INTJ description

[lucki]

INTJ description often involves "the most confident" of the types. I am a bit suspicious of this, as I think that the correlation between confidence and MBTI personality trait is probably weak. This is because Jung's types are more of a differing philosophical viewpoints rather than a personal traits. For personality traits there are other systems such as Big 5 system that is much more grounded on scientific basis(for which confidence as a trait aligns somewhat with the scale of neuroticism)

For instance, I do believe that INTJ are strongly individualistic in that their introverted intuition tends to form a strongly subjective philosophical system based on his/her past experiences. However, this may not necessarily lead to confidence. This may especially be so in the current culture here in U.S.(esp. west coast) where improvisational response and fast thinking represented by extroverted intuition and sensing(and introverted thinking) dominates the IT industry. In such a situation, INTJ's long-cultivated philosophical standpoint tends to be devalued and can hardly be a ground on which to base one's confidence.

I wonder what other people think about this?

[MichaelH]

You're right that "most confident" may not apply to many NTs.

"Independent" or "trusting their own conclusions" is probably a better way to phrase it. I've become less confident over time. I now realize my intuitions can be wrong because I haven't followed my reasoning all the way to the end like an INTP would.

At the same time, I have supreme confidence in my ability to reach valid conclusions, and trust my thought processes infinitely more than others'. I (and, I suspect, most INTJs) have little-to-no herding instinct, andd that may be what the MTBI was referring to.

[The Rose]

INTJ description often involves "the most confident" of the types. I am a bit suspicious of this, as I think that the correlation between confidence and MBTI personality trait is probably weak. This is because Jung's types are more of a differing philosophical viewpoints rather than a personal traits. For personality traits there are other systems such as Big 5 system that is much more grounded on scientific basis(for which confidence as a trait aligns somewhat with the scale of neuroticism)

For instance, I do believe that INTJ are strongly individualistic in that their introverted intuition tends to form a strongly subjective philosophical system based on his/her past experiences. However, this may not necessarily lead to confidence. This may especially be so in the current culture here in U.S.(esp. west coast) where improvisational response and fast thinking represented by extroverted intuition and sensing(and introverted thinking) dominates the IT industry. In such a situation, INTJ's long-cultivated philosophical standpoint tends to be devalued and can hardly be a ground on which to base one's confidence.

I wonder what other people think about this?

You may be right. I used to have audacity which is kind of like confidence, but my lack of confidence is one if the reasons I can't relate entirely to the INTJ profile. I think of ENTJs as confident.

[thegnat]

I used to be supremely confident in my math abilities. Something happened in Calc 2 in which I lost it. It took me A LOT to get it back and I'm still not back to where I used to be. And confidence with math = better grades for me. If I don't question myself, I'm more likely not to make mistakes as odd as that sounds. I'm getting it back w/r/t math but it's harder to get it back than to kill it.

Self esteem? I went through spurts of low self-esteem. Though what's saved my ass and kept me the way I am is something inside of me always telling me "you can do it, you're smart enough, you're strong enough, you're good enough, and you're tough enough to handle *whatever* comes your way." If I didn't have that voice in my head I'd have incredibly low confidence, I wouldn't be confident in who I am and I'd be trying to be someone else.

I'm much more inclined to trust my own thoughts than others' unless it's like a professor's or something.

However I am *very* independent.

*shrugs* I don't know

[wise]

I have the same misgivings about confidence being that strong of an INTJ trait.

[aelan]

This is one of the reasons why I couldn't complely relate to the INTJ description. *I don't think I have any "specialized knowlege systems" (like what they talk about at To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.), and I actually have some insecurity about telling people what I know because a lot of it is intuitive or about subtle things that no one else would even notice, therefore I don't have any sources/data readily available to back it up. *I think that also, being raised in an environment where I was expected to be very in tune with others feelings (and even held responsible for them to some extent), some of my INTJ qualities themselves have been sources of anxiety.

