What 'makes' an INTJ

[Evalis]

The argument of nature versus nuture spawns the question of whether or not people are born with the personality type of a logical, introspective, and most probably generally quiet individual, or if there were factors involved in the outside world that caused such a thing.

So it is my idea here to post some external factors of my life to compare with others to see if there is a matchup. Keep in mind that factors such as intelligence, strength of will, etc, could all be a product of the environment, so I won't be listing any of these as influences. Also because it is probable everyone has the same level of cognitive ability at birth (with the exception of the mentally damaged) and are just dumb because.. well.. they are lazy.

Anyhoo.

In summary, my parents were never there for me, either physically, intellectually, or emotionally. My father was a loose cannon until I was 13, so I could never ask/challenge him on anything without getting hit, and my mother would always answer with either something rediculous (if it was regarding a religious topic) or something along the lines of: "look it up for yourself". She would also periodically have temper tantrums.. leading me at times to be the comforter, rather than the other way around.

I lived with 2 dogs and 7 cats.. that periodically came and went, in addition to several family members that died throughout my life (one in about every 3 years). My parents had gotten a divorce, as did two of my uncles, and I was living with/around 'step-brothers/sisters' most of the time.

In school I was often persecuted for voicing my opinion - perhaps because it was so off the wall from everyone elses, or simply that it was often phrased in the form of a question.. I"m not really sure. For whatever reason.. I'm still working on the solution to this.. I was never particularily interested in physical activities (that rush that people seem to get from having them doesn't duplicate itself in me), and was led down the path of more personal activities, such as puzzles and games.

Whether this is nature or nuture I'm not sure.. but I've discovered that I'm not particularily good at any one thing. I cannot 'excel' in a given area.. or rather there are many areas I excel in, but no better than any of the others. I'm still skeptical on whether or not these factors formed my 'INTJ' personality.. but it would be interesting to find out if other INTJs has similar backgrounds.

Anyone else care to divulge the possible external factors that may have shaped them as they are today? .. I'll even go get the popcorn ^^ .. just for me though ;p

[radioactivez0r]

Then there's me - parents celebrating their 30th anniversary this year, nothing I remember about my childhood was particularly bad. However, I have a twin sister who was quite a handful, and so my parents were forced to pay a lot of attention to her; this worked somewhat to my benefit, as I could just do my own thing. Like Jezebel, I was able to entertain myself for hours, building things with Construx (one of the greatest toys ever), reading, and so forth. I've always been independent, though.

For my money, I think nature is 90% responsible for a person's ultimate persona. I think nurture can refine it one way or the other, but I don't believe in people being a product of their environment, because that lets them off the hook. You are who you were born as, and it's up to you to understand what that means.

[Evalis]

So the only similarity I'm seeing here is that of isolation. Though from one response this appears to be a situation that was chosen, more so than forced, and I must admit that given the opportunity to make the decision for myself, I still may have chosen to involve myself in personal activities. Though perhaps I'm just saying that because it was forced upon me, and I grew to like it.

What did you mean that your step sister was a handful?

[Rose]

I have an INTJ father and a very oddly emotional mother. My father was a great source of information when I was young. We always debated things and the like, but he's not an emotionally warm person (hugs, I love yous etc.) which is typical. Needless to say my father and I had issues during my teen years and we broke things off completely when I turned 18. It was my mother who re-opened communication between us and now we are "OK."

As a child I also enjoyed being alone and chose to spend much of my time reading or creating things. I've always been good at entertaining myself so I'd say most of my isolation was self-imposed as well. Even now that I am married I still choose to do a lot on my own.

I think a lot of it is just who I've been from birth. My two brothers aren't INTJs and we were raised together as we are all very close in age. Interestingly my daughter is almost a year old and everyone comments on how "concentrated" and "serious" she is. Sure, she laughs easily, but she can spend literally hours playing by herself without bothering to look up. Obviously she is very young and it's impossible to tell, but some personality traits are just there from the beginning.

[Apococlock]

Well let's see here...

Some variables that might come into play which you may find interesting:

My mother and father are polar opposites, they were never married and I've live with them both for approximately the same amount of time, nine years with one and nine years with the other one.

One is highly emotional (my mom) and I lived with her for the first nine years of my life. This time had it's ups and down, extreme ones that is. She was on drugs, namely cocaine and crack, as was her boyfriend. They both loved and cared for me adequately, and managed to shield me a bit from the bad situation I was actually living in, but it definitely had it's effect nonetheless. Yeah, there is a lot more to it, but I have more than a few distractions right now tugging me away, so I'll make this brief.

The other is the logical one, my pops. He was a lot colder but also probably a lot smarter. During this time I was considered an outcast in school, since I had come from a poorer, more urban background. I was cast aside and joined forces with the group also known as the "nerds". You know, the group everyone picked on for simply being different. I was alright isolated previous to this, I enjoyed playing with legos by myself, and computers and whatnot was all strictly done on my own.

It wasn't until later years that I somehow managed to stand out and really show my true colors... and now things are vastly different than then, but that's a bit of background for you.

[tundra]

I guess we are seeing some certain similarities...

I'm an only child, too. I wasn't introverted at all when I was really young (seven/eight?). It was all quite nice then, considering primary school went well then.

Then we moved to Auckland. My mother did a degree in management, and my father became a full-time computer engineer. Both suddenly became unbelievably busy, and basically I had to get along by myself, or I was sent to my grandparents. The following years weren't too great, I got picked on a lot, and didn't fit in well.

Things turned better in high school, I was sent to a private school. I think I was quieter then...

[OneBadMother]

Some of you might be describing what makes an INT, too. I'm an only child who had no real friends until high school. Even then, I've been described as "cold and distant" except from my best friend.

