What do you think about a female INTJ dating a male INTP?

[Aderyn]

So, I'm a lady INTJ with a very strong attraction to a male INTP. I've heard that female INTJs tend to be attracted to men of the same or similar type, but I'm not really sure if a relationship in which two people are so similar can work out. I'm pretty young, so I don't have a lot of experience. He's a few years older. There aren't very many people that I like at all, so the number of people I've been romantically interested in is less than 3.

Anyway, the problem here is that I really don't deal well with people, and in particular I'm confused by this guy. His body language says that he's definitely attracted to me. He initiates conversations constantly and holds eye contact for longer than is necessary. He seems to be very interested, but he doesn't act like all of the other guys that have been interested in me. It's like he's testing me, or studying me. He's also told me that I'm intimidating.

Does the fact that we both have such a cynical nature and a hard time dealing with people imply that this relationship can't work? Can two introverts date successfully? Has anyone dated an INTP? Do you have any advice?

[notthedroid]

Saying X type and X type can never work together is shortsighted. Within each attribute (introverted vs extroverted) there are always ranges, so assuming an INTJ (or INTP) is always going to act a certain way is asking for a rude awakening.

You'll only know if you try.

That said, I've dated other introverts and it's nice to have someone with whom you share similar comfort levels. But the danger is you can stagnate and fall in a rut easily if you aren't careful to shake things up.

He probably is testing and studying you. Take it easy and give him small, non-threatening openings to initiate contact with you. See if he takes the bait. Body language and eye contact is one thing, but action is where the truth lies. If he's not interested, he won't do it.

[ElstonGunn]

So, I'm a lady INTJ with a very strong attraction to a male INTP. I've heard that female INTJs tend to be attracted to men of the same or similar type, but I'm not really sure if a relationship in which two people are so similar can work out.

Sure they can. It's not my own personal preference to be romantically involved with someone like myself, but that's what it is-- a preference. It's not (not directly, at least) a case of me thinking that I can't be with someone like myself. Plenty of people enjoy, or even reccommend the simpatico of similarity.


He seems to be very interested, but he doesn't act like all of the other guys that have been interested in me.

Which is bad because....? Statistically, INTPs are rare. Are you expecting him to indicate his interest in the same way that an ESTJ or an INFP would? Not that all people of a given type act the exact-- or even similar-- ways, but still. Based on some vague notion of introvert standards, it does sound like he likes you to some degree. I can't tell you what the nature of his interest is, though; whether it's romantic or platonic or what.


Does the fact that we both have such a cynical nature and a hard time dealing with people imply that this relationship can't work? Can two introverts date successfully?

Yes, introverts can date successfully. Of course they can. It might not look the same as two extraverts dating, which is the cultural standard, but the good thing about a double-introvert couple is that the extravert standard isn't much of an issue.

One question I have, though, is why you're asking about a relationship before it exists. There's a good chance that it's not going to happen on its own. I'm not saying that it can't, but introverts generally have to make more of an effort to get the ball rolling. In other words, if you want to date him, ask him about it, not us.

So there's a couple of cents for you. Take a penny, leave a penny... Whatever you want.

[Aderyn]

I think the reason I'm not talking to him about it is mostly that I'm afraid of rejection. He's someone that I'll have to see all the time, even if this doesn't work out. The truth of the matter is, I'm healing from a pretty serious injury, and we've actually already agreed to hang out once its a bit easier for me to get around.

Does it get easier to understand people with age, or am I going to be confused for the rest of my life? I'd hoped that perhaps someone as supposedly logical as me would be easier to understand, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Anyway, I can't actually imagine myself dating an extrovert, so I'm glad to hear you say that relationships between introverts do work. I suppose the problem there is that one of us has to work up the courage to tell the other how we feel.

[ElstonGunn]

Does it get easier to understand people with age, or am I going to be confused for the rest of my life? I'd hoped that perhaps someone as supposedly logical as me would be easier to understand, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Logical-ness, if it's excessive, is one of the most difficult traits to understand in a person. It makes sense, but the problem is that people aren't supposed to make sense. Being too clear is confusing. Although I suppose that the odds might be better for two excessively logical people. Like a couple of INTxs for example.


