cons of being an INTJ

[AntimonyLegault]

I can say it's rather nice being an intj, except I find that there are alot of people who get the impression that I'm some sort of stuck-up arrogant prick :-?.

Also I know we're capable of great thinking, but speaking from experience, I tend to jump onto ideas, and lots of the time I totally forget/ignore certain details of the fact and actually believe I'm right (only to find out later I missed something and am therefore wrong :( ), maybe thats why we make good lawyers?. Was wondering if anyone else can relate to this. :lovestruck:

[anul]

My primary problem with being an INTJ is being too cool for school. My secondary problem is not having or being able to show proper empathy to people I care for at appropriate times. Although if it wasn't for my wife I probably wouldn't care that I don't have empathy.

[Evalind]

My secondary problem is not having or being able to show proper empathy to people I care for at appropriate times.

YES! I was trying to explain to my mom a while back that sometimes I have to stop and think about what my facial expression is so I can make sure it matches people's expectations in those awkward emotional moments. She thought that was the weirdest thing ever.

[Epicurus]

Actually I don't only think people see me as arrogant some has mentioned it also... ''He thinks he knows everything.'' Sometimes when Im wrong I find myself ignorant afterwards, but thats only when Im doing things in haste. Really frustrating to find yourself wrong or even to realize you might just be wrong and you never even had a clue about it.

That thing with empathy is a tricky one... Once I almost laughed myself crying when some girl ran out from the classroom crying because an asshole offended her or something, it was just a weird situation and then I more than often laugh... Like seeing people get their head cut off...then I also laugh sometimes even tough I feel quite bad in some ways.

Also I do hate school, about since I was twelve... I just think its a huge waste of time, you have to sit there for years and not learn a crap just to get a job wich I if Im lucky will not hate. I would prefer learning for myself, as then I would actually learn. And I don't see any fun in meeting people at all. Really hard to motivate going to school every day just because of that even though I never had problems with any people there. Thats probably why I choose to try and get to be a welder or something like that, if im able to get up to school enough days. Actually i think its mostly the people or the social situation wich makes me not wanna go to school so much, as I most likely 'got' social phobia/avoidant personality disorder and schizotypal personality disorder. We will see if that changes after going to the doctor next week and hopefully get some paroxetine or equivelant other medication.

[Max T]

My secondary problem is not having or being able to show proper empathy to people I care for at appropriate times.

And a corrolary (sp?) to empathy is tact and diplomacy.
A real downside to being an INTJs imo.
Lost count of the number of times I'd been tactless, later recall, cringe and then replay the incident in my mind, promising never to repeat the same mistake (make new blunders instead!).

Example: One mate paid a lot of money for a gadget with a key function.
I admired it and said there's one with the same key function on eBay at a fraction of the cost that I might buy.
I was so consumed with the key function, it never occurred to me at the time that I may have offended him with the cheap price he could have paid.
Arrghhh!

[rwyatt365]

And a corrolary (sp?) to empathy is tact and diplomacy.
A real downside to being an INTJs imo. *
+1 to that!

In gradeschool I told a girl that she looked like a monkey (well she DID!). I was only making an observation and was cluelesss to the offense she took to that remark. Needless to say that her big brother soon "enlightened" me by knocking me over the fence for that observation! :-X

[anul]

I was so consumed with the key function, it never occurred to me at the time that I may have offended him with the cheap price he could have paid.
Arrghhh!

You shouldn't worry about offending him because he could have saved money. If he wanted to save money he would have shopped around to find the best price. It's his own fault really.

[the-writer]

I tend offend people from time to time although I'm older (42) and have figured out a lot of "artificial intelligence" about what offends people so I try and avoid repeating past mistakes.

One CON for me is that I can't let go of past small failures. I remember the people I offended all the way back to grade school, etc.

Also, I tend to be pretty hard on myself. I have so many great plans that I then don't follow through with (because there are only 24 hours in a day).

[bikerscars]

the whole lack of societal nuances...

uncomfortable in most (all) non-immediate family social situations/ work is ok 'cause i've made the effort to adjust to that nutty environment

stiff as a board when it comes to expressing myself through dance although playing sports (physical activity) is an area i do well

[hopscotch]

I'm often frustrated by my inability to relax and have fun. My mind is always buzzing with plans and theories and will not shut off long enough for me to let go of my reserve and enjoy the moment. As a result, I appear aloof and uninteresting, the perpetual wallflower.

I also wish I was better at expressing myself verbally. Ideas will make sense in my head, but apparently there is a disconnect between brain and mouth because others frequently misunderstand me. Even though I know this is true, I still assume that no one listens to me, since they either forget what I've said or repeat my ideas in a different way and get credit for them. This just causes me to withdraw more.

[GOD]

The brutally honest lack of empathy thing is a "con" when trying to achieve the average.

The thing is that we look at the problem/situation and we are already into rectifying it, while the rest blubber about their emotions.

As for the price thing.... ;D.. My father when I was a kid would always ask me how much this and that cost (When I bought something) and then he'd on purpose try to find it cheaper somewhere else... he enjoyed being an arse.

Another con of INTJ guy is that quite a few women dig our traits, although we're not particularly good at knowing when they are into us, or doing the chat up line.

Lastly, there are many cons to being INTJ but I know that I can slowly adjust my "public traits" and solve my problems.

[thegnat]

as hopscotch was saying - my mind doesn't usually shut off long enough for me to truly relax and have fun sometimes. Sometimes I actually have to tell myself to not start thinking about some random idea when I'm trying to relax. I almost have to be immersed in something where my mind is only thinking about that. Sometimes I use music for that and try to focus on the music which clears my mind pretty well. I'm *generally* clear just watching horses - but again it's close, not quite, my mind is always thinking.

I also assume no one listens to me. And I used to be misunderstood when I was younger too because of a speech problem. So I'd repeat some things. So if I ever want to say something I'll repeat it when I don't really have to and it's just awkward.

I am a horrible dancer, but good at sports, too similar I think to bikerscars.

But I'd say my worst problem is the whole social thing. The women I'm generally around are more E and F than I am. Sometimes I have to fake a little of that so I'm not completely outcast(well at least with the tennis team). Faking that drains me so I don't do it often and it's another reason I'll opt not to go to non-class social events - because it takes effort.

And I guess another problem with the social thing is I have no idea how to flirt. haha.

And someone mentioned it before - but my facial expressions - mom usually reads them wrong. It's hard for me to use the right facial expression.

I'll always be my worst critic - sometimes it actually helps me because like in tennis I can spot what's wrong immediately and correct it.

Gosh, now I feel like a social failure haha.

[GOD]

as hopscotch was saying - my mind doesn't usually shut off long enough for me to truly relax and have fun sometimes. Sometimes I actually have to tell myself to not start thinking about some random idea when I'm trying to relax. I almost have to be immersed in something where my mind is only thinking about that. Sometimes I use music for that and try to focus on the music which clears my mind pretty well. I'm *generally* clear just watching horses - but again its close, not quite, my mind is always thinking.

Ah, that’s what I like about physical exercise. It shuts your mind down into just focusing on the activity. I think you should be able to achieve the same if you do some fast cross country horse trekking?
Physical exercise is also great on the endorphin side, so if you’re prone to depression then it can help significantly.


I also assume no one listens to me. And I used to be misunderstood when I was younger too because of a speech problem. So I'd repeat some things. So if I ever want to say something I'll repeat it when I don't really have to and it's just awkward.

Yeah, my father had a stuttering problem, I think its an "I" thing with getting nervous, or perhaps your mind is racing ahead of your speech and its skipping a track so to speak. Some girls really twitch their eyes when I'm talking to them, you can really notice they are out of their introversion zone.


I am a horrible dancer, but good at sports, too similar I think to bikerscars.


I was really good at sports but completely rubbish at swimming, I used to sink so much I couldn't breath... just found out it does happen to some people as their bones, muscles and lack of fat makes them not very buoyant... lol..

I guess dancing for women is about being a girly girl.


But I'd say my worst problem is the whole social thing. The women I'm generally around are more E and F than I am. Sometimes I have to fake a little of that so I'm not completely outcast(well at least with the tennis team). Faking that drains me so I don't do it often and it's another reason I'll opt not to go to non-class social events - because it takes effort.


I think you might just find the other women are just trying to fit the stereotype "social bunny". You might have an advantage as you might have the thought set to relate to guys more...


And I guess another problem with the social thing is I have no idea how to flirt. haha.


How about next time a guy that you like, talks to you, you consciously answer the question and reply with additional detail that leads him into talking more (And extending the conversation). Don't let your usual efficient INTJ method lead to answering the facts and closing the loop in the conversation. Practice it. :thumbsup:


And someone mentioned it before - but my facial expressions - mom usually reads them wrong. It's hard for me to use the right facial expression.


Yeah, I think us INTJ's have a short circuit release that allows us to relieve stress through laughter. It’s a problem though when the stress is due to the situation relating to someone else’s misfortune. I have laughed at really inappropriate times...


I'll always be my worst critic - sometimes it actually helps me because like in tennis I can spot what's wrong immediately and correct it.


One thing I'd say, unless you are going to be a professional then you should treat it as a social event. I stopped wearing a watch when running specifically to stop myself racing myself for better and better times. Competition has to be healthy.


