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vulcanhuman
12-15-2011, 12:04 AM
So I just read finished reading The Hunger Games trilogy. I was so taken with those books it was ridiculous. I had a lot of apprehension in reading them; I don't read that many modern books and I don't read ANY young adult fiction. But, many people suggested it to me and I read it and was quite literally in love. If you haven't read them, you should, you won't regret it.

Anyway, naturally, I got to thinking about the character's MBTI types and conjuring up my own theories. Thought I would share them with you and get your thoughts. Obviously, I know, it's hard to type fictional characters, but still, I thought i'd try. So here are my thoughts (some characters I couldn't decide on a type or I think are in between):

Katniss Everdeen- INTJ/ISTJ
Peeta Mellark- ENFP
Gale Hawthorne- INFJ/ENFJ
Haymitch Abernathy- ISTP
Primrose Everdeen- ENFJ
Rue- INFP/INFJ
Cinna- INFJ
President Snow- ENTJ
Finnick Odair- ESFP
Johanna Mason- ESTP

I know there are characters I left out. Some I have forgotten and/or can't think of their personality's clearly enough. Please let me know what you think!

superflax
01-07-2012, 02:58 PM
Ahh! I have only thought of Katniss and i agree with you! I think she is an INTJ. An ISTJ is a bit of a stretch because she's ALWAYS adding meaning to actions or events so she's got the intuition bit for sure.

I can see why you think Peeta is an ENFP, and I think it's so clear why he loves her because of this!

They would be PERFECT together. Urgh.

I haven't really studied the other characters but I will let you know as soon as I do!

Dancingqueen
01-07-2012, 04:05 PM
I spent all night reading book one last night, couldn't put it down!

Katniss Everdeen- INTJ -she understood the intended meaning of the gifts from Haymitch, intuition is needed for that
Peeta Mellark- ENFP
Gale Hawthorne- INTJ -He's quiet and keeps to himself
Haymitch Abernathy- INTP/INTJ -He could think 50 moves ahead
Primrose Everdeen- ENFP/INFP -a J would not have been so defenseless in life
Rue- INFP/INFJ
Cinna- INFJ
President Snow- ENTJ
Finnick Odair- ? don't know the character
Johanna Mason- ? don't know the character

superflax
01-07-2012, 04:21 PM
Gale Hawthorne- INTJ -He's quiet and keeps to himself

Could gale not be an INFJ?
He hates that he can't seem to hate Peeta.

Haymitch Abernathy- INTP/INTJ -He could think 50 moves ahead

I lean more to an INTJ, that's how him and katniss understand each other so well.

Primrose Everdeen- ENFP/INFP -a J would not have been so defenseless in life

I think INFP, she's too reserved to be an E.

Rue- INFP/INFJ

INFP, she looks to Katniss for what they should do during the games.

Cinna- INFJ

Definitely agree with you here.

President Snow- ENTJ

Agreed here too.

Malkavia
01-08-2012, 07:46 AM
So I just read finished reading The Hunger Games trilogy. I was so taken with those books it was ridiculous. I had a lot of apprehension in reading them; I don't read that many modern books and I don't read ANY young adult fiction. But, many people suggested it to me and I read it and was quite literally in love. If you haven't read them, you should, you won't regret it.

Anyway, naturally, I got to thinking about the character's MBTI types and conjuring up my own theories. Thought I would share them with you and get your thoughts. Obviously, I know, it's hard to type fictional characters, but still, I thought i'd try. So here are my thoughts (some characters I couldn't decide on a type or I think are in between):

Katniss Everdeen- INTJ/ISTJ
Peeta Mellark- ENFP
Gale Hawthorne- INFJ/ENFJ
Haymitch Abernathy- ISTP
Primrose Everdeen- ENFJ
Rue- INFP/INFJ
Cinna- INFJ
President Snow- ENTJ
Finnick Odair- ESFP
Johanna Mason- ESTP

I know there are characters I left out. Some I have forgotten and/or can't think of their personality's clearly enough. Please let me know what you think!

Almost done with the third book.

Katniss Everdeen - INTJ...although Im not sure. Definitely IXTX.
Peeta Mellark- ENFP -
Gale Hawthorne- INFJ/ISFJ - I'm sorry but "being quiet and keeping to yourself" is not an exclusive INTJ trait.
Haymitch Abernathy- ISTP
Primrose Everdeen- ESFJ - She is about manners and keeping inline with society. I am surprised everyone has put an "N" in her type. The intuitive signals Katniss, Peeta, and Haymitch give each other through the whole trilogy is almost never picked up on by her.
Rue- INFP - Although its hard to type a child and
someone who is not in the books very long. I think we just want to give her the INFP/INFJ type because we find them kind and lovable, like Rue.
Cinna- I have no idea. But I love this man to death. INFJ?
He sacrifices himself. He knows he was going to die when he made changed the wedding dress. Definitely NF.
President Snow- ENTJ
Finnick Odair- ESFP
Johanna Mason- ESTP

what yeah okay
01-08-2012, 06:16 PM
Katniss is a sensor. She always relies on past experiential knowledge above most else and isn't very intellectual. I vote ISTJ.

