Wasting time

[volk]

I had a little discussion at work today on what can be considered as waste of time. The subject which came up specifically was gaming. For me a waste of time would be doing anything that does not manifest itself in the real physical world in one way or another. Thus I would consider spending hundreds of hours on playing computer games a waste of time. Of course a moderate amount of gaming can be seen as mental relaxation, but playing several hours a day is a waste of time to me. It would be far better to spend all this time on learning how to play a guitar. That's actually a skill which manifests itself in the real world.

[Monte314]

I pretty much agree.

I remember sitting on a plane coming back from a conference... a young man sat down next to me, and immediately put on headphones to listen to noise (I'm sure he thought it was music) for the entire flight. When we landed, he took off his headphones and left the plane.

I spent the trip grading papers and performing some mathematical analyses.

As I watched the young man leave the plane, I thought: "An hour older, and not one minute wiser".

[konec]

I pretty much agree.

I remember sitting on a plane coming back from a conference... a young man sat down next to me, and immediately put on headphones to listen to noise (I'm sure he thought it was music) for the entire flight. When we landed, he took off his headphones and left the plane.

I spent the trip grading papers and performing some mathematical analyses.

As I watched the young man leave the plane, I thought: "An hour older, and not one minute wiser".

or he put on the headphones to close himself off from the outside world to get some time to think and maybe in this hour of alone time he put together a formule that will cure cancer... who will tell?

[blueback]

I think most people are afraid of themselves. They don't want any responsibility at all and that includes for themselves. The problem is that they can't physically remove themselves from themselves so they try to do it mentally.

Blocking out their own thoughts with video games, or music, or adrenaline activities, or drugs, etc. Just because something manifests in the external world doesn't mean it is a good idea. Einstein spent most of his time not manifesting anything in the real world, and the results are barely manifested in the real world, but the results are still good.

It's hard to tell. That guy listening to music on the plane might have been brainstorming about how to have an uncomfortable conversation with his girlfriend when he got home. My generation and the ones after mine don't even consider listening to music to be an activity. It is just something that happens in the background. To him listening to music might have been no different from just sitting there. He probably wasn't doing anything useful, but there's not telling.

Besides, like I said previously, just because something manifests in reality doesn't mean it is a good idea. Maybe instead of grading papers you should have been learning guitar because that is what you really want to do and you are just using work to block out your own thoughts just like the kid was using music. There is not telling.

[Undead Bonzi]

Some of the best time spent in my life has been time wasted.

What should the young man on the plane have been doing. Should he have been lifting hand weights so he was stronger? Should he have practiced singing aloud to the music to improve his vocal abilities? Or maybe he was on vacation and didn't feel compelled to do anything but relax. We will never know so we probably shouldn't pass judgement.

If those people live the lives they want to it doesn't really matter one bit if someone else thinks it was a 'waste of time'. It is their life, worry about yourself before you 'waste time' passing judgement on others.

[Eric86]

I get rather tired of people calling things worthless when all it really is is that they feel a bit too strongly about their personal preferences to the point that anyone who is different is wrong.

[True Rune]

I go with what the two above posters say. There are some things we can all call 'wasting time', but we shouldn't judge by our own preferences. I mean, I'd call what I call 'sex hunters' and fools living their whole lives with the impossible hope of becoming materially wealthy a waste of time.

[SirJac]

I don't think anything is a waste of time, just sometimes it is difficult to measure the benifits. I game alot, it's my hobby. If you see me sitting in front of my computer playing away, you could easily say that I'm wasting my time.

But you don't see me unwinding from the pressures of the day, relaxing and thinking over the problems I faced and will face without the stress clouding my vision. As a result I make better choices and yesterday's stress doesn't carry into the next day.

You don't see me challenging parts of the game to find better solutions then what I've used previously, giving my brain some exercise in problem solving. It may not be brain age, but it still helps keep me sharp.

You don't see me learning about the economics of a virtual economy, measuring supply and demand to maximize profit. Gaining knowlage that is applicable outside the game.

You don't see me leading a group of other players through challenges of the game, helping me learn new skills and be a better leader both in games and real life.

You don't see me gaming with a old friend that lives far away, making time to get together and have some fun. When we do get a chance to see each other our friendship is still as strong as it's ever been no matter how much time passes.

Even when it appears to an observer that an activity is a waste of time, there are almost always benifits that cannot be seen or measured but still contribute towards living a more fulfilling life.

