The other ENFs

[NeonTetra]

Burning question: What do INTJs think about ENFJs (romantically and non-romantically)? There have been a couple of guys I've been attracted to that I'm positive were INTJ (one was taken :(, the other was gay :(:().

I'm not trying to compete with my ENFP brethren, but ENFJs do the same things except we're on time (within 15 minutes or so :thumbsup:) and actually take our responsibilities seriously! I think that having Ni in common eases the communication ENFJs and INTJs and it has in my experiences. But us ENFJs keep getting beaten to the punch. Have your ENFJ experiences been positive, negative, neutral, or rare?

[Paul V]

My mother is an ENFJ. She drives me crazy. She's also very sensitive and overprotective. I suppose I could've done worse, and I'm not the easiest person to get along with, so I'd say they're pretty cool.

However, the perfect match for me would be an INFJ or an INFP. If I hear one more person telling me I need to socialise more, I'll scream and punch them in the face.

[The Rose]

Burning question: What do INTJs think about ENFJs (romantically and non-romantically)? There have been a couple of guys I've been attracted to that I'm positive were INTJ (one was taken :(, the other was gay :(:().

I'm not trying to compete with my ENFP brethren, but ENFJs do the same things except we're on time (within 15 minutes or so :thumbsup:) and actually take our responsibilities seriously! I think that having Ni in common eases the communication ENFJs and INTJs and it has in my experiences. But us ENFJs keep getting beaten to the punch. Have your ENFJ experiences been positive, negative, neutral, or rare?I could be attracted to an ENFJ, but I don't know how long I could put up with their faults.
Two perfectionists in the same relationship would be bad.

[NeonTetra]

I could be attracted to an ENFJ, but I don't know how long I could put up with their faults.
Two perfectionists in the same relationship would be bad.

Are ENFJ faults more egregious than other types' faults or is there something about ENFJ faults that rub you the wrong way particularly?

[The Many]

It depends on the ENFJ, I suppose. Most do however tend to be too idealistic to be able to very easy to get along with for a rational, either that or simply too emotional or touchy. I think I have met four ENFJs in my life - one is an extremely touchy/feely girl who at first was attracted to me but ended up hating my guts for no understandable reason. Another one was a (male) teacher who was very good, whilst yet another one is my boss, who is very much like this touchy/feely girl. She even edited a review I wrote (I write for a newspaper), claiming my opinions (not facts, mind, but opinions) were incorrect.

The fourth one was however probably the most beautiful person I have ever talked to, perhaps even more mentally than physically, a pity I never got to know her better than I did. So maybe there is some hope...

[logan235711]

I can relate to what alot of other people are saying. First, the ENFJ doesn't like to argue very much--they will put up with it for so long and then after that the ones that I've known end up finding it very tiring and don't enjoy it to the extent that many INTJs might desire it. Second, they are FJ, so if you try to argue something they feel strongly about, you can't. They ball up and become ultra protective not even wanting to discuss it many times. An INTJ wouldn't care too much, every topic is as viable and open for revision and discussion as anything else, so limiting which topics one can discuss and make mutual progress in is likely to be a thorn and maybe ultimate annoyance for many. I think it could work for an ENFJ who was more balanced in the T/F, or even lower in the J side.

To the question about faults, I think it is more of the notion that INTJs can be blunt in saying what they want, many NFs tend to take criticism personally (which is most often never how an INTJ intends it). Since INTJs tend to be very conscious of self-betterment in themselves and the one they are spending their time with, this can hit straight to the core of an ENFJ quickly and then in turn force the INTJ to have to 'work-around' the reactions of the ENFJ in order to get that progress moving along. This in turn may have the INTJ feeling that he or she is wasting more time on progress of one particular thing that he or she feels needs to be taken. So the annoyance of wasting time and sometimes 'effort' is something that an INTJ desperately wants to minimize.

Lastly, in personal experience with ENFJs I felt like I was limited in acting in all of the ways that I wanted to act. I enjoyed many aspects of their personality, such as trying to make others feel welcome (their warmness), open expressions of their feelings so I don't have to take time prying it out of them, and some of the ideas they come up with their active listening. But all of this seems to come in limited quantities for an INTJ who often times doesn't want to be limited by how he or she can think and experiment.

