INTJ Females

[Jezebel]

To the INTJ females: what has your experience been like being an INTJ female? Do you have trouble relating to other females?

Do you agree with this:

Statistically, there are more male INTJs than female. *Not surprisingly, the INTJ female's independence, intellectual aloofness, and argumentative style may result in her feeling somewhat out of step with those attributes more traditionally associated with femininity. *For an INTJ female to be true to herself may put her out of step with the mainstream.


To everyone else, how do you perceive INTJ females? Do you find them more or less appealing (either as friends or romantic partners) than the typical female?



(I'll answer this too, I just don't want the first post in this thread to be about me)

[Tarrick]

INTJ Females are very...well, surprising. It's unexpected whenever I meet one simply because they're so rare. It's a very pleasant surprise, mine you, as I suddenly have someone who I can more readily relate to.

At first, I do sometimes find myself a bit off-kilter though, because INTJ Females are not masculine, but speak and act in a rational, thoughtful manner. It's a very different blend then Male Rational give off. Again it's a very...curious and unconventional feeling whenever I interact with one them partly because it's so rare (thus leading to a feeling of contradiction) and partly because I'm talking with someone of similar brain function. But I get that whenever I interact with any Rational.

The fact that she (the INTJ female) is independent and intellectual in nature is very refreshing really. It puts her in a place where we are more equal than I would be with others, even some guys, and we are able to carry out tasks and discussions (or knock out arguments) in a manner much more efficiently and with less social trappings. It's not that I'm so cold that I can be supportive, but constant hand-holding is...ineffective.

In the end, I just wish I knew and interacted with more of them.

Anyways, that's my opinion.

[Firelie]

Oh hell yeah, I agree with that. Growing up, almost all of the girl friends I had used to admire me for my independence and frequently came to me for advice (whether I knew anything about the subject or not...that always kinda confused me, especially when I was 17 and people far more experienced in the areas of love were coming to me for advice on their relationships...which they never took, even though I was ALWAYS RIGHT), but I was never really "one of the girls". Even the person that called me her "best friend" often ignored me because I wasn't "cool" like her other friends. Actually, most of the friends I have now do the same thing. Wow, that sounds really sad when I say it like that. lol I don't really mind, though, since I'd rather not be out hitting the bars and dancing anyway.

I also have trouble relating to men...I don't entirely know why, but I've been thinking about it, and I think most "normal men" tend to expect women to be outgoing and talkative and flirtatious and sensitive...and therefore don't know what to do with me. *shrugs* Maybe I'm way off base, though.

[The Rose]

To the INTJ females: what has your experience been like being an INTJ female? Do you have trouble relating to other females?

Do you agree with this:

Statistically, there are more male INTJs than female. *Not surprisingly, the INTJ female's independence, intellectual aloofness, and argumentative style may result in her feeling somewhat out of step with those attributes more traditionally associated with femininity. *For an INTJ female to be true to herself may put her out of step with the mainstream.I didn't realize that my problem with women was my INTJness.
I just thought I hated women because my mother was a manipulative liar (ISTJ),
and my sister was the queen of denial (INFP).
I prefer honesty and openness.

I don't relate to "girly girls".
I don't mind the tomboyish gals so much.

The one type of female I CANNOT get along with is ESTJ.
I have broken relationships with 3 women and all 3 of them are ESTJs.
I can get along with ESTJ men okay.

I have read something similar to the statement you quoted.
I just assumed it was true.
I had to learn to be feminine. It didn't come naturally.

If there are 2 conversations going on in a room,
one is with a group of men, and one is with a group of women,
I would much rather go take part in the conversation the men are having,
just because the subject matter is bound to be more interesting to me.
I love talking about ideas.
I hate talking about people.

[TeleportThis]

I guess I've always just totally ignored girls that I didn't find interesting. Most of my friends are girls, but they aren't stereotypical females.

I have said more than once that I find most moms to be annoying. I guess I couldn't just ignore them because that would have been rude.

I don't have to come into contact with stereotypical females much, because they just don't exist in engineering. Except maybe IE.

But I wouldn't say I feel out of step with just stereotypical females. I also feel out of step with stereotypical males, although I am more comfortable around them than the females.

[Rei]

Before my knowledge of my INTJ nature I hardly ever noticed any other females like me (perhaps my mother? *I have yet to test her)

I do find it rather difficult give people a typical feminine first impression... I've always been more at ease talking to guys than girls, and tend to have more guy friends than girl friends.

The aloof, independant, argumentative, 'cold' traits that are typical of INTJ's makes it very hard to buddy up with girls. *It seems extra easy to insult them accidently. *Independance; as far as I know/believe every single guy who's ever been interested in me were interested because they were intrigued by my independance and perhaps my sharp tongue.
I am so at ease with guy friends that I'm pretty much one of them, which, I've been told, is sometimes intimidating (and yet at other times I get to see/hear a lot of things other girls generally do not).

Honestly, at times I think I'd probably make a great guy. *It'd be so much easier to be an INTJ guy. *Sadly, women do not turn be on so I can't go homosexual... *sighs*

But anyway... INTJ women are to men, like the "Fabulous Gay Man" behind "Every Great Woman". Since I find that gay woman don't generally seem to have that kind of bond with straight men. =/

[Firelie]

Honestly, at times I think I'd probably make a great guy. *It'd be so much easier to be an INTJ guy. *Sadly, women do not turn me on so I can't go homosexual... *sighs*

Hahaha! I've thought the same thing. People have thought I was a lesbian many times before (including my own mother... :-X).

[Jezebel]

I find my personality very at odds with what most people expect, I think even a lot moreso than the INTJ males. I'm far from the overtly sweet, nuturing, submissive type usually expected of most females. *I've been told that I'm too cold and insensitive many times (while not trying to be).

It's not that I'm trying to be mean though. In fact, I often think that I'm nicer (deep down) than most people I know. It's just that being rational can sound cold and openly talking about feelings or acting mushy makes me feel extremely uncomfortable. I don't give the appropriate social cues people expect and I hate being chatty. When people come to me for help, rather than just listening or showing empathy, I go into fix-it mode or get annoyed if I think they're whining and not trying hard enough (and I'll tell them so). I think a lot of people just want someone who will listen and show sympathy.

I've had trouble finding female friends with similar interests. However, I prefer them as friends as the friendships tend to run into a lot less complications and I like a select few quite a bit.

[Rei]

Oh hell yeah, I agree with that. *Growing up, almost all of the girl friends I had used to admire me for my independence and frequently came to me for advice (whether I knew anything about the subject or not...that always kinda confused me, especially when I was 17 and people far more experienced in the areas of love were coming to me for advice on their relationships...which they never took, even though I was ALWAYS RIGHT), but I was never really "one of the girls".


I totally know what you mean. Since the time people getting crushes and started to day, I've been asked for advice. The catch is, I didn't start dating till YEARS after everyone else did, and it didn't work out for long either. And yet, I am still constantly expected to give advice on these matters (*cough* yes, they ask, and then they never pull through with "the plan" I teach them).

It's also true that I've never been "one of the girls" All through childhood, I used to move around a lot; but even when my family settled down I never stuck to a single group of friends for more than one school year (because I fall out of favour since I don't try to butter the "leaders" up like everyone else likes to do, and in fact tends to burn them with my straightforward comments). It wasn't until people got older that people stopped these little social wars that I quietly slipped into a "group", but even then I generally only had one or two real friends; otherwise I was the advice person =/. And yet, all through this, I talked to guy friends about things that I never talked to my girl "friends" about (actually I never really chatted with my girl "friends" unless they were in need of advice... or when they needed to talk, which meant I was really just sitting there like a dummy who nods sympathetically)

[Rei]

Honestly, at times I think I'd probably make a great guy. *It'd be so much easier to be an INTJ guy. *Sadly, women do not turn me on so I can't go homosexual... *sighs*

Hahaha! *I've thought the same thing. *People have thought I was a lesbian many times before (including my own mother... :-X).


Over the years, I've gone through spells of being paranoid that people think I'm a lesbian. But since then I've been told that there are distinct differences between me (INTJ) and lesbians. Apparently, I act like a man, but I still SOUND like a woman =/ (I guess they mean I still have female values and female tastes... eg. for hot guys ;D)

[Firelie]

Over the years, I've gone through spells of being paranoid that people think I'm a lesbian. *But since then I've been told that there are distinct differences between me (INTJ) and lesbians. *Apparently, I act like a man, but I still SOUND like a woman =/ *(I guess they mean I still have female values and female tastes... eg. for hot guys *;D)

I was offended by the assumptions that I was a lesbian at first, but then I realized that if not being like other women meant that people thought I was a lesbian, then they could think all they wanted, cuz there was no way I was going to change myself to fit their expectations.

[Rei]

I'm far from the overtly sweet, nuturing, submissive type usually expected of most females. *I've been told that I'm too cold and insensitive many times (while not trying to be).

It's not that I'm trying to be mean though. In fact, I often think that I'm nicer (deep down) than most people I know. It's just that being rational can sound cold and openly talking about feelings or acting mushy makes me feel extremely uncomfortable. I don't give the appropriate social cues people expect and I hate being chatty. When people come to me for help, rather than just listening or showing empathy, I go into fix-it mode or get annoyed if I think they're whining and not trying hard enough (and I'll tell them so). I think a lot of people just want someone who will listen and show sympathy.

I've had trouble finding female friends with similar interests. However, I prefer them as friends as the friendships tend to run into a lot less complications and I like a select few quite a bit.

Too true. I've been accused of being insensitive, but it's just the way I like things to be out in the open. I dislike disillusionging people and trying to sugarcoat things. I think that comes with the perfectionist side of INTJ's. But really, I'm actually a lot nicer and more forgiving than many people I know. Openly talking about feelings seems to completely cross the comfort zone, as in privacy completely invaded! And small-talk is a complete waste of time (anal effieciency typical of INTJ's). Like I said, I have very few female friends I will actually talk to about my thoughts. One - my best - is an INTP; the other two are INFP's.

[Rei]

I was offended by the assumptions that I was a lesbian at first, but then I realized that if not being like other women meant that people thought I was a lesbian, then they could think all they wanted, cuz there was no way I was going to change myself to fit their expectations.


I think I was too intimidating to be openly asked/called a lesbian. But I've met several lesbians in my time who tended to... gravitate to me. It's cool hanging out, but it usually starts to get rather awkward.

