Great Minds Ignored by Society or Remembered Wrong [Archive]

Avid

09-01-2008, 07:51 PM

How many people of some importance to YOU are you aware of that have been snubbed out of history due to their religion or color or some other ridiculous concept despite having very valuable ideas/inventions? (I'm actually making a list by this point)

Nikola Tesla....he never adapted to a particular religion...this why he was partially snubbed?

sriv

09-01-2008, 07:57 PM

Machiavelli, who I am currently obsessing over, was slapped in the face by society after ignoring ethics for the most part in the Prince.
Hehehe, the Pope made it a prohibited book.

Mozzes

09-01-2008, 08:18 PM

I don't think Tesla is looked down because of any religious reason. He's hardly the first non-religious man of eminence. He's even highly celebrated in certain circles. He was one of the fathers of the second industrial revolution, invented wireless communication (along many other things) and made contributions to classical electricity and magnetism.

The problem seems to be that in retrospect he's taken a hit in credibility due to his intense criticism of Einstein's general relativity (and perhaps quantum mechanics as well - I'm not as sure about this). He was firmly rooted in classical physics. He's also associated both directly and indirectly with various pseudoscientific theories and conspiracy theories.

Regardless I'd say he's still much better known than people like David Baltimore, Andrew Wiles and Paul Dirac.

Edit: I guess I'd add William James Sidis to this discussion. He was an eccentric prodigy that never could quite adapt to public infatuation and was considered an intellectual failure during his lifetime. It was only later discovered that written fairly prolifically under various pseudonyms throughout his life producing highly original theories in various fields including mathematics and cosmology.

PHS Philip

09-01-2008, 08:26 PM

Lamarck

Avid

09-01-2008, 08:32 PM

Mostly I'm just tired of mentioning Nikola Tesla with a common man and the response I get is huh? Everybody knows Einstein and while you can't compare them in terms of values I've established Tesla ranks up there with him.

I also find it funny how he invented the technology for free wireless power (Look up the Wireless Power Transmitter on google pattents by Tesla). Yet that asshole Edison gets more attention but its his fault everyone has to pay for regulated power through a grid.

Some of those names I need to look into. Thanks guys.

Autoptic

09-01-2008, 08:44 PM

I think Tesla invented the radio by accident too. It was a potential use he only mentioned in passing for something he invented for a different reason. That ignores some farmer that supposedly beat everyone to not only radio but voice over radio.

I posted then deleted Max Stirner. Some people, who actually run into his book today, think he plagiarized Nietzsche when he predated him, and it was possibly the other way around.

'Edited to clarify.

Mozzes

09-01-2008, 08:49 PM

Hypatia - did good work in mathematics and science during the 4th and 5th centuries AD. Was a staunch defender of science and logic against dogmatic religion and mysticism and was a woman to boot.

Various writings also suggest she may have been among the first instances of Christian-motivated witch prosecution.

I'd be shocked if many people knew that name today.

PHS Philip

09-01-2008, 09:18 PM

Mozzes

09-01-2008, 09:24 PM

Didn't the Church essentially take Hypatia, switch her religion, and called her St. Catherine?

It depends on who you ask but a lot of scholars think that's what happened.

ssrprotege

09-01-2008, 09:40 PM

Machiavelli, who I am currently obsessing over, was slapped in the face by society after ignoring ethics for the most part in the Prince.
Hehehe, the Pope made it a prohibited book.

Yeah, I read his Prince. Pretty "revolutionary" at that time period. But his perspective seems to agree with my cynicism. Even though the Pope and de Medici slapped him, some politicians hid that book under the pillow not to be caught. Well, as far as power is concerned. It works!

GuerrillaVoyage

09-01-2008, 10:00 PM

Oppenheimer was virtually exiled from the scientific community after giving the United States the Atomic Bomb and completing the greatest engineering feat in human history because he had some left political beliefs. Meanwhile the government looked the other way for Oppenheimer's entire A-Bomb work and once they didn't need him anymore they booted him out and denounced him. Unbelievably wrong in retrospect.

The madness of the atomic age and cold war is so fascinating to read about.

