EURO 2012 MBTI Mash Up

[davai]

A little early I know but I wanted enough time for a poll before the first game.

For the Germans it'll be like 1941 all over again as their forces march through Poland to Soviet territory. The Spanish are primed to stop the German onslaught as they did back in '08 in the last final. The Italians won't be far behind them, and also the Dutch, who will look to avenge their defeat at the hands of the Spanish in the last world cup. This is - EURO 2012, war in Europe.

The teams.

A
Poland ISFJ – will probably need to play defensive Anti-football (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) to make up for their lack of ability, creativity a problem, will need to stay organised, midfield looks to contain play.
Greece INTJ – at times negative, cautious build up, game based around defence and tactical superiority, lacking flair, but don’t be surprised to see them invent something out of nothing.
Russia ESTP – could be a surprise package, physical, quick tempo and direct with a few tricks up their sleeve, altough missing some key players for the tournament.
Czech Republic INFP – want to play good attractive football, emulating Spain somewhat but keeping their own style, adaptability a strength and have individual players that could win the game.

B
Netherlands INTP – Total football (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) specialists at least in the past, these days more meat and organisation to their game, as well as that versatility and tactical excellence.
Denmark INFJ - organization important, lacking star players to open up the game but a team that’s undergone considerable transformation, an attacking team, could shock.
Germany ENTP – typically solid, dependable team, although now playing with more flair and dynamism due to a new generation of players, with this new inventiveness the Germans could be formidable.
Portugal ESFP – generally strong midfield, attack will be reasonably strong also, defensively weaker, flashy latin style like spain, but less potent.

C
Spain ISFP – play like Barca, Tiki-taka (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) style, creative, dominate possession with patient build up, lots of star players but play superbly well as a team also, defence their only slight weakness.
Italy ISTP – traditionally dull, Catenaccio (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) style, but with bravado and a bit of fire, tactics now evolved to a style more focused on a midfield possession game.
Republic of Ireland ESFJ – the plucky Irish, plays the British style - physical and direct, Trapattoni has them very well organized, though struggle with creativity and lack star players.
Croatia ENFP – technically gifted, strong attack and fairly solid all round except in defense, difficult to beat but find themselves in a tough group.

D
Ukraine ENTJ – attack very important and will need to be at their best to get through the group, home advantage may help, though by their own coach’s admission they will struggle defensively.
Sweden ISTJ – solid organization and team work their natural assets, disciplined and hard working, though lacking a killer instinct and creativity so will rely heavily on their star striker.
France ENFJ – good amount of flair and creativity, but also solid team play and organized, fairly attack minded and will want to dominate possession using their short passing game.
England ESTJ – traditional long ball (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) specialists, very physical, direct, fast, and no nonsense style, but lacking in creativity, Hodgson will probably have them playing 4-4-1-1 counter attack (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.-attacking_football) to utilize a lone target man.

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I'd also be up for doing pick ems for the tournament if there's enough interest. Basically where you pick the results and score points if you get it right. Whoever has most points at the end of the tournament wins.

[Zodd]

I need to ecucate myself more to give an opinion, right now I'd say Spain or Holland just because of two years ago, and by that logic France won't score a goal. I hope someone can close the poll before the first match starts. And then maybe set up another poll if the poule-fase is over. And another poll for the final.

Just some random thoughts; My favorite player two years ago was Ozil, what a tactician, INTJ style. I actually thought Holland played a bit better than Spain, and more fair (go ahead, post a gif of that flying kick), eventhough all my friends thought Spain played better. Dirk Kuyt is so bad, but no one notices. Would much rather see Affelay take his place. I don't really know how Robben scores so much goals, but somehow he keeps scoring, so what do I care.

Oh yeah, and a thought about if you play against Chelsea. If you are constantly attacking deep in their part of the field (close to their goal), they'll counter and you are probably not prepared for it. It might be smarter to not stay in that part of the field and let Chelsea come out of their shell a bit and then try to sting like a bee. Maybe by taking more risks (in situations that you can afford losing the ball, instead of situations in which Chelsea knows how to perfectly counter), or play deep, or just give them the ball a few times, haha kidding. That way they can't make such a dangerous counter and you can counter yourself, theres just no way getting trough that wall. And that Drogba, the bastard that he is, is just so good at that game of countering and the whole team just adjusts to him so good. And that coach is so cool, always chewing gum and having this smirk on his face, smiling and all, haha. He probably gives the players confidence in what they do.

[thehammer]

Group B is going to be fun to watch.

And don't talk bad about Dirk Kuyt. That's my dude.

[Zodd]

With the World Cup, Holland was in the hardest poule also, and the EC before that also I think. Now it is even more extreme; Holland, Germany, Portugal (both faggotteams). C and D are hard also with Croatia and Sweden and the obvious ones, but not as hard as B. But every team of poule A would be ranked last if they came in another poule. Well so it looks like to me.


What are some cool websites to learn a bit about the teams?

[Agent 00]

I don't think any Group A teams are going to get far past the group stage. Group B will be fun with the Netherlands and Germany probably progressing. Portugal just seems to play poorly together. Spain and Italy should emerge from Group C. I like the Italian defense and they typically play to that strength. England and France should get out of Group D as they have the depth of quality, but I wouldn't be too surprised if Sweden snatched a 1-0 result against one of them.

[davai]

I hope someone can close the poll before the first match starts.

Yep, it's set to close just after the first game kicks off, which isn't really going to influence anyone's opinion anyway.

[snip Chelsea comment]

Agreed, they were pretty much forced to play counter though, as will some of the teams in the Euros just to make up for their lack of ability. But they and Greece showed in '04 that although that style of play doesn't win many fans it can be very effective.

Group B is going to be fun to watch.


And C. Hoping the Danes and Irish can put up a good fight. By comparison it looks like D is gonna be pretty dull.

[Zodd]

I think you mean France and England winning easy? But Sweden is always dangerous right? Why do they make less chance on advancing than Croatia? I'd say even more chance because England and France did not do well last time, though England lost in a gay way to Germany.

[Agent 00]

What are some cool websites to learn a bit about the teams?

The FIFA website offers an easy place to see results: National Teams (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)

I would think the starting squads will be quite similar to those fielded in the World Cup for the larger sides, but all the choices aren't yet finalized as the teams are still playing friendlies to warm up for the competition.

I think you mean France and England winning easy? But Sweden is always dangerous right? Why do they make less chance on advancing than Croatia? I'd say even more chance because England and France did not do well last time, though England lost in a gay way to Germany.

England is always under pressure, and they play like that sometimes - winning easy isn't something I see them do often. France had a huge debacle personnel wise before the World Cup, and I would think that they'd like to atone for that. I am of the mind that two-year-old results matter little compared to current form. For Croatia, they'd have to get draws or wins vs. Spain and Italy which I don't see them doing. I think they have some real workhorses and creative players, but I don't see them outscoring Spain or getting through the Italian defense.

[davai]

I think you mean France and England winning easy? But Sweden is always dangerous right? Why do they make less chance on advancing than Croatia? I'd say even more chance because England and France did not do well last time, though England lost in a gay way to Germany.

No I don't think D is gonna be easy for any team. And yeah they lost badly to Germany at the world cup, which just showed the gulf in class between them. I think England will struggle to get out of the group, it'll be a minor miracle if they make it past the next round, and as for getting further than that, let's just not even go there.

[Anhedonic Lake]

Realistically, despite my poll choice, I think Germany will win. Spain have won everything. When you win everything the desire fades a bit. I see Spain and Ireland progressing at the expense of Italy and Croatia. Italy are not the world force they once were and Croatia are beatable.

This is the worst England squad in decades. That's good, as the press won't expect them to have a devine right to win every game. With no pressure and little expectations England could do fairly well.