I had a sort of polarity of parental experiences as well. My mother (ENTP) was absent for a good portion of my earlier life, leaving my father (ENFP) in charge of me a good part of the time. Even so, I spent most of my time at school, waiting to be picked up (another variable: my mother decided that I needed to go to private schools all the time, regardless of expense, which meant that I couldn't take the bus, that there was a smaller pool of children and thus a smaller pool of possible friends, and also that I had to wait at school after-hours until I was picked up), and I disliked him until I was about 12.

My father eventually started going on business trips, leaving my mother in charge of me, who was also always busy. She was cold and distant some times and smothering other times. More smothering nowadays. Periodically she would talk about abandoning me and my father and moving to New York. Now she lives with the man that she cheated on my father with, and me often, when I'm at home. It's a late development, but I think it's had some sort of effect on me. My mother assumed that I would want to live with them, and pointed out that I had no real choice.

When I was younger I was more introverted, maybe a bit more F, and much more P. I'm fairly certain that my mother's decision to not be there for me emotionally but support me intellectually was a factor in one of those instances. I never considered my father an option for emotional support, and the one time I did break down around him I came out of it feeling embarassed and ashamed.

[Cato the Younger]

I was extroverted as a child and could get along with just about anyone. I excelled in school and had no problems that I can remember. When I was about 10 my parents divorced. When I went to middle school in the 6th grade I was met by a popular kid from the other school who didn't like me for some reason and decided to treat me like crap. He accused me of being gay and effectively alienated me from the rest of the group. I also must note that I was put in honors classes and most of the kids in honors were from the other school. There were maybe 3 or 4 kids from my school in the 2 honors classes in my grade. I didn't really know any of them so it was easy for the guy to accuse me and have the other kids believe him. Middle school sucked for the most part. Things got better in high school, but I still didn't like it. I still possessed to get along with just about anyone, though. I can't get along with super emotional people and I avoid them like the plague.

I tend to be very unconventional in my thinking and tastes. Though, I stopped trying to show it after the age of 15. My unconventional thinking has often gotten people mad at me. I also tend to be rather objective which has also gotten me in trouble. My brother, who is much more extroverted than me, and me don't usually get along. We don't see things the same way and often get into arguments. My sister is highly emotional and much older than me. As I child I was most often outside running around and having fun. I was never really good friends with anyone. The only real amount of time I would spend alone was in my backyard making up stories in my head.

I lived with my mother after my parents divorced. She would try to control me. This is what probably lead me to my political leanings. My father is more like me. Less emotional than the rest and a deeper thinker. We think alike and share many qualities.

My personal belief is that the majority of a person's personality is genetic. I do believe that your environment might shift certain points of your personality. I for example border between extrovert and introvert.

[TeleportThis]

Neither of my parents were particularly affectionate or attentive, although my father was much better than my mother. I can't remember ever having much respect for my mother, even as a small child. I think this is because the attention I did get from my her was usually negative. My sister was 7 years older than me, whom I looked up to a lot when I was younger. Because there was such a large age difference, we never really got in fights like a lot of siblings do. I was always stubborn and independent though. I've also always been shy. I always had friends throughout school though. I was never picked on, but I wasn't popular either. I had a rather large group of friends in high school with quirky personalities like mine, and didn't realize that people like us were so rare until attending college.

[Firelie]

Hmm...guess if environment has anything to do with personality, then mine is a little different from some people's....

I grew up in a normal, middle-class household with two loving parents and a younger brother who is very close in age to me. I was never ignored, in fact, though my parents would never say it, I'm still the "favored" child to this day. However, I did grow up in a military family, which meant we moved every few years, so I was almost always the "outsider" at school and have never had any friends that I consider close.

On the note of stubbornness...My mom likes to tell the story about how I knew how to count to 20 when I was like one or so, but everyone thought she was lying because I refused to perform in front of other people. haha :D

[Rei]

I've been meaning to ask this exact same question...

Hum...
Let me start with saying I was born impatient and had a seriously short attention span. *I know THAT is not nurture...

Anyway, born in HK. *Immigrated to Canada when I was 6-ish. *Lived with just my uncle and aunt for a while. *Mother joined my sister and I a year later after my paternal grandfather died (and she came to attend the funeral, even though he was a jackass to her... actually my dad's whole family was a jackass to my mother...). *We moved out. *My dad stayed in HK for another... year. My dad joined us a while later after much discussion (indecision due to the ridiculous difference in income. *Damn Canadian system didn't recognize education/work experience from HK. *My mother had high positioned work experience from pretty much every field you could name, but all she got here was a cashier job at some restaurant - but that's another story). *We moved again. *(so... so far I've moved to a new country, and within the country I've moved & changed schools every year for 3 years)

I think this is where we finally settled down for several years. *But by this time, I've become rather independant and pretty much didn't care about trying to fit into a group of friends. *I always had one or two friends I always hung out with, but I think I'm too tiring to hang out with *;D. *(crudely put I'm a bit of a loner) *I was very rebellious all through elementary school (in the school context only). *I tended to get into arguements with my teachers alot, and I think a lot of people were afraid to associate with me because of it. *(the misunderstood INTJ)

Finacial troubles remain... My maternal grandmother went through various medical issues which required a lot of our attention, time and money. *First it was cancer, after she got better she got hit by a car while we were walking my dogs. *Surprisingly got off with just a broken leg (my T came in then because I rushed to make sure the escaped and possibly injured dogs didn't go running into the road rather than see if my grandmother was okay... cuz dude... there were people rushing to do that already).

Anyway, that meant another several years of having to take my grandmother to the hospital and whatever other therapy clinics and the lawyers office plus making sure she's comfortable at home (which is surprisingly difficult because she couldn't get off her bed; so we had to remember to ask her when she needed to go to the washroom and... getting her there is an ordeal in itself). *My mother was very strained through this because my grandmother is a very emotional character, and my mother gets affected by people she cares about very easily. (vicious never ending cycle)

Through this, my sister was in university, and pretty much oblivious to extent of the happenings at home. *She called on my mother a lot because she didn't know how strained she already was. *(example: She used to ask my mother to drive into dorm with food or just to accompany her shopping to "take her mind off school".) *My mother never really showed the strain, but I guess the iNtuition in my INTJ just told me I should stay very very quiet.