I suppose the problem there is that one of us has to work up the courage to tell the other how we feel.

Yeah, that's what I was getting at. Although if you're already spending time with the fellow, that helps a lot. In a nod to another recent thread here, a lot of introverts have a hard time dating strangers. I've never done this myself, but you could try the idea where, once things get relatively comfortable for you, you just kind of assume that you're dating. It's hard to explain, but if you're spending time alone with the guy, and if he seems at least vaguely interested in you, you might be able to get away with sneaking your way into a relationship, so to speak. (Just an idea.)

[Aderyn]

Ha, I like that idea: sneaking into a relationship. It's probably where we're headed. I can usually tell when someone likes me, and I'm pretty sure he does. However, since it's so rare for me to genuinely like someone, I'm very worried about how I present myself to him. As a rule, I don't really care what people think of me. That makes it really hard for me when I actually do care what someone thinks. I don't want to censor myself, because later on he'll find out about what I'm really like anyway, but I also don't want to frighten him off with an overwhelming personality.

[greenblob]

If an INTP likes you, he REALLY likes you. INTPs usually don't open up, never mind go on personal dates, unless he wants to make the relationship work. I wouldn't worry too much about presentation, but if you think you're starting to frighten him, pretend to be awkward (you're probably feeling awkward anyway)--he'll understand, perhaps a bit too well.

[Aderyn]

I don't have to pretend to be awkward. I'm pretty good at it without any play-acting. Thanks for the advice from an INTP. I guess all of the cheesy grins he's been shooting my way mean something after all.

[greenblob]

I should also post a caveat:
INTPs might not be the best at communicating interest (or lack thereof) in a potential relationship. I've had people think that I like them when I didn't, and things got messy, for a while at least. But this is personal experience and therefore might not be so credible, whereas the stuff I posted earlier is backed up by INTP profiles I've read.

So I guess what I'm saying is if you know for certain that he likes you, he'll probably likes you a lot at this point. If he doesn't have feelings for you and you ask him out, well, you know how INTPs typically react to emotional and awkward situations.

[curiousjane]

Sounds like geek heaven to me.
Just don't push push push for the relationship to happen.
Let it happen.
And give him plenty of space to sort things out.
But don't give up.
He may like you even more than you know.

[notthedroid]

Does it get easier to understand people with age, or am I going to be confused for the rest of my life?

I know this is not helpful, but I am more confused now than ever. I keep waiting for the birthday where they hand me the "Congratulations, you're no longer an idiot!" card, and so far, no dice. I'll be 31 in two weeks and I am sort of hoping this is the year. I thought it would be my last birthday, but apparently that one just makes me untrustworthy.

I am also missing my "easy" button.

[thod]

Anyway, the problem here is that I really don't deal well with people, and in particular I'm confused by this guy. His body language says that he's definitely attracted to me. He initiates conversations constantly and holds eye contact for longer than is necessary. He seems to be very interested, but he doesn't act like all of the other guys that have been interested in me. It's like he's testing me, or studying me. He's also told me that I'm intimidating.


Sounds about right to me. Firstly understand the INTP, they are detached observers. By that I mean, I am in here looking out, or maybe out here looking in. But there is a detachment, a separation of the self from everything else. The self is actually highly rational and not driven by emotion, almost autistic. You can ask an INTP why they think, or do, anything and they will give you the reasoning. So the INTP has a model in his head of how the world works and that model is more real than anything else. This model is constantly updated by both observation and experimentation in the real world. Thus he will study you if he finds you interesting, that is to update his internal model. He will start conversations for the same reason. Not because he wants to know the answers, he already knows, but because he wants to process your answers and reactions.

The internal models of INTPs are never complete and this leads to them to inaction. They want to analyze every single path before making a decision, at which point it is a known and not a decision. Thus he will probably never get around to asking you out on a date since there will always be unknown outcomes. They don't jump in gung ho to anything and hope for the best like other types do.