[davai]

This is the worst England squad in decades.

Injury ravaged also, unfortunately.

2 days left to vote folks. Zodd i don't see your name there, have you educated yourself enough yet?

[SoundofSilence]

And don't talk bad about Dirk Kuyt. That's my dude.

I hope you're just joking around...

Winner:
Very likely
Spain - by far the best team + individual players

Likely
The Netherlands - only if players like Van Persie / Robben / Sneijder play a decent tournament (which is not very likely)
France
Germany

Outsiders
Portugal
Russia
Italy

That is my prediction..
@TS: Are you going to organize a pick'em tournament, btw? (I'm willing to help, if you need any).

[davai]

@TS: Are you going to organize a pick'em tournament, btw?

Who's TS? I mentioned pick'ems in the OP but no-one else seems to be interested so far. I won't be around for the next week after today, so i might post my predictions later for the games when i'm not here, just incase we do end up having a little tourny.

---------- Post added 06-05-2012 at 06:44 PM ----------

(I'm willing to help, if you need any).

Cool. Not sure there's much to do, just need people and predictions really. But as i said i won't be here for a week so you're welcome to do some organizing.

[SoundofSilence]

Who's TS? I mentioned pick'ems in the OP but no-one else seems to be interested so far. I won't be around for the next week after today, so i might post my predictions later for the games when i'm not here, just incase we do end up having a little tourny.

TS = topicstarter

Hmm, okay nevermind then. I'll just drop my predictions here. If there are more people interested I could arrange something though..

[davai]

Here's my first load anyway in case we decide to play.


winners in bold

POL/GRE - draw (if we don't count draws then GRE)
RUS/CZE

NED/DEN
GER/POR

ESP/ITA
IRL/CRO

FRA/ENG
UKR/SWE - draw (if not SWE)

GRE/CZE
POL/RUS

i'll be back from holiday after these

definitely watching the england game in a pub somewhere :popcorn:

[thehammer]

I hope you're just joking around...

Why would I be?

[SoundofSilence]

Why would I be?

For obvious reasons. The man can't play football. He'd make a much better marathon walker..

[thehammer]

For obvious reasons. The man can't play football. He'd make a much better marathon walker..

I don't like him for his skill (or lack thereof); he's a hard worker with seemingly limitless energy who has a knack for making a big play when his team (usually Liverpool) needs one. Unfortunately he's played his last game as a Red, though. I was actually sad when he announced his move to Fenerbahçe.

[Zodd]

Bwah, if you just have a normal professional sportsman attitude you can keep outrunning everybody in a soccermatch. Any guy from another sport can easilily outrun soccerplayers. It's because soccerplayers have such a big ego and I don't think they train seriously for conditioning. I THINK, never played much soccer on a big field and I don't follow soccertrainings beyond what is on TV, and I barely watch TV also, and barely soccer or sport programs, but still I've watched quite a lot more than nothing at all. Other athletes train go till dead at least every 4 days, I think. So when I see a soccerplayer outworking other soccerplayers I don't hold him on a pedestal, but more think the other soccerplayers have a weak mentalility.

[thehammer]

Good for you, I guess. I played the sport for 12 years and still follow it pretty closely. I'll stick with my own opinion, thanks.

[Zodd]

Yeah, but have you also done other sports? Where it is expected of you to finish with an empty gas tank.

---------- Post added 06-07-2012 at 07:49 AM ----------

Have you done the Tour de France?

[thehammer]

What a silly question.

[SoundofSilence]

Bwah, if you just have a normal professional sportsman attitude you can keep outrunning everybody in a soccermatch. Any guy from another sport can easilily outrun soccerplayers. It's because soccerplayers have such a big ego and I don't think they train seriously for conditioning. I THINK, never played much soccer on a big field and I don't follow soccertrainings beyond what is on TV, and I barely watch TV also, and barely soccer or sport programs, but still I've watched quite a lot more than nothing at all. Other athletes train go till dead at least every 4 days, I think. So when I see a soccerplayer outworking other soccerplayers I don't hold him on a pedestal, but more think the other soccerplayers have a weak mentalility.

I almost forgot football was all about outrunning people. Thanks for reminding me! :facepalm:

Football is all about the passing game.

[Zodd]

Still it is an aspect of the game and they get payed millions and it wouldn't surprise me if there are people who actually kill themselves because their team lost. With martial arts the point is to finish your opponent but it can happen you'll have to rely on your stamina, so it is also just an aspect. But there isn't a single gym that will train you if you don't put everything in training your stamina, unless you have a good record or are famous or have another tool to get money. You hear all the time that the soccer superstars get lazy and just decide not to run for a ball/position, I agree it sounds silly but you can never overlook the stupidity of humans and a lot of professional soccerplayers come of as giant douchebags.

[SoundofSilence]

Still it is an aspect of the game and they get payed millions and it wouldn't surprise me if there are people who actually kill themselves because their team lost. With martial arts the point is to finish your opponent but it can happen you'll have to rely on your stamina, so it is also just an aspect. But there isn't a single gym that will train you if you don't put everything in training your stamina, unless you have a good record or are famous or have another tool to get money. You hear all the time that the soccer superstars get lazy and just decide not to run for a ball/position, I agree it sounds silly but you can never overlook the stupidity of humans and a lot of professional soccerplayers come of as giant douchebags.

It certainly is an aspect of the game, but for most positions it's of no importance. I'd even go as far as saying that it's only important for wingers / fullbacks.
Stamina is more important though, but pretty much all professional players can, under normal circumstances, play for the full 90 minutes.

I'm really curious where you hear that kind of BS. It seems to me that you never or barely watch football. Most of the professional players, this counts for all sports, have a sportsman drive and will give all it takes to make their team win. There are exceptions however, but that's not just a football problem.

Wait, lots of professional football players come of as 'douchebags', but martial arts fighters don't?

[Zodd]

So if there isn't a need to be at your best condition than the statement that Dirk Kuyt can bring in that extra steps is false. Well maybe he can, but that just shows the others a douchebags.

I hear it on tv, there is this soccerprogram with a panel. Mostly consists of 3 guys, that have been very good trainers/footballers/analytics, mostly all of them, supposedly. And they always talk about soccerplayers getting lazy. They also talk about how a lot of players they knew personally were douchebags. They also say about a lot of players including themselves often went to nightclubs, drinking till 6 in the morning and before they went back to their hotel go to a prostitute, while they had a match at midday.

It's not that weird that it is more extreme in soccerstars because of the world they grow up in, especially in countries like Holland were people are so extreme about soccer.

Martial artists are also douchebags, but in a different way I think. And they certainly have a good work ethic.

---------- Post added 06-07-2012 at 11:50 AM ----------

Besides, if you are from the US, I know a lot more about the players because they come more from my culture than yours. Plus I know how the soccer culture is.

[SoundofSilence]

So if there isn't a need to be at your best condition than the statement that Dirk Kuyt can bring in that extra steps is false. Well maybe he can, but that just shows the others a douchebags.

I hear it on tv, there is this soccerprogram with a panel. Mostly consists of 3 guys, that have been very good trainers/footballers/analytics, mostly all of them, supposedly. And they always talk about soccerplayers getting lazy. They also talk about how a lot of players they knew personally were douchebags. They also say about a lot of players including themselves often went to nightclubs, drinking till 6 in the morning and before they went back to their hotel go to a prostitute, while they had a match at midday.

It's not that weird that it is more extreme in soccerstars because of the world they grow up in, especially in countries like Holland were people are so extreme about soccer.

Martial artists are also douchebags, but in a different way I think. And they certainly have a good work ethic.