Gosh, now I feel like a social failure haha.

No.. In true type style you only need a few good friends... just that you might have to make an effort to spot them...

[Max T]

I'm often frustrated by my inability to relax and have fun. My mind is always buzzing with plans and theories and will not shut off long enough for me to let go of my reserve and enjoy the moment.
Good point Hopscotch.
People say I'm driven and assume that it must be tiring.
Personally don't find it tiring- to completely shut off would be boring and a waste of time.
Even on a beach I'll be reading something practical. But it does make you wonder e.g. "what is bungee jumping like?". Haven't had a typical holiday in 3 years.

[thegnat]

Ah, that’s what I like about physical exercise. It shuts your mind down into just focusing on the activity. I think you should be able to achieve the same if you do some fast cross country horse trekking?
Physical exercise is also great on the endorphin side, so if you’re prone to depression then it can help significantly.

Oh I absolutely agree. And yes you can definitely achieve the same with some horse trekking :) Tennis is a great sport for it too because it involves a lot of thinking. You have to process the spin, velocity, angle, height of the ball in a split second and react to it and then decide in a split second where is the best place to put the ball, how much spin to put on it, how much pace, do you want to change it up? Then between points you have to make a strategy for the next one and analyze what you did wrong/right in the previous so you can change/stay the same.


Yeah, my father had a stuttering problem, I think its an "I" thing with getting nervous, or perhaps your mind is racing ahead of your speech and its skipping a track so to speak. Some girls really twitch their eyes when I'm talking to them, you can really notice they are out of their introversion zone.

Actually that reminds me, I used to stutter, too. I went to speech for that. Then later on I went to speech because I dropped my r's (I live in boring-accented central Ohio when people aren't used to people dropping consonants, it just freaks them out for some reason). Not sure why I had that problem. Neither of my parents dropped their rs. I was born and raised in the same place. I only really have half a theory and I'm not even sure if it's at all valid. And due to my introvertedness I'm not saying it on the Internets :P


I was really good at sports but completely rubbish at swimming, I used to sink so much I couldn't breath... just found out it does happen to some people as their bones, muscles and lack of fat makes them not very buoyant... lol..

I guess dancing for women is about being a girly girl.

Well someone on the men's tennis team can't swim either. Though I have to say I've never been very buoyant myself. Whenever doing those floating things - oh geez I can't float worth crap. I can swim decently though since my cousins were swimmers and they taught me a bit.

Oh and I am definitely not a girly girl. So that would explain that....

I think you might just find the other women are just trying to fit the stereotype "social bunny". You might have an advantage as you might have the thought set to relate to guys more...

I do feel like I can relate to guys more. They seem easier for me to talk to than the "social butterfly girly girl" I suppose I just need to use that to my advantage more.

How about next time a guy that you like, talks to you, you consciously answer the question and reply with additional detail that leads him into talking more (And extending the conversation). Don't let your usual efficient INTJ method lead to answering the facts and closing the loop in the conversation. Practice it. :thumbsup:

Ok I'll try that, thanks 8-)

Yeah, I think us INTJ's have a short circuit release that allows us to relieve stress through laughter. It’s a problem though when the stress is due to the situation relating to someone else’s misfortune. I have laughed at really inappropriate times...

Did you know that if you laugh before an exam for a couple minutes before it can raise your grade 2%? But yeah it's the random, grin, laugh, etc, that gets mom going, what are you up to? Or sometimes I'll just be thinking of something odd when mom's like "What's the matter?" and it's just some weird thought I'm having and nothing's really "the matter" (though everything's matter, groan)

One thing I'd say, unless you are going to be a professional then you should treat it as a social event. I stopped wearing a watch when running specifically to stop myself racing myself for better and better times. Competition has to be healthy.

Yeah, the only way I can run at better and better times is if I do wear a watch - For tennis we have to get a mile under 7 minutes by spring(our main season). Or at least try for it. I should probably treat it more of a social event than I do. I've just been around it so long....and honestly I'm not sure I'll be able to be as serious about it as I have been in the spring with my heavy course load(quantum chem, physics, econ, physics lab, research which is the equivalent of 6-8 lab hours). I'm trying to start that attitude now a bit more so I don't worry about tennis/academic conflicts in the spring. However I do agree that competition is healthy.


No.. In true type style you only need a few good friends... just that you might have to make an effort to spot them...

yeah I do have a few good friends. I just tend to make friends that move on me....so my "good friends" tend to kind of switch from year to year anymore...(it's hard to keep in touch)

[Firelie]

The main con I have in being INTJ is that I'm horrible at processing anyone else's strong emotions. If a person is calm enough to discuss their emotions with me I'm okay at helping and offering advice, but if there's any sort of hysteria involved I'm just useless. It's like, if I can't see a problem to fix and the person is too hysterical to say what it is, I get frozen in place wondering what the problem is while everyone else has already moved in to comfort the person.

Another one is that I can never seem to make up my mind when creating art. Sometimes I get lost in the myriad of choices I could make. I usually have to shut off my thinking and just do whatever I feel like doing until I'm satisfied with the way it's going.

[thegnat]

The main con I have in being INTJ is that I'm horrible at processing anyone else's strong emotions. If a person is calm enough to discuss their emotions with me I'm okay at helping and offering advice, but if there's any sort of hysteria involved I'm just useless. It's like, if I can't see a problem to fix and the person is too hysterical to say what it is, I get frozen in place wondering what the problem is while everyone else has already moved in to comfort the person.

Another one is that I can never seem to make up my mind when creating art. Sometimes I get lost in the myriad of choices I could make. I usually have to shut off my thinking and just do whatever I feel like doing until I'm satisfied with the way it's going.

ah yes exactly the same here...

[Doppelbock]

My big con as an INTJ is that I was born without a "think twice before speaking" filter. I will routinely say the most incredibly blunt, insensitive, and otherwise inappropriate things, and then anywhere from a nanosecond to several days later, I will recall the incident and ask myself, why in the #@$! did I say that??!?

DB

[vulcan]

I can say it's rather nice being an intj, except I find that there are alot of people who get the impression that I'm some sort of stuck-up arrogant prick :-?.

Also I know we're capable of great thinking, but speaking from experience, I tend to jump onto ideas, and lots of the time I totally forget/ignore certain details of the fact and actually believe I'm right (only to find out later I missed something and am therefore wrong :( ), maybe thats why we make good lawyers?. Was wondering if anyone else can relate to this. :lovestruck:
You speak truth.

I'll adopt an idea and defend it to the death and then a few days later realize that the idea was pretty stupid so I'll move on to something else.

I also don't mean to be a prick, but I often find myself washing away the emotion from my face unconsciously so that I appear to be a stolid-looking asshole.

Especially around strangers... which is great when trying to meet people ... yeah.

[wise]

I, apparently in ignorance, thought that the leap-before-you-look, speak-before-you-think, don't-which-type-of-creative-outlet-to-explore-next type of person was an INTP. I have all of these qualities big time. So I guess put these in my INTJ side.

The "for sure" INTP qualities I have are getting bored with a project/activity which a few days ago was the bomb AND doubting my decisions.

[deicruxified]

I can say it's rather nice being an intj, except I find that there are alot of people who get the impression that I'm some sort of stuck-up arrogant prick *:-?.
ditto...

1. i am often called souless in decision making for not considering feelings like in a college groups project, some group mate of mine (we don't have to choose our own mates so that's a bummer) slacks of and doesn't contribute anything... i scraped him off the group and told the prof... then he was telling me it's his last chance since he almost got to the limit of units failed so he'll just pay us for the project. i said NO.

2. i am always late on news about the social world.. just a while ago, i asked why a colleague was absent and i got this reply, "she's on leave for 2 weeks she'll be backs tomorrow how come yo don't know?

3. relationships... it's hard to reciprocate "i love you's" and all that sweet stuff

[vulcan]

Lack of sexual relations sucks too.

[Epicurus]

When I think about it I really do need to look myself in the mirror, just to make sure I don't look like I just owned everybody in the room. My inner picture of my face doesn't match with what Im trying to express, but yeah what I express I probably more of what I really feel but everybody are such social slaves so they don't get it do they. :(

[Max T]

Lack of sexual relations sucks too.
Like the double meaning- they certainly don't suck for me too! ;D


Another INTJ con not yet mentioned that I suffer is very occasionally overlooking a really glaring current impracticality to a proposed plan. It's a major con because, upon someone pointing out the oversight, the rest of your efforts are questioned.


(Without going off topic, here's some positive comments others say about INTJs, to cheer us up! :)
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[Natrushka]

Biggest CON for me is that I am often misunderstood when I know I am making sense. Second place goes to expecting people to be consistent... which leads to misunderstandings. ::)

[BadgerDad]

Having read most of the posts, most of the comments are true for me. Some additional thoughts:
-- The majority of people are not really worth knowing.
-- My work is such that I have had to do a lot of public speaking. I can do it, and I do it well, but its really draining.
-- I dont have a clue when women like me.
-- I get torked off when people dont recognize (and reward) my unadvertized elegant brilliance.

"Please Lord, help me to be more considerate of the thoughts of others, no matter how stupid they are."