An INTJ will always be making the decisions in such a relationship. The INTP will provide analysis and insight. So if you are interested in this guy then its going to have to be up to you to make the moves. Recall that INTP's cant decide, so if you push for a decision on anything expect him to back away, not from you, but form the decision. What INTP's need is time to think about things. Give them the options and let them sleep overnight on it, only then ask for the decision.

[Aderyn]

Sounds like geek heaven to me.
Or nerd nirvana.

I am more confused now than ever.
So there's no hope? I'm crushed. ;)

An INTJ will always be making the decisions in such a relationship. The INTP will provide analysis and insight. So if you are interested in this guy then its going to have to be up to you to make the moves. Recall that INTP's cant decide, so if you push for a decision on anything expect him to back away, not from you, but form the decision. What INTP's need is time to think about things. Give them the options and let them sleep overnight on it, only then ask for the decision.

I love making decisions. That's probably a good thing. Although I am concerned about actually having to make the first move. I've never done that before. I've always been asked out, rather than the other way around. I guess that I definitely want him to be comfortable with me before I make any moves, but I don't want him to get so comfortable that he loses interest, right? This is really complicated.

It seems the usual blatant hints that I am interested just won't do the trick. From what everyone is saying, I'm going to have to be the aggressor here. That's definitely against my nature. This is a lot to think about. The question now becomes how much energy do I really want to invest in all of this? I'm genuinely interested, but I can get dates with other guys with far less effort; they just won't be as smart or as interesting.

I'm wondering if something like, "hey, I rather like you, but I need to know whether or not I'm wasting my time," will do the trick. Do you think I should just flat out ask him, or is that a bad idea?

[ElstonGunn]

I guess that I definitely want him to be comfortable with me before I make any moves, but I don't want him to get so comfortable that he loses interest, right? This is really complicated.

I've never lost interest in anyone as a result of being too comfortable with her. If anything, that improves the situation for me, but I hate the new and exciting initial stages of a relationship, and I think they generally get better with time for me (at least until things start looking like they won't work, which a result of realizing that they involve the wrong people, rather than people who know each other too well). That's just me, though.


It seems the usual blatant hints that I am interested just won't do the trick. From what everyone is saying, I'm going to have to be the aggressor here. That's definitely against my nature. This is a lot to think about. The question now becomes how much energy do I really want to invest in all of this? I'm genuinely interested, but I can get dates with other guys with far less effort; they just won't be as smart or as interesting.

I'm categorically opposed to hints. Even if I do notice them (which would mean that they're so obvious that a retarded ape could notice them), there's about a one in five thousand chance that I'd act on them. If someone isn't interested enough in me to cut the crap and just tell me, she's probably not that interested in me to begin with.

That being said, if you'd prefer to wait for other people to come to you, I don't see a problem with that, at least not practically-speaking. It limits your options to say that you'll never be the initiator, but there are a lot of available people, so maybe limiting the options isn't necessarily a bad thing (unless you limit them in such a way that people who could be a good match for you get excluded by your criteria).


I'm wondering if something like, "hey, I rather like you, but I need to know whether or not I'm wasting my time," will do the trick. Do you think I should just flat out ask him, or is that a bad idea?

Asking can be tricky because there's a chance that he might take it as, "Hey, do you like me? Because I hope you don't. I didn't want to have to deal with this awkward situation, but I think I might have to."

If you decide to say something to him, I'd suggest not making a big deal out of it. That idea you have above sounds fine to me, but I'd leave out the, "Answer me immediately, because the outcome of the rest of my life is resting on the response you'll give me" part. That seems like too much pressure. If someone said that to me, I'd probably either freeze up, or give a non-answer back (like, "Yeah, it probably would be good to know if you're wasting your time").

[Aderyn]

Thanks for the advice. I'll work myself up to it. I think that I am going to ask him about it, but I'll be careful how I do it. The truth is that it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things, but I'm bothered by all of this because I like for everything to be decided.