But definately, I've come to embrace my male-ness. It's just frustrating trying to find guys I like who don't mind it =/

[Opti]

I have always been a tom boy in the way I dress and I am quite tall & thick set. *I have tried to make a conscious effort to be more feminine for work (Keeping my hair long, more fitted clothing as opposed to baggy) as I have also been a little paranoid that people think I am a lesbian. I had a work friend a few years back who was openly lesbian, we were close (Well close as in I could talk to her about some of my personal life). On a work night out that I had to be pestered to goto, another work colleague made a comment asking if she was my 'boyfriend' - at the time I just laughed, now I would act differently *;)

I have just recently got all my hair chopped up short, I am going to be true to myself, I am beyond caring what people think :)

As for male/female friendships - I have always got on better with males (apart from when they talk about sport lol) However the issue I have found with some men is that they think I fancy them because we get on well and then the flirtation starts *:scared:

Any female 'aquaintancies' wanted to chat about beauty/fashion/relationships/sex etc etc. Which quite frankly I find A: Boring & B: Too Personal.

[Guido]

Although I can't relate so much to the girl specific stuff... it still baffles me how I can read post after post after post... and just think to myself 'that's me in a nutshell.'

But yeah... as far as dating another INTJ, I have no idea. I've never known an INTJ in my life, so I have no idea how I'd get along with someone like myself. I'd like to imagine that everything would be fine, but if we were to disagree on some fundamental, I'm not sure what would happen. The more I know someone, the more 'open' I tend to be which could cause things to get messy if that 'openness' was retaliated. I imagine though if we both respected each other intellectually, then there wouldn't be a problem. I'm attracted to girls who have a more traditional classy look. Not girly girls, but never the less, girls that dress like girls. I'm guessing INTJ might not be so right for that. Apparently a good match is ENFP or ENTP? I know an ENFP and they're nuts >_<!! Ugh...

I'm not entirely sure your situation would be that much better if you were a guy, in fact I would argue it would make the situation worse. Although I can't exactly prove that for sure, I'll still argue it :D Although a guy could be intimidated with your personality type, you can get along with guys. If the guy finds you attractive and you get along, you can start dating as demonstrated by ladder theory. (Google ladder theory if you're curious, which I know you all are... but we warned, it bashes women a bit :o) Us guys on the other hand, are screwed. Getting along with girls for me, is completely foreign. I am trying very hard to mimic socialization customs, body language, etc, in hopes of defeating my 24 year streak of not having a serious girlfriend. I've made good progress, but it's very difficult. Most girls have emotional needs of some kind, which I don't relate with too well and can sometimes not respect. I mean really, why should anyone need constant reassurance? It just reminds me of a child wanting attention from it's parents. Ugh... another topic I'm bitter about I guess.

Regardless of who's got it worse off, the biggest hurdle we all have is meeting people. I don't think INTJs are good at that... at all :/ This is apparently one of the things our personality types has big problems with... or our 'Achilles heel' as one write up put it. In short, I think we're all doomed. Just remember to be doomed with a smile.

[Rei]

Oh yes... the way we dress/look...

I generally like keep my hair at shoulder length or shorter. It's just more convenient, plus it cuts down the chances of getting hair stuck in jacket zippers, and getting frizzy due to static. ::)
I dress, as my friend could call it, with style. Different style depending on my mood =/ And class, boy do I LOVE classiness.

But I still have that irking that I exude this... "machoness" let's say... no matter what I wear. My tiny frame helps me get away with slightly girly looks, but never any more than that. I have this... mini version of an athletic build (and I seriously don't work out), *mutters about thick calves and arms and blames it on the cross country team in grade school* So yeah, I'm uncomfortable with wearing skirts/dresses even though I like them :thinking:

Anyway. It seems relating to people emotionally is an ability we lack. I guess in guys it does cause a bit of a problem. Perhaps you are better off finding an INTJ girl who doesn't splurge on emotional rants all the time.

I must say, I would probably find it easier to find someone who is emotionally open beacuse I'm awful at sensing it; but i believe in a relationship you have to share emotions (it's one of those things you have to force yourself to do... another example of showing affection :-/)

[The Rose]

I had a boss who was an ISFJ.
I learned so much from her.
She had a lot of strengths where I am weak.
I loved the way she was patient with me when I made mistakes.
I learned how to slow down and stop thinking about deadlines so much,
and she seemed to accept me unconditionally at first,
but I don't think I could ever be married to an ISFJ type.

It was so easy to hurt her feelings!
And no matter how much I apologized, she couldn't just forgive and move on.
One hurt stacked on top of another hurt until she wouldn't even talk to me.
She is extremely generous, but I am extremely conservative,
and she didn't like that about me.
I learned to be more generous, but that doesn't change my basic way of thinking - to conserve in all things.

Generally speaking, I think opposites attract anyway.
I'm not sure I've ever known an INTJ.

[Firelie]

lol @ ladder theory. *That one cracks me up every time I read it. *The sad thing is that I've met a number of women like that...and then there are the men who have met those women and then assumed that ALL women are like that. *It's really hard to translate into terms people understand that when I say "I want a guy with a job", I mean "I want a guy with a job because I don't want some loser leeching off of me while he sits on his ass playing video games at home and I'm out working"...NOT "I want a guy with a job because I want to eventually take all of his money and move to Hawaii." *Too many people immediately leap to the second one without even stopping to consider that there may be more options. *Frustrating, really.

[Rei]

lol @ ladder theory. *That one cracks me up every time I read it. *The sad thing is that I've met a number of women like that...and then there are the men who have met those women and then assumed that ALL women are like that. *It's really hard to translate into terms people understand that when I say "I want a guy with a job", I mean "I want a guy with a job because I don't want some loser leeching off of me while he sits on his ass playing video games at home and I'm out working"...NOT "I want a guy with a job because I want to eventually take all of his money and move to Hawaii." *Too many people immediately leap to the second one without even stopping to consider that there may be more options. *Frustrating, really.



well said *fumes*

[Guido]

I've always thought that for every retarded girl out there, there's an equally retarded guy. Which means, the world is full of retards :D Talking with my ESFP sister about all the guy's she's met and considers dating (and I don't know if there is a worse type out there for bad choices in mates... which makes sense I guess since I think INTJs are the pickiest) really confirms that...

[Tarrick]

Us guys on the other hand, are screwed. Getting along with girls for me, is completely foreign. I am trying very hard to mimic socialization customs, body language, etc, in hopes of defeating my 24 year streak of not having a serious girlfriend. I've made good progress, but it's very difficult. Most girls have emotional needs of some kind, which I don't relate with too well and can sometimes not respect.

Too true. As a Rational guy, I can talk to and work with girls as people, but not really as girls. I've become very practiced at using my intuition as a substitute for feeling, but trying to have a conversation/debate with anyone who is a moderately strong F is borderline painful, especially when they "lockdown" on a particular point and won't budge.

As for emotional needs...yeah about those. No clue what to do with them.

[Rei]

.... trying to have a conversation/debate with anyone who is a moderately strong F is borderline painful, especially when they "lockdown" on a particular point and won't budge.

When people argue with feelings, I stop having things to argue with them about. Because they're totally off the charts in terms of possible reasonable points to make against their feelings because they pull in things that don't see at all relevant to the actual argument, but it;s something they seem to think links everything together. O____o

[Jezebel]

Off topic replies moved to This Thread. (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)

[polenka]

(I guess they mean I still have female values and female tastes... eg. for hot guys *;D)

Yes...that does tend to be a distinguishing feature :P that I too, retain...in addition to an indulgence in fashion and shopping (I'm not entirely sure why...perhaps it has something to do with the game of getting designer clothing at non-designer prices... :suspicious:).

People tend to view me as cold, and I definitely sometimes offend people during conversations with my rationality and lack of thought for personal feelings...especially my more feeling friends...my cousin actually thanked me for being the way I am because she said I prepared her for interactions with her husband!

[Firelie]

Heh. The joys of being a woman. I don't dress fashionably, but oh god, I love that show What Not To Wear. My roommates sit around and happily be judgemental while watching that one.

[Tarrick]

Heh. The joys of being a woman. I don't dress fashionably, but oh god, I love that show What Not To Wear. My roommates sit around and happily be judgemental while watching that one.

I hate that show. I mean, did no one ever teach them about comfort or practicality?

[Firelie]

I hate that show. I mean, did no one ever teach them about comfort or practicality?

No, they're poofy New Yorkers with a need to make everyone look fantastically stylish, not comfortable.

[Tarrick]

Damn them. Don't they know that practicality comes before aesthetics?

[Rei]

Looking nice doesn't have to be impractical.
Old, dirty, outdated clothes doesn't equal comfort either.
Not to mention the people who like to wear clothes that arn't their size.

[TeleportThis]

Heh. The joys of being a woman. I don't dress fashionably, but oh god, I love that show What Not To Wear. My roommates sit around and happily be judgemental while watching that one.

I know where you are coming from. I really like Project Runway. It always makes me want to sew and then I'll start something and remember how boring sewing actually is.

[Tarrick]

Here's a comic (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) that you females may enjoy (well this one in particular. It's a usually a very funny comic in general).

[The Rose]

Here's a comic (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) that you females may enjoy (well this one in particular. It's a usually a very funny comic in general).Makes me feel sorry for guys.
It was cute.

[TheFreeThinker]

I’m kinda Tommy girl but I try to wear stylish and updated clothes always. However I only wear the comfortable ones.

[Tarrick]

I’m kinda Tommy girl but I try to wear stylish and updated clothes always. However I only wear the comfortable ones.

Just to confirm this, that's not an oxymoron?

[TheFreeThinker]

I’m kinda Tommy girl but I try to wear stylish and updated clothes always. However I only *wear the comfortable ones. *

Just to confirm this, that's not an oxymoron?

Yeah, thanks! I think Tom girl would be correct??? Anyway, all I meant was "I'm not girly" I have to improve my English more :)

[Tarrick]

Err...
I was referring to the clothes actually. :)

And by all means, introduce yourself in the introduction forum. :thumbsup:

[TheFreeThinker]

Err...
I was referring to the clothes actually. *:)

And by all means, introduce yourself in the introduction forum. *:thumbsup:

Oops, since some people were talking about "What Not to Wear", "Project Runway" and their clothing styles, I thought it was relevant. Maybe I should have quoted those people. I’m new to forums, I’m learning. ;D

[hopscotch]

It seems we share many experiences because we don't conform to society's perception of 'female'.

I, too, get along better with men than women. I don't care to discuss fashion, celebrities and relationships (especially when conversations turn to sex) so that leaves me with little to talk about with most women. I dislike the bar scene and scoff at women who frequent them in hopes of nabbing a hot, rich, jock-type protector. I cringe when I hear intelligent women yearning for the day when they can quit their jobs and become kept women or stay-at-home moms. Whenever I voice my opposition, I'm regarded as an enemy or branded a man-hater. Pardon me for having ambitions and adhering to my values. My rather Machiavellian view of the world is also unpopular.

