INTJ may be extinct

[terencec]

I am a male INTJ. I have very hard time to find a friend.

Here is my conclusion. Most INTJ are cold (outside), introverted, rational. However, most girls like someone to support their emotional side without reason. Most INTJ focus on few specific knowledge, like computer which most girls do not care at all. Most INTJ are so passive that they don't initiate conversion.

Now, I think INTJ will be extinct soon because of that. Sure, there will be some INTJ babies but it will not be a lot. It is because I don't see how most INTJ find girls to get marry.

Of course, I assume that most INTJ child from INTJ parents. This assumption may not be true! But I hardly believe there are many INTJ child from both ESFP parents.

I really hope there are more NT type. This world will be better I think.

Sometimes, I feel quite sad to be an INTJ. it is almost impossible to attract the girl I like. They most likely think I am cold, arrogant, anti-social.

What do you think?

[The Rose]

Well, I understand why you would be feeling that way, but take heart. You can find the girl of your dreams.

MBTI type isn't the only thing that makes a person. You can always mature and make improvements. If you are cold, arrogant and anti-social those things can be improved. If you work on improving yourself, smiling more, being more friendly, and more gracious, instead of critical and judgmental, you will be much more pleasant to be around. When you are ready, the right girl will come along.

[vulcan]

You'll never find the girl of your dreams. But she may be 60% at best. Low ball it, man.

[cielo market]

Out of curiosity, how old are you? You sound quite young because your conclusions seem very hasty... maybe a bit inexperienced? Like Rose said, MBTI isn't the only thing that makes a person. INTJs are all about (self) improvements, right? :)

[Circe]

Believe me, from a female perspective INTJ males can be quite attractive. They're intelligent loners who won't treat a girl like crap and are intensely loyal. They may be socially awkward, but most can get past that with a little work.


I can't say the same for INTJ females, though. *sigh*

Also, although your personality type is influenced by your parents, it's perfectly possible from an INTJ to be born to non-INTJ parents. I know that my dad was.

[xtremegeek]

I am a male INTJ. I have very hard time to find a friend.

Here is my conclusion. Most INTJ are cold (outside), introverted, rational. However, most girls like someone to support their emotional side without reason. Most INTJ focus on few specific knowledge, like computer which most girls do not care at all. Most INTJ are so passive that they don't initiate conversion.

Now, I think INTJ will be extinct soon because of that. Sure, there will be some INTJ babies but it will not be a lot. It is because I don't see how most INTJ find girls to get marry.

Of course, I assume that most INTJ child from INTJ parents. This assumption may not be true! But I hardly believe there are many INTJ child from both ESFP parents.

I really hope there are more NT type. This world will be better I think.

Sometimes, I feel quite sad to be an INTJ. it is almost impossible to attract the girl I like. They most likely think I am cold, arrogant, anti-social.

What do you think?

1. You sound rather young and a little too pessimistic.
2. Some of the most ruthless dictators in history had NT personalities, so your comment about the world being better off if there were more NTs, is a tad off base.
3. You already know that your demeanor is scaring some girls off. A true INTJ would work to improve that which he finds most important to him. So if finding a female companion is that important to you, then work on improving your social skills.
4. AND MOST Important - there has yet to be any scientific proof which genetically links MBTI. There are no Dominant and Recessive genes for personality type. Personality is a combination of nature and nurture.

[melon]

You might have a point, but I don't think MBTI type is genetic. Nobody in my family, including extended family, is an INTJ (or an NT for that matter), but I am. In fact, most people that I know don't share their MBTI type with their parents.

[terencec]

Out of curiosity, how old are you? You sound quite young because your conclusions seem very hasty... maybe a bit inexperienced? Like Rose said, MBTI isn't the only thing that makes a person. INTJs are all about (self) improvements, right? :)

I just use myself as example. I am not asking to solve (my) "problems". But I don't see how most INTJ can have relationship with others easily. Most of time, I enjoy by myself to do my things I like. Most INTJ do. Sometimes, I think if not God "programmed" me to like girls, I will enjoy doing my things by myself all my life.

Why do you think my conclusion is hasty? (You may be right but I just want to see your point?) I agree that INTJ is about self improvements. Does it mean that change I->E, N->S? It is because I think if one is "INTJ", relationship with male or female is always difficult unless one acts differently from his/her INTJ type. Most women want emotional support, INTJ does not show emotion or support emotion. Most women do not impress the technical knowledgy. Most women care about jewellery, fashion clothes etc I am sorry to say that most women are not rational, they are emotional most of time I think. So, (INTJ) and women live in different world!

It is not only about girl. In general, I see INTJ takes things very serious, precise. cold personality (to outside but easy going to their friends), disregard authorities, it is realy hard to work in the business world. I see my character hurts me many times in the past until I have learned my lesson. Many coworkers have less technical skills but they do much better than me because of lacking people skills even I am in the technical field. I was against what my boss said if I was not agree. Now, I will just compromise.

I am not young but I am not old. I have been working for years as an engineer. My "problem" may not be INTJ only, it is because I am a foreigner as you can tell already.

Do you (INTJ) see the same problems (in work or relationship) or how you can deal with them?

[Paul V]

I think no-one mentioned this before. terencec, you're assuming that personality is a genetical hereditary trait. This is false. Personality can be influenced by some genetical traits (such as intelligence, hereditary diseases and looks), but it is mostly influenced by nurture and environment.

Look at it from this point of view:

Premises:

A) Natural Selection fosters Extroversion in order to improve the survival of the species (reproducing/working together/building societies).
B) Current trends foster Sensing above Intuiting, pushing people to enjoy the here and now, and obtain pleasure from their senses (look at the current marketing trends).
C) Ancient stereotypes foster women to use Feeling and men to use Thinking in order to make judgements (No brainer here).
D) Most young people are Perceiving, due to their carefree and rebellious nature, as well as placing more importance in obtaining information rather than Judging it (This is the most speculative of my statements).

A normal young girl will most likely be an ESFP. Our complete opposite.

Now, note that I haven't made any absolute statements. There are countless exceptions. However, you need to start using your intelligence to help you have realistic expectations. You need to use your capacities to discern the personality of the people surrounding you. You need to start applying your talents to the romantic field as well.

I could present you with a thousand witty quotes to support my statements, but I'll settle for this:

"Love is a battlefield."

And you know what you are? You're a Mastermind, a Strategist. You should be able to excel in all battlefields. If you don't, it means you lack either knowledge or experience. You have to learn more or put what you know into practice more often.

But most importantly, you need to understand that if you're determined to find someone who fulfills your expectations, then you will find it.

[terencec]

2. Some of the most ruthless dictators in history had NT personalities, so your comment about the world being better off if there were more NTs, is a tad off base.

Any tool can be used for good or evil. I still think NT is a good tool but one can use it for evil. In general, I prefer rational than emotional. However, even German is very rational, they did terrible things in the World War II.

4. AND MOST Important - there has yet to be any scientific proof which genetically links MBTI. There are no Dominant and Recessive genes for personality type. Personality is a combination of nature and nurture.

I hope you are right. I like to see we are living with rational people.

[terencec]

I think no-one mentioned this before. terencec, you're assuming that personality is a genetical hereditary trait. This is false. Personality can be influenced by some genetical traits (such as intelligence, hereditary diseases and looks), but it is mostly influenced by nurture and environment.

Look at it from this point of view:

Premises:

A) Natural Selection fosters Extroversion in order to improve the survival of the species (reproducing/working together/building societies).
B) Current trends foster Sensing above Intuiting, pushing people to enjoy the hear and now, and obtain pleasure from their senses (look at the current marketing trends).
C) Ancient stereotypes foster women to use Feeling and men to use Thinking in order to make judgements (No brainer here).
D) Most young people are Perceiving, due to their carefree and rebellious nature, as well as placing more importance in obtaining information rather than Judging it (This is the most speculative of my statements).

