Carl Jung an INTJ?

[GOD]

Well,

He was introverted. Obviously a great thinker and by virtue of his creativity almost certainly intuitive.

The only question is whether he was Perceiving or Judging. Given the exact two terms are actually his constructs.... then..

I'd say INTJ.. Too absolutely insightful .

My type of thinker…. I’m thinking about buying his type book, if I can find it tomorrow…
[smiley=scholar.gif] Only need to read a few Psych books and I'll have one of those degrees...

[lucki]

INTP is a right-brain type(introverted thinking and extroverted intuition) and tends to be the one to exhibit raw-techinical talent and improvisational skill in whatever the discipline he tends to specialize. So, I think that his identity is based on this numerous technical ability that is accumulated experientially over the years.

On the other hand, INTJ is a left-brain type and much more concerned with the "meaning" or "story" behind various constructs in the discipline he persues. Left-brain processes language, which is a sequential data, and thus INTJ is much more apt to seek sequential consistency in the knowledge he gains. He needs a "hi-story" behind what he knows.

Carl Jung was known to have possessed a huge knowledge in literature, world mythology and gnostic tradition, a "historical" data in order to understand the "history" of an individual human being. From this I think his intuition had been of an introverted kind, and his thinking possibly extroverted as he was much less concerned about the immediate logical consistency of his argument.

[GOD]

INTP is a right-brain type(introverted thinking and extroverted intuition) and tends to be the one to exhibit raw-techinical talent and improvisational skill in whatever the discipline he tends to specialize. *So, I think that his identity is based on this numerous technical ability that is accumulated experientially over the years.

On the other hand, INTJ is a left-brain type and much more concerned with the "meaning" or "story" behind various constructs in the discipline he persues. *Left-brain processes language, which is a sequential data, and thus INTJ is much more apt to seek sequential consistency in the knowledge he gains. *He needs a "hi-story" behind what he knows.

Carl Jung was known to have possessed a huge knowledge in literature, world mythology and gnostic tradition, a "historical" data in order to understand the "history" of an individual human being. *From this I think his intuition had been of an introverted kind, and his thinking possibly extroverted as he was much less concerned about the immediate logical consistency of his argument.



Actually, I've read more about him now... and I'm thinking he's more P.

But, I think flexibility in thought is more an N function. I simply don't agree with current thinking, I see the J as a simple steering mechanism to achieve useful and efficient action. ALL the questions I see pertaining to whether I could have a P function simply revolve around being more disorganized and more chaotic. Chaotic thoughts and chaotic feelings can be contained and need not be displayed externally by actions, the J sees to that.

[lucki]

I see...I kind of thought that messiness might not be a good indicator of whether a person is a J or P though. I think it depends on "where" he is messy in. INTJ has an extroverted Judging/rational function while introverted Perceiving/irrational function, so he may prefer structure to deal with the external matters but in his dominant introverted mode, he can be quite divergent and disorganized. As for Jung, in his dominant mode(his "introverted work"), his thinking was divergent but full of intuition and insights, so this is why I think he's a INTJ.

The right/left brain stuff I said is taken from Lenore Thomson's book by the way. It's a very good read and I highly recommend it. It touches on the J/P difference based on the physiological difference. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[GOD]

I see...I kind of thought that messiness might not be a good indicator of whether a person is a J or P though. *I think it depends on "where" he is messy in. *INTJ has an extroverted Judging/rational function while introverted Perceiving/irrational function, so he may prefer structure to deal with the external matters but in his dominant introverted mode, he can be quite divergent and disorganized. *As for Jung, in his dominant mode(his "introverted work"), his thinking was divergent but full of intuition and insights, so this is why I think he's a INTJ.

The right/left brain stuff I said is taken from Lenore Thomson's book by the way. *It's a very good read and I highly recommend it. *It touches on the J/P difference based on the physiological difference. *To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Yes, I'll read more on the left/right brain use, its something I'm quite interested in.

I've always wondered if my left footed (for soccer/football) and my right handedness ensured that I developed both sides of my brain at a very early age....

I'm currently devising my new grand theory... I believe in Jungs I/E and J/P but I don't actually believe in the MBTI additional F/T... why? To me it just force fits genders into particular roles that were observable when they conducted their studies. Essentially it just hides any error in the typing by lining up genders with the roles they were in anyway.

[HackerX]

Jung identified himself as an INTP.