Why would that statement be false? I'm just saying it is not a necessity, but Dirk Kuyt has a great stamina to make up for the lack of general football skills (ball control, dribbling, vision, etc..). Players like Xavi don't have a great stamina for the simple reason that they have outstanding football skills.

Lol, are you talking about 'Studio Voetbal'? They're just sitting there talking BS, because they want to attract as many viewers as possible, so they're just talking about random anecdotes that they think viewers want to hear. Another point is that they're mainly talking about what happened back in the day, if you really want to be successful now you should live for football. I'm not claiming there are no football players who live like that, but you're generalizing. Football players are just like 'normal' people, some go clubbing and some don't.

I disagree. There are not many players with such a flamboyant lifestyle. Again, you're generalizing.

Edit (reaction to your last sentence): I'm Dutch.:wacky: Please don't say I don't know what I'm talking about..

[Zodd]

But if stamina isn't a problem mostly, then why is it that Dirk Kuyt can have such an edge in it? And how can he make up with it for his lacking general football skills? Why can't you have perfect football skills AND perfect stamina?

haha, no, Voetbal International, quite love that program, though it makes me cringe often aswell. I suck at typing and hate doing that, but Johan Derksen INTJ?

I'm not saying they don't live for soccer, but maybe not as much as martial artists live for martial arts. Or maybe a lot don't live for football, but just use it as a tool to get into the lifestyle and are very determined.

But the lack of stamina maybe has more to do with training dogmas. When I think back about my training when I was a puppy, it was always about having fun and when I talk to others my age now, they are always complaining about when they have to run around the field and sometimes even are talking about quitting if the trainer continues to let them do that to much. With martial arts I only remember doing only one fun thing once, and that was as a warmup. I don't follow much soccer, but sometimes I hear what they do on their trainings and a lot of it is filled with fun stuff that isn't perfect for training if I think about it and when you see them train you see them giggle and talk a lot more than with other athletes it seems. Quite a difference with martial arts, were you sometimes get beaten with a stick if you can't go anymore. So the mentality might be different, or it just is the best training method but to me it seems unlikely that is the case for professional athletes. As a professional you need to be able to stay focussed on difficult tasks from 9 to 5.

---------- Post added 06-07-2012 at 12:39 PM ----------

Btw, I voted for Spain, mostly because Rene van der Gijp said they have the best quality players by far and 2 years ago he almost exactly predicted how the tournament for Holland went, plus he always talks a lot of sense, and they were winning in this poll also. If I can login into my betting acount I'm going to bet on Holland, though, for the fun.

[SoundofSilence]

But if stamina isn't a problem mostly, then why is it that Dirk Kuyt can have such an edge in it? And how can he make up with it for his lacking general football skills? Why can't you have perfect football skills AND perfect stamina?

haha, no, Voetbal International, quite love that program, though it makes me cringe often aswell. I suck at typing and hate doing that, but Johan Derksen INTJ?

I'm not saying they don't live for soccer, but maybe not as much as martial artists live for martial arts. Or maybe a lot don't live for football, but just use it as a tool to get into the lifestyle and are very determined.

But the lack of stamina maybe has more to do with training dogmas. When I think back about my training when I was a puppy, it was always about having fun and when I talk to others my age now, they are always complaining about when they have to run around the field and sometimes even are talking about quitting if the trainer continues to let them do that to much. With martial arts I only remember doing only one fun thing once, and that was as a warmup. I don't follow much soccer, but sometimes I hear what they do on their trainings and a lot of it is filled with fun stuff that isn't perfect for training if I think about it and when you see them train you see them giggle and talk a lot more than with other athletes it seems. Quite a difference with martial arts, were you sometimes get beaten with a stick if you can't go anymore. So the mentality might be different, or it just is the best training method but to me it seems unlikely that is the case for professional athletes. As a professional you need to be able to stay focussed on difficult tasks from 9 to 5.

Well, he can be all over the field and he somehow tends to be at the right place at the right moment. Coaches like Bert van Marwijk and Rafael Benitez like players like Kuyt just because they put a lot of energy in a match; he works very hard for the team. You can't be perfect, but you can get close. Look at Cristiano Ronaldo: great stamina, great football skills. If you're aiming for a great stamina and big muscles, you're going to lose agility, etc so it's a trade-off.

Even worse. You can't take them seriously. They've played at small clubs like KSC Lookeren and MVV, so that's not a good representation of the Eredivisie players etc. He's more XSTX, so no.

That's just an assumption.

Such a crooked comparison. Like I said, they're not lacking stamina, as long as they can play for a full match, what is the problem? You should definitely watch a few matches of Spain during Euro 2012. That is how football is meant to be played. Focus on their midfield while watching. Players like Iniesta/Xavi/Silva/Busquets don't need to be strong or fast or whatever, because they can compensate with skill.
They're not training for stamina only, because they don't need it. Just look at this. (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) By the way, is it forbidden to enjoy a training session?

Anyway, we're way off-topic. PM/VM me if you want to continue the discussion (in Dutch).

Yes, by far the best squad. Wouldn't bet on the Netherlands, but whatever you want..

[frontaLobotomy]

As with all international football tournaments, I'll be backing Germany to win. Their unit is always scary, and Spain could struggle without senior figures like Puyol and Villa. Italy may end up winning it on the back of a match fixing scandal, much like in the 2006 world cup, and 1982 if I remember correctly.

I prefer not to watch international football if I can help it, the standard is inferior and is geared towards sissies and divers (much like in UEFA competitions, and La Liga), the only team I'll go out of my way to watch will be the Irish, as they always have my support.

[Zodd]

look. you said:

1. Dirk Kuyt has better stamina
2. Stamina is never a problem in soccer

So why is it that Kuyt has better stamina and that improves the team, while you say everybody already has perfect stamina? Are you saying it's because it fits his style? And he is probably the most muscled guy from the team.

My friends said Rene van der Gijp could be one of TEH Dutch soccerplayers if he wanted to, but he was to lazy and wanted to party. Johan Derksen is chief-editor of the most popular soccermagazine in Holland, that must need some credential. The rest of the panel is there for other reasons besides analyzing, except when a guy like Willem van Hanegem drops in ofcourse. Plus you gotta say they talk sense, no denying that.

If it is like tica-taca there is always people on the move, from the team without the ball but also the team with the ball, or else they can't progress. Besides not all teams play a tica taca style or even close to it. You can't make a point that you can stand completely still and you can't make a point that you are always on the move. Besides I already said I don't know if I believe if people say they just let a ball go because they are tired or to lazy because it wouldn't make much sense, but people supposedly knowledgable say that A LOT.

And I checked Rene's wikipedia, PSV and even the national team. So that is a good representation of the eredivisie players. Besides Johan Derksen knows a lot of them in person even if he didn't play with them. "You can't take them serious...", Johan and Rene obviously make a lot of sense. Who's advice do you take seriously? I want to prepair myself better for the tournament.

[SoundofSilence]

look. you said:

1. Dirk Kuyt has better stamina
2. Stamina is never a problem in soccer

So why is it that Kuyt has better stamina and that improves the team, while you say everybody already has perfect stamina? Are you saying it's because it fits his style? And he is probably the most muscled guy from the team.

My friends said Rene van der Gijp could be one of TEH Dutch soccerplayers if he wanted to, but he was to lazy and wanted to party. Johan Derksen is chief-editor of the most popular soccermagazine in Holland, that must need some credential. The rest of the panel is there for other reasons besides analyzing, except when a guy like Willem van Hanegem drops in ofcourse. Plus you gotta say they talk sense, no denying that.