I prefer talking to NT men (most S types are too stereotypical and I've no patience for Fs) who challenge me and appreciate my arguments and insights. They are also the most likely to understand my quirky and sometimes offensive humour. However, they tend to regard me as 'one of the guys', making more-than-a-friend relationships virtually non-existent for most of my life. I think some men, especially those lacking confidence and direction, are intimidated by an independent, intelligent women who doesn't need a big, strong man to comfort and care for her. I refuse to feign vulnerability, ignorance and emotion to match their expectations.

In summary, I usually feel awkward and misunderstood.

[Firelie]

It seems we share many experiences because we don't conform to society's perception of 'female'.

I, too, get along better with men than women. *I don't care to discuss fashion, celebrities and relationships (especially when conversations turn to sex) so that leaves me with little to talk about with most women. *I dislike the bar scene and scoff at women who frequent them in hopes of nabbing a hot, rich, jock-type protector. *I cringe when I hear intelligent women yearning for the day when they can quit their jobs and become kept women or stay-at-home moms. *Whenever I voice my opposition, I'm regarded as an enemy or branded a man-hater. *Pardon me for having ambitions and adhering to my values. *My rather Machiavellian view of the world is also unpopular.

I prefer talking to NT men (most S types are too stereotypical and I've no patience for Fs) who challenge me and appreciate my arguments and insights. *They are also the most likely to understand my quirky and sometimes offensive humour. *However, they tend to regard me as 'one of the guys', making more-than-a-friend relationships virtually non-existent for most of my life. *I think some men, especially those lacking confidence and direction, are intimidated by an independent, intelligent women who doesn't need a big, strong man to comfort and care for her. *I refuse to feign vulnerability, ignorance and emotion to match their expectations.

In summary, I usually feel awkward and misunderstood.

Heyyyy, welcome to the club. I was smiling and nodding while reading your entire post.

[phoenix]

It seems we share many experiences because we don't conform to society's perception of 'female'.

I, too, get along better with men than women. *I don't care to discuss fashion, celebrities and relationships (especially when conversations turn to sex) so that leaves me with little to talk about with most women. *I dislike the bar scene and scoff at women who frequent them in hopes of nabbing a hot, rich, jock-type protector. *I cringe when I hear intelligent women yearning for the day when they can quit their jobs and become kept women or stay-at-home moms. *Whenever I voice my opposition, I'm regarded as an enemy or branded a man-hater. *Pardon me for having ambitions and adhering to my values. *My rather Machiavellian view of the world is also unpopular.


I can so completely relate to this. Growing up my mother was the strong one, the primary bread-winner. In college I was typically the only female in my courses. It wasn't until I got into a "regular job" that I ran into this mindset...that what women want, and SHOULD want, is a male protector and provider. This concept runs so contrary to my personal set of beliefs that I still have trouble accepting that people really feel that way.

I once had a superior tell me that he really appreciated the fact that he didn't have to tell me what needed to be done, didn't have to explain how to do it. What bothered me was the way he phrased it. "You're not like the other women I've had as employees..." I think he thought he was giving me a compliment. Instead he told me that the one thing I wanted to do right at that moment was find a position where he wasn't my boss.

And yes, people think I'm a man-hater for many reasons....

[jeffersonian]

Like most of the males who responded, I don't know that I've ever encountered an INTJ female. This is of great disappointment to me.

Relating to males for me is pointless because I don't care about sports, AT ALL. I also don't think it's cute or funny to not be able to iron your own clothes, not be able to cook for yourself, and generally sit around in a diaper waiting for other people to tend to you basic needs. I don't think I'm at all extreme in summarizing the typical American male.

An INTJ female would be absolutely outstanding to spend time with and/or date. There are so many ideas floating around in my head that I can't really discuss in relationships because I know my "normal" companion will just think them bizarre rather than helping me examine the logic that gave rise to them.

Relating to females, in general, is a bit easier. I tend to stick to the quiet ones, and I've also found that analyzing people (internally) is fruitful because it keeps me asking questions about them. As a substitute for idle conversation, which I can't do, people thrive on this because I'm letting them talk about themselves.

[mind_wander]

Anyway. *It seems relating to people emotionally is an ability we lack. *I guess in guys it does cause a bit of a problem. *Perhaps you are better off finding an INTJ girl who doesn't splurge on emotional rants all the time.


Actually, once someone in my class who was my female team member cried on the phone. I was very forgiving; yeah it seems, I normally get the emotional one's or unstable. Be a man and take it all in.

[Rei]

Actually, once someone in my class who was my female team member cried on the phone. I was very forgiving; yeah it seems, I normally get the emotional one's or unstable. Be a man and take it all in.

I have a huge intolerance of people who openly cry when they're in a bad situation. *I'm open to listening to their problems on the phone and giving them advice as needed, and if they start to cry a little part way through it's okay. *But if they are crying and call me while they're crying I'd just freak out. *First of all, the person is not in a state that allows any logical analysis of the problem, so she's just calling me to listen to her cry, and just I don't have the patience for it. *I am not built to be anyone's emotional support, I'm built to be an advisor.

I myself only ever cry when I watch really REALLY good movies. If I ever cry about shit happening in my life, no one will know it ever happened.

[rwyatt365]

An INTJ female would be absolutely outstanding to spend time with and/or date. There are so many ideas floating around in my head that I can't really discuss in relationships because I know my "normal" companion will just think them bizarre rather than helping me examine the logic that gave rise to them.

Relating to females, in general, is a bit easier. I tend to stick to the quiet ones, and I've also found that analyzing people (internally) is fruitful because it keeps me asking questions about them. As a substitute for idle conversation, which I can't do, people thrive on this because I'm letting them talk about themselves.
I'm with you on both of these points.

I learned early in life not to even TRY to relay many of the thoughts that swarm inside my head to anyone, much less a "significant other". Reactions have ranged from blank stares, to (what seemed like) outright terror! So, I've learned to keep my thoughts behind the impenetrable walls of my own mind. Of course that means that I don't sleep well – all those thoughts buzzing around like so many bees tends to keep you up at night. I can't discuss movies, or TV shows, current events, or philosophies of life with anyone.

I probably don’t have to tell any of you about being alone in a crowded room. What is more disturbing is being alone in the company of the person that you call your mate/spouse/girlfriend/etc. How awesome would it be (for me) to speak my mind, express my thoughts to a female partner and be UNDERSTOOD, even respected!

For those of you ladies that have that kind of relationship with your significant other, a heartfelt congratulations. Whether it be INTJ-INTJ or some other paring, cherish what you have because it is rare and beautiful. For those ladies that don’t (currently) have that kind of relationship, seek it. Don’t let anyone put your light under a bushel because yours is a light that will illuminate the world. There are enough brain-dead robot-girls out there to satisfy those that will settle for less. Your unique qualities are what we need.

You go (INTJ) girl! :thumbsup:

[mind_wander]

Actually, once someone in my class who was my female team member cried on the phone. I was very forgiving; yeah it seems, I normally get the emotional one's or unstable. Be a man and take it all in.

I have a huge intolerance of people who openly cry when they're in a bad situation. *I'm open to listening to their problems on the phone and giving them advice as needed, and if they start to cry a little part way through it's okay. *But if they are crying and call me while they're crying I'd just freak out. *First of all, the person is not in a state that allows any logical analysis of the problem, so she's just calling me to listen to her cry, and just I don't have the patience for it. *I am not built to be anyone's emotional support, I'm built to be an advisor.


lol, I found this very funny. yeah, my basic instinct is take a chill pill; let them open up to you. No work has to be done, but the only thing is that you can slowly help admend the problems, listen to concerns, etc. As you said, I'm more the advisor; sure alot of people got problems. I always wondered, why come to me? Is there is invisible tag on my back says, "Hey, this dude here is quite and will take all your problems away?"

[mind_wander]

Reactions have ranged from blank stares, to (what seemed like) outright terror! So, I've learned to keep my thoughts behind the impenetrable walls of my own mind. Of course that means that I don't sleep well – all those thoughts buzzing around like so many bees tends to keep you up at night. I can't discuss movies, or TV shows, current events, or philosophies of life with anyone.

I probably don’t have to tell any of you about being alone in a crowded room. What is more disturbing is being alone in the company of the person that you call your mate/spouse/girlfriend/etc. How awesome would it be (for me) to speak my mind, express my thoughts to a female partner and be UNDERSTOOD, even respected!

For those of you ladies that have that kind of relationship with your significant other, a heartfelt congratulations. Whether it be INTJ-INTJ or some other paring, cherish what you have because it is rare and beautiful. For those ladies that don’t (currently) have that kind of relationship, seek it. Don’t let anyone put your light under a bushel because yours is a light that will illuminate the world. There are enough brain-dead robot-girls out there to satisfy those that will settle for less. Your unique qualities are what we need.

You go (INTJ) girl! *:thumbsup:

rwyatt365,

I know exactly what you mean; I get the blank stares too. Like your wild animal came straight from the zoo. As for bottling up your thoughts; what happens you tend to circumvent it in your writings without knowing it. Luckily this website exists, so you can tell it others around the world who knows what you mean [logical thinkers in plain English 101].

Trust me on this one, we need more INTJ's, without logics well things just goes down the tube for ya.

[thegnat]

First of all, my opinion on the matter of
Statistically, there are more male INTJs than female. Not surprisingly, the INTJ female's independence, intellectual aloofness, and argumentative style may result in her feeling somewhat out of step with those attributes more traditionally associated with femininity. For an INTJ female to be true to herself may put her out of step with the mainstream.

I absolutely agree.

When I'm most true to myself I'm definitely more out of step with the mainstream as they say. And I am pretty true to myself. I'm sick of faking a little bit at all anymore. I am who I am, I should embrace it.

I suppose one of the biggest things is I don't relate to women as other women do. Like I'm the last one to empathize with the girl who just broke down in tears because she just broke up with her boyfriend. Others see her crying and jump in and I'm like what the hell is going on? Then I hear screams of hysteria of how she broke up. Then I understand. And even so, I'm still not that empathetic with her. I'm actually more like, "Yeah! It's awesome I'm single!" So I kind of inwardly grin and don't give too much comfort to the person - especially because I really can't empathize with a person in that situation.... In other situations though that I might be able to relate to I can empathize a little bit...but I won't be bawling with the person so to speak or what not. I'd rather give them their space almost. Because that's what I'd want. I think empathy is one of those things that really does separate at least me, from mainstream women. I really do feel it sometimes - I just don't express it.