Claudus
01-09-2012, 03:24 AM
Katniss, no way is she an INTJ, definitely S.

Malkavia
01-09-2012, 04:16 AM
Fair enough.

superflax
01-09-2012, 05:53 AM
Katniss is a sensor. She always relies on past experiential knowledge above most else and isn't very intellectual. I vote ISTJ.

I agree with the intellect bit isn't that just because of her circumstances she doesn't put much effort into school because she's more busy trying to survive?

Also, I picked N instead of S because: she always thinks about future implications for a current action and tries to perceive underlying meaning in what people say or do and is always trying to see the big picture.

These are blatant traits of N.

vulcanhuman
01-10-2012, 01:09 AM
I spent all night reading book one last night, couldn't put it down!

Katniss Everdeen- INTJ -she understood the intended meaning of the gifts from Haymitch, intuition is needed for that
Peeta Mellark- ENFP
Gale Hawthorne- INTJ -He's quiet and keeps to himself
Haymitch Abernathy- INTP/INTJ -He could think 50 moves ahead
Primrose Everdeen- ENFP/INFP -a J would not have been so defenseless in life
Rue- INFP/INFJ
Cinna- INFJ
President Snow- ENTJ
Finnick Odair- ? don't know the character
Johanna Mason- ? don't know the character

I think you may feel differently about Gale once you read the other two books. He's really barely in book one, so I can kind of see (if I think back really hard; they are all basically one book in my mind) where you would get an INTJ vibe from him. But once you read the other two books we learn a lot more about his character.

Ahh! I have only thought of Katniss and i agree with you! I think she is an INTJ. An ISTJ is a bit of a stretch because she's ALWAYS adding meaning to actions or events so she's got the intuition bit for sure.

I can see why you think Peeta is an ENFP, and I think it's so clear why he loves her because of this!

They would be PERFECT together. Urgh.

I haven't really studied the other characters but I will let you know as soon as I do!

A lot of people have said Katniss is an "S" and I can see why. "N" are thought to be generally the more creative/dreamers and that definitely wouldn't describe Katniss. But I think she is more of a circumstantial "S." Her life forced her to not be able to use her intuition as much as I think she would have had she not had to be the breadwinner for her family and grow up so fast.

Almost done with the third book.

Katniss Everdeen - INTJ...although Im not sure. Definitely IXTX.
Peeta Mellark- ENFP -
Gale Hawthorne- INFJ/ISFJ - I'm sorry but "being quiet and keeping to yourself" is not an exclusive INTJ trait.
Haymitch Abernathy- ISTP
Primrose Everdeen- ESFJ - She is about manners and keeping inline with society. I am surprised everyone has put an "N" in her type. The intuitive signals Katniss, Peeta, and Haymitch give each other through the whole trilogy is almost never picked up on by her.
Rue- INFP - Although its hard to type a child and
someone who is not in the books very long. I think we just want to give her the INFP/INFJ type because we find them kind and lovable, like Rue.
Cinna- I have no idea. But I love this man to death. INFJ?
He sacrifices himself. He knows he was going to die when he made changed the wedding dress. Definitely NF.
President Snow- ENTJ
Finnick Odair- ESFP
Johanna Mason- ESTP

I think Prim could definitely be an "S." You could be right. As far as Gale goes, I don't think he is an "S" at all. Definitely an iNtuitive. Always thinking about the future and future possibilities. Very creative when it came to making his traps and whatnot. He was definitely not a "follow the rules" type at all whatsoever. Which is an "S" thing. I do think he could be INFJ though. Although, I think he could possibly be an "E" as well. Just because he was quiet doesn't necessarily mean he is an "I." He kind of reminds me of some ENFJ's I know. But he also reminds me of some INFJ's I know. So I don't know really.

---------- Post added 01-09-2012 at 09:13 PM ----------

Katniss is a sensor. She always relies on past experiential knowledge above most else and isn't very intellectual. I vote ISTJ.
Since when is every INTJ in existence intellectual? And Also, all of the ISTJ's I know are very intellectual, so...I don't know how that proves anything.

Katniss, no way is she an INTJ, definitely S.

