ESTP - INTJ relationship

[bricklayer]

I have a somewhat new relationship with an ESTP and want to make the most of it. What do you think - is it possible to make it last? I've notice he will get antsy or bored at times. What can be done to work around our differences? I know we're not very compatable by nature . . .

[Uytuun]

My brother is ESTP and I have to say we get along splendidly now that he has developed some more Ti (and I have developed some more as well, of course). We have very good conversations and he's a great entertainer. I think them getting bored with people is inevitable, but if you leave them alone for a while, they'll return. This shouldn't be a problem for INTJs as we can have the same happening to us. They can be very straightforward, but then again, so can INTJs and I find that we both find it refreshing to be able to say "I'm bored with you, go away etc." without there being any hard feelings. Note however that they are more sensitive than we are and need a lot more affirmation from other people (they don't feel particularly understood by society, but seem to require it anyhow). They self-doubt a lot more (think INTP) and are much more concerned with their own existential problematic (read: themselves :p) and I think talking about that is very important to them and something they don't often get the opportunity to do. In general, my ESTP bro reminds me a lot of my INTP friend...as opposed to INTxs my bro is awesome with people in that he has this natural charm that can get them to do everything for him (especially women), but deep down, I don't think that's what he's looking for at all.

One piece of advice: you need to be consistent...they have certain principles and ideals and they are very logical and binary in their thinking due to Ti. They are allergic to hypocrisy and if someone lets them down even a little bit, they will proclaim them entirely incompatible with their inside ideals...this may be why they fail to have any real friends. However, my bro is very loyal to me and the other members of my family and finds the flitting from friend to friend to be rather problematic himself.

If you communicate the way in which you function and explain it to them logically, they should get it and it might prevent a lot of problems...they might also find it refreshing to see the world from a less rigid (Ni), but still rationally explainable perspective.

As an INTJ, you will be able to look through their charms and bullshitting abilities and I think they like that a lot...they aren't used to not getting what they want or people calling them out on their (sometimes very egocentric) behaviour and it's good for them to be challenged from time to time. :p Just be yourself and don't panic about him getting bored.

I would say that there is definitely potential so long as you're not excessively J and are willing to understand them and appreciate them for what they are. As ESTPs they often just don't fit the societal mould (school, authority in general, not managing to finish things etc.) and probably aren't the most successful of types, which must not be easy for them considering that they do have that need for affirmation.

Hope this helps.

[Mafiaangel180]

The first ESTP who pops into my head is Louie DePalma from Taxi. I think he's a good example. From personal experience, they tend to be smart, don't take crap, can be manipulative, and are really good at games. They are really hard to get into a relationship with because they live day to day and are so wrapped up in themselves. --So getting together might be hard. --Which you might like. But it might make things hard to progress. And the ones I've known had problems with promiscuity. But these things might not be a problem for you. Good luck!

[Saint]

I have a somewhat new relationship with an ESTP and want to make the most of it. What do you think - is it possible to make it last? I've notice he will get antsy or bored at times. What can be done to work around our differences? I know we're not very compatable by nature . . .

If that's all the information you have for worrying:

Calm down. People are still people, even with little letters. Anyone can love anyone.

[bricklayer]

If that's all the information you have for worrying:

Calm down. People are still people, even with little letters. Anyone can love anyone.

I thank you for your words, this is true. However my brain usually acts like a computer and it believes that anything can be put into a formula. The accuracy of MBTI amazes me. But yes, perhaps I put too much weight on them.
Once again I have been secretive and have not revealed much needed information. Forgive me, it's a nasty habit. Although I will admit it is one I intend to keep. So still without any percise details there is a reason I was concerned enough about this relationship that I chose to talk about it on this forum (which is ever so helpful). I have to make sure this relationship stays in tact or else it's my head, I am the one who got myself into this. . .

[Saint]

Fair enough. I'm sure there's more to it than what you've said here, and of course nobody can blame you for hiding details. Your life is your own, and perhaps more importantly, how you feel is patently yours. Don't disregard that no matter what the information says.

Good luck.

[sam988]

I think of Charlie Harper from Two and a Half Men. The classic ESTP!


Darn ESTPs are hard to get in a relationship with... they are womanizers and there's going to be competition sooner or later. But i hope you do a good job. It's going to take effort.

[Antares]

My friend is an ESTx and guess what? We entertain each other famously. There's nothing inherently incompatible between the two types.

[wolf]

Darn ESTPs are hard to get in a relationship with... they are womanizers and there's going to be competition sooner or later. But i hope you do a good job. It's going to take effort.
They're also conmen and criminals. ESTPs are bad news, and I highly recommend learning how to identify and avoid them.

My father is one, I should know.

[sam988]

They're also conmen and criminals. ESTPs are bad news, and I highly recommend learning how to identify and avoid them.

