Do you think that this is childish?

[antisocial one]

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I am asking because I think it is childish.

What are they trying to prove?

That they can march like this and that you can kill 20 of them whit one granade. Also what they are proving is that that can drive tanks across the square in formation BRAVO!!!
Or they want to show that all of them have same weakness.

You may enjoy in tanks your country has but in real war those same tanks end up somewhere im mud or minefield.

I am sure that I could take a uniform and march like this but that does not make me a skilled soldier.

Also that moral you get in occasions like this is actually preventing army form comprehending that they are losing war against guerilla warfare type of enemy.

So, if you ask me the entire thing is actually pure political propaganda whit no "real" purpose


So, do others INTJ think that military march is stupid idea no matter which country is doing the show.

[Marcus]

What are they trying to prove?

That they can do things like this:
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[antisocial one]

You are right. But my point is that they don't need parade to be able to do that.

[blueback]

So, if you ask me the entire thing is actually pure political propaganda whit no "real" purpose


So, do others INTJ think that military march is stupid idea no matter which country is doing the show.

Well, I'm actually in the military. You're right, parades are propaganda, but that doesn't mean that propaganda has no "real" purpose. Propaganda is very practical.

You claim that marching is stupid, but have you ever done it? Let me try to put it this way. When was the last time you saw thousands of people all doing exactly the same thing at exactly the same time? A parade is an obvious way of proving that a group is disciplined. No one wants to be in a parade, but they are all there, which means they might all show up to a war too. The discipline it takes to pull off a military parade is directly related to the professionalism it takes to be in a modern military.

Think about it for a minute. Would you rather see a military force of that size being disciplined and kept in line or would you rather never see them and never know what they're up to with all those tanks?

[Homini Lupus]

I guess it is also a way to show how people's work/taxpayer's money etc. are spent. Armies require a lot of effort to the peoples and that's a way to show the common people what they are doing.

BTW, the internationale on the second video was really sadistic/sarcastic!

[Marcus]

BTW, the internationale on the second video was really sadistic/sarcastic!

That's the correct historical interpretation of it in Eastern Europe.

[Homini Lupus]

I know. I studied east european histiry at the university. If I were socialsit I would probably have given it up just by reading russian history.

[Marcus]

I know. I studied east european histiry at the university. If I were socialsit I would probably have given it up just by reading russian history.

The Scandinavian form of socialism was a bit different.

[Saint]

Blueback is right. Fanfare has always had useful purposes. What's childish about it?

[Liason]

I don't think its childish. Just not as useful as just about anything else they could be doing instead of it tho. It's wasteful comparatively speaking.

[blueback]

It's wasetful to have your military occasionally demonstrate both its size, strength and discipline at the same time? Those are the things that make a military. What good would a military be if it wasn't large, powerful and in-charge? You don't even have to serve in the military to understand that those things are important.

[foroneonly]

Childish.

I guess that is one way to look at decades of oppresive communist rule. However, I suppose they are trying to prove their power which to the citizens of the country is very real. These sort of demonstrations seem pointless, but I would imagine they are effective. I wouldn't want to mess with this army.

[kevintr]

The side with the fancyiest uniforms looses.

Murphy's laws of war

[blueback]

A soldier who is ready to pass an inspection isn't ready to pass a war.

[Ool]

[What are they trying to prove?

That they can march like this and that you can kill 20 of them whit one granade.

Maybe that, even though you can kill twenty of them with one grenade, there will still be 2,000 more behind them who can eventually kill you, with their bare hands if they must.

The impressive quality of the Russia is its size, both geographically and in population. You occupy huge swathes of it and still there is enough land left for a resistance to form and drive the occupiers out. You could kill millions upon millions of them (whether you were an invader or their ruler) and still there were enough people left to survive you and to repopulate the country as if nothing had happened…

[redbaren]

Its not childish, Its just used to show the people, and country's that there ready to attack any one that prevails so do not mess with them. Another reason is instill attention to detail you must have on the battle field. For example, if a army was just walking around clue less of what they were doing how intimidating would that be? But if they were doing what they were doing in that video like I said it shows people that they can fight.

[thod]

A parade is an obvious way of proving that a group is disciplined.

So a troop of majorettes is disciplined?

Discipline means staying put with parts of your buddies littering the ground around you. Learning to overcome the fear when everything is telling you to run and save yourself. You have to become a fatalist, to absolutely know that if it is your time, you will die, if it isn't you wont. Only then can you conquer the fear.

These painted soldier boys have not learned that lesson yet. They have not been tested. In all the exercises, they knew they would not die.

[konec]

So a troop of majorettes is disciplined?

Discipline means staying put with parts of your buddies littering the ground around you. Learning to overcome the fear when everything is telling you to run and save yourself. You have to become a fatalist, to absolutely know that if it is your time, you will die, if it isn't you wont. Only then can you conquer the fear.

These painted soldier boys have not learned that lesson yet. They have not been tested. In all the exercises, they knew they would not die.

I heard they're doing that next year...

[blueback]

Thod, I know you like to throw in off-the-wall comments, but usually you do a better job of making sure they are actually relevant.

Discipline: Training expected to produce a specific character or pattern of behavior, especially training that produces moral or mental improvement

It is possible to teach discipline in all sorts of different ways. All discipline is good discipline in the sense that it makes learning further discipline easier. What you are talking about is courage, which is different.

In fact, as I understand it, discipline is far more effective a way for professional soldiers to deal with the horror of warfare than is courage. If a person NEEDS courage to deal with warfare then their courage can fail them and leave them a shivering wreck. If a person, on the other hand, has drilled for so long that all the actions they need to perform are as much a part of them as their body then they can detach from the horror of the job. A professional soldier needs to treat warfare like work, not like something exciting, but like something that just needs to get done.

