Firearms - Sportsman Thread

[deconspire]

I'm a big range guy. I think shooting is a very INTJ-ish hobby; if you do everything correctly, the bullet goes exactly where you intend for it to go. This finality has always appealed to me--if you make a mistake, it's on you, and you can adjust to get the results you want. At any rate, I'm interested in what kind of firearms the shooters out there have.

Here are mine, as of right now:

Remington 700, .308, heavy barrel (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) - My reach-out-and-touch-something rifle.

FN-FAL, .308 (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) - this thing is heavy, around 13lbs with a full mag, but it spits fire at 200m. It wasn't named "the right arm of the free world" for nothing. It's my medium-range, need-lots-of-firepower gun.

Mossberg 500 (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) - I bought this eyesore from a friend and it's all tac'd-out (which I hate, it's a fucking shotgun, c'mon now), but since the FN is heavy and fairly long, this would be my first choice out of what I own if shtf and I had to clear a house.

Ruger Security 6 (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.), .357 - passed down to me. I generally just shoot .38 rounds out of it though.

S&W Lady Smith (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.), .38 - My nightstand/carry gun. You know this as the Chief's Special, it's the updated Model 36. I love it. Big fan of double-action only carry weapons.

And, of course, the best semi-auto handgun ever made, the .45 Colt 1911 (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.). Everything about it is perfect.

I have a couple .22's as well, nothing fancy.

The only thing I really would like to have is an AK--I keep putting off getting one. I don't have a light, close-quarters battle-rifle, and the AK would fit that use perfectly. A lot of people seem to hate them, but they are an absolute terror in close-quarters. Better than the AR variants in MOUT because the 7.62 will chew through walls, something the 5.56 could never do.

[JackCY]

The only thing I really would like to have is an AK--I keep putting off getting one. I don't have a light, close-quarters battle-rifle, and the AK would fit that use perfectly. A lot of people seem to hate them, but they are an absolute terror in close-quarters. Better than the AR variants in MOUT because the .308 will chew through walls, something the 5.56 could never do.
That's a really nice collection! Remington 700, FN FAL, Mossberg 500, S&W, 1911.
Some of the best picks and pure classic guns.

It's not .308 nor 7.62×51mm NATO:
AK47 is 7.62×39mm M43/M67 != 7.62×51mm NATO - hard to get no, rarity, collectible?
AK74 is 5.45×39mm - might be easier, tons of them made
AK10x is all the above + 5.56×45mm NATO - in production

But yes compared to 5.56x45; 7.62x39 has a bit more shoot through abilities. I would say more kick, less accuracy and shooting through somebody is not so deadly as the nasty wild 5.56x45, 5.45x39 etc. bleh ammunition, they can develop really nasty things to kill people.

What is MOUT?

[Grimace]

Armories are probably the biggest difference I ever am reminded about between Canadians and Americans. Not saying folks up here in Canada don't have guns, but, other than hunters, you just would not see this kinda heat in a Canadian's repertoire, and certainly even then it would only be long guns ftmp. That said, I find an old 30-30 of my grandfathers quite charming with its smoking-breach mystique.


also, "reach out and touch something" had me straight loling :D

[deconspire]

That's a really nice collection! Some of the best picks and pure classic guns.
Thanks! I'm very selective, they all have very particular uses/ranges.
It's not .308 nor 7.62×51mm NATO
Yeah, you're right...I have a tendency to inaccurately interchange .308 and 7.62x when I talk. Probably because everyone (in the US anyway) knows what a .308 is. I went back and edited though.
What is MOUT?
Military Operations in Urban Terrain. I think they just call it UO (Urban Operations) now. (this became the focal point of US infantry training in the early 2000's)
Armories are probably the biggest difference I ever am reminded about between Canadians and Americans. Not saying folks up here in Canada don't have guns, but, other than hunters, you just would not see this kinda heat in a Canadian's repertoire, and certainly even then it would only be long guns ftmp. That said, I find an old 30-30 of my grandfathers quite charming with its smoking-breach mystique.
also, "reach out and touch something" had me straight loling :D

The FN definitely bumps this collection from Sportsman's Arms to Small Arsenal. With a couple other people I'd be able to hold some ground for awhile just with this stuff. Would take a pretty dedicated force to push me off. Are you Canadians allowed to have something like that? Is it more "we don't have as much access as you Americans" or "we're not allowed to have them, period"? My brother has an old lever-action 30-30. Very nice rifle.

Reach out and touch someone is an old sniper motto...but I changed it to something so I didn't seem quite as sick. ;)

---------- Post added 02-15-2012 at 01:50 PM ----------

7.62×51mm NATO - hard to get no, rarity, collectible?

I can't shoot 7.62x51 out of my FN (it's chambered for .308 as it is a civilian sportster model), so I don't know how hard it is to find that ammo. Technically, they are the exact same dimensionally, but the .308 creates less internal pressure than the heavier-cased military-grade 7.62 ammo so you can't shoot the NATO stuff out of .308 firearms (although you can shoot .308 out of something chambered for 7.62x51). Sorry...I'm probably preaching to the choir here.

[Grimace]

I don't think you can have automatic weapons in Canada legally. Handguns, I figure probably, but I doubt carry laws are the same, and/or if you can just carry. Hunting rifles much more common; there are lots of hunters.

[greasemonkey]

Oh you lucky, lucky bunch of gunslingers. Here in the good 'ol UK, I could get arrested for the knife in my pocket. I would have to jump through hoops to get a shot gun, and a rifle would cost me a small fortune.

Best I can have is a .22 air rifle, had one since I was a kid. It'll give a bunny a fatal fright, but as far as defending myself with it is concerned, I would be better using it to hit my attacker around the head, rather than shooting him.

[Social Torture]

My toys & their purposes

Rock Island Armory 1911GI .45ACP, 5" barrel, no frills - For when some criminal bursts into my house @ 0230hrs & also for concealed carry

Mossberg 500 12ga, field model, 28" barrel - Hunting stuff

Marlin XT22 .22LR, 22" barrel, scoped - For when I need to have 24hr therapy session (24hrs of constant gunfire) that won't break the bank & also for squirrel genocide.
I've had people ask me, "Why do you hate squirrels so much?" I answer with, "I hate them so much because they stole my nuts."

Toys that I want - This one is simple... all of them. When I make my fortune, I want to stop @ the local gun shop. "What can I do for you today?" Then I place the suitcase on the table and respond, "I want it all. I'm cleaning you out. They're all going into my truck."

[deconspire]

Rock Island Armory 1911GI .45ACP, 5" barrel, no frills - For when some criminal bursts into my house @ 0230hrs & also for concealed carry
Nice! But good lord, how can you CC that? I couldn't carry all that weight around. Of course, I'm also potentially under-powered by doing so. Small chance that it matters, but still...
Marlin XT22 .22LR, 22" barrel, scoped - For when I need to have 24hr therapy session (24hrs of constant gunfire) that won't break the bank & also for squirrel genocide.
I used to have a little .22 semi-auto handgun that I used for the same reason. I used to ruin pumpkins with it.
I've had people ask me, "Why do you hate squirrels so much?" I answer with, "I hate them so much because they stole my nuts."
This joke never gets old. You can try to kill it but it won't die. It's the Michael Myers of bad jokes.
Toys that I want - This one is simple... all of them. When I make my fortune, I want to stop @ the local gun shop. "What can I do for you today?" Then I place the suitcase on the table and respond, "I want it all. I'm cleaning you out. They're all going into my truck."
...and then he freaks out and shoots you 'cause it totally sounds like you're jacking him. LOL.

But if he says, "look man, I can only sell you 3 at a time"...what are you making sure you get first?

[g20]

Well I'll try to be brief and not mention optics and work done, but I'm sure I'll forget a few.

In no particular order:

S&w bodyguard .38, g17, g19, g20, g22, sig arms pro2340 .40/.357, sig sauer p226 SAS .40/.357, hk p2000sk 9mm, SA xd .40, SA xdm 9mm, kahr cw9, para p12 .45, ruger mark ii 22/45.

I built my AR so its a mix of parts, Howa 1500 22-250, Remington 700 7mm mag and. 308, Winchester m100 .308 and model 94 30-30, ruger 10-22, benelli (hk stamped) m1 12ga, Beretta 302a 12ga, mosberg 500 12 ga.

There used to be a photo thread to the same effect as this.

[deconspire]

Well I'll try to be brief and not mention optics and work done, but I'm sure I'll forget a few.