I think that if you go strictly by the letters. S or N...Does she think more about future possibilities or present realities? I would definitely say present realities too, leading me to "S." But I feel that this is strictly circumstantial. She has been forced into that by events in her life. But I feel like her mode of operation and overall personality are more INTJ than ISTJ. At the very least I think she is in the middle. Anyway, that's what I think.

Malkavia
01-10-2012, 04:53 AM
I think Prim could definitely be an "S." You could be right. As far as Gale goes, I don't think he is an "S" at all. Definitely an iNtuitive. Always thinking about the future and future possibilities. Very creative when it came to making his traps and whatnot. He was definitely not a "follow the rules" type at all whatsoever. Which is an "S" thing. I do think he could be INFJ though. Although, I think he could possibly be an "E" as well. Just because he was quiet doesn't necessarily mean he is an "I." He kind of reminds me of some ENFJ's I know. But he also reminds me of some INFJ's I know. So I don't know really.


Apologies. I meant Effie Trinket. I am editing my post now. I have no idea why I saw Effie Trinket instead of Primrose Everdeen.

EDIT: Nevermind. Cant edit my post. Oh well.

superflax
01-10-2012, 05:46 AM
I stand corrected, Katniss may indeed be an ISTJ.

PurpleGiraffe
01-12-2012, 11:19 AM
Apologies. I meant Effie Trinket. I am editing my post now. I have no idea why I saw Effie Trinket instead of Primrose Everdeen.



Yeah, Effie Trinket is definitely an ESFJ. She screams dom Fe.

Rue and Prim are definitely both INFP.

It would make sense for Finnick Odair to be an ESFP. Annie definitely seems like an ISFP.

And, I can't decide on Katniss. She definitely can be a INTJ who has been forced to be ISTJ. I can see some validity to this, but I'm not sure.

3ggminey
03-28-2012, 12:01 PM
Katniss Everdeen - ISTJ (not lead Ni, does not see big picture well)
Peeta Mellark - ESFP
Haymitch Abernathy - ENFP, best conman, inspiration, Ne could help with people skills

Amphorian
03-28-2012, 12:07 PM
I stand corrected, Katniss may indeed be an ISTJ.

Have you guys considered ISTP since you're wavering between intuitive and sensor? (ISTPs can have strong intuition since they have Ni as their third function). Also ISTPs have the same interaction style as INTJs. Or an INTP (INTP's have Si as their third function) that had to learn how to survive off the land?

Dancingqueen
03-28-2012, 01:23 PM
In the movie version, Katniss definitely comes across as ISTJ not ISTP. Her face does not show emotion and she has trouble connecting with people which to me indicates:
Fi > Fe.

SShack
03-28-2012, 01:48 PM
Clearly the only reason this authoritarian society was surviving was due to them killing off all the ENTPs. Now it all makes sense to me.

Amphorian
03-28-2012, 02:12 PM
In the movie version, Katniss definitely comes across as ISTJ not ISTP. Her face does not show emotion and she has trouble connecting with people which to me indicates:
Fi > Fe.

Having Fi doesn't mean one shows less emotion. Fe is about considering the emotions of everyone (harmony of the group). Fi is about individual emotions (importance of the emotion in the individual). I addressed how the functions behave more concisely and clearly in this thread (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.).

ISTJ/INTJs have Fi as their third function, while ISTP/INTPs have Fe as their fourth function. Meaning on average a dominant thinker, compared to an auxiliary thinker is more likely to be out of touch with their emotions (since thinking is SO dominant and present in their everyday decisions). However, one must account for personal growth (hence so many ISTJ/INTJs not being in touch with their emotions).

Also ISTJs are less likely to go up against authority, even authority that they perceive to be wrong. Meaning an ISTJ is less likely to go pass the electric barbed fence like Katniss did (INTPs also show such Si behaviors now and then too, but far less likely in regards to large authorities). All IXTX usually have trouble showing emotions, regardless of their main feeling function. And IXTPs are more likely to 'explode' with emotion every now and then because they're so out of touch (like Katniss did when she found out Peeta mentioned he had a crush on her).

Dancingqueen
03-28-2012, 02:37 PM
This guy (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) makes valid points re: Fi vs. Fe showing emotion on their face (Around 1.40 into the video). According to him, Fe's show emotion or their faces more readily. I see this in my INTP husband as well. The faces he pulls are comical while my expressions tend more towards Katniss's lack thereof.

Having Fi doesn't mean one shows less emotion. Fe is about considering the emotions of everyone (harmony of the group). Fi is about individual emotions (importance of the emotion in the individual)

Amphorian
03-28-2012, 03:21 PM
This guy (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) makes valid points re: Fi vs. Fe showing emotion on their face (Around 1.40 into the video). According to him, Fe's show emotion or their faces more readily. I see this in my INTP husband as well. The faces he pulls are comical while my expressions tend more towards Katniss's lack thereof.