[Monte314]

or he put on the headphones to close himself off from the outside world to get some time to think and maybe in this hour of alone time he put together a formule that will cure cancer... who will tell?

You could be right. But I'd rather condemn him without a stitch of evidence and spend the rest of my life feeling superior.

[Jakalwarrior]

As a nihilist, life is only about enjoyment and trying to be happy. From my point of view, I wont take anything with me to the next life since there wont be one! I learn when I am enjoying it or when it will ease some other path to allow for more enjoyment of fulfillment. If I want to "waste time" having fun or relaxing, I consider it time very well spent.

[kevintr]

You could be right. But I'd rather condemn him without a stitch of evidence and spend the rest of my life feeling superior.

I prefer to be right because the facts back me up, but I can be quite judgemental too.

[iMiki]

I don't see why my mother thinks analytical thinking on something she considers a waste (e.g. philosophy) just wastes my time. How could that waste my time if it exercises my mind? I told her I don't see why she wastes her time watching gossip on television.

There are some things we can all call 'wasting time', but we shouldn't judge by our own preferences.

I agree.

[zibber]

It would be far better to spend all this time on learning how to play a guitar. That's actually a skill which manifests itself in the real world.

And then?

I don't see how real world manifestation logically leads you to view some activity as being "better" than another.

[volk]

And then?

I don't see how real world manifestation logically leads you to view some activity as being "better" than another.

Because real world manifestation is beneficiary to a far larger group of people then something that only exists in the virtual reality or somebodies head. After all most of us live in this space we like to call reality.

People like Einstein certainly deserve a credit for developing ideas which originally were not readily applicable to the reality. Though it's not uncommon that ideas start out as pure theories in the field of physics and mathematics. Chances of useful results in the future are also quite promising making it a worthwhile investment to develop such ideas.

I just don't see how spending 150 hours on WoW each week is contributing to the rest of the world and how anything useful may arise from it. Better learn how to program and contribute to some open source project.

[Undead Bonzi]

Because real world manifestation is beneficiary to a far larger group of people then something that only exists in the virtual reality or somebodies head. After all most of us live in this space we like to call reality.

People like Einstein certainly deserve a credit for developing ideas which originally were not readily applicable to the reality. Though it's not uncommon that ideas start out as pure theories in the field of physics and mathematics. Chances of useful results in the future are also quite promising making it a worthwhile investment to develop such ideas.

I just don't see how spending 150 hours on WoW each week is contributing to the rest of the world and how anything useful may arise from it. Better learn how to program and contribute to some open source project.

(I'm going to play the devils advocate here even though I am rather opposed to this whole judging others for wasting time business)

Ah but we have established that listening to music is a 'waste of time'. Thus the man who learns to play the guitar and then plays for a crowd is creating a greater sum total of 'wasted time' because he 'wasted time' learning the skill to physically manifest music which was then used to 'waste others time'.

A number of those who play WoW that obsessively (100hrs+) often periodically sell their accounts on e-bay or the like for fairly large sums of money. Thus they are providing a wanted service to a different group of people. Are they still wasting time?

I am not religious and I would view those who go to church and listen to a man tell them stories as 'wasting time'. Going to church has no real direct and specific benefits to the world at large, yet people still go. Yet I would be wrong to judge because there are people who can't define their own moral guidance or who need someone else to give them a sense of purpose and community, so the time is not wasted.

Time wasted is a relative perspective and changes with each viewer. The only time that you can truly judge if it was wasted is your own.

[Fej]

Everything is a waste of time. In the end you will die. Nothing you did, achieved, conquered, purchased, or knew will truly matter once you die. It may matter to other people, but not to you, as you will be dead.

So you might as well do things you enjoy, while there is still time...

[Brutananadilewski]

I just don't see how spending 150 hours on WoW each week is contributing to the rest of the world and how anything useful may arise from it. Better learn how to program and contribute to some open source project.

Who cares? So long as a person is happy with themselves, and aren't hurting anyone, then why does it matter to anyone?

[blueback]

I just don't see how spending 150 hours on WoW each week is contributing to the rest of the world...

Maybe it's keeping him from becoming a serial killer.

There is a difference between negative and positive in the sense that something can be removed or added seperate from the idea that something can be good or bad. So you can remove something good or bad and you can add something good or bad.