In no particular order:

S&w bodyguard .38, g17, g19, g20, g22, sig arms pro2340 .40/.357, sig sauer p226 SAS .40/.357, hk p2000sk 9mm, SA xd .40, SA xdm 9mm, kahr cw9, para p12 .45, ruger mark ii 22/45.

I built my AR so its a mix of parts, Howa 1500 22-250, Remington 700 7mm mag and. 308, Winchester m100 .308 and model 94 30-30, ruger 10-22, benelli (hk stamped) m1 12ga, Beretta 302a 12ga, mosberg 500 12 ga.

:faint:

Howa 1500 22-250 - murder on coyotes at 300m even. I almost bought one in .308 instead of the 700, but the 700 just has more of everything in the marketplace. But they are interchangeable in performance to me. I'm always curious why people prefer one over the other. The 700 in 7mm is pretty nasty. I don't ever get to shoot at 1000m any more but that's what I'd have if I could. Well...I'd probably get a .300win, but whatever, I hate that debate. They both kick-ass.

sig arms pro2340 - have always wanted to shoot these.

Winchester m100 - Never touched one, but they always seem to be everyone's 2nd favorite rifle.

The XD in .40 - Almost bought one. It's easily my favorite polymer, and I love that it comes with different grips. Plus...it's Springfield.

kahr cw9 - hate it. 8 rounds? Really? In a 9? But the worst is having to let the trigger all the way out after each shot. HORRIBLE.

Would certainly be interested in any further comments you had on that arsenal.

[g20]

:faint:

Howa 1500 22-250 - murder on coyotes at 300m even. I almost bought one in .308 instead of the 700, but the 700 just has more of everything in the marketplace. But they are interchangeable in performance to me. I'm always curious why people prefer one over the other. The 700 in 7mm is pretty nasty. I don't ever get to shoot at 1000m any more but that's what I'd have if I could. Well...I'd probably get a .300win, but whatever, I hate that debate. They both kick-ass.

in terms of performance there isn't much difference between the 700, Savage and Howa. I opted for the Howa 1500/vanguard because it came with the stock I like (hogue) and another scope that gets tossed in a drawer and traded. IMHO savage accutrigger is better than the rest but howa comes with the stock and the trigger is easy to dial in.


sig arms pro2340 - have always wanted to shoot these.

just a work horse, good luck finding one. you'll have to settle for the german made sig sauer 2022 instead of the swiss 2340/2009. works like the old german sigs but the trigger is noticeably crisper on the classic aluminum frame p series. had mine since '99, close to 10k rounds of .40 down the tube and 1k of .357 without a hiccup but original p series it is not.



Winchester m100 - Never touched one, but they always seem to be everyone's 2nd favorite rifle.

your thinking model 70 (great rifle), the m100 was a sloppy gas operated semi-auto that is semi collectable that most people have never heard of let alone seen.



The XD in .40 - Almost bought one. It's easily my favorite polymer, and I love that it comes with different grips. Plus...it's Springfield


the xdm has different grips not the xd, but so does the gen4 glocks and m&p. great gun and one of the best deals on the market but its actually HS produckt (IM metal) not springfield, much like most of the springfield 1911s are made in brazil by imbrel. I can actually get a better trigger out of a glock....to bad the glock has that grip angle. still kicking myself for not buying the HS2000 when they were selling for $199 NIB.


kahr cw9 - hate it. 8 rounds? Really? In a 9? But the worst is having to let the trigger all the way out after each shot. HORRIBLE.

you have obviously never CCW'd. they are a purpose built weapon, easily the most comfortable semi-auto to carry, your thumb is wider than any of the Kahrs. the trigger is squirt gun long but buttery smooth with no stacking and sufficiently long to negate the need for a manual safety. not the most fun at the range, they work but they have a lot of bark and bite at both ends of the muzzle but if you need to carry something that you can depend on to function and not be seen even while wearing light clothing and carry all day without getting uncomfortable there isn't many that come close to kahr products (I do have differing opinions on different calibers).

[Social Torture]

Nice! But good lord, how can you CC that? I couldn't carry all that weight around. Of course, I'm also potentially under-powered by doing so. Small chance that it matters, but still...

I used to have a little .22 semi-auto handgun that I used for the same reason. I used to ruin pumpkins with it.

This joke never gets old. You can try to kill it but it won't die. It's the Michael Myers of bad jokes.

...and then he freaks out and shoots you 'cause it totally sounds like you're jacking him. LOL.

But if he says, "look man, I can only sell you 3 at a time"...what are you making sure you get first?

How do I Pack that Single Stack .45ACP... If I told you then it wouldn't be concealed anymore, now would it? Just kidding! Belt slide @ about 0430hrs & an untucked shirt. If I dig out my trench coat I can carry the Mossberg as well. I got strong by wrestling those Northern Wisconsin black bears.

What do mean you can only sell me 3 @ a time? NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! wHICH 3 do I want?... Decisions, decisions... such critical choices. #1 - Remington M700 chambered in .308 Winchester. #2 SKS stock setup, nondetatchable 10 round mag. #3 I'm not brand particular on this 1, a single shot 410/.45 Long Colt pistol for a backup/boot gun & don't forget about non-lethal ammunition AKA 410 rock salt loads.

[deconspire]

you're thinking model 70 (great rifle)
Yes Yes, you're correct, my mistake. The "2nd favorite gun" line proved itself.
...but its actually HS produckt (IM metal) not springfield, much like most of the springfield 1911s are made in brazil by imbrel. I can actually get a better trigger out of a glock....to bad the glock has that grip angle.
I didn't know that. At any rate it doesn't matter to me, Americana is not the reason; I just trust everything they produce. Love the Glock but yeah...can't like the grip angle. Just doesn't point for me, not without lots of range time--but then why bother?

still kicking myself for not buying the HS2000 when they were selling for $199 NIB.
Are you fucking kidding me? Get out...I'm kicking you too.

you have obviously never CCW'd...
Nor would I. You sound like LE or Homeland but not Military (maybe I'm wrong, just my impression). It's a difference in training, I think, or maybe, and more importantly, a difference in comfort level. At any rate I would never CC anything that spit shells.

[g20]

I didn't know that. At any rate it doesn't matter to me, Americana is not the reason; I just trust everything they produce. Love the Glock but yeah...can't like the grip angle. Just doesn't point for me, not without lots of range time--but then why bother?

I should be clear, HS2000 and its U.S. market twin (XD) are made in Croatia. the old eastern block countries usually get right....especially when HS produkt copied Sig Sauers p-series fire control system, sear just catches a striker on the top instead of a hammer on the bottom.

with glock I only have a problem with the small frames (9mm, .40/.357...gap:yuck:), the large frame 10mm and .45acp point normal for me. it took me about 1000rnds to adapt and I pretty much have to stick with the glocks or I start pointing high again. If anybody besides glock made a decent 10mm I'd drop them. love that round.


Are you fucking kidding me? Get out...I'm kicking you too.

Tell me about it, I'd put down the hs2000 and walk out with a sig that cost 3x as much. last one I considered (and spent $700+ on a p220 instead) was less than a year before springfield released the XD.....at 2x the cost of the hs2000....damn.



Nor would I. You sound like LE or Homeland but not Military (maybe I'm wrong, just my impression). It's a difference in training, I think, or maybe, and more importantly, a difference in comfort level. At any rate I would never CC anything that spit shells.

nope, just been shooting since I could walk and tinkering with guns not to long after that, the legacy of a gunsmithing grandfather. have a love hate relationship with the firearms industry.

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think I killed it.

[Osmobot]

All I have is an old makarov. I'll get a few more someday if I move to a more gun friendly state. There's only one range in Rhode Island that isn't part of a private club, and they aren't very friendly to non hunters.

[amack]

Oh you lucky, lucky bunch of gunslingers. Here in the good 'ol UK, I could get arrested for the knife in my pocket. I would have to jump through hoops to get a shot gun, and a rifle would cost me a small fortune.

Best I can have is a .22 air rifle, had one since I was a kid.

Poor greasemonkey! I feel for you. I have lived in Germany and all they can use are air pistols and air rifles. Sad. .22s are all the "shooting clubs" can use, and you have to be a member of a shooting club to even shoot or own a .22 in Germany.

You need to move to Texas! We have about 15 guns in this house. I like to shoot but I don't know all the terminology and intricacies about our guns on the level that has been discussed above. I'm a female. Life member of the NRA and a concealed handgun license holder.

I carry 2 guns in my truck: a .375 [edited to correct: .357 revolver...I'm sober now. :)] Smith & Wesson Skandium conceal/carry type gun and a .40mm Beretta semi auto. I also have a 20 gauge over/under and a 12 gauge semi auto that I use for skeet shooting. I bought my husband a .45 Smith & Wesson 1911 pistol for his birthday. Really awesome pistol.