I absolutely despise gossip. Can't stand it. Or any "people-related" talk. Let's talk about ideas, sports, anything other than gossip. Or fashion... why worry SO MUCH about fashion? Granted, I like to look decent. But I don't go out of my way to find the uber-trendy outfit that looks hot on my for one day and then will be out of fashion the next. I like *practical* clothing that still looks good. Though looks aren't a priority. Especially on lab days. Jeans and t-shirts no matter what on lab days. And tennis shoes. And I think glasses can add something to a look, too. So wear them sometimes haha. I'm not a total tomboy. I'm just far more practical than most women in what I wear.

Oh and make up/perfume. You won't see me wearing make up and/or perfume. Especially perfume. LIGHT make up on special occasions.

I also have a different way of thinking than most women. Kind of a different life strategy so to speak. Well one person called me "dude-like" with an opinion I had on something. But anyway - I'm of the "tough it out, figure it out for yourself" mentality where most women I feel will complain and ask for help before they even try and figure it out sometimes. I don't take pain killers unless I'm in *serious* pain or just plain miserable due to pain. You know I'm in serious trouble if I actually take a pain killer - I didn't take one for my wisdom teeth when I got them out (like 12ish years old) and just toughed that pain out. I have a very high pain tolerance. I guess it's kind of like my emotions too. I can tolerate a lot of shit before you'll annoy me, offend me, etc. I'm VERY reserved emotionally. I most likely feel something but I *hate* showing it. And the whole "figure it out for yourself" thing - goes for me saying I don't like to ask for help unless I've exhausted *ALL* possibilities *myself* and can't figure it out.

And of course I play tennis - so I can talk a little sports. I keep track of other sports. Not as intensely as tennis (and equestrian sports) but I can know the basic rules.

And I'm a total science nerd. Not terribly normal for women. And I *hate* romance novels.

I suppose "intellectual aloofness" sure - people ask what the hell I'm thinking sometimes or wonder what I do when I don't talk.

Argumentative? I have quite a strong will.

Us guys on the other hand, are screwed. Getting along with girls for me, is completely foreign. I am trying very hard to mimic socialization customs, body language, etc, in hopes of defeating my 24 year streak of not having a serious girlfriend. I've made good progress, but it's very difficult. Most girls have emotional needs of some kind, which I don't relate with too well and can sometimes not respect. I mean really, why should anyone need constant reassurance? It just reminds me of a child wanting attention from it's parents. Ugh... another topic I'm bitter about I guess.

Well....as for you 24 year streak, I'm pretty damn close at 20 years, maybe I should try harder? But that takes so much effort...and when it comes to socialness I like it to be relatively minimal... And I totally understand that on the emotional needs - and the not respecting the emotional needs sometimes. I'm that way with empathizing with women as I talked about a bit above. And I agree with you on the constant reassurance too....I can get along with guys - but - as an introvert and just not knowing social customs....i dunno...When I'm around them, and hanging out with them (like over spring break I was the last female left and had to hang back with the guys team) is fine...

Regardless of who's got it worse off, the biggest hurdle we all have is meeting people. I don't think INTJs are good at that... at all :/ This is apparently one of the things our personality types has big problems with... or our 'Achilles heel' as one write up put it. In short, I think we're all doomed. Just remember to be doomed with a smile.

haha I like that "Just remember to be doomed with a smile"
I agree with you again though, Guido.

I is stopping haha. I think I'm rambling. But yeah. That's sort of my opinion. Not sure if I went off personality traits or not, but at least how I feel...

[Stopharian]

I've never encountered a female INTJ in the wild.

[thegnat]

What? you mean we're so crazy that our natural habitat is the wild?

[Stopharian]

What? you mean we're so crazy that our natural habitat is the wild?

All creatures reside in the wild, but sometimes they encounter each other in other places.............such as here.


But I guess I just mean that I dont happen to know any female INTJs IRL. To be fair I only know one real live INTP gurl, but I know tons of INFJs and INFPs.

I'd like to meet one of these INTJ women and see how they compare, perhaps examine one at close range.

[OneBadMother]

I know one INTJ female, but though she's my friend/acquaintance, I don't know her all that well. Then again, I only know a grand total of two INTJs in person in general.

Most of the people I know are S. I've known three ENFPs for certain, and I suspect my other friend is also an ENFP. Gah, too many!

[thegnat]

@stopharian: I figured you meant that - but that just set me up so well it was hard not to take....

"examine one at close range" and the "in the wild" hehe - makes me feel like a hmm....what do you call those animals they study? ah specimen haha. Don't worry I'm not taking offense, I'm just rather amused...

baha I'm 2/3 of a devil now with my post count...66....*evil grin*

[gwalchma]

Actually, once someone in my class who was my female team member cried on the phone. I was very forgiving; yeah it seems, I normally get the emotional one's or unstable. Be a man and take it all in.

I have a huge intolerance of people who openly cry when they're in a bad situation. I'm open to listening to their problems on the phone and giving them advice as needed, and if they start to cry a little part way through it's okay. But if they are crying and call me while they're crying I'd just freak out. First of all, the person is not in a state that allows any logical analysis of the problem, so she's just calling me to listen to her cry, and just I don't have the patience for it. I am not built to be anyone's emotional support, I'm built to be an advisor.


lol, I found this very funny. yeah, my basic instinct is take a chill pill; let them open up to you. No work has to be done, but the only thing is that you can slowly help admend the problems, listen to concerns, etc. As you said, I'm more the advisor; sure alot of people got problems. I always wondered, why come to me? Is there is invisible tag on my back says, "Hey, this dude here is quite and will take all your problems away?"

I agree with ya'll on this one. I think they do make those tags! I think I have had one on my back for years! Can't seem to shake it off!
Matter of fact, I feel like I spent my entire weekend listening to 3 of my female friends cry on my shoulder...2 of them literally did cry. Which I am open to for others, just not for myself nor for my son. Rule of my house is - never cry in public, i.e. anyone outside of the home.
Well, I let my dear friends unload, but since I have listened to it for too many times about the same subject; I let them have it and told them exactly what I thought they were doing wrong! All 3 of them...I had had enough! I thought for sure they'd get even more teary-eyed and then give me that look like I just killed their dog! But guess what?! They wanted more! Which for the most part was...stop the merry-go-round you're on and make a freakin' decision!!! One even said no one would have ever dared calling her out on a particular bad habit...but I will and that's why she loves me! Yeah, well, there's alot more where that came from if you want it!!! :)
Of course what I say I say in love and respect for my friends, but when that "big sister" voice comes out you better sit down and take it!

[mind_wander]

As you mentioned, the best rule of thumb is just plain listen. Inside, your thinking please stop crying, "Do you want a lollipop or something to cheer you up?" Having the invisible help me sign is not a bad thing because you are actually contributing to social society. Weird, how I just say that contributing to social society; when INTJ are more introverted and not extroverted. By using your method is basically the same, as mine's. Um let me see, if you make sense and using honesty; they will listen to you. Remember each person is different, so answering each person's differs from person to person. Sux, right; wish all the same answers can work for everyone.

Oh yeah welcome I am also new here.

[Bossy Mom]

I have always gotten along better with men than women. I have only had a few close female friends in my life. Right now I don't even have a close female friend. I have many acquaintances, but not close friends. Most females expect small talk, gossip, shopping trips, etc., and I can't stand it. Just give me a friend who like to talk about important things, like books , current events, and dachshunds.

[cielo market]

*Just give me a friend who like to talk about important things, like books , current events, and dachshunds.

Oh yeah, ya can't forget the dachshunds :)

[Solaris]

Heh. *The joys of being a woman. *I don't dress fashionably, but oh god, I love that show What Not To Wear. *My roommates sit around and happily be judgemental while watching that one.

I hate that show. I mean, did no one ever teach them about comfort or practicality?

Easily my most hated show of all time. I saw part of it once, then never again. It's so....catty and mean really. Leave people the heck alone and let everyone wear what they want. I don't run up to women who actually wear high heels (a very good friend adores them...why, I can't say) and tell them they decrease the respectability of all femaledom. In turn, if I choose to wear some wide leg jeans and a hoodie one day, then leave me alone. Um...I'm done ranting now.

[Aoiluna]

I always feel more comfortable with guys than females, and it has always been that way for as long as I can remember. I played with legos and my brother's toys, watched what he watched and played with his friends. I also started martial arts after he was in it for awhile, and have been doing that for 7 years now.

This, however is different when there are other females around. I feel like I dont know how to act because I am so different from them. very frustrating. it makes me tend to dislike my own gender a whole lot. i do however have 2 female best friends who I treasure a ton because for 5 years I have not been able to come across any other females that i can relate to in any way. its hard to find other females that are on 'your level' i guess you could say. i dont mean that arrogantly in any way, just that we are so different. My two female friends (the only females i really consider good friends) are INFP and ISFP. The only two females I could tell anything to, and I consider myself very lucky to have them. its probably the IP im thinking.

As far as meeting other intjs goes, my infj friend has many intj friends. he says that us intj's are too anti-social to meet each other.

As for girly things, I do keep my hair long and dress like a girl, but I will not ever wear pink, yellow, or pastels unless i have a reason to. I hate being ultra girly except for those special occasions. every now and then (like MAYBE twice a year) its fun and not so pain-in-the-ass. As for emotions, I hate crying in front of people. period. i would never do it for sympathy or attention. i think that crying makes me feel vulnerable and I dont do it often. If I start to tear up from something other than a great powerful movie, i usually tell myself to suck it up and deal with it another way....like solving the problem. I am moody, but i try to cover it up.

I do intimidate people, but ive been told that being a blackbelt can do that to. im not one of those uber feminists on a power trip or anything, in fact im the complete opposite. i understand both point of views on almost everything, and even though im independent and dont need a man to do things for me, Im not going to freak out on them for doing something for me. I will jokingly, however.

Off on a little tangent here (sorry, slight add) but I think that some feminism or independence stems from many things that Ive heard men complain about. I am not saying in any way that this is men's fault nor am i hating on them. just making a point. its common to hear that women are a waste of time and money, gold diggers, etc. I feel that when a guy pays for me ( a friend, not a romantic interest) i need to pay him back, right? actually in relationships i feel the need to pay back. i have to stop myself often with that one. i think i feel this way because i dont want to be labeled as 'the one who mooched off" of people or whatever. im independent. i am doing better with not making a big deal out of it, however.

ok done for now

[coop52]

As a female who didn't really relate well to other females in high school (didn't really relate to males either for that matter), going to an all-female university has been almost like a carnival of horrors. Then I did the somewhat unthinkable- joined a sorority. I thought that it'd be good for me to learn how to deal with people better, plus the one I joined seemed awesome at the time. The sisters when I joined were a fairly mixed bunch of types, but most were pretty laid back and low maintenance. I had a lot of fun hanging out with other people for pretty much the first time in my life. I got really close to some of them; even after they've graduated I've kept in touch. But, things began to change all of a sudden. Now the sorority's made up of loud, materialistic, spontaneous, extroverted party girls. I feel left out, but it's so tiring for me to hang out with them. I don't have that much longer until I graduate, plus I don't want to quit something that I've started (too stubborn to quit!). As far as my classes go, I get along fine with others as long as they're intelligent. There's some that I want to slap when they say something stupid or when their cell phone goes off in class.

