Wonder

[PHS Philip]

We've had so many threads here arguing religion back and forth (and getting no where), so I thought I would post something sort of in the same vein, but from a different angle.

When I first started learning about astronomy (not "sun then mercury then venus...then pluto astronomy, but astronomy of the universe at large), at first I really just couldn't wrap my mind around it (I still can't, really, but I'm closer). I couldn't understand how something could be as huge as a nebula, much less a galaxy. I couldn't imagine the power driving the core of a star. I couldn't imagine the might of a black hole.

Slowly, though, I started to understand them a little better, one at a time. In this process were some of the most incredible moments of my life, up to now. Grasping the monumental beauty of a nebula, for me, was simply incredible. That sort of thing is why I fell in love with science. The workings of a cell, the might at the heart of a star, the evolution of something as incredible as the flight of a bird...these are truly incredible beyond imagining. To grasp even a tiny fraction of the cosmos is one of the most awe inspiring experiences there is, I think.

This sort of thing is why I have really never even understood the question "but where do you find meaning in life?" I really do feel bad for those who ask this question, because it makes me think that they've never had the chance to experience this. It's not just an atheist experience, it's not just a theist experience, maybe it's not even just a human experience, but however large the group of those who have the ability to experience this, it is absolutely amazing.

It's always fascinating to me to see how other people have felt this same sort of thing, so I figured I'd ask: when or how do you feel this sort of thing? Math? Astronomy? Biology? History? Physics? or something else entirely?

[LionsPride]

Biology for me. The evolution of creatures and their purpose, the healing powers of our bodies... I think of the complexity of building something as complex as a human from scratch scientifically and then reflect how much better nature does it from just a couple of gametes.

I also like to reflect on the fact that water expands when it solidifies so that ice floats in water. If it didn't the water system we know today could not exist. I wonder how different it could be.

[Karamazov]

Biology for me. The evolution of creatures and their purpose, the healing powers of our bodies... I think of the complexity of building something as complex as a human from scratch scientifically and then reflect how much better nature does it from just a couple of gametes.

Same here. There's is much akin to beauty as there is to ugliness in our ecosystem. Watching the Genius of Darwin, I was disgusted at how brutal nature can be (like Darwin was) when I saw an ant sting another insect in various places, rendering it paralyzed but still able to feel as it's insides are sucked out methodically by the ant. Its beautiful though, as has been said, when thinking about how utterly random and chaotic human birth is. Out of all the millions of sperm; to be able to create something so specific; it's quite amazing.

For many though, the nullification of some master plan or end game to all of this is depressing for many who subscribe to an organized religion's conception of life and purpose.

[Josh]

Imho, i think the very nature of religion/spirituality/faith makes it intrinsically anti-science, and i seriously doubt the answer would be found in any technical field. After all science is solely concerned with the how, whereas religion is concerned with the why. These are two fundamentally different questions and i don't think they can coincide.

If anything it is a question of philosophy and sociology, though the only answers one would get are simply best guesses, guesses that every individual can just as easily make themselves. If my God is the purple spaghetti monster i am no more right or wrong than anyone else. I firmly believe that if there is, in fact, a God, or higher power, or whatever one chooses to call it, it is by it's very essence something incomprehensible and far beyond the understanding of any human mind. Just my 2 cents.

Oh and phillip if you think that aspect of the universe is awe inspiring, go look up the big rip theory, or i'd be happy to give you a crash course based off my own limited knowledge if you ask. It's pretty fascinating.

Finally on a side note it's really great to be able to post this kind of thing on this forum knowing that people will actually understand. Cheers everyone.

[Monte314]

...when or how do you feel this sort of thing? Math? Astronomy? Biology? History? Physics? or something else entirely?

I know this feeling. I don't see it in mathematics all that much, where infinity is commonplace. I teach chemistry and physics, some history (no biology), and I don't see it here so much either.

I do experience this feeling of wonder when I'm out with my telescope... but only when I'm alone.

More and more, I experience wonder when I observe people. Seems strange I suppose, but more and more I see all these amazing things in our universe as a mere backdrop for God's action in human lives.

[Mozzes]

I know this feeling. I don't see it in mathematics all that much, where infinity is commonplace. I teach chemistry and physics, some history (no biology), and I don't see it here so much either.

I do experience this feeling of wonder when I'm out with my telescope... but only when I'm alone.

More and more, I experience wonder when I observe people. Seems strange I suppose, but more and more I see all these amazing things in our universe as a mere backdrop for God's action in human lives.

I understand you completely. I don't know if human stupidity is infinite but it certainly seems to be going in that direction. :cheesy:

[OmegaPsi]

2 things inspire me to almost the point of crying.

1: Physics - I mean, it is just absolutely amazing how everything works. Just stunning. I mean I know this sounds a bit, rough, on why it amazes me but just...wow.

2. It always amazed me that the entirety of the store of human knowledge is because of people pursuing things they like to do. Great example: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[Synamon]

I can get that feeling of wonder just from observing nature. The power of the ocean, the majesty of the mountains, snowflakes falling, hummingbirds hovering. Even more fascinating is learning about landslides caused by volcanic eruptions in Hawaii creating huge tsunamis hundreds of years ago or the way the continents are shifting or how animals have adapted and evolved. The science that is shaping the world around us gives me perspective and grounds me.