I'm not good with rifles but I do have a Henry Repeater .22 rifle that I tinker around with. I'm a pistol and shotgun gal. I also have this Remington home defense 12 gauge that holds 7 rounds.

---------- Post added 02-17-2012 at 07:08 PM ----------

I must clarify that in Germany, the "Shutzvereine" / shooting clubs can use REAL .22s with real bullets. And if you register as a hunter (which I understand to be really hard to do), you can go out on sanctioned hunts with bigger rifles or shotguns but they regulate the hell out of you. You can't use the hunting weapons for personal defense. Even if you're a licensed hunter, you cannot even shoot a dog that is attaking your livestock or your pets ON YOUR OWN PROPERTY. You can't shoot vermin on your own property, etc. Sad, indeed.

[Fox]

Growing up the Father of kids next door was either a former green beret, ranger or something in Vietnam. Guy was a little Red Dawn can happen in real life paranoid. I swear he had a hundred assault rifles and stuff.

[amack]

Growing up the Father of kids next door was either a former green beret, ranger or something in Vietnam. Guy was a little Red Dawn can happen in real life paranoid. I swear he had a hundred assault rifles and stuff.

Wow, poor guy. If he was a real Green Beret or Ranger, it may have taken him a while to recover from what he went through in Vietnam. He probably knew people who "vacationed" in the Hanoi Hilton and probably saw horrible stuff. I salute him for his service to our country!

My father was a single-seat light attack jet pilot in the US Navy during Vietnam. He flew 200 plus combat missions off an aircraft carrier over Laos / North Vietnam. He has never packed that much heat in the house [and has never owned an assault rifle to my knowledge], but I new he'd "hold it down" if anybody ever tried to hurt us growing up!

---------- Post added 02-18-2012 at 10:56 AM ----------

Nice! But good lord, how can you CC that? I couldn't carry all that weight around. Of course, I'm also potentially under-powered by doing so. Small chance that it matters, but still...

deaconspire...you are my hero in your intricate knowledge of all things firearms!!

I will say that the .45 1911 that I bought my husband 4 years ago for his birthday is one of the most "usable" guns that we own. It's so easy / fun to shoot due to its weight. Never jams, etc. I wear a size 4 1/2 ring (tiny hands). I'm 5'5'' and 115 lbs. This gun is so reliable. It will ALWAYS fire and you don't have to use a "death grip" on it to keep it steady.

My husband is 6'5'', 215 lbs. I got him a personalized leather holster for that bad boy. He uses it for CC sometimes. But he's a big dude. My dad told him not to "walk too close to the water" while carrying that thing. :) The barrel might not be a 5 inch though...maybe a 4.5 inch or around that. It has dual safeties because he's left handed. Cool gun!!!

[deconspire]

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think I killed it.

*chuckles* I'd say so. I didn't know that thread existed.

deaconspire...you are my hero in your intricate knowledge of all things firearms!!
I'm former military. ;) But I think G20 has me beat. That dude is an encyclopedia I'm guessing.
I will say that the .45 1911 that I bought my husband 4 years ago for his birthday is one of the most "usable" guns that we own. It's so easy / fun to shoot due to its weight. Never jams, etc. I wear a size 4 1/2 ring (tiny hands). I'm 5'5'' and 115 lbs. This gun is so reliable. It will ALWAYS fire and you don't have to use a "death grip" on it to keep it steady.

Exactly. It points so naturally. It's like it aims itself. I've put all kinds of ammo through mine and it eats everything. So rare.

My husband is 6'5'', 215 lbs. I got him a personalized leather holster for that bad boy. He uses it for CC sometimes. But he's a big dude. My dad told him not to "walk too close to the water" while carrying that thing. :) The barrel might not be a 5 inch though...maybe a 4.5 inch or around that. It has dual safeties because he's left handed. Cool gun!!!
I have a small frame--I'm 5'9" and 160, so a handgun that big is very hard for me to conceal in light clothes. I like revolvers better for CC because they point faster for me--it's how the weight is distributed I guess. I also like not having an external safety, and a high fault tolerance (i.e., if a round does not fire, you just pull the trigger again. In a semi you'd have to clear the slide).

[amack]

I'm former military. ;) But I think G20 has me beat. That dude is an encyclopedia I'm guessing.

I also like not having an external safety, and a high fault tolerance (i.e., if a round does not fire, you just pull the trigger again. In a semi you'd have to clear the slide).

deaconpire and G20, y'all are awesome! I'm learning so much from these posts. By the way, my husband just walked in here and told me to tell y'all he also has a Remington 700 7mm rilfe (like G20's). I don't know much about rifles, but he says he likes it.

deaconspire, what branch were you in / what was your job? My dad was a Navy pilot, my sister is a linguist in the Navy at present, and my husband served 6 years in the US Air Force.

FYI--someone started a thread in "Dating & Relationships" about what INTJ women find "sexy" in a man. Included in my list of several things were the following: 1) owns a gun and knows how to use one; and 2) military service (past or present). :)

---------- Post added 02-18-2012 at 06:41 PM ----------

Oh, I forgot to ask you deaconspire, can you order a ready-made 1911 without an external safety? When I was shopping for guns, all the 1911s I saw had safeties on the left or dual safeties for lefties.

I like revolvers for CC too. I have this snub nosed .357 that only weighs 12 oz unloaded. It has an internal hammer and no safety.

[rotfuchs]

very nice guns! long range shooting is a nice hobby, do you also reload?
its also good knowledge for hunting because you get to know your limits better
and wont overestimate your skills.
my setup for hunting:
merkel 12/70 bdf
rem 700 in .300 win/s&b pmII 5-25
merkel sr1 SLR in .300 win
i also have a cz 75 in 9mm/.22 but rarely need it for the hunt

[amack]

.
my setup for hunting:
merkel 12/70 bdf
rem 700 in .300 win/s&b pmII 5-25
merkel sr1 SLR in .300 win
i also have a cz 75 in 9mm/.22 but rarely need it for the hunt

rotfuchs, I assume you're German due your name! I used to live in Germany. Did you see my comments above about the restrictions on gun ownership in Germany? Was I accurate (or somewhat accurate)? I'm going on what people told me when I was in Hannover last summer.

I also heard an old man in Oldenburg shot and killed an intruder last year with his hunting rifle. He did have to stand trial, but I was told he was acquitted. Thank goodness!

I'm so happy to see a German gun owner on here. They seem to be kind of rare (based upon my experience living there). :)

---------- Post added 02-18-2012 at 08:42 PM ----------

p.s. rotfuchs, I went into a gun shop in Augsburg last September just to "look around." The lady running the store was nice, but she was VERY uncomfortable with my being there. I am not licensed as a hunter in Germany, of course. I was looking at all the pistols on the wall, and they were all "air pistols." They even had a Berretta P4X Storm 40mm just like mine, but it was re-tooled to be an air rifle.

Anyway, the lady kept telling me I couldn't buy anything, and I told her I understood...I was just looking because I'm from Texas and I like guns and I was just interested. I guarantee you that if you came to Texas and walked into a gun store as a German or whatever nationality, they would LOVE to sell you a gun!! :)

[g20]

Oh, I forgot to ask you deaconspire, can you order a ready-made 1911 without an external safety? When I was shopping for guns, all the 1911s I saw had safeties on the left or dual safeties for lefties.

I like revolvers for CC too. I have this snub nosed .357 that only weighs 12 oz unloaded. It has an internal hammer and no safety.

only thing that is readily available would be Para's LDA (light double action) and its available on pretty much all 3 classic 1911 sizes and even some of paras designs that are smaller than the officers model. cylinder and slide used to make a hammer down carry kit but they have been off the market for some time, the LDA is very similiar in function but neither is really double action. Both suffer from being significant departures from John Brownings original design.....it took a lot of years for the 1911 crowd to warm up to the series 80, doubt they'll ever give in to the LDA.

the following is IMHO, please to not get your panties in a bunch if my opinion is not inline with yours:

not to start a fight but if you want to go without a manual safety I'd look to another design. granted the guns I carry get more abuse than most but there are more reliable designs out there. the 1911 is a great design, still the best trigger (for accuracy) in a handgun but it's still technology from the turn of the century....and not the last turn of the century, J.B. himself said his best design was the high power and not the 1911. the self cleaning locking lugs that are common now (thanks to sig sauer) alone are worth it.

if .45acp is what your looking for in a single stack take a look at the sig p220, I'd recommend looking for a used german model, while I no longer own one I will say that I've sent more lead down range with a p220 than any other single handgun, I bought a retired service p220 and then put somewhere in the neighborhood of 45k rounds down range before it had a minor parts failure, $80 later Sig replaced every spring and roll pin in the gun, replaced the night sights and did 2 updates.....the sights alone were worth $100, and all that went wrong was a $8 spring, can't complain about their service. if you don't mind a double stack FN's .45 version of the FNP is one of the narrowest double stacks I've come across and FNH doesn't make bad products period. then there is the XD (points like a 1911) and the trigger can be improved to close to 1911ish. I like large frame glocks, I'd go G36 (single stack) if CC is what you have in mind, or g21/g21sf for full size.