TheLastMohican

09-01-2008, 10:21 PM

I'm a little surprised to hear that these people are considered obscure. The only one I am not familiar with so far is Max Stirner.
I think Alan Turing has been largely forgotten for a reason pertinent to the OP: he was arrested for being homosexual. He had a lot of brilliant work left in him when he committed suicide. Sad story.
I also find Tesla fascinating. I wonder how much he thought of that we will never know about.

ssrprotege

09-01-2008, 10:35 PM

I think Alan Turing has been lagely forgotten for a reason pertinent to the OP: he was arrested for being homosexual. He had a lot of brilliant work left in him when he committed suicide. Sad story.

Shame on me for forgetting to mention him. He did a great work in cracking Germany's Enigma. I think he was, strictly speaking, the first one to come up with a programmable computer, again to decipher messages encrypted by Enigma. Even though the Allies ended up stealing the codebook, it was innovative. Too bad he happened to reveal his being homosexual.

Avid

09-01-2008, 10:42 PM

I'm a little surprised to hear that these people are considered obscure. The only one I am not familiar with so far is Max Stirner.
I think Alan Turing has been lagely forgotten for a reason pertinent to the OP: he was arrested for being homosexual. He had a lot of brilliant work left in him when he committed suicide. Sad story.
I also find Tesla fascinating. I wonder how much he thought of that we will never know about.

I have an odd interest in Tesla as well. I trust his judgement of not passing his "forbidden" technology but I still wonder what all he knew. I spend a long time figuring out his goals past what was released and what he might done in a more balanced world. I have some theories about his objectives though given his trend of energy

Lot of these names I haven't seen or I observed them in a shallow way (go go American education!). Anyway, I'm having fun looking them up.

TheLastMohican

09-01-2008, 10:46 PM

Shame on me for forgetting to mention him. He did a great work in cracking Germany's Enigma. I think he was, strictly speaking, the first one to come up with a programmable computer, again to decipher messages encrypted by Enigma. Even though the Allies ended up stealing the codebook, it was innovative.

Don't forget his Turing Test. It remains the standard goal for our advancements in artificial intelligence.

Too bad he happened to reveal his being homosexual.

Actually it was discovered inadvertently by police who were documenting a burglary at his house. He was ordered by the court to be injected with hormones that caused him to grow breasts along with other problems (very likely worsening his already expected depression). If not for all that causing him to kill himself, I think he would have taken us a good deal farther in our computer age for another decade at least.

TheLastMohican added to this post, 1 minutes and 8 seconds later...

It's nice to see Hypatia has been mentioned, btw.

notoppings

09-02-2008, 03:41 AM

ssrprotege

09-02-2008, 08:37 AM

It's nice to see Hypatia has been mentioned, btw.

Yeah, a female mathematician there, who was basically killed for being a female mathematician. Another example of one of the greatest female mathematicians is Sophie Germain, who provided an interesting perspective in attacking Fermat's Last Theorem. She corresponded with Gauss, who tried to give her an honourary degree; but shd died just before. I feel so bad that only a small percentage of population can appreciate her mathematical passion and her work.

ssrprotege added to this post, 1 minutes and 57 seconds later...

Actually it was discovered inadvertently by police who were documenting a burglary at his house. He was ordered by the court to be injected with hormones that caused him to grow breasts along with other problems (very likely worsening his already expected depression). If not for all that causing him to kill himself, I think he would have taken us a good deal farther in our computer age for another decade at least.

Either I remember some of the details incorrectly or the book itself (Simon Singh's the Code Book) didn't present the story accurately.

TheLastMohican

09-02-2008, 08:47 AM

Another example of one of the greatest female mathematicians is Sophie Germain, who provided an interesting perspective in attacking Fermat's Last Theorem. She corresponded with Gauss, who tried to give her an honourary degree; but shd died just before. I feel so bad that only a small percentage of population can appreciate her mathematical passion and her work.

I don't think I've ever heard of her. (Now that's more like it! ;)) I'll look her up, since I am also quite interested in the histories of both Fermat and Gauss.

Either I remember some of the details incorrectly or the book itself (Simon Singh's the Code Book) didn't present the story accurately.