A normal young girl will most likely be an ESFP. Our complete opposite.

Now, note that I haven't made any absolute statements. There are countless exceptions. However, you need to start using your intelligence to help you have realistic expectations. You need to use your capacities to discern the personality of the people surrounding you. You need to start applying your talents to the romantic field as well.

I could present you with a thousand witty quotes to support my statements, but I'll settle for this:

"Love is a battlefield."

And you know what you are? You're a Mastermind, a Strategist. You should be able to excel in all battlefields. If you don't, it means you lack either knowledge or experience. You have to learn more or put what you know into practice more often.

But most importantly, you need to understand that if you're determined to find someone who fulfills your expectations, then you will find it.

I totally agree, a typical woman is completely opposite of "INTJ". That is the point I want to make!
That is why I have difficulty with women included my female boss in the past I think!

[Charlie Mc.]

I am finding more and more lately that emotional responses can be somewhat predictable. Treat it like an experiment and find out how to elicit certain responses in yourself and others. This will help you to meet others emotional needs without changing your NT nature. Part of INTJ is a drive to be competent right? Apply that drive to interpersonal relations and it will help alot. That has been my experience at least.

[Ryokurin]

I think you are having problems because you have made your decision and thus choosing to stand by it. You don't see a solution so after a while you assume that it does not exist, and this is not true its just going to take a ton of work that may take years.

Have you considered that you may be trying too hard? I admit that I'm in a similar boat (I'm turning 28 next month and I've gone on a total of 3 dates in my life). I've spent the past five years trying to break myself out of a shell and figure out what was wrong with me. What I figured out was that I was trying way too hard to get a relationship because I figured that was the thing to do. I can't tell you how many times I threw in the towel and just said I'm undatable and I better get used to being the third wheel as its what I'm going to be for the rest of my life. The funny thing is, however after I finally became indifferent to if I ever getting a relationship let alone a date then I finally saw options.

The problem was that my desperation was obvious. There are some things in life that the passion and dedication that an INTJ can put out really freaks people out, to put it lightly. People tend to look at it as "so what if he does get me, now what? is he going to be this dedicated to the relationship, or is he going to move to something else once hes tired of me?"

[The Rose]

I totally agree, a typical woman is completely opposite of "INTJ". That is the point I want to make!
That is why I have difficulty with women included my female boss in the past I think!I personally don't believe there is any such thing as a "typical woman".
You of all people should know that since you understand MBTI.
I'm pretty sure I've read that MBTI types are pretty evenly split 50-50 between males and females.
Besides, even if women were the opposite of INTJ - which they are not - but even if they were, that's not a problem because opposites attract!
Another bit of good news is that apparently there are many INTJ women who would prefer an INTJ mate, so I think you have a good chance of finding happiness.

Hang in there.

[Paul V]

I totally agree, a typical woman is completely opposite of "INTJ". That is the point I want to make!
That is why I have difficulty with women included my female boss in the past I think!

I fear your conclusion is wrong, as it has been pointed out by TheRose.

I didn't say that a "typical" or "common" woman was the opposite of an INTJ. I said that it's what society and nature encouraged. Young people go to extreme lengths in order to be accepted and fit in. Even if there are people who don't care about that, we cannot deny that a large majority of teenagers/young adults tend to mold their personalities to be accepted in a group.

One of the reasons why it's so hard to identify Introverts is because everyone needs to socialise, even if only when necessary. I's can fake Extroversion (to the unsuspecting eyes), but E's don't have a reason to pretend to be Introverts, unless they're acting.

It's very possible that an ESFP girl is actually an ISFP/J or an INFP/J in disguise. From experience, I can say that F and T are the hardest to fake, followed by S and N.

[The Rose]

...One of the reasons why it's so hard to identify Introverts is because everyone needs to socialise, even if only when necessary. I's can fake Extroversion (to the unsuspecting eyes), but E's don't have a reason to pretend to be Introverts, unless they're acting.

It's very possible that an ESFP girl is actually an ISFP/J or an INFP/J in disguise. From experience, I can say that F and T are the hardest to fake, followed by S and N.Very astute observation!

[Paul V]

Very astute observation!

Sarcasm is very hard to tell over the Internet, so I'm just going to assume you're being honest and say "Thanks a lot!" :)

[The Rose]

Sarcasm is very hard to tell over the Internet, so I'm just going to assume you're being honest and say "Thanks a lot!" :)Yes. I was honestly impressed.

[mind_wander]

terencec ,

I was took some time out and doubled-check what is INTJ compatiblity. It is said that the most compatible is ENTP and ENFP. But there are exceptions, ESTJ's, INFJ's[no.1 rarest-so be very gentle with this one], INTP's, ENTJ's, ISFJ's, etc. I given at least so thing to look forward too, also. You're not alone with this one, so don't be so sad about it. You first must build-up your own confidence back, if you don't do that, who want a man, who always insensitive, too cold and ignore everything. Yeah, it does fit the INTJ description; Self-confidence and knowledge is power. I hope this comment is helpful.

[terencec]

I fear your conclusion is wrong, as it has been pointed out by TheRose.

I didn't say that a "typical" or "common" woman was the opposite of an INTJ. I said that it's what society and nature encouraged. Young people go to extreme lengths in order to be accepted and fit in. Even if there are people who don't care about that, we cannot deny that a large majority of teenagers/young adults tend to mold their personalities to be accepted in a group.

One of the reasons why it's so hard to identify Introverts is because everyone needs to socialise, even if only when necessary. I's can fake Extroversion (to the unsuspecting eyes), but E's don't have a reason to pretend to be Introverts, unless they're acting.

It's very possible that an ESFP girl is actually an ISFP/J or an INFP/J in disguise. From experience, I can say that F and T are the hardest to fake, followed by S and N.

I see that E->I is much easier than I->E unless one is between I<->E. F->T and S->N are hard to fake too. I am very introverted and I could not see how I can be extroverted (fake) in short time.

My point is "very few girls" are compatible to INTJ for long term relationship. I see there are very few girls I really like to be with (but I would enjoy having sex with many girls just because of lust.) I believe most girls are very different from INTJ. I don't think it is easy for INTJ to communicate with most girls.

The biggest conflicts between INTJ and girls are 'T' and 'F', also the interests different.

Even the ESFJ are not typical girls in US, I would still say that many INTJ will have difficulty to communciate with girls because we think very differently.

[rwyatt365]

Just to throw in my $0.02; while most of the female population might find the INTJ male unapproachable and a relationship with him unsustainable, there are those brave souls that can and do make a leap and form long-term relationships with them (us). Some find the aloofness and (seeming) cold, analytical exterior a challenge to overcome. Some try to discover if there is a sweet, chocolaty center underneath the hard candy shell (sorry, I couldn't resist the M&M analogy - and BTW, there generally is). Some just "grok" us and can relate straight off the bat.

In any case, the odds are long and the success rate is somewhat low but "true love" is out there if you're willing to invest the time and energy in finding "the one".

[The Rose]

Dear Terence C,

I agree with everything everyone else has said. Along with them, I do not agree with your conclusions about the complete hereditary nature of MBTI. Both my parents are S types, yet both my sister and I are N types.

However, I do believe that over a large population sample, maybe 100 years ago before world travel became so common, one might have been able to generalize certain types of certain people groups. I have a theory that this is where the "national stereotypes" come from: the Thrifty Scotsman, the French Lover, etc.

Although I can't tell for sure, you appear to be quite young. Your INTJ traits appear to be getting the best of you, making you overly pessimistic about your life and your future. I have been trying to encourage you about that, yet you have not responded to me.