[rotfuchs]

@ amack: yes you need to either be hunter or in a sport shooting club.
The weapon laws are very strict and if you violate them (for example get caught driving after drinking) you lose your license.
And yes, you may not shoot on your own property.
There were many nonsense discussions in the media for example about only allowing .22 weapons for the sport clubs but at the moment they still can use the bigger calibers.

How did you like Hannover? I go shopping there from time to time ;)

[Subtle]

At any rate, I'm interested in what kind of firearms the shooters out there have.

I own five guns, one semi-automatic shotgun, two rifles, and two pistols. The long guns are for hunting, the pistols are for target shooting. Actually, I'm a hunter first and foremost. Target shooting comes second.

I'm a Glock fan and own a Glock 22. For other Glock aficionados, I recommend watching hickok45 (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) on YouTube. He's not only a good shooter, he's also a very pleasant human being.

If time permits, I might get back to you about the identity of my other guns.

Nice thread!

[deconspire]

For other Glock aficionados, I recommend watching hickok45 (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) on YouTube.

That vid just made me lol. Ping-ping-ping-ping-ping-ping...he's quite good.

[amack]

@g20: WOW. You really blow me away with your gun expertise! Thank you! Anyway, the reason I was asking about external safeties...I may have misunderstood deaconspire when he said he preferred something without an external safety. I thought he was referring to 1911 semi autos, but looking back maybe he was just saying this is a good general feature of a revolver.

That Sig p220 looks awesome! I looked it up. My dad has an old German police gun that is really sweet, but I forgot what kind he has. It's a Walther something, maybe. He loves that pistol!

So, how / where were you able to buy a used German model and maintain the warranty for repairs? That's pretty awesome.

---------- Post added 02-19-2012 at 07:00 PM ----------

There were many nonsense discussions in the media for example about only allowing .22 weapons for the sport clubs but at the moment they still can use the bigger calibers.

How did you like Hannover? I go shopping there from time to time ;)

@rotfuchs, I'm so glad to hear that guns larger than .22s can still be used at shooting clubs! My former host father, who is a lawyer in Hannover and a "Schuetzenkoenig" many times over in his shooting club, is the one who told me they can only use .22s...or maybe he says that's all his club uses (I cannot remember). His shooting club is in Scharnhorst (Landkreis Celle).

I loved Hannover! I miss it so much. I did my final year of high school in Hannover, and then I studied law for a semester in Osnabrueck, not far from Hannover. This was many years ago, but I have gone back to visit several times.

One of the best part of living there and learning German there was the accent. They have such a clean accent in that area. I would recognize it anywhere! When I watched the movie, the "Inglourious Basterds," several years ago, I loved listening to Diane Kruger speak German because her accent made me feel "at home." :)

So what about pistol ownership in Germany? I thought I saw a pistol among your list of weapons above. Who can own a real pistol over there (as opposed to an "air pistol")? And what can you use the pistols for?

[Social Torture]

hickock45 is amazing. Looking at all those toys & how well he can shoot... [as tears roll down Social Torture's face] It... it's... it's beautiful.

[from a guy that likes shooting guns more than engaging in sex]
Do you see these guns? I love those guns more than I love my own kids. No, I don't have any kids, but that's beside the point. Dang, those sure are some beautiful guns though.

[Equinox]

I don't currently own any guns because I still live at home and my family is convinced that the second I so much as touch one, it'll blow up and kill me. (I've been to a firing range before and I did fine, for the record.) The ones I will most likely get when I'm out of the house and have a disposable income are the following:

FN P90 (I guess it would have to be the PS, the civilian variant sold with a smaller magazine and single-fire only, but is there a way to convert it to auto?) + FN Five-seveN
Franchi SPAS-12, because it looks awesome (though I don't really like shotguns)
Mauser C96 "Broomhandle"/"Red 9" because it's awesome (has a detachable wooden stock that doubles as a repository for ammunition!)
Ruger Redhawk or some other SAA-clone, I have a nonfiring SAA replica at home

...And some bolt-action rifle, I guess I would start with a 10/22 until I get decent at basic shooting practices and will be able to tolerate recoil. I shot a Mosin-Nagant one time and it really hurt my shoulder, whereas with the 10/22 (it was a friend's customized rifle with a suppressor and scope) I could barely even tell I'd fired it.

[deconspire]

FN P90 (I guess it would have to be the PS, the civilian variant sold with a smaller magazine and single-fire only, but is there a way to convert it to auto?).
You can buy them in semi-auto ($1300) now. And any semi-auto can be converted to full-auto. Illegal of course, but not hard. I don't mess with firearm regulations, but I know guys that have done this mod.
Franchi SPAS-12, because it looks awesome (though I don't really like shotguns)
lol...should nickname that one, "hollywood". If LE and military uses them, must be pretty good.
...And some bolt-action rifle, I guess I would start with a 10/22 until I get decent at basic shooting practices and will be able to tolerate recoil. I shot a Mosin-Nagant one time and it really hurt my shoulder, whereas with the 10/22 (it was a friend's customized rifle with a suppressor and scope) I could barely even tell I'd fired it.
The 10/22 is a wonderful rifle. But it's semi-auto, not bolt. Anything that fires semi-auto is going to create much less felt-recoil than a bolt action. If you're looking for a bolt-action that's not going to destroy your shoulder (which you get used to), I'd suggest the .223 caliber. The Remington 700 is a good choice. A nice step up from the 10/22 semi would be the Ruger mini .30. Everyone bitches about its accuracy but it's absolutely acceptable for me as a "ranch gun" at 250m.

[Equinox]

You can buy them in semi-auto ($1300) now. And any semi-auto can be converted to full-auto. Illegal of course, but not hard. I don't mess with firearm regulations, but I know guys that have done this mod.

Yeah, the PS is semi-auto. The regular P90 is reserved for police and military use only, but I thought I'd heard about people making after-market modifications legally. I think it might have just been related to cutting off the lengthened barrel on the PS90 to make it more like the P90.

lol...should nickname that one, "hollywood". If LE and military uses them, must be pretty good.

Yeah, I watched Jurassic Park for the first time a few weeks ago with some friends and in the very first scene, I shouted "hey, it's the SPAS-12!!!" Also known in gaming as "the F.E.A.R. shotgun." I don't like shotguns that much because they kick back so much (I shot a bullpup variation of the Mossberg 500 at the range), but I really like the design of the SPAS-12. The foldable stock that looks like a rail on the top side of the barrel when it's retracted looks awesome, and I love weapons that are both stylish and effective.

The 10/22 is a wonderful rifle. But it's semi-auto, not bolt. Anything that fires semi-auto is going to create much less felt-recoil than a bolt action. If you're looking for a bolt-action that's not going to destroy your shoulder (which you get used to), I'd suggest the .223 caliber. The Remington 700 is a good choice. A nice step up from the 10/22 semi would be the Ruger mini .30. Everyone bitches about its accuracy but it's absolutely acceptable for me as a "ranch gun" at 250m.

I did shoot a 10/22, but you're right about it being semi-auto only. The non-Mosin-Nagant bolt-action I was thinking about was a Lee-Enfield surplus rifle used in India at some point in the last 100 years.

I was told about a CZ-something bolt-action rifle that's supposed to be pretty recoil-free, would anyone happen to know what it is?

Also, does anyone have experience with the Taurus Judge revolver? It looks cool and it's supposed to be able to fire several different calibers in addition to small shotgun shells, but is it practical?

---------- Post added 02-20-2012 at 01:24 PM ----------

Oh, and at some point I really want to own a Schofield Model 3 revolver because it looks really awesome.

[deconspire]

I was told about a CZ-something bolt-action rifle that's supposed to be pretty recoil-free, would anyone happen to know what it is?

Also, does anyone have experience with the Taurus Judge revolver? It looks cool and it's supposed to be able to fire several different calibers in addition to small shotgun shells, but is it practical?.

Don't know about the CZ you're talking about, all I know is they [the CZ] are a bit of a step up from entry level sniper weapons. g20 might be the guy to ask here...