[Naokohiro]

INTJ personality is very rare, so your odd personality and behavior stands out and is looked upon badly or misunderstood.
I hate laughing at the wrong moments. Being awkward sometimes and sometimes not knowing you're awkward...
Insensitive people can't understand your complicated (emotions?) and instantly persecute them.
Thinking about past things and realizing all the mistakes you made and wishing you could correct such things in the future.
I sometimes have trouble carrying on a conversation or I talk too much about one thing. (Poor nice people who sit it out. They must be extremely annoyed and bored...)
I always wish there were more INTJ's in the world, so that being weird wouldn't be so 'wrong...'

Being artistic or whatever is very different than the way a normal person would approach it. Like, I could learn how to draw, but it would really just be being able to completely memorize how to translate my memories into lines on a paper, as opposed to just understanding it... (Some INTJ's might have natural talent in this as well...)

When I get my true feelings out, people tend to treat me like a real person!!! But, that rarely happens...
{I used to be extroverted, but at some point in my life my brain just cracked and I became an INTJ... Only because of my cranial capacity?}

[The Rose]

I don't like the way I can accidentally say socially inappropriate things so easily - things that sound selfish , closed-minded or undiplomatic.

I hate the way I have always been so hard on myself, perfectionistic; I went so many years thinking I was defective.

[blueback]

You shouldn't worry about offending him because he could have saved money. If he wanted to save money he would have shopped around to find the best price. It's his own fault really.

The offense comes from the implication that you could have done the thing he did (buy something with a particular function) better without even trying. He didn't hear "Hey, cool thing. I might get something that does that too. Now that I think about it, I'd probably go to Ebay and find it at the lowest market price available." What he heard was "Wow, you must be really proud of your new thing. Now that I bother to think about it for a brief moment I could buy something that does that for waaaaay less than you paid if I wanted to. You are obviously an idiot for not thinking of that. I rule."

Most people don't have the self-assurance INTJs have. They are constantly on edge waiting for someone to agree with the voice in their head telling them they suck at life. So, even if you aren't agreeing with that voice, they will read into your actions to see if they can find that message and they often do.

but if there's any sort of hysteria involved I'm just useless. *It's like, if I can't see a problem to fix and the person is too hysterical to say what it is, I get frozen in place wondering what the problem is while everyone else has already moved in to comfort the person.

I know exactly what you mean. When I'm around strong emotions I just watch and try to figure out what is so important. Then, if I have a relationship with the person, it occurs to me that I should try to make them feel better. Then, if I have some idea what might be causing the pain I refer to past events to try and figure out what to do to generate positive feelings in them. Then, I recheck my proposed actions to make sure they aren't going to make things worse. Then, I take action and pause to judge the effect. If it's positive I repeat, if it's negative I start the cycle all over again.

It just takes way too long. the "Es" seem to be able to do all that without slow, plodding rational thought and they have a higher success rate to boot!

[Max T]

The offense comes from the implication that you could have done the thing he did (buy something with a particular function) better without even trying. He didn't hear "Hey, cool thing. I might get something that does that too. Now that I think about it, I'd probably go to Ebay and find it at the lowest market price available." What he heard was "Wow, you must be really proud of your new thing. Now that I bother to think about it for a brief moment I could buy something that does that for waaaaay less than you paid if I wanted to. You are obviously an idiot for not thinking of that. I rule."

Most people don't have the self-assurance INTJs have. They are constantly on edge waiting for someone to agree with the voice in their head telling them they suck at life. So, even if you aren't agreeing with that voice, they will read into your actions to see if they can find that message and they often do.

Absolutely- couldn't have said it better.
And for any friend of ours, we should avoid offending them, regardless of whether they've made a poor decision (sheez- I've so few friends I have to look after mine ;D).
Even an INTJ should muster sufficient tact to handle a friend with consideration.

There's truthfulness, accidental tactlessness and deliberate tactlessness (insulting).
If we make acccidental blunders hopefully our 'reputation' for truth compensates :thumbsup:

[cielo market]

The majority of people are not really worth knowing.

Amen!

[GOD]

1) Always being right...

2) Having sufficient funds for all contingencies... (So all the hanger-on's come pleading).

3) Sticking to your standards.

4) Doing rational things always.... imagine just doing stupid things on a whim..

5) Not getting excited by small achievements that seem to give most people a buzz.

6) Jumping any hurdle is just a precursor to a greater jump of faith... I'll jump any hurdle if I think enough.

[mind_wander]

I would say that this website is too addicting, its my new online addiction. Too much interesting information to learn. Everyday, I'm learning something new, which is a positive side. I would say, this website is like a double-edged sword.

[CatListener]

I've given up getting torked when people don't recognize my ideas, but that's only because I understand my weakness: having so much data floating through my head that I can't articulate it simple enough. I have a tough time knowing how to "dumb down" my thoughts to explain them.

I also have been accused of staring off in space during a conversation. I can't help it when my mind goes racing! ;)

[jtskinner]

Cons what cons? We're the only perfect specimens of humanity! ;D

[Bossy Mom]

I have been considered a hermit and not friendly. I like being alone with my dog, reading and quilting. I have never been social and sometimes I feel I need to attend a social event at work, but it is difficult. My daughter wants me to go to church with her, and while she is with her high school group, I sit in the back and to the side of the sanctuary alone and try to stay awake.

I find small talk intolerable, and feel very lucky when I meet someone who loves books as much as I do. I work with another INTJ who, like me, keeps a small notebook with lists of books we've read or plan to read. Some people might find that very strange; other INTJs would not.

I dislike shopping except for grocery shopping. I am looking forward to my daughter going to Minnesota over Thanksgiving so I can stay home and I don't have to take her shopping for MAC makeup or Abercrombie and Fitch clothes. I get to read and quilt. I may also paint my bedroom (I don't need to have her make a mess of it).

[HarleyQuinn]

Some of the cons have been listed but I'm listing them again for that extra, added oomph of emphasis :P

1: Laughing at inappropriate times/subjects. I always feel like I'm the only one doing so (and usually am) and I just can't help it. If a person trips and gets hurt, even the mental image just now is making me snicker and giggle. It's not the fact they got hurt that I'm laughing at but the whole event of tripping is the hilarious part but people just don't get that and than stare at me with strong dislike/hatred.

2: Not being able to small talk. I can kinda small talk when forced into it but it's still obvious when I want to move ahead in the conversation to get out of the small talk hole.

3: In class, coming up with a great point/observation and my teacher has to take a second to let it sink in what my point was while the rest of my class stares at me with confused or scrutinizing expressions like I'm trying to show them up...

4: Being called serious/intimidating and the negative societal associations with those labels sucks. Even when I'm perfectly at ease, people comment about how serious I am and that I should loosen up or relax sometimes.

[yllmar]

My primary problem with being an INTJ is being too cool for school. My secondary problem is not having or being able to show proper empathy to people I care for at appropriate times. Although if it wasn't for my wife I probably wouldn't care that I don't have empathy.

I'm in agreement with this. *An even bigger one for me is being able to communicate what I'm thinking. *Sometimes this can be so crippling that I begin to doubt I even know what I'm trying to talk about.

Edit:
I hate the way I have always been so hard on myself, perfectionistic; I went so many years thinking I was defective.

Oh, and that too.

[gwalchma]

I have to agree with just about everyone's list! The following is some "feedback" I have received throughout the years:

TOO Analytical
TOO Serious
TOO Insensitive and cold (That was when I was younger and hadn't learned appropriate facial expressions)
TOO Sensitive :thinking:
TOO Self-righteous (which is "sticking to my principles)
TOO Independent
TOO Flighty ::) (Who knows how they got that!)
TOO Argumentative :thumbsup:

I'm sure there were more but you get the idea! It's all subjective of course. From my point of view, I'm ok, they're ok! ;D Personally, I don't think we have any cons! Add TOO arrogant to the list. lol

[Wolfie]

I tend offend people from time to time although I'm older (42) and have figured out a lot of "artificial intelligence" about what offends people so I try and avoid repeating past mistakes.

One CON for me is that I can't let go of past small failures. I remember the people I offended all the way back to grade school, etc.

Also, I tend to be pretty hard on myself. I have so many great plans that I then don't follow through with (because there are only 24 hours in a day).



UGH! I KNOW! My mom says I should let go of things but she doesn't realize that I just simply can't! Some things are too big to pretend they don't exist. Embarrassing moments, tactless comments, and ignored facts(later brought to view) just never seem to go away! What is wrong?!?!?!??!!??!? Does anyone have a nice explanation for these things so that I can fix them and get on with life?
And what is this partial complete recall or whatever you call it/photographic memory about? It is so annoying sometimes when people don't remember things you do. I wish the world was like us... It wouldn't be such a hassle to talk to the rest of our population.

I don't like the way I can accidentally say socially inappropriate things so easily - things that sound selfish , closed-minded or undiplomatic.

I hate the way I have always been so hard on myself, perfectionistic; I went so many years thinking I was defective.

Wait...so what your saying is that I really might be as smart as my bro/sis? am I actually just being too hard on myself or am I really the stupidest one in my family?

Most people don't have the self-assurance INTJs have. They are constantly on edge waiting for someone to agree with the voice in their head telling them they suck at life. So, even if you aren't agreeing with that voice, they will read into your actions to see if they can find that message and they often do.