1. Everyone is different, even among types. Take typology with a grain of salt. I never said Katniss is not an ISTJ, but indicating how unlikely it is based on her behaviors and reasoning. However, I know for a fact my ISTJ mother doesn't always appear outwardly like many ISTJs especially around the house and in child rearing (she's messy, isn't really totalitarian over where we go, etc.) but that comes from learned childhood behavior (which Si's have a hard time abandoning). So, technically behavior isn't everything when typing individuals.

2. Just because you're INTP husband shows more emotions, doesn't make such the 'norm'. Also the youtube video you showed me indicated FJs, not TPs were more likely to show facial emotion. The video was dealing with ESFX, not IXTX anyways and is a poor example for IXTX behaviors. Technically speaking, how much emotion is showed doesn't just come from the cognitive functions, but from nurture. If a child is allowed and encouraged to show emotion they're more likely to show emotion throughout life. I personally show very little emotion or facial expressions when interacting with others because I was oppressed as a child from feeling such, while my ISTJ mother on the other hand shows more facial expressions then me on a daily basis (though not much more). During an argument I'm more likely to explode from frustration, but my facial expression rarely change, while my mother (ISTJ) is the exact opposite. The lack of facial expression is very common among introverts, and thinkers (including extroverts) and shouldn't be attributed solely to one type.

3. The video indicates the video creator is conflating two systems, Kiersey and MBTI. It made no indication that such were different systems of typology and to be weary when discussing the two together. There are articles out there that find the ISPs are inappropriately labeled as go getters, adventure seeking, etc. people when most are not like their extroverted SP counterparts. Here is an article (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) on such, as well as an article (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) on SPs seeing a pseudo big picture because of Se.

4. Typing fictional characters should also be taken with a grain of salt. We don't have enough information about them, and at times fictional characters can (and at times usually are) be hybrids of two or more types (thus making them harder to type). Batman is an excellent example because his character (depending on the author) varied between INTJ, INTP and ISTP at times (comics and all movies included). Even some people in real life are hard to type because they have mastered the skills and behaviors (perhaps even thought processes) of other types (this happens more so in older, mature and well rounded adults). Also undeveloped individuals may show traits of their shadow functions and be warped versions of healthy types.

Dancingqueen
03-28-2012, 03:35 PM
1. the youtube video you showed me indicated FJs, not TPs were more likely to show facial emotion. The video was dealing with ESFX, not IXTX anyways and is a poor example for IXTX behaviors..


The video illustrates the differences between Fi and Fe.

XXFJ's and XXTP's are Fe like ISTP's and show more emotion on their face overall and all XXFP and XXTJ's are Fi's like ISTJ's and show less emotion, preferring to keep it inside.

This is useful for typing someone though I'm only doing this an a mental exercise in this case as this is a fictional character. You are correct in that age and culture/upbringing makes these natural traits harder to spot.

Amphorian
03-28-2012, 04:01 PM
The video illustrates the differences between Fi and Fe.

XXFJ's and XXTP's are Fe like ISTP's and show more emotion on their face overall and all XXFP and XXTJ's are Fi's like ISTJ's and show less emotion, preferring to keep it inside.

This is useful for typing someone though I'm only doing this an a mental exercise in this case as this is a fictional character. You are correct in that age and culture/upbringing makes these natural traits harder to spot.

No, the video somewhat touched on Fi and Fe, but was primarily about the differences between ESFJs and ESFPs. Meaning it didn't illustrate Fi and Fe on a broad level (which I did in the INTJf thread I linked to).

Having Tertiary/Fourth Fe or Fi is not like having Dominant/Auxiliary Fi or Fe. Also comparing introverts to extroverts in such a manner is absurd, because dominant Fe (ESFJ) and dominant Se (ESFP) behave quite differently to their introvert counterparts, including in facial expression. Though in truth it also comes down more to the individual and their upbringing. I already noted introverts and thinkers in general are the types most likely to have less facial expressions. While ESFJs and ESFPs are both going have more facial expressions then IXTXs in general; however, the difference is ESFPs are going have a 'mask' of facial expressions to move about their surrounding more easily. While ESFJs' Fe tends to have a 'mimic' behavior since that is how Fe doms/aux related to others, so they too might not be showing their emotions, but merely mimicking to fit in or make someone else comfortable.

So yes, Fe doms are more likely to show their emotions through facial expression then Fi aux. But, taking note of that, that means the further the feeling function is from the dominant function the less likely it is expressed. Underdevelopment of a function also means that function is not going be readily expressed either.