My father is one, I should know.

Yes.. an interesting piece, they are.

[Jenny Penny]

My boyfriend is ESTP. He is a reasonably smart guy and incredibly witty. We have some glaring inconsistencies, which I'm afraid are going to eventually cause the relationship to hit the skids...

He comes off as paranoid that others are out to get him and institutions are trying to control him.

He will screw himself over to make a point (ex: not paying a bill because he felt it was unfair even though it was not, and screwing up his credit as a result)

Drinking and smoking too much (overdoing anything that he latches onto)

Not being intellectually motivated although seeming to respect that motivation in myself. (He says it is "sexy" that I like to read.)

Trying to hurt the other in arguments rather than wanting to resolve the problem

Not tactful at all and can say hurtful, thoughtless things

Makes WAY too many generalizations about almost everything

Is selfish and immature at times

Can have very illogical beliefs and certainties, even though evidence exists to prove them otherwise. My ESTP will not take any kind of medication because he thinks these are harmful, but he drinks and smokes because those are 'natural'.



Anyway, this is just my experience with an ESTP. It would also definitely make a difference if your ESTP is healthier than mine. Mine is probably average in mental health.

There are also some pros to being with him. He helps me lighten up tremendously and this is important to me. I laugh a lot when with him. We can be so silly when we are together and I don't feel this kind of comfort level around most people. I do know that we are going to break up eventually, due to our extreme differences in lifestyles and personality.

[Mafiaangel180]

My boyfriend is ESTP. He is a reasonably smart guy and incredibly witty. We have some glaring inconsistencies, which I'm afraid are going to eventually cause the relationship to hit the skids...

He comes off as paranoid that others are out to get him and institutions are trying to control him.

He will screw himself over to make a point (ex: not paying a bill because he felt it was unfair even though it was not, and screwing up his credit as a result)

Drinking and smoking too much (overdoing anything that he latches onto)

Not being intellectually motivated although seeming to respect that motivation in myself. (He says it is "sexy" that I like to read.)

Trying to hurt the other in arguments rather than wanting to resolve the problem

Not tactful at all and can say hurtful, thoughtless things

Makes WAY too many generalizations about almost everything

Is selfish and immature at times

Can have very illogical beliefs and certainties, even though evidence exists to prove them otherwise. My ESTP will not take any kind of medication because he thinks these are harmful, but he drinks and smokes because those are 'natural'.



Anyway, this is just my experience with an ESTP. It would also definitely make a difference if your ESTP is healthier than mine. Mine is probably average in mental health.

There are also some pros to being with him. He helps me lighten up tremendously and this is important to me. I laugh a lot when with him. We can be so silly when we are together and I don't feel this kind of comfort level around most people. I do know that we are going to break up eventually, due to our extreme differences in lifestyles and personality.


Haa!! This sounds like my dad. Especially the part about not doing something to prove a point but only hurting himself in the end. On the plus side, I really did learn to stand up for myself when it came to the system though. So that whole "don't take crap" was a good trait I think.

[Nikita]

Can have very illogical beliefs and certainties, even though evidence exists to prove them otherwise. My ESTP will not take any kind of medication because he thinks these are harmful, but he drinks and smokes because those are 'natural'.

Illogical is right. Alcohol and cigarettes are about as natural as pills. Everything actually comes from nature b/c all raw materials are natural...they're just manipulated by men. If alcohol were "natural" it wouldn't need to be "made," and unless his cigarettes involve literally rolling up a tobacco leaf they are not natural. Not to mention the tar, ammonia *cough* urine *cough*, and whatever else is added to them to make them exceedingly "unnatural." I'm talking to at you, not to you. I know you know this stuff already.

[Ace1337]

ESTPs are selfish. I have an ESTP friend who I've known for 6-7 years and while it's always fun to hang out and talk to him, I've noticed he is using me. Not in the real sense of the word but using me for small things. They live day by day and have absolutely no plans for the future. He's not using just me, but everybody who lets him. What I regret most about him is that he has such potential that will get squandered because of his day by day down to earth personality. He is also lazy and takes crap from his father only to have a roof over his head and food every day. Instead he could find a job or go to school, and become independent but he'll always put fun and pleasure before principles and independence.

[ESTP]

I'm involved with an INJT at the moment...and you may have read it in another post. Here's my perspective on our interactions and what I'd like to see in order to be "assured" for a lack of a better word.

DO:
-i like being called out on my bs. I know I am a master manipulator, and when someone can see it, call it out, and challange that, or overall not let me get away with it, I see it as an admirable quality because it shows that I won't be able to use them and they can hold their own. Sounds messed up, but people who don't let you walk over them have a strong character and I admire that in them. My experience with most people is that they cannot see it, because I do it in a very subtle sense (its not obvious to most), and those that do see it are generally grade A in my books.