And yes, anyone can demonstrate discipline at any time doing anything. A troop of dancers is a good example. It requires a lot of discipline to have them all doing exactly what they are supposed to be doing, and to have them be able to repeat it over and over again each night exactly the same way.

[Ool]

In fact, as I understand it, discipline is far more effective a way for professional soldiers to deal with the horror of warfare than is courage. If a person NEEDS courage to deal with warfare then their courage can fail them and leave them a shivering wreck. If a person, on the other hand, has drilled for so long that all the actions they need to perform are as much a part of them as their body then they can detach from the horror of the job. A professional soldier needs to treat warfare like work, not like something exciting, but like something that just needs to get done.

And then they can always break down and suffer from PTSD later at home, when life isn’t as structured and no one tells them what to do any more…

[blueback]

Exactly. It's just like adrenaline. Adrenaline always causes the shakes when it wears off; it's just an inevitable result of the chemical reaction. But it is better to suffer the shakes AFTER you've outrun the lion than while the lion is bearing down on you.

It is better for a soldier to suffer mentally and become unable to perform AFTER he's gotten the war out of the way than during the war. So, if what it takes to get him to perform properly during war causes him to suffer after the war, that is better than the alternative.

[bucolic_]

So, if you ask me the entire thing is actually pure political propaganda whit no "real" purpose


So, do others INTJ think that military march is stupid idea no matter which country is doing the show.

It's propaganda, it has a very 'real' purpose.

[Nexus]

I don't think it's childish at all. In fact, I sort of admire it. It'd have been breathtaking to have been there in person. The Soviet Union committed countless atrocities, but a parade like this is an empowering sight to see for many people including myself. It doesn't make me like the Soviet Union any more, but it's a beautiful sight to see. Nationalism was like an art to the Soviet Union, and they were very good at it.

[Valiyn]

Wars are fought entirely for political reasons.

Weither the policy is greed and hatred, or a policy of freedom...it's all political. Clauswitz even states it directly in the first book of "On War". It's something that you learn time and time again at Westpoint and Sandhurst, it's the whole reason why wars are fought.

If wars are entirely political, why not pratice political strengthening with the army? The population is shown how mighty their army is, how well protected they are, and therefore, they have more faith in their government's ability. It's also a moral boost durring times of war, it's a strong way of showing the population you are winning but having such overwhelming force, you don't need all of it at the battlefield. A slight increase in this, is around a 2%--5% increase in recruitment you wouldn't have in wartime. A veteran unit parading will raise the moral for that unit, it shows them they have the support of their home. That is essential in warfare. It's also called the 'Way' in Sun Tzu's art of war. A fresh and new unit gets a similar bonus from experiencing that. They also see it as a mass farewell to their friends and family, getting to show off their honor and how mighty they know are. In terms of review, it allows the generals to quickly asses the disapline and skill of their army. This again is essentials. You have to know what your capable of, and this allows a quick glance to show how well cordinated they are as a unit. Not individual soldiers fighting from the same starting point, you want a unit fighting togeather.

[Elfrun]

It’s symbolic that’s all, shows strength in unity or some such crap and yes there is a big propaganda component but like blueback has explained that doesn’t equate to childish.

Personally parades, marches etc were my least favourite part of my training but they served a purpose, everyone had a common aim and quite literally worked together.

[MindOverMatter]

The purpose of the parades as i see them are:
1.flaunt their military power
2.boost the nations ego

The same thing happens in the USA with air shows involving fighter jets

[Tocsin]

Testosterone truly does strange things to the brains of male primates. When you get right down to it, there is not much difference between a military parade, professional wrestling, a football team charging onto the field, or a gorilla in the mist, thumping its chest and charging an opponent to intimidate it into submission.

If you want to admire parades and displays of military might, you should at least be honest enough to acknowledge the true masters of martial pageantry:

U-tube - Nazi Torchlight Parade (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)

U-tube - German Rearmament and Parade (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)

If you have a brain, you might want to consider the well known historical results of martial glorification in the cases of both Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union.

You might want to consider the social and political implications of present day North Korea, and its own massive displays of statist unity and martial strength as well.

Even the most brutally repressive and totalitarian of regimes marches its soldiers domestically under the banners of defending freedom and the homeland.

Joy Division - They Walked In Line (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)

So; are military displays of strength and power childish? No. Alarming? Yes.

[Sir Paul]

The side with the fancyiest uniforms looses.

Murphy's laws of war

Now this made me laugh. Murphy's Law would be more inclined to say "The side with the most confidence will screw up in every way imaginable". Besides I think every military has awfully fancy formal uniforms.

The purpose of the parades as i see them are:
1.flaunt their military power
2.boost the nations ego

The same thing happens in the USA with air shows involving fighter jets


You better believe it. On top of such shows there are... sports. Yes, thats right. The population of many, if not most to all, non militaristic countries have absolutely massive sporting events. Such events, particularly on the international arena, are not just to see who has the most physically skilled people, but also to provoke a sense of national pride. Military parades work in the same way, they have the same effect. An effect which can only be described by, "YEAH WE FREAKING RULE". Thus the claim that such parades are childish, begs the question as to whether all events that are intended to promote a sense of national pride are that way inclined. The answer of course is no! None of these events are even remotely childish, they have specific goals in mind and, as sure as radioactive decay, they work.

[zibber]

You might want to consider the social and political implications of present day North Korea, and its own massive displays of statist unity and martial strength as well.

Might I suggest America's missile "shield" in Poland?