[Fridays Child]

This is a great question, Philip; thanks for asking it.

When patterns emerge, I feel that sense of wonder. It is the connectedness that awes me. All the myriad links between we humans, the world we live in and the space we have yet to touch. The scale is unfathomable; and yet that connectedness means that I am part of something greater than myself, which is also part of me.

I believe I was about 5 when I first camped out in the open overnight. I couldn't understand how anyone could sleep with something so incredible as the stars to watch and think about, and I can re-live that night clearly even now and feel the rush.

I still feel that way, whether I am looking at stars, nature, things we create or the workings of the human mind. There is the unexpected, but never the random. The connections are there, try as I might have done to deny them at one time. There is meaning in all things, and yes, I believe also a purpose. This meaning doesn't need our validation: it calmly exists whether we acknowledge it or not, resist it or embrace it. But when we do open ourselves to being part of an immense pattern the beauty is unescapable.

[cal]

when or how do you feel this sort of thing? Math? Astronomy? Biology? History? Physics? or something else entirely?

I find it in concepts - defining concepts here as being the 'DNA' of ideas - that really move things forward.

To see the creation of a new concept, or a change in concepts being used, bring about:

great new ways of solving problems; great new products and services; great new discoveries in the sciences, technology; great new ways of developing human potential; great new ways of bringing structure/organization to a mess; great new ways of looking at things; etc.

That's what really does it for me.

[TheLastMohican]

It's always fascinating to me to see how other people have felt this same sort of thing, so I figured I'd ask: when or how do you feel this sort of thing? Math? Astronomy? Biology? History? Physics? or something else entirely?

I certainly know this feeling, and I find the most fascination in astronomy and biology.
Things like this (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) and this (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) have the effect you describe. This (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) is pretty good, too.





TheLastMohican added to this post, 18 minutes and 13 seconds later...

You would.

It was only a matter of time, my friend.

[Double Victory]

I guess it would be anthropology for me. I love trying to figure people out, and I'm usually surprised by how deep some people go. People are so different, and it amazes me how people get to where they are in life. When people make drastic changes, and why they make drastic changes. People who would gives their lives to protect something that they love, and people that would kill to get what they want.

Beyond the social part of that, I am utterly fascinated by the mechanics of a human. I really don't know that much about biology, or anything of the sort, but I always wonder about people being born with different maximum capacities for knowledge. Autism and savants are very interesting. And then I get interested in animals, and how intelligent certain animals are, and it makes me wonder that were some animals given the chance to evolve their brains, would they be as intelligent as humans? And if that's the case, does that means that our intelligence is only because of the complexity of our brain, and nothing more?

The universe is something else that I find awesome, because of the aforementioned ideas of it's utter size. To me, its size indicates that there are an incredibly large number of intelligent lifeforms out there besides us, and that's something that comes to mind when I think about meaning. The thoughts of other intelligent life fascinates me beyond belief, and I have always wanted to be one of the first people to make contact with an alien civilization.

Of course, that could be a result of too much Star Wars. But then again, maybe I like Star Wars so much because I like thinking about interconnected alien species'.

[enWTFp]

PHS Philip, thank you for the beautiful original post!

Math? Astronomy? Biology? History? Physics? or something else entirely?
Yes!! And let's not forget Music! Philosophy too! Computer science - there were dark ages when computers were actually so fascinating and mysterious to explore! Psychology! Geography!...

If I'm to choose only one, it should be Music, as a natural section between Mathematics and Philosophy. It has been in the beginning, and I think someday it will be in the end, for me.


Also, with Music somehow everything came from the inside, I just knew what to do and how to do it, never needed to learn to know, more I needed to learn better what I felt I know already deep inside. This is the type of discovery that none of the other types can touch, because they are all based on finding what is waiting out there. However, I was able to experience similar feelings in understanding Mathematics and Philosophy too, because some of their abstract challenges have often let me find my own paths, and even build my own little worlds, as if out of nothing, and still not be lost.

[notoppings]

For me this feeling comes when I observe nature in any of its manifestations. Nothing is so humbling for a person then to experience the very Earth shake under your feet. To see the majesty of a canyon or a ravine stretching off into the distance. The variety of colors found in a sunset or sunrise. The beauty to be found in a lone standing tree. Sometimes I think only poets should be allowed to describe nature, because I don't have the words. I would sit in the desert and watch as hundreds of lightning strikes would crackle and light up the night.

The universe is wonderful but it is beyond me I find that I can't even picture the vast scope of the one planet that I inhabit, there will always be another wonder of nature around the next bend or over the next hill and in my own back yard.

[ssrprotege]

Yes, sometimes in math, especially when I solved the difficult question in math contests. The very feelings you described I felt when I found out a unique way (different from the answer key ftw after all!) to do the problem.

