INTJ and OCD

[Tony]

After meeting others INTJs and making some observations, I have come to suspect over time whether there may be a conection between the two.
Do any of you have OCD sympthoms like hair pulling or walking around?

[ShaiGar]

INTP so not the person you wanted to poll. To answer though the answer is no.

However I have many symptoms of ADD, which I assume is related to being INTP

[GOD]

After meeting others INTJs and making some observations, I have come to suspect over time whether there may be a conection between the two.
Do any of you have OCD sympthoms like hair pulling or walking around?

It depends whether there is any statistical evidence to support the notion that various types have a greater connection with underlying "problems".

No condition matters unless it affects your enjoyment of life.

I think most of the time, it’s more about the person looking for a condition rather than actually having one. Hypochondria comes to mind.

[chocky]

My father has untreated OCD, but if I had to guess his type I would have said ISTJ. I'm certain of the ITJ combination, but (and it pains me to admit it) he may be N rather than S.

His behaviour was/is a problem for others around him, but he seems oblivious to the consequences, and quite unable to alter his compulsive rituals. (If I understand the condition, then the rituals must be performed to prevent the sufferer from experiencing an overwhelm of "bad feelings" - or the end of the world - which ever comes first?)

Obsessive neatness, combing, comb cleaning, polishing, light-switch flicking, hand washing, lid tightening, jar scraping, cleaning, hording, hiding (so an item can not be used and sullied), sorting and storing... no pacing or hair pulling though. Just hours of every day compulsively spent in various infuriating (for the by-stander) rituals and habits. His symptoms are combined with hyper-religiousity, and I understand this is a not infrequent combination.

As a one-time child subject to the unbending rule of another's irrational behaviour, I would say it is worth seeking treatment where other people are being impacted.

I've never knowingly met another OCD sufferer, but I know a confirmed INTJ rather well, and he exhibits none of these tendencies.

[Rei]

I almost always pace/tap my foot when I'm waiting for something.
I always make my room/desk spotless and neat before getting down to work.

[qwerty]

I almost always pace/tap my foot when I'm waiting for something.
I always make my room/desk spotless and neat before getting down to work.

Foot tapping is normally anxiety. If you ever walk through a casino you can tell those going under by their body language. So I wouldn't call it OCD.

[Tsuru]

If there's any psychological "disorder" highly correlated to INTJs, I'd put my money on Asperger's Syndrome, Schizoid Personality Disorder, and/or Schizotypal Personality disorder.

I can't say I have many OCD traits such as illogical ritual-compulsions or what not.

[deicruxified]

i walk too often...
i got jogger's high...

[Rei]

I almost always pace/tap my foot when I'm waiting for something.
I always make my room/desk spotless and neat before getting down to work.

Foot tapping is normally anxiety. If you ever walk through a casino you can tell those going under by their body language. So I wouldn't call it OCD.

True, I guess I'm just ridiculously impatient... which would be more like ADD than OCD.
I don't see how walking around is OCD either though... time to read up.

[Santana28]

<~~~ ADD and OCD. I also compulsively pick at myself or pull my hair due to anxiety, besides the other ritualized things i do. I'm not bad and i can cope... but anyone who spends time with me closely will see my quirks.

[aelan]

I don't have OCD, but I have some obsessive-compulsive tendencies, such as re-reading e-mails repeatedly before I send them, I get into moods where I have to have extreme organization, sometimes when taking notes in class if a particular letter or word doesn't match the style of the rest of my writing, I'll erase it and rewrite it, I rinse glasses before I use them because they feel 'contaminated', etc. I've noticed that it gets worse when I'm stressed, but it's not bad enough to really interfere with my life. I could probably not act on most of them without too much anxiety (except re-reading e-mails) if I really wanted to stop them.

[TruorTupnm]

Do not most have some kind of obsessive as well as compulsive habits? I wouldn't know if the I. N. T. J. type is more likely to have the sort that would be difficult to control. I had all kinds of things that I used to do (mostly arranging things or doing things with even numbers, counting letters or words in sentences and changing them until they looked more symmetrical, stuff like that), but I decided to cut back. For a while, it was done pretty brainlessly, and was sometimes even kind of useful, but I found that it was wasting my time. I do it all of the time, when I have time, though.