So yes, you are correct because Fi is an introverted function that means an Fi users is less likely to reveal their emotions or internal value system. But just because an Fi users doesn't verbally express such doesn't mean their facial expression isn't showing such (as noted in the difference between my ISTJ mom and I). Again the ability to express (not just facial expressions) one self is based more so on nurture not nature (which indicates how developed the cognitive function may be in a given individual).

An ESFP can be far more revealing then an ESFJ, and an ISTJ can be more revealing then an ISTP in regards to facial expression. Generalities only go so far, especially considering facial expression isn't the best indicator of type. On the contrary behavior and why that person has such behavior (cognitive processes that resulted in them performing that behavior) as well as their interaction styles is the best indicator of someone's type.

Dancingqueen
03-28-2012, 04:26 PM
No, the video somewhat touched on Fi and Fe, but was primarily about the differences between ESFJs and ESFPs. .

This is a better video for the point I meant to express:

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Amphorian
03-28-2012, 04:59 PM
This is a better video for the point I meant to express:

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And here's a perspective from an ISTP: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Look, we could show each other videos all day, but as I already stated every person is different. I'm NOT in disagreement that Fe on average is more 'animated' or 'outward' then an Fi facial expression. On the contrary I agreed with such. However, using my video I can point out that ISTP is more animated then me (I'm heavily Ti-Ni with low Se because of my upbringing). And that ISTP mentioned is what about what function is being engaged. You can tell from the video I linked to as well, that his Se is engaged because he's moving his arms, shoulders and eyebrows (an ISTP is going try to explain something visually and kinetically); however, other then that there is no other huge facial expressions from him.

And lookie another youtube video comparing ISTJ and ISTP: To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Now, this video is from the same guy that you linked to for the recent Fi/Fe video. And he does mention Fi and Fe, in manner of dress and other factors. And if we go with this guy's logic, that means Katniss is an more so an ISTP then an ISTJ, because even though she has to wear plain clothes you can tell she has this 'refined and stylish taste' and even wears the mockingjay pin during the tournament (an act of defiance and supporting her own style). Her stylists also wanted to bring out her strong personality, and styled her in very simple, and elegant clothes, but in clothes that also spoke powerfully to the audience. Also, Katniss's movements and actions were bold when acting on her feelings and sometimes loud (like the time Katniss went after Peeta when he mentioned he had a crush on her). Katniss was also very smooth with her facial expressions and highly expressive when on the show (not at first, but quickly became at ease).

So even your argument of facial expressions is in favor of ITP over ITJ because even though Katniss didn't usually show facial expressions (which is normal of all IXTXs), when she did they were loud, bold and highly expressive. Also, considering her circumstances, she was engaging her thinking over her feelings more often then not which led her to show little facial expression regardless of having Fi or Fe.

But your argument's foundation, facial expressions, is less supportive compared to someone mentioning behavior, why that behavior has manifested and interaction styles.

Dancingqueen
03-28-2012, 06:21 PM
Look, we could show each other videos all day, but as I already stated every person is different. I'm NOT in disagreement that Fe on average is more 'animated' or 'outward' then an Fi facial expression. On the contrary I agreed with such. However, using my video I can point out that ISTP is more animated then me (I'm heavily Ti-Ni with low Se because of my upbringing)..


You can't use someone from a crap childhood as a baseline for emotional expression and you need a baseline to determine average variance for Fi or Fe. The fact that you had an emotionally repressed childhood means you are less expressive than "normally raised" ISTP's. Non emotionally repressed ISTP's will have more animated and varied facial expressions than non emotionally repressed ISTJ's due to their Fe.

So what's your point? You're a bad example to type MBTI from?


As for determining peoples motivations based on behavior, it is impossible to reverse engineer motivation from behavior. That is why we use Fi/Fe and Ti/Te to determine type, because behaviors such as pausing before speaking (Ti) and expressing emotion in the upper half of the face (Fe) are outwardly visible unlike "motivations".

Ambra
03-28-2012, 06:46 PM
Katniss was very clearly an infp in shadow to me.

Everything was Fi heavy. Each move she made was because of her values. She stuffed her own opinion and feelings when she had to manifest her Te but you could tell it wasn't her default state. It was because her values to her family gave her no other choice.

Haymich seemed more intj than she did.

Straynger
03-29-2012, 04:22 AM
I vote for an 'S' for Katniss.

Although I do agree that the evidence for her looking toward the future at times is real, though it is interesting how she heavily displays looking both toward the future and present in equal amounts.