It's about time for me to spend some time being a little bit more assertive when it comes to personal relationships. I'm usually only assertive academically. I'm always afraid that my social-ineptitude will make any attempt I make at being assertive seem strange and rude. It's good for me to step out of my comfort zone on occasion, right? Anyway, no reward without risk, etcetera, etcetera...:uneasy:

[Fineline]

If I may be so bold, I also have some advice: when you try to initiate a relationship, make it VERY OBVIOUS that you truly do like him. I have stupidly rejected people, even though they made the first move, because of the extreme social phobia that they may be playing with me. I hate the thought that someone means more to me than I mean to them.

[Evalind]

I can usually tell when someone likes me, and I'm pretty sure he does. However, since it's so rare for me to genuinely like someone, I'm very worried about how I present myself to him. As a rule, I don't really care what people think of me. That makes it really hard for me when I actually do care what someone thinks. I don't want to censor myself, because later on he'll find out about what I'm really like anyway, but I also don't want to frighten him off with an overwhelming personality.

I'd imagine most INTPs would find a genuine INTJ personality refreshing... unless they get some kind of "You should be more J, like me!" vibe from you. But yeah, I'd say just be yourself.

[Aderyn]

I've recently discovered that being less than myself is almost impossible for me. To pretend to be something that I'm not, I have to keep my mouth completely shut. When he's around, I can't do that, so... he's just going to have to take me or leave me pretty much as is.

He's definitely interested in me. I don't know what I've been worried about. I suppose it's in my nature to distrust anything that I read about relationships, since I'm so bad at people.

Anyway, you're right. He seems to find the differences intriguing. I've also been working at making it very clear to him that I am interested in him. He's told me that he has serious problems with self-doubt. I wouldn't want him to think I didn't like him. The dance continues. I'll update you guys as things progress. Any more advice is welcome.

[ElstonGunn]

I've also been working at making it very clear to him that I am interested in him. He's told me that he has serious problems with self-doubt. I wouldn't want him to think I didn't like him. The dance continues. I'll update you guys as things progress. Any more advice is welcome.

I always think it's interesting when people have the patience to do the dance. It would be a lot simpler if you could just say, "Now, you are aware that I like you, right?" And if I were on the receiving end of that question, I'd also find that much more appealing than being forced to play Sherlock Holmes in the area that, for me, is arguably more difficult and less enjoyable than any other subject. But I guess there's something to be said for avoiding directness in favor of lengthening awkwardness.

[Romeo]

I spent 35 years of my life with an INTP. It is a difficult relationship even though they are wonderful people. The INTJ is forced to take the lead and what happens as a result is that the INTJ grows leaps and bounds throughout life because of the responsibilities that they must assume. The INTP is great and supports the partner in all endeavors because both the INTJ and INTP are intelligent and agree on logical decisions. After many years, the INTJ gets exhausted from carrying the INTP. A good analogy would be that the President is the INTJ and the VP is the INTP. The INTP wants to be the VP--certainly not the President. In the partnership, the President feels like the burden is all on her and begins to think that living life alone would be easier and more peaceful. After all, she would take with her the framework that she created. If the INTP is not secure with himself, he begins to feel competition with the INTJ and begins playing passive-aggressive games to feel secure with himself. I think the INTP recognizes that because he's taken the second position and has no interest in leading, he created the person that he begins to hate. I often think that if the INTJ is a man and the INTP is a woman, it would work better. It's tough for the INTP man to live with an INTJ woman. If they aren't secure in their own right, it can present problems. In my case, my INTP spouse began hating what he had created and I lost respect for the fact that he made me do everything. Absolutely eveything. It is very sad story because I think we are both great people. As I aged and lost some of my energy, I resented him and I think he knew it. I think about it often and feel bad that we had to part and go our separate ways. It was amicable but sad after 35 years of marriage and two wonderful children.