[The Rose]

Are ENFJ faults more egregious than other types' faults or is there something about ENFJ faults that rub you the wrong way particularly?You know what, I wouldn't have said that if I had realized you were an ENFJ. I'm sorry. I would have been more careful with my words if I had realized. Would you please forgive me?

I think each couple is unique. Regardless of what we say in response to your OP, you are an individual, and your friend is an individual. If you are attracted to each other, believe in each other, are good for each other, and can't live without each other, then type is the last thing to worry about. Carl Jung said, "Every individual is an exception to the rule." MBTI is what it is in theory, but we are humans, not robots! There is no predicting how 2 particular individuals are going to work out.

I am an INTJ/INFJ. I am married to an ISTP. We just celebrated our 25th anniversary. I have read many INTJs who say they could never be married to a P. Yet I have always been attracted to Ps. My J was very strong - too strong. I needed someone in my life from whom I could learn to relax a little bit. (That is not the same as marrying someone so you can change them; I wanted to change myself.)

Because I am NF in many ways, I don't think I could be married to an NF because of the perfectionism on both sides. I was too strong of a perfectionist. I was attracted to someone who could help me relax.

Here is an excellent site that discusses the strengths and weaknesses of each type
(The weaknesses are down at the bottom of the page.):
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[NeonTetra]

I can relate to what alot of other people are saying. First, the ENFJ doesn't like to argue very much--they will put up with it for so long and then after that the ones that I've known end up finding it very tiring and don't enjoy it to the extent that many INTJs might desire it.

I see this as a study in compromise. I don't like to argue/debate just for the sake of doing it. If I'm doing it I'm trying to learn something or it's a subject I feel passionate about. If INTJs like to do it as a recreational activity, I can tell you right now that's not my idea of fun. But do you think this is a fault or just a personality preference?

Second, they are FJ, so if you try to argue something they feel strongly about, you can't.

Hey, I thought we didn't like to argue!! :laugh:

They ball up and become ultra protective not even wanting to discuss it many times. An INTJ wouldn't care too much, every topic is as viable and open for revision and discussion as anything else, so limiting which topics one can discuss and make mutual progress in is likely to be a thorn and maybe ultimate annoyance for many. I think it could work for an ENFJ who was more balanced in the T/F, or even lower in the J side.

With me, I don't open up my deeply held convictions as a topic of discussion. I'm very protective of them and yes, a criticism of them is like criticizing me. I've probably thought about them a lot and I have the sense to realize not everyone may agree with me about them (as is their right not to), so the convictions themselves are not open to discussion. I don't separate and detach these things from me as a thinker may be inclined to do, which makes them more personal.

To the question about faults, I think it is more of the notion that INTJs can be blunt in saying what they want, many NFs tend to take criticism personally (which is most often never how an INTJ intends it). Since INTJs tend to be very conscious of self-betterment in themselves and the one they are spending their time with, this can hit straight to the core of an ENFJ quickly and then in turn force the INTJ to have to 'work-around' the reactions of the ENFJ in order to get that progress moving along. This in turn may have the INTJ feeling that he or she is wasting more time on progress of one particular thing that he or she feels needs to be taken. So the annoyance of wasting time and sometimes 'effort' is something that an INTJ desperately wants to minimize.

Is this a something that INTJs experience equally with most NFs or is it something particularly about ENFJs?

Lastly, in personal experience with ENFJs I felt like I was limited in acting in all of the ways that I wanted to act. I enjoyed many aspects of their personality, such as trying to make others feel welcome (their warmness), open expressions of their feelings so I don't have to take time prying it out of them, and some of the ideas they come up with their active listening. But all of this seems to come in limited quantities for an INTJ who often times doesn't want to be limited by how he or she can think and experiment.

I think it would be unfair on the ENFJ's part to stop the flow of ideas if it's not degenerating into a intellectual pissing contest (which I've seen happen and becomes counterproductive). Admittedly, I sometimes have a problem distinguishing this from actual arguing, but I'm able to tell if people are being good-natured about it so I leave it be. How was the ENFJ in question limiting you? Were they truly doing it or did you just feel like they were? If they were, did they explain why they did it?

