I sure don't feel like im in a democratic free country...

[Jakalwarrior]

WTF is up with stuff like this
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Do you guys think things would be different if we got to vote on matters like this?

[Tenacious B]

Of course, but they sneak most of this stuff in when nobody is paying attention. It helps that so much of what they do is inconsequential BS that it is hard to notice anything substantive sloshing around in the chamber.

Then there is the issue of politics being a full time job. Since it is and most of us have other work to concern ourselves with, it is nearly impossible to keep up with everything. I'd love to enact a law stating that the congress is a part-time occupation, that legislature must maintain their previous occupations and are only allowed to make law a maximum of 1 day a week. Do a real job all week, come by on Sat. for a day of voting, then go back to work. The less congressional work they do the better, imho.

[strawberrycat]

Things would deifnitely be different.

- Sigh. -

One day, when it's too late, they'll realize how much they screwed up.
I don't understand the enjoyment they get out of this either.
Power and money. Like, after a while, isn't it all the same?
If they made us all content, wouldn't they have us as their "slaves" instead of us questioning everything they do? Eh...

[Cygnus]

I do not think the US is a democracy, from what I can recall it has always been a republic.

[schwartzie]

The telecoms have been throwing large amounts of money around for this.
Here's what Lawrence Lessig has to say.
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[void]

The only golden rule that Capitol Hill follows is, "He who has the gold makes the rules".

[Antares]

Well, they're bound to sneak some things in when you don't notice. When you do, it's too late. It's inefficient to vote on everything; we'd be voting (or you would. I'm not American) all day. They take advantage of that physical impossibility and do what they want.

[qwerol]

The U.S. is not a democracy. However, a democracy would not really fix the problem. In any given debate, the minority will always be subjected to the will of the majority.

[void]

The U.S. is not a democracy. However, a democracy would not really fix the problem. In any given debate, the minority will always be subjected to the will of the majority.

The minority can easily become the majority:

“Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.” - Hermann Goering

Also see the rise of neo-conservatism in the United States. The majority of people in any country can always be brainwashed by sufficiently skilled groups.

[Claptonian]

Remember back when the Democrats took over the House and everyone thought things would change? :laugh:

I think Pete Townshend put it best: meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

[phantasma]

I do not think the US is a democracy, from what I can recall it has always been a republic.

It's one sad republic, then. The point of a republic is to elect people who will represent the people. I've yet to meet another person that is for wiretapping.

Also, I don't see how Bush can really think that he has the right to wiretap as commander in chief. There are so many people to wiretap that it's hardly an effective method of helping finish the war on terror. Why can't he get down to the heart of it and realize that this is an ideological war, and that taking out terrorists won't get us anywhere?

Funny that the dems consider themselves more liberal too, and still went along with this. This is one of the most neo-con measures that I've witnessed in recent politics.

[zibber]

I've yet to meet another person that is for wiretapping.

But.. the terrorists are making phone calls all of the time!

[phantasma]

But.. the terrorists are making phone calls all of the time!

I understand that, but in the US, they're probably a handful out of millions. It's like finding a particle of a needle in a haystack. I think it's an inefficient approach, and a waste of government intelligence. Even then, I'm sure these said terrorists know about this as well as we do, and probably obscure their messages accordingly, or use other modes of communication.

[Lucid]

What they do is certainly depressing. I think the majority of informed citizens are against the wire tapping. Wire tapping has been legal in cases where there is sufficient evidence or probable cause to obtain a warrant. Law enforcement can even get the warrant up to 48 hours after the tapping has begun in some cases and the warrants are kept confidential until the evidence has been collected.

Why they seem to think they need even more leniency is beyond me.

This whole "threat of terrorism" thing is the best thing that's happened to our government in a long time. To live in a free society means you have to sacrifice some of your safety. To love in an absolutely safe society (something which I think is impossible) means you have to sacrifice rights and freedom.

[schwartzie]

It's one sad republic, then. ... I've yet to meet another person that is for wiretapping.
.
Funny that the dems consider themselves more liberal too, and still went along with this. This is one of the most neo-con measures that I've witnessed in recent politics.

grrr...Nancy Pelosi is acting like a bleeding lapdog over this...The dems so need to hear from constituents, so they can remember they have spines and get paid to do work, not just be roadkill.

[blckprljinju]

i wonder if there's a way to flush the congress out completely and starting over with people who actually understand and respect the Constitution...