I will tell you outright, NOW would NOT be a good time for you to find the girl of your dreams. You are not ready for her yet. The problem with the laws of attraction is that you will attract someone to yourself who is on the same emotional level as yourself. If you are dark and pessimistic about yourself, you will attract someone to yourself who is similar to you. The problem comes as you grow and mature and become stable and happy. If your "friend" does not grow and mature along with you, pretty soon you are stuck with someone you can't stand. Of course, your "friend" could do the growing and you could do the staying the same, with the same outcome - you would no longer be compatible for each other. One would tire of the other. That is why it is so important to be as emotionally healthy and stable as you can before entering into a serious relationship. I have often heard it recommended, for instance, that a person should wait 5 years after a divorce or death of a spouse to start a serious relationship.

I love the line from Sleepless in Seattle. Annie's (Meg Ryan) brother, the psychologist, tells her the definition of love - granted it is a very INTP-type definition, but it does have some truth to it.
"When you are attracted to someone, it just means that your subconscious is attracted to their subconscious, subconsciously. So what we think of as fate is just 2 neuroses knowing they're a perfect match."

For these reasons, I suggested in post #2 that you work on yourself a little and become the best you that you can be, first, then go looking for the girl of your dreams and you will find her. If you are wise, you will take my advice.

[terencec]

Dear Terence C,

I agree with everything everyone else has said. Along with them, I do not agree with your conclusions about the complete hereditary nature of MBTI. Both my parents are S types, yet both my sister and I are N types.

However, I do believe that over a large population sample, maybe 100 years ago before world travel became so common, one might have been able to generalize certain types of certain people groups. I have a theory that this is where the "national stereotypes" come from: the Thrifty Scotsman, the French Lover, etc.

Although I can't tell for sure, you appear to be quite young. Your INTJ traits appear to be getting the best of you, making you overly pessimistic about your life and your future. I have been trying to encourage you about that, yet you have not responded to me.

I will tell you outright, NOW would NOT be a good time for you to find the girl of your dreams. You are not ready for her yet. The problem with the laws of attraction is that you will attract someone to yourself who is on the same emotional level as yourself. If you are dark and pessimistic about yourself, you will attract someone to yourself who is similar to you. The problem comes as you grow and mature and become stable and happy. If your "friend" does not grow and mature along with you, pretty soon you are stuck with someone you can't stand. Of course, your "friend" could do the growing and you could do the staying the same, with the same outcome - you would no longer be compatible for each other. One would tire of the other. That is why it is so important to be as emotionally healthy and stable as you can before entering into a serious relationship. I have often heard it recommended, for instance, that a person should wait 5 years after a divorce or death of a spouse to start a serious relationship.

I love the line from Sleepless in Seattle. Annie's (Meg Ryan) brother, the psychologist, tells her the definition of love - granted it is a very INTP-type definition, but it does have some truth to it.
"When you are attracted to someone, it just means that your subconscious is attracted to their subconscious, subconsciously. So what we think of as fate is just 2 neuroses knowing they're a perfect match."

For these reasons, I suggested in post #2 that you work on yourself a little and become the best you that you can be, first, then go looking for the girl of your dreams and you will find her. If you are wise, you will take my advice.

I think that hereditary nature of MBTI is just hypothesis. There is always an exception. The hereditary may be from grand father/mother or even grand grand ..... father/mother. So, we don't find the same trait from the parents. But I don't have proved.

I do more or less agree what you said if I am not happy, it is not good to start a relationship. It is pretty much my conclusion before. I see my INFJ friend is very unhappy and he tries to get a girl to make him happy. I know it won't work. Unfortunately, I trap in the body which I have physically needs!

I am pessimistic and depressed most of my life. It may be part of the INTJ-perfectionist character.

Actually, I don't see I am overly pessimistic. There are very small pool of girls who are compatible to INTJ. There are very small pool of people who are compatible to be INTJ friends. In business world, INTJ will have problems unless one develops good political skills. I will open another thread to discuss this. Basically, I feel most INTJ has difficult life (especially in business world). Most INTJ has good technical skills but it does not garantee it will fit well in the business world. If I have enough money to retire, I don't care about all BS and will do what I like by myself. However, I can't.

I prefer to be ENTJ sometimes so I can more fit in this world and the life is a bit easier. There were good time for INTJ, however, right now, I think it is not good time for INTJ! It is emphasis team work and most things are very complicated. It is very hard for one to do it all by himself/herself.

[Paul V]

I think that hereditary nature of MBTI is just hypothesis. There is always an exception. The hereditary may be from grand father/mother or even grand grand ..... father/mother. So, we don't find the same trait from the parents. But I don't have proved.

I do more or less agree what you said if I am not happy, it is not good to start a relationship. It is pretty much my conclusion before. I see my INFJ friend is very unhappy and he tries to get a girl to make him happy. I know it won't work. Unfortunately, I trap in the body which I have physically needs!

I am pessimistic and depressed most of my life. It may be part of the INTJ-perfectionist character.

Actually, I don't see I am overly pessimistic. There are very small pool of girls who are compatible to INTJ. There are very small pool of people who are compatible to be INTJ friends. In business world, INTJ will have problems unless one develops good political skills. I will open another thread to discuss this. Basically, I feel most INTJ has difficult life (especially in business world). Most INTJ has good technical skills but it does not garantee it will fit well in the business world. If I have enough money to retire, I don't care about all BS and will do what I like by myself. However, I can't.

I prefer to be ENTJ sometimes so I can more fit in this world and the life is a bit easier. There were good time for INTJ, however, right now, I think it is not good time for INTJ! It is emphasis team work and most things are very complicated. It is very hard for one to do it all by himself/herself.

Pardon the vulgarity of the following post, but...

Starting a relationship based on (or maintained on) sex is quite possibly the worst reason ever to begin a relationship. Why? Because if there aren't feelings holding the two of you together, you'll fall apart faster than a drunk old woman with a broken hip. And that will only leave you more unhappy than you already are. If you want me to, I can elaborate more on my reasons.

So...

When you get those "physical needs", I suggest you to use your hand. :)

[terencec]

Pardon the vulgarity of the following post, but...

Starting a relationship based on (or maintained on) sex is quite possibly the worst reason ever to begin a relationship. Why? Because if there aren't feelings holding the two of you together, you'll fall apart faster than a drunk old woman with a broken hip. And that will only leave you more unhappy than you already are. If you want me to, I can elaborate more on my reasons.

So...

When you get those "physical needs", I suggest you to use your hand. :)

It is true that a relationship is not all about sex. The lust will not last very long. Most girls get old (much) faster than men and sex appeal will not last. If it is just for sex, the most efficient way is to pay for it (if the object of desire is for sell!) or use the hand. I don't think the one I like is for sale any time soon. Sometimes, I just wish that I did not have any need to begin with!

[Charlie Mc.]

INTJ is not a straitjacket. It isn't an excuse to have poor social skills either. Everyone struggles with things in life. If you are aware of areas that are difficult for you, then you know what to work on. Using your personality type as an excuse for not doing something isn't a good attitude. No one is incapable of achieving social skills and adapting to a social environment. It doesn't come naturally for many of us, but we are supposed to be good problem solvers right? So solve the problem. Treat it as a problem that needs a solution instead of an insurmountable obstacle and you might be shocked to find it isn't so bad.

[terencec]

INTJ is not a straitjacket. It isn't an excuse to have poor social skills either. Everyone struggles with things in life. If you are aware of areas that are difficult for you, then you know what to work on. Using your personality type as an excuse for not doing something isn't a good attitude. No one is incapable of achieving social skills and adapting to a social environment. It doesn't come naturally for many of us, but we are supposed to be good problem solvers right? So solve the problem. Treat it as a problem that needs a solution instead of an insurmountable obstacle and you might be shocked to find it isn't so bad.