You know what, I wouldn't have said that if I had realized you were an ENFJ. I'm sorry. I would have been more careful with my words if I had realized. Would you please forgive me?

No need to apologize! :) I was just trying to figure out what exactly it is about the ENFJ personality that makes you feel that way. Perhaps it's the insistence on talking about how you feel?;)

[orange]

How was the ENFJ in question limiting you? Were they truly doing it or did you just feel like they were? If they were, did they explain why they did it?

In conversations we, as intj, are limited by what the ENFJ is willing to talk about without getting hurt and protective about how they feel about a topic. As already discussed, INTJs like to go way past that point. We like to analyze it, figure out why it is a sensitive topic, and if after analysis we think you are wrong and use logic to tell why we think that (cause we would) you lock up in hurt/protective mode. Nothing good comes from hurt/protective mode.

The bottom line is that we have to be careful what we talk about around you instead of being able to talk about anything we want to because the ENFJ may take offence to it and lock up ending the conversation and quite possible hurting the relationship (friend or otherwise).

Granted, a well developed INTJ will probally realize these things quickly, get over it, and avoid those topics and find something else to talk about unless topic X needs to be corrected for that persons own good no matter the cost.

[Firelie]

Most of my experiences with ENFJ's have been neutral/negative. I've only known a few ENFJ's, and while they're fun to hang out with sometimes and I don't mind being friends with them, I'd never ever consider dating someone with that personality type. They have their positive aspects, of course, but the negative ones have far outweigh the positives for me.

[The Rose]

...No need to apologize! :) I was just trying to figure out what exactly it is about the ENFJ personality that makes you feel that way. Perhaps it's the insistence on talking about how you feel?;)I had an ENFJ boss. I loved him. I loved the way he cared about my feelings. My biggest problem is that I think 2 perfectionists will eventually come up with 2 different definitions of perfection. It just seems like there would be a lot of clashing, and maybe too much depression to go around.

[terencec]

The bottom line is that we have to be careful what we talk about around you instead of being able to talk about anything we want to because the ENFJ may take offence to it and lock up ending the conversation and quite possible hurting the relationship (friend or otherwise).


In my limit experience, all the women are that way. So, I think "most but not all" the women are that way. It is because most girls are 'F' type I think.

For most men, visual is the most important. If she is attractive (lust, not rational), I would like to know her more. I do like ENF/TJ giving that I "like" her in the first sight.

[NeonTetra]

In conversations we, as intj, are limited by what the ENFJ is willing to talk about without getting hurt and protective about how they feel about a topic. As already discussed, INTJs like to go way past that point. We like to analyze it, figure out why it is a sensitive topic, and if after analysis we think you are wrong and use logic to tell why we think that (cause we would) you lock up in hurt/protective mode. Nothing good comes from hurt/protective mode.

The bottom line is that we have to be careful what we talk about around you instead of being able to talk about anything we want to because the ENFJ may take offence to it and lock up ending the conversation and quite possible hurting the relationship (friend or otherwise).

Hmmm. How do you tell someone their feelings are wrong or illogical? I can see if you don't understand their logic, but it doesn't mean it's illogical. Feeling is values based reasoning. Articulating values is difficult to do.

There are so many topics to discuss, why zero in on the one(s) that someone is sensitive about? There are oversensitive people that you can't talk about much of anything with so I'm not referring to them. Even I can't hold a decent conversation with them. Is the point of the rigorous analysis to understand the mechanics of the other person or to satisfy your curiosity? If it's to satisfy your curiosity, how do you go about finding the information you want? Do you think people sense they're being dissected and shut off?

In my limit experience, all the women are that way. So, I think "most but not all" the women are that way. It is because most girls are 'F' type I think.

Yeah, that's what I'm trying to figure out. How much of this is ENFJ and how much of it is Feeling regardless of type.

[Solaris]

Hmmm. How do you tell someone their feelings are wrong or illogical? I can see if you don't understand their logic, but it doesn't mean it's illogical. Feeling is values based reasoning. Articulating values is difficult to do.

There are so many topics to discuss, why zero in on the one(s) that someone is sensitive about? There are oversensitive people that you can't talk about much of anything with so I'm not referring to them. Even I can't hold a decent conversation with them. Is the point of the rigorous analysis to understand the mechanics of the other person or to satisfy your curiosity? If it's to satisfy your curiosity, how do you go about finding the information you want? Do you think people sense they're being dissected and shut off?