Though I do find it interesting that despite all of this at the surface, I've always seemed to have this underlying confidence in that, no matter how insecure I am about something, deep down I know that I'm right and fine the way I am and won't change myself to make others happy; though I can be very avoidant of people who disaprove of me, and I usually don't like conflict.

[NoahAddle]

'Confidence' is also a place in the INTJ type description that doesn't quite describe me in the way people might normally define that word. When I think about someone I consider to be confident, the associated ideas of certainty and immediate/impulsive action occur to me. Both of those traits don't fit me very well at all. Unfortunately, I have to work with an ESTJ who behaves this way and he tends to throw my thinking off pretty often since I want to trust what he says to be correct since he has much more experience than me and always appears so certain with his words and actions. About half the time, though, he's BS'ing and his ideas are only of the half baked variety. Yet, being called on his BS never seems to get him down for long at all. He's always ready to load up his shotgun of ideas and see what sticks again. With all of the frustration he has caused me, I tend to try to filter him out now.

As for me, on the other hand, I can usually get to the point that I'm sure about something, but almost never completely certain. I'm great in situations where 90% correct is good enough, but not very good at being 100% correct. With this knowledge, I know that most of my thinking/conclusions can be trusted, but because I also know I can be wrong and dislike that happening very much if at all, I tend to appear to be much more tentative than the ESTJ coworker. Also, the way I argue a point is completely different than my confident coworker. I will want to tear an argument apart to see just how robust it really is and try to find the essence of some insight, while my coworker gets confrontational and louder when he wants to make the impression that his point appear stronger so he can win the argument. Guess who appears more confident.

I think I am at my most confident when I act without discussing my ideas with others outside of those select few who I feel I can trust to help me work through my thoughts. Otherwise, I'll get bogged down by the tyranny of the conventional wisdom held by the majority if I talk to too many people, especially since my best ideas tend to flow against the social grain. Sadly, what passes for thought in most people is a deeply held opinion based on a fixed moral value or two and a bunch of unspoken, unexamined assumptions. Yet, by this method valid opinions can be formed very quickly and acted upon, even if they turn out to be very wrong. Those are the people who are considered to be confident.

[MichaelH]

deep down I know that I'm right and fine the way I am and won't change myself to make others happy;

Aelan, you just hit on on half of what it means to be an INTJ.

It's that deep-down sense of rightness that nobody can take from you. I grew up with an ISTJ mother and ESTJ father. As you can imagine, that made for some interesting conflicts. Mom let me be myself, but my dad REALLY wanted me to conform to society and what he thought was the right way to be.

I did want to get along with people, but "conforming" was never high on my list. :)

[Santana28]

Confident? No. Self-Confident? Obscenely.

I know my strengths and my weaknesses better than anyone else who will ever know me. I can tell you exactly what i am and am not capable of.

But that is precisely the problem - i realize my limitations to the point that i avoid entering into situations that i know i will not be able to maintain control over, unless i am actively seeking them out to learn from them and grow from them. I appreciate challenges and actively throw myself into situations just as those from time to time... but otherwise, i will avoid them completely.

I am an "artist." I've drawn my whole life and in the eyes of other people i would be called gifted or talented. To me, its not art at all - it's a method and a technique at venting and expressing frustration... and the occasional bouts of superiority. To me, my life itself is "art." When i was 18 i met someone whose natural abilities greatly exceeded mine. I suddenly hit a totally irrational wall - i couldn't draw anymore. I tried - it was total anxiety. I stopped completely for several years, and i've never regained the mindset and confidence i once had. But to be honest... i really don't care. It wasn't "me" - it was just a tool in my arsenal of which i have no real need for anymore.

I come across as a very confident person - but in reality i'm wracked with anxiety. I am completely self-confident of my decision making abilities... but other than that.... i know that there is much i do not know. And even more that other people do not know ;)

[Nomad]

I had my doubts when I was younger, but time took care of that. I only had trouble when I second guessed myself. I am now serenely confident that I am confident. Everyone has weak points, and mine is picking up on signals from women. It's a language I don't speak. I have no trouble conversing with women, but I miss all those signals which indicate she might be interested in me. It's really quite annoying.