-call me when you say you will If I care about you, when you say you will do something, I will look forward to it. Generally, if you say "Ill call you" it's a free for all, whoever calls who first sorta deal. But, if you say "ill call you two days from now at noon" you best believe that two days from now at noon i'll be expecting that call. If it doesn't come...I will take it as you not thinking that I'm worth the effort/thought/consideration and I'll take it as a personal blow (with the exception of circumstance...if it doesn't happen and there's a legit reason however big or small it's different story, but you will have to explain) It comes down to rationalizing why you let me down.

-show possesiveness in a sense. Not in the sense of "I own you" but more along the lines of, if we are out and about in public, stand closer to me than you would to most people (be present in my personal space). If I don't take a step away from you, or if I lean into you it's a go. That's because for the most part, I don't like people in my personal zone. I get a little rigit when people get into my personal zone. I'm territorial, so if I let you into my "territory" then it's an extremely good sign. It shows I have a trust in your thought process and behaviours, I'm allowing the world to see that I respect you enough to consider you on a level the same or similar to mine. It sounds harsh, but ESTPs think we are the s**t, so it's a big compliment for us to let other ppl in like that.

-show concern for my mental well being. If you show concern through logic and rational, and try to help me solve problems on that level it's way better than trying to mask it up with emotional bs. For me, reason is primary emotion is secondary. If you don't satisy the "why" then there's no point in the "how" for me because it will come naturally. It's hard for me to understand emotional motivation, but very easy to understand logical reason behind situations/actions.

-be straight up. Do not leave me too long to try pry something out of you, the sooner you say it, the better it will be. If I try to figure you out for too long, I will think it's pointless and too much effort and I'll walk away because to me it'll seem like you don't want to let me in. I like being told things, instead of being left to assume them. I will generally assume the worst, because I think most people are out to get me. So, the sooner you up front with me in plain language, the better.


Dont:
-criticize other people on physical appearance. If ESTPs have insecurities, it's almost always with their looks, rather then their mental abilities. We are aware of the phsyical, and base a lot of close interactions (usually significant other) on physical closeness/physical acceptance. I'm super aware of phsyical standards, and I know my shortfalls, so if someone voices a physical dislike of a particular characteristic which I think I have I won't tell you "hey buddy stop it" instead, I will think you see that same flaw in me and it will make me more insecure and aware of it. Even if you don't mean it, or even if you don't see the same in me...I will still be aware of that for a long time and will think you're criticizing me indirectly. Sadly, it can come down to a make it/ break it for me. Usually break it.

-expose facts about me to people, which I consider super private (no matter how small). If I let you in on something, and tell you "most people don't know this, but..." it means, I'm telling you because I'm letting you in the most intimate way I consider and I don't want others to know this about me except you. I'm letting you in on my core, and for you to expose that is betrayl in my books, even if it's a positive thing...it's still betrayl of turst.

-do not betray my trust. That's #1. You do it once, that's it. If I manage to still hang around you, or come around from time to time...to redeem yourself will take decades in my books...probably never. This one is not up for debate or discussion. I do not forgive, I do not forget where trust is involved.

I think those are key points, if you want an ESTP to hang around. Also, a good indicator of a deep care for someone is, if I show you attention, closeness (physical and mental) and intimacy, followed by withdrawl (but not for too long) it's a good indicator that I'm hooked. I tend to withdraw from someone when I find I have developed some emotion for them. It scares me because I realize I've shown them my voulnerable side. ESTPs don't like to be voulnerable, and will try to avoid it as much as possible. When someone can show me that its OK to be voulnerable, and they DO NOT take advantage of it (on the slightest degree even, because we are that messed up) instead they nurture and procted that voulnerablility from everyone but themselves...you're golden.





ESTP added to this post, 4 minutes and 51 seconds later...

I'm involved with an INJT at the moment...and you may have read it in another post. Here's my perspective on our interactions and what I'd like to see in order to be "assured" for a lack of a better word.


I have to reiterate, that with this INTJ, all of these that I mentioned he does and doesn't do, and I think that's why I like him so much. In my books, this INTJ is one of a kind, and so far has managed to do everything right with respect to what I've mentioned.

He does these things right even if it takes him outside of his comfort zone, and I base these do's and dont's on that.

[Zilal]

I was with a very smart, mature ESTP for a long time. He wasn't selfish or manipulative; he was a very decent human being. But he was very different from me in some ways.

He didn't seem too gung-ho about the idea of commitment. I think he would love to be married again to the right woman, honestly, but he seemed to want to *feel* as though he was free at all times.

He pretty consistently refused to put out effort on his own behalf. If he got home from a restaurant, looked at his receipt, and found he was overcharged $30, he wouldn't bother to drive back and try to get it fixed.

He wasn't big on metaphysical conversations. He did not do introspection. He didn't think about himself. Crazy. I think about myself all the damn time.