That is true.

However, if it is not for fit in the business world, I don't see the problem.

I see 'I' type has less opportunities in the world. It is not they are inferior but business world prefers 'E' type. I just want to say 'E' type has more opportunities than 'I' type in dating, job opportunities, friends (IMO). I just wish I was born as "ENTJ", so I don't have to work at it, especially something I am not interested in but I have to do it for the sake of doing it (to survive or please someone, e.g. my boss or coworkers). Also, I know if I am still very introverted, I will miss a lot of opportunities because the system we are in.

Just like I hate geography (or any subjuct one does not like) but I have to pass it to graduate in high school. I don't see what is the reason everyone needs to study geography. I know there is no way out but to accept it. At least I don't have to study geography after high school. But dealing with people whether I like them or not will last for life!

[INTJoe]

This is a gross exaggeration. INTJ's are not "dying out" at all. I think that is absurd. Even if people aren't necessarily born INTJ, there will always be those who develop INTJ characteristics, based on their reaction to society.

And, speak for yourself, because I do just fine with the opposite sex. Keep in mind INTJ's can be good looking, funny, athletic and tall. Stop picturing all INTJ's as 5 feet tall, wiry, pale nerds who never leave the house.

We may not search out for other people, including women, but that doesn't mean they don't search us out. There can be sexiness found in all 16 personality types. I think.

[terencec]

And, speak for yourself, because I do just fine with the opposite sex. Keep in mind INTJ's can be good looking, funny, athletic and tall. Stop picturing all INTJ's as 5 feet tall, wiry, pale nerds who never leave the house.


Congratulation for your success.

No, I do not picture INTJ is a nerd or think INTJ=nerd.

My eyes look quite depressed (Like Keanu eyes, his eyes look quite depressed.) but I don't look like a nerd, anyway I am still a nerd by most people definition!

Most women are not visual. not like men. One can be good looking, tall, athlete(they help but not critical for most women IMO) If he does not know how to communicate, they do not mean anything to women. Most women look for emtional connection (because most women are 'F' type I think). I see many beautiful women with some "not so good looking men who are not rich." Those men can say something women want to hear. I don't think INTJ is good at/want to do such things (say things to make women happy especially they are not true.) I am more comfortable to say somethiing to turn people off!

[The Rose]

INTJ is not a straitjacket. It isn't an excuse to have poor social skills either. Everyone struggles with things in life. If you are aware of areas that are difficult for you, then you know what to work on. Using your personality type as an excuse for not doing something isn't a good attitude. No one is incapable of achieving social skills and adapting to a social environment. It doesn't come naturally for many of us, but we are supposed to be good problem solvers right? So solve the problem. Treat it as a problem that needs a solution instead of an insurmountable obstacle and you might be shocked to find it isn't so bad.You GO!
THAT'S the right attitude!

[rwyatt365]

Most women are not visual. not like men. One can be good looking, tall, athlete(they help but not critical for most women IMO) If he does not know how to communicate, they do not mean anything to women. Most women look for emtional connection (because most women are 'F' type I think). I see many beautiful women with some "not so good looking men who are not rich." Those men can say something women want to hear. I don't think INTJ is good at/want to do such things (say things to make women happy especially they are not true.) I am more comfortable to say somethiing to turn people off!
Generally speaking (and forgive the blanket generalization), there is a tendency for women to seek an emotional, or 'spiritual' connection with their mate. Physical features play a role, but a guy (or gal) that can fulfill those emotional needs will trump the "looker" most times. Now, the person that realizes this has an advantage in the "mating game" and there are two approaches to make the best use of that advantage; 1) sincerity, and 2) trickery.

By 'sincerity' I mean that the person has a true, and sincere interest in the woman and expresses that interest in a way that will facilitate the attraction. Saying things and doing things that will show the woman what is in their heart that will tap into that emotional need. By 'trickery' I mean doing what the woman wants in order to "get in her pants". In effect, exploiting her to get what they want.

Now, an INTJ can do either (although I don't condone the latter) simply through application and practice. It may sound cold, but as Charlie says, "…solve the problem. Treat it as a problem that needs a solution…". What can you do to change the situation?

The INTJ type descriptor is not a prison, if there's something that you want, go get it! You may be introverted, you may feel awkward, you may have your "comfort zone" and if you're content to stay there, then don't bemoan your condition – you're there because you made a choice to be there.

If you don't want to turn people off, then find words that won't do that. If you don't want to be without a g/f then do something about it. Don't just sit at home and cry the blues.

[The Rose]

Terence,

You have not introduced yourself in the introduction thread. I am curious to know more about you. What country are you from? What is your primary language? How old are you?

[Circe]

You sound as if you're starting to wallow in a prison of self-pity. Remember, the INTJ type description describes YOU, not the other way around. Learning your personality type does not meant that you have suddenly been given a set standard by which to live.

If you have problems socially, work on them! I literally had to study people as they interacted with others before I felt confident socially. If you want a girlfriend, you're going to have to work to get one- it may be uncomfortable at first, but it will pay off.

[Paul V]

I just wish I was born as "ENTJ"

I have no idea what type I was born as, but I can tell you that everyone wanted me to be either an ESFP or an ESFJ. I, however, rebelled against that and decided to become what I wanted to become. And so I became an INTP. Some time after that, this year, I realised I wasn't getting things done, and I needed more structure and planning in my life. And I became an INTJ.

[thegnat]

if INTJs went extinct, the quality of the world would diminish, thus INTJs will not go extinct due to the necessity of human survival to have them with us. And they can reproduce. Nerds are also getting "cooler" and more necessary to society, too.

[terencec]

Terence,

You have not introduced yourself in the introduction thread. I am curious to know more about you. What country are you from? What is your primary language? How old are you?
Rose,

I got my BSEE and MSEE in US and am working in U.S. now for almost 10 years. So, my experience is in US. That is what I see the problem between INTJ and American women/men/business world in general. I had the best time in University, the freedom and no much conflicts between Professors/Students like in business world. I talked to my INfJ friend in US who has very similar education/experience, he also had the best time in Univerisity. However, I can't stay in school forever. Now, my friend will go to any college in the weekend to recall his good memory!

I didn't even know I am INTJ few years ago. I had many problems with my bosses in different companies and was thinking maybe my character did not fit the work well. Then I took some tests (one of them was MTBI). I found I am INTJ and INTJ=nerd by most people definition. I never considered I was a nerd before!

I think there are some INTJ have overcome the "challenges". In general, I think INTJ have this challenge and it is not easy for them to solve (in short term).

[terencec]

Generally speaking (and forgive the blanket generalization), there is a tendency for women to seek an emotional, or 'spiritual' connection with their mate. Physical features play a role, but a guy (or gal) that can fulfill those emotional needs will trump the "looker" most times. Now, the person that realizes this has an advantage in the "mating game" and there are two approaches to make the best use of that advantage; 1) sincerity, and 2) trickery.

By 'sincerity' I mean that the person has a true, and sincere interest in the woman and expresses that interest in a way that will facilitate the attraction. Saying things and doing things that will show the woman what is in their heart that will tap into that emotional need. By 'trickery' I mean doing what the woman wants in order to "get in her pants". In effect, exploiting her to get what they want.

Now, an INTJ can do either (although I don't condone the latter) simply through application and practice. It may sound cold, but as Charlie says, "…solve the problem. Treat it as a problem that needs a solution…". What can you do to change the situation?

The INTJ type descriptor is not a prison, if there's something that you want, go get it! You may be introverted, you may feel awkward, you may have your "comfort zone" and if you're content to stay there, then don't bemoan your condition – you're there because you made a choice to be there.