[Jezebel]

Jung identified himself as an INTP.
Maybe he mistyped. :P

[Ijz]

Jung identified himself as an INTP.
Maybe he mistyped. *:P
I mistype all the time

[HackerX]

Jung identified himself as an INTP.
Maybe he mistyped. :P

There's just something about Jung... I can't think of what... that maybe makes me think he is able to type himself correctly :P

Then again, I don't know what the MBTI tests were like back then compared to now... but considering he was in communication with Briggs & Myers (since MBTI is based on his work), chances are he got the test from the horses mouth so to speak.

[lucki]

Hi, here's a link to John Beebe's view on Jung's type To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. . So yes, it seems that Jung himself seems to have wanted other to think that he's an introverted thinking type.

[Henry]

Well,

He was introverted. Obviously a great thinker and by virtue of his creativity almost certainly intuitive.

The only question is whether he was Perceiving or Judging. Given the exact two terms are actually his constructs.... then..

I'd say INTJ.. Too absolutely insightful .

My type of thinker…. I’m thinking about buying his type book, if I can find it tomorrow…
[smiley=scholar.gif] Only need to read a few Psych books and I'll have one of those degrees...



Jung's type is the subject of too much debate. *He was a fairly balanced person, and he was not personally known by enough people to comment on it, and as such is very difficult to type.

If I had to pick, I would probably pick INTJ as well, but its really impossible to say with any accuracy.

[Danellian]

I agree that Jung was INTJ. *From reading some of his writings and reading other stuff about him and his theories, his primary function definately seems to be introverted intuition. *His introverted function is obviously very exploratory and open-ended. *If you read some of his writings about the archetypes, about how he is on this quest of delving within to explore his own inner landscape, it is definately a process of open-ended exploration and not one of closure-seeking decidedness. *Based upon this, I have a hard time believing he was an INTP with a primary introverted judging preference. *Further, I have read before how Ni is focused on delving inward to explore the archetypes, a theory which originates with Jung in the first place, who exhibits that process in his writings. *Looking at his relationship with Freud (not commenting on Frued's type), Jung and his fellow Neo-Fruedians were regarded as creating baseless theories devoid of empirical evidence. *INTJ is known to sometimes hold to their theories regardless of the "facts". *All of this considered, I would need a pretty strong argument to believe Jung was INTP.

[lucki]

From his autobiography "Memories, Dreams, Reflections", he seems to have been a very intuitive kid growing up in a religious family and was very aware of archetypal dynamics in him(he called it his No 2 personality). However, he had to cultivate his introverted thinking quite a bit through his medical studies. So, if we view his analytical nature, then it'd appear as he was an INTP. But he mainly used introverted thinking not as a means to end, but to organize and reflect on the images he was getting from the unconscious of his psyche and others. I think it's clear that his dominant attitude was to immerse himself in the world of archetype and meaning in the unconscious, which is more of INTJ trait.

[GOD]

I haven't yet got hold of Jung's books...

But if my theory is right, Intuitively I'd say he suffered from clinical depression...

Anybody keen to comment...

[Danellian]

Not sure if Jung suffered from clinical depression, but even if he did, I think it would take on different forms for different types, and ultimately, for different individuals. Looking at Jung's overall personality pattern, it seems to exude dominant Ni. I haven't read any of his complete books, but rather, some of his collected works, as well as his descriptions of the personality types, and then knowledge I have of him in relation to Freud. I can also see auxiliary Te, though, looking at his penchant for categorizing his environment into personity types, as evidenced in his creation of his typing system. This seems to indicate an extraverted judging preference, Te in particular.

Don't really know enough about his life, though, to know if he was undergoing something like a major depressive episode, some kind of midlife crisis, or simply undergoing personal growth regardless of what stage of life he was in.

[GOD]

Not sure if Jung suffered from clinical depression, but even if he did, I think it would take on different forms for different types, and ultimately, for different individuals. *Looking at Jung's overall personality pattern, it seems to exude dominant Ni. *I haven't read any of his complete books, but rather, some of his collected works, as well as his descriptions of the personality types, and then knowledge I have of him in relation to Freud. *I can also see auxiliary Te, though, looking at his penchant for categorizing his environment into personity types, as evidenced in his creation of his typing system. *This seems to indicate an extraverted judging preference, Te in particular. *

Don't really know enough about his life, though, to know if he was undergoing something like a major depressive episode, some kind of midlife crisis, or simply undergoing personal growth regardless of what stage of life he was in. *


From the Wiki on Carl Jung.

