INTJ and INTP Differences

[Jezebel]

In many ways these types resemble each other. Both are introverted rationals that place a high value on logic, knowledge and competence. They often share a similar outlook on life. Many people test borderline (including myself), though many claim that these two types are very different.

The major, generally accepted differences are:

INTPs:

open ended
can be satisfied with just gaining knowledge and understanding without action
behind the scenes/informative communication style
spontaneous, unplanned, flexible
cognitive order: Ti, Ne, Si, Fe

INTJs:

closure-oriented
knowledge and understanding needs to be put into action to be satisfied
chart the course/directive communication style
planned, orderly, committed
cognitive order: Ni, Te, Fi, Se

Here's another list made up of anecdotal differentiations of the two types. I'm curious how accurate the INTJs think this list is. In comparison to INTPs, are INTJs....

more confident?
more closed-minded?
more argumentative?
'colder' and lacking emotion?
more likely to have higher levels of education?
more practical?
cleaner and more organized?
more decisive?

Are there any other traits you look for to tell the difference between these personality types?

[Evalis]

This makes absolutely perfect sense.. and absolutely perfect non-sense. While I can attest that from a purely absolutionist point of view, the difference between the two based on the definition of the final 'Letter' - Judgement or Perception makes perfect sense, those differences are unlikely to show themselves very strongly, if at all, in the representive population.

Consider that as a child you placed your hand over a hot flame, and 'perceived' that you recieved the sensation of pain. Shocked by your discovery, you recoil, and then soon try again, 'perceiving' the same sensation. Depending on your level of intelligence you would then 'judge' that the cause of this pain was being too near to the hot flame.

While the myers-briggs personality type of INTP would infer that you need to percieve this more often before you make a judgement than a INTJ, the speed and confidence at which one makes judgement is more largely based on intelligence and survival. It also seems to infer that the INTJ is more likely to make judgements without first percieving, which would be in direct contrast to 'having higher levels of education' as pursuing that education would be need to include interest in 'perception' as well as an acceptance of the judgements made from those perceptions.

An INTP could be seen as colder and lacking emotion compared to an INTJ because they choose to passively observe a scenario rather than participate, while the reverse could also be true, in that the INTJ chooses to judge prior to viewing the entirely of the scenario.

More practical and argumentitive.. again unlikely. Perception and Judgement are both a very strong part of making practical decisions, and arguing involves percieving another opinion as much as it does judging that opinion (although I suspect they meant 'argument' in a more hostile form, rather than it's literal definition).

The three I'm seeing here that might fit the bill are 'decisive, confifent, and close-minded' as the more likely you are to judge, the more likely you are to finalize your dicisions and take action.

All in all though.. I find that the differences in P over J are the result of randomness more so than due to any personality trait, as it is literrally impossible to percieve without judging, and impossible to judge without perceiving. There will always be some transfer of information regarding both of these upon recieving any sensation, even if it's as simple as understanding that you really feel good about looking at those flowers for some reason you can't understand. On the other hand it is entirely possible to be emotionally expressive without being logical, or be entirely logical without being emotionally expressive. The other three letters in this have a much greater extreme, and I don't feel there will ever be much difference between an intp and and intj..

Perhaps though.. my opinion is biased because I consistantly get both.

[Jezebel]

I suspect that the more balanced someone is between any two preferences, the more difficult it will be for them to clearly recognize the differences. I've seen similar explanations to your's for other preferences as well. For example, some people have trouble telling if they prefer introversion or extroversion. They say they enjoy both being alone and socializing, and can't figure out which one they are recharged by most. Nobody does 100% of either (unless they have a mental disorder), but people will prefer one over the other even it is only slightly. I strongly prefer introversion and can't imagine not being able to tell the difference.

I didn't see the differences between J and P as being very significant until I experienced collaborating on projects with both NJ and NP types (we all took the test at work). Due mostly to the types of conflicts I had between the groups, I would say that I definetely have more of a leaning to the thought processes of an INTJ. At least, that's what's been most useful to me to deal with these situations.

According to the cognitive processes theory portion of the MBTI, the differences between Js and Ps is huge because it completely swaps the INTJ/INTP cognitive functions around. I'm skeptical of the accuracy of this, but it's too late to get into that right now. I'll start a new thread for it tomorrow if nobody else jumps in first.