On being a girly girl, I used to not be one. I hated pink and refused to to be one of those cute trendy girls. I've since grown to like pink, but I still don't follow trends. I don't see the point in it, plus I'm fairly picky when it comes to clothes and shoes. I wear what I like, not what's in style. I don't wear much makeup either. I hate sharing feelings and crying and stuff like that. I don't cry in front of others.

Someone in high school told me I was intimidating. I can sort of see how he could think that way. I didn't really have friends in high school because I didn't relate to anyone. I had almost nothing in common with my classmates. All the girls cared about boys and style, and all the guys cared about sports. I was the only nerdy kid, but I didn't really care. I thought they were all dumb anyway.

[WavesSootheMe]

<---------I've obviously read the same INTJ description as you, and it completely resonated with me. As did what you wrote below:

It's not that I'm trying to be mean though. In fact, I often think that I'm nicer (deep down) than most people I know. It's just that being rational can sound cold and openly talking about feelings or acting mushy makes me feel extremely uncomfortable. I don't give the appropriate social cues people expect and I hate being chatty. When people come to me for help, rather than just listening or showing empathy, I go into fix-it mode or get annoyed if I think they're whining and not trying hard enough (and I'll tell them so). I think a lot of people just want someone who will listen and show sympathy.

I may be reserved in my sympathy, but that just makes it well-deserved when you get it. I am a kind person with no ill-intentions, but I'm, well, rational about how much and when I express that (whether or not the message gets across is a different story).

Some examples of interactions with girls: My roommate sent me a text not too long ago fishing for some support about something concerning her recent ex-boyfriend. My reply was prefaced with, "This probably won't give you warm fuzzies, but at least you know I'm not bullshitting you." When a girl comes to me crying, I automatically think "Oh god! A girl's crying! What do I do???" I, too, go into fix-it mode, when half the time they've already done what they can to fix it and they just want me to comfort them. It leaves me feeling useless and I don't like that feeling. When I was going through a bad break-up, I hated that my female friends tried to hug me in support. I just wanted to deal with it on my own and get on with my life. A hug does nothing for me except induce crying in front of people when I don't want to cry.

My physical appearance is girlish: slight frame, petite figure, and I do dress the part. I consider it all a part of presenting myself well. However, it didn't come naturally to me either. All of my clothes and hair tricks and make up tricks come from my younger sister. Although I generally initiate/make and keep friendships with more males than females, my interests keep me in fairly female saturated arenas. I was in girl scouts 1-12th grade: I like the challenges of earning badges/awards and I love camping. I joined a sorority (although in many ways it was almost an anti-sorority sorority). It was my attempt to not be a hermit in college. My temperament (esp toward silly traditions) wasn't always appreciated by a house full of women, but there were others like me. I took and left what I pleased, played by my own rules, and in the end was very glad for the experience. Also, I work in education. I've run into several problems with my coworkers. Here's my emo moment: "I feel so misunderstood," *sob* :). The female friends that I've kept are probably all NTs.

I think my main gripe is that these rational characteristics don't mean that I'm devoid of emotion or that I'm not a girl. I am a girl and I do feel things. I just don't express/deal with those aspects of myself in a way that many expect.

[Laurel]

when i was kid, my parents definitely didn't know how to handle me. my mum, who's an ENFJ, actually told people i was autistic once at a party. i also used to get screamed at for remaining calm whenever i was being disciplined (which was usually for disciplining my parents hah)

i used to be a tomboy in looks, not so much in athletics. whenever my mum would take me school clothes shopping, i would go straight to the boys dept. she wasn't happy about it, but occassionally obliged.

as i got older, i could tell that she was questioning my sexuality because i never got 'boy crazy' or really involved in any 'feminine' activites. i took my muslim best friend samia (who's a girl) to my high school prom because her parents weren't going to let her go unless he brother accompanied her--my mum practically had a coronary.

now as an adult, my mum and i get along very well. my personality just was so 'weird' to her, that she thought something was wrong w/ me, but i turned out well enough.

relationships have been a little tough. my current boyfriend is an ENFP and we kinda have one of those 'love to hate you' relationships. at best, we balance one another out but i know it bothers him that i wear the pants in the relationship. i catch him lying to me a lot and when i asked him why he even bothers (i can pretty much recall an entire conversation word for word from memory, there is NO bs'ing me) he replied that 'i don't have feelings' and if he were to open up to me, he would know that 'i have no sense of empathy' and 'wouldn't care if he were upset.' so he lies to try to upset me. that kinda was messed up and neurotic, but i know that is a problem w/ me. i suffer from fortress face and that's not exactly received well in women.

[Gabrielle]

In my case... I changed over the years. In my young childhood my mum dressed me, so I was decked out in frills. As I started to choose my clothes (pre-teen years), I tended to get into black clothes. I still like them... I just use black apparel differently. Black turtleneck with red belt, for instance. Or black blazer with shocking pink shirt underneath.

Now that I'm leaving my teenage years soon, I guess I've become much more feminine. I never cut my hair properly (it's long enough for me to sit on it), but a summer modeling got me very conscious of how I look. My ex-boyfriend also changed me slightly, making me enjoy doing things for him. I baked for him, cooked for him, and I liked doing it. I liked wearing skirts and heels, especially because he was taller than me even when I wore heels (I actually like them, btw).

I wasn't really interested in my classmates period. All my interests were slightly older than me by about two years. I didn't get along with them very well... I had a large mouth and I was caustic. Now I'm a little better, though.

[Paul V]

I have just one quick question for you, girls:

Where on Earth are you hiding?

(Just joking here, not expecting a real answer)

[Bossy Mom]

I haven't known many other INTJ females except one where I work. Sometimes I can stand her. She can be warm and giving, but also stubborn and a taskmaster. I sometimes wonder if others see me that way. I know that when we were identified as INTJs in a seminar, neither of us could tolerate the other types.

[Headstrong]

I also have a different way of thinking than most women. Kind of a different life strategy so to speak. Well one person called me "dude-like" with an opinion I had on something. But anyway - I'm of the "tough it out, figure it out for yourself" mentality where most women I feel will complain and ask for help before they even try and figure it out sometimes. I don't take pain killers unless I'm in *serious* pain or just plain miserable due to pain. You know I'm in serious trouble if I actually take a pain killer - I didn't take one for my wisdom teeth when I got them out (like 12ish years old) and just toughed that pain out. I have a very high pain tolerance. I guess it's kind of like my emotions too. I can tolerate a lot of shit before you'll annoy me, offend me, etc. I'm VERY reserved emotionally. I most likely feel something but I *hate* showing it. And the whole "figure it out for yourself" thing - goes for me saying I don't like to ask for help unless I've exhausted *ALL* possibilities *myself* and can't figure it out.


I am the exact same way. My mother is an ESFJ I believe and she does not understand why I do not ask for help or take pain medications. It's just my way of being stubborn and strong. I hate asking for help, but if I'm really desparate, I will. As for the pain, the less dependent I am on pain medications the better. INTJs? Dependent? I think not.


when i was kid, my parents definitely didn't know how to handle me. my mum, who's an ENFJ, actually told people i was autistic once at a party. i also used to get screamed at for remaining calm whenever i was being disciplined (which was usually for disciplining my parents hah)

i used to be a tomboy in looks, not so much in athletics. whenever my mum would take me school clothes shopping, i would go straight to the boys dept. she wasn't happy about it, but occassionally obliged.

as i got older, i could tell that she was questioning my sexuality because i never got 'boy crazy' or really involved in any 'feminine' activites. i took my muslim best friend samia (who's a girl) to my high school prom because her parents weren't going to let her go unless he brother accompanied her--my mum practically had a coronary.

now as an adult, my mum and i get along very well. my personality just was so 'weird' to her, that she thought something was wrong w/ me, but i turned out well enough.

relationships have been a little tough. my current boyfriend is an ENFP and we kinda have one of those 'love to hate you' relationships. at best, we balance one another out but i know it bothers him that i wear the pants in the relationship. i catch him lying to me a lot and when i asked him why he even bothers (i can pretty much recall an entire conversation word for word from memory, there is NO bs'ing me) he replied that 'i don't have feelings' and if he were to open up to me, he would know that 'i have no sense of empathy' and 'wouldn't care if he were upset.' so he lies to try to upset me. that kinda was messed up and neurotic, but i know that is a problem w/ me. i suffer from fortress face and that's not exactly received well in women.

My mother will stand in the corner out of sight from my dad while him and I are having an argument and whisper "SAY SOMETHING!!!! SAY SOMETHING!!!!!" She doesn't get that I need to take in what he's saying first, let him get it all out, and then say what I need to say. Both of them think I'm just ignoring what is being said and shrug it off. That is the farthest from the truth. I guess it's partly due to the blank stare I give.

I love the boys department...still do. I'm also a sucker for athletic wear. Boys have always had better stuff. I remember going to Burger King or McDonalds and being extremely envious of the boys' meal toys. I was stuck with the stupid barbies. >.<

My mom has questioned my sexuality. More so, it has been my friends. They've even asked if I was asexual! Coming from a close friend who was completely serious, I found it incredibly insulting.

As for boyfriends, I've always worn the pants. They have known it, too. I'm such a control freak when it comes to the physical department. Being unemotional doesn't help.

[Greeny]

I do have a few female friends, although have found it easier to have male friends. That has presented the problem of other females seeing me as a threat if Iam friendly to thier husband.They can't imagine that I can be just a friend! Aghhh!!! It also has been a problem that if I'am interested in a single male friend he see me as "just a friend". Needless to say Iam 55 and single.
My female friends do tend to turn to me if they need information or help to seperate emotion from fact. I have to laugh at times as they will ask me 1st and seem to think Iam some sort of font of all knowledge.

[The Rose]

I don't know if I know another INTJ female, though there's a gal in my Bible study who I figured out so far is INxJ. She could turn out to be T, but I think she's F. She uses a sophisticated vocabulary, and many INFJs I have seen online are like that - and deeply intelligent. So I don't know yet. But she wears slacks and a sweatshirt, like I do most of the time.

I wear a dress sometimes because I know in our society it is respected for certain occasions. I don't like wearing a dress and letting my legs get freezing cold, but I do it if I need to.

[BlackHawk]

I have never met another INTJ. Period. My best friend is an xNxJ . . . really borderline on a lot of things.

