Who is the better person?

[Jakalwarrior]

The drug dealer that sells pot to a kid..
Vs
The clerk at Mc Donalds to sells them a Big Mac?

Bonus question, would the kid have a better life as a jobless pot head or as an obese person with a job dying of high blood pressure and other weight related health problems?

[Karamazov]

I don't think any one person is "better" than the other. Both individuals giving the product are doing so for their own personal benefit, while the receivers are purchasing it on their own volition.

Weed has no lethal properties, when used habitually in the long-term; compared to a Big Mac, which can produce health issues when not careful of ones diet. The person getting the burger though, is not likely to be giving this much thought.

As for the bonus, the two scenarios still have that same dynamic. This of course, is just looking at the big picture and not taking into account their personal lives.

[Saint]

I feel you're taking our relationship too fast, Jackalwarrior. First we're supposed to have a large argument about [crap, imo] phrases like "better person."


As for your bonus question, you'll have to copy and paste this person and ask them both which is happier. If it's about their happiness - assuming thats your "better life" - then it's for them to decide.

[Jakalwarrior]

I wasnt implying any answer or trying to use the socratic method ;) I just bought lunch and McDonalds and then drove through a ghetto on the way back to my job. Now that im full of McChicken and south western salad I started pondering.

[Saint]

Fair enough, and it's a legitimate thing to ponder, but it's very hard to answer without knowing what you mean by better person. And it's hard to weigh people by a single thing they do.

Does the drug dealer also put in 40 hours of community service a week, voluntarily?

Does the burger flipper also design earthquake-proof buildings that save thousands of lives? (or will he in the future, once burger flipping pays for the college he's currently in)

[AutisticCuckoo]

Is this a trick question, or is it merely extremely offensive?

[Jakalwarrior]

Fair enough, and it's a legitimate thing to ponder, but it's very hard to answer without knowing what you mean by better person. And it's hard to weigh people by a single thing they do.

Does the drug dealer also put in 40 hours of community service a week, voluntarily?

Does the burger flipper also design earthquake-proof buildings that save thousands of lives? (or will he in the future, once burger flipping pays for the college he's currently in)

Basing it on their current employment only. I was going on the premise that most people consider drug dealers, especially those that sell to children, to be bad people when viewing them within the narrow scope of their job.



Is this a trick question, or is it merely extremely offensive?

I am known for both, but I'm not quite sure yet on this one.

[Danisty]

Basing it on their current employment only. I was going on the premise that most people consider drug dealers, especially those that sell to children, to be bad people when viewing them within the narrow scope of their job.Probably because drug dealing is connected to other criminal activity.

As for your bonus question, the obese person with a job is in a better situation overall. They might be dying, but they're making money to support themselves and probably have access to health insurance.

[blueback]

The question is meaningless without a consistent moral framework within which to define "good."

Since it's safe to assume that everyone who reads the question will have a different set of assumptions about morality we cannot have a meaningful discussion; at least not in the sense of reaching a conclusion. The best we could hope to do would be to vote on it and allow the majority to decide.

[Jakalwarrior]

I dunno, I think I would be happier as the pot head. Especially since that is a choice you can walk out of with no long term effects while being fat means youve already damaged your internal circulatory system and live in a hindered body. It is probably a lot easier to quit pot than it is to lose weight. That is assuming the person doesn't move on to other drugs, but a lot of pot heads will go off on you if you call them druggies as they dont see pot as anything bad but often do have an negative view of the other addictive / damaging drugs.

*continues pondering*


The question is meaningless without a consistent moral framework within which to define "good."

The inconsistency of the societal norms and generally accepted moral framework is exactly what I was trying to bring into question.

[Cicatrix]

Cool question. I took it to mean that both people (the dealer and the clerk) were selling something that could potentially harm the purchaser yet one was perfectly legal and the other was not.

[blueback]

The inconsistency of the societal norms and generally accepted moral framework is exactly what I was trying to bring into question.

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[Synamon]

How did that paper do anyway? Was that the final version?

...one was perfectly legal and the other was not.
Legal vs. illegal are just society's attempt to legislate morality.

[blueback]

Well enough. I was taking a 3 week philosophy class and it wasn't enough time to realize my teacher liked Socrates. I wrote a 2 page paper claiming that Socrates was overrated. I think I had a pretty good reason, but he thought that I was "presupposing" and gave me a crap grade. After more assignments I dropped from the first in the class to the bottom third. That was the last paper in the class and I never bothered to ask what he thought.

I've developed the idea since then but it hasn't changed, I've just gotten better at explaining it.

[Deepdelver]

I see them as the same. Neither is better off. The underlying issue is the addictive trait. One is addicted to food and the other to a drug.

[blueback]

What's wrong with addiction?

[Tyrant Soup]

It's the parents' responsibility to protect the kids. So the drug dealer is no worse than the blubber flipper. Both are just good capitalists in that respect.

[sriv]

I see them as the same. Neither is better off. The underlying issue is the addictive trait. One is addicted to food and the other to a drug.
Then the question is --- To which is one more likely to get addicted?

What's wrong with addiction?
Health issues.

[Jakalwarrior]

Then the question is --- To which is one more likely to get addicted?



I have no statistics to back it up but I have seen a lot more people who cant stop eating unhealthy food than people who cant stop smoking pot. I think you can argue that McDonalds consumption has much worse health effects than pot though.

[Synamon]

I have no statistics to back it up...

I quit reading at that point.

How does it make any sense to compare the action of eating which we need to do to survive, and smoking pot which is not needed for survival? Or comparing the illegal act of selling drugs with the legal selling of burgers? The whole discussion is apples and oranges.