Most of the time you cut down felt-recoil by increasing stock weight. They also make recoil buffers for this purpose. Muzzle brakes are a poor-choice because they increase sound pressure and muzzle blast. I'd assume the CZ you're referring to might just have all this stuff already. Or, it might be something totally new, like I said, not sure.

I've fired the Judge. Shoots .410 shot and .45. It kicks like crazy shooting the .410 (.410 generally is approx equivalent in power to a .357), but I mean damn...probably not getting back up after taking a couple hits from that. You can also use rock-salt in it, which is a fantastic non-lethal defense method. I'd buy one, if that means anything.

[Equinox]

Don't know about the CZ you're talking about, all I know is they [the CZ] are a bit of a step up from entry level sniper weapons. g20 might be the guy to ask here...

Most of the time you cut down felt-recoil by increasing stock weight. They also make recoil buffers for this purpose. Muzzle brakes are a poor-choice because they increase sound pressure and muzzle blast. I'd assume the CZ you're referring to might just have all this stuff already. Or, it might be something totally new, like I said, not sure.

I've fired the Judge. Shoots .410 shot and .45. It kicks like crazy shooting the .410 (.410 generally is approx equivalent in power to a .357), but I mean damn...probably not getting back up after taking a couple hits from that. You can also use rock-salt in it, which is a fantastic non-lethal defense method. I'd buy one, if that means anything.

Is rock salt enough to kill vermin and small game? (Rabbit-size and below)

[deconspire]

Is rock salt enough to kill vermin and small game? (Rabbit-size and below)

No. It doesn't do much damage to humans either. It hurts like shit and scares you, but it's not going to push off a dedicated assailant. I would probably have the first couple shells rock salt, and then the next 3 normal shot. Just so you can kill if the warnings don't suffice. Kind of nice to have a gun you can do that with...

[g20]

@g20:So, how / where were you able to buy a used German model and maintain the warranty for repairs? That's pretty awesome.

You find a used one with a pinned in breach face = german manufacture. Billet slide with integrated breach face = U.S. made. while the U.S. Sigs aren't necessarily bad, they just don't have QC control. Sig has always pretty much gone with an unstated warranty, as in they don't have one they just generally repair for free for original owners. They run refurb specials, send your used Sig in and they update and replace everything for a small price.....It's pretty much a loss leader for them.

Been involved with several shops, built, customized and repaired hundreds hence the knowledge base.



FN P90 (I guess it would have to be the PS, the civilian variant sold with a smaller magazine and single-fire only, but is there a way to convert it to auto?) + FN Five-seveN
Franchi SPAS-12, because it looks awesome (though I don't really like shotguns)


the PS also has a longer barrel to meet the 16" barrel or 26" overall rule (going shorter re. yes they can be converted, a trigger group and a barrel swap is all that's required to go back to original specs. Of course there is that pesky firearms act of 1986 making you a felon with a 10yr sentence and $500,000 fine. there are 2 legal ways and one that may or may not be legal. first is become a class 3 FFL with documented LE customers requesting a sample for testing. second is be issued one while working for an LE agency. The third really depends on the local BATF agent, it is technically legal (with proper paperwork and tax stamp) to convert a semi-auto to a full auto (at which point a registered full auto trumps SBR and only requires one tax stamp for the shorter barrel) but the draw back is that you can never sell the gun and even if you convert it back it will still be considered a full auto so your stuck with it, only thing you can do is destroy it and ship the piece with the serial number back to the ATF.....not to mention paying $0.50-$1.00 per round in a firearm that fires somewhere around 1200rnds per minute.

and out of the 5-7 your only pushing 22mag ballistics with the short barrel.

I shot a Mosin-Nagant one time and it really hurt my shoulder

it hurt because you didn't hold it tight to your shoulder, chances are I'm smaller than you and have no problem with 300 win mag, and 7mm rem mag, both have noticeably more recoil than 7.62R.

Yeah, the PS is semi-auto. The regular P90 is reserved for police and military use only, but I thought I'd heard about people making after-market modifications legally. I think it might have just been related to cutting off the lengthened barrel on the PS90 to make it more like the P90.



Yeah, I watched Jurassic Park for the first time a few weeks ago with some friends and in the very first scene, I shouted "hey, it's the SPAS-12!!!" Also known in gaming as "the F.E.A.R. shotgun." I don't like shotguns that much because they kick back so much (I shot a bullpup variation of the Mossberg 500 at the range), but I really like the design of the SPAS-12. The foldable stock that looks like a rail on the top side of the barrel when it's retracted looks awesome, and I love weapons that are both stylish and effective.


I was told about a CZ-something bolt-action rifle that's supposed to be pretty recoil-free, would anyone happen to know what it is?

Also, does anyone have experience with the Taurus Judge revolver? It looks cool and it's supposed to be able to fire several different calibers in addition to small shotgun shells, but is it practical?


No. It doesn't do much damage to humans either. It hurts like shit and scares you, but it's not going to push off a dedicated assailant. I would probably have the first couple shells rock salt, and then the next 3 normal shot. Just so you can kill if the warnings don't suffice. Kind of nice to have a gun you can do that with...

---------- Post added 02-20-2012 at 03:15 PM ----------

@g20:So, how / where were you able to buy a used German model and maintain the warranty for repairs? That's pretty awesome.

You find a used one with a pinned in breach face = german manufacture. Billet slide with integrated breach face = U.S. made. while the U.S. Sigs aren't necessarily bad, they just don't have QC control. Sig has always pretty much gone with an unstated warranty, as in they don't have one they just generally repair for free for original owners. They run refurb specials, send your used Sig in and they update and replace everything for a small price.....It's pretty much a loss leader for them.

Been involved with several shops, built, customized and repaired hundreds hence the knowledge base.


[QUOTE=Equinox;2341263
FN P90 (I guess it would have to be the PS, the civilian variant sold with a smaller magazine and single-fire only, but is there a way to convert it to auto?) + FN Five-seveN
Franchi SPAS-12, because it looks awesome (though I don't really like shotguns)
[/QUOTE]

the PS also has a longer barrel to meet the 16" barrel or 26" overall rule (going shorter requires a $200 tax stamp). yes they can be converted, a trigger group and a barrel swap is all that's required to go back to original specs. Of course there is that pesky firearms act of 1986 making you a felon with a 10yr sentence and $500,000 fine. there are 2 legal ways and one that may be legal but is rarely approved. first is become a class 3 FFL with documented LE customers requesting a sample for testing. second is be issued one while working for an LE agency. The third really depends on the local BATF agent, it is technically legal (with proper paperwork and tax stamp) to convert a semi-auto to a full auto (at which point a registered full auto trumps SBR and only requires one tax stamp for the shorter barrel) but the draw back is that you can never sell the gun and even if you convert it back it will still be considered a full auto so your stuck with it, only thing you can do is destroy it and ship the piece with the serial number back to the ATF.....not to mention paying $0.50-$1.00 per round in a firearm that fires somewhere around 1200rnds per minute.

and out of the 5-7 your only pushing 22mag ballistics with the short barrel.

I shot a Mosin-Nagant one time and it really hurt my shoulder

it hurt because you didn't hold it tight to your shoulder, chances are I'm smaller than you and have no problem with 300 win mag, and 7mm rem mag, both have noticeably more recoil than 7.62R.


Yeah, I watched Jurassic Park for the first time a few weeks ago with some friends and in the very first scene, I shouted "hey, it's the SPAS-12!!!" Also known in gaming as "the F.E.A.R. shotgun." I don't like shotguns that much because they kick back so much (I shot a bullpup variation of the Mossberg 500 at the range), but I really like the design of the SPAS-12. The foldable stock that looks like a rail on the top side of the barrel when it's retracted looks awesome, and I love weapons that are both stylish and effective.

recoil is the same on shotguns as rifles. tight to your shoulder helps a lot, stance helps. semi-auto actions tend to absorb recoil as well. the spas-12 is heavy, the controls are not intuitive. benelli m-3 (if you can find one) does the same thing but no folding stock and runs much cleaner than the gas driven spas. the benelli m-4 doesn't have the pump option but doesn't really need it. been hunting with an m-1 for years, great shotguns.


I was told about a CZ-something bolt-action rifle that's supposed to be pretty recoil-free, would anyone happen to know what it is?


has to do with the caliber it fires, anything in .22lr, .17 (hmr,hmr2,fireball), .223/5.56, 22-250.....basically any varmint round is going to have very little recoil. the greater the bullet weight and/or greater powder charge will make more recoil. there are things that can be done to the gun such as stock pads, weight, muzzle breaks that can reduce recoil also.

