Friends and Nervous Breakdowns

[HMF]

Let the fun begin. :)

Hi, I'm new and I have known myself to be an INTJ for about a year and a half now. I'm coming here specifically because, well, I don't really know where else to go for this kind of help, so why not here. I appreciate any help in advance.

My problems pretty much began at the end of my senior year at high school. I actually had a pretty decent high school experience, I obviously kept to myself a lot but I always stayed busy in my school work and had my AV club buddies to fulfill my social needs. As extroverted as they all were, I was the quiet one in the club who had a knack for video editing, and we all hung out together and I was happy because I was doing things I liked to do around people who shared an interest in what I had to do.

Towards the end of the year, things got rough. Despite my hard work, I was rejected by all my four year schools for various reasons. I won none of my scholarships or grants that I applied for and this knocked me down like a bat to the face. Long story short, this big setback sort of really brought out my temperament out in full because I didn't know how to take it. I started spending a lot more time by myself and it eventually just turned into isolationism from everyone. Everybody I knew, trusted, and shared interests with shipped off to college on mommy and daddy's money. Thus, leaving the INTJ on his own in a rural town living in his broken home.

So with no real family support, no friend support, I'm finding myself without any real direction or without any pride in being an INTJ. I've sort of reduced myself into being a workaholic at my job, working 60 hours a week while attending a community college. It's made me even more cynical and bitter about myself and others that I can't keep a positive notion on anything. So bitter that my friends don't want to talk to me anymore and I can absolutely see why they wouldn't. I don't want to talk to me.

I don't know what to do to be content with myself basically. I'm only a year out of high school and I keep thinking that hard work isn't necessarily going to get me anywhere. My long term goals were too idealistic and too irrational. I try to stay positive and rational, but I'm too paranoid of failure again. I've become extremely time conscious and I'm having mid life crisis's at 20! Or better yet, I've had nights alone where I feel like I'm Ivan Ilyach on his deathbed, contemplating, "What have you done with your life!?"

It's very self destructive behavior, I know. Yet all I can do is either go to work and ignore it, or buy expensive toys to temporarily take my mind off it, because that's what I used to do when I was a teenager. Now that I'm an adult so to speak, it really doesn't work as well as it used to because I live the same damn thing over and over again. I want to feel content and productive again so that I could actually maybe make some new friends in case these ones don't want to take me back.

If anyone here could shed some light, advice, or even spiteful criticism, I would really appreciate it.

[deicruxified]

hiyee and welcome *shakes hand*

i got pretty high ideals too way back... when i was applying for college, i was so stuck in the idea that i will be getting a scholarship in the top university here. then unfortunately, i didn't and flipped and was frustrated. amidst all that, i still got another college where i passed and got a scholarship. but there was my esfj mom who doesn't want me to go there due to security reasons... i also flipped... until the selection went narrower and narrower 'til i find myself enrolling in my mom's preferred college and preferred course (she wants me to take up law so i took up philosophy but then eventually liked it and the whole course convinced me not to take up law like what my professors did). basically, my life now is not what i wanted but what my mom wanted. to cut things short, i'm pretty miserable with my life and i'm having a midlife crisis as well and like you, i am ivan ilyich, a desperate and depressed old sterile guy wanting to turn back time...

just last week, i talked to my mom. i told her, "i've done what you have wanted me to do but i can't push through with it because i don't like law and i won't make profit out of it. i think it's my turn to make myself happy" i want to be a musician at heart (personal side), a classical/flamenco guitarist and an environmentalist or a child psychologist or preschool teacher... a profession that would distance myself from the adult and busy life in the city. it took me a lot of courage to say that to my mom. my sister on the otherhand is a professional violinist and a painter who just started to make her name in paris (her artworks are featured in a french art mag just 2 months ago) but my mom "sabotaged" the events so as for my sister not to attend the second screening for fine arts school. now that my sister has only a term left in college, she told me that she's going to study fine arts by hook or by crook.

so basically, we got the same issues but what do i do? i laugh and cackle once every level of my struggle have been overcome. i am now 21 and for my mom's friends who were expecting me to graduate from law or get a ph.d at the age of 22 is highly commendable but i am happy? i sat down and evaluated what would be my lif ein the future and i said NO I WILL BE HAPPY, I WON'T BE IVAN ILYICH, I DON'T WANT MY LIFE END UP IN A SACK AND WITHDRAW WHEN THE STRINGS HAVE BEEN PULLED.

so there...

[chocky]

I'm in my mid thirties now, I've been there - a space like the space you describe - and I have cyclically returned there over the years.

In fact, I'm barely holding it all together now. I'm trying to schedule it in my mind... thinking "Once such and such is over I can have my nervous breakdown". I have mini-breakdowns nearly every day. An over-inflated sense of responsibility, and something I can only describe as self-hatred, keep me constant company. No matter how much I do I feel like a failure. I feel like an old crone who can't even justify the air she breathes - must do more! must achieve! must not rest! I have become a workaholic, and still I pile more responsibilities and duties on my plate while at the same time totally neglecting other things (like housework and my children! - which just proves how 'bad' I am!) All this and I still can't escape! Escape what?

I deprive myself of support and alienate the people around me. I subject myself to the harshest criticism in order to circumvent external critics. I don't want to be caught by surprise - imagine someone finding a fault in my work or character that I didn't know was there! That shall never happen - I shall tear myself to pieces before giving anyone else the pleasure! Ha. I know how crazy it is. You know how crazy your state of being feels. As you also doubtless know, being aware of your own self-destructive behaviour doesn't make it vanish.

I wish I could say the condition eases, but I think it is (for me) a childhood echo that actually builds every time it repeats. I seem to be growing more vicious with myself as the years pass.
On top of all previous self-hatred I can now add disgust with my aging body and a sense of betrayal that it has failed me in no longer being youthful, strong, energetic.

In short, the more I do, the less I amount to. I'm simply not good enough.

There must be some analogy for leaching the bitterness out of our souls. Ash. Olives are inedible unless treated with something caustic. That traditionally used to be wood-ash and something. And ashes are the "robes of mourning" in many cultures.

What am I on about? I suspect this state has something to do with an inability to grieve. Unless the pain of loss is somehow externalised, we turn it against ourselves as some kind of punishment for not preventing or avoiding or achieving (or for caring about at all) whatever object, goal or circumstance in the first place. Are you punishing yourself for caring so much about going to college, and failing to anticipate your rejection?

Dare I counsel another to do what I cannot? Go roll in some ashes for pity's sake. Grieve.

[orange]

I would say:
1) decide what you want to do.
2) find out how much education you need.
3) if you need to go to a school like the ones that rejected you figure out why you were rejected and fix that problem.
4) make it happen

I know, very easy to say; very difficult to do.

[Circe]

Have you thought about a transfer program? I know it's a route that a lot of kids around here take because of money- they attend community college for two years, then apply to another more elite school and transfer there.

[mind_wander]

For me, I would say during Junior High is when, I felt very upset. Too much responsibilities hit my shoulder and wanted personal space, but didn't get the chance to grieve, as Orange mentioned. Once, your caught in the tangle of life. You do not have the personal space, you required to have. As for not getting into a college that your originally wanted. Dude, I got rejected 2x, so yeah am I upset. Heck yes, do I cared that kind of burden carryon with me and say, "hey, why they keep on doing this to me. I am special too." You got to understand a college degree is a college degree on paper. When you give that to your new employer they see the name of the college, but your true job is to give the employer want to know what kind of qualities and skills you learned from going into College. In the end, it comes down to the same thing, College degree is just paper; you job is to bring that college degree into a living entity.

I hope this clarify this, sorry if I make you upset. Maybe, you comment, effect me to make a big statement.

[rwyatt365]

I wonder what I could possibly say to assist you in some way. I know that we are our worst critics, that no one else is as hard on us as we ourselves are. Does that bring any solace? I doubt it, because – if you're like most of us – you already know this.

You feel a sense of failure because of not getting into the schools that you applied to. I can understand the feeling of rejection and being left behind. But now is not the time for retreat; from your family, from your friends, from the world. Now is the time to attack! You are re-evaluating your goals – that's good. But don't throw away your dreams to settle for less. If you are INTJ you have the mind and the drive to achieve any dream that you desire. Like orange says; decide what you want to do, chart a course, and make it happen. Those schools that didn't accept you don't know what they have missed, make them jealous of the school that does!

Just don't lay down and die. You (and all of us) are too precious a resource to the world to just give up. You want a reason to go on? The world needs you (it just doesn't realize it yet), how about that?! I'm not a good cheerleader, I just try to speak what I know to be true. And the truth is that all INTJs are the ones that make the world WORK. So don't cheat yourself out of your destiny, and don't cheat us out of your company. Get up out of your 'deathbed' and become what you want to become.


Damn…did I just say all of that?!

[mind_wander]

Just don't lay down and die. You (and all of us) are too precious a resource to the world to just give up. You want a reason to go on? The world needs you (it just doesn't realize it yet), how about that?! I'm not a good cheerleader, I just try to speak what I know to be true. And the truth is that all INTJs are the ones that make the world WORK. So don't cheat yourself out of your destiny, and don't cheat us out of your company. Get up out of your 'deathbed' and become what you want to become.


Damn…did I just say all of that?!

thanx, Rwyatt. I am not a good cheerleader because I am a dude[no female]. Your point exactly, "The world needs you (it just doesn't realize it yet), how about that?! I'm not a good cheerleader, I just try to speak what I know to be true. And the truth is that all INTJs are the ones that make the world WORK." I concluded, the samething, at the very end.

[Paul V]

I'll give you the simplest advice I can, since I tend to write long posts:

Stop buying expensive things and start saving. Get a loan. Work out a payment plan. Gather enough cash to be able to afford the university you want.

But above all: Don't let your fears and doubts take over! They are feelings and you're a logical person! You cannot let them rule your behaviour, or you'll never get out of your current situation!

You need to start thinking logically. Set up some goals and plan a way (several ways would be better, actually) to fulfill them. The key here is "DON'T GIVE UP, DAMMIT!"

[Rei]

I've been in a sort of a hole like that myself... I'm also a year (and a little bit) out of high school.

What I keep telling myself is that everything requires sacrifice... there's always a trade off. Find your direction, and work at it tirelessly. Refuse to be defeated. What you have to get yourself to do is DARE to sacrifice your time and energy. Whatever happens, you got there on your own, and that is WORTH double of your friends' achievements. Even if you don't end up where you want to be right away, it will be a step forward. Staying in the same place... well... never gets you anywhere.

REFUSE TO BE DEFEATED!

[mind_wander]

Basically, all the INTJ supporting cheerleaders comments: REFUSE TO BE DEFEATED! DON'T EVER GIVE UP, DAMMIT! CONTINUE AND THINK LOGICALLY! YOUR AN INTJ!

[xtremegeek]

HMF...I'm an introvert too (albeit of the SJ type) and even I have hit that very rut you describe. Some of the best advice I received to help me lift myself out of that rut was from and ENFP - odd ain't it?! Anyhow, I asked him how he can be so upbeat all the time and accomplish such 'material' goals (he's in sales) on such a consistent level. He showed me his "vision board." At the beginning of each year, he decides what he wants to accomplish for that year. Then he goes through magazines and newspaper, cutting out pictures which reflect what he wants to achieve and pastes them on a poster board. He then posts his vision board in his bathroom, so it's the first thing he sees in the morning and the last thing he sees at night before he goes to bed.

I tried it this year, and it really helped to keep me focused on what makes me happy (not necessarily material things for me.) And it turned my mental goals into tangible, visual reminders for me. Your inspiration needs to come from within...but so does your hope. The vision board simply reminds you of this.

[mind_wander]

HMF...I'm an introvert too (albeit of the SJ type) and even I have hit that very rut you describe. Some of the best advice I received to help me lift myself out of that rut was from and ENFP - odd ain't it?! Anyhow, I asked him how he can be so upbeat all the time and accomplish such 'material' goals (he's in sales) on such a consistent level. He showed me his "vision board." At the beginning of each year, he decides what he wants to accomplish for that year. Then he goes through magazines and newspaper, cutting out pictures which reflect what he wants to achieve and pastes them on a poster board. He then posts his vision board in his bathroom, so it's the first thing he sees in the morning and the last thing he sees at night before he goes to bed.

I tried it this year, and it really helped to keep me focused on what makes me happy (not necessarily material things for me.) And it turned my mental goals into tangible, visual reminders for me. Your inspiration needs to come from within...but so does your hope. The vision board simply reminds you of this.

I never met, an ENFP it is said, INTJ's/ENFP is very compatible. Sure it would be nice :)

[HMF]

First off, a big thanks to everyone who responded. Short or long, I took away something from each post so far. I can understand that it may be difficult to effectively provide solace to someone like me who really shouldn't be acting this way.

I have been making an effort to lay out some kind of strategy for the future. I do maintain high grades, although it's not really out of interest for the subject but more for a requirement for transfer success; oh and it's my own money funding the tuition.

I think I need to work under a different paradigm now. I don't know what it is yet though. Maybe change my definition of success until I find myself in a position to go back to my old definition. For once in my life I'll have to reason it's ok to crawl before learning to walk.

[Henry]

So with no real family support, no friend support, I'm finding myself without any real direction or without any pride in being an INTJ. I've sort of reduced myself into being a workaholic at my job, working 60 hours a week while attending a community college. It's made me even more cynical and bitter about myself and others that I can't keep a positive notion on anything. So bitter that my friends don't want to talk to me anymore and I can absolutely see why they wouldn't. I don't want to talk to me. .

Don't think that JC is the end of the world. You will work hard and get a 4 while you are there, and then go to an excellent school. Its what i did, because I was far more interested in breasts and tackling in high school than books. Wound up graduating from a very good school.

The 15 or so per hour you can earn is pennies on the dollar of what a good education will be worth.

[blueback]

Wow, dude. You are learning first-hand that INTJs have emotions whether they want to or not.

I actually know how you feel, with the isolation and the lack of direction. I was lucky enough to decide to join the military after high school. It was the best single decision I ever made. I can't go back and live my life over again making different decisions, but I really think I wouldn't have accomplished very much if I had gone to college instead of joined the service. I didn't get the chance to indulge my isolation because I HAD to interact with people and I didn't get the chance to indulge my lack of direction because my superiors GAVE me one. However, it's more than just being handed things. The military, like a coach, forced me through personal development step-by-step.

I think that is the key; personal development. Everyone needs it and I think INTJs need it more than most. We are so good at intuiting when things don't work that, if WE don't work, we will tear ourselves to pieces. Of course, if we're busy undermining our own confidence we will never be able to fix the problem. I think joining a service is really good for our personality type because we can just go with the flow. It takes a certain amount of time to accumulate enough successes to feel good about ourselves and serving gives you that time.

I'm not saying that you should joing the military. BTW, if you do I suggest the Air Force cuz we have the highest standard of living and almost the lowest death rate. What I'm saying is that you MUST develop yourself. You HAVE to accumulate successes and you HAVE to remove weak habits from yourself. You really need to be able to look in the bathroom mirror and honestly think "I'm hot shit!" whithout any little doubts tugging at the back of your mind. As an INTJ you will only be able to honestly think that when it is actually true.

The only way you will develop that kind of confidence in yourself is to overcome a lot of difficult challenges. For example, I have been through three basic training programs, am in the best shape of my life, and will graduate from one of the best colleges in the country. I am usually neat and clean, I always take care of my business eventually, and I can fake extroversion so well I can actually fool people sometimes. There's more, but the point is that you need to be able to make lists like that so that you swell with pride in yourself. You need to go looking for challenges to overcome.

However, the hard part is doing it. As and INTJ you will probably find yourself pulled in a lot of different directions and it will be hard to justify focusing on only one. I suggest finding someone who will make you focus. A coach, a mentor, a slave driver, etc. Someone won't let you get away with not achieveing your goal. The military did that for me, maybe you can find someone or something else that will fill the same void.

At the bare minimum just start doing something you are good at. Then start doing something you aren't good at, but think is valuable to learn. Then find something that is just plain difficult and enjoy the pain of doing it. You could start with pushups. Do as many pushups as you can without stopping, then double that number and do a set to exhaustion three times a day until you reach the new number. The pain you have to push through to increase the number of pushups you can do is the same sort of pain you have to push through to accomplish anything else, it's just more obvious.

[Nomad]

Actually, Blueback has a very,very good point. I joined the military because I had no place to go, in a somewhat similar situation to your own. I had pretty much the same experience as Blueback. I'd add a thought, but he said it quite well. Read it again, it's really good advice.

-Nomad