I think I was in highschool by now, and finally met a friend I've stuck with since then (she's an INTP). *I also learned to tone down my defiance with teachers... outwardly anyway (years later I found out that I was seen as a teacher's pet because I laughed at their jokes... when really I was just laughing at the teacher *:-/)

A year after that I changed schools yet again. *Was torn from the comfortable little group that I was silently a part of, and my INTP friend. *It took me another year to get close enough to the people in my new school to 'hang out'.

Another year and I graduted, and is now studying in a University where none of my highschool friends went to. *Soooo, back to being 'independant' as so many people like to call it... how optimistic. *My sister has been working for a few years now, and I'm off to university, but I find that I am still the one who steps in to take responsibility for buffering the stresses with-in the family.

In conclusion. *I really think I was INTJ to begin with, and how I reacted to the things that's happened throughout my life simply brought out the INTJ-ness.


EDIT: Goodness this is long... I suck at paraphrasing *:-/
EDIT: I shortened it... a bit...

[The Rose]

I have a theory that type is somewhat genetic.
I'd say it's majority% DNA and minority% outside influence.

The reason I think that is because I think that's where stereotypes come from, i.e.
cold German, thrifty Scotsman, hot-tempered redhead, the war-mongering English,
the peace-loving French, etc.
(Sorry if I got any of those wrong. I don't really know a lot of stereotypes.)

My mother is an ISTJ with a high N.
She was horrible to me.
She wanted me to be her little robot and conform to exactly how she wanted everything.
I was not allowed to think, or have feelings.
I sometimes think I would have been an INFJ if it had not been for her squelching me that way.
So I think parents do affect our type somewhat.

I also believe we are born with a certain temperament.
As we experience success or defeat with the different dimensions, we learn to prefer one over the other.
My youngest son did not get training in being strong-willed.
He just came out that way!

[Rei]

In the case of the hot tempered redhead etc.

I say It may be that the red hair gene is simply linked to the bad temper gene.

Though I must say that I know a VERY mild tempered natural red head.

[Sohrab]

I think type is both genetic and environmental!

My father, I think, is an INTJ who came from a poor family and lost his mother very early which I think impeded gaining social skills that restricted him to only talking when he's drunk and already pissed or not talking at all. My mom is an ISTJ raised in a poor traditional Catholic family. They had a sort off passive-aggressive pissing contest, neither party admitting they're wrong (I understood this much later). I was the first child on my mother's side which pretty much made me the center of attention of my aunts and uncles and their favorite until now. I hear I was particularly receptive then since I knew the alphabet, colors and experimenting with my shadow when I was 2. That probably added to my being the "chosen one". We have regular reunions at Christmas and All Soul's Day.

When I was 5 or 6, we had a new housekeeper and my mother started teaching two schools. This left me and my brothers at home with the help. Corporal punishment is the norm so I got punished a lot for mischief but never to the extent I had with this housekeeper. It came to a point that I feared her more than my mother. My problem with this is that the housekeeper was not exactly rational, I remember being scolded for turning the faucet to the maximum. The water was going into the pail but she said I was wasting water, apparently the water meter was going too fast for her. I remember confronting my mother about it but she needed the housekeeper to maintain her job, which she needed for her to maintain the status quo. There was even a time when she came home and saw welts all over me, she cried and promised it would stop, it did for a month or so. The sad part about it was she was our housekeeper for more than 10 years until we moved to the suburbs.

In terms of school, I spent kindergarten at a Catholic school but asked my mom to transfer after the year because the boys never seem to grow taller. It turns out that it's an all girl high school ;D. Prep to grade3 in another Catholic school closer to our house, this was when we got the housekeeper. Then, 4-6 in the Catholic school my mother taught at for the employee discount. I've always been described as indifferent even then, imagine my horror when a teacher asked me to do the public service section of our class version of the daily news in her effort to open me up. I excelled especially in Science, Math and things that you memorize. I derived particular enjoyment in stumping teachers since I usually finish the textbooks before the year starts. No real friends just a few acquaintances when you play, never really fit in except for the academic contest. I never took notes much to the consternation of my mom claiming that study habits become work habits. I was even made to kneel on mung beans, atchuete seeds and salt to drive the point in. It never caught on since I never saw the need to write things down. It was here that I began questioning if I was missing something since I never understood how to interact, add the fact that I thought violence was the norm complicated a lot of things leading to a lot of confusion.

High school, I was enrolled to Manila Science High School, It's curriculum was focused on Math, Science and English. I had a regular group that discussed geometry problems in 2nd year but nothing significant until much later. Still didn't do notes though it was 5-10% of the grade. I was not really at the top even in grade school but I gained a sort of notoriety here. I applied Geometry laws to Trig problems, then Geom and Trig to Calculus, much to the chagrin of my teacher. Why go through the whole 9 yards when the 30-60-90 theorem works fine. There was even a bit of controversy in my class when a parent complained that I scored higher than everybody else, even equal to the top sections without projects and notebooks. That was advanced chemistry, to my the defense, the teacher simply said, "but the kid is good".

Senior year half of my class was in the counselor's office because we failed a subject. My classmates failed Calculus while I did in PE because I refused to participate in a Field demo where the whole male Senior population would dance Hiphop. What's the point?. There were also home problems, the Pinatubo eruption left my dad unemployed. His self esteem plummeted and with the money going, he began drinking heavily. When he's drunk, he would rant about the worlds transgressions on him, even threatening our neighbors with a large knife for any deviations from his moral compass, even my mom. To me, this was all for show, a toothless tiger. They separated for while with us and mom with grandma but they got back together after some counseling. That was something I didn't agree to, I'd rather stop school and take a job than go back there. I was overruled.