No. It doesn't do much damage to humans either. It hurts like shit and scares you, but it's not going to push off a dedicated assailant. I would probably have the first couple shells rock salt, and then the next 3 normal shot. Just so you can kill if the warnings don't suffice. Kind of nice to have a gun you can do that with...

And it's hell on a barrel, salt = rust and pitting if it stays there very long. Also a good way to get sued and arrested for assault. Shooting (to kill) to stop an attack is legal in most places, intentionally shooting to injure or maim is not legal anywhere. warning shots are foolish, you have an uncontrolled round flying off and your liable for collateral damage and it's illegal to fire within city limits with out cause, warnings don't equal just cause......best to say you missed.

[deconspire]

I may have misunderstood deaconspire...I thought he was referring to 1911 semi autos, but looking back maybe he was just saying this is a good general feature of a revolver.

That is correct. I just like to be able to draw and fire without worrying about a safety. But that's just a personal preference. I also have to deal with a longer trigger pull which affects accuracy, something that is inherent with a double-action revolver. But I'm ok with the trade off.

[Equinox]

and out of the 5-7 your only pushing 22mag ballistics with the short barrel.

Yes, but it's super-light and has a huge magazine for its size. Plus it also uses the 5.7X28mm NATO rounds.

it hurt because you didn't hold it tight to your shoulder, chances are I'm smaller than you and have no problem with 300 win mag, and 7mm rem mag, both have noticeably more recoil than 7.62R.

First, it was the first time I'd ever shot a gun. In fact, that day was the only time I've ever shot a gun. Second, I'm only 5'7" so I'm probably shorter than you :O

the spas-12 is heavy, the controls are not intuitive.

But...it's so cool D:

--------------------------------------

I'm surprised nobody's commented on the Mauser C96...

[deconspire]

I'm surprised nobody's commented on the Mauser C96...

That thing looks so goofy with the stock on it.
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. (proof)lol

[Equinox]

That thing looks so goofy with the stock on it.
To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. (proof)lol

Are you kidding? It's awesome!

[deconspire]

Thought this might be of interest since we had been talking about concealed carry:

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[Gunsmith]

Mossberg 500
Fox .410
Stevens 31
Mauser 09' Argentine in .308 (Built her myself)
Marlin 60 (first gun)
(Kit) Great Plains .50 Black Powder
And about a dozen sxs doubles in various bores and state of repair

I'm finishing gunsmithing school soon, and I've almost got my shop setup. I'm really hoping things will work out so I can specialize in customizing high end doubles.

[HackerX]

...And some bolt-action rifle, I guess I would start with a 10/22 until I get decent at basic shooting practices and will be able to tolerate recoil. I shot a Mosin-Nagant one time and it really hurt my shoulder, whereas with the 10/22 (it was a friend's customized rifle with a suppressor and scope) I could barely even tell I'd fired it.

The older pre & WWI rifles (e.g. the lee enfields, mausers and your mosin-nagant etc) have larger cartridges than the more recent rifles (following the change in infantry tactics). The .303 & 8mm both kick like a bitch. Makes you wonder how the WWI infantry kept it up. Fantastic rifles though.

If you want something between .223 (which is just a pop gun) and .308, consider .22-250. I found it a nicer balance. Putting 20+ through a .308 really starts to bruise after a while though.

We here in aussie land get pretty screwed when it comes to firearm ownage though.

[quietguy]

If you really want to reach out and stop a tank, the Anzio 20mm rifle.
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The peashooter next to it is a .50cal
A cool $13,200 USD and it's all yours.

[deconspire]

^ lol. But seriously...

*edit*

Ok, I thought you were just posting some fake-ass shit in here. But ohmotherofgod that thing is for real. :shocked:

First Impression:

Waste of tax money. A shoulder-fired 20mm? Get out. And no way that bipod is enough support. That shit gots to be weighed-down like the 240B is.

Tactically, it's not going to be used in battle, ever. There are better options for the both the intended target and range.

[Social Torture]

The Anzio 20mm Rifle... [tears are just pouring down Social Torture's face] It... It's... so... beautiful. Do you think they'd let me go deer hunting with that [sarcasm heavily implied here]?

[quietguy]

It claims to have low recoil and that beast weighs 130lbs. On the plus side it has an optional suppressor.
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---------- Post added 02-24-2012 at 07:32 PM ----------

^ lol. But seriously...

*edit*

Ok, I thought you were just posting some fake-ass shit in here. But ohmotherofgod that thing is for real. :shocked:

First Impression:

Waste of tax money. A shoulder-fired 20mm? Get out. And no way that bipod is enough support. That shit gots to be weighed-down like the 240B is.

Tactically, it's not going to be used in battle, ever. There are better options for the both the intended target and range.

WWII 20mm anti tank rifle (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)

[deconspire]

...yes lieutenant, we'd love to carry another 130lb. Thank you sir, and can I stop bending over now?

I kid, I kid...it is pretty badass. I'd love to shoot it.

---------- Post added 02-24-2012 at 10:42 PM ----------

Mauser 09' Argentine in .308 (Built her myself)


Beautiful action. Please do tell, sir.

[Equinox]

It looks like the sniper rifle from Halo, and you'd have to be as strong as the Chief to use it. :O

[JackCY]

WWII 20mm anti tank rifle (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)
Oh I think I saw this in a hunting+gun museum in Finland. Got a pic somewhere.

[boldbidder]

Nice thread!

Here's a couple toys I plan on adding to the collection in the next couple months:

LWRC IC (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) I own an LWRC M6A3 and love it to death. There's really no practical reason to get this, but it comes fully ambi from the factory (I'm a lefty), has that uber sweet spiral fluted barrel, and that Cerakote flat dark earth finish is gorgeous.

Walther PPQ (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) Ergonomically very similar to my HK P30, except its striker fired with an infinitely better trigger.

[ActiveMeasures]

Anyone here into Shooting or Firearms?

I am a competitive Pistol and Rifle Shooter. Own a small arsenal of firearms. I compete mostly in IDPA but have done a few IPSC matches. I have finished first once in Iron Sight Rifles and have a few Top 3 Finishes in IDPA SSP. All local of course, haven't gone to any national matches.

If there are others interested I'll post some pictures of my gear and firearms.

[eagleseven]

A few gun-nuts on this board, and I'm one of them. Oddly enough, I don't do much shooting, mainly due to the cost of indoor ranges (I live in an urban neighborhood). So it's more academic for me. I like military tech, both ancient and modern, in general.

Last gun I handled was an heirloom "Black Army" 1911, manufactured in the last year of WWI.

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[ActiveMeasures]

That's a beauty. Love the age on it.

---------- Post added 04-05-2012 at 01:18 AM ----------

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My toys. Mosin, Saiga 5.45, WASR3 5.56, Mossberg 500 12g, PSL54c

[Gunsmith]

...yes lieutenant, we'd love to carry another 130lb. Thank you sir, and can I stop bending over now?

I kid, I kid...it is pretty badass. I'd love to shoot it.

---------- Post added 02-24-2012 at 10:42 PM ----------



Beautiful action. Please do tell, sir.

I guess I should say building it. I carved the stock out of a blank, but the "sculpture" still needs refining and finishing. I still need to chamber and blue, but ain't really rushed since the wood takes so much time. I'll post pics when I finish up.

[deconspire]

A few gun-nuts on this board, and I'm one of them. Oddly enough, I don't do much shooting, mainly due to the cost of indoor ranges (I live in an urban neighborhood). So it's more academic for me. I like military tech, both ancient and modern, in general.

Last gun I handled was an heirloom "Black Army" 1911, manufactured in the last year of WWI.


Oooooooooh, I like this. I like how it's a bit less beefy than the newer models. Beautiful.
That's a beauty. Love the age on it.

---------- Post added 04-05-2012 at 01:18 AM ----------


My toys. Mosin, Saiga 5.45, WASR3 5.56, Mossberg 500 12g, PSL54c
The PSL54c is a Dragunov model right? (or similar) Always wanted one. What's it like shooting it and how's the accuracy?

I guess I should say building it. I carved the stock out of a blank, but the "sculpture" still needs refining and finishing. I still need to chamber and blue, but ain't really rushed since the wood takes so much time. I'll post pics when I finish up.
Nice!

[Warrior]

I have a Remington 870 12 gauge shotgun with an 18" barrel. In the next few weeks I'll be getting a SIG Sauer M1911 .45ACP Scorpion. I'll also be getting a second SIG Sauer .45 handgun, too. I'm thinking of either the Carry Scorpion or the Ultra Compact.

