George Bush and george Costanzo

[md21017md]

I was recently thinking of the Seinfeld episode where George started doing the opposit of his first thought.

Seem like maybe Bush should try this. I can't imagine how 1 person could so successfully screw up every decision he has had to make.

I was a die hard repub, but GW has really soured me on the party. I keep hearing people talk of Obama (not that I will vote for him) has no experiance? Well, Bush had a ton (supposedly) and look at the mess he made?

Can anyone think of a president that has done a worse job than Bush?

Is there anyone that thinks he has done a good job?

[TheLastMohican]

Presidents tend not to be total failures or successes. I can easily think of presidents that have been far worse than Bush is specific areas: Carter, for example, was an economic disaster, and Buchanan was a poster boy for political irresponsibility. I think the all-too-common claim that Bush is the worst president in history reeks of contemporary hysteria that tends to disappear after a decade or so. My guess is that 30 years from now he will be viewed as more scandalous (as his cabinet members write tell-all books and give deathbed confessions) but also more correct in his broader decisions concerning the war and to a lesser extent the economy, mainly for his initial tax cuts. My current opinion is that he has done a moderately good job, and his unpopularity is overblown due to enthusiasm. His Supreme Court nominations were probably his best moments (as far as I am concerned).

[md21017md]

I agree with you in that most past presidents only had 1 or 2 really bad or good issues that determined thier popularity. GW went from the highest approval rating (right after 9/11 when he just entered office) to the lowest. With this guy, it seems like every decision he's made has been the wrong one - literally had he pulled a George C and dont the opposit.........

I just can't think of 1 thing in 8 years this guy has done right - keeping in mind I was a lifelong rebub before he came to office.

[Lights]

I think George W. Bush is the best thing ever...for the Democratic Party. Part of me wants McCain and Palin to win this next election because I am certain that would lead to the complete disintegration of the Republican party. This is a great time to be a Democrat with such a horrible Republican president, terrible Republican candidates, and eight years of scandals and scams among the Republicans in Congress. Honestly, nothing that Democrats could have done would have been as effective as what Republicans have done to themselves by voting in such idiots. This Thursday is going to the pinnacle point where Republicans watch Palin babble nonsensically in the debate and yet vote her to be a 72 year-old's heart beat away from being President. I have to give the Republican party dibs for finding somebody dumber than Bush and putting her a position where she could be the next President. The whole Republican party needs to pull a George Costanza.

[md21017md]

"I have to give the Republican party dibs for finding somebody dumber than Bush and putting her a position where she could be the next President. "

I mean WTF????

The sad fact is that Obama is not of the ability to fix the mess we are in should he get elected (not that I think Mccain is). It just seems like it's time to throw all thier asses out and start over.

Maybe as you've pointed out, it's not Bush (or Mccain/Palin's) fault so much as the people that elected them - again, and again - and soon to be (maybe) (hopfully not) again.

[Lights]

The sad fact is that Obama is not of the ability to fix the mess we are in should he get elected (not that I think Mccain is). It just seems like it's time to throw all thier asses out and start over.

What warrant do you base that claim on? Is it a programmed conception that he isn't experienced enough or because he doesn't fall in line with your personal conceptions of how to best get out of this mess?

But it doesn't matter to me. It's win-win for the Democrats this election. We either take the Presidency or watch the Republican party go down in flames.

[md21017md]

I don't think he has the experiance or knowledge to fix this mess, especially in 1 or at best 2 terms. I think GW created a mess that we may not see fixed in our lifetimes. I think this is of such a scale, it could be a devistating blow to the US, maybe to the point of knocking us out of being a world leader. We are the undeniable military leader to the world, our achilies heel is our financial dependancy

[Karamazov]

I still don't understand how people still play the "experience" card, especially with the current dynamic between the candidates of both parties. It nullifies the issue in my opinion.

Colloquially, it comes down to just two choices: one candidate who you know won't be that different from our current president, or a candidate who may or may not be that bad.

Carter, for example, was an economic disaster, and Buchanan was a poster boy for political irresponsibility.

He inherited such blow back from previous administrations. However, he wasn't that great, in so far as yielding any results from the goals he outlined. One thing he can be credited for though, is addressing issues that had yet to be of any interest from past presidents, such as the Israeli and Palestinian dilemma.