If it is like tica-taca there is always people on the move, from the team without the ball but also the team with the ball, or else they can't progress. Besides not all teams play a tica taca style or even close to it. You can't make a point that you can stand completely still and you can't make a point that you are always on the move. Besides I already said I don't know if I believe if people say they just let a ball go because they are tired or to lazy because it wouldn't make much sense, but people supposedly knowledgable say that A LOT.

And I checked Rene's wikipedia, PSV and even the national team. So that is a good representation of the eredivisie players. Besides Johan Derksen knows a lot of them in person even if he didn't play with them. "You can't take them serious...", Johan and Rene obviously make a lot of sense. Who's advice do you take seriously? I want to prepair myself better for the tournament.

Apparently I didn't make myself clear. I'm not saying stamina is never a problem in football and I'm also not trying to say that everyone's stamina is perfect. My point is that pretty much every footballer can play a full match, but not the way Kuyt plays. Kuyt's stamina is a necessity for his playing style, the man runs a lot. He works hard for the team by helping the defence (even when playing as a striker) and making runs. He doesn't necessarily improve a team however, he would be of no use in the Barcelona squad, for instance. Players like Xavi don't need it, because they only have to make small runs and the team has like 80% ball possession every game.

I'm not sure about that, I have never seen him play live, but from the Youtube videos I've seen he might have had the potential. Sure, they obviously know something about football, but that doesn't make them always right. I prefer to have my own opinion, based on my own football knowledge.

Always people on the move, agree, but that are always very small runs. It's not just mindless running, those are smart positioning moves (they don't want to waste valuable energy). I suggest you watch a Spain match and analyze it closely. I agree again, there are lots of teams out there which heavily depend on the player's stamina for the simple reason that they can't afford highly skilled players. Those 'knowledgeable' people have to moan about something, right?

I stopped watching programs like that, because it's a waste of time. I feel like I know enough to form my own opinion.

[Zodd]

"They don't want to waste valuable energy"
So it would be benificial for them to have better stamina.

They don't even have to be right, as long as they provide an interesting point of view. Even if Voetbal International is a waste of time, which it isn't for me, it's still fucking fun to watch. I'm sure Rene van der Gijp would die laughing if he read Zibber's posts about women's physics.

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[SoundofSilence]

"They don't want to waste valuable energy"
So it would be benificial for them to have better stamina.

They don't even have to be right, as long as they provide an interesting point of view. Even if Voetbal International is a waste of time, which it isn't for me, it's still fucking fun to watch. I'm sure Rene van der Gijp would die laughing if he read Zibber's posts about women's physics.

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

That was poor phrasing. I meant: why would they want to use more energy than necessary?

I agree. They have some interesting opinions and information from time to time. I used to watch VI every Monday and Friday, but now I could spend my time on more useful things. What post are you referring to?

[Anhedonic Lake]

I think Russia could really be a dark horse in this tournament. They destroyed the Czech republic the other day and even Ireland's defence struggled to contain them in the qualifiers. There's an element of the unknown about them, especially their younger players. Of course their massive population gives them a huge advantage from the outset.

[SoundofSilence]

I think Russia could really be a dark horse in this tournament. They destroyed the Czech republic the other day and even Ireland's defence struggled to contain them in the qualifiers. There's an element of the unknown about them, especially their younger players. Of course their massive population gives them a huge advantage from the outset.

They played fantastic! Should be pretty easy for them to get through to the knock-out stage.

What a bad game from the Netherlands last night..:disappointed:

[davai]

I think Russia could really be a dark horse in this tournament.

Difficult to say after last night. I didn't watch all of it cus i couldn't keep my eyes open, not that it was a boring game though. Kinda hope the Poles go through. Why i dunno, but it's their own tourny and i always support the underdogs. Russia should still go through if they get a point against Greece (i think?)....


What a bad game from the Netherlands last night..:disappointed:

A chance to redeem themselves tonight. This is one i've really been looking forward to. I think they'll up their game for the Germans, they'll have to. This is a must win game for them isn't it? I haven't closely looked at the tables yet though.

---

So yeah, watched the 1st England game in the US on Monday, lots of French there too it seemed. Overall i'm happy with a point after playing pretty averagely. Defence and team shape was good, but predictably they didn't create much, happy to let France have the ball and come at them. Still have that problem of dropping so deep that they can't get out of their own half but they were really tiring towards the end. Not bad for the first game though, bring on the Swedes!

[SoundofSilence]

Difficult to say after last night. I didn't watch all of it cus i couldn't keep my eyes open, not that it was a boring game though. Kinda hope the Poles go through. Why i dunno, but it's their own tourny and i always support the underdogs. Russia should still go through if they get a point against Greece (i think?)....



A chance to redeem themselves tonight. This is one i've really been looking forward to. I think they'll up their game for the Germans, they'll have to. This is a must win game for them isn't it? I haven't closely looked at the tables yet though.

---

So yeah, watched the 1st England game in the US on Monday, lots of French there too it seemed. Overall i'm happy with a point after playing pretty averagely. Defence and team shape was good, but predictably they didn't create much, happy to let France have the ball and come at them. Still have that problem of dropping so deep that they can't get out of their own half but they were really tiring towards the end. Not bad for the first game though, bring on the Swedes!

Yes, the Russians only need 1 point to get through.

The Netherlands could still go through if they lose tonight, theoretically..

[davai]

The Netherlands could still go through if they lose tonight, theoretically..

Yeah you're right, but they'll be relying on Germany beating the Danes and getting a sizeable win over Portugal to go through on goal difference. If Germany don't need to win, then they could play squad players against the Danes and easily end up drawing or losing.

[Zodd]

Ok, my thoughts about Holland.

Bert Van Marwijk (coach) needs to get his head out of his ass because he sticks to much with his system that got Holland to the finals in the WC. The players have changed since then and his system doesn't work anymore. Now we need to focus on Huntelaar and Van Persie who are topscorers in German competition and English competition last season respectively. The defending midfield also has become weak. The wings, Robben and Affelay play on the opposite side of what they are used to, so that they can go to the middle of the field on their good leg. The backs are supposed to fill in the role as classic wings.

It sounds good, but it doesn't work at all. First of he leaves Huntelaar on the bench, who has had more succes than Van Persie. Van Persie has his position deep. But the problem is no one is able to pass to Van Persie. Robben is blind when he dribbles to the middleground and Affelay just doesn't, he just passes the ball instead. The backs who should take the classic wing position, never do that. Plus that when Van Persie needs to get the ball from Robben or Affelay (or maybe Sneider), he doesn't see the goal and what's inbetween. Van Persie needs to be played like in Arsenal, where he scored a lot of goals, but with Van Marwijk's system it doesn't seem to work. Also we have TWO very good deep gunners. Huntelaar should be almost on the exact same level and they can easily place Huntelaar deep, Van Persie behind him, and Sneijder taking over one of the guys in the defensive midfield. This would solve so many problems:

*There is no rivalry between Huntelaar and Van Persie and that will lift a lot of pressure on both of them.
*Sneijder can play any role better than everybody from the team.
*We gain Huntelaar, a top player and lose Van Bommel, one of the worst players.
*I even heard Van Persie his role comes more closely to that from in Arsenal if they play like this.
*Sneijder can become captain. He's always very cool, easily the best player and always has a center role and is already taking on a leading role. On the other hand Van Bommel (captain now) clearly can't handle the pressure after the first goal of Denmark, he is one of the worst players of the team, he doesn't fulfill his role completely. He seems a good captain, though.
*Van Bommel is the son in law of the coach and he is bad at interviews, very much the same as the coach. Van Bommel and Van Marwijk always say they played good but they just had bad luck and the other team played really solid. While Sneijder does a much better job, more neutral.
*The problem of having a bad defensive midfield is solved.
*The decision of switching the wings is solved because especially Huntelaar needs to be played from the back of the field.
*This would be much better because players can do what they are good at and not play tied down to Van Marwijk's system.
*This is what the people in Holland are begging for.