I thought everyone had that little voice waiting for you to make a mistake.

[Troublems]

Saying the wrong things at the wrong moments seems to come natural to me. (I mean, of course, the things I say sound perfect in my head but when I verbalize them there seems to be that awkward silence.)

Oh, and I was told just last week by a pseudo-friend that every thinks I'm a "cold hearted bitch"...but not to worry, as she says "You can't help it." Thanks.

[Tarrick]

Hey, I'm a "Cold-Hearted Bastard"! So much in common.

As for Cons...none that I can think of. I mean, I've learned to be able to analyze people's emotions using my N, and I generally keep my mouth shut until I understand the situation. Other then that...the only thing that I can think of is that being an I means that people can really get under my skin easily, especially with long term contact.

[Circe]

Tactless comments...
Small talk... I can feign it but I'm not great at it...not a good trait for a female.
Over analyzing. I analyze EVERYTHING.
Spontaneity. I occasionally wish I had even the remotest inclination for it.

Wolfie, do you have eidetic memory? That's really, really cool. :thumbsup: I have a good memory, but it's definitely not eidetic. I just pay more attention than others and notice things they don't.

[Paul V]

People call me an idealistic goodie-goodie with a holier-than-thou attitude or a cold, arrogant smartass. I suppose it depends on my moods.

[The Many]

I just wrote a long post here, then clicked reset... quite shows that my biggest problem these days seems to be my absent-mindedness. I deal with the world outside my mind in quite a bad way (that's what you get with 100% intuitive)... I do, for instance, never seem to be able to react in the correct way when girls (and admittedly, also guys :-? ) flirt with me. But if someone doesn't get what you do, then it is really, in the end, their problem, not mine.

Of course there are, or at least have been, bigger problems though - for instance I have spent months in suicidal depression, just as my social life as a kid and (early and mid-)teenager is not to be mentioned. It barely existed anyway. Not to mention falling in love (for the first, and only time so far) with an ESTP after knowing her for five minutes, and what then obviously happened with that romance; or perhaps me being so hard on myself that I left a relationship at least partly due to not thinking I could make her happy (which she at least claimed I did).

These days, though, I appear to be doing quite well, having, at 19, formulated a philosophical system (no, not the ordinary teenage kind of them either - I did one like that at 17), managed to get a social life, I have great grades, and have really managed to follow through my plans so far. I really think that if you just approach your problems, you will be able to solve them and end up stronger afterwards. Many INTJ "weaknesses", such as that old dislike for small-talk, are sometimes even strengths - you will be able to communicate with others on a deeper level, making conversations both more interesting and more rewarding for those involved. And, once again, if someone doesn't get it it's really their problem.

[Ryokurin]

1. I find that I need to speak slowly to get out what I want to say, or I will stutter or stammer to get out the basic things. This wouldn't be a problem, but my mother growing up used to force me to speak quicker so I'm constantly trying to speak faster than I can think 20 years later. I also used to have issues with speech, specifically with Th and S (for instance three sounded like free) this has kind of made me always conscious about my speech.

2. I can't forgive and forget things that I have done wrong and the issues just seem to pop up at random. I'll think back to some time when I was an asshole to a kid when I was 10, or how I was clueless to some woman flirting with me last week for no rhyme or reason and it just makes me cringe. I get that I'm searching back for info to never do it again but sometimes I just wish I could just turn it off as its almost like an anxiety attack.

3. I'm a pretty laid back and collected person, but If I want to be mean to someone, sometimes I go way too far and act like a complete dick to them. I'm taking it as giving them exactly what they wanted but others see it as I'm just being a heartless emotionless bastard to them.

4. I can't seem to get the appropriate emotion or rapport function right when it comes to people. I've been called emotionless so many times I can't count it. If I'm trying to make it a point to let people in I tend to give them too much information or say something in a matter of fact way that just pisses them off, so typically I just don't say anything at all, or avoid people in principal as I know they won't understand where i'm coming from.

5. The fact that I can just walk away from something I see as a lost cause has caused me to lose a ton of friends. I see it as moving on, they see it as me just using them for the time I've known them and now I'm over them and throwing them out.

[Provoker]

My big con as an INTJ is that I was born without a "think twice before speaking" filter. I will routinely say the most incredibly blunt, insensitive, and otherwise inappropriate things, and then anywhere from a nanosecond to several days later, I will recall the incident and ask myself, why in the #@$! did I say that??!?

DB

I was like this when I was younger and offended a lot of people. For example, I remember being about 5 years old at my mothers friend's house who was an overweight lady and she was showing my mom her new excersize bike. I remember the setting quite vividly, and I said "you could really use that", LMAO. In another circumstance, I was in grade 2 (about 7 yrs old) and my Jewish teacher who I was in love with sent me to the office. So when I saw her coming down the hall from a distance I had a big Nazi sympol drawn in my notebook and I tilted it so that she could see it. This was retribution for sending me to the office. Mom got called for that scheme. Anyways, over the years I learned to repress those natural intuitions that come to mind.

However, even at 22 if I get drinking I will give my intuitions free reign and I can be intellectually 'out of control' with who I offend or what I say.

[Antares]

I find it difficult when:

1) People can't accept my 'weirdness', and when they expect me to conform to the norm on every aspect because to some of them, like my mother, 'weirdness' sticks out like a sore thumb and it's 'abnormal' and 'very extreme'.
2) People think I'm cold and unfeeling when I deal with things minus emotions.
3) People never really told me about this, but I think I'm arrogant too.
4) I'm 'too' objective, not subjective enough.
5) I'm really irked when people don't make sense or don't approach life with a logical way, because I impose my own personal expectations on them.
6) I try to suppress my emotions. It can be very painful sometimes.
7) I offend people without ever meaning it or even knowing it.

[yam]

1. I don't think about others too much. People can crying, screaming, or anything like that, but I will stay silent, or continuing my activity with no respond of their screaming
2. I don't have a good relationship with other people. I don't like to have a chat about anything that is not so important for me. If they still insist me to participate in their discussion, I usually stay silent, or may be ignore them by doing another activity
3. The worst part is that I don't feel so sad because of it(about making people sad, or anything like that) I know that I should regret it(especially after I read this thread). But, I don't.... uh, I hate myself now:(

[Zilal]

The biggest problem for me is the tendency to want to think rather than act. This has probably gotten me into more trouble than anything else... then again, for a long time I was probably an example of an "unhealthy" INTJ, and maybe still am, as I'm working through another depressive episode now. If I were healthier I might not think there were any cons at all. The social ineptitude, the perfectionism, etc. are all just minor issues when I'm feeling better.

[thod]

"The biggest problem for me is the tendency to want to think rather than act."

Maybe you are an INTP then. The task is to understand the problem and how it could be solved. The actual "doing" is a boring exercise since you already know the result.

[Richard0612]

The biggest problem for me is the tendency to want to think rather than act.I'm a bit like that, but I feel better once I've come to a conclusion and solved something. For me the three biggest 'problems' [if you want to call them that] with being an INTJ are:
Not giving two hoots about social engagements. If I go shopping, it's by myself, that way I get to choose what I buy and don't have someone yabbering in my ear all the time.
Hating small talk and gossip about celebrites. "Ooh, look, doesn't *insert stupid model/pop star* look nice in this photo!"... Yes, great, why do I care again?
Analysing everything. Speaks for itself.

[Jgib5328]

1. I intimidate people all the time, especially girls.
2. I am not naturally charming, so it is hard to get people on my side (I care about this because in order to achieve great things you usually need other people. So they are a means to my end.)
3. People misunderstand you all of the time.
4. Hard to make friends unless I 'soften' up my personality.
5. Since I'm introverted, no women.

[Caramel]

I was like this when I was younger and offended a lot of people. For example, I remember being about 5 years old at my mothers friend's house who was an overweight lady and she was showing my mom her new excersize bike. I remember the setting quite vividly, and I said "you could really use that", LMAO. In another circumstance, I was in grade 2 (about 7 yrs old) and my Jewish teacher who I was in love with sent me to the office. So when I saw her coming down the hall from a distance I had a big Nazi sympol drawn in my notebook and I tilted it so that she could see it. This was retribution for sending me to the office. Mom got called for that scheme. Anyways, over the years I learned to repress those natural intuitions that come to mind.

However, even at 22 if I get drinking I will give my intuitions free reign and I can be intellectually 'out of control' with who I offend or what I say.

ROFL @ bike and overweight lady :D

I'm exactly like this. Only people tend to like me for it, for some reason. (Ofcourse not the people who the comments are made against, they usually aren't too happy.)

For example, yesterday I was trying to find a free seat in a train, when the train changed tracks and shaked a bit, so I lost my balance, almost fell down and stepped on someones foot..with high heels (auch).

I was too busy trying to keep my balance (and not ending up on this persons lap, hurting him even more) that I forgot to mumble 'sorry' to the person.

I start to walk off when the person grabs my arm and says "Madam, this hurts". I reply with "Yes, I can imagine tha" and try to continue on my way.

"Aren't you going to say something about this?"

"No, why would I? You seem perfectly capable of stating that you are hurt yourself. You just did, in fact. No need for me to state the obvious."