He got angry very differently from me. It was like a thunderstorm... it'd come up all of a sudden, there'd be lightning, then it'd blow over. There was no talking with him in the middle of it. Or afterward, for that matter. For him it was already over, he'd moved on.

He and I were very compatible intellectually, but I think I would have wanted someone who shared my ideas about commitment. And who could have metaphysical conversations.

[Anderson]

They're also conmen and criminals. ESTPs are bad news, and I highly recommend learning how to identify and avoid them.

My father is one, I should know.

I doubt they are as successful as conmen and criminals as INTJs.;)

[ESTP]

Tell you what straight up. If this ESTP likes/loves you (or whatever their perception of love is) it will make them sick and unable to think of much else.

If that is the case, you probably will have a short window of opertunity to make it clear to them, otherwise they will probably seek out something/someone meaningless to try and destroy what you have built up. If you don't express it to them, they will seek it out by hurting you in some way, to see a reaction. If they feel the same in return (positive) they will for a breif moment in time (usually immidiately after you've told them) feel a sense of euphoria/content and seem a little dreamy but shortly things will be back to a cool/calm/collected scenario with a deeper sense of comfort. It's not something you will have to reinterate for them over and over, once is enough as long as you've actually TOLD them. Key: not just shown but verbally expressed it.

You know the expression "we hurt those we love the most"...we are probably the one type that do this most. It's sick, but when we are unsure it's a messed up way to seek justification.

Personally, I need to hear it. I do need reassurance, I put a lot in people's words. I am a woman of my word, so I expect others to be too (one's Ive made it clear to that I am). I know actions speak louder than words, but affermation is where it's at for me. At the end of the day, if I haven't heard it, I will make up my own mind of what "i think is" as oppose to "what I feel is". Not a good thing, seeing as how I will break it down to the bottom line. And the bottom line of everything I base is on the concept of Ockham's razor..."the most simple explanation tends to be the right one". That generally means, if you're not s*itting you better be getting off the pot or I'll push you off the pot.

In my situation, I'm pretty close to starting to date another guy. Super hot, we get along super, but notion of it makes me sick to my stomach. Not that it would be of more substance, I know for a fact it wont because I will resent the guy eventually...because for me he was just a means to and end that I didn't want (but self-inflicted). I just know for sure, that it'll be a caues for ending this developing "situation" with INTJ guy (for me anyways). I'll justify to myself that, although I feel a sense of progression in the form of a relationship, the simple fact that it hasn't been labled as one is enough for me to nip it where it's at and move on before I let it potentually get it worse.

As Ive stated before in another threat I think...I'm at a point where I'm trying to rationalize the benefit of INTJ guy and potential future, but I'm the type that lives in the present...and presently, I'm not content (i'm not good at "go with the flow" situations). So far, I'm feel deeply hurt by my OWN feelings of this notion...but the more I think of it...the less I'll be hurt if the INTJ himself hurts me. I'd rather resent myself, than him because he's truly amazing in my books. Sick huh?

[Mastermind99]

Hi ESTP.

Sure, you are off the chart neurotic. However, I find you very stimulating like a big Rubik's Cube. Flip one color and the whole puzzle is whacked. Yet, systematically, you give clues on how to put your puzzle together.

I of course am a male INTJ/Mastermind. I dig ESTP chicks (especially pretty ones) like no other woman. Tey seem to get me and I definately enjoy getting to knoiw them. ESTP's are like peeling onions. You get started and you think you are just about there and you find there is more to peal.

The two ESTP hotties I've known, for some reason, loved my attention to them. I love just talking to them and they love the attention. I've also learned not to give them too much attention as they get bored very easily. BUT, don't neglect them or they will, like ESTP says, do something to hurt you.

To an INTJ, an ESTP offers a deeper passion if you get there. One of the ESTP women I knew was probably my soulmate. I felt like I was speaking to an equal. I told her that. I don't think she got what that meant coming from an INTJ but telling someone that they are your mental equal is comprable to pledging your unquenched love.

My two cents...

[Jenbered1]

I am an INTJ wife of an ESTP husband. I have a question...He says he loves me and respects me...Will he use me as he uses others? Am I at times a pawn? When I am not paying attention.

[dmouth11]

In my experience with ESTPs, they tend to be:

-Very manipulative and will use people around them without thinking twice
-Have an unhealthy need to be the center of attention at all times
-Can't take care of themselves
-Have a very solipsistic view of the world and think that everyone they come across is their new best friend
-Materialistic and very shallow
-Will put down and abuse people around them, yet get completely shocked when they stand up for themselves
-Cannot be alone for longer than a few minutes

The list goes on and on. One of the ESTPs I knew is even a criminal that stole money from some of my friends, and used some sob story to get some other friends to hide him from the cops.