Yeah, that's what I'm trying to figure out. How much of this is ENFJ and how much of it is Feeling regardless of type.

You are proving the NTs' point for them. I have always disliked that it's "unacceptable" to question somebody's feelings. F types value their emotions, fine. T types value their thoughts. People question our ideas and thoughts all the time, and this is fine and acceptable (we even do this to ourselves). I find that this is an unbalanced practice. However, I don't really see a way around it, because Fs and Ts must interact.

For me, I question people because I want to understand them. I also want them to understand themselves and grow. I question people because I don't think anyone should be complacent with their beliefs. It's not malicious ( I don't think most NTs are malicious in this behavior), but it's often perceived that way.

Yes, there are plenty of topics to discuss, but I (personally) prefer to discuss the ones which are actually important to the person with whom I am conversing. Therefore, if that person is an F type, I'm probably going to end up discussing "feeling" topics, but trying to understand them through rationalizing them.

[NeonTetra]

You are proving the NTs' point for them. I have always disliked that it's "unacceptable" to question somebody's feelings. F types value their emotions, fine. T types value their thoughts. People question our ideas and thoughts all the time, and this is fine and acceptable (we even do this to ourselves). I find that this is an unbalanced practice. However, I don't really see a way around it, because Fs and Ts must interact.

I didn't say that you couldn't question someone's feelings, I said values based reasoning (feelings, emotions, whatever) is harder to articulate than impersonal reasoning. I can say I don't drink Pepsi because I don't like the way it tastes. Unless you're measuring my taste buds and then you'll just have to be satisfied with the explanation that I don't like the taste of it. I can say it's too sweet or not sweet enough or too bubbly, but those are all values based reasons. How can you quantify things like that? They're very individualized and personal.

I remember reading somewhere on one of these MBTI forums that it's harder to hurt someone's thoughts than to hurt their feelings. All I'm saying is that when you go to probe someone's feelings, you have to be more careful that you don't tear up the flooring and then get kicked out of the house. There's a way to get the information you want and not destroy at the same time. I'm sure you know what it's like to be emotionally exposed to someone or if not imagine what it's like. It's a scary and revealing, like someone poking at a raw nerve. Personally, I don't like it and I try to keep it at a minimum. Hence, why I can get prickly when my deeper feelings and I feel like they're being unduly criticized. I'd probably have to trust someone a lot to do that.

But I feel the need to make the disclaimer that all feelers aren't like this. Some may feel comfortable enough to have their true feelings criticized. More power to them. I'm not the type of person that needs to be handled with kid gloves, but I don't want to get trampled either. I'm a :square: when it comes to this.

[The Rose]

In my limit experience, all the women are that way. So, I think "most but not all" the women are that way. It is because most girls are 'F' type I think.

For most men, visual is the most important. If she is attractive (lust, not rational), I would like to know her more. I do like ENF/TJ giving that I "like" her in the first sight.
I tried to find some statistics posted online, but couldn't so I'll just have to quote a book, Do What You Are by Barron and Tieger.
I don't know what country you're from.
I only have stats for the United States.
75% of the American population is Extraverted.
75% of the American population are Sensors.
The American population is split 50% - 50% - T & F. Two-thirds of men prefer T; two-thirds of women prefer F.
The American population is split 50% - 50% - J & P.

One-third of women prefer T; that's a pretty good-sized percentage.

[NeonTetra]

I tried to find some statistics posted online, but couldn't so I'll just have to quote a book, Do What You Are by Barron and Tieger.
I don't know what country you're from.
I only have stats for the United States.
75% of the American population is Extraverted.
75% of the American population are Sensors.
The American population is split 50% - 50% - T & F. Two-thirds of men prefer T; two-thirds of women prefer F.
The American population is split 50% - 50% - J & P.

One-third of women prefer T; that's a pretty good-sized percentage.

I've got some different statistics from CAPT. They say the E/I population is roughly equal and the number of intuitives in the population is probably around 30%.

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Estimated Frequencies of Types - CAPT.org

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20025HO.pdf (application/pdf Object)

[The Rose]

So one-quarter to one-third of the female population prefers T.

