Advice on relationship with an INTJ?

[aymier]

Hello. I'm sorry for intruding on this forum to ask for advice, but I would really appreciate some insight.

I am an INTP and I've been dating an INTJ for almost a year. I'm living with him this summer because I couldn't get my own apartment until August. From the start it was supposed to be temporary, but I love staying with him and don't want it to end. I feel like he is someone I could spend the rest of my life with. When I brought up the idea of us moving in together for good, he turned it down for anytime in the foreseeable future. He said that he is committed to me, but he just prefers to live alone. Then he said that we'll have plenty of time to live together when we're older. (I'm 23, he's 24) I know him well enough to know that nothing I do or say will convince him to change his mind. I can live with that as long as it would happen sometime down the road. This is getting too long. I guess my question is, do you think that by "not in the foreseeable future" he really means "never" or that he just isn't ready to 'settle down' yet, but would want to sometime later?

Additional information that may be pertinent:
He lived with his last girlfriend before me for awhile. He says that has nothing to do with why he doesn't want to live with me now.





aymier added to this post, 46 minutes and 10 seconds later...

This makes me think of a more general question. How much personal living space do you like to have?

Personally, I prefer to have at least one room to myself, but in a house or apartment with one or two other people (as long as those people don't expect me to spend all my time with them). My boyfriend would ideally like to move out to somewhere like Walden Pond. I grew up in a relatively large household and my boyfriend only has one brother. I wonder if that has any correlation to preferred living situation.

[burazekun]

*grumbles* I cant say "how much" he needs. But I can say that I prefere to live allone. I moved in with some friends out of concern for their well being and the well being of their kids. But this is a situation I told them, that would be limited and may only last a year at most.

I like my freedoms and independance, I like to have time to think for myself. If I ever had my own women, my concern would be, and is. "Would I get enough of this time? And if I get this time, would I have enough for them?" Concerned on hurting someone I would love, hurts me. That is not my intention.

So when he says this, I think he may be genuine. He wants his time, his space, but he is commited to you. Only way to make it work is to make a plan and base your needs and his together.

And for your knowledge, I know married couples who own seperate houses and appartments and have been together for 10-30 years. I also know couples who sleep in different rooms.

[JoeyDude]

Hmm, I can't help but raise a red flag with him not wanting to live together. I'm not a mind reader and I don't know this guy very well. What I would do is have a serious talk with him on why he doesn't want to live together even though he did with his last girlfriend AND you had been living together temporarily? Don't settle for "just because".

I think he is just trying to let you down easy and sometime in the future is more like never. I know that if I was living with a girlfriend even temporarily and she wanted to live together I'd be up for it as long as I loved her. But if I wasn't feeling right I'd probably not go for living together.

[Tenacious B]

I can certainly relate. I have basically lived on my own since 16 (parents traveled for jobs etc), so I'm used to having my own space and like it.

He might be hesitant about pushing the relationship too fast, or maybe he wants to wait until marriage or until you two can find a better place.

A friend of mine and his now wife were engaged for a year before marriage after being together (basically married, their engagement was only a matter of time) for years and did not live together until they both graduated and got married. He didn't want to just move in together, he wanted to do it "right": graduate, get a job, get married, and buy a house.

[Uytuun]

Living together is a very complicated matter for an INTJ (at least it would be for me). It's autonomy, independence, personal space, personal time, a safe place away from the world...I can imagine that it's quite threatening for him to all of a sudden extend the living together thing to forever. You're in and you all of a sudden want to stay. I would let him think it through and perhaps move out again...he might miss you. ;) Or perhaps he just doesn't want to share his living space with anyone ever. That is possible.

As a fellow INTx you're probably very non-intrusive and a good match to live together, though.

This makes me think of a more general question. How much personal living space do you like to have?

Personally, I prefer to have at least one room to myself, but in a house or apartment with one or two other people (as long as those people don't expect me to spend all my time with them).

It would be the same for me.

[wolf]

It's hard to say - INTJs vary greatly in implementation. We're similar in thought patterns and come to similar conclusions, but outside of that we're very different...

Personally, I'd probably go for it, but only if there was enough space to devote to another person, plus that person was completely introverted like me. Basically, they must be quiet/unobtrusive and have a place they can go so we can both be alone. If the other person creates a din, adds allergens to the environment, is too intrusive, doesn't have a private space, is too extroverted, or otherwise incompatible, I wouldn't want them about.

That said, INTPs (particularly the females, and especially those that are 100% introverted like me) tend to be so quiet that you hardly realize they exist. If they have their own room, it's very close to being alone.