[Nizbit]

Consider that as a child you placed your hand over a hot flame, and 'perceived' that you recieved the sensation of pain. Shocked by your discovery, you recoil, and then soon try again, 'perceiving' the same sensation. Depending on your level of intelligence you would then 'judge' that the cause of this pain was being too near to the hot flame.

Not to nitpick...actually this probably is to nitpick, but I don't think your analogy of the flame follows what the 'J' and 'P' are meant to represent Evalis. As I understand it myers didn't mean for 'perceiving' to equate with sensing. I doubt either an INTJ or an INTP would fail to 'perceive/sense' immediately that the flame was hot the first time, and that they shouldn't touch it again. I think this follows with the deductive reasoning of all rationals. From the reading I've done on this (I tested right in the middle of these two types as well and have been trying to decide what the important difference is), the difference between the types has more to do with our willingness and desire to work based on schedules. I tried to tie your fire analogy in here but I can't think of an effective way to do it.

[Evalis]

Ermm.. perhaps I should have used an example in which the subject saw someone else performing those actions. I did not intend to confuse the analogy with the 'senses' in any way. The idea was that someone could view the scenario, or make a judgement upon it by myer-briggs standards.. while I contest that both must occur for either to be possible.

[HackerX]

A comparision between myself (INTP) and a better INTJ friend of mine:


more confident?

In general, yes. see my answer about decisiveness


more closed-minded?

Yes


more argumentative?

In general, yes. Unless it was about something that interested me in particular (even equally interested us). In which case he wouldn't come close to being as argumentative as me


'colder' and lacking emotion?

Perceived, yes.


more likely to have higher levels of education?

No way in hell he'd be bothered to put in the effort


more practical?

Depends on the what you need for it to be practical. I don't think any INT's make for practical solutions.


cleaner and more organized?

They're level of untidyness still amazes me to this day.


more decisive?

Less likely to second guess their decisions once they're made? I can be just as decisive, but I'm not going to stop second guessing myself after.

[tundra]

Agreeing with above except...

cleaner and more organized?

Now that's hard. I'd definitely have to say that varies quite a bit.

I'm untidy and tidy ::). Well, I stack things into neat piles, but really mixed piles. So its tidy far away, horrible if you start digging them for relevant stuff...

[Guido]

more confident?
more closed-minded?
more argumentative?
'colder' and lacking emotion?
more likely to have higher levels of education?
more practical?
cleaner and more organized?
more decisive?


Definitly more confident.

I personally find my INTP friend to be more closed minded, but I imagine he'd think I'm alot worse.

My INTP friend gets annoyed if someone is sticking to poorly constructed theories that violate some truth. I'm more likely to get annoyed if someone is sticking to poorly constructed conclusions that lack a valid theory. So this really depends on the convo topic. (I also think this is a key difference between the two types.)

We have emotions? :o

I would think INTJs would marginally, since they usually have a better idea with what they want to do with life.

INTJs more practical by far.

Cleaner? In general I guess... but I'm pretty messy myself. Organized? INTJ is definitly more organized.

INTJ is definitly more decisive.


Here's a funny story about my INTP friend:

He was writing a physical science test in high school, and he got to this question that read:
"What happens when heat up a can of unopened beans in a microwave?"
He couldn't answer the question because he didn't know what would happen if you heated up an 'unopened bean.'

Good example of an INTP getting lost with theories given the 'truth' that was the question.

[Evalis]

He couldn't answer the question because he didn't know what would happen if you heated up an 'unopened bean.'

Hahaha. I have done something similar to this before. It was something to the effect of describing how the word sounded (hot, cold, hostile, warm) and then say whether or not we thought that it was a good word. We then had to read these aloud to the rest of the class.

I answered based on the -sound- of the word and whether or not it properly reflected the point the speaker was trying to get across (ei: a 'good' or 'effective' word). 2 minutes into reading these answers, I realized I must have missed the question, becuase everyone was answering how the word made them 'feel'.

I declined a response lest anyone think I was a sociopath >.>

Interviews give me this same type of trouble:
Interviewer: "Did you like your old job?"
Me: "Yes"
Interviewer continues to stare uncomfortably for some reason I cannot understand...