I learned the details of his arrest when I read TGD, and it was referenced again in Physics of the Impossible. The same events are described in wiki:

Turing was homosexual, and at that time homosexuality was illegal in the United Kingdom, regarded as a mental illness and subject to criminal sanctions. In 1952, Arnold Murray, a 19-year-old recent acquaintance of his, helped an accomplice to break into Turing's house, and Turing went to the police to report the crime. As a result of the police investigation, Turing acknowledged a sexual relationship with Murray, and a crime having been identified and settled, they were charged with gross indecency under Section 11 of the Criminal Law Amendment Act of 1905. Turing was unrepentant and was convicted of the same crime Oscar Wilde had been convicted of more than fifty years before.

blueback

09-02-2008, 01:48 PM

Machiavelli, who I am currently obsessing over, was slapped in the face by society after ignoring ethics for the most part in the Prince.

Whatever. Machiavelli brought it on himself. He specifically said in The Prince that it is important not to tell the public what your real intentions are. . .then he published his intentions and signed the book. He also attached the name of a powerful family to his book of ideas that he himself thought shouldn't be publicly known; they HAD to crush him to preserve their image.

That is why I'm not telling anyone about how I plan to rule the world.

moon

09-02-2008, 02:54 PM

When i saw the thread name, Nikola Tesla first came up on my mind.

I don't think Tesla is looked down because of any religious reason. He's hardly the first non-religious man of eminence. He's even highly celebrated in certain circles. He was one of the fathers of the second industrial revolution, invented wireless communication (along many other things) and made contributions to classical electricity and magnetism.
Absolutely.

Tesla's main problem was financial. Possible inventors was sceptical about his ideas and didn't give him a real chance to prove it. He was constantly forced to convince wealth manifacturer for donations. That really slowed down his improvements, and he had a bad luck too, when his lab burn to the ground.

I think Tesla invented the radio by accident too.
Yeah, he invented. Accidentaly, don't know. Many of his inventions was referred to others. Besides, he get over it and kept focused to give this world as much as he can. What kind of man was that, amazing!
I am proud that Tesla is a Serbian. World is not aware how much we lost by Tesla death and not giving him all support and conditions for his work.

I have an odd interest in Tesla as well. I trust his judgement of not passing his "forbidden" technology but I still wonder what all he knew.

If you didn't read, i recommend you:
Margaret Cheney - Tesla:Man Out of Time.

enWTFp

09-02-2008, 03:28 PM

Silence

09-02-2008, 03:43 PM

Tesla absolutely came to mind when I saw this list. I was enormously gratified to see that the Croatian government declared 2006 to be the "Year of Nikola Tesla". I'd heard the museum dedicated to his accomplishments was damaged in the war, but I hope they were able to restore it.

I hadn't heard that the radio was invented by accident- only that that insipid ratfink snake Marconi claimed that he invented it- while using 17 of Tesla's patents. Not until 1943 did the US Supreme Court pull its collective head from its butt to reverse the decision and award tesla the patent that Marconi had stolen.

I have to wonder what Nikola Tesla would have accomplished had he had all of the financial backers he needed. I can only imagine the highs and lows he had in his life- the invention of alternating current, the destruction of his Colorado Springs lab, and the struggle to maintain Wardenclyffe Tower.

Lately, I've noticed a trend in books being written about Tesla, and many of these allude to some paranormal crap and speculation about hollow earth theories and other such claptrap. I'm reading a biography on him called "Wizard: the life and times of Nikola Tesla" that's pretty good so far. PBS ran a show on him as well, and Discovery listed him among the 100 Greatest Americans. Slowly but surely, people are recognizing one of the founding fathers of electrical technology.

I'm a bit of a fan.

sriv

09-02-2008, 07:43 PM

Many of the 'snubbed' so called 'great' minds simply didn't care as much about 'recognition'.

The mind seeks truth. That is its ultimate satisfaction.

I would be happy if as many people knew about Maxwell, as about Einstein.
Correction, Ti seeks truth.

Whatever. Machiavelli brought it on himself. He specifically said in The Prince that it is important not to tell the public what your real intentions are. . .then he published his intentions and signed the book. He also attached the name of a powerful family to his book of ideas that he himself thought shouldn't be publicly known; they HAD to crush him to preserve their image.

That is why I'm not telling anyone about how I plan to rule the world.

He may have signed the book, but it was published after he died. I do think that he wanted to be rewarded for his acheivements and his self-proclaimed highly original thinking.
Maybe he wanted to earn the Prince's trust by opening him up to his true intentions. Eh..idk.

blueback

09-02-2008, 09:51 PM

He wanted to be respected for his thoughts, not for his accomplishments. That is why he published his thoughts when his own advice was not to publish your thoughts. That is why he never got the chance to accomplish anything, he cared more about thinking. Maybe he as a 'P.'