Ofcourse, this being a public transport train, other pasagers started grinning by now. I still didn't realise the person was fishing for a 'sorry'. The person was getting mad by now and raised his voice to me, speaking: "Madam, don't you have any common courtesy? You're looking at me as if I'm not from this planet!"

At that point I blurted out "Well, you do kind of remind me of that movie ' planet of the apes', but that would indicate you are from this planet, just not as highly evolved.. "

realising what I just said, I zipped my mouth, turned red and ran off, leaving the man speechless and a rather large crowd smirking.

:embarassed:

[PortInStorm]

Wow, that's a really tough story to follow, LOL!

I find the combo of thinking efficiency and secret emotional sensitivity hard. Actually, I think I have a really high F, but eventually T always wins over. So I was always seeking close relationships with certain people, forming quick and deep attachments to them (of course, they're unknowing since I don't show anything), and then being hurt because they don't consider me special. I think I've managed to find what I'm looking for, so that particularly painful stage is past. Plus, I've learned to stop the attachment process.

But the efficiency would cause me to ditch developing relationships that I knew wouldn't satisfy. On top of that, I'd try to satisfy loved ones' wishes with my thinking efficiency, only to have them hate me for it, saying it's insensitive. Example, I have someone calling me several times a day, and my husband's tired of it. So the next time they called, he answered and handed it over to me, and I promptly hung up without saying anything. My ESFJ husband exclaimed over it. He wants the results, but doesn't want to do the dirty work. I actually think he likes that I do it, and I guess I don't mind. I just don't like being blamed for it.

[Obstinate]

People tell me I constantly look uncomfortable. but I don't know how to look "comfortable". It sucks.

[Tokey41]

People tell me I constantly look uncomfortable. but I don't know how to look "comfortable". It sucks.


Agreed. I don't know why, but I guess sometimes I just look awkward without knowing it. Also forcing small talk... I really hate trying to do that, I like to get to the point and leave but to some people that may come off as cold.

[errrzarrr]

My principal downside is social relationships and I CANT (I really cant) be hipocrite. I am so direct (somehow honest) with my words that I can hurt sometimes.

Anyway, I am paying more attetion to those behaviors and I am reading a Dale Carnegie book.





errrzarrr added to this post, 1 minutes and 36 seconds later...

People tell me I constantly look uncomfortable. but I don't know how to look "comfortable". It sucks.

being comfortable, maybe. (?)





errrzarrr added to this post, 4 minutes and 8 seconds later...

1. I intimidate people all the time, especially girls.
2. I am not naturally charming, so it is hard to get people on my side (I care about this because in order to achieve great things you usually need other people. So they are a means to my end.)
3. People misunderstand you all of the time.
4. Hard to make friends unless I 'soften' up my personality.
5. Since I'm introverted, no women.

I do have friends. But it is difficult to me to "connect", therefore Is hard for me to have friends (those who are my friends are REALLY my friends) due the INTJ part but mostly because I have lived in 3 different cities and I have been in 5 schools (4schools plus university) in my short live of 23 years. And I am not really outgoing, I can go out to party, but I really don't feel involved.

[dandylion]

I remember a few years ago I went on a summer trip to Vancouver Island, Canada with my sister, my mom, and my grandma. One day we were going to the beach, and I was happy about that, but I guess it didn't show because my cousin quietly commented to my sister that I looked depressed or completely devoid of emotion, and my sister rebuked me for that. "Stop being angry," she said to which I stoically responded, "But I'm not... I don't feel anything." It's not my fault I rarely get truly excited over anything...

In junior high, my former best friend commented that my voice often sounded impassive. In my freshman year of high school, I frequently wore a blank expression on my face. Hehe, my physical ed. teacher looked disturbed every time he saw me like that; I could see it in his eyes. Then he'd always say, "Smile, will ya?!!"

My friends are used to it by now so they don't take any offense. Whenever they'd say something like, "Oh my gosh! That is SO cute!" I'd just flatly repeat, usually sarcastically, "Yeah. Adorable."

[AgentofGaming]

1. I intimidate people all the time, especially girls.
2. I am not naturally charming, so it is hard to get people on my side (I care about this because in order to achieve great things you usually need other people. So they are a means to my end.)
3. People misunderstand you all of the time.
4. Hard to make friends unless I 'soften' up my personality.
5. Since I'm introverted, no women.
Same, that's why people think I'm angry all the time. ;D
Acquaintances and strangers rarely approach me. I end up so isolationist without even trying.

[lowbrass]

People tell me I constantly look uncomfortable. but I don't know how to look "comfortable". It sucks.

What I hate is that when I'm confronted like that, there's almost never a good answer. You're already guilty until proven innocent, and there's no way to prove your innocence. I had this happen and got put on the spot - THAT ultimately made me more uncomfortable, and in turn, my response wasn't pleasant, digging myself a bigger hole.

[Uberfuhrer]

Okay, here's my first real post, but I don't know if this rings true to everyone...

I come across as cynical.
I am shy around the opposite sex and other people in general.
I can be anal-retentive at times.
I can often become vividly paranoid.
People often find my comments and actions offensive.
I often plan but never do.
I tend not to like change unless I'm in control of it.
I often get headaches from thinking too much.

[lowbrass]

Okay, here's my first real post, but I don't know if this rings true to everyone...

I come across as cynical.
I am shy around the opposite sex and other people in general.
I can be anal-retentive at times.
I can often become vividly paranoid.
People often find my comments and actions offensive.
I often plan but never do.
I tend not to like change unless I'm in control of it.
I often get headaches from thinking too much.


Welcome! Regarding your list - I am led to question: are you a virgo?

If not, most of those things are areas that INTJs relate to, and there are others, I think, which seem to be ISTJ related. BUT, it may just mean your N ebbs and flows.. like mine.

[Uberfuhrer]

Welcome! Regarding your list - I am led to question: are you a virgo?

If not, most of those things are areas that INTJs relate to, and there are others, I think, which seem to be ISTJ related. BUT, it may just mean your N ebbs and flows.. like mine.

No, I'm a Pisces sun, Cancer moon, and Gemini rising. And my Socionics type is ENTp (ILE).

Although most tests label me as a Scorpio or Aquarius. I actually made MBTI, Enneagram, and Zodiac correlations at MBTIc. I grouped all water signs into NF, air signs into NT, earth signs into SJ, and fire signs into SP. I placed Virgo as xSFJ because it's the service-oriented sign, while I placed Cancer as xNFJ, since it's a nurturing sign -- not nurturing in physical form, because as a water sign, it is more interested in spiritual growth.

As for not liking change, I tend not to like it because it forces me to come out of my imaginary world. I'm not anal-retentive in that I pay close attention to detail of things in my surroundings, but I tend to plan things thoroughly to make sure there are no flaws, and I usually obsess about the plan. I often tend to look at my paranoia as creative inspiration, as well.

But in no way am I like Simon Pegg in Hot Fuzz!

[Wapiti]

My biggest con, the thing I hate the absolute most about being an intj is that when I make a mistake - at least what I see as a mistake, I will replay and relive that mistake in my head over and over and over........

[Jgib5328]

No, I'm a Pisces sun, Cancer moon, and Gemini rising. And my Socionics type is ENTp (ILE).
[/I]

How are you an INTJ and an ENTp? That makes no sense. I know socionics are a little different, but how do you go from being introverted to extroverted? It's impossible you are born one way or the other, it's in the make-up of your brain.

[Santana28]

oh god... too many to list. but i'd say a big one on my list would be my NEED for *facts* and *proof* and *evidence* to confirm and back up my plans before i am willing to take action on any of them. even if i have to manufacture those facts for myself. i've had to somewhat train myself to "jump off cliffs" and plan acts of randomness in order to keep me on my toes and open-minded. the way i look at it... things aren't so bad if you lay off of the reigns every once in a while and just coast... just make sure they are VERY close at hand ;)

[Antares]

2. I am not naturally charming, so it is hard to get people on my side (I care about this because in order to achieve great things you usually need other people. So they are a means to my end.)

Same here. I've been told by many people that I'm pretty, smart, sensible and all that, but when choosing a friend, a girl is bound to pick someone else over me. A girl recently got acquainted with me, and we had a lot of fun talking about... Just anything. But after she talked to my other friend, she completely ignored me, besides the occasional 'hi's. They talked about pretty much the same things I talked about to her, but somehow, I'm just not a people-magnet like some of my classmates. They're real naturals. People would choose them over me any day, even if they don't know the two of us and we aren't making a sound. Is it something about me that drives them away? Or is it because I have this vacant and sometimes piercing look about me whereas my peers have vibrant and vivacious expressions?

5. Since I'm introverted, no women.

I do fine with guys, I guess. I had a boyfriend and a couple of guys liked me before, but I never worked up the courage to really 'flirt' with anyone, much less ask them out. They are more like my brothers than anything and most of them are very willing to talk to me. I make fast friends with guys.





Camelopardalis added to this post, 36 minutes and 42 seconds later...

No, I'm a Pisces sun, Cancer moon, and Gemini rising. And my Socionics type is ENTp (ILE).


Another Pisces here. I'm Pisces Sun, Pisces moon, Aries Rising. I think I'm something of a cross between Scorpio and Virgo, and the tickle test says Scorpio.