"As a boy he carved a tiny manikin into the end of the wooden ruler from his pupil's pencil case and placed it inside the case. He then added a stone which he had painted into upper and lower halves of, and hid the case in the attic. Periodically he would come back to the manikin, often bringing tiny sheets of paper with messages inscribed on them in his own secret language. This ceremonial act, he later reflected, brought him a feeling of inner peace and security".

Mother Emilie

"An eccentric and depressed woman"

I'm 75:25 in favour he was a "depressive" and this occurred during his formative years.

[Xenolar]

INTP is a right-brain type(introverted thinking and extroverted intuition) and tends to be the one to exhibit raw-techinical talent and improvisational skill in whatever the discipline he tends to specialize. So, I think that his identity is based on this numerous technical ability that is accumulated experientially over the years.

On the other hand, INTJ is a left-brain type and much more concerned with the "meaning" or "story" behind various constructs in the discipline he persues. Left-brain processes language, which is a sequential data, and thus INTJ is much more apt to seek sequential consistency in the knowledge he gains. He needs a "hi-story" behind what he knows.
...


I disagree with this theory. There are numerous examples that I can give you (myself included) of Js who have a noticeable right-brain hemisphere preference, and Ps who have a left-brain hemisphere preference. Similarly, I am not too keen on assigning each MBTI function to a part of the brain (in terms of left/right hemispheres, that is). There is nothing about the Ni function, for example, that to me seems remotely left-hemisphere, but instead, to me appears more right-hemisphere.

[Danellian]

Not sure if Jung suffered from clinical depression, but even if he did, I think it would take on different forms for different types, and ultimately, for different individuals. *Looking at Jung's overall personality pattern, it seems to exude dominant Ni. *I haven't read any of his complete books, but rather, some of his collected works, as well as his descriptions of the personality types, and then knowledge I have of him in relation to Freud. *I can also see auxiliary Te, though, looking at his penchant for categorizing his environment into personity types, as evidenced in his creation of his typing system. *This seems to indicate an extraverted judging preference, Te in particular. *

Don't really know enough about his life, though, to know if he was undergoing something like a major depressive episode, some kind of midlife crisis, or simply undergoing personal growth regardless of what stage of life he was in. *


From the Wiki on Carl Jung.

"As a boy he carved a tiny manikin into the end of the wooden ruler from his pupil's pencil case and placed it inside the case. He then added a stone which he had painted into upper and lower halves of, and hid the case in the attic. Periodically he would come back to the manikin, often bringing tiny sheets of paper with messages inscribed on them in his own secret language. This ceremonial act, he later reflected, brought him a feeling of inner peace and security".

Mother Emilie

"An eccentric and depressed woman"

I'm 75:25 in favour he was a "depressive" and this occurred during his formative years. *







I'm not saying Jung wasn't depressive, but I don't see that this excerpt alone is enough to demonstrate that.

[gabe]

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. to Jung-INTJ? Great type reasoning by one of the leading Jungians (it suprises me this site wasn't on that list of INTJ links)

[HackerX]

intj.org... biased towards intj's, looks at the collected external attributes, ignores anything that Jung didn't show externally, and claims, based on the way Jung created/wrote his theories that's he's an INTJ.

I'm going to slap the next person who types a person this way. Don't care where you are, I'm going to hunt you down and slap you.

[Uytuun]

As I understand it, there is a lot of uncertainty about Jung's type. I'm currently reading up on a lot of material by and about the man, and I do wonder how he could be anything other than INxJ. To me, he seems very T, but I'll leave the T-F question open. All the articles and books I read mention how he relied on intuitions and then structured them according to the scientific method, how he considered himself to be an empiricist rather than a philosopher (which I think it INTP domain) and how much of his theories were about belief rather than logical deduction. He's considered problematic by scientists exactly because he was so open to his intuitive side and shamelessly relied on it. His work is repeatedly described as a narrative rather than a scientific treatise.

[thod]

I would say anything that is about classification is likely to be INTP.

[lei]

I have attended seminars on Jungian psychology run by jungian psychoanalysts. There is a consensus within Jungian community that Jung is in fact an INTJ.

[Uytuun]

Thanks for the answer. The stuff I've read on here (especially concerning sexuality) since my first post has served to further confirm my opinion.

Wonder how you could see him as INTP, thod...

[thod]

Wonder how you could see him as INTP, thod...

Consider the INTP mind. Reality to it is the internal representation of things. Everything out there in reality is simply an instance of an idealized item and principles, dominant Ti. Thus that cat he is looking at is seen and its properties noticed by his Ne, secondary attribute. This is compared with the models held in his head and a match his made, its a cat. At this point he can pull up thousands of pieces of information about cats, mammals etc and predict its behavior. He does not need to study the cat in fine detail all that is needed is sufficient info for the identification.