One possibility is that in her capacity as character, she is 'S', but in her capacity as narrator she's 'N' (after all, isn't that what most of the 'looking forward' is, explaining to the readers whats going on--and what narrator isn't 'N'?).

As for T vs F, what about the fact that she cried when the contestants kept dying (is 'contestants' the right word? its not really a game show lol)? This leans me toward 'F'.

Plus, do any of you INTJ's identify with her at all? I'm hardcore INTJ and I feel like I don't know her in the slightest bit (clearly that's invalid for MBTI testing, but it still says something). Also, I'm a dude, but still...

Owfin
03-29-2012, 09:58 AM
Only read the first book.

I say Katniss is an N, and her infusing of meaning into everything occasionally seemed ridiculous to me. However, it wasn't strange meaning-filling, like Ni in an ISXP. It was mostly sensible.

I will actually call her an ENTJ. She acted the whole love thing for a lot of the book just to get food, which is an objectively useful outcome based on the criteria being "not dying", which is what you are trying to do in the Hunger Games.

Amphorian
03-29-2012, 11:35 AM
You can't use someone from a crap childhood as a baseline for emotional expression and you need a baseline to determine average variance for Fi or Fe. The fact that you had an emotionally repressed childhood means you are less expressive than "normally raised" ISTP's. Non emotionally repressed ISTP's will have more animated and varied facial expressions than non emotionally repressed ISTJ's due to their Fe.

So what's your point? You're a bad example to type MBTI from?

The point of my own personal experience is:

1) There is always exceptions to the rule
2) Nurture has a large part to play in outward behaviors
3) We actually don't have data on such, and using something superfluous as facial expression is an extremely poor argument. Especially if you're using such reasoning as your main argument.

Why can you not accept that your primary argument Fi>Fe through facial expression is a poor one?

Not to mention your argument falls apart further when it is taken into account an actor was playing Katniss. We were observing an actor's portrayal of Katniss combined with the director's interpretation of Katniss, not the author's authentic Katniss.

However, even with that said, Katniss didn't lack as much facial expression as your argument states (which I already went over). So question, why did you skip over that? Including the fact I linked to the same youtube user that you just recently linked to for Fe vs Fi (via the ISTJ vs ISTP video)?

As for determining peoples motivations based on behavior, it is impossible to reverse engineer motivation from behavior. That is why we use Fi/Fe and Ti/Te to determine type, because behaviors such as pausing before speaking (Ti) and expressing emotion in the upper half of the face (Fe) are outwardly visible unlike "motivations".

I already addressed the fact Katniss was portrayed by an actor, which muddles the true character from the books. So looking at facial expressions is completely arbitrary and meaningless in this situation. Other factors are needed to be looked at, like... motivations (determining the cognitive process)! And how one behaves in regards to others (interaction style).

followthehippos
03-29-2012, 11:59 AM
That ISTP guy is a little self-conscious and awkward while making that video. He should have just invoked his extroverted side and explained it. Additionally, you can see when he is using Ti. The reason his Fe explanation is choppy is due to his usage of Ti to articulate Fe. Instead of using Fe to demonstrate Fe. He should of read a sad letter, or recorded himself after something that makes him feel genuine emotion to illustrate his weaker usage of Fe. Perhaps one day I'll record my INTP friend to properly illustrate Fe instead of articulating through Ni-Te. It helps to see the 'real' thing.

Amphorian
03-29-2012, 12:28 PM
That ISTP guy is a little self-conscious and awkward while making that video. He should have just invoked his extroverted side and explained it. Additionally, you can see when he is using Ti. The reason his Fe explanation is choppy is due to his usage of Ti to articulate Fe. Instead of using Fe to demonstrate Fe. He should of read a sad letter, or recorded himself after something that makes him feel genuine emotion to illustrate his weaker usage of Fe. Perhaps one day I'll record my INTP friend to properly illustrate Fe instead of articulating through Ni-Te. It helps to see the 'real' thing.

My example of utilizing youtube videos was just that, they're not that well made. And using youtube videos to support one's argument isn't the best choice of citation. Hence in my first posts to DancingQueen I was linking to articles from established typology sites and already well articulated posts made on INTJf.

JungianShadow
04-28-2012, 10:45 PM
I don't see how Snow is extraverted. Sure he's the President and all, but being on television comes with the job. He has an obligation to keep the nation under control. I think of him as leaning towards introverted. Because they say in the second book that he doesn't attend parties hosted at his own mansion. Plus he's definitely a mastermind of sorts, trying to keep the peace of Panem under control and keep his leadership.

joliet
04-29-2012, 02:49 AM
Katniss - INTJ. Owlfin may be right that she's an ENTJ, but I think people tend to lean towards seeing her as an introvert.