[Cato the Younger]

I suspect that the more balanced someone is between any two preferences, the more difficult it will be for them to clearly recognize the differences. I've seen similar explanations to your's for other preferences as well. For example, some people have trouble telling if they prefer introversion or extroversion. They say they enjoy both being alone and socializing, and can't figure out which one they are recharged by most. Nobody does 100% of either (unless they have a mental disorder), but people will prefer one over the other even it is only slightly. I strongly prefer introversion and can't imagine not being able to tell the difference.

I have trouble telling the difference. Sometimes I prefer to be alone and sometimes I REALLY want to be around people. I think I lean towards introversion (as the test would suggest), but I enjoy many group activities. I enjoy playing sports and working out. I believe that my evident introversion is due more to environment than from a natural inclination. As a child I was very extroverted, but (as I mentioned in a previous topic) I lost most of my friends upon entering middle school. It may have been that I felt I needed to go into myself to survive. I do feel a sense of loneliness when I am alone for too long, but I also start to freak out if I'm around too many people for an extended period of time. During the summer I went to the Warped Tour in Dallas, Texas. During many of the shows I would be in the middle of the crowd and in my mind I was freaking out a bit. They were violating my personal space like crazy. I still get chills when I think about it.

Another thing I've noted that makes me think I border between introverted and extroverted is that all my interests match that of a ENTJ. For example, I'm a business major and I've been super interested in going into the military since I was young. I also can exude warmth at will. I'm also highly manipulative when I choose to be.

[Rei]

Hum, well...
My best friend is an INTP, albeit I don't know her numbers... this is going to be fun to go through...

more confident?
> b/w my friend and I, I am definately the more confident one. *Though I oftan wonder if I'm just brought up to be so. *But then again, maybe that's what makes me an INTJ...

more closed-minded?
> I would say so. *I think this also stems from being more confident (and sometimes more arrogant).

more argumentative?
> Another thing that may stem from confidence. *I must say though, INTP's definately are not at a loss for things to argue about, they just don't voice it as much. *I believe I'm sometimes the more laid back. *However I do voice things more vocally when I do voice things; on the other hand, my friend gets worked up and... usually says nothing XD

'colder' and lacking emotion?
> Hard to say. *More outwardly cold perhaps,*INTP's are more neutral. *Inwardly I'm quite sure I'm more emotional compared to my INTP friend.

more likely to have higher levels of education?
> This is most likely untrue. *INTP's are less absorbed into the minor details, and are generally better at seeing the big picture. *It allows them to delve further into whatever studiest they go into without... rejecting minor things and getting... literally stuck on a small problem. INTP's are more capable of being abstract (studying) where as INTJ's like to see results and things in action (applying/using).

more practical?
> More practical in terms of more organizationally oriented. *But otherwise there doesn't seem to be much of a difference as I think this would be determined by the T/F "letter"

cleaner and more organized?
> One word, definately.

more decisive?
> I guess considering INTJ's seek closure, we SHOULD TECHNICALLY be more decisive. *However, consider a situation in which an INTJ cannot FIND closure =/ *I'm sure everyone has experienced that.
Then again, generally I AM required to make decisions when I hang out with my INTJ buddy =/ *(It sometimes gets to the point where I must demand that she makes a up her mind.)
Are there any other traits you look for to tell the difference between these personality types?


BTW, may I ignorantly ask what in the world are cognitive orders?

[Capwolf]

BTW, may I ignorantly ask what in the world are cognitive orders?
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.*******.com/Request.jsp?rView=DynamicPage&Content=CognitivePro cesses

Te, Ni, Se, Fi, &c. are different ways of taking in information or using it. Theoretically, all INTJs share a preferred Ni function, a second-strongest Te function, and so on.

[Rei]

Thanks
I found the thread with the explanation a little later on =]

[OneBadMother]

Hmm, I don't know very many other INTPs, but I know that I do seem to give off more of a neutral impression than a standoffish one. We argue more when something particularly sets us off, and show our self-doubt a bit more than INTJs. I don't know about more or less decisive, though. My INTJ friend doesn't really have a preference on small things like where we should go to eat, and while I don't either, I'm more likely to just randomly pick a place. Also, while I'm not exactly more empathetic, I find myself more accepting of other peoples' differences in general.

I'm definitely more messy, though. I have to keep my wallet and keys in my pocket when I go to sleep, or I'll forget them (I sleep in full clothing. Less preparation needed in the morning that way.)