[Santana28]

Another Pisces here. I'm Pisces Sun, Pisces moon, Aries Rising. I think I'm something of a cross between Scorpio and Virgo, and the tickle test says Scorpio.

<~~ Pisces Sun, Sagittarius Moon, Sagittarius Rising here

[youngblooded]

A big con I would say I have faced is other people's lack of respect or co operation with me due to my differant methods. But I seriously think they are bunch of idiots.

[Gabrielle]

I have quite a few cons I've felt, but here are the major ones:

1. I can't rest. I just can't. I can't sit around and be idle, and apparently this is very tiring for those around me, since I am always doing something - reading a book, writing a letter, studying, teaching, working, e.t.c. And since being like that is about as natural as breathing for me, and I usually tend to believe that people are better than me in most things, I automatically assume that they will be able to move in the same speed as me, or even faster. I have since then learned that this is not the case, and in fact, I seem to be far more productive than the others. Needless to say this causes mental fatigue and irritability in others.

2. Clear lack of concern for the authority. As far as I'm concerned, I'm not going to obey orders just because he's some emeritus hotshot, he'd better convince me that he is, in fact, better than I am. Of course, this creates a double punch for them, because I'm being disobedient (which they're used to, by the authority) AND I'm better than they are at that particular subject.

3. Obsessive to the point of neurosis. This has created a very unbalanced personality, where in the academia I might be age 21 but socially speaking I am about 12. And a male.

4. Cannot express emotions. I can talk alright, about logic and politics and philosophy. However, when it comes to me in particular and how I feel, I get stuck.

5. Sticking to plans. I'm ANAL about sticking to plans. Unless some disaster occurs, I would not allow plans to divert. I plan out my day, I plan out my trips, I plan out my life. Apparently this can get irritating.

6. Unable to hold conversations. The only thing I can talk about comes from the academic field. Throw me relationship conversations and I'm screwed.

7. Expressionless. Usually I am expressionless, and apparently that can become creepy.

8. Intimidating. Oh, the woe! Not only I'm relatively tall, look confident (apparently) and look smart, my vocabulary seems to scare many people off. Quoth one classmate: "you talk to her and you think that she thinks you're an ant."

9. Categorizing. I tend to try to SQUISH everything into categories. If something doesn't fit, I get frustrated.

10. Empathy VS Objective. Apparently when most females want to talk about their problems, all they want is sympathy and agreement that whatever happened wasn't her fault, it was the guy/the weather/whatever else's fault. Being a J, I judge rather than perceive, and give objective criticisms rather than "oh, it's not your fault darling" thing. This made many of my female friends angry.

I have loads more, but I think my main problem is social relationships. I am quite ready to die an old loner :-P

[Provoker]

9. Categorizing. I tend to try to SQUISH everything into categories. If something doesn't fit, I get frustrated.


That's interesting. I often do this as well. You call it squashing things into categories, I call it compartmentalizing. I think this contributes to our mastermind genius. We are constantly assorting information, putting ideas into files, files into boxes, and boxes into storage rooms in the basement of our minds. This is my system. Everything is stratigically compartmentalized in my mind stored in the ROM. The RAM is my intellect and can intuitively extract files that have been stored for years. I am not certain that this is a con - it may even be a source for mastery and contingency planning.

[Obstinate]

I have quite a few cons I've felt, but here are the major ones:

1. I can't rest. I just can't. I can't sit around and be idle, and apparently this is very tiring for those around me, since I am always doing something - reading a book, writing a letter, studying, teaching, working, e.t.c. And since being like that is about as natural as breathing for me, and I usually tend to believe that people are better than me in most things, I automatically assume that they will be able to move in the same speed as me, or even faster. I have since then learned that this is not the case, and in fact, I seem to be far more productive than the others. Needless to say this causes mental fatigue and irritability in others.

2. Clear lack of concern for the authority. As far as I'm concerned, I'm not going to obey orders just because he's some emeritus hotshot, he'd better convince me that he is, in fact, better than I am. Of course, this creates a double punch for them, because I'm being disobedient (which they're used to, by the authority) AND I'm better than they are at that particular subject.

3. Obsessive to the point of neurosis. This has created a very unbalanced personality, where in the academia I might be age 21 but socially speaking I am about 12. And a male.

4. Cannot express emotions. I can talk alright, about logic and politics and philosophy. However, when it comes to me in particular and how I feel, I get stuck.

5. Sticking to plans. I'm ANAL about sticking to plans. Unless some disaster occurs, I would not allow plans to divert. I plan out my day, I plan out my trips, I plan out my life. Apparently this can get irritating.

6. Unable to hold conversations. The only thing I can talk about comes from the academic field. Throw me relationship conversations and I'm screwed.

7. Expressionless. Usually I am expressionless, and apparently that can become creepy.

8. Intimidating. Oh, the woe! Not only I'm relatively tall, look confident (apparently) and look smart, my vocabulary seems to scare many people off. Quoth one classmate: "you talk to her and you think that she thinks you're an ant."

9. Categorizing. I tend to try to SQUISH everything into categories. If something doesn't fit, I get frustrated.

10. Empathy VS Objective. Apparently when most females want to talk about their problems, all they want is sympathy and agreement that whatever happened wasn't her fault, it was the guy/the weather/whatever else's fault. Being a J, I judge rather than perceive, and give objective criticisms rather than "oh, it's not your fault darling" thing. This made many of my female friends angry.

I have loads more, but I think my main problem is social relationships. I am quite ready to die an old loner :-P
Dear God you took the words straight out of my mouth.

[Windmill]

A big con is that you find a lot of things rather dull and tiring that are necessary to do in society- like small talk.

Shesh small talk is just dang awful but it is necessary.

I also agree with the non-resting thing. I can't rest either. I always have to do something.

I am very lucky- I believe in the seventh day sabbath of the Bible so I have a whole day to just chill. Without it I'd probably die.

My lack of rest and calmness has had, for my whole life (even when I was like 5) stopped me from sleeping much. I am lucky to get 8 hours of sleep, 5-7 hours being my usual amount, ever since I was about 5 to present (I'm 17).

Also- you are often not appreciated as leadership material. I know that I'm a good leader- well can be when I want to be. But people who are more social hence more liked get picked, and you know they suck at the job, and it pains you that you could do better, but you can't get into the position of power to do it. So theres another con.

[ps646566]

Most of these 'cons' can actually be overcome sufficiently in order to get along with people to a satisfactory degree, and to live a 'normal life'. But it takes some effort. The comfort zone is to convince oneself that that is how one is, can't change basic traits, people can take it or leave it etc. Many, if not most, people will leave it. The other way is, having recognised the issues, to work on ameliorating their adverse impact on quality of life. This is not easiest short term solution, but is the optimal long term solution.

It is often said that a disproportionately large percentage of high achievers in business, politics, academia etc are of the INTJ personality type. These are undoubtedly among those who have decided not to let potentially adverse personality traits adversely affect their quality of life. Even most moderate achievers probably have done this to a significant extent.

[Windmill]

Oh of course- most of these can be overcome, but a lot of them will never be pleasent i.e. small talk. I don't think many INTJ's will ever find that fun. I myself am not natural and have taught myself how to do it, and can now hold conversations fine- you just ask a lot of questions! :laugh: people love talking about themselves.

However, the uptight constantly-thinking problem which can sometimes be good sometimes a curse I don't think is ever overcome.

[iamnotspock]

Major INTJ con: Discounting importance of motivation.

This is true when dealing with both self and other. I forget to praise employees who did a good job. And I forget to give myself an incentive to get things done. The difference between success and failure for me has usually been my motivation.

[quentin]

I don't seem to be able to make that natural, easy connection with other people the way that most other types seem to be able to do. Alienation is by far the biggest drawback of being an INTJ.

[Avenger]

I don't seem to be able to make that natural, easy connection with other people the way that most other types seem to be able to do. Alienation is by far the biggest drawback of being an INTJ.


Same for me, the only exception so far is a ENFP who went in my class in school. It took us about a day to connect and become best friends.
Aside from that, all of my relations are built up over several years.

[Caramel]

Completely offtopic but Avenger, I love your avatar. Pear pressure? XD

[Avenger]

It's what it appears to be. =)

[brainiac]

One thing that I do is sit around for hours thinking of a way to do for example, my landscaping. I will be exhausted after a couple hours and not have done a thing, only in my head. Once I do finish the project, it is perfect. I have never regretted anything that I've set out to do because I invested a lot of time thinking and re thinking what I was to do.

[Cytastic]

One major problem I've got is that I can't seem to get out of fix-it mode while listening to someone's issue. Instead of just nodding sympathetically, and adding "You're right," and "Yep, that guy is a jerk" at the appropriate times, I'll often look at a situation from every party's perspective - out loud. This is particularly troublesome at work, what with office politics, because here I am trying to understand why there is conflict and I get accused of taking sides instead. Pisses me off to no end.

[EastCoast]

One major problem I've got is that I can't seem to get out of fix-it mode while listening to someone's issue. Instead of just nodding sympathetically, and adding "You're right," and "Yep, that guy is a jerk" at the appropriate times, I'll often look at a situation from every party's perspective - out loud. This is particularly troublesome at work, what with office politics, because here I am trying to understand why there is conflict and I get accused of taking sides instead. Pisses me off to no end.