Some minor opinions. I like Affelay and they should keep him in, but I can understand why they would rather have Kuyt. Affelay just has the skills to get the job done. All this talk that he didn't get to play many minutes in Barcelona I think isn't that important. Sure last matches he wasn't that good, but that was also with many players who we know they normally play a solid game. I'd rather see them losing Bouma (plays next to Van Bommel) maybe, maybe even put Van Der Vaart in his place. But possibly they need that switch for more attacking purposes. The only players I think I don't hate personally for their sportsmanship are Affelay, Huntelaar, Kuyt, Willems. And Sneijder mixed feelings because he's such a moron outside the field but he has a good sportmentality


I think it's important that they do this from the start against Portugal, or they start sucking and they are mentally broken and can't even anymore even when they have the right players in the right position. What the problem I think is, is that it would be a really bad career choice for Van Marwijk. If he gives into the media now, and he wins with how I mentioned, he'll look like a fool. I think this plays in his head subconsiously. If he loses with his system against Portugal, he can just say it was bad luck or blame it on the players. If he wins against Portugal with the system everybody in Holland is begging him for, it just shows he was absolutely delusional in the first two matches. Though ofcourse he could win with his system and he could lose with the good system, but those chances are way more unlikely.

---------- Post added 06-14-2012 at 03:00 PM ----------

Oh and BTW. Quite important for Holland. Germany needs at least a draw to be sure of it's place in the quarter finals. Robben knows a lot of players in the German team, I think at least 6 who normally play, maybe 8. Huntelaar also played in Schalke and he was topscorer. So if Germany plays with their normal team (most likely since they need a draw), a lot of people in their team might want to go for the win even more because of Robben and Huntelaar. Plus they will try to be a point ahead of Denmark because then they don't have to worry about Denmark scoring in the last minute which could be THEIR END. The German coach seems very sportmanshiplike and likes Holland.
Still it is the absolute worst situation you can imagine for the Dutch, to be in the hands of the Germans!

---------- Post added 06-14-2012 at 03:04 PM ----------

Oh and I forgot again. They might go through even if Germany wins with 1-0 and Holland wins with 1-0. That would mean Denmark, Portugal and Holland are even in "matchpoints" and in "goalpoints". I think the UEFA will look then who is the highest ranked. I think Holland is ranked #6 and Portugal is ranked #4. I don't know how they will shift the rankings based on losing/winning from Denmark and losing/winning from Portugal/Holland. I guess nothing changes and Portugal will go through if they will look at rankings.

---------- Post added 06-14-2012 at 03:26 PM ----------

ah fucking gay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I just read they give the team with the most goals the edge, so 5-4 > 4-3. What fucking logic is that? Retards. If anything, it should be the other way around. If you score 5 goals and the other team 4, in 3 matches, then in 60 matches it will be 100-80. While with 4-3 in 3 matches equals 80-60 in 60 matches. And by the time you have 100 goals the other team will only have 75.

Same gayness that they don't want referee's being able to judge based on videoreplay, but this is even worse I think.

---------- Post added 06-14-2012 at 03:30 PM ----------

haha, imagine if it was 1-0 against 8-7 or something.

[Anhedonic Lake]

Two bad results by the Dutch. Looks like they're going out bar a miracle. A bad start by Ireland. A couple of dodgy decisions went against them but the defense seemed to have stage fright in the first half. Some Russian "fans" are behaving like neanderthals. Russia poised have six points docked from them in the group stage of the next Euro qualifiers due to this. Seems like a big mistake to have a world cup staged in Russia right now...
My hypothetical money is on Germany. They seem the most consistent.

[davai]

Nice analysis Zodd. So what's this about the highest ranked team going through? As i understand it Germany need to beat Denmark - which they probably will to be assured top spot in the group - and Holland have to beat Portugal by two clear goals to go through. After goals scored doesn't it go down to the individual result between the teams? Actually scratch that i just looked it up on wiki

Tie-breaking criteria (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts._stage)

If two or more teams are equal on points on completion of the group matches, the following criteria are applied to determine the rankings:[39]

higher number of points obtained in the matches among the teams in question;
superior goal difference in the matches among the teams in question (if more than two teams finish equal on points);
higher number of goals scored in the matches among the teams in question (if more than two teams finish equal on points);
superior goal difference in all the group matches;
higher number of goals scored in all the group matches;
position in the UEFA national team coefficient ranking system;
fair play conduct of the teams (final tournament);
drawing of lots.

Ok .... this seems odd. Does this mean the individual result between teams comes before overall goal difference? Seems as though it does...which sucks i think. So anyway, yeah if both final matches end in 1-0 wins for Germany/Holland then it seems like Portugal would go through, is that right? Because they would've scored the most goals between the teams in question. Shit, if this happens it's a bit of mindfuck, i could be wrong so i'm gonna have to think about it later. Just hope it doesn't go down to the ranking system. I can't see how it would go further than that though (drawing lots).

Anyway, the Dutch just need 2 clear goals. They should be able to do it, they just need to sort the defence out. Take out Willems maybe, and i would definitely put Van Der Vaart in there somewhere.

---------- Post added 06-14-2012 at 03:05 PM ----------

Some Russian "fans" are behaving like neanderthals. Russia poised have six points docked from them in the group stage of the next Euro qualifiers due to this.

I heard about that. Seems harsh that the whole country gets punished because of the actions of a stupid minority.

[Anhedonic Lake]

Yes, but the ultra far right is a major issue in Russia right now. I think a world cup hosted in Russia would be a disaster. Then again Fifa handed a World cup to Qatar. I believe my back yard has a bigger population than Qatar, also the heat will dehydrate the fans-let alone the players- and if you like to enjoy a drink or if you're gay then be prepared for some serious self discipline. Fifa is a joke to be fair though. Uefa is a bit more respectable.

[davai]

Fifa is a joke to be fair though. Uefa is a bit more respectable.

They're the sort of creepy organizations that would take power in some post apocalyptic world. It probably doesn't even have to be apocalyptic really. They pretty much work like a dictatorship as it is.

5 signs of that you are turning into a dictator (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)

Just genocide to complete the set. And who knows that Blatter and Co. aren't already funding that sort of shit indirectly. Wouldn't surprise.

Anyways, the football. Ireland out, smashed to bits. Should be a good battle between the other 3 in the remaining games.

[thehammer]

I want to watch the Welbeck goal over and over again.

[davai]

I want to watch the Welbeck goal over and over again.

Best game of tournament so far, best goal by a long fucking shot!!! C'mon England you mother fuckers!!!!!!!!

[Zodd]

I wish I was Irish. They win every game even if they lose. The Irish show sportmanship I miss in soccer.

I'm 90% sure Huntelaar will start the game against Portugal and 75% sure a defensive midfielder (De Jong or Van Bommel, most likely Van Bommel) won't play. For the rest everything can stay the same or can be changed.

Sweden was super boring the first half. They stood a point behind and they just hoped they would score a goal shooting from afar with countless enemies in between. They didn't try to advance (dribble/pass through or around it). Second half was the complete opposite.

I think I'll try to get into the Premier League. What are the good TV and webshows that talk for 75% about soccer related stuff? And are based out of England?

[davai]

I wish I was Irish. They win every game even if they lose. The Irish show sportmanship I miss in soccer.

Yeah man. The fans were amazing last game. Great to see both sets of fans enjoying the game together.

Sweden was super boring the first half. They stood a point behind and they just hoped they would score a goal shooting from afar with countless enemies in between. They didn't try to advance (dribble/pass through or around it). Second half was the complete opposite.