[deconspire]

^ I've shot the Ultra Compact. It's a really nice piece, although I wouldn't use it for concealed because the hammer channel of the slide can be obstructed preventing the pin from being hit.

[ActiveMeasures]

Oooooooooh, I like this. I like how it's a bit less beefy than the newer models. Beautiful.

The PSL54c is a Dragunov model right? (or similar) Always wanted one. What's it like shooting it and how's the accuracy?


Nice!

Yeah, the PSL54c is basically a knockoff of a Russian Dragunov, although they have absolutely no parts in common. Even the actions are different. PSL54's use the standard long action AK gas piston. Dragunovs use a short action system.

A real Dragunov will run you between $2000-$4000 depending on the make.

The PSL runs between $600-$900 depending on the make and accessories. Mine is about $900 as it stands with the upgraded PSOP optic. It shoots 7.62x54r like the Dragunov, though you can find them in .308. You just need to make sure you shoot sub 150grain grain ammo or else you could rip up the rear trunion.

They love shooting Eastern Bloc Military Surplus ammo at $100 for 440 rounds or even less.

Best group I have shot was was just over 1" at 100yards with Czech Silver Tip. With good ammo, a trigger, bipod and a few other modifications, I am confident it can be consistent sub MOA shooter.

[deconspire]

Yeah, the PSL54c is basically a knockoff of a Russian Dragunov, although they have absolutely no parts in common. Even the actions are different. PSL54's use the standard long action AK gas piston. Dragunovs use a short action system.

A real Dragunov will run you between $2000-$4000 depending on the make.

The PSL runs between $600-$900 depending on the make and accessories. Mine is about $900 as it stands with the upgraded PSOP optic. It shoots 7.62x54r like the Dragunov, though you can find them in .308. You just need to make sure you shoot sub 150grain grain ammo or else you could rip up the rear trunion.

They love shooting Eastern Bloc Military Surplus ammo at $100 for 440 rounds or even less.

Best group I have shot was was just over 1" at 100yards with Czech Silver Tip. With good ammo, a trigger, bipod and a few other modifications, I am confident it can be consistent sub MOA shooter.

Interesting. What is the max range you'd be comfortable using it at, assuming you absolutely could not miss?

[admittedheretic]

I must have been around 10 when I got a Daisy BB gun for my birthday; the single pump variety. It was so weak that BBs would bounce off birds or my brothers. I think I developed an unhealthy relationship with guns at that time because I knew it was relatively harmless, but I learned how other people reacted to the authority of a firearm. My grandfather later corrected my understandings by showing me the significant difference between bolt or pump action rifles or shotguns and semi-automatic rifles. To this day I still can't help but feel a thrill from semi, if not fully automatic weapons, but this has nothing to do with being a sportsman.

Having grown up around many sportsmen, received education from a hunter's safety program, been involved with cleaning/processing game, and ultimately grown up eating wild game, I feel I have much more respect for firearms than most people. I also have a great deal of respect for animals and value competition/sport more than I do winning. Another critical activity that changed my perspective was attending military summer camps for kids that my uncle helped to run. It was there that I shot M4 ,M16, and M9 at targets. My uncle was actually an IT personnel and ran a computer simulated shooting range. It was like the world's most awesome video game; duck hunt on steroids. Compressed air created recoil and the targets on the screens (sometimes people) were actual photography.

As an older teenager, I really changed my opinion on weapons after my initial infatuation with fully automatic rifles faded. Shot AK47s with armor perceiving rounds that would go right through fence posts and scrapped cars, AR15s with 60 round banana clips, Glock 18s, and other fully-automatic firearms that have nothing to do with being a sportsman. My favorite deer hunting rifle of all time is a simple bolt 243 because it is very accurate, small enough to handle with great dexterity, and it's light weight. It never failed to take down a deer shot in the kill zone and didn't ruin any good meat.

[Warrior]

^ I've shot the Ultra Compact. It's a really nice piece, although I wouldn't use it for concealed because the hammer channel of the slide can be obstructed preventing the pin from being hit.

I was concerned about that. I've got some time to look around for the smaller gun, so I may expand my search a little.

[deconspire]

I was concerned about that. I've got some time to look around for the smaller gun, so I may expand my search a little.

Kimber has practically the same model without that issue and a better stock trigger, although it's more expensive. I think it's called the pro carry.

[ActiveMeasures]

Interesting. What is the max range you'd be comfortable using it at, assuming you absolutely could not miss?

I have not shot it further out than 100 yards. But looking at my groups I would say I would feel comfortable hitting a man sized target out to 5-600 yards. We are getting a 600 yard range this year in South Florida so I will test my theory out. Assuming my gun shoots 2moa worst case, 600 yards would be about 12" groupings, not accounting for wind. That's good enough for my purposes.

---------- Post added 04-05-2012 at 07:58 PM ----------

I was concerned about that. I've got some time to look around for the smaller gun, so I may expand my search a little.

I've been looking at getting a Ruger LCP or LC9. The price is great and the guns have gotten much more reliable over the last few years.

[deconspire]

I have not shot it further out than 100 yards. But looking at my groups I would say I would feel comfortable hitting a man sized target out to 5-600 yards. We are getting a 600 yard range this year in South Florida so I will test my theory out. Assuming my gun shoots 2moa worst case, 600 yards would be about 12" groupings, not accounting for wind. That's good enough for my purposes.

Not for mine. Sounds like a 400m max effective. 300 ideally considering it's made to engage multiple targets. The minimum range is also just as important to me. Obviously it's not a door-kicker, but would you be feelin' good with it at 10m, multiple engagement?

...And shit, please drop the long-distance range report on it in here. :nice: :brofist:

[ActiveMeasures]

Yeah, it ain't a door kicker that's for sure.

That is what my Short Barrel Saiga12 is gonna be for.

[deconspire]

Yeah, it ain't a door kicker that's for sure.


Still though, if you had to use it as a door-kicker, what would your thoughts be?

[ActiveMeasures]

I'd mount my PK-01V optic on it. The one on my Saiga AK. Russian AK Side Mount Optics fit on SVD/PSL Rails, but PSL/SVD optics dont fit on AK mounts...

Also, I know some people chop their barrels down to 16" on PSL's. Supposedly it increases accuracy due to less whip of the barrel. However you do lose some range.

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[deconspire]

^ The reason I ask is because I want something to fill the gap between my 700, my FN FAL, and my mossberg 500. Although I have the most training on the M4, I don't like them in combat situations. So I want something that fills approx the same needs that the M4 was made for. I am leaning towards the Kalashnikov AK. I would only buy a Russian made AK, they are so much tighter than the Czech or Romanian or Chinese models. For having stamped parts I have always been impressed with it. But I also like the SVD...although I'd use my 700 (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) for range, I would like something that I could use at 300 for multiple engagements and feel comfortable clearing a house with. Cutting down the barrel might help.

I must have been around 10 when I got a Daisy BB gun for my birthday; the single pump variety. It was so weak that BBs would bounce off birds or my brothers. I think I developed an unhealthy relationship with guns at that time because I knew it was relatively harmless, but I learned how other people reacted to the authority of a firearm. My grandfather later corrected my understandings by showing me the significant difference between bolt or pump action rifles or shotguns and semi-automatic rifles. To this day I still can't help but feel a thrill from semi, if not fully automatic weapons, but this has nothing to do with being a sportsman.

Having grown up around many sportsmen, received education from a hunter's safety program, been involved with cleaning/processing game, and ultimately grown up eating wild game, I feel I have much more respect for firearms than most people. I also have a great deal of respect for animals and value competition/sport more than I do winning. Another critical activity that changed my perspective was attending military summer camps for kids that my uncle helped to run. It was there that I shot M4 ,M16, and M9 at targets. My uncle was actually an IT personnel and ran a computer simulated shooting range. It was like the world's most awesome video game; duck hunt on steroids. Compressed air created recoil and the targets on the screens (sometimes people) were actual photography.

As an older teenager, I really changed my opinion on weapons after my initial infatuation with fully automatic rifles faded. Shot AK47s with armor perceiving rounds that would go right through fence posts and scrapped cars, AR15s with 60 round banana clips, Glock 18s, and other fully-automatic firearms that have nothing to do with being a sportsman. My favorite deer hunting rifle of all time is a simple bolt 243 because it is very accurate, small enough to handle with great dexterity, and it's light weight. It never failed to take down a deer shot in the kill zone and didn't ruin any good meat.

Cool story, man! Yeah, I just named this the sportsman thread so it seemed more legit and everyone would feel comfortable posting in it. ;). I wouldn't really consider myself a sportsman, I'm just ex-military and I like guns.