Another thing.....I've been reading about the dance that you're doing with your INTP friend. At this point in my life, I don't want to dance around with any personality type. If someone is interested in you, they need to make a move. It's very telling when the man doesn't make the move. It indicates that he will never make the move on anything throughout life. I never felt desired by my INTP man. I had to be the first to ask him out, after marriage, first to make any physical moves, and I had to be the aggressor on everything. I had to make the dinner reservations, vacation plans, etc. A woman should be desired by a man and that man needs to be comfortable making the moves. I've studied MBT1 for five years now and I know that for me, I need an INTJ man. He needs to be more intelligent than I am and have something special that is his alone and not mine. I read where most INTJ women connect profoundly with INTJ men. I have an INTJ man in my life now and it's magical in every way possible. He's a published writer and as creative as I am. We are both artists in our own right but our art is different. I paint with oils. I've got a man that desires me and makes the moves. It's perfect for me. The problem is finding one--good luck. My advice is don't settle.

[greenblob]

Yeah, that's a problem. INTPs are TiNeSiFe. Their emotional side is extroverted and underdeveloped, which means that you'll be the source of his emotions. INTPs can get emotionally needy because they depend on someone else for their feeling side and they don't know what to do with it. The fact that they automatically try to reason out this confusion (Ti) often makes it worse. Once they give up on that, they'll try to shake it off with humor (Ne+Ti), which usually ends up killing the relationship, especially when the partner is a serious J.
In a downhill relationship, INTPs can get increasingly clingy, reminiscing on better days (Fe+Si). This causes problems for the INTJ when she assesses the information through Te, which indicates that the relationship cannot continue.

But I'm talking about the worst-case scenario. INTJ+INTP relationships can work well. INTJs and INTPs often understand each other very well, but at the same time can be very different.

[Aderyn]

I'd like to say that technically, he has asked me out (sort of). I think I mentioned before that I was injured. I was on crutches up until just this weekend; I have a pretty serious broken leg. Anyway, he told me multiple times that he would drive me around while I was injured, to the book store, that sort of thing. At the time, I told him I didn't feel well enough for that, so we needed to wait until the crutches were gone. We agreed to hang out when I felt well enough... which is technically having asked me out, right? He hasn't actually asked me to dinner or anything, but he's been feeling me out, asking how my leg is doing and if I have weekend plans. Maybe he's waiting for me to definitively say that I feel well enough to go somewhere?

I suppose I should have mentioned this from the beginning. It is a fairly important part of the story. I think that he definitely wants to ask me out and he's waiting for a signal from me. I'm starting to get a clearer picture of what's going on here, mostly from talking to him. His major concern seems to be not injuring me any further. (I was standing beside him talking to him today and he was fretting about me putting too much weight on my leg. He wanted to know if I was okay and wouldn't do better sitting down.)

I'd like to add that he occasionally displays traits that I would associate more with an INTJ, which makes me wonder if he doesn't teeter on the J/P edge. He can be much more like me than I would have expected. He can even be decisive. He's definitely self-confident in some areas, even a tad arrogant. He doesn't really seem emotionally needy (admittedly we've only known each other for 8 months, and only been interested in one another for about 2 so I may have just missed it).

Perhaps all of this started because of my self-confidence issues (where relationships are concerned). Maybe I should have never doubted in the first place. I think that it might be best if I tell him that I'm feeling up to doing things on the weekends now and just see what happens. He may ask me out once he knows I feel comfortable with it, and all of this worrying may have been for naught.

As for the dancing thing, I don't have much patience for it, so it won't last for long. This is either going to happen or it isn't. I don't flirt (very often) and I don't play with people. Another week or two and I will drop it if nothing has happened. I'm not going to waste my energy working at something that I could get much more easily somewhere else.

[greenblob]

The thing is, INTPs are open-ended whereas INTJs live in absolutes. An INTP will not ask someone out unless he/she knows for certain that there is mutual attraction, lest he ruin his chance. Couple that with the "all-or-nothing" mentality INTPs have towards romance and making the first move becomes a terrifying thing. From my personal life, I usually develop attraction outside of "official" courtship--before the dating actually occurs. Once I decide that I'm attracted to someone, that person becomes one of my "projects", a puzzle that needs to be solved, and eventually an obsession. I will not ask that person out until I am absolutely sure that there is mutual attraction, my rationale being that once she knows things will get awkward and my puzzle will become more complex and tedious. Given the occasion that I find myself eying someone with whom I have not developed such feelings for, this won't apply and I will be more willing to take the risk by approaching her.
If you want him to ask you out, make it obvious that you like him.