He is able to apply his Ne to his internal models too and find general patterns and differences. If that cat has something un-catty about it, something that does not concur with his internal model of the cat that is flagged.

INTPs study most subjects only down to a level of detail then they move on without truly mastering it. This is consistent for them because they recognize it at that point and have enough information. If further info is required they can return and look it up. They don't waste resources on pointless detail. This breadth of knowledge allows them to see patterns between disciplines. Two researchers may think they are working in different areas but the INTP may spot that there is much in common. They are called architects for this reason. They are trying to see the big picture, avoiding detail such as which nuts and bolts go where.

This seeing connections and discrepancies in the model is what they are good at. Darwin for example saw lots of finchs and was able to see the essential sameness of them. They are like librarians. Now the librarians doesn't read every book. But you can tell them what you want and they will point you where you can find details. You can maybe see how I would say anything to do with classification is where they are strong.

The INTJ mind works in a different way, I would expect them to say "Where is this forest, I have studied every tree and I still cant find it".

Much of science is not about insight then testing, the stuff an INTJ does well. Other parts are about spotting something that is not right and investigating it or seeing the connection between two parts to come up with a new model, what an INTP does well.

Feel free to destroy my theory.

[Uytuun]

Well, for one, a lot of the things you mentioned are things that I find myself doing constantly as well e.g.

This breadth of knowledge allows them to see patterns between disciplines. Two researchers may think they are working in different areas but the INTP may spot that there is much in common.
spotting something that is not right and investigating it or seeing the connection between two parts to come up with a new model

I probably process these things differently, but the result is that I see the flaw and the connection, that I can bring certain "models" down to their fundaments and can categorise.

I dunno, how do you see Jung in this? Categorisation on its own doesn't really convince me.

Besides...insight and testing...Jung saw himself as an empiricist. He has this distinct mystical side...he was fascinated by the paranormal (wrote his thesis on his cousin who believed herself to be a "medium")...he conversed with stones. :laugh:

I once read (on INTPcentral in fact) that the difference between INTJs and INTPs is that the first ones think outside of the box, but in a way that burrows very deeply (vertical), whereas the INTP thinks outside of the box in a way that broadens (horizontal). I sometimes even realise this almost physically, that my ability to think horizontal is inferior to the vertical thing, it's like a mental constraint almost (so yeah, you're definitely right about INTPs and less detail). I guess you could say that Jung burrowed deep into our psyche, tore away layers to figure out what lay at base of it...sounds more like a vertical act to me.

[The Journey]

Well,

He was introverted. Obviously a great thinker and by virtue of his creativity almost certainly intuitive.

The only question is whether he was Perceiving or Judging. Given the exact two terms are actually his constructs.... then..

I'd say INTJ.. Too absolutely insightful .

My type of thinker…. I’m thinking about buying his type book, if I can find it tomorrow…
[smiley=scholar.gif] Only need to read a few Psych books and I'll have one of those degrees...

Uhm.. lol.

Carl Jung advocated people to move away from modern natural sciences.

Jung believed that government only suppresses the individuality. He believed that government is another form of slavery. He believed that if government is more worshipped than religion, then it leads to the suppression of morality and freedom and ultimately the demise of the individuality.
*sigh*... another religious conservative nutjob.

He used self induced hallucination in order to get to more insights into human psychology. Uh oh..

He believed that the human psyche can be directly mapped to specific types of what he called "archetypes". This is kind of to each his own idea, but my 2 cents is that human minds cannot be mapped into any category.

Oh btw, most colleges and universities do not use his ideas, ever wonder why? Yet whoever created MBTI did.

[Undead Bonzi]

There is something deeply funny about this thread. The man invented the foundations of the MBTI system. On this system he made he typed himself and came out INTP. Now we have armchair MBTI 'experts' years later who never knew the man and can only judge a few external sources and declare him an INTJ...

Watching people sift information through the screen of their confirmation bias is rather fun.

[Functianalyst]

This has been debated here more than once, and since the last debate I don't think there is anything that has changed. Carl Jung gave his specific type, in this interview. this video at or around the 8:45 mark (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.). He says that he is capitalized by thinking, uses intuition a great deal also, very little feeling is not practical. As argued the last time this came up, if he was INTJ he would have said that he capitalizes using intuiting and uses thinking a great deal. It's quite clear that he is either ENTJ or INTP. Since ENTPs and INTJs have argued that he could be ENTJ, I have never read that Jung was anything but introverted.