[logan235711]

Woo-hoo!

[The Rose]

Glad that made somebody happy!

[terencec]

Yes, there are plenty of topics to discuss, but I (personally) prefer to discuss the ones which are actually important to the person with whom I am conversing. Therefore, if that person is an F type, I'm probably going to end up discussing "feeling" topics, but trying to understand them through rationalizing them.

I also tried to do so but I fail. I believe some women (or men to be political correct!) can feel one way and feel total different way later without "any (good) reason" I think. There may be a "reason" but "the reason/logic" is beyond anyone to understand except themselves. The reason depends on their own experience (and/or) preference (and/or) mood at the moment ... So, there is impossible to analysis it. However, I still cannot stop doing it!

[Paul V]

I also tried to do so but I fail. I believe some women (or men to be political correct!) can feel one way and feel total different way later without "any (good) reason" I think. There may be a "reason" but "the reason/logic" is beyond anyone to understand except themselves. The reason depends on their own experience (and/or) preference (and/or) mood at the moment ... So, there is impossible to analysis it. However, I still cannot stop doing it!

"Insanity is doing the same and expecting different results." -Can't remember who said it.

[terencec]

"Insanity is doing the same and expecting different results." -Can't remember who said it.

There is no definite answer for analysis someone feeling. Just like in math, there are so many variables and not enough equations to solve all the variables. But at least, one can still see the relationship between the variables. When you know that person better maybe, the equations will be solvable some day! I will check if I miss any "equation" but usually there are still not enough equations how hard I tried.

[terencec]

Burning question: What do INTJs think about ENFJs (romantically and non-romantically)? There have been a couple of guys I've been attracted to that I'm positive were INTJ (one was taken :(, the other was gay :(:().

I'm not trying to compete with my ENFP brethren, but ENFJs do the same things except we're on time (within 15 minutes or so :thumbsup:) and actually take our responsibilities seriously! I think that having Ni in common eases the communication ENFJs and INTJs and it has in my experiences. But us ENFJs keep getting beaten to the punch. Have your ENFJ experiences been positive, negative, neutral, or rare?

Just wondering, what do you like about INTJ and what don't you like about INTJ?

If I am a girl, I may not like myself because I am too quite and self concious if someone I don't know, I am too passive and look too cold (even though I am not cold after one knows me). But who cares!

[HeterodoxRobot]

Burning question: What do INTJs think about ENFJs (romantically and non-romantically)?

I'm not trying to compete with my ENFP brethren, but ENFJs do the same things except we're on time (within 15 minutes or so :thumbsup:) and actually take our responsibilities seriously!
Actually, that's precisely what you are doing.

I cannot stand female intrasexual competition. Who cares what other girls might be like, or look like, ultimately, they are not you, and you, will never be anyone but yourself.

I suggest you positively focus on who you are, as opposed to negatively focusing on who you are not.

[INTJgal]

i :lovestruck: ENFJs. (the good versions!)

[mind_wander]

Burning question: What do INTJs think about ENFJs (romantically and non-romantically)? There have been a couple of guys I've been attracted to that I'm positive were INTJ (one was taken :(, the other was gay :(:().

I'm not trying to compete with my ENFP brethren, but ENFJs do the same things except we're on time (within 15 minutes or so :thumbsup:) and actually take our responsibilities seriously! I think that having Ni in common eases the communication ENFJs and INTJs and it has in my experiences. But us ENFJs keep getting beaten to the punch. Have your ENFJ experiences been positive, negative, neutral, or rare?

I am happy this thread is made, actually; just found out, like today[its been like 2 month 1/2], although my ENFJ [male] team member is very on time, no doubt. The only negative side, I always wondering why there is this lack of focus or strategic directions? I doubled-checked this website: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

"An ENFJ who has not developed their Feeling side may have difficulty making good decisions, and may rely heavily on other people in decision-making processes. If they have not developed their Intuition, they may not be able to see possibilities, and will judge things too quickly based on established value systems or social rules, without really understanding the current situation. An ENFJ who has not found their place in the world is likely to be extremely sensitive to criticism, and to have the tendency to worry excessively and feel guilty. They are also likely to be very manipulative and controling with others.