[Aoiluna]

I have a mild case of OCD (self -diagnosed) but it does interfere with my life. When I am walking on a sidewalk with cracks, whatever one foot does the other has to, or I feel unbalanced and annoyed. If i step on a crack with my left foot, i will go out of my way to step on the next one with my right. And if i cant do that I establish a pattern that will make me feel balanced. I know that there are others that do this, but those who dont think its ridiculous. I wash my hands a lot, but being a germaphobe might have something to do with that. After touching anything my hands automatically feel gross and contaminated. I chew my lip and sides of my mouth, and I think I also have an oral fixation (which is kind of off topic, but anyways) Oh and that reminds me I do have ADD as well. I do this with typing too, if I use one hand too much I will try to type with the other to balance it out. same goes with crossing my legs, kickboxing, and almost everything else.

[Santana28]

I really wish i could get over my OCD...

You know whats one of the worst problems being an INTJ? THERAPY IS IMPOSSIBLE!

I was in therapy for a year just "for the heck of it" ... basically, i wanted to get a second opinion on myself. Of course, to my average therapist i came across as the most intelligent, together, thoughtful, self-aware person he had ever met. "I already know all of the answers... i just have to do them." - his words. He didn't help me with a damned thing.

The OCD thing bothers me. I simply cannot sit still, watch tv, do anything that doesn't keep my hands occupied without picking at something. A scab, a zit, a strand of hair... i scratch my head...i rub my leg... i pick at absolutely nothing at all, create a scab, and give myself something else to pick at. Its confined to places that aren't visible on a day to day basis, but its still obvious if you pay attention...my hands are always busy....

Argh. this sucks. Cigarettes help :) LOL

[Tarrick]

The only thing that I could see it in myself is that I feel a bit compelled to do things in order or sequence. I can break it, but its much easier to go with that "flow".

[The Many]

I really wish i could get over my OCD...

You know whats one of the worst problems being an INTJ? THERAPY IS IMPOSSIBLE!

I was in therapy for a year just "for the heck of it" ... basically, i wanted to get a second opinion on myself. Of course, to my average therapist i came across as the most intelligent, together, thoughtful, self-aware person he had ever met. "I already know all of the answers... i just have to do them." - his words. He didn't help me with a damned thing.

The OCD thing bothers me. I simply cannot sit still, watch tv, do anything that doesn't keep my hands occupied without picking at something. A scab, a zit, a strand of hair... i scratch my head...i rub my leg... i pick at absolutely nothing at all, create a scab, and give myself something else to pick at. Its confined to places that aren't visible on a day to day basis, but its still obvious if you pay attention...my hands are always busy....

Argh. this sucks. Cigarettes help :) LOL

That keeping your hands occupied thing goes for me too, but that's really the only OCD-ish symptom I've got. I seem to have become quite good at drumming at the tables I have in front of me; playing lots of different drum patterns, fills etc all the time. Agree with the therapist thing too, though... I have been able to use some form of internal cognitive therapy on myself many times in the past, thus managing to get through various issues which others probably would have needed help to get through. I never saw a therapist, and I have never really needed one either.

[Jezebel]

The OCD thing bothers me. I simply cannot sit still, watch tv, do anything that doesn't keep my hands occupied without picking at something. A scab, a zit, a strand of hair... i scratch my head...i rub my leg... i pick at absolutely nothing at all, create a scab, and give myself something else to pick at. Its confined to places that aren't visible on a day to day basis, but its still obvious if you pay attention...my hands are always busy....

I have this problem too. I'm very fidgety and my hands are in constant motion. I absolutely cannot leave anything on my body alone that I can pick at (like scabs). I also touch things and pick things up and put them down a lot without noticing. The worst of it is probably my bad habit of shredding things. For example, at restuarants, I tear apart the napkins or straw paper into little bits... when I'm walking, I'll pick up something like a stick or leaf and start breaking it apart... and it often doesn't register with me that I'm doing these things until I'm already well into the process of doing it. I also involuntarily slap my legs sometimes when I'm sitting... that gets weird looks from people. *:-/


Edit: I never considered that OCD though... ??