[jadefalcon]

the natural answer is the guy selling pot- but if I were to say both, wouldn't that be putting an ordinary person who needs the money on the level of the man selling pot? I think there are a few hidden messages here, one that both are killing off people, and two both guys are trying to make it through this world.


This world sucks, doesnt it. You could also say that the drugs are on par with the Mcdonalds food. I would call both bad, but the Mcdonalds food can't be as bad as drugs... wait there is stuff in there to bring people back... yep they are on par.

[Jakalwarrior]

I quit reading at that point.

How does it make any sense to compare the action of eating which we need to do to survive, and smoking pot which is not needed for survival? Or comparing the illegal act of selling drugs with the legal selling of burgers? The whole discussion is apples and oranges.

They act on some dysfunctional pleasure we get from eating certain substances which harm us! Very often the meals have far more of those substances in one helping than we are advised to consume in 24 hours. They were tailor made to be the most appealing to our sense of taste and smell with zero thought given to health or nutrition. You call them food? If that classifies as food then pot smoke classifies as air we need to breathe. How many people a year die of pot smoking? How many die from designer "food"?

Society does see it as apples to oranges, I am asking why? Why "protect" us from one substance while marketing the other more dangerous one to children with a clown and free toys?

[sriv]

I have no statistics to back it up but I have seen a lot more people who cant stop eating unhealthy food than people who cant stop smoking pot. I think you can argue that McDonalds consumption has much worse health effects than pot though.
Possibly. Then there are the connotations of pot smoking - chance of advancing to more powerful drugs and mixing with the wrong crowd.

Can regular fast food eaters really be classified as addicts though?
Do they suffer withdrawal stages when they stop?

The only thing I found that is close is compulsive overeating (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) which can be any pleasurable food item.

[bricklayer]

Call me crazy but I think the drug dealer is the worse person. He is, after all, the only person breaking the law.

[Tyrant Soup]

Call me crazy but I think the drug dealer is the worse person. He is, after all, the only person breaking the law.

Ok. U r crazy. ;)

Is breaking the law necessarily bad? If so, then people like Nelson Mandela would be considered bad for breaking discriminatory laws.

[bricklayer]

Ok. U r crazy. ;)

Is breaking the law necessarily bad? If so, then people like Nelson Mandela would be considered bad for breaking discriminatory laws.

No, but I would only break the law if you truly believe it's the noble thing to do. As far as the hamburgers go, I believe the morbidly obese person is to blame for their weight problem. I see no reason why other semi-healthy Americans can't indulge in a McWhatever every now and then.

[Jakalwarrior]

No, but I would only break the law if you truly believe it's the noble thing to do. As far as the hamburgers go, I believe the morbidly obese person is to blame for their weight problem. I see no reason why other semi-healthy Americans can't indulge in a McWhatever every now and then.

Apply that the other direction too. If somone choses to smoke pot all the time then that is their own fault.

As for the law? Personally, I break the low every time I get in a vehicle. 60mph on a 4 by 4 lane interstate with low traffic? hah! The other drivers would all flip me off for holding up traffic as they pass by.

[Avid]

Not meaning to come off as a twat but....not all laws are meant to protect they are just a way of controlling a means to an end. Lets say my grandmother had been open to the idea of even touching weed...she had a terminal illness and was in pain. Is it better for her to get weed grown from outside or something or pay $500 for a medicine that has the same effect?

[demaugustus]

The drug dealer that sells pot to a kid..
Vs
The clerk at Mc Donalds to sells them a Big Mac?

Bonus question, would the kid have a better life as a jobless pot head or as an obese person with a job dying of high blood pressure and other weight related health problems?

They are about the same to me. The person(s) who is "worse" is the parent/gardian and/or community who would allow these people in the neighborhood.

[bricklayer]

Apply that the other direction too. If somone choses to smoke pot all the time then that is their own fault.

As for the law? Personally, I break the low every time I get in a vehicle. 60mph on a 4 by 4 lane interstate with low traffic? hah! The other drivers would all flip me off for holding up traffic as they pass by.

Oh yeah, you're right. Let's make hamburgers illegal now!

Sure it's their fault too, but of course there is a physical addiction involved there. Most pot smokers do not do so "just every now and then," or they at least don't end up that way. However, a hamburger is much less harmful.

[Minxz]

While a McDonald hamburger is not the ideal food source it does contain some nutrition.. Calories to fuel your body and the protein needed for the building and repair of body tissues. An occasional fast food meal is not harmful.

What good comes from marijuana? Beyond the fact that seller and buyer are breaking the law Marijuana fills no need just a desire for an altered state and at the very least pulling any form of smoke into your lungs on a regular basis is not healthy and that is avoiding the debate on other long term effects of marijuana use.

[Jakalwarrior]

Let me hit an angle no one seems to be considering ;) you dont have to smoke pot. You can eat it. Then what damage does it do? my research (was trying to make a friend stop) led me to believe the only down side is that it blocks your ability to learn while you are using it. If you use it a whole lot for a long time you start losing your ability to learn through a sort of atrophy. I still wont touch the stuff since learning is my thing, but I bought him a bong to cool the smoke and avoid cooking his lungs.

If the stuff is eaten though, isn't it the same as alcohol except with less side effects, less chance of making you mean, no chance of overdose, and far fewer health concerns? Heck, feed people tofu burgers with a bit of marijuana in em :P

[blueback]

The goon squad will be crashing through your windows any second now. . .questioning the country's policies during a war (on drugs). That pretty much makes you a traitor.

[Avid]

This "War on drugs" is dumb anyway where it concerns that one. Only difference is they are imprisoning our own people as opposed to killing people overseas. Just from a purely balanced outlook if alchohol and cig's are legal I don't see why pot isn't (not that I care to use any of those things it is just a matter of more personal freedoms).

[bricklayer]

I don't care what you do with pot. As long as you own it you are breaking the law.