Oh my god, I do exactly the same thing, but what happens to me is that no matter where I work, I end up being the unofficial psychologist or dear abby. it's just as well i'm discreet because people tell me everything. not just at work. I was in the rental car office for just 15 minutes last week and heard all about someones mother who had been hit by a drunker driver and how the mother had never had a drink in her life, etc. i am incredulous when i hear what people tell me. I'm so glad that it's not just me. although, i never get accused of taking sides. you must be rather strict.

[youngblooded]

I believe one of my greatest weakness is that I'm extremely lousy at things that don't require thinking. What about you guys?

[Cytastic]

I'm so glad that it's not just me. although, i never get accused of taking sides. you must be rather strict.

For me, the hard aspect of interpersonal relations is that things have to make sense, and I tend to dwell on a topic until they do. Unfortunately, most people do not act/think like me (the other 99%), and I have to understand their motivations so their behavior makes sense to me. So long as I can look at things from their perspective, and I can see the rhyme and reason (even if the rhythm is Klingon), I can understand why they do the things they do. I may not agree with them, but at least I can move on to more important things.

Come to think of it, this is the #1 reason I like being introverted - it takes too much effort to figure out what the hell other people are doing.

Anyway, this approach is fraught with peril if I'm dealing with a colleague who is venting about another co-worker, and I'm stuck in fix-it mode:

"I don't understand why PersonX did that! He's out to get me!"
"Well, if you look at it from his perspective, he isn't, he's just doing his job. Besides, I don't think he meant for things to turn out the way they did."
"Why are you siding with him? I thought you were my friend?!"
Oh, crap.

[gillyweet]

1) I overthink things. I try to look at things from as many angles and possible and try to understand all the different perspectives. Especially when it comes to problems. So i get comments that i worry too much, when i'm actually just exploring the problems. I especially hate it when people ask me what's wrong and when i (rarely) explain it to them, they go, it's so simple! and proceed to give advice without considering all the implications. blah blah blah.

2) I cannot act things which i don't feel. For example, if my friend goes, "OH! IT'S SO CUTE!" and i don't think it is... i can't rearrange my facial features or tone of voice to agree. i usually end up saying something sarcastic or not saying anything or saying something non-committal. My face is like an open book if you read carefully. BUT BUT BUT, then again, i've managed to hide it well enough so that most people don't notice, however, i'm in a theatre course, and most of the "more observant" people in the class, meaning the lecturers and some of my close friends, can read the hidden expression.

3) I think before i talk. So when contributing ideas in class discussions, i keep on getting interrupted. My class is full of EFSPs (i'm in a theatre foundation programme, planning to specialise in technical theatre, but got shoved with the actors for the first year.) and they speak without thinking, so i'm always half a second after them, it's even more unbearable when they sprout random nonsense which is not relevant to the topic of discussion, and when i finally say what i want to say, they think that i'm trying to "show off".

4) I cannot relax. I will not relax. Or my idea of relaxation is completely different from 98% of the population. I think it's particularly terrible in theatre because we do vocal work and vocal work requires relaxation so that breath can be channeled. And i refuse to let my mind wander off into nothingness. I end up ruthlessly self-reflecting during those "relaxation" periods. So people constantly tell me that i'm over-working and to relax more.


i just realised that i cannot act and am in a theatre course. sigh. thank goodness i get to specialise next year.

[Caramel]

I experienced a con to the infamous INTJ stare today.

Was at the candy store when I spotted a young boy at one of the candy lanes. He looks back at me, very nervous and insecure, as if he was doing something bad. So I just look at him, wondering what he is up to.

He slowly stretches out his arm, opens up his hand, revealing a small jellybean. In stead of putting it in his mouth he innocently puts it back into the lane. After which his face turns sad and he beings to cry while running back to his dad for shelter. "I didn't steal candy, honestly" he cried. Well, he did, but now I feel bad, cause I made a kid cry by just staring at him. :(

[Antares]

Okay, here's my first real post, but I don't know if this rings true to everyone...

I come across as cynical.
I am shy around the opposite sex and other people in general.
I can be anal-retentive at times.
I can often become vividly paranoid.
People often find my comments and actions offensive.
I often plan but never do.
I tend not to like change unless I'm in control of it.
I often get headaches from thinking too much.


Ones in bold are true for me. I'm not shy around the opposite sex, in fact, I'm much more wild than an average girl should be. I have no pity for the guys' ego and I'm one of the people who are good at insulting a guy down to his core. I've been told that I look soft, pretty and lively, but my personality and behavior totally turns this image upside down. When guys boast their own achievements, girls would usually go: "Wow!" I would raise my eyebrows and say something like: "Right. And...?" Maybe it's because I'm way too stereotypically 'masculine' for them to like me. No guys for me, although I did receive an anonymous valentine (I'm really curious about who it is, but I probably won't reciprocate whatever it is) :p I'm not that paranoid. I'm usually overly-secure.

I'm usually the 'offensive' type. I don't really understand it. My ENFP friend said something like: "Well, Joe really wouldn't see me as one of the prettier girls." I didn't really know what I should say for that, so I commented randomly: "I don't know about him, but I see you as a Heroes fan (I love it)." She was offended! She thought I hated the show and think that Heroes fans are bad.

Usually, after prolonged introspection and thinking, I always feel that my head would burst and if anyone wants to make me think when I'm having a headache, I ignore them completely. "Hey, what do you think of ___." "Don't make me think right now unless you want my brains to asplode all over your face."

[Sleeper]

I experienced a con to the infamous INTJ stare today.

Was at the candy store when I spotted a young boy at one of the candy lanes. He looks back at me, very nervous and insecure, as if he was doing something bad. So I just look at him, wondering what he is up to.

He slowly stretches out his arm, opens up his hand, revealing a small jellybean. In stead of putting it in his mouth he innocently puts it back into the lane. After which his face turns sad and he beings to cry while running back to his dad for shelter. "I didn't steal candy, honestly" he cried. Well, he did, but now I feel bad, cause I made a kid cry by just staring at him. :(

Yeah, that happens to me as well, I was siting in the dining room when my cousin(at the time, still a child) walked in, all I had to do was look at her direction wondering what she was doing and she just suddenly froze with the scared expression and walked right out.

It is a useful tool but people always seem to interpret it the wrong way. I honestly can't help looking annoyed when I actually aren't.

[HeartlessWolf]

The fact that I come off as "heartless" and "rude" is sometimes very annoying. People always tell me I need to smile or that I look "too serious". I don't know what that is, I feel perfectly at easy at some of those times, and frankly, I don't see what there is to "smile" about half of the time. People seem to needlessly hug and smile and kiss, and when I don't, they mark me as an outcast.

These have all been pointed out earlier, but getting the thoughts "in" your head and translating them into "speech" is often difficult and I'm left puzzled as to why my statement didn't get the reaction I expected.

Another thing that most people don't understand is our sense of humor. As someone pointed out earlier, sometimes the thought alone is what makes us laugh, and sometimes its the circumstances, usually never someones actual misfortune. The thought of someone tripping does make me snicker a little.

eh, I don't know if we'll ever be understood....

[malefide]

- Difficulty in making/finding suitable friends
- Compassion does not come easily for me...at least it doesn't come easily when other people think it should
- I am my worst critic. I push myself toward "perfect" almost to self-destruction
- I'm really picky

[sriv]

Cons of being an INTJ IMO I cannot express emotion as clearly as I may want to use it for certain types of manipulation. Other than that, being an INTJ is pretty awesome.

[Uberfuhrer]

The Fe types will consider these cons, but I don't:

Refusal to hear anyone's thoughts but my own.
I treat people like objects (I really don't see that much of a difference).
I have my own opinions on issues.And here are some of my own cons:

People are jealous of my nonconformist behavior, which is great in and of itself, but their jealousy leads them to try and destroy me.
I am confused for a slacker when, really, I just have my own goals.
I eat a lot when I get stressed, so it's not good for my physical appearance.
I have many weird anxieties and phobias.
I am powerless to control things in the way that I really, really want to.
Sometimes, life just doesn't end up as I had predicted it in my mind, and it really discourages me.

[OddFactor]

YES! I was trying to explain to my mom a while back that sometimes I have to stop and think about what my facial expression is so I can make sure it matches people's expectations in those awkward emotional moments. She thought that was the weirdest thing ever.

My mom still doesn't understand my nature. I tried to explain many times but she doesn't believe me/can't understand and just thinks I don't care about anything... so I stopped caring about it and let it go.

[Solaris]

1) I overthink things. I try to look at things from as many angles and possible and try to understand all the different perspectives. Especially when it comes to problems. So i get comments that i worry too much, when i'm actually just exploring the problems. I especially hate it when people ask me what's wrong and when i (rarely) explain it to them, they go, it's so simple! and proceed to give advice without considering all the implications. blah blah blah.

2) I cannot act things which i don't feel. For example, if my friend goes, "OH! IT'S SO CUTE!" and i don't think it is... i can't rearrange my facial features or tone of voice to agree. i usually end up saying something sarcastic or not saying anything or saying something non-committal. My face is like an open book if you read carefully. BUT BUT BUT, then again, i've managed to hide it well enough so that most people don't notice, however, i'm in a theatre course, and most of the "more observant" people in the class, meaning the lecturers and some of my close friends, can read the hidden expression.