I had that feeling when I studied chemistry as well. I especially loved the complex ions. VSEPR theory was indeed a lot of fun. Learning substitution reactions in organic chemistry was quite fun, because in part it describes the way reality works. ;)

Actually I have a number of moments that I feel those kind of feelings. I enjoy transforming a cross-section of my experience and conceptualise to gain transformative understanding. The feeling's different from studying math and chemistry, but it's the "wonder" you described.

Well, the word "fun" doesn't really justify what you described PHS Philip, but I understand what you mean.

[Antares]

It's always fascinating to me to see how other people have felt this same sort of thing, so I figured I'd ask: when or how do you feel this sort of thing? Math? Astronomy? Biology? History? Physics? or something else entirely?

Astronomy, History, Physics, Music and simply looking at a grand landscape. I smile to myself whenever I can see a sky full of stars (which isn't really common in Shanghai due to pollution); it reminds me of how small I am and what a magnificent universe we were born into. I stare at landscapes in awe, sometimes at simple photography. Sometimes its baffling how such extraordinary beauty can exist in so ugly a world. I look at History as the most exciting tale ever told; exploring the psychology of major decisions or the sheer action in the story. It's quite amazing how far we have progressed. Music offers a different kind of feeling all together (its even better if I get to listen to it while gazing a fitting scenario, like a garden with Beethoven's "Pastoral").

[simoncpu]

I like astronomy, but not because I like to observe stars. I would like to create my very own star by imploding a planet. Very cool.

[Mozzes]

I like astronomy, but not because I like to observe stars. I would like to create my very own star by imploding a planet. Very cool.

... :huh:

[PHS Philip]

I like astronomy, but not because I like to observe stars. I would like to create my very own star by imploding a planet. Very cool.

Step away from the doomsday device.

[TheLastMohican]

I would like to create my very own star by imploding a planet.

That wouldn't work. You would have to settle for either a small supernova or a black hole.

[simoncpu]

I'd like to make my own monolith, then deploy it to planet Jupiter. The monolith would then replicate by using native materials from that planet. The monoliths would then cover the entire surface of the planet, compress it, and turn it into a star!

Our solar system would then become a binary star system! Wouldn't that be nice?

[TheLastMohican]

I'd like to make my own monolith, then deploy it to planet Jupiter. The monolith would then replicate by using native materials from that planet. The monoliths would then cover the entire surface of the planet, compress it, and turn it into a star!

Our solar system would then become a binary star system! Wouldn't that be nice?

The monoliths would have to be driven towards the core of the planet all at the same instant, creating enormous pressure and a nucler fusion reaction. (A gas giant would not be a good candidate for this process.) Any idea where you would get that sudden compressive force?

[Merle]

I think that feeling of the enormity of the universe, its awesomeness- in a very real sense- is akin to a feeling of religious or spiritual wonderment. At least for me, even though I don't believe that there is a god ( although I was brought up Catholic and so am steeped in Religion lol), to contemplate the vastness of the Universe makes me feel as if my soul does a little flutter up towards eternity. I feel the same thing when I listen to certain pieces of music (like the second movement of Schubert's "Death and the Maiden"). While I don't literally believe this is true, the experience feels religious and transcendental.

[Sequoia]

For me it is the whole thing. Different areas of science just focus in on tiny pieces of the whole. I love to see how it all fits together with each new piece that comes in; with each new mystery explored; no matter which branch of science.

I never lost the sense of wonder I had as a child. The fractal pattern contained within a leaf's viens is as wonderful as observing the planets through a powerful telescope and exploring the inside of a large fault line where continental shelves meet.

[simoncpu]

The monoliths would have to be driven towards the core of the planet all at the same instant, creating enormous pressure and a nucler fusion reaction. (A gas giant would not be a good candidate for this process.) Any idea where you would get that sudden compressive force?

The monoliths would directly deform the time-space around the planet. :)

[ScottH]

I feel that sense of awe and wonderment whenever I grasp something that helps me see myself in perspective: the totality of the evolution of the human species, or of species' in general, for that matter; the breadth of human understanding, and the tiny piece of it that I occupy/own.

I also feel that way any time I grasp a new concept and am able to apply it--however abstractly or inconclusively--to something entirely different or new (for me).

[Colette]

This sort of thing is why I have really never even understood the question "but where do you find meaning in life?" I really do feel bad for those who ask this question, because it makes me think that they've never had the chance to experience this. It's not just an atheist experience, it's not just a theist experience, maybe it's not even just a human experience, but however large the group of those who have the ability to experience this, it is absolutely amazing.

It's always fascinating to me to see how other people have felt this same sort of thing, so I figured I'd ask: when or how do you feel this sort of thing? Math? Astronomy? Biology? History? Physics? or something else entirely?

I think what you're really talking about here is the ability to experience life, and the world, on a spiritual or mystical level. The ability to see patterns, connections, systemic meaning and coherence, and evidence of a grand design (and by the latter I'm not talking necessarily about a God). The ability to see beauty in both the complex and the ordinary. Those who lack this faculty (or perhaps the interest or motivation to explore this side of themselves) miss out on some of the best human life has to offer, imo. Whether you find it in religion, music, art, astronomy, nature, deep sea diving, or whatever, this aspect of life is, for me at least, at the heart of what it means to be human.