Now, if his past experience was with a girl that wasn't like this, I could see why he doesn't want to go there again.

So-far, I'd say I distinctly prefer living alone. I could not deal with a roommate. If I could deal with a partner is unknown, though it would probably be much easier than a roommate.

[Seppuku Savant]

I prefer as much personal space as possible. I need to be alone to recharge. If someone is living with me, or even seeing me too often, I get agitated. Living arrangement is one of the main reasons I never want to marry. I enjoy my freedom, on every level.

If he wants to wait, then wait. If your really meant to date for a long time, it will happen. The few INTJs I've known lived with a partner in the past, after they broke up with them, they didn't want to have another person live with them again. It's because of all the problems that can arise when living with another human. They wanted to avoid making the same mistake twice.

[blueback]

I have to agree with most of the people here that he probably values his privacy too much to want a permanent roommate.

As INTJs we tend to put ourselves first. We don't value anyone's opinion until our opinion is that their opinion is valuable. We basically don't do anything unless we think it is worthwhile. That means that the thing we own, expecially our private space, is not to be violated. If we allow someone into our private space they will begin to change it whether they intend to or not. We will have to compromise with them.

INTJs, especially young ones, don't want to compromise. We will compromise once we have firmly established, in our own minds, exactly what is important and what isn't. We don't like making mistakes so will will avoid things that are probable mistakes until we can analyze them clearly. As a young INTJ he probably has an intuition that agreeing to live together indefinitely will cause more problems than it will solve. He will probably have a hard time explaining his conclusion becuase he intuited it. However, we trust our intuition. As far as we are concerned our intuition is a better guide than someone else's well reasoned arguments.

If he's not ready to agree to live with you then you are probably in the "valued" category in his mind. You bring a net positive into his life but as soon as it becomes a net negative he will drop you. He hasn't decided that he wants you around forever yet. Don't be too discouraged,though. That is an impossibly high standard. He is probably still debating with himself over whether or not he is capable of wanting you to be around forever.

I'm an INTJ and I know that I've never felt the level of love that people use to describe their spouses. Without that emotional attachment I'm not sure if I could ever overcome my self-love enough to compromise with a permanent mate. We don't need other people to the same degree that other types do. Self-satisfaction is enough to get us through long periods of not meetin anyone who lives up to our expectations.

I hope everything works out well. However, if you don't meet his standards he will not care how well he meets yours. INTJs don't care much about their own feelings so they care even less about the feelings of others, especially those they aren't willing to compromise with.

[normanajn]

In looking at your INTJ in this respect, remember a few things.

His need for privacy is based in his introverted nature, and in combination with his intuitive nature will lead to the basis for his need of quite introspection. In this respect he's just like you. Where he may differ is in the strength of that "I" and that "N", the stronger both are the more he will have a natural need to go off into his cave, close his eyes, listen to his music and be introspective.

The good news is, his statements are very indicative of an INTJ. When he says "Not now", he honestly means just that. He means "At the present time I have decided that I need more study before I can come to a definitive conclusion." And for an INTJ this is completely normal. When we are unsure, our nature is to study. It is the manifestation of his "J" trait, and that is where you both differ. The "J" in this case is telling him "Please go study the situation" while your "P" is saying "I have perceived that we are working well together, so let's continue".

What will happen is that after he has studied the situation (probably to death as we INTJs are want to do) he will come back with a conclusion. In all likelihood it will be something to the effect of "I have studied that we are working well together, so let's continue"

The point here is that the way we learn is slightly different, and we have to be allowed to follow that process. The other thing to note, is that during his "studies" he will also probably try some experimentation (again it is what we do), and this can take the form (in the case of learning to live with someone) of him varying his sleep patterns, altering when he takes his alone time, taking up strange mini-hobbies, leaving the house at different times, and whole hosts of other "odd" behaviors. The truth is they aren't actually odd to him, rather he is experimenting with this new system to try and understand it.

The best advice is of course "Let him do his thing." He's an INTJ and you're an INTP, you're quite compatible but he needs his time to simply figure that out. If you want to help him, literally say things like "I think it would be interesting to experiment with....." Those key words "interesting" and "experiment" are like crack to an INTJ. Almost anything you put after that he will have an interest in playing with. At the same time, let him come to his own judgements, even if you reach your conclusions fasters (again that's just the difference in "P" types and "J" types at work).

Try it, chances are it will work just fine.

[burazekun]

In looking at your INTJ in this respect, remember a few things.