[ActiveMeasures]

I recommend you get yourself a Saiga 5.45 and convert it. Stick an optic on it and you've got a great 300 yard rifle that you can kick doors down with.

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Get that, get a conversion kit from Carolina Shooters Supply, and get a Tapco Muzzle Brake. You've got yourself an AK74M.

[deconspire]

I recommend you get yourself a Saiga 5.45 and convert it. Stick an optic on it and you've got a great 300 yard rifle that you can kick doors down with.

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Get that, get a conversion kit from Carolina Shooters Supply, and get a Tapco Muzzle Brake. You've got yourself an AK74M.

I'll check one out this weekend. Good price too. But would certainly pass on a muzzle brake.

[ActiveMeasures]

Gotta have the AK74 style muzzle brake. It helps a ton with recoil.

[deconspire]

Gotta have the AK74 style muzzle brake. It helps a ton with recoil.

The recoil doesn't bother my shoulder or grouping. Muzzle brakes create too much noise and flash for me though. Barrel shroud yes, but they are of questionable legality.

[MichaelEmouse]

Gotta have the AK74 style muzzle brake. It helps a ton with recoil.

Don't they damage hearing even when wearing ear protection?

Do 5.45 or 5.56 really that bad when it comes to recoil? I vaguely remember recoil being gentle on the Canadian equivalent of the M16.

[ActiveMeasures]

The recoil doesn't bother my shoulder or grouping. Muzzle brakes create too much noise and flash for me though. Barrel shroud yes, but they are of questionable legality.

Well, it acts as a flash suppressor as well. It is actually a genius design. It doesn't reduce felt recoil, but it reduces muzzle rise substantially.


Don't they damage hearing even when wearing ear protection?

Do 5.45 or 5.56 really that bad when it comes to recoil? I vaguely remember recoil being gentle on the Canadian equivalent of the M16.

5.45 Recoil isn't as hard as 5.56. But the issue isn't felt recoil in this case, it is muzzle rise.

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[deconspire]

Well, it acts as a flash suppressor as well. It is actually a genius design. It doesn't reduce felt recoil, but it reduces muzzle rise substantially.

It should reduce felt recoil as well. That is a cool design, compensator+suppressor. You're a competitive shooter so I imagine the drawbacks of muzzle brakes are acceptable for you. For my potential use (combat), the consequences far outweigh the benefits. I might not have time to slap plugs in before I use it and I can't be deaf in that situation--which it would immediately make me. If I am sniping with it I'm immediately compromised after my first shot because it kicks up so much dust. If I'm using night vision I'll be blinded by the flash if it's not suppressed. The muzzle rise is not an issue to me if I'm engaging targets with multiple rounds at 10m and under, or engaging a single target at 200-300m with placed shots. I'm gonna chew you up regardless. That is why I would never bother using one.

5.45 Recoil isn't as hard as 5.56. But the issue isn't felt recoil in this case, it is muzzle rise.


Well, you did say it helped a ton with recoil at first, so that's why we're mentioning it. 5.56 out of a semi-auto is little more than a .22 to me. My 700 can sting, but the 7.62x variants or .308 out of a semi are easy shooters too, I think.

[Social Torture]

I'm looking for some suggestions/thoughts on a some things:

1) I'm looking for a bolt-action .308. Does anyone know of anything that's reasonably priced? Iron sights are a must because I'm useless with a scope.

2) I'm also tempted to purchase a set of Tech Sights for my Marlin XT22 .22LR. Any thoughts or suggestions here? I'm want to be able to fine tune my sights even more than the stock setup. I have to compensate for the 250m mark because the sights don't go that high.

Handling guns... I so could do it all day and sleep with it all night.

[deconspire]

I'm looking for some suggestions/thoughts on a some things:

1) I'm looking for a bolt-action .308. Does anyone know of anything that's reasonably priced? Iron sights are a must because I'm useless with a scope.


Yes. My qualifier, since you're new, is former US Army sniper. Price range, please.

[Social Torture]

I'd like to keep it under $800. I don't know how reasonable that is, but that'll be tier 1.

[deconspire]

I'd like to keep it under $800. I don't know how reasonable that is, but that'll be tier 1.

Oh, ok, nice. Can get somethin' good for that at entry level. I wanna say Remington 700p and some specific mods right off the bat (this is around $700 (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)), but give me a few and I'll post you a few options in that range so you can make the best decision for you.

---------- Post added 04-07-2012 at 02:01 PM ----------

Ok. These are the only rifles you should fuck with, imnsho. The price ranges are approx of course, and usually reflect the quality of the original stock, trigger, and bolt (with the notable exception of the Howa). Accuracy is close to a wash, although the Savage is prolly a slight touch above. I'll just let you do the research, Sniper Central is a great place to start. If you have any specific questions about any of them I'd be happy to share any knowledge I have.

Savage model 10fp (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.), $600.

Remington 700p (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.), $500.

Tikka T3 (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.), $650.

CZ 550 (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.), $650.

Howa 1500 (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.), $500.

My choice would be a heavily modded Howa 1500.

[Social Torture]

Thanks for the suggestions deaconspire. Based on the pics you're showing me. The Tikka T3 and the Howa 1500 are out of the question. I suck when shooting with a scoped gun. I do much better with a set of iron sights, so no iron sights = deal breaker. I have shot a few guns with the ghost ring sight systems and I love them. With that in mind, the Savage Model 10fp sticks out. If I seek more information, I'll let you know. Thanks again.

[sed0007]

Owned a Glock when they first came out in the 80's.

The clips would expand with use and not eject when empty.

Colt .45ACP is the ticket. SW99 in this caliber combines the Walther P99 mystique with American S&W cachet and quality. Hard to find, as 90-95% of all SW99s were made in 9mm or .40 cal. Shoots where I point it, never jams. No ftf's or fte's

Holds ten with one in the chamber and has the ability to double strike a bad primer, which a Glock cannot do.

Concelead carry easy with an untucked shirt. "Mexican carry" at 5 or 7 PM is great because you can obtain the piece with either hand.

I've had Makarovs; SKS's; Detonics 45's; S&W Model 36 5-shot .38s; Rugers; etc.

The only other piece I want to pick up is a .45 revolver in S&W or Ruger.

[deconspire]

Thanks for the suggestions deaconspire. Based on the pics you're showing me. The Tikka T3 and the Howa 1500 are out of the question. I suck when shooting with a scoped gun. I do much better with a set of iron sights, so no iron sights = deal breaker. I have shot a few guns with the ghost ring sight systems and I love them. With that in mind, the Savage Model 10fp sticks out. If I seek more information, I'll let you know. Thanks again.

NP. :). They are all tapped to use iron sights though.

Owned a Glock when they first came out in the 80's.

The clips would expand with use and not eject when empty.

Colt .45ACP is the ticket. SW99 in this caliber combines the Walther P99 mystique with American S&W cachet and quality. Hard to find, as 90-95% of all SW99s were made in 9mm or .40 cal. Shoots where I point it, never jams. No ftf's or fte's

Holds ten with one in the chamber and has the ability to double strike a bad primer, which a Glock cannot do.

Concelead carry easy with an untucked shirt. "Mexican carry" at 5 or 7 PM is great because you can obtain the piece with either hand.

I've had Makarovs; SKS's; Detonics 45's; S&W Model 36 5-shot .38s; Rugers; etc.

The only other piece I want to pick up is a .45 revolver in S&W or Ruger.

I sold my makarov a long time ago and I wish I never did. I just got tired of finding ammo for it, but it was about the smoothest shooter I ever fired.

[Social Torture]

[as ST strokes his beard] Hm I guess I never knew that they were all tapped and drilled for a set of irons. That's good to know. Rifle plus my choice of a ghost ring system, sounds like a winner. Thanks much deaconspire!

[sed0007]

NP. :). They are all tapped to use iron sights though.



I sold my makarov a long time ago and I wish I never did. I just got tired of finding ammo for it, but it was about the smoothest shooter I ever fired.



Makarov is a nice piece, as long as you get one of the East German or Bulgarian-made ones. The Russian ones are not as well finished. Know what you mean about the ammo......the Makarov round is a 9X18 as opposed to the Luger 9X19 or the .380 (9mm Kurz) 9X17.

Nice 'back-up' piece.

[The Dan Keizer]

Well, your buddy Dan owns:

CZ52 chambered in 9mm

Ruger 10-22

SKS (reassembled mutt)

Mosin-Nagant M91/30

My favorite by far is probably the M91/30. My older brother gave it to me a few years back. It is huge, powerful, old and was probably used to kill Nazis.