They started cautious as we knew they would, they kinda had to as England are known for being good on the counter. But yeah when they actually started attacking with force they got a couple of goals. The first was laughable, i'm not even sure what happened there, i'll have to check out the replays again. The 2nd was an easy header and England's defence was all over the place. Sweden had about 3 unmarked players in there that could've scored i think. Being one of the tallest teams (maybe the tallest?) in the tournament they were always gonna be an aerial threat, they should've probably utilised that advantage more. But then England brought on Theo Walcott who was absolutely amazing. The best i've seen him play in an international i think. Even the goal and assist aside he provided something extra with his runs. That dude is so fast.

Now Shrek is back from suspension though. Should he play or what? I would perhaps give him half a game at least. I think Hodgson is gonna drop Carroll for him which will shift the focus of the attack and maybe make it more fluid. I wish Young would start to play better, i would keep him in but he needs to do more. I'm glad Roy's finally seen the light too and dropped Stewart Downing. What a waste of space that guy is. At least he's consistent though, consistently awful. Milner also looks pretty average but he does seem to provide good defensive cover for Glen Johnson on the right, so i would keep him in too. Gerrard of course needs to stay. The defence they have now is probably the best we have. I didn't think they would be so exposed on set pieces though, so that needs sorting out.

On the whole though pretty good. Wish England could play like that all the time instead of just when they're chasing the game. Argh!

Best of luck to the Dutch tomorrow. The tournament would be worse off if they went out without seeing the best of them.

I think I'll try to get into the Premier League. What are the good TV and webshows that talk for 75% about soccer related stuff? And are based out of England?

MOTD (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) maybe. It's a highlights show which is on the weekends on tv but i assume you can watch it on this site anytime. Good if you've not seen the live games.


MOAR!

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[Uncle Mort]

I have a tenner on Russia to win and a tenner on Poland to win. Both favourites and both are are losing with five minutes to go.

:cry:

[SoundofSilence]

Haven't watched the game, but Russia LOL:cheesy:;D

Certainly didn't expect that... It's a pity though, they are great to watch and play good football.

[thehammer]

Ugh, not Greece. They are so boring.

[davai]

Edgy frustrating game but England avoid Spain in the quarter final :cheesy: but will we just lose to them in the final? :cry:

And before anyone says that goal was over the line, their player was offside first dammit!

Quarter Finals

Czech Republic v Portugal
Germany v Greece
Spain v France
England v Italy

[thehammer]

He was offside, but that was still a huge fail on the goal line official's part. That's what he's there for, and he blew it.

[davai]

He was offside, but that was still a huge fail on the goal line official's part. That's what he's there for, and he blew it.

I know they're a fucking joke aren't they? I swear I heard earlier that they haven't actually made a decision yet. Or they have but they've been overruled anyway. Complete waste of time.

[thehammer]

Yeah. They either need to implement real goal line technology or just completely abandon it. Hopefully the former.

And Zlatan's goal was magical.

[Zodd]

haha, fucking gay. On the UEFA website they even called it a goal, but that was later changed. Also gay how the UEFA controls what is being shown on tv regarding ref decisions, fireworks etc. And the sponsor thingy with the guy who showed his underwear, making a big deal out of it and now the company whoes name is on the underwear just gets even more promotion. While they have fucking Mc'Donalds as head sponsor, haha, Mc'Donalds at a sportevent. And just gay that they hold it in 3rd world countries and Quatar and stuff. Quatar....I think it's normally 50 degrees Celcius there, not even in the summer, expect the players to gas after 20 minutes.

[davai]

And Zlatan's goal was magical.

It was. But he's still an IbrahimoBitch.

haha, fucking gay. On the UEFA website they even called it a goal, but that was later changed. Also gay how the UEFA controls what is being shown on tv regarding ref decisions, fireworks etc. And the sponsor thingy with the guy who showed his underwear, making a big deal out of it and now the company whoes name is on the underwear just gets even more promotion. While they have fucking Mc'Donalds as head sponsor, haha, Mc'Donalds at a sportevent. And just gay that they hold it in 3rd world countries and Quatar and stuff. Quatar....I think it's normally 50 degrees Celcius there, not even in the summer, expect the players to gas after 20 minutes.

It's obvious that UEFA and FIFA are corrupt and outdated organizations. The last elections and world cup voting scandals proved that, not to mention the whole goal line tech fiasco. But what to do? It already seeems like some of the top club sides want to break away to form a super league and i think the national FAs of each country should follow suit. FIFA are a joke and have lost all legitimacy as far as i'm concerned. They're now just a bunch of conservative old men that cling to power because they somehow can and everyone follows their lead. Football needs a revolution and countries need to work together on this to set up some rival organization. It's been done in other sports and even in some football leagues so it's definitely not impossible.

---

Anyway, the Germany/Greece quarter final is going to be interesting not just for football reasons.

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Supporting the Greeks all the way on that one. Ultra defensive anti-football at the ready!

[Zodd]

That Samaras was insane. He owned everybody one the field, just ran trough them and after 5 meters they were already 2 meters behind him. He did the same trick over and over, you know, let the ball pass on the right side of his opponent and run passed their left side. You'd think that if you practised soccer your whole life, the last half of your life paid millions for it, the 20th time he does that trick on you, you'd be able to do it a little better. Or if you can't even do that, tell the other defender who also gets past like an infant, to cover your ass instead of giving him the ability to pass you with that trick and have 15 meters of free space to do as he pleases.

I find it doubtfull that works on even a mediocre defender. You don't see it used that much, and even lesser with such a succes rate.

[thehammer]

Germany vs. Greece (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)


Please win, Germany.

[davai]

Germany vs. Greece (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)

Please win, Germany.

Awesome sketch. Of course i think Germany will win but I don't want them to. If England beat Italy then they play the winners of this match, much easier to play Greece than a German side with Ozil, Muller, Gomez and the rest. They destroyed us in South Africa. But then if the Greeks do somehow win then who's to say they're easier. Dissapointed in the Czechs last night. I fear Greece going down the same path, a lack of attacking options so playing to defend a game and then leaving it too late to attack. Trouble is when Greece do open up, the Germans will take them apart like soft cheese.

[peppersasen]

what determines how introverted/extroverted a team is? how defensive they are?

[davai]

what determines how introverted/extroverted a team is? how defensive they are?

Sort of. Obviously not an exact science this - just a bit of fun really - some teams could've shared a type so i've divided all 16 as equally as i could. Generally though I've given a team an E when they're mainly focused around attack or have a stronger attack than their defense. Sometimes their playing style also warranted an E over I.

An example of which - the SFPs Portugal and Spain. Spain get the I because they're very patient in their build up, and Portugal's attack is much stronger than their defence. The ISFP also suits Spain because of their creativity and that type is known for being artists (wouldn't surprise me to find out a few of the top Spanish players were that type also).

Greece for instance, I gave them INTJ because of their defensive strategy which we'll probably see against the Germans later tonight. That tactic was so efficient and effective it enabled them to win Euro 2004. They might be accused of being boring but if gets the job done i don't really think they care what other people think of them.

A team that struggles with creativity were designated as SJ - such as England being ESTJ - but this also suits their style of play too as their strengths are based around being physically superior, and playing a more direct game with less of the fancier stuff that other sides are capable of.

The F/T is obviously difficult, but i've tried to go for the more physical and aggressive teams with T and the more flashy less compromising teams with F.

The J/P even more difficult so i guess i tried to tie that in with the type as a whole to make a choice.

[SoundofSilence]

Michalis Sifakis: do yourself a favor and get a different job..:dozey:

[thehammer]

England gonna England. The better side won, though, despite the fact that shootouts suck. Germany is going to smash Italy, with or without Schweinsteiger.