He was the first (and so far only president), to address the country's penchant for "self-indulgence and consumption", especially within the context of the looming problem of oil being a limited resource. Apparently, people didn't like that. He was panned by the media for even suggesting that words like "sacrifice" would ever be applicable to citizens in the U.S. And thenceforth, since the B-movie actor from California ascended to the presidency, the maxim "the American way of life in not negotiable" was adopted.

[TheLastMohican]

He inherited such blow back from previous administrations.

Right...he inherited the "misery index," which basically was what got him elected. Unfortunately he left it far higher than he found it.

One thing he can be credited for though, is addressing issues that had yet to be of any interest from past presidents, such as the Israeli and Palestinian dilemma.

True. That was a strength of his.

[Lights]

I don't think he has the experiance or knowledge to fix this mess, especially in 1 or at best 2 terms.

Well that is your opinion. It is also a highly programmed one since that is pretty much how every single McCain ad ends. I don't take my advice from a Bush clone.

I think GW created a mess that we may not see fixed in our lifetimes. I think this is of such a scale, it could be a devistating blow to the US, maybe to the point of knocking us out of being a world leader. We are the undeniable military leader to the world, our achilies heel is our financial dependancy

Yup, the American superpower is on its knees right now.

[md21017md]

Well that is your opinion. It is also a highly programmed one since that is pretty much how every single McCain ad ends. I don't take my advice from a Bush clone.

It's not programmed because I don't pay attention to the adds, I do not like McCain any more than Bush. You can call it opinion, but I think in 4 years we will see that not much has changed - at least as a result of the administratio's policies.

[Karamazov]

Right...he inherited the "misery index," which basically was what got him elected. Unfortunately he left it far higher than he found it.

Economically, he was poison, I agree. Yet, many of the problems that he addressed were offset from previous actions implemented by past administrations. I just don't care for how Carter and Clinton became such a veritable flame for moth-like conservatives to explain the ills of the world.

[TheLastMohican]

Economically, he was poison, I agree. Yet, many of the problems that he addressed were offset from previous actions implemented by past administrations. I just don't care for how Carter and Clinton became such a veritable flame for moth-like conservatives to explain the ills of the world.

Much of Clinton's flack seems to be leftover contemporary hype, just like what Bush is getting now in its more extreme forms (like the idea that he is the worst president ever). As far as real history goes, I don't think he was so bad. Carter, on the other hand, was...epic. Some things will never be completely forgotten.

[PHS Philip]

We've had frigging Jackson and Grant. Bush may achieve their level, though (we'll spend the next 2 or 3 generations paying off his debt, for instance)


FWIW, McCain doesn't have the experience with his new positions to work on them well either (wasn't he bragging about how anti regulation he was a month or two ago? Now he has ads saying how much more pro regulation he is than Obama :rolleyes:)

By the way, can we set up some sort of escape plan in case McCain gets elected and dies? Maybe a system for our overseas members to harbor the fleeing US members?

[Karamazov]

Much of Clinton's flack seems to be leftover contemporary hype, just like what Bush is getting now in its more extreme forms (like the idea that he is the worst president ever). As far as real history goes, I don't think he was so bad. Carter, on the other hand, was...epic. Some things will never be completely forgotten.

Explain "epic".

By the way, can we set up some sort of escape plan in case McCain gets elected and dies? Maybe a system for our overseas members to harbor the fleeing US members?

I think there was a word for that....Canada, I believe?

[TheLastMohican]

FWIW, McCain doesn't have the experience with his new positions to work on them well either (wasn't he bragging about how anti regulation he was a month or two ago? Now he has ads saying how much more pro regulation he is than Obama :rolleyes:)

"This is madness!"

"This is politics."

Explain "epic".


I meant that it really stuck out, and still does. Unlike many other things that are quickly forgotten despite being big news at one time, Carter's track record (in economics) is still remembered as a low point, and will be for a long time.

[Karamazov]

I meant that it really stuck out, and still does. Unlike many other things that are quickly forgotten despite being big news at one time, Carter's track record (in economics) is still remembered as a low point, and will be for a long time.

Oh, ok then. Fair Enough.

[zibber]

I was recently thinking of the Seinfeld episode where George started doing the opposit of his first thought.

Seem like maybe Bush should try this. I can't imagine how 1 person could so successfully screw up every decision he has had to make.

I was a die hard repub, but GW has really soured me on the party. I keep hearing people talk of Obama (not that I will vote for him) has no experiance? Well, Bush had a ton (supposedly) and look at the mess he made?

Can anyone think of a president that has done a worse job than Bush?

Is there anyone that thinks he has done a good job?

"Bush" is only the face of the administration.