As for your INTP friend, Guido, that story did crack me up. But I know that I'd probably do the same, if I didn't realize that it was a grammatical error. :P

[Guido]

When talking about the differences between INTP and INTJ with my INTP friend, I used this as an analogy.

Each type has their own unique 'secret idea lab' which is where their ideas are first spawned.

INTJs invent theories first, and then use the truths they find in the world to verify the validity of those theories. Through this, they often are of the mentality 'why can't it work this way?' because they can't find any truths that contradict a (possibly unconventional) theory. So in a sense, their finished products that they show to the world are their theories that have been polished with truth.

INTPs are the complete opposite. They start with the truths first and construct theories to explain these truths. They often get lost in thought as they can come up with many theories that seem 'correct' but they can’t be sure since there are some truths that are missing, which would cause them to make up more theories about those possible truths… etc. So in my view, their lab produces unfinished products that need more work, which I suppose they would have the same view with my products.

This also relates to the leadership roles, since INTJs are willing to go with their current theories that aren’t contradicted by truths allowing them to make decisions. INTPs are more concerned with “what if my theory is wrong” and thus don’t like being in a situation where they have to make decisions.

This could change on a person per person basis, but I can say that all this is very true for me and my INTP friend. The key difference is an INTP will think "why does it work like this?" while an INTJ will think "why can't it work like this?"

I’d also like to note that INTJs have a general distain for people that aren’t making sense. While INTPs are more tolerant in general, they’ll blow up if they feel ‘an injustice’ has occurred or that one of their truths has been violated.

[Jezebel]

Thanks Guido, I like the way you wrote that explanation out. Based on that, I can definitely relate more to the way you described the INTJ way of thinking.

[HackerX]

When talking about the differences between INTP and INTJ with my INTP friend, I used this as an analogy.

Each type has their own unique 'secret idea lab' which is where their ideas are first spawned.

INTJs invent theories first, and then use the truths they find in the world to verify the validity of those theories. Through this, they often are of the mentality 'why can't it work this way?' because they can't find any truths that contradict a (possibly unconventional) theory. So in a sense, their finished products that they show to the world are their theories that have been polished with truth.

INTPs are the complete opposite. They start with the truths first and construct theories to explain these truths. They often get lost in thought as they can come up with many theories that seem 'correct' but they can’t be sure since there are some truths that are missing, which would cause them to make up more theories about those possible truths… etc. So in my view, their lab produces unfinished products that need more work, which I suppose they would have the same view with my products.

This also relates to the leadership roles, since INTJs are willing to go with their current theories that aren’t contradicted by truths allowing them to make decisions. INTPs are more concerned with “what if my theory is wrong” and thus don’t like being in a situation where they have to make decisions.

This could change on a person per person basis, but I can say that all this is very true for me and my INTP friend. The key difference is an INTP will think "why does it work like this?" while an INTJ will think "why can't it work like this?"

I’d also like to note that INTJs have a general distain for people that aren’t making sense. While INTPs are more tolerant in general, they’ll blow up if they feel ‘an injustice’ has occurred or that one of their truths has been violated.

As an INTP, I'll just confirm this to be a pretty damn good way of putting it from our point of view.

I'll tend to have a few possibilities come forward initially when looking at a problem. Then each of those would tend to spawn off their own group of possibilities etc etc. *After a while (which may not be that long really) a "group" (or perhaps a better word would be a branch) of those will tend to come to the forefront as intuitively being the best solution (currently), but even as I'm working through it, it will be spawning off sub possibilities to think through.

As for projects being "uncompleted", the best way to say it is like this. Once all the possibilities collapse into a single intuitive solution in my mind, the implementation is just a boring side effect. I know the solution, so what more do I have to prove? Also happens to be why INTP's tend to jack of all trades, master of none.

It's actually quite funny to watch me grind to a halt when I can't keep coming up with possibilities or am limited in some way without reaching some sort of solution I'm happy with.

[v1cious]

i agree with most of everything said in this thread, and i think the greatest noticeable difference between the two is practicality.

i constantly see INTPs climb on top of ivory towers and engage in debates that nobody would care about, e.g. axioms. i actually stopped discussing philosophy (metaphysics) for the reason of verificationism-- it is a fun topic to talk about, but ultimately no one can ever be right because the subject matter is intrinsically subjective

practicality, "the general idea," is the ultimate goal of any discussion that i partake in, whereas INTPs waste time arguing about utterly irrelevant details.

this is the major difference between the two that i have encountered.