[davai]

:tears:

But they deserve it. Can't argue. If you can't retain possession or create anything for 4/5s of the game or more then you don't deserve to win. Justice I guess. Rough though. Never liked penalties

[SoundofSilence]

Roy Hodgson is a huge failure. Why bring Carroll on the field, while you're playing counter football? Doesn't make any sense at all.

MOTM = Pirlo: He was great. How he can pass the ball over 60 meters witch such accuracy.. And then the panenka!

Buffon and Diamanti played really good too.

EDIT: I almost forgot to mention Marchisio's magnificent pass to Nocerino just before full time. He didn't play all that well, but he showed his class with this pass. :surprised:

[davai]

Roy Hodgson is a huge failure. Why bring Carroll on the field, while you're playing counter football? Doesn't make any sense at all.


Yeah i thought Defoe should've came on. He's quick and can run behind their defence. I thought Carroll was pretty ineffective. Bit harsh to call Hodgson a complete failure though. I think he did ok with what he had to work with. I doubt any manager in the world could've done too much more, even Mourinho.


MOTM = Pirlo: He was great. How he can pass the ball over 60 meters witch such accuracy.. And then the panenka!


Can't argue with that. Pirlo is awesome. But that penalty...haha, so cool but in a way so easy. It's like when you play FIFA on a console and just tap it down the middle. 9 times out of 10 your opponent is expecting it to go one way or the other. Frustrating when you could've just held your ground and made an easy save.

---

Semi Finals

Portugal v Spain
Germany v Italy

So it's all shaping up for the final that i guess everyone wants, Germany v Spain. The other two surely haven't got a hope have they?

[Nazareth]

I think the Final will be Spain vs Germany too, but this time Germany will take it, I think.

[SoundofSilence]

Yeah i thought Defoe should've came on. He's quick and can run behind their defence. I thought Carroll was pretty ineffective. Bit harsh to call Hodgson a complete failure though. I think he did ok with what he had to work with. I doubt any manager in the world could've done too much more, even Mourinho.

Ok, a 'total failure' is a bit too much, but it was such a stupid decision. I agree that they couldn't do much better, but the counters they produced were pretty poor. I expected a bit more.. There were no automatisms, no nothing.

Can't argue with that. Pirlo is awesome. But that penalty...haha, so cool but in a way so easy. It's like when you play FIFA on a console and just tap it down the middle. 9 times out of 10 your opponent is expecting it to go one way or the other. Frustrating when you could've just held your ground and made an easy save.

So recognizable.. (although I play it on pc)

I think the Final will be Spain vs Germany too, but this time Germany will take it, I think.

Germany could win from Spain over 1 game, but Spain still have the best odds.

[Zodd]

The Irish fans are probably the best thing about soccer. They should've held UFC 147 in Ireland, they would've gone crazy for The Axe Murderer.

[davai]

The Irish fans are probably the best thing about soccer.

I think the singing of Fields of Athenry (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) has to be up there as one of the best moments of the tournament, along with this from the same game...

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[SoundofSilence]

What a great night! Bert van Marwijk stopped as coach and Spain are through to the final! :D

[Zodd]

I actually think he kind of stabbed us in the back. While I actually felt very comfortable with him after the WC. Because he looked smart and down to earth. I know this is just jumping bandwagons, but still. I think he went for personal glory because he already was a bit controversial with the WC and now he wanted to show that he is unreachable for us normal people. What other reason can you come up with to make the decisions he made? It seemed so hard to achieve and perfectionistic and fantasy, though before the match against Denmark it was just "ah, Bert is just so smart, what do I know about soccer. We'll probably win." I think that he knew all along his strategy wasn't the best way to go, or at least at a point before Portugal that he knew it, but there wasn't a way to turn back, he just needed to keep going. Now he can just blame it on the players. So I'm very much looking forward to his thoughts about why he choose to make the decisions he made, but till then I'm quite sure it was just self-glory. He just wanted to come over as a reinventor of the game.

Even if Van Marwijk would continue and make results, I wouldn't feel good about it, just that it is luck. And even less likely, if he changes his whole attitude I still think it would be a wrong choice from the KNVB to allow a coach to backstab the whole country and not be hanged. REBBLE REBBLE REBBLE!! Dey tuk ur jops!

Who do you think should become the new coach, SoundofSilence? I think all the Dutch coaches come over as being stuck inside their own head. Maybe not Advocaat and Gullit. I don't know them very well, but I think I'd favor Gullit because he has status and has better looks, though with his wife cheating on him they might ridicule him and not take him seriously. Advocaat doesn't have status anymore and I he needs to compensate by manipulating players. Soccer has become bigger and times just have changed, and so have the ego's, not that the ego's are bigger maybe, but harder to control, or more difficult, and the traditional manipulating approach doesn't work anymore, so maybe you need a younger, less traditional coach. Johan Cruijff could work, but it would be a risk since he's so....Cruijff. I know this is even less likely but........Roberto Di Matteo... yes I said it. Only downside is he isn't Dutch, which kinda is a really big downside, in that they pick him I mean. Maybe that once his is coach it wouldn't be such a trouble since the best players in the team serve foreign coaches. Don't know how much players in the team will come from foreign clubs, though.

[SoundofSilence]

Louis van Gaal! I'll elaborate later; don't have much time atm..

EDIT: I'll keep it short:

Van Marwijk was (and is) very conservative, so he didn't want to change the starting XI and playing style, even though everybody could see that it would go wrong (the friendly games were a good indicator, except the one versus Northern-Ireland).
He reached the WC final, but the playing style was such a disgrace for Dutch football (karate kicks and whatnot..).

I don't really care that much about who is going to be appointed as coach, as long as he insists on playing traditional Dutch football (4-3-3 formation with traditional wingers)... A lack of decent defenders shouldn't be compensated by putting more defensive players in the team, but by playing attacking football, so you wouldn't depend on your defenders so much.
Frank de Boer would be the ideal coach for me, but he'll be staying at AFC Ajax..

This should be the midfield and attack:

Robben - Huntelaar - Narsingh

Van der Vaart - De Jong - Sneijder

Looking forward to the game tonight :)

[davai]

No RVP in attack SoS? Is it that you don't rate him very highly or that he wouldn't fit into that system? I thought he was one of your better players but i may be biased because i see him playing every week for Arsenal.

Portugal were a bit unlucky last night. If Ronaldo had a good game they would've won it, except he ballooned every shot he had high and wide. And you just knew Alves was gonna miss that pen. when he came back for it the second time.

[SoundofSilence]

No RVP in attack SoS? Is it that you don't rate him very highly or that he wouldn't fit into that system? I thought he was one of your better players but i may be biased because i see him playing every week for Arsenal.

I've seen him play a couple of games at Arsenal and he was great, but somehow he's not as successful at 'Oranje'. It might be because Van Marwijk usually plays with a left-footed player at the right side and vice versa, so he doesn't get many crosses.
He would definitely fit into this 4-3-3 system (in theory), but I'm not sure if it will pay off. Van Persie is a (much) better footballer overall, but Huntelaar has proven to be a guarantee for goals. If Van Persie manages to score and play well in this system, then he should definitely be in the starting XI instead of KJH.


Portugal were a bit unlucky last night. If Ronaldo had a good game they would've won it, except he ballooned every shot he had high and wide. And you just knew Alves was gonna miss that pen. when he came back for it the second time.

They both didn't deserve to win. That's all I have to say..
I don't agree on Alves' penalty. If his shot was just under the crossbar, it would have been a terrific penalty. We're talking about centimeters here..