-Nomad

[yllmar]

I'm very glad to have read this thread. I had wondered if my seeming lack of confidence nullified me being INTJ. Sometimes I think I read too much into the MBTI thing.

[coop52]

I'm confident about some things. I feel confident and self-conscious about my intelligence at the same time. I find school to be easy, but I hate it because I used to get made fun of for it when I was younger.

[NeonTetra]

There are some MBTI profiles that are more aspirational than others and very few people meet those standards.

Reading the ENFJ descriptions, people would think I'm the most caring, empathetic, benevolent, person in the world who always says the right thing and the right time. I know that not to be true. I'm often tactless and blunder in social situations by my inability to know when to shut up. My favorite line is "Why I am always the last to know??" But maybe people don't perceive me as that way and that's just the way I feel about it, IDK. I've had people tell me that I seemed to know what I'm doing, when I completely felt like I was flying blind.

So don't worry, it's not just the INTJ description that's daunting. I find the most helpful parts of the descriptions are the faults. If I know that I have these problems then I'm able to check myself and try to be better.

[Max T]

This thread has considered confidence within ourselves, but think how others likely view INTJs. Relative to the population, we must come across as supremely confident. The ingredients suggest this:

INTJs are "Quiet types (read 'shy'- we're sticking with stereotypes here) who keep thoughts to themselves (therefore don't consult others to gain approval/ support) and yet, somehow, are very individualistic (bold/ stubborn) in their interests/ actions and often against the flow of others (incredibly bold)".

Stepping outside ourselves looking in, INTJs must come across as being very confident.

I (and, I suspect, most INTJs) have little-to-no herding instinct, and that may be what the MTBI was referring to.
Exactly MichaelH. In fact, not just nil inclination to follow the herd (unless practical), but actively going against it sometimes too.

I find it really satisfying to act on personally formed views that happen to differ to others. Most times it won't work, but when it does you've helped everyone. The feeling of contributing and making a difference is huge.

[rwyatt365]

I agree with MaxT on this. Within ourselves there is a hint of uncertainty about what we know, sometimes expressed as that "little voice" inside that says, "Do you really know that, are you sure?" That is the thing IMHO that drives the INTJ to search for answers to everything.

But from the outside, the world sees our unwavering commitment to our convictions and our drive to move forward when others would sit back. Our will to act on the basis of the available information is taken as 'confidence'. Our ability to step up and take charge is seen as being bold and decisive. And that independent streak in us is seen as personal confidence.

Wrap it all up and the INTJ type is seen as an arrogant, confident know-it-all through other eyes. It's only us that knows what goes on "inside".

[Max T]

Within ourselves there is a hint of uncertainty about what we know, sometimes expressed as that "little voice" inside that says, "Do you really know that, are you sure?" That is the thing IMHO that drives the INTJ to search for answers to everything.

Absolutely Rwyatt365- that little voice of uncertainty (that others above relate to lack of confidence in specific areas) is what makes our self-belief so healthy. We neither suffer "blind know it all over-confidence" nor "all reaching halo of lack of confidence" that others are afflicted with. Instead we know exactly our strengths and weaknesses.

And what is the source of this ability to know when to follow our judgement and when not to? Our logical, rational NT thinking coupled with J for decisiveness and lack of E to not care what others really think about our views! I think INTJs have a very level-headed internal perspective or high intrapersonal intelligence.

So the direction of causes look like:
Level-headed internal perspective
= know when to follow own judgement or listen to 'uncertainty voice'
= overpowering internal confidence when we think we're right (and in these situations we most likely are- our view has already been filtered through our own robust standards and is not 'brittle' to counter views but accepting)
= external manifestation of confidence... 'though it's least expected to come from a quiet type and perhaps therefore leading to INTJs being labelled THE most confident of all types.

[deicruxified]

i do think you're right... not "most confident". however i'd like to say "pragmatic risk taker". we do depend on our past experiences but if we can't find anything from our experience bank, we trust our intuition on facing new endeavors.