Also, make sure your Ni doesn't make you jump to premature conclusions. Just speaking from personal experience, I no longer am surprised when people think that I am attracted to them.

[Romeo]

I'm curious, what do you think happens to an INTP after being married to an INTJ woman for 35 years and suddenly divorced. Do you think there may be regrets? What type of recovery would that INTP be going through. I know the steps that I've been through recovering from the divorce but I'm curious as to what his inner world would be doing to him. Our children are professionals living out of state. I often wonder if our children would feel responsible for his happiness? Do you think he would cling to them? Do you think they may feel burdened by his clinging? I never say a bad word to our children about their father. My daughter is an ENTJ and my son, an INFJ. They keep their relationship with their parents separate. There is no discussion. When I see my children, we celebrate our time together with no discussion about the past. On a human level, I hope that he's not suffering emotionally too much and has been able to move forward with his life. It's interesting, I purchased a condo immediately after our divorce and he's still living in an apartment. I know that he's interested in purchasing a home but can't seem to make it happen. We left with the exact same amount of money. Split it right down the middle--no arguing about money.

[Aderyn]

I'm curious, what do you think happens to an INTP after being married to an INTJ woman for 35 years and suddenly divorced.

I know I'm not really the person you're asking, but it sounds to me like someone who's been following you for half of his life will have a very hard time making decisions on his own now that you aren't around.

If you want him to ask you out, make it obvious that you like him.

That's hard for me. I've been withholding emotions for my entire life. On top of all of this, I haven't even reached my 20th birthday yet. This is all pretty new for me.

[ElstonGunn]

If you want to date the guy, just ask him out. If he's interested in you (which it sounds like he is), he's not going to give a rat's ass if you come off as weird and awkward while doing it. There's even a chance that it might pique his interest or make him like you even more, and either way, you'd be speeding up the process. Just say, "Hey, my foot's better. Now we can go on that date."

Of course, if you've misread the situation and he's actually not romantically interested in you, he will burn your house down and curse the next five generations of your family. Right? Because that would be a pretty understandable reason for not wanting to ask him out.

[karenk]

If you want to date the guy, just ask him out. If he's interested in you (which it sounds like he is), he's not going to give a rat's ass if you come off as weird and awkward while doing it. There's even a chance that it might pique his interest or make him like you even more, and either way, you'd be speeding up the process. Just say, "Hey, my foot's better. Now we can go on that date."

Of course, if you've misread the situation and he's actually not romantically interested in you, he will burn your house down and curse the next five generations of your family. Right? Because that would be a pretty understandable reason for not wanting to ask him out.

Completely agree. The sooner you ask the sooner you'll have concrete info as opposed to guessing/interpreting/etc.. I mean any hypothesis could be completely wrong and you won't know until you get it from the source.

[Aderyn]

Of course, if you've misread the situation and he's actually not romantically interested in you, he will burn your house down and curse the next five generations of your family. Right? Because that would be a pretty understandable reason for not wanting to ask him out.

Okay, so I'm overreacting. It's obviously time to just do something about this, rather than fretting about it. The next oppotunity I get, I'll talk to him about it. I just wish that I didn't have to do it. I really think that he likes me, so I don't know why I'm so hesitant about it.

Thanks for showing me how silly I'm being. There are thousands of other guys on my university's campus alone. How bad could it be to be rejected by just one? I suppose there's always the possibility that he's feeling the same way about all of this: confused and uncertain. I'd just hate to make a fool of myself. It would probably take me ages to ever take a risk like this again if this doesn't go my way. (It's taken me ages to finally agree to take this one in the first place though, hasn't it?)

All of this speculation is a waste of time. I'll take care of it. I'm tired of worrying about it. Of course, if things do work out, I'll have something new to worry about. :rolleyes: