How to Hate Your Life:

[AliTree]

(only applies to Americans)
learn and think about the economy.
instant depression.


my AP gov/econ teacher took a huge chunk out of class today to cover "current events", which he proceeded to talk about only the economy and everything that went down this weekend.
i can safely say that i have never left a classroom so depressed in my life.
the entire class was depressed and silent.


*sigh*

[Moriarty]

Welcome to adulthood. There's a bright side, though. You can soon handle your insecurities the adult way: with booze.

[Undead Bonzi]

Try being a graduate level student nearing graduation and being told by several professionals in the field that if things keep going south you won't be finding a job....and then we spent the rest of the class talking about all the ways and reasons we can get sued by clients and lawyers. It would have been a good day to skip.

[CaptainA]

Sadly Ali it is not just this country. We (Americans) influence greatly the rest of the world.

And Moriarty! Shame on you for driving her to drink.

[DrEast]

Austrian economic theory predicts a crash (more specifically, a boom-bust business cycle) in any debt-based, fiat currency economic model. Given the enormity of this boom, a second great depression bust is inevitable. Any attempt to put it off will be expensive and have no long-term effect but to make it worse.

Short version: Ron Paul told you so.

That said, all hope is not lost. Proper perspective is vital in these situations. Our grandparents survived the great depression; our parents brought us to the second one. Now the cycle begins anew.

If you've placed your hope in your economy, your money, your future or your nation, you've already made a bad first step. Do not place your hope in anything in this temporal world, or you will find yourself ultimately despairing. These things all ultimately fail and fade.

I'd tell you where I put my hope, but there apparently stopped being a religion forum here a while ago.

[Moriarty]

I'd tell you where I put my hope, but there apparently stopped being a religion forum here a while ago.

The INTJ economy could no longer support religion. Cuts had to be made in order to maintain the Arts (The Lounge).

CptA: You've made an excellent point. Juvenile delinquency is never a laughing matter nor is it to be encouraged. I intend to do my part in launching a new grass-roots effort at eradicating alcoholic beverage via mass consumption. It's the only sure way to give Ali a shot at a productive future in the shadow of looming economic crisis. I should start with all the Thunderbird I can find, since it's the most accessible at the lower economic strata.

[TheLastMohican]

I don't find the current happenings so automatically depressing. Like DrEast points out, Ron Paul told you so. So did Milton Friedman, starting in the '70s. The really unfortunate part is that the government reacts with more bandaid regulation. It's like binding an unclean wound. Instead of letting an infection grow underneath the wrappings, it would be better to let it bleed awhile and heal itself. Forget AIG, I say. It's not like its collapse would destroy the market. It would make room for competitors, which would grow to fill the gap.
I wish I could see what could have been if we had a free market and a small government. For now I can only daydream about how I would do it better.

You can soon handle your insecurities the adult way: with booze.

I LOL'd.

[AliTree]

Welcome to adulthood. There's a bright side, though. You can soon handle your insecurities the adult way: with booze.

Sadly Ali it is not just this country. We (Americans) influence greatly the rest of the world.

And Moriarty! Shame on you for driving her to drink.

lawld at bot of the above XD
& yes captainA, i know that. but i didn't want to dive into any other country's problems since i don't know about them myself.

I'd tell you where I put my hope, but there apparently stopped being a religion forum here a while ago.

nah, it's alright. i'm a rarity on this forum w/ you. i believe in God. (gasp)

[blueback]

There are always opportunities; success is just a matter of recognizing them and being willing to do what's necessary.

If the economy's going down, buy into necessities. If the economy's going up, buy into luxuries. If everything falls into the crapper, buy a gun.

[Tenacious B]

Forget AIG, I say. It's not like its collapse would destroy the market. It would make room for competitors, which would grow to fill the gap.

I'm Tenacious B and I approve this message.

[Tyrant Soup]

I don't think an economic depression is a bad thing. People will continue to act recklessly if they are cushioned from the natural consequences of their actions.