[Xenolar]

In my opinion, unhealthy INTJ = moderate-severe OCD. I'm not saying that all INTJs have OCD (though most, if not all, will probably display minor symptoms), nor am I saying that all people diagnosed with OCD are INTJs (however, even if they are not INTJs, I assume that the mast majority of them are IJs, and I suspect that most are Ns), yet I am saying that there is definitely a relatively strong correlation. As most of you probably know, Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder consists of two distinct symptoms: obsessions and compulsions. The definition of OCD, according to a medical encyclopedia that I just happen to have right by me, is the following:

Obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD) is a type of anxiety disorder characterized by distressing repetitive thoughts, impulses, or images that are intense, frightening, absurd, or unusual. These thoughts are followed by ritualized actions that are usually bizarre and irrational. These ritual actions, known as compulsions, help reduce anxiety caused by the individual's obsessive thoughts. Often described as the "disease of doubt," the sufferer usually knows the obsessive thoughts and compulsions are irrational but, on another level, fears they may be true.

If we look at the above, especially that which I have written in bold letters, we can see a slight correlation between (1) obsessions and the Ni function, and (2) compulsions and the Te function. A very unhealthy INTJ and/or an OCD patient will experience frightening and bizarre images and visions coming to mind (Ni), and will thus engage in compulsive activities (Te) to relieve the distress and anxiety. I think that it is also well-established that OCD diagnosed patients are usually introverted, by the general nature of the condition, and related disorders. All of the aforementioned, combined with the the self-doubting/self-improving nature of xNTx types in general, as well as the perfectionist qualities of the J, I believe that it is quite clear that INTJ is one of the most likely (if not the most likely) candidate for have OCD.

[Santana28]

xenolar, excellent post.

the only difference for myself would seem to be the complete lack of disturbing thoughts or images preceeding the compulsive behavior. i dont process these thoughts actively, but i feel them. i get anxiety from not "doing" anything. I feel useless..like i am wasting time. Time is so, so valuable... i am so, so capable... why am i wasting time.... that torments me on a daily basis, but without the added visual imagery. It has also led to a lifelong inability to fall asleep - my anxiety and mind activate at times of inactivity. I'm always tired, which leads me to get less done during the day... which leads to more anxiety... see what i told you about the therapist? I already know all of my problems...haha.

So needless to say - whenever i am not stimulating my mind or pyshically applying myself... anxiety sets in, and i must "do." You're right that the picking is directed towards my "flaws" - i am projecting my disappointment of myself for not "doing" or not "being" onto my own body and expressing them. the more active and productive i feel; the less compulsions i act out.

Vicious circle. I should probably be on anxiety medication of some sort, but i dont believe in medication and it probably wouldn't help me with my chosen career field... ah well.

[WavesSootheMe]

I relate to so many things in this post! I think the thing with me is that I have some anxiety problems, and it would make my life easier if they weren't there. Similarly to Santana28, I come across as, "intelligent, together, thoughtful, [and] self-aware," so no one seems to believe me when I mention maybe needing help (and on most things I, myself, deny ever needing help). I agree, therapies that simply try to unlock the core of the problem don't help. I've already thoroughly analyzed every time I've felt anxious or had a panic attack, and I've come to my own conclusions. To compound it all, I'm in the field of psychology myself.

My mild OCD tendencies are how I deal with my anxiety. Preparing and organizing small details calms me. Maybe the world is chaos, but at least my CD collection isn't. Maybe the house is a mess, but at least my closet is orderly. I inspect my glasses/cups before I use them too (I've done this since I was a child). I have a few other rituals related to germaphobia, but they're minor. I don't like using public restrooms, but I will if I have to. I can't even tell you how much time I've spent picking at and re-writing this post. In college I had this ritual of drawing out my schedule for the quarter. It was color-coded and I used a ruler to draw the lines. If I messed up on anything, it was tossed and re-done until perfect. I tried to do this for my sister when she went off to college and she found it extremely unnecessary. My behavior at restaurants is another mild compulsion. I start piling up trash and plates and cleaning the table for the server. Most of the time I do this without even realizing it. One of my friends/exes liked to mess with me by undoing what I've done. He'd take a napkin off the top of my consolidated pile and throw it haphazardly on the table or floor and then dare me to leave it be. While I do feel that my anxiety interferes with my life on some levels (such as venturing somewhere new alone), the traits of OCD that I exhibit do not. They're not full-fledged compulsions or obsessions. I prefer things a certain way, but I don't stress out if they're not that way. I didn't freak out if my schedule wasn't done before the quarter started. At restaurants, I can leave the trash thrown by my friend with minor agitation. I still feel the compulsion to grab it, but leaving it isn't difficult. I think the worst result of my "OCD" is the time it takes me to turn in a final project. Quality at the expense of time is not always appreciated in efficiency-driven, American society.