[Rei]

When talking about the differences between INTP and INTJ with my INTP friend, I used this as an analogy.

Each type has their own unique 'secret idea lab' which is where their ideas are first spawned.

INTJs invent theories first, and then use the truths they find in the world to verify the validity of those theories. Through this, they often are of the mentality 'why can't it work this way?' because they can't find any truths that contradict a (possibly unconventional) theory. So in a sense, their finished products that they show to the world are their theories that have been polished with truth.

INTPs are the complete opposite. They start with the truths first and construct theories to explain these truths. They often get lost in thought as they can come up with many theories that seem 'correct' but they can’t be sure since there are some truths that are missing, which would cause them to make up more theories about those possible truths… etc. So in my view, their lab produces unfinished products that need more work, which I suppose they would have the same view with my products.

This also relates to the leadership roles, since INTJs are willing to go with their current theories that aren’t contradicted by truths allowing them to make decisions. INTPs are more concerned with “what if my theory is wrong” and thus don’t like being in a situation where they have to make decisions.

This could change on a person per person basis, but I can say that all this is very true for me and my INTP friend. The key difference is an INTP will think "why does it work like this?" while an INTJ will think "why can't it work like this?"

I’d also like to note that INTJs have a general distain for people that aren’t making sense. While INTPs are more tolerant in general, they’ll blow up if they feel ‘an injustice’ has occurred or that one of their truths has been violated.

Damn... that's good. That's the epitome of my INTP friend and I.

[OneBadMother]

I concur. I would say that INTJs and INTPs are pretty awesome in two somewhat different ways. :P

[Jennywocky]

I agree with Guido's post as well, he captured the INTP fears and mindset very well.

I think the INTJ is more interested in implementation, and I also agree that INTPs often get caught up in such the theoretical aspect of things that they can become totally impractical/irrelevant to life; but I do not agree with V1cious's wording in that some of the things we beat to death are "irrelevant."

Perhaps they are if all you're interested in is "finishing something" or implementing it, but if your goal is to accurately define or describe something, then our approach is ENTIRELY relevant.

The focus on implementation is merely a preference of the INTJ, not the objective thrust of reality; each type has different priorities. Sometimes it's more appropriate to focus on Te implementation; but sometimes it's very important to define something correctly (Ti).

[mind_wander]

Well, all I can say this my professor who give us the Myer-Brigg's personality test; so I guess its a plus side, now I end up in here. Yes, INTP's are very opened-ended, very different to communicate at times for INTJ's; so the best way to deal with it is try to find all those hidden INTJ skils and used it to your advantage.

[OneBadMother]

I agree with Guido's post as well, he captured the INTP fears and mindset very well.

I think the INTJ is more interested in implementation, and I also agree that INTPs often get caught up in such the theoretical aspect of things that they can become totally impractical/irrelevant to life; but I do not agree with V1cious's wording in that some of the things we beat to death are "irrelevant."

Perhaps they are if all you're interested in is "finishing something" or implementing it, but if your goal is to accurately define or describe something, then our approach is ENTIRELY relevant.

The focus on implementation is merely a preference of the INTJ, not the objective thrust of reality; each type has different priorities. Sometimes it's more appropriate to focus on Te implementation; but sometimes it's very important to define something correctly (Ti).

Yeah, that sounds about right. We don't really see anything as "irrelevant", so much as "not interesting". If there is a subject that interests us, we'll gather enough information to make sense of and analyze it. The pool of all that information we've gathered simmers until something comes to the surface, some key observation or pattern or connection that clarifies questions that have come up in our information-seeking. The conclusions that result are subject to change, due to the fact that we don't know everything (yet). Once we have these epiphanies, we're more or less satisfied with the fact that we know it, and don't much care about finding a practical application. In short, we're philosophers. :P

[celesul]

Guido definitely captured the differences pretty well. I'll be rambling about something, but if I go to far off, my friend will ask we what is the significance today. We have a bunch of interesting discussions, but I tend to take it farther into the theoretical, while she brings it back to the practical. Still, she also enjoys discussing theory, and I'm not horribly impractical. :thumbsup:

I think that Ne makes NTPs like debate a lot more than Ni of NTJs. I'm on my schools debate team, and a disproportionate number of debaters are NTP, although more ENTP than INTP.