If you don't want to turn people off, then find words that won't do that. If you don't want to be without a g/f then do something about it. Don't just sit at home and cry the blues.

I would say all the girls I have experience (not romantic way) are seeking emotional support. So I will say almost all women do so. Look is for most men to look for the women but it is not critical for women to look for the men.

Yes, INTJ can do either way. I even "think" INTJ may be able to do better than most other types (except ENTJ) to "get in her pants" if they put the effort in it. I don't think it is true in reality.

I think most INTJ are in technical field. They are very serious, rational, somewhat cold/independent, narrow interests. These characters make them good at their field. However, it is not most women look for in relationship. It is not so easy to be another person unless one decides he must "get in her pant" and take a lot of practices.

[The Rose]

Rose,

I got my BSEE and MSEE in US and am working in U.S. now for almost 10 years. So, my experience is in US. That is what I see the problem between INTJ and American women/men/business world in general. I had the best time in University, the freedom and no much conflicts between Professors/Students like in business world. I talked to my INfJ friend in US who has very similar education/experience, he also had the best time in Univerisity. However, I can't stay in school forever. Now, my friend will go to any college in the weekend to recall his good memory!

I didn't even know I am INTJ few years ago. I had many problems with my bosses in different companies and was thinking maybe my character did not fit the work well. Then I took some tests (one of them was MTBI). I found I am INTJ and INTJ=nerd by most people definition. I never considered I was a nerd before!

I think there are some INTJ have overcome the "challenges". In general, I think INTJ have this challenge and it is not easy for them to solve (in short term).Thank you but you didn't really answer any of my questions.

You need to read the book: How To Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie.

You will learn how to start a conversation, and what to talk about, and lots of other stuff.
You may have to get it from a library. Take notes on 3x5 cards and carry them with you.

[terencec]

Thank you but you didn't really answer any of my questions.

You need to read the book: How To Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie.

You will learn how to start a conversation, and what to talk about, and lots of other stuff.
You may have to get it from a library. Take notes on 3x5 cards and carry them with you.

Sorry I hate to talk about any personal thing. Age, Where was I born etc? What companies I worked before? etc You can at least guess how old I am by the information I gave to you!

[L30]

Man, you don't have to give emotional support to women you want to fuck. Actually, if you do that you greatly lower your chances of fucking them. NEVER worry about women: they all have big nice social circles to help them out of their miseries. You just think what you want and go take it! Emotional support you give to your good friends and, eventually, in very small doses, to your girlfriend, only after several months of happy fucking, only after she's proven her loyalty, respect and goodwill to you.

[Paul V]

Man, you don't have to give emotional support to women you want to fuck. Actually, if you do that you greatly lower your chances of fucking them. NEVER worry about women: they all have big nice social circles to help them out of their miseries. You just think what you want and go take it! Emotional support you give to your good friends and, eventually, in very small doses, to your girlfriend, only after several months of happy fucking, only after she's proven her loyalty, respect and goodwill to you.

I disagree completely with everything that has been stated in that post.

[xtremegeek]

Man, you don't have to give emotional support to women you want to fuck. Actually, if you do that you greatly lower your chances of fucking them. NEVER worry about women: they all have big nice social circles to help them out of their miseries. You just think what you want and go take it! Emotional support you give to your good friends and, eventually, in very small doses, to your girlfriend, only after several months of happy fucking, only after she's proven her loyalty, respect and goodwill to you.

You probably only date your right hand because...well, you're an asshole. But thanks for sharing your thoughts, mindless and shallow as they may be.

[The Many]

You probably only date your right hand because...well, you're an asshole. But thanks for sharing your thoughts, mindless and shallow as they may be.

Ohh, he is. But at least as to the not-being-emotional-to-get-laid thing, he is right. Of course, I would never do it (I am way too honest and quite a romantic too), but he is right.

[xtremegeek]

I don't think it's wise to hide behind an INTJ mask to try and justify one's shallowness and immaturity. If L30 treats females the way he claims to, it is not a reflection of being an INTJ, rather it's a reflection of his immaturity and shallowness. Any 'guy' with any MBTI can be just as immature and shallow with regards to their treatment of females.

Let's not confuse the issue by trying to claim it's an INTJ issue when it's just an immature guy issue.

[Jezebel]

Hey guys... lets not degenerate this thread even further by turning it into a lowbrow argument. Thanks.

[rwyatt365]

....thank you Jez.

Some of the comments above have sunk to a new low.

[The Many]

I don't think it's wise to hide behind an INTJ mask to try and justify one's shallowness and immaturity. If L30 treats females the way he claims to, it is not a reflection of being an INTJ, rather it's a reflection of his immaturity and shallowness. Any 'guy' with any MBTI can be just as immature and shallow with regards to their treatment of females.

Let's not confuse the issue by trying to claim it's an INTJ issue when it's just an immature guy issue.

Please, don't get me wrong now. It is extremely immature, yes, and it is quite a horrible thing to do - but it works. Believe me. Read The Game, or some book like that - I have many anecdotes myself too. For instance, there was this girl in my class last year. She was a latina, so I told her things such as "white people are better than other races, you can measure it by the size of their foreheads", merely since I thought it was funny - I used to refer to her as "bitch" rather than to her name too; those kinds of things.

After a while we saw a film in class, and she started touching my legs, laying her head towards my shoulder etc - she flirted with me quite a few times but I reacted as indifferent as ever, my grades were a higher priority than her, so in the end her interest faded. But still, acting like a total jerk was what got her attracted in the first place. Really, the worse you treat an F, the more likely they are to be attracted to you - I have seen this mechanism too many times for its own good. Have you lot ever wondered why ESTPs, ENTJs and other "bad boys" get all the girls? This is the reason.

[The Rose]

...Really, the worse you treat an F, the more likely they are to be attracted to you ...Terence no longer has any reason to be despondent. He can just continue being himself, and he is likely to attract somebody - problem solved!

[Bossy Mom]

I am an INTJ female and known as both a generous and a difficult person. My daughter is an ESFP and we get along together most of the time. I just cannot understand why she has so much patience with people who are not entitled to it and how she can be so enamoured of trendy clothes, makeup, etc. For example, on her myspace page, she has "I'm a Shopaholic" as her theme music, along with pictures of her favorite models and designer clothes. She also becomes irritated with me when I criticize her ex-boyfriend. She thinks I should actually have sympathy for him. I doubt if I could get along with her if she weren't my sweet and lovely daughter, to be honest. I guess we INTJ females aren't as heartless, cold and arrogant as we are supposed to be. We have our good points. I love dogs, volunteering for causes I believe in, devoted to my children, and believe in life-long learning. I just have trouble understanding irrational people -- those who don't make SENSE.

[The Many]

Terence no longer has any reason to be despondent. He can just continue being himself, and he is likely to attract somebody - problem solved!

Assuming you are not sarcastic, this answer will be quite serious... if you are sarcastic, then my bad.

Anyway, it depends a lot on your appearance too, of course. I usually make quite a self-confident impression (since I am self-confident), and obviously your looks are part of it too. Generally speaking, and ironically enough, if you just go out there with self-confidence and self-esteem, things tend to work themselves out. For instance, last week I got a random call from a random girl I had never seen in my entire life. She said I was "Fucking hot" (is that word allowed in here? if not, I apologize and will have to edit) and wanted to meet me straight away.

[deicruxified]

Sometimes, I just wish that I did not have any need to begin with!
then i guess you'd have to work to get rid of it. i've been reading your posts and it seems that everything boils down to your own carnal desire. by the virtue of my own opinion, i do think you are not that mature enough to be in a relationship as you are insisting (you nevr mentioned but context clues... hey we're n people here) that you want someone who you can be physical with and that depresses you - your attachment to flesh. if you could just let go of that attachment, then i guess your view point would change. most intj's are hopeless romantics, i myself included but being romantic does not always mean satifying each other's flesh. it means more. if you've got best friends you'll know what i mean.