[HeterodoxRobot]

I love talking about ideas.
I hate talking about people.
A person not interested in people, that's funny.

[Firelie]

A person not interested in people, that's funny.

And now you have to back that up with why you think it's funny. :)

[The Rose]

And now you have to back that up with why you think it's funny. :)I think he means it's ironic, since I am a person.
But it reveals the true plight of the INTJ.

An ENFP can't possibly imagine not being interested in people.
And I can't possibly imagine an ENFP being willing to hurt my feelings that way.
Yet there he is.

Ah. She's a girl. Well maybe that explains it.

[GOD]

I think the T/F divide is essentially sexist and wrong as by implication is deems women not to have the T function because of the emphasis on detecting the F function.

[amei]

As an INTJ female, I have realized how fortunate I am to have another INTJ female as a friend. We can talk about "girly" topics like her relationship with her boyfriend in very non-girly ways, i.e. very logically and rationally without a big emphasis on emotions.
We also both share a hatred for the kind of girls who spend hours getting ready in the morning, constantly flirt, are afraid of getting sweaty playing sports, obsess over boys, and do all sorts of other stupid typical girl behavior.
I just hope I'm as lucky as her and find as great a boyfriend as she has who actually appreciates her intelligence, strength, and independence.

[dnatalia]

Hi everyone! I'm new to this board, but I wanted to introduce myself to my fellow INTJ females.

I wanted to jump in on this discussion about male vs. female friends, because it seems that I've had a very different experience than most of you. I've only ever had female friends, at least ones that I consider close. I'm acquainted with enough guys, but somehow I can't be comfortable enough around them to become close friends. One of my best friends is an ENTJ (female) and we just get each other, so that's nice. We can talk about most anything. My other close friends seem to serve very specific functions--there's my talk-about-school friend (she's a graduate student too and we bitch about it) and my talk-about-guys-and-sex-and-emotional-stuff friend (she's definitely an ExFx). I also get along really well with my mom (she's also an ExFx, I think).

Reading all your posts makes me think that I might really have something to gain from making a few male friends.

[Rei]

A person not interested in people, that's funny.

I don't get why that's funny.
That's what defines introversion...

[The Rose]

I don't get why that's funny.
That's what defines introversion...I think it was meant to be an insult.

[Tarrick]

Someone's insult female INTJs?! :scared:

Time to duck and cover! Everyone! DEFCON 2! Get in the choppa!

[WavesSootheMe]

I don't take pain killers unless I'm in *serious* pain or just plain miserable due to pain. You know I'm in serious trouble if I actually take a pain killer - I didn't take one for my wisdom teeth when I got them out (like 12ish years old) and just toughed that pain out. I have a very high pain tolerance. I guess it's kind of like my emotions too. I can tolerate a lot of shit before you'll annoy me, offend me, etc. I'm VERY reserved emotionally. I most likely feel something but I *hate* showing it. And the whole "figure it out for yourself" thing - goes for me saying I don't like to ask for help unless I've exhausted *ALL* possibilities *myself* and can't figure it out.

Wow, how many times have I uttered those exact words about, not just pain killers, but all medicine. It is a more typical "guy-like" attitude to just "tough it out." I find it interesting how you related it to your emotional tolerance. I have also uttered similar phrases about it taking a lot to piss me off and not asking for help until I'm sure that I can't do it on my own (no damsel in distress act here), but I've never made the connection that you did. Perhaps medicine can be likened to help that we'll only take when absolutely necessary. I've always rationalized my hesitation to take medicine by the unwanted side effects I've experienced in the past and the desire to not build up a tolerance so that the medicine will be there when I really need it.

[feralfae]

Oh, this is a good thread!
I am older and was married to a chap who was a total extroverted feeling person, and I always felt that I was the rational one -- I was! Fortunately, for while we had the roles for each of us fairly well worked out - he was the emotional one and I was the reasoning one who cleaned up all the messes and did all the rescuing. Then, I really got tired of carrying all the weight for all the emotional needs he had, when I barely even knew I had emotional needs of my own. Of course.

Now, I have been with another INTJ/P for a few years, and we are rational, loving, fun, quiet, have great "discussions" on a variety of subjects, learn a lot from each other, give each other a LOT of space and enjoy our time when we are doing things together, and he is decidedly more I and T than am I, so I feel very feminine in this relationship. Also, he does not need me to fill up all of his emotional neediness all the time. We just do a nice comfortable job of taking care of each other's emotional needs without any big hysterics.

I find myself drawn more to discussions men are having than those of women. I, too, find gossip and girl talk boring.

I think once we know who we are as individuals, it is easier to figure out what we want in our friends and partners. It took me a long time to realize I am much more comfortable and happy with someone more like I am, rather than opposite from me, which might be interesting for a while, but gets very wearing.

I love dressing up and being lovely when we go somewhere. Otherwise, I am pretty much a tomboy. Fortunately, I clean up okay.

[mind_wander]

Someone's insult female INTJs?! :scared:

Time to duck and cover! Everyone! DEFCON 2! Get in the choppa!
lol, You mean Defcon 1! Quickly find the emergency exits or hold on tight with your compatible personality partner [If there is any].

[INTJgal]

Oh, this is a good thread!
I am older and was married to a chap who was a total extroverted feeling person, and I always felt that I was the rational one -- I was! Fortunately, for while we had the roles for each of us fairly well worked out - he was the emotional one and I was the reasoning one who cleaned up all the messes and did all the rescuing. Then, I really got tired of carrying all the weight for all the emotional needs he had, when I barely even knew I had emotional needs of my own. Of course.

Now, I have been with another INTJ/P for a few years, and we are rational, loving, fun, quiet, have great "discussions" on a variety of subjects, learn a lot from each other, give each other a LOT of space and enjoy our time when we are doing things together, and he is decidedly more I and T than am I, so I feel very feminine in this relationship. Also, he does not need me to fill up all of his emotional neediness all the time. We just do a nice comfortable job of taking care of each other's emotional needs without any big hysterics.

I find myself drawn more to discussions men are having than those of women. I, too, find gossip and girl talk boring.

I think once we know who we are as individuals, it is easier to figure out what we want in our friends and partners. It took me a long time to realize I am much more comfortable and happy with someone more like I am, rather than opposite from me, which might be interesting for a while, but gets very wearing.

I love dressing up and being lovely when we go somewhere. Otherwise, I am pretty much a tomboy. Fortunately, I clean up okay.

you know there's no such thing as an INTx, right?
Have you studied the cognitive functions? The differences between INTJ and INTP are huge. There's such thing as INxJ, or IxTP, but no INTx.

[The Rose]

you know there's no such thing as an INTx, right?
Have you studied the cognitive functions? The differences between INTJ and INTP are huge. There's such thing as INxJ, or IxTP, but no INTx.When someone puts in an "x" it can also mean that they aren't sure yet if they are a J or a P.

Not everyone knows about the cognitive functions. I have been a fan of MBTI for over 15 years and I had never heard of it until I started reading on the forums a few months ago. Now that I have heard of them and recognize the names, it will take me a very long time before I feel like I actually believe I can recognize a function's behavior in myself or someone else.

[INTJgal]

When someone puts in an "x" it can also mean that they aren't sure yet if they are a J or a P.


That's why I was asking if you knew about the cognitive functions, so that if you weren't aware you could discover your type. Because if someone is uncertain whether they're INTJ or INTP it means they really don't understand a lot of core MBTI stuff.

[Tarrick]

you know there's no such thing as an INTx, right?
Have you studied the cognitive functions? The differences between INTJ and INTP are huge. There's such thing as INxJ, or IxTP, but no INTx.

The differences between INTPs and INTJs are big in some respects and small in others, same with all types. Some people are fairly balanced in J/P category, whereas some people are balanced in the T/F category and so on. Also the differences can depend on how the person applies him/herself to something and which functions they rely on.

[Rohsiph]

The differences between INTPs and INTJs are big in some respects and small in others, same with all types. Some people are fairly balanced in J/P category, whereas some people are balanced in the T/F category and so on. Also the differences can depend on how the person applies him/herself to something and which functions they rely on.

Generally, yes.

Specifically, the functions are topsy-turvey--resulting in fundamentally huge differences.

Ni works a lot differently than Ti, and Te is a much different way of approaching the world than is Ne.

It's being specific vs. categorizing in order to simplify . . . both offer insights. I prefer cutting into the heart of things, and believe simplification will often lead to problems if carried on in favor of specificity.

Apologies for carrying this tangent even further from the original topic, but I wanted to clarify ;)

[Tarrick]

I know that they work very differently, but an INTJ may utilize their Te a lot more then their Ni, and thus have more in common with a INTP that uses Ti a lot. That's what I was saying.

[xanodel]

Well, since I'm another female INTJ, I can relate quite a bit to the OP and pretty much what other people have said. I generally get along better with guys than with girls, whether as friends or casual acquaintances, however I also lucked out in that I've found other NT girls (and they are my closest female friends).

Maybe there's only one bit of difference. I don't like people coming to me and crying about stuff either, but I've learned to accept it. There's got to be a weird sign posted on my back that says, "Free therapist" which I've never gotten rid of. It's a bit strange at times, since I've had perfect strangers come up to me and tell me stuff that I think, are probably secrets. Other than the fact, to a couple of my friends, I'm the online/phoneline therapist. I suppose the only way I've been able to make sense of emotions, and why sometimes people (females included here) do the stupid things they do, is to try to dissect their minds, figure out their thinking pattern and fit everything into their thinking pattern, so it make some sort of twisted logic sense. (it doesn't, but hey I try) They seem to appreciate the fact I try to get in their brain and actually understand them (even if I don't), which kind of softens up my bluntness. That's the only trick I know of when it comes to dealing with people.

[Dr. Haight]

To everyone else, how do you perceive INTJ females? They're hot!

Well. . . one of them is, anyway.

EDIT: That was an awesome first post.

[mind_wander]

Maybe there's only one bit of difference. I don't like people coming to me and crying about stuff either, but I've learned to accept it. There's got to be a weird sign posted on my back that says, "Free therapist" which I've never gotten rid of. It's a bit strange at times, since I've had perfect strangers come up to me and tell me stuff that I think, are probably secrets. Other than the fact, to a couple of my friends, I'm the online/phoneline therapist. I suppose the only way I've been able to make sense of emotions, and why sometimes people (females included here) do the stupid things they do, is to try to dissect their minds, figure out their thinking pattern and fit everything into their thinking pattern, so it make some sort of twisted logic sense. (it doesn't, but hey I try) They seem to appreciate the fact I try to get in their brain and actually understand them (even if I don't), which kind of softens up my bluntness. That's the only trick I know of when it comes to dealing with people.

I am an INTJ male, I get the same thing; you are not alone.