I'm more confident than my INTJ friend, but I've no idea if that is from type or other things. I'm also much more extraverted than she is.

In terms of being stuck in theory or bringing it to reality, if an INTP is motivated, they will, it's just not as important to them. I maintain that INTPs tendency for coming up with new ideas and Ne for developing it (which is very useful and fun) combined with INTJs Te can actually get things done well, creatively, and within this millennium. On the other hand... you have to get them to talk first. ;D

[ciphersort]

Great thread for me. I spent the morning thinking about which type description best fits me for the nth time and I have changed my type listing from INTx to INTP.

Thanks. Good thing that dilemma is solved - onward toward pizza.

[Jennywocky]

Great thread for me. I spent the morning thinking about which type description best fits me for the nth time and I have changed my type listing from INTx to INTP.

As confirmation, if you find yourself reopening the question tomorrow because you're confused again, you can embrace INTP with full confidence. :D

[toonia]

The INTJ's tertiary Fi (which tends to be more personalized feeling) compared to
the INTP's Fe as their weakest function (which will not be based on an inward system of feeling).

Based on this, it would seem that the INTJ is going to be markedly more emotional than the INTP. It is possible that even with it being a stronger function, it could be more hidden than the INTPs through being an introverted function.

I have observed that the potential intensity of the INTJ's feeling function can cause a kind of internal rift between very systematized, logical systems, and intensity of subjective feeling. It appears that this can be especially difficult to resolve and so feeling is bracketed off and submersed deep inside. The INTP's Feeling function is rather weak, but tends to be childlike and comes out to play. The INTJ can have much more deeply convoluted, complex feelings that resist assimilation into their complete, logical frameworks.

[MrFlaneur]

and I don't feel there will ever be much difference between an intp and and intj..

Perhaps though.. my opinion is biased because I consistantly get both.

that is probably the best explanation of the of the j/p differential ive ever seen.

im constantly torn by wondering whether im intj or intp.
im convinced im intp in general, but intj at work out of necessity. when i turn on the j i have much more focus; im more directive and can deploy my strategic capacity (which is quite scary). in intj mode a conceive ideations of politics and power play which is atypical of intp's - fortunately i can use my Si
here to play out imaginary scenarios before "acting out" (im not exactly the president lol)

is great to know im INTX - its the best of both worlds. its great to be able to sit back and think, but then action has to be taken in order to live; to be able to look back at what one has achieved. if im on my death bed, and i say to them "my greatest regret is that i didnt loaf around all day and muse" you all have my permission to shoot me.

for the record i want to say that i find intj's much more acceptable than intps. ***** crowd seems to be priggish superior condescending and haughty.
intjs seem to have greater depth and a sort of paternal affection towards others. i get a greater sense of compassion here which intps seem to omit just so that they can fit with type which i think is weak. they also whitter

its probably part of my p that i tend to grate with other intps.

hope this helps.

tell me what you think? am i J or P

i feel much more at home here

they say the inferior function is probably the best indicator of who you are

do you have problems with fitting in (Fe) or with cutting loose (Se)?

for me its with fitting in which convinces me im intp.

my functions are definitely ti ne si fe but then again i feel as though i may have just interpreted the intj functions wrongly. i feel a strong affinity for both.

this is playing on my mind like you wont believe

help

all the best

[vulcan]

yeah i haven't figured out whether i'm intj or intp either. some days it's intj for sure. some days intp for sure.

they say if you can't tell, you're intp, but i doubt that too.

i just think the system is too shitty.

[The Many]

yeah i haven't figured out whether i'm intj or intp either. some days it's intj for sure. some days intp for sure.

they say if you can't tell, you're intp, but i doubt that too.

i just think the system is too shitty.

Well, yes. I'm right there too, I'm an essentially an organized INTP. This shows why the Myers-Briggs system is flawed. People are too multi-faceted to be described more than very, very broadly by these types.

[Astra]

The INTJ's tertiary Fi (which tends to be more personalized feeling) compared to
the INTP's Fe as their weakest function (which will not be based on an inward system of feeling).

Based on this, it would seem that the INTJ is going to be markedly more emotional than the INTP. It is possible that even with it being a stronger function, it could be more hidden than the INTPs through being an introverted function.