[Charlie Mc.]

most intj's are hopeless romantics, i myself included but being romantic does not always mean satifying each other's flesh. it means more. if you've got best friends you'll know what i mean.

I totally agree with this statement.

[terencec]

then i guess you'd have to work to get rid of it. i've been reading your posts and it seems that everything boils down to your own carnal desire. by the virtue of my own opinion, i do think you are not that mature enough to be in a relationship as you are insisting (you nevr mentioned but context clues... hey we're n people here) that you want someone who you can be physical with and that depresses you - your attachment to flesh. if you could just let go of that attachment, then i guess your view point would change. most intj's are hopeless romantics, i myself included but being romantic does not always mean satifying each other's flesh. it means more. if you've got best friends you'll know what i mean.

I see how you make your conclusion which bases on my posts. But I am depressed not because of sex, relationship or anything related to women (at least that is not the major cause).

Most men, love and sex can be separate, most women cannot. What I mean is I need sex sometimes and I don't mind having sex without love. I feel it wastes time to think about it but I could not stop it and my body/mind properly works better after having it. That is why I wish I did not have the desire since I could not get what I want.

I don't think I absolutely need a relationship with a woman if I have some close male or female friends without sex who I can talk about anything and some have sex without love (Unfortunately, most women could not do it because love and sex is not separate for them). In other word, I don't need "all in one" package. I hope you don't judge me by your moral standard.

I keep thinking, what is the definition of mature? Are there a standard for most mature people?

[Paul V]

I keep thinking, what is the definition of mature? Are there a standard for most mature people?

I personally believe that the mature person is he/she who is able to comprehend a different posture than his own. He is able to see why a person feels/acts in a certain way, not because he has figured it out, or experienced it himself, but because he has observed and listened. He has lived long enough to realise how the world works, and has a clear understanding of both the big picture and the fine details. To me, a mature person is basically a wise person.

[terencec]

I personally believe that the mature person is he/she who is able to comprehend a different posture than his own. He is able to see why a person feels/acts in a certain way, not because he has figured it out, or experienced it himself, but because he has observed and listened. He has lived long enough to realise how the world works, and has a clear understanding of both the big picture and the fine details. To me, a mature person is basically a wise person.

I am not sure why some people here said I needed to be more mature to have a relationship. It is not because I desperately want a relationship with woman. I just want to see why people said so. "What I said" is not mature? I may need to improve myself if I think the idea is good. However, I hope the reason is not because my value is different from most people value and I should have the same value in order to fit in the world better unless the value has good reasons behind it.

I think close friends (male or female) without sex is a relationship. So, it is not much different. I seldom hear one has to be mature enough to have friends. Now, what is the "major different" between a relationship with woman and close friends except sex? I see a relationship with a female is a close friend+sex.

[Paul V]

I am not sure why some people here said I needed to be more mature to have a relationship. It is not because I desperately want a relationship with woman. I just want to see why people said so. "What I said" is not mature? I may need to improve myself if I think the idea is good.

I think close friends (male or female) without sex is a relationship. So, it is not much different. I seldom hear one has to be mature enough to have friends. Now, what is the "major different" between a relationship with woman and close friends except sex? I see a relationship with a female is a close friend+sex.

That is exactly why you need to mature. Friend+sex is not a relationship. It's simply "Friends with benefits". In order to be in a romantic relationship, you need to have feelings for the other person. Whether it starts off as infatuation, and then slowly builds up to love; or something else, it's up to you and the other person. A romantic relationship requires that, romance and feelings you are not supposed to feel for your friends (otherwise, they're not your friends but potential lovers). If you haven't felt it before, I cannot explain it to you. I myself haven't. I just hope that there's someone out there who makes me feel things I have never felt before, and who makes my life worth living. Someone I'd be willing to die a thousand deaths for, and take on the world alone, just for her.

I understand that Feeling is a terciary function to us, but that doesn't mean we don't feel. It simply means we don't spend much time thinking about it.

[The Rose]

I am not sure why some people here said I needed to be more mature to have a relationship. ...Terence, We are only trying to help you.

I am a male INTJ. I have very hard time to find a friend.

Here is my conclusion. Most INTJ are cold (outside), introverted, rational. However, most girls like someone to support their emotional side without reason. Most INTJ focus on few specific knowledge, like computer which most girls do not care at all. Most INTJ are so passive that they don't initiate conversion.

Now, I think INTJ will be extinct soon because of that. Sure, there will be some INTJ babies but it will not be a lot. It is because I don't see how most INTJ find girls to get marry.
...

Sometimes, I feel quite sad to be an INTJ. it is almost impossible to attract the girl I like. They most likely think I am cold, arrogant, anti-social.

What do you think?To be entirely truthful with you, at first I thought you were a teenager. Your thoughts seem to be the thoughts of someone much younger than you apparently are, since you say you have a Master's Degree.

We have been trying to cheer you up. We've been trying to give you hope. We've been trying to lift your spirits, yet you don't seem to be any better. You said that you suffer from depression. Perhaps this is a season of your life where a few visits with a counselor would do you some good?

I know what it's like to want a serious relationship with someone, to want so badly to find that one person to share your life with. The fact is that none of us have any control over that! The only thing you can do is pray.

We can only give you pointers on how to be the best you can be in the meantime.

You want to find a wife, yet you are extremely reserved. I straight out asked you to tell us what country you are from and how old you are, yet you refused. I think perhaps this is one of those areas where you need to grow and mature more. If you hide yourself, no one can get to know you. You can improve yourself! You can change!

I have been happily married for 25 years. It can happen for you, too.

[terencec]

That is exactly why you need to mature. Friend+sex is not a relationship. It's simply "Friends with benefits". In order to be in a romantic relationship, you need to have feelings for the other person. Whether it starts off as infatuation, and then slowly builds up to love; or something else, it's up to you and the other person. A romantic relationship requires that, romance and feelings you are not supposed to feel for your friends (otherwise, they're not your friends but potential lovers). If you haven't felt it before, I cannot explain it to you. I myself haven't. I just hope that there's someone out there who makes me feel things I have never felt before, and who makes my life worth living. Someone I'd be willing to die a thousand deaths for, and take on the world alone, just for her.

I understand that Feeling is a terciary function to us, but that doesn't mean we don't feel. It simply means we don't spend much time thinking about it.

My view is different from you. I see the lust/sexual desire is what we called the feelings and romance at the very beginning. But most people do not use that term, I will not tell any girl I have sexual feelings for her! Most people may not conciously think that way.

I believe almost all relationship with a woman will become a friendship (+benefits) eventually if they are lucky (over 50% won't in US). It is because the lust will only last a few months or a year. It is very short term thing.

I don't have feelings to my friends because of lacking of sexual desire. Either they are men (I am not turned on by most men!) or the girls are not attractive in my book. I still love my friends but it is not love+lust (the romance feelings).

Eventually the lust will go away and the friendship+(benefits) will last forever (IMO). However, the benefits depreciate because of woman aging (quite fast). Assuming most men do not have sexual desire for old women. The friendship will stay and that is the most important in the relationship.

This is just my opinion.

[INTJoe]

Terence,
You keep making an error, in blaming your personal shortcomings on being "INTJ". Do not make this mistake. We may all (mostly, on this site) be INTJ, but we are still very different birds.
If you feel you are "behind the 8-ball" by being born INTJ, then try working on things which may make you more appealing to the opposite sex. Try dressing better, try working out, try being more hygenic. These type of things don't really come naturally to INTJ's, as we usually don't give a F what people think of us, physically, but they are easy things that you can improve upon.
Trying to be more outgoing (E-ish) will go a long way, but obviously this isn't such an easy fix for the INTJ. Stop hating yourself for who you are, and try working to become a better person. Girls, ALL girls, are attracted to men who take care of themselves and attempt to at least TRY. A girl isn't going to select you as a lover if you look like you cannot take care of yourself. She'll assume you cannot take care of her, or even worse, any possible future kids.