[Bossy Mom]

I have always been extremely independent. I tell my mother that I never want to be married again, and she tells me I'm "just too independent to be married." I like to speak to crowds of people about organ donation and my experience with my daughter's two liver transplants. Lately I have been frustrated with this, since my volunteer organization wants minority speakers, and I'm white. It angers me that I cannot share this -- and I am a confident speaker -- one they can really use!

[ps646566]

I frequently see reference to 'closed minded certitude' with reference to the INTJ type.

Well I can see the point, but like most things I don't think it's as simple as that.

If I were to say (forgive the UK-oriented example, but you'll get the drift) "Tony Blair was a superb politician, but a lousy national leader.", then a lot of people who disagree would take umbrage and call it closed minded certitude. If I were to say however "In my view there is a case for saying that whilst Blair was undoubtedly a superb politician, he did in many ways leave a lot to be desired as a national leader", probably fewer people would make the allegation about closed-mindedness etc.

In both cases of course exactly the same opinion is being expressed. But in the second case it is being clearly expressed as matter of opinion, leaving the door open to disagreement. Anyone who knows which end is up, would however knows that it is just an opinion, regardless of how it is couched-- how can it be anything else since it is merely a subjective judgment of Blair.

I have found that a lot of people are very sensitive to this, and react adversely to opinions being expressed in that way. Most INTJ's however probably feel most comfortable with that approach, and see little point in beating about the bush with apologies and solicitudes for their views. In fact they may well be expressing a view about which they are themselves less than certain, in order to stimulate an interesting debate.

Because INTJ's do a lot of thinking and evaluating, they are probably in fact less certain about many things than they appear to be. But their approach will often be, "That's the conclusion that I have come to on the facts and the evidence at my disposal. If you think I'm wrong then try to prove me wrong." They will be open to rational discussion, but too often the reaction to that is more concentrated on objecting to how they put over their point, than on sensibly and logically delivering a counter-argument.

[SolitaryWalker]

Hang in there, I'll write an INTJ profile soon and post here.

INTJs are confident due to their T factor fomented by the NT combination. However, less confident than the other 3 NTs because their T preferrence is weaker. (Defers to the ENTP Te<Ti).

Introverted Functions are stronger than their extroverted counterparts because they are closer to the unconscious mind. Mind originates from within, therefore the more internally a function is, the more loyal it is to its quintissence. (Thus Ti is more of a T than Te)

[GOD]

Its referring to technical confidence or sureness of ones knowledge.

INTJs aren't confident to stand up in front of others... Thats an E trait.

The most confident type will likely be an xNTJ that has migrated from being an INTJ in youth to a more outgoing person in line with their increasing abilities.

[Lucid]

Actually, I'm pretty comfortable having to get up in front of a group of people and talk. At first it terrified me (like it does most people), but I've had to do it so often for school that now it doesn't phase me. I actually kind of enjoy having to talk in front of a group of people to inform them or persuade them of something. However I could never do something entertaining in front of a group of people, like tell jokes or sing.

[thephoenix1414]

To Quote rwyatt365 "Wrap it all up and the INTJ type is seen as an arrogant, confident know-it-all through other eyes. It's only us that knows what goes on "inside"

I find this to be especially true, my very close friends (the two or three I have) know this to not be true, but there are very many instances when I have basically been called an arrogant bastard with morbid sarcasm. On most of these occasions I was debating an answer on some test and why it was not right. Even my teacher called me arrogant once...then she realized her answer was wrong. Anybody else have this happen?

When I asked my friend once if I was really that arrogant, he said "No, there is a difference between arrogance and confidence, and most people are just jealous of that confidence." (surprisingly he is an ESTP)

Anyways to sum this up:
I think we intj's know what we're right on and are willing to argue about it, but we also know when we have no idea what we are talking about and just keep our mouth shut. So sometimes we have the tendency to seem to be always right.

Does/did anyone else have the problem of people in school making a big deal out of getting a higher grade on a test than you(and you of course not caring a single bit)?