Collins has described Katniss as being an independent survivalist, lethal, but good at thinking outside the box. Katniss's past hardships (her father's death, mother's depression, and near starvation) have made her a survivor, and she will endure hardship and hard work to preserve her own life and the life of her family.

Thinking outside of the box is more of an intuitive thing. Sensors can develop this, but it is not as natural for them. Katniss can think very quickly and naturally outside of the box.

They create an environment in which Katniss develops, in which she is created, this girl who slips under this fence, which isn’t electrified, and learns to be a hunter. Not only that, she’s a survivalist, and along with that goes a degree of independent thinking that is unusual in the districts.

This goes along with Jungian/MBTI theory that Ns are less common than Ss. Because of her environment, she is willed into learning sensory strengths. However, her independent thinking is unusual despite being raised in this environment, suggesting that she probably has intuitive thinking leanings. (If she had common rather than unusual thinking, it'd mean she's sharing similar thought functions as most other people, which would suggest S.)

she does not understand many social cues and is often ignorant of other people's emotions, such as when she doesn't recognize Gale's hints at his growing affection for her.

Less Fe, more Fi.


And, if it interests anyone, Suzanne Collins is likely an N.

Symbolically, I suppose, Katniss is something like a mockingjay in and of herself. She is a girl who should never have existed.

---------- Post added 04-28-2012 at 10:57 PM ----------

Although I do agree that the evidence for her looking toward the future at times is real, though it is interesting how she heavily displays looking both toward the future and present in equal amounts.

According to...Jung? Keirsey? One of them...primary focus on the future is actually more of an NF thing. Rationals focus on time in all of its existence; past, present, and future--with value in making the best choice for the future.

blueberry
05-16-2012, 06:24 PM
Only read the first book.

I say Katniss is an N, and her infusing of meaning into everything occasionally seemed ridiculous to me. However, it wasn't strange meaning-filling, like Ni in an ISXP. It was mostly sensible.

I will actually call her an ENTJ. She acted the whole love thing for a lot of the book just to get food, which is an objectively useful outcome based on the criteria being "not dying", which is what you are trying to do in the Hunger Games.

I agree, I think Katniss is a J. Either ENTJ or ENFJ (the latter because of her cult following and ability to be a leader)

painfulltruf
05-16-2012, 06:36 PM
Sutherland played the only possible INTJ character in that film, and honestly, I would question that, given the total lack of probability, morality, ethics, logical end, that the government, the story was based on.

It was a pretty nonsensical premise, almost walked out.

JungianShadow
05-21-2012, 11:11 PM
Sutherland played the only possible INTJ character in that film, and honestly, I would question that, given the total lack of probability, morality, ethics, logical end, that the government, the story was based on.

It was a pretty nonsensical premise, almost walked out.

I'd say that Sutherland did capture Snow the way he would look, and how he feels about Katniss and her sense of revolutionism. I mean they expanded his role in the movie, compared to the book, and this kinda acted as a gateway to some of Snow's personality that we will see in the upcoming "Catching Fire"

OwenF
05-24-2012, 01:45 AM
I'm thinking ISTP or ISTJ for Katniss, and I'm inclined to agree with Amp about ISTP. There are defiant, rebellious ISTJs, but those qualities fit the ISTP pattern better.

Add to this that it's kind of hard for people who write action-oriented fiction not to make their protagonists ISTPs. Loner without big plans is forced into unpleasant situation; loner is an athlete and an improviser; loner becomes reluctant hero, though is occasionally emotionally retarded and/or insensitive. It's the default setting for this kind of story, and Collins doesn't seem to be doing much to complicate the genre.

Moxiie
05-24-2012, 02:12 AM
At first, after I finished the first book I thought Katniss was an INTJ without a doubt. Now having finished all three, I agree with ISTP. According to MB:

ISTPs may sometimes seem to act without regard for procedures, directions, protocol, or even their own safety. But while their approach may seem haphazard, it is in fact based on a broad store of knowledge developed over time through action and keen observation. ISTPs enjoy self-sufficiency and take pride in developing their own solutions to problems.

She consistently does this throughout the series, esp in book 2 and 3.

Although her attraction to Peeta is pure INTJ/ENFP :)

KatrinSka
10-29-2012, 03:36 PM
I am currently reading the series and came to the same conclusion. Katniss does remind me a lot of me when I was her age and early on into my career. I started as an ISTJ and later became a strong INTJ once my experience and intuition were better honed.

I love the way she talks to herself in her head, is instantly problem solving and weighing all options when faced with a challenge, is always meticulously prepared for anything, completely oblivious to others' attraction to her, and confused and befuddled by her own feelings. Yeah, that was me (still is!)