During High School, I think I developed a personality disorder, pretty much like the Schizoid with bits of OCPD. This I think from all the confusion in grade school. An example would be an extemporaneous speech in my English class, it ended after I uttered the first line, I realized I was in front then fell dumb and just stood there. The teacher mercifully told me to sit down. A very powerful opening to the Hindenburg in a couple of minutes ;D. I had my first crush but didn't really know what to do about it, plus "advice" from family to finish my studies first before any girlfriend (That may sound strange to most of you guys, welcome to my reality :D) ended any possibility of a relationship. The breakthrough came in senior class when I met my best friend, he's an not as technical as I was, an ESTJ I think, very vocal and enjoys annoying people. He can't really push my buttons and which is probably why we clicked. Others then seem to gravitate to us until we had a bunch of fellow misfits in our class. It sort of became an outlet for philosophical discussions and hanging out. I was able to do this by keeping home and school separate, Not even my best friend knew my problems at the time. I was ashamed of my father.

I took Biology at UP as a premed and learned to have a circle of friends this time which pretty much helped me to be open a bit. It was uneventful mostly in terms of breakthroughs. There was a more relatively more peaceful atmosphere at home which made me relax a bit. At this point, most of the anxiety was gone or I was numb to it already.

Med school was when I thought of testing everything I've learned. "The Road Less Traveled" was recommended to me. The book prompted me to re-examine everything. This culminated with postponing my internship and a physical confrontation with my father after another threat (this time to me but the last straw was to my mom). In a way, I think I reconnected with the me before all the crap. I am still trying to remove some of my anxieties and have been successful at it but I'm thinking that understanding them and adjusting accordingly is the best I could do. In a way, I'm a born again INTJ. I've reset my my priorities, my problem is implementation. It seems the crap diminished the J.

My fathers name is Rustum, I was named Sohrab because in the Shanama and a later adaptation by Matthew Arnold, Persian Rustum had a son named Sohrab by a turkish princess. They were to fight each other as they were the greatest warriors of the warring sides. The Irony is that Sohrab fought Rustum to pay homage to his legend, I did it because I'm ashamed of mine.

I wrote this to provide insight to certain aspects of INTJ, feel free to let me hear yours. My knowledge of psychology is from personal readings and Psychiatry we took up, but by no means am I an expert.

[Rei]

I'm so comforted that someone's post was longer than mine ;D

[Max T]

Tricky question to answer. I recall from old psych. lessons that in the 60's it was believed approx. 50:50, but now considered more 75(nurture):25.
This nicely coincides with increased experimentation on twins etc.

In recalling childhood influences, perhaps we run the risk of only remembering signs of introversion, leading to our attributing Introv. to nurture. We see what we believe.

When in fact it may have been that our parents instantly recognised Introversion in us within months of birth (therefore bias to nature), and encouraged/ not dissuaded the trait from flourishing. Nature initiated what nurture took over.

But this anecdote swings the bias to nurture for me.
My older brother (raving Extrovert) positioned me by default as the Introvert within months of birth. My parents, likely relieved to have a quieter second kid, were fine with this... until I still hadn't spoken a word after 4 yrs. Doctor said I wasn't a simpleton (the cheek!) but was quietly observing. Just chose to allow my brother and my Lego do the talking.

[bikerscars]

father was an abusive alcoholic throughout my childhood

mother was rather distant; however pushed good grades above all else

i was raised semi-strict catholic with a good elementary school education as my foundation

i am the oldest of three boys...but the only intj (blacksheep of the family)

usually felt like an outsider in social situations; more so as i grew older

i was never good at small talk and god forbid i dance-so mingling with girls was limited throughout high school and the early 20's ::)

edit to change above post...youngest brother just took the test and is also an intj freak

:square:

[hopscotch]

I grew up with a bipolar younger brother with a lengthy list of learning disabilities. My parents expended great effort in diagnosing and treating his problems, and I was largely left to my own devices. Generally, I preferred the independence, but on the few occasions where I craved guidance and support, it was lacking. I felt it necessary to hide my depression for seven years because A. I thought my parents wouldn't believe me and think I was just using it to garner attention, and B. I didn't want to burden others with my problems because it would compromise my unwanted role as emotional crutch/psychiatrist which I felt obligated to continue playing even though I rebelled against it internally.

In school, I was regarded as a weird, emotionless hothead and was largely avoided. My disgust for vapid, carefree people didn't help much. The small group I associated with rarely met outside school and I spent most of my teenage years reading and plotting an escape.

I became increasingly bitter and isolationist, and moved 2,000km away for university to start anew. Being a pronounced introvert, I didn't make friends easily and again found myself alone. I made more of an effort to socialize and immerse myself in extracurriculars but still didn't make a connection to anyone but my boyfriend of the past four years. Although our relationship is stable and monogamous, I still hope for something better. He's an ENTJ and can be controlling at times. He also will not acknowledge criticism and often makes me feel like my opinions are invalid.

Complicating matters is the fact that my career choice probably isn't suited to my personality and I can't afford to return to school to get training in another field. Right now, I'm dissatisfied and kicking myself for not following my instincts.

This all sounds very 'woe is me' but I know I have the resourcefulness and drive to improve my situation in time. I'm just impatient for that moment to get here so I can seize it.

[brstng4]

I was adopted and the only child growing up in the home but otherwise grew up in a loving household when I was very young. I have a very large family and pretty much like everyone in it. My mother was very sick for part of the time, which left me to be raised mainly by my father and one of my aunts and uncles - which never bothered me because I always had fun and entertained myself. I was very quiet in school and even was referred to go to a 'special learning' program because they thought I was anti-social. That pissed me off even at a young age, and I hated going. I always made good grades throughout all of my schooling, and I wasn't really popular or the nerd, just quiet. I got along with pretty much everyone unless they were a complete idiot.