Positive Positive : adding good : I give you a cookie
Positive Negative : adding bad : I give you poison
Negative Positive : removing good : I take your kidney
Negative Negative : removing bad : I take your cancer

[Claptonian]

Of course a moderate amount of gaming can be seen as mental relaxation, but playing several hours a day is a waste of time to me. It would be far better to spend all this time on learning how to play a guitar. That's actually a skill which manifests itself in the real world.

I agree with this on a personal level, as I once spent an obscene amount of time gaming and then started spending an obscene amount of time playing guitar. ;) This was an incredibly positive change and its opened up many real world opportunities, both personal and professional. But if someone else is happier playing a computer game, so be it. I don't think any of us have an obligation to contribute to the world.

But I have found that a lot of people who devote the majority of their time to a computer game (particularly games like WoW and my former vice, City of Heroes) tend to bitch about their lives a lot and seem generally unhappy. This is most likely because they feel that what they're doing is not productive because it doesn't manifest itself in the real world.

This is something I do have a problem with. I have no tolerance for people who bitch about their state of affairs. If you're not happy with your life, change it.

[Seppuku Savant]

As a nihilist, life is only about enjoyment and trying to be happy. From my point of view, I wont take anything with me to the next life since there wont be one! I learn when I am enjoying it or when it will ease some other path to allow for more enjoyment of fulfillment. If I want to "waste time" having fun or relaxing, I consider it time very well spent.

Agreed.

Though, I'm really uncertain of why this is a point for discussion. Why worry yourself over what someone else does with their time? As long as it doesn't directly affect you.

[Vastfnup]

People that sell their WoW accounts get a pittance for their time spent in the US or Canada. There are people who live in countries where labor is very cheap who make money leveling up people's characters and farming money. For those of you who haven't heard of this let me state it plainly: People generate fake internet money and sell it for real world money.

But aside from that strange reality, time is only really wasted if you don't accomplish or learn anything and you don't have a good time doing (or attempting) it. I feel like the time I spend traveling from one location to another is wasted. Anyone selling a teleporter?

[Jgib5328]

I usually have thought that anything that isn't done to improve of benefit yourself is a waste of time. I consider recreation not a waste of time, because it can be helped to give you adequate relaxation, which will allow you to perform better at the tasks that are important. Excessive recreation could be considered a waste of time, but that depends on your purpose in your life. Some people don't need to be working all of the time, they just aim to enjoy life, as the nihilist said.

I like Vast's definition, that it's a waste of time if you are benefiting yourself, doing something useful or if you aren't enjoying yourself. What would be the point of doing that? There would be none.

[Antares]

As a nihilist, life is only about enjoyment and trying to be happy. From my point of view, I wont take anything with me to the next life since there wont be one! I learn when I am enjoying it or when it will ease some other path to allow for more enjoyment of fulfillment. If I want to "waste time" having fun or relaxing, I consider it time very well spent.

Isn't that a hedonist? As a nihilist, life wouldn't be about anything. It's all meaningless.

[ssrprotege]

Isn't that a hedonist? As a nihilist, life wouldn't be about anything. It's all meaningless.

I don't know much about "isms" in philosophy, but I will try anyway. Correct me if I am wrong.

My understanding on Jakalwarrior's opinion is this. Because life is meaningless, live the moment. Once you live that moment, that moment becomes meaningless. It's better to "enjoy" the moment than not enjoying it...

If I were a nihilist, should I not make any judgement (such as the underlined part) about anything?

[Jakalwarrior]

Isn't that a hedonist? As a nihilist, life wouldn't be about anything. It's all meaningless.

If you kill yourself you are a nihilist, if you are a nihilist hanging around to try to squeeze some enjoyment out of life I guess that does make you a bit of a hedonist lol. I dont consider pleasure to mean anything either, but from my point of view it is all there is.
I guess it is possible to be a nihilist and hang around with no goal just languishing or to be unable to commit suicide because of the inability to overcome instinct but that doesn't sound like much of an existence.

[Goose]

Everything is a waste of time. In the end you will die. Nothing you did, achieved, conquered, purchased, or knew will truly matter once you die. It may matter to other people, but not to you, as you will be dead.

So you might as well do things you enjoy, while there is still time...


if its not keeping you alive almost any thing we do is entertainment.... recreation

[zibber]

I'm a nihilist, but for me suicide is certainly not the most obvious option. It requires an intensely violent act. Actually, an apathetic, relatively carefree (because we don't really care about most things people get riled up about) lifestyle, going the least disagreeable route, is much more "logical" than suicide. For me, cannabis and gaming are two very obvious pastimes, as they let you zone out and bypass the inevitable existential lines of thought for a while. Meaningless my behind.