Being INTJ is only a portion of the equation. Hell, I met my girlfriend in a dance club of all places! Sure, I was a bit buzzed, but I saw her across the way and she was dancing alone and she was sexy as hell and I just went for it. We danced for at least an hour and I got her number and she was totally enamored with me within probably a month. So, don't give up yet. You never know how you will meet the love of your life. INTJ's hate surprises, but that doesn't mean we won't surprise ourselves from time-to-time :)

[deicruxified]

1. I just wish I was born as "ENTJ", so I don't have to work at it, especially something I am not interested in but I have to do it for the sake of doing it (to survive or please someone, e.g. my boss or coworkers). Also, I know if I am still very introverted, I will miss a lot of opportunities because the system we are in.
- for your information, mbti just measureS a person's preference not a person's identity. a preference is something we can change over time depending on certain factors such as the environment etc. not all intj's stay intj's for the rest of their life as they may morph into other personality type for instance entj. therefore if you want to be an entj, you can always change and not sulk over your desperation of being an entj.

2. you were stating your point of intj's being erased from the social structure due to tendencies pointing out males to be specific who, you said cannot jive well with most women because of differences in ineterests and most women being aligned more the the emotional side. i do acknowledge the fact that you are not using the word "all" but "most" in stressing your point so as to give justice and not generalize women. in this statement of yours:

Most INTJ are cold (outside), introverted, rational. However, most girls like someone to support their emotional side without reason. Most INTJ focus on few specific knowledge, like computer which most girls do not care at all. Most INTJ are so passive that they don't initiate conversion.

but the sad part of it is you generalizing about points you can never generalize:

Now, I think INTJ will be extinct soon because of that. Sure, there will be some INTJ babies but it will not be a lot. It is because I don't see how most INTJ find girls to get marry

tantamount to "most flips are flops and most flops are flaps therefore all flaps are flips". sorry i'm being technical on this one but why be pessimistic on most when it's just a percentage? what about the "some". don't include the some in your hasty generalization.

and yet another generalization:

The biggest conflicts between INTJ and girls are 'T' and 'F', also the interests different.

so put your mind in a gestalt and change your pov on women.

3. here's what your ideas are narrowing at. first, you stated that it saddens you to find a mate because you are an intj:

Sometimes, I feel quite sad to be an INTJ. it is almost impossible to attract the girl I like. They most likely think I am cold, arrogant, anti-social.

then later, you've got a difficult time because women and intj's belong to different worlds and immiscible (now you said, "women" not "most women" so that includes all the intj women here? i'm being technical on this one):

Most women want emotional support, INTJ does not show emotion or support emotion. Most women do not impress the technical knowledgy. Most women care about jewellery, fashion clothes etc I am sorry to say that most women are not rational, they are emotional most of time I think. So, (INTJ) and women live in different world!

now you're point went to physical desires:

I do more or less agree what you said if I am not happy, it is not good to start a relationship. It is pretty much my conclusion before. I see my INFJ friend is very unhappy and he tries to get a girl to make him happy. I know it won't work. Unfortunately, I trap in the body which I have physically needs!

It is true that a relationship is not all about sex. The lust will not last very long. Most girls get old (much) faster than men and sex appeal will not last. If it is just for sex, the most efficient way is to pay for it (if the object of desire is for sell!) or use the hand. I don't think the one I like is for sale any time soon. Sometimes, I just wish that I did not have any need to begin with!

then you were saying this:

Most men, love and sex can be separate, most women cannot. What I mean is I need sex sometimes and I don't mind having sex without love. I feel it wastes time to think about it but I could not stop it and my body/mind properly works better after having it. That is why I wish I did not have the desire since I could not get what I want.

I don't think I absolutely need a relationship with a woman if I have some close male or female friends without sex who I can talk about anything and some have sex without love (Unfortunately, most women could not do it because love and sex is not separate for them). In other word, I don't need "all in one" package. I hope you don't judge me by your moral standard.

now my question is, what is your point at being depressed at if it's not sex? you said you were having problems relating to women due to emotional inclinations which you don't want to deal with in the first place. so if we negate this emotional issues with women, what else are you looking for? just a plain woman without any excess baggage? come on! can't it be that plain? or are you just sexually repressed and you're just blaming women's emotionality as an outlet because they seem to have power over you in that aspect so as for you not to get "What I mean is I need sex sometimes and I don't mind having sex without love"?

Sometimes, I just wish that I did not have any need to begin with!

so i was thinking, you are just cheesing for sex and you can't get it; thus your miserable life because you can't communicate with women who can go out with you :D

otherwise, correct me if i'm wrong as i am just using your statements to support my point... and no i am not judging by my own moral standards but as the way i see how your point is boiling down at.

4. and in my opinion, maturity is not only understanding yourself but ACCEPTING yourself as well. mbti's are mbti's and they just say something. if you don't like what others or the mbti perceive of you then accept the facts but do something about it and not just whine. understanding is way too different than acceptance. a lot of people may possess more knowledge about mbti like you for instance, you seem to know well about your tendencies based on mbti but you don't accept.... and that's exactly what everyone's pointing at! accept yourself... coz you're an overgrown whining baby :D

[terencec]

now my question is, what is your point at being depressed at if it's not sex? you said you were having problems relating to women due to emotional inclinations which you don't want to deal with in the first place. so if we negate this emotional issues with women, what else are you looking for? just a plain woman without any excess baggage? come on! can't it be that plain? or are you just sexually repressed and you're just blaming women's emotionality as an outlet because they seem to have power over you in that aspect so as for you not to get "What I mean is I need sex sometimes and I don't mind having sex without love"?

If I am depressed at sex, it is simple. I cannot buy love but I can buy sex. If you are men, you know what most men care about besides women. What do men spend most time on everyday? But this is off topic.

I need to understand your definition of "emotional issues". I think some women are not (or less) emotional (whiich means to use reasons not feelings when they decide to do something or to think). I have some close male friends they think very differently from most women I have known. But my friends are not women so we won't date. It is simple, I want to find a woman like a woman outside but like a man inside. This is what I am looking for but it is difficult to find I think

I view sex is necessary for most men function properly, Like sleep and eat.
So, even I cannot find a woman I want, I still need it. That is I mean to have sex without love. Just like in the war, I would eat what I could find. Ideally, I would like to eat only the food I love! This is just analogy. I don't mean these two things are exactly the same.

Are you an INTJ woman? It is because you seem unhappy when I said women not "most women". That was typo only.

[GOD]

I am a male INTJ. I have very hard time to find a friend.

Here is my conclusion. Most INTJ are cold (outside), introverted, rational. However, most girls like someone to support their emotional side without reason. Most INTJ focus on few specific knowledge, like computer which most girls do not care at all. Most INTJ are so passive that they don't initiate conversion.

Now, I think INTJ will be extinct soon because of that. Sure, there will be some INTJ babies but it will not be a lot. It is because I don't see how most INTJ find girls to get marry.

Of course, I assume that most INTJ child from INTJ parents. This assumption may not be true! But I hardly believe there are many INTJ child from both ESFP parents.

I really hope there are more NT type. This world will be better I think.

Sometimes, I feel quite sad to be an INTJ. it is almost impossible to attract the girl I like. They most likely think I am cold, arrogant, anti-social.

What do you think?

Err.. I think you are way off track. Just because you interact with the world in various ways does not necessarily mean all "INTJs" act the same way.