[davai]

They both didn't deserve to win. That's all I have to say..
I don't agree on Alves' penalty. If his shot was just under the crossbar, it would have been a terrific penalty. We're talking about centimeters here..

Haha. Well I think Portugal definitely edged it in the first half. They actually took the game to them which was good to see. Not sure if that was just the Spanish being disorganised and sluggish but they really went for it with some good play. Reminded me of England the other night, who for the first 20 minutes were actually playing football! And then i don't know what happened, it was almost like it shocked them or something so they did the usual and retreated steadily into their own half and let Italy have possession. I dunno...maybe it was just the Italians getting into the game more like Spain did last night so it seems like the opposition is better than it actually is. But for a few moments against Italy, i was thinking that maybe, just maybe, England would make up for all the disappointments over the years since I started following them at Italia '90 when i was a naive young boy. But nope, turned out i was as naive as ever. :stare:

[SoundofSilence]

Haha. Well I think Portugal definitely edged it in the first half. They actually took the game to them which was good to see. Not sure if that was just the Spanish being disorganised and sluggish but they really went for it with some good play. Reminded me of England the other night, who for the first 20 minutes were actually playing football! And then i don't know what happened, it was almost like it shocked them or something so they did the usual and retreated steadily into their own half and let Italy have possession. I dunno...maybe it was just the Italians getting into the game more like Spain did last night so it seems like the opposition is better than it actually is. But for a few moments against Italy, i was thinking that maybe, just maybe, England would make up for all the disappointments over the years since I started following them at Italia '90 when i was a naive young boy. But nope, turned out i was as naive as ever. :stare:

They tried to pressure Spain in the first half, but they couldn't maintain that tactic the whole match, due to Spain showing some good combination play. Somehow Del Bosque thought it would be a good idea to let Negredo play. You have Negredo, (Pedro), Fabregas, Llorente and Torres for the striker position and you choose Negredo? Lol.

The problem of England is that they barely have a decent playmaker. Gerrard was sort of a playmaker, but you need more players who are passers. Rooney is normally pretty good at that, but he was not in form and lacked match rhythm. Except for those two the midfield mostly consists of hard workers like Parker, Milner, etc..
That, and they were trying to play counter-football, but Hodgson messed it up by bringing on Carroll (vs Italy). The attack and defense is pretty good though.

[Zodd]

That Terry guy saved England quite a couple of times by sticking his leg between some shots.

[davai]

The problem of England is that they barely have a decent playmaker. Gerrard was sort of a playmaker, but you need more players who are passers. Rooney is normally pretty good at that, but he was not in form and lacked match rhythm. Except for those two the midfield mostly consists of hard workers like Parker, Milner, etc..


That Terry guy saved England quite a couple of times by sticking his leg between some shots.

Terry's ok, average, decent in the air. But he's terrible if you know how to expose his weaknesses like Italy did, by constantly putting balls over the top of him. Everyone knows he's slow as hell.

SoS: You're right, but i think the problems go deeper than missing a decent player or 2. It's the whole playing philosophy we have from childhood to adult which is out of touch, not to mention the lack of resources we put into home grown players. Yes the EPL is probably the most exciting league in the world with many of the top players, but it comes at a big sacrifice when you neglect football at grass roots level. Money is also an issue which the German and French leagues are trying to resolve by capping wages and transfers. It means their leagues aren't as good and they're all pretty much selling clubs, but at least it allows them to develop more of their own players as opposed to having teams made up of expensive foreign imports.

[SoundofSilence]

SoS: You're right, but i think the problems go deeper than missing a decent player or 2. It's the whole playing philosophy we have from childhood to adult which is out of touch, not to mention the lack of resources we put into home grown players. Yes the EPL is probably the most exciting league in the world with many of the top players, but it comes at a big sacrifice when you neglect football at grass roots level. Money is also an issue which the German and French leagues are trying to resolve by capping wages and transfers. It means their leagues aren't as good and they're all pretty much selling clubs, but at least it allows them to develop more of their own players as opposed to having teams made up of expensive foreign imports.

Totally agree on that. Most EPL clubs just spend big money on players from other countries, but ignore the youth. Clubs like Chelsea and Manchester City invest some money in the youth, but they barely or never give them chances to become valuable players.

Eredivisie clubs have the same problem (probably to a greater extent) as French and German clubs. They can't compete with the big money clubs, so they focus on youth and give them an actual chance. AFC Ajax, for example, have been doing that more and more in the last couple of years and it's paying off considering that 'Young Ajax' almost won the NextGen series and the fact that more youth players are given a chance to play in the first team. They don't want players to come there for earning lots of money, but for football itself.

I really hope UEFA is going to make some strict rules regarding 'financial fair play'. It really messes up football. :(

[davai]

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Well there goes my prediction. Great game Italy.

Euro 2012 Final

Spain v Italy

[SoundofSilence]

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Well there goes my prediction. Great game Italy.

Euro 2012 Final

Spain v Italy

Haha, SUPERMARIO! ;D Well deserved win. They were pretty efficient, except later on in the match, they should've made the 3-0.
This is going to be an interesting final. :nice:

[thehammer]

Really disappointed in ze Germans. They were by far the best team of the tournament until today. Plus I just don't like Italy and I never have, although at least they don't bunker down and play negative all game like they used to.

I just hope we don't see another 0-0 game go to penalties, and it is entirely possible.

[Zodd]

Haha, Balotelli acted like Turk in Scrubs: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

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---------- Post added 06-29-2012 at 01:30 AM ----------

And why actually can't you take off your shirt after a goal? I always find it interesting what physique ahtletes have and those shirts and pants are way to loose.

---------- Post added 06-29-2012 at 01:31 AM ----------

And it's also better to watch what they are doing if they don't wear clothes. I hate that with gi's.

[alt lit]

They were by far the best team of the tournament until today.
I missed the game today, but in the games I did see, Germany never quite gelled in this tournament like they did for most of the 2010 World Cup. At least that was my impression.

I'll have to go for Italy against Spain.

[Nostalgia]

And why actually can't you take off your shirt after a goal? I always find it interesting what physique ahtletes have and those shirts and pants are way to loose.




to prevent hooliganism and racism....DUH! we always need to keep the shirt on, otherwise we are nothing better than bunch of dirty monkeys just like those b.....shit, my shirt is off.....fuck....

[thehammer]

Okay, Spain, you can stop dominating the world now.

[alt lit]

Okay, Spain, you can stop dominating the world now.

Yeah, yet again, I've seen enough. Can't believe Germany lost in the semis... again.

[zibber]

Fiesta time for my homeboys in Madrid and Barcelona.

[vampyroteuthis]

Beautiful.

[Artio]

Finland for the win!
:stare:

[davai]

I was hoping for more from Italy but Spain were just too good. Can't even blame it on Motta getting injured as they'd already lost it really.

Are Spain the best team ever to play? They must be top 3 or 5 at least, they could probably beat Barcelona assuming we could duplicate players. Brazil '70? ...I think even they'd struggle.

Anyway, good tournament, good show.

---------- Post added 07-02-2012 at 12:32 AM ----------

I spose time for some funny stuff. Post more if you find em.

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[davai]

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---------- Post added 07-02-2012 at 12:49 AM ----------

I remember this dude. Got a laugh from the whole pub including all the French people there.

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[davai]

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---------- Post added 07-02-2012 at 01:02 AM ----------

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[davai]

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[thehammer]

Similar to the above:

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[Nostalgia]

does this mean Spain will require less bailout money now or more (because of the additional cost for the ensuing celebration)? I am confused...

[deconspire]

The one with the hard hat and jackhammer makes me fucking lol.

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[OwenF]

I was for the Dutch, then the English, then the Germans, then the Italians. Am I a curse?

[SoundofSilence]

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