3) I think before i talk. So when contributing ideas in class discussions, i keep on getting interrupted. My class is full of EFSPs (i'm in a theatre foundation programme, planning to specialise in technical theatre, but got shoved with the actors for the first year.) and they speak without thinking, so i'm always half a second after them, it's even more unbearable when they sprout random nonsense which is not relevant to the topic of discussion, and when i finally say what i want to say, they think that i'm trying to "show off".

4) I cannot relax. I will not relax. Or my idea of relaxation is completely different from 98% of the population. I think it's particularly terrible in theatre because we do vocal work and vocal work requires relaxation so that breath can be channeled. And i refuse to let my mind wander off into nothingness. I end up ruthlessly self-reflecting during those "relaxation" periods. So people constantly tell me that i'm over-working and to relax more.


i just realised that i cannot act and am in a theatre course. sigh. thank goodness i get to specialise next year.

Subtract the theater stuff from your post and it sounds very much like me. Funny in that "weird, oh man how terrible, but is it really terrible?" kinda way.


I "relax" by running 10 miles or cleaning for 4 hours. When I really try to "relax" I pick everything apart with blunt (and when I apply blunt to myself, I meant the same ruthlessness you mentioned) honesty in my journal.

Hah! I should be in a padded room somewhere. :scared:

[Richard0612]

Hah! I should be in a padded room somewhere. :scared:

As long as said padded cell had a computer w/Internet access and/or an endless supply of books I'd gladly go there voluntarily. Locked away from the rest of society with all the knowledge I could ever want! :book:

[Joxstrap]

I don't consciously do it, but quite often people ask me what i'm all pissed about, or they imitate my pissed off face that i never knew i was putting on. Even when i'm enjoying myself, sometimes i have an angry face.

What i love about being an INTJ is that, even if i find a have a flaw, i will work to better that that flaw, and never give up. So with the problem of interpersonal relationships, especially talking to females and such, i have begun to study/find out more about talking to /picking up chicks. That's the great thing about the internet, you can find any sort of information. So for you guys that have problems talking to/making girls like you/picking them up go check out some info on Pickup Artists or PUAs. I have found a lot of interesting and useful information to help me improve my interpersonal interactions.





Joxstrap added to this post, 10 minutes and 26 seconds later...

And for some of you who couldn't be bothered researching the above posts, here are some hints that go well with the INTJ personality that i have found very useful when trying to talk to girls:

Make fun of girls
Act slightly superior
Be funny (anything will do, you don't have to be a very funny person)
Never do what girls ask you to do (unless she is just a friend and you want to keep it that way)
(btw, you want them to say things like "you're such an a@@hole/jerk", as long as its in a playful tone)

Any girls reading this post, don't take it the wrong way, i'm trying to educate guys who are socially inept (as a lot of INTJs are) and don't understand these principles (which, i realize, might seem a little arrogant, but will give you confidence and success in a social setting)

[Uberfuhrer]

How are you an INTJ and an ENTp? That makes no sense. I know socionics are a little different, but how do you go from being introverted to extroverted? It's impossible you are born one way or the other, it's in the make-up of your brain.

Oh, shit, I didn't even realize this thread was this old. I'm sure you're not interested in the answer anymore, but I'm just compelled to answer. My socionics VI type is ENTp based on my external behavior and the way my eyes and face look. I was actually helped out by another person who practices socionics VI typing.

[azelismia]

The Fe types will consider these cons, but I don't:

Refusal to hear anyone's thoughts but my own.
I treat people like objects (I really don't see that much of a difference).
I have my own opinions on issues.And here are some of my own cons:

People are jealous of my nonconformist behavior, which is great in and of itself, but their jealousy leads them to try and destroy me.
I am confused for a slacker when, really, I just have my own goals.
I eat a lot when I get stressed, so it's not good for my physical appearance.
I have many weird anxieties and phobias.
I am powerless to control things in the way that I really, really want to.
Sometimes, life just doesn't end up as I had predicted it in my mind, and it really discourages me.



you know, about anxieties and phobias, I used to have them very badly. I still get flashes of a panic attack now adn again but it's nothing like it was when I was in my early 20's. I don't know if it's just years of living with it deadens you to it or what but as i've gotten older the phobias and anxieties have mellowed.

What I find helps most is to give up most media. News and Television.
I have also been banned from looking up medical sites as hypochondria is a huge issue with me.
I make a conscious effort to not obsess over negative things I can't control. I try to think of nice things instead. My dad taught me about thought control when i was little.

I could never get to sleep b/c I was always thinking too much be it positive or negative. he told me not to think of sheep b/c you can imagine them doing too many things and have a whole different scenario pop up where suddenly you're the king of the goats and you have to defend against the maurading sheep empire, but instead to concentrate on something like a repetitive soothing scene such as waves breaking or golden fields of wheat shuffling in the sun. (the latter is what always got my mind clear)

with other negative thoughts you just have to force yourself to not go there.

It's made a huge difference in my life. I was on paxil for a couple years (bad stuff) st johns wort for many years. ( Good stuff to take the edge off if you can't control it) I haven't been on anything for a year or so now and it seems to be under control. I trained myself while on the st johns wort to be more positive.

[Uberfuhrer]

you know, about anxieties and phobias, I used to have them very badly. I still get flashes of a panic attack now adn again but it's nothing like it was when I was in my early 20's. I don't know if it's just years of living with it deadens you to it or what but as i've gotten older the phobias and anxieties have mellowed.

What I find helps most is to give up most media. News and Television.
I have also been banned from looking up medical sites as hypochondria is a huge issue with me.
I make a conscious effort to not obsess over negative things I can't control. I try to think of nice things instead. My dad taught me about thought control when i was little.

I could never get to sleep b/c I was always thinking too much be it positive or negative. he told me not to think of sheep b/c you can imagine them doing too many things and have a whole different scenario pop up where suddenly you're the king of the goats and you have to defend against the maurading sheep empire, but instead to concentrate on something like a repetitive soothing scene such as waves breaking or golden fields of wheat shuffling in the sun. (the latter is what always got my mind clear)

with other negative thoughts you just have to force yourself to not go there.

It's made a huge difference in my life. I was on paxil for a couple years (bad stuff) st johns wort for many years. ( Good stuff to take the edge off if you can't control it) I haven't been on anything for a year or so now and it seems to be under control. I trained myself while on the st johns wort to be more positive.

Actually, I hardly ever watch TV, unless this means I should give up movies, as well.

Most of my anxieties stem from fear of being rejected if I make the first move in potential courting, and I imagine losing control of myself. Hearing the word "No" is pretty much the "N" word for me. I pretty much avoid interaction with other people now, and I'm pretty much a recluse and have anxiety every time I leave my home.

With that said, another shitty thing about being an INTJ is having unrealistic expectations.

[azelismia]

well as they say confront your fears. I had this problem when I was very young so I used to go out of my way to squash it. I was terrified of being ridiculed so I'd do absurd things in front of many people. I learned it's not all that bad. I don't really care what they think.

when I was 12, I had just moved to a new school dist. I was tremendously insecure and had come from the most unpopular period of my life. it was the one time in my life I'd ever been picked on in any sense of the word. it was very very bad for a number of reasons that I won't go into.

Anyhoot, I had worn out shoes and was exceedingly hyper. one day I went spinning out of a flooded family room into the kitchen in these shoes and hit the refrigerator at a high speed breaking my leg. so my first day of school was in a cast from sliding into a fridge. my mom told me to lie about it. so I did. I told them I had been skiing. they, being 12 year olds wanted to know all the specifics, what kind of ski's where was I skiing so on and so forth. but the problem was I'd never been skiing before. So after a seconds pause (literally I was surrounded by 15 kids all banging out questions w/ teacher in background. it was like a press conference) I had to say, sorry.... my mom told me to lie, really I slid into a fridge. I've never been skiing before.

this equaled instant popularity for me ( at least with the boys, the girls didn't like me all that much) Much to my delight the most handsome boy in class took a liking to me and we started playing chess during class (not sure how we got by with this, it was english class) I developed quite the crush on him. However, he was the most popular kid in our class and very good looking, amazingly bright blue eyes with dark hair and I very much viewed myself as the ugly duckling geek from hell so I thought there was no way he'd be interested in me. but at one point I got a note passed to me saying he'd like to go out with me. that FREAKED me out. f###d with my head in every way possible. I assumed it was fairly unpopular that he was spending so much time with me and it was a practical joke meant to put him in a bad spot if I reacted positively which of course would be the expected response, so I gave a negatory response instead to save his feelings. Of course, in reality the whole thing was on the level and I crushed him. I tried to right it half heartedly, but my parents were divorcing, I'd be moving 30 miles away which for a 12 year old is impossible distance and we were 12 so WTF anyway right? like there was any real future. So I just let go of it. That event always haunted me. I hope I didn't screw him up too badly.

Rosebud yah know?
After that, I made an earnest promise to myself to always be upfront about this sort of thing. it isn't worth the fear. Some people will like you and some people won't. It's hard but I recommend you put yourself out there. start out small with people who wouldn't matter to you anyway maybe, But start tackling that fear or it could really cripple you for the long term. It's very frightening to acquire meaningful relationships but very worth it I think.