Because real world manifestation is beneficiary to a far larger group of people then something that only exists in the virtual reality or somebodies head. After all most of us live in this space we like to call reality.

People like Einstein certainly deserve a credit for developing ideas which originally were not readily applicable to the reality. Though it's not uncommon that ideas start out as pure theories in the field of physics and mathematics. Chances of useful results in the future are also quite promising making it a worthwhile investment to develop such ideas.

I just don't see how spending 150 hours on WoW each week is contributing to the rest of the world and how anything useful may arise from it. Better learn how to program and contribute to some open source project.

This is a utilitarian point of view, not a general truth. You'll have to do better than that to argue why something that manifests in the real world would truly be more meaningful than something that doesn't!

[Phalanx]

How ironic it would be for those who bash videogames if our entire existence were contained neatly within a game played by a time-wasting nerd in some grander, meta-universe.

Feel free to beat me to the top of the Sisyphean hill.

[Fej]

How ironic it would be for those who bash videogames if our entire existence were contained neatly within a game played by a time-wasting nerd in some grander, meta-universe.

Feel free to beat me to the top of the Sisyphean hill.

Exactly. And that nerd is God for those who are religious. If God existed then it would indeed be a game played by a time-wasting nerd(God).

[Deepdelver]

I had a little discussion at work today on what can be considered as waste of time. The subject which came up specifically was gaming. For me a waste of time would be doing anything that does not manifest itself in the real physical world in one way or another. Thus I would consider spending hundreds of hours on playing computer games a waste of time. Of course a moderate amount of gaming can be seen as mental relaxation, but playing several hours a day is a waste of time to me. It would be far better to spend all this time on learning how to play a guitar. That's actually a skill which manifests itself in the real world.
I think I agree with you. I think television is a waste of time too. But I appreciate the person who learned how to play guitar. Because, I can do tasks (for me as well as for others) while I listen to music.

[Beery Swine]

For me a waste of time would be doing anything that does not manifest itself in the real physical world in one way or another. Thus I would consider spending hundreds of hours on playing computer games a waste of time.

...do you think video games are non-corporeal or something?

[volk]

...do you think video games are non-corporeal or something?

I'd say videogames is a dull activity. I bet half of the forum is now having strong feelings about me after reading previous sentence. A game is a highly limited universe created by someone else, which means that there is hardly any way of taking your personal character to whole new levels inside a videogame. It's like a sandbox - you can dig holes and move the sand around, but in the long run you are not getting anywhere.

Though I agree that different people have different goals in their lives and that my opinion on this subject is strongly based on my personal values. Because of this I think that no matter how long we discuss this topic, we will not come up with a good definition of what it means to waste time.

[Antisocialite]

Some of the best time spent in my life has been time wasted.

What should the young man on the plane have been doing. Should he have been lifting hand weights so he was stronger? Should he have practiced singing aloud to the music to improve his vocal abilities? Or maybe he was on vacation and didn't feel compelled to do anything but relax. We will never know so we probably shouldn't pass judgement.

If those people live the lives they want to it doesn't really matter one bit if someone else thinks it was a 'waste of time'. It is their life, worry about yourself before you 'waste time' passing judgement on others.

Couldn't've said it better. But I am a P, not a J.





Antisocialite added to this post, 3 minutes and 41 seconds later...

And then?

I don't see how real world manifestation logically leads you to view some activity as being "better" than another.

Exactly. Is he planning on becoming professional guitarist or something?





Antisocialite added to this post, 1 minutes and 6 seconds later...

Isn't that a hedonist? As a nihilist, life wouldn't be about anything. It's all meaningless.

Yeah. So you might as well enjoy yourself. :idea:

[volk]

Exactly. Is he planning on becoming professional guitarist or something?


How about improving ones social skills? Anyone thinks it's a waste of time? Does it matter if you plan on becoming a social engineer or not?

That would be an example of an activity that is certainly not a waste of time under any circumstances, unless of course you were the only one person living on this planet... I'd like to hear anyone who thinks it's a waste of time and why :)

[Antisocialite]

I'd say videogames is a dull activity. I bet half of the forum is now having strong feelings about me after reading previous sentence.