Anyways skip to around the age of ten, my family life started crumbling. I was never told of my adoption until the age of 18, which obviously had crippling effects. I always had a hunch that something wasn't right, and even asked my parents if I was adopted and they always struck back with no no your MINE. So that struck me all through my teenage years, the feeling of being 'different' than the rest of my family. I had all these traits that no one else had, and I just couldn't figure out where they came from. I can relate mostly to my dad, of being stubborn and independent. I liked to think on my own and didn't want someone pushing their beliefs on me. In middle school I had one good friend, and to this day we are still friends. In high school I opened up a bit, but not really until the age of 16. I played sports and did very well in school, normal kid I guess. I was pretty much ok with everyone, the popular kids, jocks, nerds, ect. but I never really hung out with any outside of school. My father fell ill my senior year of school, and passed away my freshmen year of college. That put a huge strain on my social life in high school, because I always had to go visit him in hospitals and such. My mother at this time and to this day is was very harsh with me, almost like she resents me or something. I had always been a daddy's girl though so me and my mom were never really that close to begin with. Anywho, thats a little of my story.

All in all I would say that in my life I have always remained somewhat distant from others, and a little different. Only my close friends (the like 2 that I have haha) would say that I am actually nice and fun to be around even though they still think I am distant at times. I do get a lot of- well I take them as compliments - 'your the weirdest person I've ever met' comments. Does anyone else get that?

[rasoirviolon]

Reading these past anecdotes has greatly surprised me since I always thought INTJs were so secretive they would not reveal this much of their lives. ...Although I suppose since this is in pursuit of an answer to a question, it serves an "intellectual" purpose.

I'm not very sure how much a a personal history I should divulge but I believe my medical history caused Mum to be especially overprotective of me. My twin and I were conceived through IVF and I'm the eldest out of three kids (well my father has a son and my triplet brother never made it). Born premature, flawed by three congenital heart defects, diagnosed with strabismus, exercise-induced asthma, PTSD and having survived two bouts of TB, I was kept away a lot. (Basically, I was the "sick" child). I think this contributed heavily to my introverted personality. I won't say I lived in a bubble but I was constantly monitored and my abilities under estimated.

Parents divorced when I was four. Mum remarried in 2002 and uprooted us to move here. Everything leading up to 2002 was stable since all the family is in Singapore. 8 months into the marriage, they divorced. Since then, Mum is back to being a single parent raising us here trying to eek out an existence. All these environmental experiences caused me to develop an unfeeling personality and rely more on my head than heart.

To a certain extent I think we are all born with natural traits but it is the environment we are in that causes us to develop them or to oppose our instinct personalities.

[bikerscars]

I do get a lot of- well I take them as compliments - 'your the weirdest person I've ever met' comments. Does anyone else get that?



yeah...sometimes i get the 'you're too smart/antisocial/weird/obsessive for your own good' comments...

i first consider the source and usually translate to 'you're very knowledgeable/private/unique/passionate and need to be more like us'

[brstng4]

Yeah I usually hate talking about my personal life, but hey nobody on here knows me so it makes no difference! Woohoo

I agree that it serves for intellectual purposes to let go of this private information. Not to mention, it seems as if everyone on here is pretty well educated and all, so it makes even more sense.

[rwyatt365]

Add to the mix...why not?

I'm the middle child of 3, with two sisters. All of us are separated by quite a few years so, given the gender gap and age differences, I was pretty much on my own as a child.

My parents are still married and are closing in on their 60 th anniversary. I can't say that their marriage was ideal though. My father is an ObGyn and he spent a large part of the time at the hospital, or in his clinic. I never bonded with him, in fact I didn't know him and didn't much like him. His mode of communication was to lecture us (literally) – we would sit down and have to listen to his latest "dissertation" on some subject or another. I was always glad when he had to leave.

My mother pretty much left me alone. I always had the feeling that she didn’t know what to do with me so she focused her attentions on the girls. That was fine with me 'cause that meant that I could devote my time to my interests; reading the encyclopedia (no, I didn’t just look things up, I read the entire set of Encyclopedia Britannica – weird kid, huh?), building model cars, gardening, and music (by the time I was 12 I had maybe 100 45's, mostly R&B). The thing I remember most about my mother is that she was an obsessive cleaner and she was totally subservient to my father – whatever he said – went, no matter what.

We were affluent and always lived well. I was conscious of that and played it down whenever I was around others. But that wasn't often, because I have very few friends. We moved around a lot as kids so I blamed my "friendlessness" on that, but in my heart I knew it was me. In grade school I can't remember one person that I hung with. In high school I was essentially invisible, I went nowhere, I did nothing with the other kids, I was a "ghost". I went to college without any compatriots and my first year there was in complete anonymity.

Looking at the above one might think that I was sad during all of this time. Quite the contrary – as a child and young adult I was never so satisfied as when I was able to do what I wanted without being hindered by anyone else. When I was in the company of other people I always felt the pressure to conform. It was almost palpable and I was extremely uncomfortable in its presence. When I could "do my thing" I was quite content.

I'm certain that "nature" has prevailed in my case. I can't remember being or thinking any differently that I do today (except through a conscious decision). "Nurture" contributed to shaping some opinions and likes/dislikes, but not by much.

[Rei]

That was fine with me 'cause that meant that I could devote my time to my interests; reading the encyclopedia (no, I didn’t just look things up, I read the entire set of Encyclopedia Britannica – weird kid, huh?), building model cars, gardening, and music (by the time I was 12 I had maybe 100 45's, mostly R&B).

I'm afraid you're only one of the many wierd kids among us. I used to read the encyclopedia too... Given, it was a kids version and less extensive. When I got older, I used to have these random peices of fact pop into my head during conversations... and I didn't know where they came from until I remembered I used to read the encyclopedia. :thumbsup:

[rwyatt365]

I'm afraid you're only one of the many wierd kids among us. *I used to read the encyclopedia too... Given, it was a kids version and less extensive. *When I got older, I used to have these random peices of fact pop into my head during conversations... and I didn't know where they came from until I remembered I used to read the encyclopedia. *:thumbsup:
My wife always exclaims, "How do you KNOW that stuff?!!", she didn't believe that I read the encyclopedia.