In general, ENFJs are charming, warm, gracious, creative and diverse individuals with richly developed insights into what makes other people tick. This special ability to see growth potential in others combined with a genuine drive to help people makes the ENFJ a truly valued individual. As giving and caring as the ENFJ is, they need to remember to value their own needs as well as the needs of others."

This makes more sense, ENFJ's have difficulty making good decision and may rely heavily on other people in decision-making processes. I've noticed this habit from the first day, I couldn't pin point, if was just slacking or just joining the ride. Overall, its not a big problem, but needs that further strategic guidance, which is lacking. My ENFJ team member has asked me many questions, on how to approach certain complicated tasks, however I only can set it up, in terms of concepts. My job is not holding someone's elses hand through the entire process, instead guide him toward the right direction. Thats all I can do because each person's decision making is different, as opposed to the mentor decisions.

My frustrations would be, must used indepth detailed concepts, as opposed to other personality types, who can pick it up within a few minutes; it can be very draining, something I normally, don't like to be in. However, hey, its a life lesson on why things happened for a reasons. For example, talking with an ESTJ personality, its not very draining, but give slight detailed concepts can grasp it, very quickly.

As for the positive side, ENFP's are great with go and do it attitude! At least both sides are happy about something, give a task and someone will definitely try to attempt and do it :) If there is a problem, questions, etc. please report back to the INTJ.

[wolf]

I am completely incompatible with ENFJs. ENFPs are fun, INFJs are great (similar mindset, possibly closest to us INTJs), and INFPs are pretty cool. I much prefer Introverts, though.

[Gaius Baltar]

I can't stand ENFJs. My mother is an ENFJ, and I only talk to her 2 or 3 times a year. The frequency of our communication is my choice, not hers.

I'm not going to turn this into a personal dumping ground about how I interact with my mother, so I'll try to be brief. I find ENFJs to be manipulative, especially when it comes to feelings. I feel like I'm restricted as to what I can and can't talk about.

Having an intellectual conversation with an ENFJ is very hard. They just don't do well with hard logic. Trying to have an engaging conversation about something that matters is like talking to a brick wall at times. And yet, they can be as stubborn as I am. They won't move on a point or try to see my point of view, and yet they often don't respond so I have no clue as to why they disagree or if I'm even wasting my breath.

They have no clue that an INTJ likes his privacy. If they find out details about an INTJ's private life, they tend to babble these facts to everyone and anyone. Even if they know that doing so will piss off said INTJ.

ENFJs also have a horrible sense of humor. When they like you, they make fun of you. Sure, I can take a joke and have been known to make fun of people too. It's just that they come in and constantly dig on you, purposely trying to get a rise out of you.

That's just the tip of the iceberg, but should give you a pretty good picture as to why I can't stand them.

On the positive side, they're very good with people and they usually mean well with everything they do. But the negatives far outweigh the positives, unfortunately.

None of this is meant personally, of course. I do appreciate the fact that you're trying to understand INTJs, Neon.

[mind_wander]

I can't stand ENFJs. My mother is an ENFJ, and I only talk to her 2 or 3 times a year. The frequency of our communication is my choice, not hers.

I'm not going to turn this into a personal dumping ground about how I interact with my mother, so I'll try to be brief. I find ENFJs to be manipulative, especially when it comes to feelings. I feel like I'm restricted as to what I can and can't talk about.

Having an intellectual conversation with an ENFJ is very hard. They just don't do well with hard logic. Trying to have an engaging conversation about something that matters is like talking to a brick wall at times. And yet, they can be as stubborn as I am. They won't move on a point or try to see my point of view, and yet they often don't respond so I have no clue as to why they disagree or if I'm even wasting my breath.

They have no clue that an INTJ likes his privacy. If they find out details about an INTJ's private life, they tend to babble these facts to everyone and anyone. Even if they know that doing so will piss off said INTJ.

ENFJs also have a horrible sense of humor. When they like you, they make fun of you. Sure, I can take a joke and have been known to make fun of people too. It's just that they come in and constantly dig on you, purposely trying to get a rise out of you.

That's just the tip of the iceberg, but should give you a pretty good picture as to why I can't stand them.