I share the compulsion to pick at every bump and scab and mole on my body. My last boyfriend would always hold my hands to try and stop me, but how do you stop something that you don't even realize you're doing? It is a compulsion in true form. I can't rest until it's gone, and when it is there's a total sense of satisfaction, even if the end result is that I'm bleeding. If one is being stubborn, I can't just let it go. This behavior seems to have extended to scabs on my cat, although I'm a little more careful since I can't feel what hurts her and what doesn't. I hate talking about this, because it seems so gross, but there you have it. I've always felt like it's a simple, outward way of ridding myself of imperfections.

Scab-picking aside, my "OCD" traits can make me a bit odd and quirky, but I like that. People seem to find it cute and endearing. Plus it seems to be the only thing on which my father and I can relate.

My father exhibits signs of OCD more severe than mine. He also has fewer social skills than me and he's in the field of computer science. On top of all that, he's hyper-religious. I don't really see him as an INTJ, but out of curiosity I'll ask him to take the test.

[Rei]

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I get the annoying pick at everything until it's gone compulsion too. I sit on my hands a lot to keep myself from doing it unconsciously, and it doesn't always work.

I also have a thing with hairless legs. I sometimes go nuts and wax my legs in the middle of winter even if I have no plans of showing my legs any time soon. The most annoying OCD thing in the world is getting tweezer happy... Luckily I usually stop myself before I go too far =/

Otherwise it's mostly my "omg my blanket is not pulled straight on my bed" or "must line up pens in order of colour before i make notes."

[Santana28]

Tweezer happy....LOL... i can relate to that.

When you find yourself voluntarily tweezing individual hairs off of your legs and other appendages you could just as easily shave... you know you have OCD :)

[Rei]

Tweezer happy....LOL... i can relate to that.

When you find yourself voluntarily tweezing individual hairs off of your legs and other appendages you could just as easily shave... you know you have OCD :)

I've long been trying to convince my mother that it's true... but she refuses to believe I have problems LOL

[drandomtubas]

I have minor OCD... generally it doesn't screw my life up too much, but I do have one severe problem...

I, like Rei, pick at myself... until I bleed, and then when it scabs, I rip off the scab. I do it in class, before bed, while I'm supposed to be doing homework... Basically, if I have a free hand, I'm probably ripping at something... My arms get the worst of it. Dermatillomania is what it's called. I've been doing it since I was 9.
It's gotten much worse in the past few years, because I now rip arm hair out... and then it gets ingrown... and then I rip that out... and so on and so forth.

Also, I can't do any work unless the space I'm in is neat. Lately I haven't been able to get it tidy enough. I wonder if I can use that explanation the next time a professor wonders why I haven't turned in my homework for the umpteenth time.
I can't write because what I write is never good enough... so I basically have permanent writer's block.

[Santana28]

I can't write because what I write is never good enough... so I basically have permanent writer's block.

oh, isn't that the truth? i think the problem with that is that as an INTJ we know exactly what we are capable, and yet it seems we are always falling short... i guess thats why most INTJs head towards careers with concrete pass/fail accomplishments vs. judgement calls such as art and music....

[Hdier]

I have some tendincies. I will make sure that everything about me is equal (for example, when if I accadentintly bite my tounge on one side I have to concioussly resist biting the other side).

The odd thing is, though I do have a strong sense of 'fair', I don't have any OCD tendincies to anything outside of 'me'.

[PhotoJim]

I have a few little things.

I get these fairly thick hairs that grow on my nose. They drive me crazy. If I can feel them with my fingers (and why do I have to look for them in the first place?) I try to tweeze them out with my fingernails. Eventually I go tweeze them out with real tweezers, or shave them off, but they grow back. I wish I could just ignore them.

My biggest obsession (and I'm not sure this counts) is that I tend to look at bigger projects (and even not-so-big ones) as a big chain of consequences and then the implications of all of those consequences really holds me back from doing the project in the first place. Even though I really want to get started with a project, I find it hard to start because all these thoughts run through my head about where it will all lead.

I also really like finishing things... for example I like using up the last bit of toothpaste or the last cotton swab or the last sheet of photographic paper in the box. (This only applies to things that take awhile to consume.) If I am really near to using up something where I have a choice of alternatives, I often choose the one that I'm almost done using just so that I can get rid of it entirely sooner.