[Jezebel]

They're hot!

Well. . . one of them is, anyway.

EDIT: That was an awesome first post.
Hmm... I suspect you may be biased. :suspicious:

[feralfae]

you know there's no such thing as an INTx, right?
Have you studied the cognitive functions? The differences between INTJ and INTP are huge. There's such thing as INxJ, or IxTP, but no INTx.

Thank you, yes, I understand you comment, but do not fully comprehend your perception of the practically absolute dichotomy between J and P. Several years ago, I was actually studied by a group of Harvard psychologists because of my unique learning style ~~ and unique problem-solving style as well. Besides being an INTJ or INTP, both of which are unique, I am also in Intertel and a mathematician as well as a studio artist. I divide my time fairly equally among being a writer, ceramic artist, applied and theoretical mathematician, and outdoor enthusiast. I have also done quite a bit of research and work with and for ETS on identification of giftedness in children and on the unique problem-solving and perception set of skills and cognitions among gifted individuals. Yet, I know I have much to learn in many areas of knowledge, and thus thank you for pointing out your personal perception of a perceived and published common standard of differentiation for P and J cognition functions.

[INTJgal]

Well, the Temperament argument (grouping types as SJ, SP, NF, NT) would argue that all NTs are motivated by the need to be seen as a genius, driven by competency, etc. so I think the motivations would be very similar...

but all a J or P label in your 4 letter type stands for is the orientation of the other three letters (all of which give meaningful information to "who you are").

J or P simply orients the other 3 either inwardly or outwardly.

So the INTJ would have their INT oriented by the J function, making them dominant Ni, secondary Te, and tertiary Fi.

The INTP would have their INT oriented by the P function, making them Ti, Ne, Si (? i think this is how the introverted P order goes? the 1st 2 are right).

Meaning, the internal world, where the introvert "lives" is immeasurably different. Ni and Ti are totally different ways of "being". and Te and Ne are entirely different ways of interacting with the outer world.

So, while the two INTx types may have similar motivations, they are wired entirely differently.


However, the INFJ is not wired that differently than the INTJ. Their internal world is quite similar.

Just like the INTP is very similar to the ISTP in their introverted world.

The INTJ and INTP have very little in common with their internal worlds and their external worlds.

Although, of course, they are both NT motivated, and introverted people. This is what I understand to be their only similarities. Which, from interacting with my two INTP friends, is very different than myself and my INTJ friend.

[feralfae]

Of course some of might state, rather, that we motivated by the need to be acknowledged as the genius we are. :-)
Yes, I understand about the orientation as well. I find that my orientation changes diametrically depending on what part of my life I am living, not to imply that I am broadly multi-faceted nor different from several other people whom I know, because I am not: we are quite similar, actually.
I must think more on this, and I thank you again for providing more information on the distinctions perceived between P and J. Perhaps the fact that I wish to arrive at my own independent conclusion concerning this particular state of being and its variables plants me firmly in one camp or the other. :-)

[The Rose]

Of course some of might state, rather, that we motivated by the need to be acknowledged as the genius we are. :-)
Yes, I understand about the orientation as well. I find that my orientation changes diametrically depending on what part of my life I am living, not to imply that I am broadly multi-faceted nor different from several other people whom I know, because I am not: we are quite similar, actually.
I must think more on this, and I thank you again for providing more information on the distinctions perceived between P and J. Perhaps the fact that I wish to arrive at my own independent conclusion concerning this particular state of being and its variables plants me firmly in one camp or the other. :-)You can learn more about it here:
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.*******.html

[rwyatt365]

I've moved the "shopping-related" posts to this thread (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.).

[Jenny Penny]

I definitely have trouble relating to most females. People seem put off or uncomfortable around me... I know it's because I always walk around with a very serious look on my face. There's an ESFJ secretary who sits across from me at work, who is very friendly to everyone else around here, except me! I have to admit, it makes me mad and sort of hurts my feelings. She is older, so she is probably offended by my "rebellious, non-feminine" behavior. After all, she goes home every night and cooks and cleans for her husband, who just sits there like a bump on a log watching sports. Once I feel comfortable that a female isn't going to get catty with me, I can let my guard down and be myself. Also, it seems most females prefer to talk about issues that don't interest me at all. Anyway, I usually can't make female friends in a purely social situation (although I would like to), unless the females are really outwardly nice and accepting. Otherwise, I get paranoid they don't like me, and I just want to escape. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I get along best with my sister (INTJ) and a female friend (ISTJ) who are really smart, serious girls and both great listeners.

[The Rose]

I definitely have trouble relating to most females. People seem put off or uncomfortable around me... I know it's because I always walk around with a very serious look on my face. There's an ESFJ secretary who sits across from me at work, who is very friendly to everyone else around here, except me! I have to admit, it makes me mad and sort of hurts my feelings. She is older, so she is probably offended by my "rebellious, non-feminine" behavior. After all, she goes home every night and cooks and cleans for her husband, who just sits there like a bump on a log watching sports. Once I feel comfortable that a female isn't going to get catty with me, I can let my guard down and be myself. Also, it seems most females prefer to talk about issues that don't interest me at all. Anyway, I usually can't make female friends in a purely social situation (although I would like to), unless the females are really outwardly nice and accepting. Otherwise, I get paranoid they don't like me, and I just want to escape. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I get along best with my sister (INTJ) and a female friend (ISTJ) who are really smart, serious girls and both great listeners.
I'm not sure about this, but I have an ESFJ sister-in-law and have met other ESFJ women. For the most part they are mostly very friendly and helpful. What you see is what you get. I'm sure she would talk to you if you initiated the conversation. They tend to avoid conflict and perhaps she has sensed something from you. I don't know.

You don't want to develop a deep friendship with her, and casual conversation is usually annoying to an INTJ, but I think you'd like her if you got to know her a little bit.

If it's making you feel bad that she doesn't talk to you, then start a conversation with her.
If you need help with something or have a question about something, I'm sure she will bend over backwards to help you.
If you are having a cooking or cleaning problem, I'm sure she will be a wealth of advice.

[kimba]

Are INTJ guys really interested in INTJ girls - - - like actually for a relationship not just as a discussion partner? If so, I think that is great. How would you suggest a girl pursue this?

I'm breaking out of this shell - I'm going for it - I WANT A RELATIONSHIP!!! I want to be able to be who I am - and have someone love me.

I want someone who will bring me a glass of OJ when I'm not feeling well. Someone who will stop for milk on the way home (even when it's raining). Someone to talk with and contemplate things with. An interesting, hardworking, good thinking guy! I am ready to stop saying I am content alone. (I was for years). I'm ready to take a chance. Of course I will be analyzing the experience every step of the way, but feel I want to add some meaning to my life. Yes my life is meaningful - but in a different way.

I'm ready for a change. . . . Now that I've put it out there . . . what if the opportunity doesn't come along? (fear). Is there anything I can do to find a special someone.

[Paul V]

Are INTJ guys really interested in INTJ girls - - - like actually for a relationship not just as a discussion partner? If so, I think that is great. How would you suggest a girl pursue this?

I'm breaking out of this shell - I'm going for it - I WANT A RELATIONSHIP!!! I want to be able to be who I am - and have someone love me.

I want someone who will bring me a glass of OJ when I'm not feeling well. Someone who will stop for milk on the way home (even when it's raining). Someone to talk with and contemplate things with. An interesting, hardworking, good thinking guy! I am ready to stop saying I am content alone. (I was for years). I'm ready to take a chance. Of course I will be analyzing the experience every step of the way, but feel I want to add some meaning to my life. Yes my life is meaningful - but in a different way.

I'm ready for a change. . . . Now that I've put it out there . . . what if the opportunity doesn't come along? (fear). Is there anything I can do to find a special someone.

I have to admit I used to think the same way. But after doing some observation on the subject, I had to ask myself the question: "Is there really someone that's worth the suffering that comes from relationships?" Thinking that it will always be that rosy "just in love" state is foolish. Thinking that they will always be good is foolish. Wouldn't it be preferable to just stay out of that pit of snakes? I myself haven't been able to answer this myself, but I believe it is my duty as an INTJ to present you with all the options.





Paul V added to this post, 4 minutes and 36 seconds later...

I don't like people coming to me and crying about stuff either, but I've learned to accept it. There's got to be a weird sign posted on my back that says, "Free therapist" which I've never gotten rid of. It's a bit strange at times, since I've had perfect strangers come up to me and tell me stuff that I think, are probably secrets. Other than the fact, to a couple of my friends, I'm the online/phoneline therapist. I suppose the only way I've been able to make sense of emotions, and why sometimes people (females included here) do the stupid things they do, is to try to dissect their minds, figure out their thinking pattern and fit everything into their thinking pattern, so it make some sort of twisted logic sense. (it doesn't, but hey I try) They seem to appreciate the fact I try to get in their brain and actually understand them (even if I don't), which kind of softens up my bluntness. That's the only trick I know of when it comes to dealing with people.

This like looking at a mirror. My family insisted I would make an awesome psychiatrist/psychologist, and my best friend told me it was a pity I wasn't a religious person, because I had all the right qualifications to become a priest.

I have had to become a bitch with my classmates, because otherwise they wouldn't leave me alone with their whining. Usually, I don't mind being an advisor, but it becomes tiring to pretend you are interested in what a two-faced backstabbing traitor has to say to you.

[PortInStorm]

Be careful... a partner is a separate person who is completely uncontrollable. Except for companionship and possibly intimacy (physical, emotional, spiritual, but at times they won't be able to offer that either), we have no right to enter a relationship and expect them to do anything for us. Doing that will result in disappointment and resentment on your end. Don't expect fulfillment/meaning, help, constant support, etc. Imagine how you'd feel if (and I'm thinking you're female) someone posted they wanted someone who would cook, clean, do laundry for them, and mother them. They have their own lives to deal with that contain more issues than just us - BUT the companionship is great (as long as you pick a good one and they're more of a pain then a pleasure), and they can be strong in your weak areas. I'm not trying to pick on you (sorry if it comes across that way), but letting you know that some of the things you're looking for don't automatically characterize even a good relationship (I'm speaking from my experience in what I think is a good one- 8 years almost).

I think that's one reason everyone is so hooked on "compatibility"- I was. Perhaps everyone wants compatibility because that correct match should bring them the scintillating conversation, the intimacy, the meaning of a great relationship- but is that what a great relationship is? I wonder if we're asking too much. Even if we're asking instead more "grounded" criteria that they challenge us, make us better people, yada yada, it's like we're asking another person to somehow benefit or serve us for the rest of our lives. Is that fair- don't they have dreams themselves that don't have anything to do with us? Perhaps I'm now imagining marriage as two committed people walking together towards their goals (giving and taking in turns if need be), helping each other when they can, yet being prepared to make their own dreams come true so the other can do the same.