Ender
10-29-2012, 07:44 PM
I find the notion of Katniss being an "S" odd. Will need to give that some thought, considering how long it has been since I read the series and my memory not being sharp on how she functioned.

I think it's worth noting that many of the characters named in the OP (if not all) suffered deep emotional/psychological trauma. With that in mind, you can't just slap an MBTI on without first considering the breaking points they were pushed to on a frequent basis.

Also worth noting is that, even just from what I recall of the first book, things like remembering details were imperative to survival (I can think of an example, but I don't want to get too specific in case anyone who hasn't read the books is reading). They weren't something you could just shirk on and be fine. Furthermore, Katniss did have some reasonable connections with people - she just wasn't good at the whole "popular" thing, which supports the T angle more than anything, but could also be explained by introversion and the trauma she went through early on.

catzama
10-29-2012, 07:55 PM
Welcome to INTJf, where all your favorite characters are INTJs.

P.S.- Fuck you, sensors.

Ender
10-29-2012, 08:14 PM
Welcome to INTJf, where all your favorite characters are INTJs.

P.S.- Fuck you, sensors.
Most protagonists would likely be typed as a combination of the two. Everyman/woman characters are rarely confined to a realistic personality set. They're meant to be larger than life and in the process, go beyond what we see on a day-to-day basis.

In short, the closest you'd probably get to accuracy in typing the heros is E or I (and the protagonist is usually I due to being a byronic (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) hero).

catzama
10-29-2012, 08:24 PM
Most protagonists would likely be typed as a combination of the two. Everyman/woman characters are rarely confined to a realistic personality set. They're meant to be larger than life and in the process, go beyond what we see on a day-to-day basis.

In short, the closest you'd probably get to accuracy in typing the heros is E or I (and the protagonist is usually I due to being a byronic (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) hero).

I read somewhere (TvTropes I think) that the archetypal INTJ is a Byronic Hero. It just would make sense for 75% of characters to be sensors since most people are sensors. Also, I'm biased towards that group.

Moxiie
10-29-2012, 08:32 PM
Many people seem to think Katniss is an ISTP ;D

Ender
10-29-2012, 08:36 PM
I read somewhere (TvTropes I think) that the archetypal INTJ is a Byronic Hero. It just would make sense for 75% of characters to be sensors since most people are sensors. Also, I'm biased towards that group.
I understand the bias because I'm biased toward characters being Ns. This is where the model breaks down in my mind though and I go, "Oh wait, maybe they just don't fit MBTI types."

Cause if you stop and think about it, if someone designs a protagonist that the majority of people can relate with and feel close to on some level, that's covering a lot of different types of people. It just doesn't make sense at that point to see the character as a markedly static and narrow type. I think the whole point of a well-written protagonist is that he/she can't fit into a box.

catzama
10-29-2012, 08:41 PM
I understand the bias because I'm biased toward characters being Ns. This is where the model breaks down in my mind though and I go, "Oh wait, maybe they just don't fit MBTI types."

Cause if you stop and think about it, if someone designs a protagonist that the majority of people can relate with and feel close to on some level, that's covering a lot of different types of people. It just doesn't make sense at that point to see the character as a markedly static and narrow type. I think the whole point of a well-written protagonist is that he/she can't fit into a box.

I can't relate to Peeta at all. I pretty much don't really like him. I identify more with Katniss, Gale, or Johanna.

Sorry, but Peeta is the worst.

9272
10-30-2012, 01:37 AM
I almost want to watch it again because i'm sure main character isn't INTJ, but she also doesn't seem to be ISTJ either.

I'd say ISTP because her plans are spontaneous and the obvious fact that she's rather good with tools naturally.

But...i don't want to watch it again because i found that it leads you to view the slaughter of children as normal and even tricks you into cheering it on by creating characters that will almost surely find unanimous hatred amongst the crowd.

Tactical Panda
11-03-2012, 11:05 AM
Why doesn't anyone think Katniss is a Fe user?

vulcanhuman
11-22-2012, 03:13 AM
Since so many people seem to be voicing their opinions on Katniss based on the movie, I would just like to say that my thoughts on the characters' personalities were based on the book, NOT the movie. Trust me, if you haven't read the book, the movie is a very different thing. Not all of the characters personalities are portrayed in quite the same way.

And as far as Katniss goes if I were to judge her solely based on the movie I would say she is ISTP as well. But from the book I still lean towards her being INTJ.

leadthebest
02-03-2013, 12:07 AM
lol its funny... We are trying to guess or judge what their personalities should be. The only way to know for sure is to get the characters to do the test, but hold on... unfortunately they are fictional...