Reckless speculation drove housing prices beyond what an average income could sustain. The natural consequence should be for prices to fall and speculators to lose their investments. Why should you and I cover their losses?

We need a recession to cleanse the incompetent out of the economy.

[DrEast]

I don't think an economic depression is a bad thing. People will continue to act recklessly if they are cushioned from the natural consequences of their actions.

Reckless speculation drove housing prices beyond what an average income could sustain. The natural consequence should be for prices to fall and speculators to lose their investments. Why should you and I cover their losses?

We need a recession to cleanse the incompetent out of the economy.

But a Ponzi scheme must have a bailout! Else why engage in one at all?

[PHS Philip]

I don't find the current happenings so automatically depressing. Like DrEast points out, Ron Paul told you so. So did Milton Friedman, starting in the '70s. The really unfortunate part is that the government reacts with more bandaid regulation. It's like binding an unclean wound. Instead of letting an infection grow underneath the wrappings, it would be better to let it bleed awhile and heal itself. Forget AIG, I say. It's not like its collapse would destroy the market. It would make room for competitors, which would grow to fill the gap.
I wish I could see what could have been if we had a free market and a small government. For now I can only daydream about how I would do it better.

The free market has issues; for instance, a major company whose collapse would put a big dent in the market, and that can grow larger still by taking irresponsible risks, may well do so in the free market (yes, I know this isn't an instance of that because these were still regulated). It's not just an issue of not using the company, because the average person doesn't know anything about it, really. Competent regulation is rare, but if we can manage competent regulation, it is vastly preferable to the free market.

[DrEast]

The free market has issues; for instance, a major company whose collapse would put a big dent in the market, and that can grow larger still by taking irresponsible risks, may well do so in the free market (yes, I know this isn't an instance of that because these were still regulated). It's not just an issue of not using the company, because the average person doesn't know anything about it, really. Competent regulation is rare, but if we can manage competent regulation, it is vastly preferable to the free market.

Well, the free market does burn fools (people who put their trust where it isn't warranted). Most people are fools, so it will burn a lot of people (not permanently, just temporarily, but it will still hurt).

But that's not a bug. It's a feature.

[zippikay]

Try being a graduate level student nearing graduation and being told by several professionals in the field that if things keep going south you won't be finding a job....and then we spent the rest of the class talking about all the ways and reasons we can get sued by clients and lawyers. It would have been a good day to skip.

try being fresh graduate and finish the school with finance major in this market condition :)

my take, i sense something wrong...
oil price goes up then goes back down, explaining certain speculation in affecting price, instead of problem in supply
stock pummeling, lehman goes down despite their effort to contain their customers' panic, and look at the reinstatement of uptick rule (no more short selling)

perhaps some people is playing the psych and playing the market and thus the government and those people in goldman sachs would scatter for holding status and converting to commercial bank style, not to mention the bailout?

the fact alone is funny, nothing is really wrong with anything, the market only reverting itself by kicking out those people who are not supposed to have credit... but people start to panic and bring the economy spiraling down, thus the self fulfilling prophecy...

i know i should be worry about me finding a job, but i can't help but to be fascinated with the current condition

[PHS Philip]

Well, the free market does burn fools (people who put their trust where it isn't warranted). Most people are fools, so it will burn a lot of people (not permanently, just temporarily, but it will still hurt).

But that's not a bug. It's a feature.

The free market works in part through boom bust cycles, do you agree? If so, would you also agree that this is often exacerbated by the regulation we have? And finally, would you also agree that the regulation we have tends to be poorly thought out, and stupid (even if it is assumed that regulation can help)? That's not just individuals getting burned, it's the whole system.

[DrEast]

The free market works in part through boom bust cycles, do you agree? If so, would you also agree that this is often exacerbated by the regulation we have? And finally, would you also agree that the regulation we have tends to be poorly thought out, and stupid (even if it is assumed that regulation can help)? That's not just individuals getting burned, it's the whole system.

