply gives the idea in the other person that you are his friend/trustee/whatever you want to call it.

[BananaKT]

I must admit I have not read Carnegie in many many years and I agree that his techniques are manipulative. An argument can be made that all human interactions have a degree of manipulation.

My objection to Carnegie is that while attempting to influence another, your own personality must be masked. He never speaks to a time when you can unmask, leaving the reader to assume that this charade must continue indefinitely. In my experience masks eventually do great harm to the wearer when the time comes for reveal. How does one gain influence without eventual self-destruction following Carnegie's method?

I don't question the effectiveness of body language and suggestive skills but can't these skills be used effectively without creating a fake positive persona? If I wanted to have a hold over a large audience like Carnegie did, I would prefer to influence indirectly through control over a naturally charming personality. It leaves me free to be who I am and places the other person in the position of risk. I can't imagine a lifetime of smiling, checking that my body language is not dominant and pretending to listen when I couldn't care less. I think the greater skill is finding true common ground and not playing to fantasies for more than the short term.

I think INTJ personalities have a natural air of mystery which others can find mesmerizing. The thing is we aren't often motivated to take advantage of it. We like to speak of ruling the world but really we just want to be in our own world.

[vertex]

We like to speak of ruling the world but really we just want to be in our own world.

Isn't that why we want to feel like the ruler of it?
I think you hit the nail on the head.

[Karamazov]

I guess I'll find out one way or the other.