I have observed that the potential intensity of the INTJ's feeling function can cause a kind of internal rift between very systematized, logical systems, and intensity of subjective feeling. It appears that this can be especially difficult to resolve and so feeling is bracketed off and submersed deep inside. The INTP's Feeling function is rather weak, but tends to be childlike and comes out to play. The INTJ can have much more deeply convoluted, complex feelings that resist assimilation into their complete, logical frameworks.

This is totally it for me. My dad, for instance, is INTP - mild-mannered and not particularly emotional about anything, just pretty easy-going. I'm much more strongly affected by my emotions, though no good at all at showing them or using them to connect with other people, or even as a sound basis for my own life-decisions, and my other half is even worse (he's more J than I am). My aunt was also INTJ and she had the same bizarre combo of having very strong feelings about things herself but having to make a conscious T/N effort to understand what was going on in other people's heads.

I think Guido's "ideas lab" explanation makes perfect sense. Do INTPs really end up with fewer qualifications? To me, the INTP way of doing things is completely what's required of academics, although I can see why an INTJ might end up gaining more paper qualifications as a means to an end.





Astra added to this post, 8 minutes and 18 seconds later...

Actually, what made me realise I'm INTJ rather than INTP (I'm not that far off) was this description of INTJ weaknesses - I just cringed when I read it, it's so true of me: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[quentin]

The J/P distinction is the vaguest, most difficult, and ultimately unworkable element of MBTI. And of course I'm saying that because I'm biased, teetering on the tightrope between INTJ and INTP. I have no idea which one I am. Has anyone else noticed the huge, HUGE amount of overlap in the INTJ and INTP profiles on many MBTI pages? It's almost as if they cut and paste from the same sources. I read the personality profiles of both types and get the shock of recognition of my own personality in both typologies. I don't identify strongly with any of the other personality type profiles much at all - only INTJ or INTP. I think they're roughly the same personality type with minor to irrelevant differences. I suppose decisiveness would be the key differentiating factor.

[Santana28]

When talking about the differences between INTP and INTJ with my INTP friend, I used this as an analogy.

Each type has their own unique 'secret idea lab' which is where their ideas are first spawned.

INTJs invent theories first, and then use the truths they find in the world to verify the validity of those theories. Through this, they often are of the mentality 'why can't it work this way?' because they can't find any truths that contradict a (possibly unconventional) theory. So in a sense, their finished products that they show to the world are their theories that have been polished with truth.

INTPs are the complete opposite. They start with the truths first and construct theories to explain these truths. They often get lost in thought as they can come up with many theories that seem 'correct' but they can’t be sure since there are some truths that are missing, which would cause them to make up more theories about those possible truths… etc. So in my view, their lab produces unfinished products that need more work, which I suppose they would have the same view with my products.

This also relates to the leadership roles, since INTJs are willing to go with their current theories that aren’t contradicted by truths allowing them to make decisions. INTPs are more concerned with “what if my theory is wrong” and thus don’t like being in a situation where they have to make decisions.

This could change on a person per person basis, but I can say that all this is very true for me and my INTP friend. The key difference is an INTP will think "why does it work like this?" while an INTJ will think "why can't it work like this?"

I’d also like to note that INTJs have a general distain for people that aren’t making sense. While INTPs are more tolerant in general, they’ll blow up if they feel ‘an injustice’ has occurred or that one of their truths has been violated.

Very good description. I test INTJ 75% of the time, and INTP 25% of the time. I have strong characteristics of both depending on my mood, i can swing either way. I think i may have been born a natural ENTP but having been raised by my INTJ father i learned to harness the judgemental abilities of my personality.

Personally, i am just generally questioning things - i come up with theories and ponder truths at about a 50/50 rate. I do tend to focus more on the "why does it?" question more than the "why can't it?" question, however i have absolutely no issue with being proven wrong. In fact, i enjoy being proven wrong - i feel uncomfortable having theories all worked out in my head "perfectly." I have to see them fleshed out in real life, and my life is basically one big social experiment (instead of science and mathematics, i focus on sociology and psychology and relationships). I feel uncomfortable having people agree with me - and seeing as how i could convince my less-intelligent friends that the sky was brown if i wanted to, i worry when people don't disagree with me.

I am perfectly capable of learning from other people's mistakes and coming to conclusions based on the actions of others... but i still feel compelled to experience them firsthand.