The boom/bust cycle is massively moved along by the debt-based currency system we have, of course. Getting rid of that would be a wondrous, beautiful thing to everyone but the people actually setting our policy. If you'll excuse my cynicism.

Without a fiat currency, the booms and busts are of course existent (that's the market correcting for over-investment, after all), but much smoother and less brutal to those trying to make an honest living.

But even in America, individuals can divorce themselves from that cycle. Like I said, a fool is anyone who puts their trust where it isn't warranted. America, as a whole, hasn't warranted that trust for decades. But not all companies operate on credit. The first thing you should do when considering job security is to consider the security of your employer. Any leverage, at all, is risk. Period.

What you don't know can kill you.

Right now I'd recommend that one of the wiser moves would be to invest in commodities, because it looks like hyperinflation's on the way, even knocking at the door. Guns and food, for a start.

[SeaCzar]

What goes up must come down. But the opposite is true as well. There may yet be one silver bullet to turn everything around: declining oil prices.

[PHS Philip]

What goes up must come down. But the opposite is true as well. There may yet be one silver bullet to turn everything around: declining oil prices.

Which will shoot back up come summer, probably.

I hate to say it, but I think that we're going to have a real economic collapse sooner or later. Not a huge spike down like this, but a real collapse. And not just economic, either. The US as a whole has operated on the "keep it running, keep it running, patch it, keep it running" philosophy for too long. Eventually you need to really stop and fix the problem, not just patch it. Keeping it running just makes the inevitable worse when it happens. If one tire blows out on your car, you're probably OK. But if all 4 tires are made entirely of patches, your breaks are bits of rubber you glued to the worn out pads, your engine's one big mass of jury rigged replacements, and your steering column's a temporary wood replacement, everything will go wrong at once.

I doubt it will be "collapse of civilization" level collapse or anything, but it sure won't be pretty.

[rwyatt365]

Don't worry Ali. Between global warming, the hole in the ozone layer, the imminent collapse of the earth's magnetic field, and a catastrophic meteorite/comet collision - economic collapse is nothing to be concerned about.

[Monte314]

Oh, don't be so gloomy. Soon I'll retire, and the liberal politicians that young people so adore will guarantee that you young folks out there will continue to devote an increasing portion of your shrinking income to wasteful social programs that make fat, indolent geezers like me fatter and more indolent...

...or...

...we can throw the bums out, and install some fiscal sanity. Tell them to let me pay my own bills. Insist that you be allowed to take home the money that you earned. And demand that they quit tinkering with the economy.

[PHS Philip]

Monte, it's irrelevant to me. My generation will spend literally our entire lives paying off the debts incurred by our government in the last 8 years regardless :p

[TheLastMohican]

Competent regulation is rare, but if we can manage competent regulation, it is vastly preferable to the free market.

That's probably true. Logically I think there must exist (theoretically) a set of regulations that would result in a better and fairer economy than a totally free one. The problem is that no one knows what that set is, and politicians pretend that they do, resulting in frequent disaster if the idea of regulation is promoted.





TheLastMohican added to this post, 1 minutes and 1 seconds later...

Don't worry Ali. Between global warming, the hole in the ozone layer, the imminent collapse of the earth's magnetic field, and a catastrophic meteorite/comet collision - economic collapse is nothing to be concerned about.
Suddenly my day is so much brighter.

[DrEast]

Monte, it's irrelevant to me. My generation will spend literally our entire lives paying off the debts incurred by our government in the last 8 years regardless :p

Historically, when a generation is enslaved to debt, the result has been rebellion. It's not pretty.

[ScurvyRose]

Sadly Ali it is not just this country. We (Americans) influence greatly the rest of the world.

And Moriarty! Shame on you for driving her to drink.

At least there is a designated driver!

Don't worry Ali. Between global warming, the hole in the ozone layer, the imminent collapse of the earth's magnetic field, and a catastrophic meteorite/comet collision - economic collapse is nothing to be concerned about.

And lets not forget about CERN!