2ndtimestudent added to this post, 11 minutes and 45 seconds later...

Are INTJ guys really interested in INTJ girls - - - like actually for a relationship not just as a discussion partner? If so, I think that is great. How would you suggest a girl pursue this?

I'm breaking out of this shell - I'm going for it - I WANT A RELATIONSHIP!!! I want to be able to be who I am - and have someone love me.

I want someone who will bring me a glass of OJ when I'm not feeling well. Someone who will stop for milk on the way home (even when it's raining). Someone to talk with and contemplate things with. An interesting, hardworking, good thinking guy! I am ready to stop saying I am content alone. (I was for years). I'm ready to take a chance. Of course I will be analyzing the experience every step of the way, but feel I want to add some meaning to my life. Yes my life is meaningful - but in a different way.

I'm ready for a change. . . . Now that I've put it out there . . . what if the opportunity doesn't come along? (fear). Is there anything I can do to find a special someone.
Sorry, one more thing. Everyone wants those things you mentioned, and they're not bad to desire. But don't rule someone out because they don't give you that, don't think they can only come in a marriage, and if you get those things in a partner, don't expect it all the time or forever. And look at the other types too... every type can be a good partner when you don't expecting the constant intimacy/resonance that fellow NTs supposedly provide (and as I said, I don't think anyone can give that). If you make a decision based on what probably doesn't change (what would make a good business partner? Truthfulness, good relationship skill, good sense, good money management) instead of what certainly does (interests, sexual chemistry, looks, hey, even the mind), I don't think type matters since every partner will have flaws that drive you nuts.





2ndtimestudent added to this post, 6 minutes and 58 seconds later...

Thank you, yes, I understand you comment, but do not fully comprehend your perception of the practically absolute dichotomy between J and P. Several years ago, I was actually studied by a group of Harvard psychologists because of my unique learning style ~~ and unique problem-solving style as well. Besides being an INTJ or INTP, both of which are unique, I am also in Intertel and a mathematician as well as a studio artist. I divide my time fairly equally among being a writer, ceramic artist, applied and theoretical mathematician, and outdoor enthusiast. I have also done quite a bit of research and work with and for ETS on identification of giftedness in children and on the unique problem-solving and perception set of skills and cognitions among gifted individuals. Yet, I know I have much to learn in many areas of knowledge, and thus thank you for pointing out your personal perception of a perceived and published common standard of differentiation for P and J cognition functions.
See I can believe a unique set of problem-solving abilities for gifted kids since they all have a higher "g" (or overall intell) in common, but I'm not sure why people are so stunned that "logical" people could also be skilled in the arts. Perhaps it's the whole "right brain" "left brain" fiasco or a sense of unfairness :-) (What? They have to have a weakness for all that greatness!). But all the subskill grouping of "g" are positively correlated. And I'm not saying this as a "smart" person- I do not find myself the quickest or most original even in my class.

[The Ghost Agent]

Are INTJ guys really interested in INTJ girls - - - like actually for a relationship not just as a discussion partner? If so, I think that is great. How would you suggest a girl pursue this?

I'm breaking out of this shell - I'm going for it - I WANT A RELATIONSHIP!!! I want to be able to be who I am - and have someone love me.

I want someone who will bring me a glass of OJ when I'm not feeling well. Someone who will stop for milk on the way home (even when it's raining). Someone to talk with and contemplate things with. An interesting, hardworking, good thinking guy! I am ready to stop saying I am content alone. (I was for years). I'm ready to take a chance. Of course I will be analyzing the experience every step of the way, but feel I want to add some meaning to my life. Yes my life is meaningful - but in a different way.

I'm ready for a change. . . . Now that I've put it out there . . . what if the opportunity doesn't come along? (fear). Is there anything I can do to find a special someone.

The question of intensity and motivation is answered, but are you ready for a relationship? I'm assuming you've been in very few or perhaps, none at all even? Because from the sounds of it, it would appear that you lack experience with any relationship and never really gave it a proper chance. Not to mention the part where you finally come out of the "shell" and asking for suggestions in how one actually start a relationship. Many of the choices of wording in your post points heavily towards inexperience with any relationship. That is not to degrade you, but if that is true, then you have a long way to go.

The question of whether you are ready is even more critical should my observations and hypothesis be true. Beyond wanting someone to love you in return and do all the little things that some would consider to be "gushy love", do you know the steps and process it takes for a relationship to work? The problem with almost all INTJs is its inability to properly express itself at the start, but once a relationship does start, the emotions/F is probably more concentrated and intensive than any other type. That turns some INTJs off for fear of losing their rationality and giving in all too completely into their emotions, no longer maintaining full "control". Not only do you not need the motivation to start a relationship, but a plan and goal in which to achieve it and keep it alive. I've used this stepped process as an explanation in other forums and other people, so here it is.

Confidence - Required for any starting relationship. The "Game", ladder theory, etc. applies very differently to females. PARTICULARLY female INTJs which may tend to intimidate and turn off males which simply don't understand. You will have to turn off your I and be active socially. Social gathering places or conferences/clubs of like interests can be a start. You won't get anywhere without action, so use that J and make it happen!

Stability - Stability ranges in all variables. Mental (rational and not one prone to make random or irresponsible decisions), emotional (able to provide emotional support, understanding, and love), physical (healthy, takes care of themselves, and doesn't do anything that'll harm you and themselves on purpose), financial (job at least, house? financial future? his goals?), etc. This also serves as a precursor to trust and only to have it strengthened later by communication. Without the basic variables satisfied, it is very hard to maintain a relationship. I would highly advise not starting a relationship when someone is unstable in two or more of the categories listed. Usually I advise against starting it in any instability.

Communication - Crucial to continue building the trust factor and intimacy in a relationship. Without a completely opened channel of communication with one another, you can very well give up on the whole relationship. Trust requires communication and vice versa, so if it feels circular in logic, that's because it is. Communication is very crucial to developing intimacy in the later stages of a relationship when the "infatuation", "lusting", or the so called "fiery start" stage simmers down.

Intimacy - The final part of the process. No doubt this is where all the physical aspects of the relationship takes place, but it does not always have to be sexualized. Small favors such as the ones you've described, getting you a cup of OJ, doing special things that adds up over time. Such as a poem, card, a single rose left/delivered to your work place at a random time, rather than waiting for the typical holiday occasions. Intimacy can also be rekindled through a completely opened channel of communication, if you're both comfortable you should be able to express your desires, fantasies, wants, etc. If you can do that, you can satisfy one another at an unprecedented level over couples who are shy and rather close minded about the relationship's sexuality.

That about sums up the progressing stages, but the most important factor is your acceptance of failure. Not all relationships will start and become perfect from the get go. That's just Hollywood and fairy tales. Expecting your first or any immediate relationship to work right away, is simply too high of an expectation and you will certainly be disappointed. Perhaps the standards are too high? Someone can think of you as too low of a standard as well! A relationship is not just the merging of a couple's strengths and interests, but each other accepting the other's faults and still being able to look pass it.

And lets see... I think I just rushed everything relationship in a single sitting, but I've touched on the more overall/generalized setting so... I think I've covered mostly what you need to know.

[kimba]

I didn't mean to imply that the relationship would be one way, "Get me my OJ" "Bring me my slippers." I would like to have someone to support and encourage. A mutual caring about each other. I'm not thinking it will be wonderful all the time. I'm just willing to try something different then what I've been doing (living solo). Will it be worth it? I don't know on this side of it, but I am at the point where 'solitary' isn't working for me anymore. I want to share my life with someone. There are a few threads on here where people are saying, for them it was worth it. It's scary, but I'm willing to take a couple of steps, I just don't know what direction to walk in to meet good men.





kimba added to this post, 3 minutes and 22 seconds later...

By the way, your thoughts were very helpful. Confidence, Stability, Communication, etc. Action!! Thanks for putting your time into the well thought out response.

[Paul V]

I didn't mean to imply that the relationship would be one way, "Get me my OJ" "Bring me my slippers." I would like to have someone to support and encourage. A mutual caring about each other. I'm not thinking it will be wonderful all the time. I'm just willing to try something different then what I've been doing (living solo). Will it be worth it? I don't know on this side of it, but I am at the point where 'solitary' isn't working for me anymore. I want to share my life with someone. There are a few threads on here where people are saying, for them it was worth it. It's scary, but I'm willing to take a couple of steps, I just don't know what direction to walk in to meet good men.





kimba added to this post, 3 minutes and 22 seconds later...

By the way, your thoughts were very helpful. Confidence, Stability, Communication, etc. Action!! Thanks for putting your time into the well thought out response.

I advise you to craft a list of what you're looking for and be very, very picky. People can fake those things very well, and you shouldn't allow anyone in just because they're too good to be true. Most of the times, they are neither.

[Lucid]

The question of intensity and motivation is answered, but are you ready for a relationship? I'm assuming you've been in very few or perhaps, none at all even? Because from the sounds of it, it would appear that you lack experience with any relationship and never really gave it a proper chance. Not to mention the part where you finally come out of the "shell" and asking for suggestions in how one actually start a relationship. Many of the choices of wording in your post points heavily towards inexperience with any relationship. That is not to degrade you, but if that is true, then you have a long way to go.

The question of whether you are ready is even more critical should my observations and hypothesis be true. Beyond wanting someone to love you in return and do all the little things that some would consider to be "gushy love", do you know the steps and process it takes for a relationship to work? The problem with almost all INTJs is its inability to properly express itself at the start, but once a relationship does start, the emotions/F is probably more concentrated and intensive than any other type. That turns some INTJs off for fear of losing their rationality and giving in all too completely into their emotions, no longer maintaining full "control". Not only do you not need the motivation to start a relationship, but a plan and goal in which to achieve it and keep it alive. I've used this stepped process as an explanation in other forums and other people, so here it is.

The best way to learn about relationships is to have a few. If she has decided that she wants one, then she's ready to have one. It may not be the relationship... but it is a step in the learning process and that she'll probably get more out of than sitting in her apartment making lists and reading posts by people explaining relationships to her.
Not that these things are detrimental to the process, just that IMO, the best way to learn about relationships is through experience and then reflection on that experience.

[Paul V]

The best way to learn about relationships is to have a few. If she has decided that she wants one, then she's ready to have one. It may not be the relationship... but it is a step in the learning process and that she'll probably get more out of than sitting in her apartment making lists and reading posts by people explaining relationships to her.
Not that these things are detrimental to the process, just that IMO, the best way to learn about relationships is through experience and then reflection on that experience.

I disagree. That's not a piece of advice you can throw around without taking into consideration the personal