I'm an odd INTJ - i may have possibly been a natural ENTP, and i'm very in touch with my "F" side even though it is processed via Thought and Rationality.

For what it's worth.

[rwyatt365]

I don't know if I have this entirely right, but I'll take a stab here.

Instead of looking at the "INTJ" and "INTP" and saying, "Ah ha, the only difference between the two is 'J' vs. 'P'", look instead at the Cognitive Processes (which are "the way that our brains interpret and act on information). Looking at the Cognitive Processes one sees that INTJ and INTP are "shadows" of one another. Whereas the INTJ are dominated by Ni and Te (Introverted iNtuiting and Extraverted Thinking respectively), the INTP is dominated by Ti and Ne (Introverted Thinking and Extraverted iNtuiting).

That means that where an INTJ is synthesizing new ideas (part of Ni), an INTP is looking into the depths of things (part of Ti) – the INTJ is creating something out of nothing and the INTP is examining the depths of a thing. That is the primary process at work. Secondarily, the INTJs thoughts are "adjusted" by the Te process which brings in the planning and scheduling aspect of the personality. The INTPs thoughts are "adjusted" by the Ne process which forges "what if" scenarios from which plans can eventually be realized.

The results are similar but the approach is different. The two are shadows (in a manner of thinking) of one another Ni/Te vs. Ti/Ne – similar, yet different.

The same holds for the tertiary and ??? (I forgot what the fourth one is typically called) processes; INTJ – Fi/Se vs. INTP Si/Fe.

Does that make sense?

[Rohsiph]

rwyatt365: yes, that sounds right, based on my own understandings of the system :)

I've been finding it, in different degrees, peculiar when crossing more and more folks who seem to skip right past this understanding, yet still claiming a rich & full understanding of what's going on . . . but enough seem to come around, I suppose the jumping to conclusions about (movie-guy voice) "The J/P Divide" (/movie-guy voice) could be just a manifestation of excitement?

[quentin]

INTJs invent theories first, and then use the truths they find in the world to verify the validity of those theories. Through this, they often are of the mentality 'why can't it work this way?' because they can't find any truths that contradict a (possibly unconventional) theory. So in a sense, their finished products that they show to the world are their theories that have been polished with truth.

INTPs are the complete opposite. They start with the truths first and construct theories to explain these truths. They often get lost in thought as they can come up with many theories that seem 'correct' but they can’t be sure since there are some truths that are missing, which would cause them to make up more theories about those possible truths… etc. So in my view, their lab produces unfinished products that need more work, which I suppose they would have the same view with my products.


The problem with that is that I do both, depending on the circumstances and/or my frame of mind at the time. I also don't see why facts and theory have to be arranged as if to appear so mutually incompatible. Honestly, if you asked me, "Which do you start with, facts or theory?" I honestly couldn't tell you. It depends so much on the context of the problem you're trying to solve. When dealing with concrete material things, such as designing a house, of course it's much more logical to go with what works, based on physically provable facts, than abstract theory. When dealing with people, however, facts don't tell you everything; you have to make intuitive guesses and theorize abstractly when dealing with other people, most of the time.

Two things:

1) No one is a "pure" type. Everyone is a mix. People such as myself who are very much on the borderline between two MBTI characterizations can see this easily.

2) Meyers-Briggs has its flaws. It's by no means a perfect system for categorizing people. The vagueness and difficulty we seem to be having understanding & explaining the INTJ/INTP divide underscores the inherent flaw in any type of categorization system that attempts to put people in neat little boxes. I don't have doubts as to the validity of the MBTI system as a useful tool in gauging one's own psychological type, but Judging vs. Perceiving is one area where it could stand a good bit of improvement.

[AresX9]

The flaws in the MBTI are due to human nature (Humans make mistakes, so nothing is perfect). The entire realm of personality types is a theory, as we should be aware of. However, the main theory of personality types is indeed ringing to be true. Meaning, that it is correct that there are a certain number of personality types and each individual in the world has a specific preference for one.

My understanding of the MBTI system tells me that the INTJ type is an extreme version of the INTP. After reading so many pages about the two, I have seen many similarities and few differences. Both seem to follow the same path in terms of reasoning but once the issue of time management pops up, that's where the differences come in.

At least MBTI isn't as subjective as English literature, ugh.