I was also scolded by a (so-called) science teacher for correcting her telling the class that the sun is NOT closer to the earth in the summer and that's why it is hotter. She didn't believe me until I brought in the book! INTJ-1, Elementary Science Teacher-0

[Rei]

I was also scolded by a (so-called) science teacher for correcting her telling the class that the sun is NOT closer to the earth in the summer and that's why it is hotter. She didn't believe me until I brought in the book! INTJ-1, Elementary Science Teacher-0

Oh man... That's probably why all my elementary school teachers hated me! I hate how teachers like to tell their students false information and expect us to just learn the truth when we get older. Chemistry courses were always so frustrating because everything we're taught were just 'stand-in' theories.

[orange]

I think I was born an INTJ.

My dad is an INTJ and noticed that I was as well at a VERY early age so he kind of sculpted me into more of an INTJ without me knowing it.

[the-writer]

My daughter is an INTP and didn't show any I tendencies until about 2 :-)

I was a very outgoing E during child hood.

During high school, my brother's best friend died (they were in college) and that started the shift to more of an I. Even then, though, I could spend hours alone (with baseball cards) as a kid. I think I was always energized by the alone time which means I was more of an I all along.

[GOD]

I think there is a genetic factor for sure.

However even the basic genetic concepts (Mendel) shows anyone that different varieties spawn further divergence.

Both my mother and father are INTJ and I am as well.

I don't think MBTI is correctly aligned to the underlying genetic trait basis (As its based on observation of outcomes) and as such you have this creating type errors and then you have the variety issue if your parents are different types.

I think IQ also plays a part, my sister and brother would be both ENTJ's, as they are very social. However they aren't that smart so I believe they have become extroverted as the required intellectual average in social situations is within their tolerance levels.

I think extreme INTJ's are just born that way, while many others are slightly that way and perhaps are more introverted etc because they are socially excluded (As an example), or just know other NT types that get them thinking more...enhancing their underlying traits.

NB: 70% of women have the F, thats genetic influences coming into play.

[thegnat]

I think it was genetic for me - from my real dad - a smart chemical engineer. However, I was never able to be around him and my mom and "dad" now are definitely not INTJs and I would say close to opposite, especially mom. I'm noticing more and more that our personalities are nearly opposite which is probably why we argue a decent bit and just disagree and probably why she gets on my case a lot of times and has done so in the past. I don't think she understands that I'm considerably different than her, she knows I'm different, I just don't think she realizes the extent - I think she wants me to be the same as her which creates conflict. And my strong will doesn't help anything. We also value different things. My "dad" now is just not intelligent. he's not emotional, but he's careless, and doesn't like to learn new things. technophobic - mom is too. they both argue with each other like none other and well I'm an only....

I think I'm noticing it more and more because I used to try to do what mom's yelled at me to do - but it has always not been successful. By now I've embraced my true personality. I've always been INTJ - just not an encouraged INTJ. And I have a strong enough will to kind of do my own thing. Do what *I* want to do not what others want me to do.

And I think I've also gotten more INTJ just with circumstances and tendencies.

I've always been curious - i used to collect rocks, watch national geographic, read science type books when i was younger...so all you 'weird kids' out there - i used to be one too...and I guess I still am haha.

[GOD]

I think it was genetic for me - from my real dad - a smart chemical engineer. *However, I was never able to be around him and my mom and "dad" now are definitely not INTJs and I would say close to opposite, especially mom. *I'm noticing more and more that our personalities are nearly opposite which is probably why we argue a decent bit and just disagree and probably why she gets on my case a lot of times and has done so in the past. *I don't think she understands that I'm considerably different than her, she knows I'm different, I just don't think she realizes the extent - I think she wants me to be the same as her which creates conflict. *And my strong will doesn't help anything. *We also value different things. *My "dad" now is just not intelligent. he's not emotional, but he's careless, and doesn't like to learn new things. technophobic - mom is too. *they both argue with each other like none other and well I'm an only....

I think I'm noticing it more and more because I used to try to do what mom's yelled at me to do - but it has always not been successful. *By now I've embraced my true personality. *I've always been INTJ - just not an encouraged INTJ. *And I have a strong enough will to kind of do my own thing. *Do what *I* want to do not what others want me to do.

And I think I've also gotten more INTJ just with circumstances and tendencies. *

I've always been curious - i used to collect rocks, watch national geographic, read science type books when i was younger...so all you 'weird kids' out there - i used to be one too...and I guess I still am haha.

Don't worry about not being "normal", by definition having half a brain is abnormal!

I think all proper INTJ's probably can point to some highly intellectual pursuit at an early stage in their lives.

[thegnat]

Don't worry about not being "normal", by definition having half a brain is abnormal!

Yeah - I don't worry about being "normal" anymore - I realized early that it was a fruitless pursuit if I tried to be (anyway what is normal? is it my normal, your normal, society's normal? your area's normal? your life style's normal?) I personally think being weird makes life more entertaining. Who wants to be the same as everyone else?

[Hexokinase]

I'd like to add to the mix as well. I'm uncertain as to what parts of my life and character I should disclose, since I have little to no background in determining Myers-Briggs characteristics, so I will do my best to keep my writing organized.

I have a younger brother. My parents separated when I was eight. The separation lowered my self-esteem quite a bit, so I took on humor as a defense mechanism for two subsequent years. I also began day-dreaming more often. I hadn't realized the reason for the humor and day-dreaming until just a few months ago during a meaningful conversation with a friend, so it wasn't very evident to me as to why I suddenly acted the way I did. My father was my best friend at home before then, so I felt lonely as a result, especially since my best friend at the time had moved out of the country right before the separation, contributing also to the humor and day-dreaming. Consequently, I lived with and grew up with my mother, who was ridiculously irrational at times and ofttimes refused to let my brother and me visit my father, and also imposed on us her various, irrational philosophies, which some extremists may label mental and physical child abuse. I can give an example of what happens to a person due to physical child abuse, or corporal punishment taken to the extreme: If I am unaware that a girl is going to come up from behind to give me a shoulder massage, I'd defend myself as though I was about to receive a beating.