We're all thinking that you don't fully grasp gaming but instead of realizing this and moving on with your life, you have to make the activity seem to be beneath you because you can't get what others get out of it.

[volk]

We're all thinking that you don't fully grasp gaming but instead of realizing this and moving on with your life, you have to make the activity seem to be beneath you because you can't get what others get out of it.

I sure grasp gaming, but from my own perspective. Addictive like porn and just as useless in the long run ;D

[Brutananadilewski]

I'd say videogames is a dull activity. I bet half of the forum is now having strong feelings about me after reading previous sentence. A game is a highly limited universe created by someone else, which means that there is hardly any way of taking your personal character to whole new levels inside a videogame. It's like a sandbox - you can dig holes and move the sand around, but in the long run you are not getting anywhere.

Where is it that you have to be? What's the hurry?

Man, I've got nowhere to be and no hurry to change that, nothing is a waste of time.

[volk]

Lets not talk about gaming so specifically. It was just an example that fell off the top of my head while having a discussion with my coworker about time wasting activities.

Where is it that you have to be? What's the hurry?

Man, I've got nowhere to be and no hurry to change that, nothing is a waste of time.

It has nothing to do with being in a hurry. I think that for me it all boils down to feeling the limits of an activity. Once I feel an activity is limiting in some way, I lose interest in it and want to move on to something that gives me plenty of space for learning and many opportunities to use that newly gained knowledge.

[Bobleplask]

How about improving ones social skills? Anyone thinks it's a waste of time? Does it matter if you plan on becoming a social engineer or not?

That would be an example of an activity that is certainly not a waste of time under any circumstances, unless of course you were the only one person living on this planet... I'd like to hear anyone who thinks it's a waste of time and why :)

I don’t have any strong opinion on the matter of developing social skills being a waste of time or not, but I can always find arguments leading to it being a waste of time.

I guess it all depends on what your goal is. Nerds in general have been known for having less social skills the average person. This is due to spending too much time doing nerdy things instead of socializing. Many scientists are nerds, and one of the reasons they are scientist is because of doing the nerdy things they do. So if their goal is to do science, then it is wise to spend as much time they have doing scientific things. This comes at the cost of having less developed social skills.

It can be argued that if time would permit it then it would be best to be social at the same time as doing science. The counter argument is that if time would permit it then it would be best to do everything we can imagine, having time for everything we wanted.

My personal opinion on the definition of “wasting time” is doing something that has zero meaning to you. “Wasting time” is a personal opinion and it can be anything imaginable, including socializing or developing social skills.

[Undead Bonzi]

Lets not talk about gaming so specifically. It was just an example that fell off the top of my head while having a discussion with my coworker about time wasting activities.



It has nothing to do with being in a hurry. I think that for me it all boils down to feeling the limits of an activity. Once I feel an activity is limiting in some way, I lose interest in it and want to move on to something that gives me plenty of space for learning and many opportunities to use that newly gained knowledge.

The only limits any activity has are the ones you place on it. Be carefull how much you shrink your world or some day you may find it too small to live in.

I know people who dedicate their every waking hour to the pursuit of 'important' things. They also happen to be some of the most miserable people I know....failed marraiges, stress related health problems, careers or school set before all else, few friends, ect ect. Conversely I know people who work poor paying blue collar jobs and who spend all their free time doing useless things like going on vacations, playing cards/video games, listening to music ect and they happen to be some of the happiest/contented people I've ever known.

It is easy to look down on others when they don't match your definition of the ideal, but in that way of thinking there is a failure to understand that there is more than one way to live your life. I could find a use or bennefit for each and every activity that has been listed as a waste of time so far. I could also argue how each and every 'usefull' activity could be a waste of time. It is a matter of perspective.

[NephilimAzrael]

The original topic was Time wasting. There really is no such thing if your alive and are conscious, all good, if your unconscious and dreaming, brilliant.

Worth is nothing but the subjective value (which has already been mentioned) but why not just go ahead and make a big mess and say its worth the time put into it, makes no difference really. So if some of you see time wasted by particular actions, fair enough. Is it not better to think of whether it is the person's energy being wasted? Yet the actions we perform are reinforcing something (also said before) and that is also determined by subjective values.. Overall its a personal perspective.. Like this thread has been both a waste of time and energy in my view, but it has a value. It was amusing to ponder upon the topic.