On the positive side, they're very good with people and they usually mean well with everything they do. But the negatives far outweigh the positives, unfortunately.

None of this is meant personally, of course. I do appreciate the fact that you're trying to understand INTJs, Neon.

Yeah, I know what you mean. In the described there is clear, as a whistle; but they are very good with people to keep things moving, for an INTJ its kinda hard.

[Paul V]

I can't stand ENFJs. My mother is an ENFJ, and I only talk to her 2 or 3 times a year. The frequency of our communication is my choice, not hers.

I'm not going to turn this into a personal dumping ground about how I interact with my mother, so I'll try to be brief. I find ENFJs to be manipulative, especially when it comes to feelings. I feel like I'm restricted as to what I can and can't talk about.

Having an intellectual conversation with an ENFJ is very hard. They just don't do well with hard logic. Trying to have an engaging conversation about something that matters is like talking to a brick wall at times. And yet, they can be as stubborn as I am. They won't move on a point or try to see my point of view, and yet they often don't respond so I have no clue as to why they disagree or if I'm even wasting my breath.

They have no clue that an INTJ likes his privacy. If they find out details about an INTJ's private life, they tend to babble these facts to everyone and anyone. Even if they know that doing so will piss off said INTJ.

ENFJs also have a horrible sense of humor. When they like you, they make fun of you. Sure, I can take a joke and have been known to make fun of people too. It's just that they come in and constantly dig on you, purposely trying to get a rise out of you.

That's just the tip of the iceberg, but should give you a pretty good picture as to why I can't stand them.

On the positive side, they're very good with people and they usually mean well with everything they do. But the negatives far outweigh the positives, unfortunately.

None of this is meant personally, of course. I do appreciate the fact that you're trying to understand INTJs, Neon.

My mother is exactly like that, and as soon as I'm out of my house, my relationship with her will perhaps be the same way as yours.

I think what they have is the "Pedagogue" meter set on "Overprotective".

[NeonTetra]

Actually, that's precisely what you are doing.

I cannot stand female intrasexual competition. Who cares what other girls might be like, or look like, ultimately, they are not you, and you, will never be anyone but yourself.

I suggest you positively focus on who you are, as opposed to negatively focusing on who you are not.

Thanks for the detailed psychoanalysis.

If you hadn't noticed, I was specifically asking about ENFJ/INTJ interactions. The ENFP reference was made jokingly, as a nod to ENFP/INTJ relationships. But really, thanks for the armchair psychology.

Gaius: No worries. :) I started this thread for people to voice their experiences and I certainly didn't expect them to be all positive.

[OneBadMother]

I've never met an ENFJ in person, but to be frank the combination of Feeling and Judging sounds pretty frightening to me. Cold, calculating irrationality? Granted, ENFPs can be pretty manipulative too, but I imagine a J would be even better at it somehow.

[Paul V]

I've never met an ENFJ in person, but to be frank the combination of Feeling and Judging sounds pretty frightening to me. Cold, calculating irrationality? Granted, ENFPs can be pretty manipulative too, but I imagine a J would be even better at it somehow.

They are. And they certainly express their judgments about whatever comes their way. It annoys me deeply that they're openly even more critical than us, but their criticism lacks sense and/or logic. They are always saying how something/someone isn't right according to their opinion.

[HeterodoxRobot]

Thanks for the detailed psychoanalysis.

If you hadn't noticed, I was specifically asking about ENFJ/INTJ interactions. The ENFP reference was made jokingly, as a nod to ENFP/INTJ relationships. But really, thanks for the armchair psychology.

Gaius: No worries. :) I started this thread for people to voice their experiences and I certainly didn't expect them to be all positive.
Your sarcasm is duly noted. :thumbsup:

[niffer]

I've never met an ENFJ in person, but to be frank the combination of Feeling and Judging sounds pretty frightening to me. Cold, calculating irrationality? Granted, ENFPs can be pretty manipulative too, but I imagine a J would be even better at it somehow.

This is exactly the worst trait of a bitchy ENFJ. They make up rules which are spawned from their righteous moral values, that they apply to everyone on the planet, and they think that anyone that disagrees with them or simply doesn't give a shit is immoral and therefore evil. Healthy and sensible ENFJs nearly never do this though, I find.