MBTI is just a type of thought process (sort of)... its not an indicator of your personality, eligibility, sporting ability or social skills.

[terencec]

Err.. I think you are way off track. Just because you interact with the world in various ways does not necessarily mean all "INTJs" act the same way.

MBTI is just a type of thought process (sort of)... its not an indicator of your personality, eligibility, sporting ability or social skills.

If I am wrong, it is good. I am the only few INTJ (extreme cases) have this problem.

IMO, I don't believe it is. Even INTJ is just a thought process, the thought will change the behavior and the behavior will indirectly determine what we are good at and what we are not. Depend how to definite the personality, part of the behavior will be the personality. We just have different view.

I think there are others variables besides MTBI. In other word, INTJ does not define the whole person but I believe it defines a large part of it.

I never said all INTJ have the problem. Some 'ENTJ" may have the same problem too. I just see more INTJ have the problems than other types. On the other hand, other types have "the challenges" but INTJ is good at them. "Any type has the weakness and strength."

I do think "the problem" is solvable. But it is a long road for many INTJ especially those have been INTJ for long enough and have the problem. This cannot be solved by "having all the theories in the mind" only (otherwise, INTJ may be good at it!), it involves practice and behavior change.

[The Rose]

right

[deicruxified]

If I am depressed at sex, it is simple. I cannot buy love but I can buy sex. If you are men, you know what most men care about besides women. What do men spend most time on everyday? But this is off topic.
bro, of my 6 closest friends 4 of them are men and one happened to be an intj-scorpio (as per "horroscope" the most prone to over-indulgence in sex). acquiantances 20 mostly male so i would know and their lives are not all about sex so don't generalize men.

I need to understand your definition of "emotional issues". I think some women are not (or less) emotional (whiich means to use reasons not feelings when they decide to do something or to think). I have some close male friends they think very differently from most women I have known. But my friends are not women so we won't date. It is simple, I want to find a woman like a woman outside but like a man inside. This is what I am looking for but it is difficult to find I think
at least you made things clear aside from the sex issue. yes a difficult find indeed. but i'd like to use the jungian anima on this one... you attract what you are. so guess, if (ever) you're gonna find someone drawn to you, don't ask why.

I view sex is necessary for most men function properly, Like sleep and eat.
So, even I cannot find a woman I want, I still need it. That is I mean to have sex without love. Just like in the war, I would eat what I could find. Ideally, I would like to eat only the food I love! This is just analogy. I don't mean these two things are exactly the same.
i do understand that. but you can divert your need for sex to other things... uh sports?

Are you an INTJ woman? It is because you seem unhappy when I said women not "most women". That was typo only.
yes. however if it seems a typo then why continue on generalizing in your next statements?

[terencec]

bro, of my 6 closest friends 4 of them are men and one happened to be an intj-scorpio (as per "horroscope" the most prone to over-indulgence in sex). acquiantances 20 mostly male so i would know and their lives are not all about sex so don't generalize men.


In my book, most men are drove by sex, the different is if they can control it and faithful in the relationship. I do believe INTJ is more faithful than typical men.

By the way, most men will not admit it. If I know you in person (not on the net.), I will not tell you about it, especially if I want to have a relationship. Otherwise, you will go away and think I just want to have sex. Since I probably will never know you in person, I am not concerned about it. What I mean is that you may keep this in mind, most men do look after sex (it may not be the only reason but it is one of the major reasons).

I ask a simple question, do you see most men have relationship with a 60 year old lady? Why don't they? The old lady has more life experience, probably has more money too. What can the young girls offer that the old lady cannot offer?

Do you think it is because of sex appeal?

[deicruxified]

my points

In my book, most men are drove by sex, the different is if they can control it and faithful in the relationship. I do believe INTJ is more faithful than typical men.


By the way, most men will not admit it. If I know you in person (not on the net.), I will not tell you about it, especially if I want to have a relationship. Otherwise, you will go away and think I just want to have sex. Since I probably will never know you in person, I am not concerned about it. What I mean is that you may keep this in mind, most men do look after sex (it may not be the only reason but it is one of the major reasons).

I ask a simple question, do you see most men have relationship with a 60 year old lady? Why don't they? The old lady has more life experience, probably has more money too. What can the young girls offer that the old lady cannot offer?

Do you think it is because of sex appeal?

1. as for your simple question, the possible asnwers could be: (a) the inevitable, carnal issues.. sex, (b) level of maturity because as you have stated, old people are more experienced compared to younger people and often times they would seem more demanding if they settle for a younger life partner, (c) happenstance, love is also a possibility.

2. indeed, sex is inevitable but there are other concerns in life more than sex. why would a hermit choose to live in the forest? to masturbate for his entire life? he does have a body but there are more reasons beyond the flesh as to why he flees to the mountains. why would a widow not remarry again? of course she has a body and she has needs but that's not all what she would want for the rest of her life. i do think you have to make a clear-cut vision of need and want as your replies become more hazy. intj's specialize in whatever want or need they have chosen. in relation to your post, what's yours?

3. and before you debunk my answers, i'd like you to take a second look on your previous post and see what i have emphasized. i do understand what you are getting me at and i do have an idea on where you want to steer this conversation so i did indicate. technically speaking, you said most, a percentage of a group; thus, you can't lead me to a generalized answer. with the percentages you have given, i cannot conclude otherwise for my friends unless they submit themselves to a lie-detector test. do i have to reiterate this again?

[terencec]

my points



1. as for your simple question, the possible asnwers could be: (a) the inevitable, carnal issues.. sex, (b) level of maturity because as you have stated, old people are more experienced compared to younger people and often times they would seem more demanding if they settle for a younger life partner, (c) happenstance, love is also a possibility.

2. indeed, sex is inevitable but there are other concerns in life more than sex. why would a hermit choose to live in the forest? to masturbate for his entire life? he does have a body but there are more reasons beyond the flesh as to why he flees to the mountains. why would a widow not remarry again? of course she has a body and she has needs but that's not all what she would want for the rest of her life. i do think you have to make a clear-cut vision of need and want as your replies become more hazy. intj's specialize in whatever want or need they have chosen. in relation to your post, what's yours?

3. and before you debunk my answers, i'd like you to take a second look on your previous post and see what i have emphasized. i do understand what you are getting me at and i do have an idea on where you want to steer this conversation so i did indicate. technically speaking, you said most, a percentage of a group; thus, you can't lead me to a generalized answer. with the percentages you have given, i cannot conclude otherwise for my friends unless they submit themselves to a lie-detector test. do i have to reiterate this again?

I would not say your friends lie. I just say that most male, sex appeal is important. I could not think to have a romantic relationship with a 70 year old woman.

I wish you would be a guy for a few days, then you could feel what most men feel and you could make your own decision. Even though you are doubt what I said, it is still better for you to consider my point.

For men, the sexual peak is at teen. For women, the sexual peak is at much later life, I heard it is at around 40. I think God knows how to make a joke. Maybe, when you are at 40s, you can feel what most men feel.

I can tell you are lucky, I bet you don't have much "bad" experience (men "just" look for sex.) Congratulation.

[deicruxified]

I would not say your friends lie. I just say that most male, sex appeal is important. I could not think to have a romantic relationship with a 70 year old woman.

I wish you would be a guy for a few days, then you could feel what most men feel and you could make your own decision. Even though you are doubt what I said, it is still better for you to consider my point.

For men, the sexual peak is at teen. For women, the sexual peak is at much later life, I heard it is at around 40. I think God knows how to make a joke. Maybe, when you are at 40s, you can feel what most men feel.

I can tell you are lucky, I bet you don't have much "bad" experience (men "just" look for sex.) Congratulation.
again, most. and thank you.