His need for privacy is based in his introverted nature, and in combination with his intuitive nature will lead to the basis for his need of quite introspection. In this respect he's just like you. Where he may differ is in the strength of that "I" and that "N", the stronger both are the more he will have a natural need to go off into his cave, close his eyes, listen to his music and be introspective.

The good news is, his statements are very indicative of an INTJ. When he says "Not now", he honestly means just that. He means "At the present time I have decided that I need more study before I can come to a definitive conclusion." And for an INTJ this is completely normal. When we are unsure, our nature is to study. It is the manifestation of his "J" trait, and that is where you both differ. The "J" in this case is telling him "Please go study the situation" while your "P" is saying "I have perceived that we are working well together, so let's continue".

What will happen is that after he has studied the situation (probably to death as we INTJs are want to do) he will come back with a conclusion. In all likelihood it will be something to the effect of "I have studied that we are working well together, so let's continue"

The point here is that the way we learn is slightly different, and we have to be allowed to follow that process. The other thing to note, is that during his "studies" he will also probably try some experimentation (again it is what we do), and this can take the form (in the case of learning to live with someone) of him varying his sleep patterns, altering when he takes his alone time, taking up strange mini-hobbies, leaving the house at different times, and whole hosts of other "odd" behaviors. The truth is they aren't actually odd to him, rather he is experimenting with this new system to try and understand it.

The best advice is of course "Let him do his thing." He's an INTJ and you're an INTP, you're quite compatible but he needs his time to simply figure that out. If you want to help him, literally say things like "I think it would be interesting to experiment with....." Those key words "interesting" and "experiment" are like crack to an INTJ. Almost anything you put after that he will have an interest in playing with. At the same time, let him come to his own judgements, even if you reach your conclusions fasters (again that's just the difference in "P" types and "J" types at work).

Try it, chances are it will work just fine.

I like the advice presented in this quote. However, I still want to through out the idea of making a plan.

Presenting a plan. At least to me. Makes me tear the idea apart and reassemble it in multiple fasions. If I find it logical, if I find it works, if I find it flexable to adaptation in the future, I will likely accept the investment.

I live by the quote "What I preceive is the truth till the day I preceive the truth as a lie." Now that's a plan for adaptation. He may be concerned about the imediate problem of his space, or a number of other options. So you have to find out what it is that worries him about having you stay with him. He knows what it is, and if he's anything like me, he's poking at those worries, those concerns, formulating contingency plans, adapting his mentality in preperation for any event that might spark from this. So he should have the information you need to work out an idea on your side as well.

Be straight and to the point, "Is there a reason you dont see my staying here forseeable, is there something that worries you." And as an introvert, he may say "no, nothing" or something to the effect, where then you may have to pull the psycological pry bar out and continue off with, "I would like to see this work out, I would like to be with you, and I can offer several ideas to help make this work." Of course make sure you have ideas, also make sure he can take appart your conversation, disassemble it and not be offended.

If he is a INTJ he is not stuborn, he just needs insentive to change his opinion with alternatives, with options, or facts.

[Bobleplask]

Some people need a room for themselves. I think a small town for myself would be quite nice. :)

[mlanders]

Men don't send mixed signals. Even INTJs. If he doesn't want to live together, he doesn't want to live together. He also doesn't want to hurt your feelings.

Privacy is a very big issue. I love my husband, but sometimes I wish we had separate houses. Separate vacations would also be nice.

[Jakalwarrior]

Ok... I must be a broke ass INTJ. I require zero personal space, only a personal computer and quiet. I also require no privacy except for the bathroom. Must be the weak J? (only 10-25%).

Your best bet if you want him to not mind you being around is to sometimes be there but completely leave him alone for hours on end when he is doing something like watching TV or playing on the computer. Not messing with his stuff, not talking to him, etc... just chilling and doing your own thing. He will learn that he can have his "me" time even while you are there.

It may also be that he is being realistic. Most relationships don't last and he may not want to be too tangled or too invested. He probably hates drama, conflict, and not being able to easily get away. Especially if the last relationship had any of that.

[zibber]

Hmm, I can't help but raise a red flag with him not wanting to live together. I'm not a mind reader and I don't know this guy very well. What I would do is have a serious talk with him on why he doesn't want to live together even though he did with his last girlfriend AND you had been living together temporarily? Don't settle for "just because".

I think pressing the guy will certainly lead to a better understanding of his reasons (which may very well include his past experience after all), but may also lead to some blunt, easily misinterpreted (honest!) statements.

ps. aymier, I like how you came here for advice! If my girl did that and I'd find out, I'd feel slightly violated but eventually very appreciative of her attempt to gain a better understanding.