I saved up $2000 by the time I was 10, because I was future oriented at a very young age, and she took it all from where I was attempting to hide it--the closet.

I didn't have another best friend until I was 10, and from then on I became more satisfied with my life. I found more meaning in going to school and my grades also began to have more meaning, since I was naturally competitive and more confident around my friends. I began taking on more hobbies as well.

Then came interest in girls, and I was the type to take a more rational route. But without guidance, because of my stubbornness and cultural differences between my parents and me, I had no confidence in and no support for how I wanted to pursue a particular girl. (I plan--which isn't surprising since we're all future oriented here.) So I relied on my more extroverted friends...and the extreme philosophies that were drilled into my head growing up...and long story short I didn't get her and her first impression of me went down the drain. But nonetheless. After my rookie blunder, I was able to successfully make another girl fall in love with me without any advice from anyone other than myself. Lesson learned: Always trust yourself, because you are an INTJ.

After I learned to trust myself, everything began falling into place, and I began to excel far beyond my expectations in most of my endeavors. I am now the pride of my family, and all of my friends look to me for career and relationship advice. The sad part is, which makes me a possible anomaly amongst INTJ's, is I'm still attracted to the very first girl I couldn't get. But I'm not fretting over it.

I probably am an anomalistical INTJ, since my percentages for each were in their lower 30's and lower when I took the exam. Perhaps one was in the 40's, but I'm a bit hazy on that.

Edit: I forgot to add: I can't see the subtleness in people that some of my other friends can that determines whether the person is in a bad mood or thinking of something or just saying something but meaning another thing. NO IDEA. But I wish I had an idea of what this is. This also affects my tactfulness, or slightly lack thereof; the slightness is due to practice. My ex's have also pointed this out to me. And by that note, I must end with I still don't fully understand women, a fact that I am now slightly more acceptable of after reading up on INTJ's.

[deicruxified]

hmm... about me?

well where do i start?

my father has been travelling a lot because of his work, he is a nautical engineer (father's side is a family of engineers and pilots. mothers side, painters, sculptors and musicians), so the duty calls for it. i haven't known him since i was 4. my mother on the other hand is an independent woman trying to be a father at the same time since my father has always been gone. she became very sickly since she gave birth to my sister as a lot of women get complications from giving birth. i am the eldest sibling so being the eldest, i've experienced the family's transition more than my sister did. before my family became financially stable, she would send me to other friends or relatives for caregiving because she's working at day. and since i'm the eldest, she thought i would best adapt to it than my month old sister at that time so i became used to not having mom around with me and under the care of other people and most of the time being transported from one place to another.

when the family has gone stable, mom claimed me back from my aunt, the last person who took care of me. now that she had more time to supervise me, she never slipped a second in guiding me. from hygiene to schoolwork. she's an austere woman and until now i never thought a kid like me survived her standards. if it happened today in our country, she could be charged of child abuse (seriously). just to give you an example of how she taught me, she would never let me stand up from the study table unless i completed recopying a story book without using the pencil's eraser. when i entered gradeschool, whenever i asked help for my assignments, she would often tell me to go study on my own then seeing her spoonfeeding my sister with all the information she needed in school that's why she turned into a spoiled brat. in addition, she always tell me that i am always responsible for my sister whatever happens... she never helped me in my problems as well so i just kept it for myself. she always told me that no one can help me but myself.

so there... i have been a solid intj since i started taking mbti's

[mind_wander]

Oh yeah, I just remember; putting all blonde jokes aside for the moment. But, anyone who's a blonde INTJ because I know there is so many blonde joke, like they have no clue on earth, what planet are they from, etc. etc. If your an INTJ, this is disproved; "Do you ever felt very offended?" The high majority of the times, I just ignore the blonde jokes; don't mind playing along for fun[in a nice way].

[Natrushka]

Re nature / nurture, I was under the impression I/E was genetic - partly, if not fully. I'll have to check later I am on my way home but I read something not long about about introversion / extroversion being determinable at very young ages based on how negatively / strongly subjects responded to stimuli.

[deicruxified]

Lesson learned: Always trust yourself, because you are an INTJ.
i like this one ;D

[banzai]

I think I was born with a mild case of INTJ that was blown up by my parents' personality.

Most of my genes are from my grandfather on my mother's side... I'm the only kid int my generation of the family that got them, it seems, but I have high hopes for my new cousin. :idea:

We are both very tall and tend to be rough around the edges. He was a rocket engineer, I am a network architect... both technical, engineering-related fields.

My parents are both very supportive, loving people. It would be a bald-faced lie to say my personality is a result of a lack of attention from them, they are great parents. However, my mom sometimes lacks common sense and my dad lacks acute decision-making skills (mother is a teacher, father is a counselor) These are both strong qualities of mine.

For the most part, growing up, my personality was recessive and misunderstood as sulking, anti-socialism, etc. As I grew up I became aware of my own abilities and have often been a bastion of reason when the family goes through tough times.

[Astra]

I think there is a genetic factor for sure.

However even the basic genetic concepts (Mendel) shows anyone that different varieties spawn further divergence.

Both my mother and father are INTJ and I am as well.

I don't think MBTI is correctly aligned to the underlying genetic trait basis (As its based on observation of outcomes) and as such you have this creating type errors and then you have the variety issue if your parents are different types.

Neither of my parents are INTJs. My dad is INTP but his sister was INTJ - although less I than I am, much more J and way more N. From what I've heard, their mother sounds like she must have been an INTJ too, which I think gave my aunt a lot of her self-confidence.

My mother is ISFJ, I think, which makes her a great mum when she's relaxed but hell on wheels when she's stressed - and not at all compatible with INTJs, unfortunately. I think I've picked up a bit of S and F from her as nuture rather than nature, but I'm less happy as an INTJ because of that, iyswim. No-one in her own family is an INTJ.