I think he had some really good insights. Because I think that, I'm not about to tell anyone that I think he had some good insights. At least, no one who cares. He was spot-on about how the world will react to you when they know what you're thinking vs how they will react to you when you get things done. The problem is that pointing out the difference means that you will never get the chance to make a difference.

The same thing can probably be said about Tesla. He cared more about thinking than about succeeding. If he had cared about succeeding he would have spent some time on that and would have gotten rich but invented less. It's a trade off.

enWTFp

09-02-2008, 11:33 PM

The mind seeks truth. That is its ultimate satisfaction.
Correction, Ti seeks truth.Hope this doesn't imply Ti's don't have minds.

sriv

09-03-2008, 06:21 AM

He wanted to be respected for his thoughts, not for his accomplishments. That is why he published his thoughts when his own advice was not to publish your thoughts. That is why he never got the chance to accomplish anything, he cared more about thinking. Maybe he as a 'P.'

I think he had some really good insights. Because I think that, I'm not about to tell anyone that I think he had some good insights. At least, no one who cares. He was spot-on about how the world will react to you when they know what you're thinking vs how they will react to you when you get things done. The problem is that pointing out the difference means that you will never get the chance to make a difference.
Heheh, I would think of original thoughts as accomplishments in and of themselves.

Hope this doesn't imply Ti's don't have minds.
No, Ti seeks truth for it's own sake. Te seeks practical benefit.

enWTFp

09-03-2008, 07:53 AM

No, Ti seeks truth for it's own sake. Te seeks practical benefit.Application is truth. 'Truth for it's own sake' could be useless.

Practical benefit for the society is not measured by personal recognition. Public opinion's always been just a farce led by media and historians. Even the recent Internet movement in support of Tesla is only a trend to follow, although he fully deserves it.

sMoKeY

09-05-2008, 07:43 PM

Society always ignores smart people, the don't consider what smart people have to say, they only realise that they should have listened to the smart guy when its too late.

Bioplasmoid

10-27-2008, 10:07 PM

After Tesla, I was intrigued by Edward Leedskalnin. His *Coral Castle* in Florida is still a mystery today with stones weighing up to 35 tons the question of how a single 100 pound man was able to construct by himself without modern equipment and then move that same castle which took him 20 years to build almost overnight to another location. He wrote several books on magnetism some of which you can find online. He was obsessed with Lay lines and magnets. Check him out.

Yes I would also agree that this Individual, is unrecognised in his Achievements, to put it very mildly. Its remarkable how many people have not heard of him, or either downplay his achievements in masonry, and his unique (if yet flawed) take on magnetic science. I think the block and tackle theories don't quite add up, and are based on confirmational bias, although it may be just as much the case with apologists like me, by the same measure in reverse. I'm pleased to see I'm not alone in giving thought and consideration to mavericks like this...Kudos to you 'notoppings'. :) Whoever built the Pyramid of Cheops,may have inspired Leedskalnin, to excellence!

*Imagines a Vimana melodically shooting past in the sky, on last keystroke of the sentence*

Valiyn

10-27-2008, 11:43 PM

B.H Liddell Hart

Ool

10-28-2008, 03:30 AM

Giordano Bruno.
(To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)
“Jesus Christ may have died for you guys, but Giordano Bruno is my personal martyr,” is what I sometimes say to people in debates…

taintedkitty

10-28-2008, 04:28 AM

Rosalind Franklin

General gist - A female scientist who used x-ray crystallography to determine the structure of DNA.
Watson and Crick were wrong when they created their models, (phosphate backbone inside, bases outside) and obtained her image the day before they were due to present their model. They made some quick fixes.
She dies of cancer. They were awarded the Nobel Prize.

Well... she was obscure to me.

LaoTzu

10-29-2008, 05:23 PM

Benedict de Spinoza

He argued about an infinite God, that spans everything and everyone at all times... basically, that God Is EVERYTHING in the universe; down to the atomic level (and sub-atomic had they knew of it back then)

He got shouted down about free-will , and pissed off the religious 'right' and has not been given the proper treatment for what i think is a VERY sound theory.

(sound for the fact that I independently came up with the same theory.... once I read of Spinoza, the theory I was going to publish went in the trash :P )

ame

10-30-2008, 09:11 AM