My sister is INTP (again, I think - haven't got her to do the test yet) - probably more I (even!) than I am.

I think the "problem" with MBTI and genetic traits lies in the fact that each of the four categories within each type can be somewhere on a spectrum from 1% to 100%. For instance, I'm very I, not especially N or J and very T so I'm probably not that similar to someone who's less I, much more N etc. And there's probably a whole load of genetic and environmental (in the womb, I mean) factors going into the mix to determine where you'd end up on each of those four spectrums (spectra?).

[Kfbr]

Well, I was one of seven kids, middle child. My parents split when I was 13ish, and I was a fatty fatty growing up. I think the fatty fatty turned me into INTJ. I was completely turned off to sports and people because of what dickshits kids can be, so I did a lot things solo, never cared for groups. I didn't really study in school, but was bored to tears. In fact, I dropped out in 9th grade and got my GED the following month.

I got into the business world, IT jobs starting with Microsoft and went to a tech school for computer science at 19. Was treated like shit by employers and people and went through a phase of cynicism from about 17 to 20.

At 20, I decided I wanted to work on my people skills, so I moved into a house with the two biggest players I could find. I found it fascinating how they could manipulate women and how easy they made dating look. Fascinating in the sense that I realized why my logical approach to women didn't work (that's another story for another thread). I got a job waiting tables, it's what they did, to meet people, work on social skills and build confidence. I turned my cynicism right around on its ass and turned it straight into cockiness.

That year I dropped out of tech school, got back into a real college and started over as a Political Science major. This was about when I was starting to realize who I was. I was a systems builder and a system fixer and what's the biggest system in this country? The government. It's going to take an INTJ to unfuck it, and there I'll be to do it.

[Laurel]

I'm the oldest of five children, however, there's a 6 year age gap between me and the second oldest. My parents were going though a lot of problems when i was young: they were extremely poor, my dad was trying to kick a cocaine addiction, and my mum was very young and suffered from extreme mood swings. I was raised primarily by my mother, my dad wasn't around much because he worked 70+ hours a week. When he was home, my parents would get into terrible rows. You could seriously hear them from three houses down. The fights usually stayed verbal, but occasionally objects would be thrown and I remember my dad shaking my mum a few times. During these arguments, I would scream at them to stop and would get told to shut up. Realizing at a young age that my father was unable to cope with reality and hurt our family, I shouldered a huge disdain for him that lasted well into my twenties. When I was a teenager, I turned on my mother as well for putting up with him. Besides those handicaps, I think I had a rather good childhood and was content most of the time. My mum would leave me alone for the most part. Quickly I learned that crying and tantrums didn't get me attention, so I stopped and quit wanting physical comfort. As I got older, I was criticized (and still am) for being 'cold.' My family calls me Ice Queen because I hate to be touched. In preschool and early elementary, I practically lived in the basement when not at school: my mother put cardboard up on the walls and drew furniture on it so i had a little playhouse. I had a bunch of imaginary friends, and preferred their company and my own to playing with others. I used to wage wars w/ toy soldiers and play games like chess, risk and monopoly against myself.

My parents entered me in catholic school when i was three which i hated. I constantly questioned the nuns on everything. Often, I had to sit in timeout and was referred to as 'trouble maker' even though I didn't have any behavioral problems. The idea of a god, or an afterlife, never made any sense to me, even as a young child. Eventually, my parents pulled me out and enrolled me in a public school which I enjoyed much more.

I guess that pretty much covers the formative years: I was a quiet, odd, borderline autistic kid w/ unstable parents.

[Santana28]

I'm an only child. My father is an INTJ who also happens to have borderline personality disorder, is an alcoholic, and abuses drugs. He's also the most intelligent person i have ever met in my entire lifetime, but his ambition only reaches the point where he is better than everyone else around him, and then no further. He has been jealous of me ever since i was born, got a vasectomy after i was born because he felt "trapped," and spent my entire childhood telling me that i was not wanted, and he only kept me and my mother around because he felt sorry for us. He also stressed control and made it known through random acts of control that he could do away with us at any time (literally). Very violent, disturbed, tortured, soulless man...

My mother is more than likely an ISFP... she has a quiet strength to her, but she is also most certainly histrionic and revolves her life around one emotional drama after the next. Also bipolar and alcoholic. When she was a child her mother committed suicide, her father threw her out, she started turning tricks for drugs, and lo and behold thats how she and my father met. Basically, my entire childhood - she lived without any sense of "self." She praised me open-endedly, which was more like an insult to me... "You're so smart. You're so talented. You can be anything and do anything you want. Etc." She stood by and never once defended me against the tyrant that was my father. She obeyed him without question, and never thought of herself - only pleasing him (which, btw, was impossible). She's not a particularly intelligent person, but i think somewhere she has the capacity for it, but no desire. She has no self, and no self-esteem. I did not respect her growing up. She stood for nothing.

Basically, growing up i was on my own. I always did well in school and never had any behavioral issues (or friends, for that matter). I just sat in my room or on the computer. I have always felt the need to be a good example for others, but i think thats mostly from growing up in an environment so sorely lacking in integrity or values. My first 17 years were pure hell - i had many issues during that time... none of which i will speak about here, but i kept them all to myself and bided my time until i could leave and start life on my terms. My father did everything he could to sabotage my future - and he succeeded in many ways, conventionally speaking. To this day he still tries to manipulate me financially. Eventually he threw me out of the house and i have been on my own ever since then. If we speak to one another once a year, just saying hi and goodbye, that is alot. My mother is still an alcoholic and bounces from one relationship to another... i dont even care to keep track. She calls me when she's drunk and needs reassurance that she was a good mother. I lie to her, and say "uh huh, sure mother.. uh huh..." until she finally hangs up.

In my head i have been the same on all important levels for all of my life. I have a lot of TP tendencies, but my father spent time hammering TJ methods into me that its more my primary way of handling things. I wouldn't change how i am for the world.