INTJ relationships - WHAT does he/she think?!

[Jesseh]

All of my ex's, with the messy break ups - have all been INTJs - Of course we've found this out after we had started dating. It's almost like a curse.

But I want to know --- there is -1- ex I can't get out of my mind. Sometimes we still talk on yahoo, he used to say he loved me but only could when he was drunk! And he never had the spine to tell me the truth about anything, he would rather run and hide than talk about -emotional- things. I wonder ...what does he think about me. *ponders*

What do -you- think about INTJ relationships, and from which perspective (male or female)?

[Anon722]

Sometimes we still talk on yahoo, he used to say he loved me but only could when he was drunk! And he never had the spine to tell me the truth about anything, he would rather run and hide than talk about -emotional- things.


It seems this guy has touched a key button, your INTJ curiosity. This is one of our softest spots when it comes to relationships. I cannot tell you for the small amout of info you give, what is the situation with this guy. Let aside what he thinks about you.

But, someone saying "I love you" is not something sacred when someone is sober, when they are drunk, even less. Things are just said, the human prefrontal cortex do not work correctly when that person is drunk, which means he can be telling what he feels, but more probably, he is just throwing out information that would travel his psyche without ever reaching his concience nor he's limbic system ( emotional brain ) and therefore revealing random and childish thoughts.

Drunk people just do not filter what they say, but that is not freedom, it's selflessness.

[Caesar]

Hello there, Jesseh. :)
I personally prefer the straightforward approach - talk about everything, because IMO misunderstandings are all too easy to encounter and the easiest way would appear to be talking things over, 'emotional' or not.
As i read somewhere.....
those relationships which ultimately do become established with an INTJ tend to be characterized by their robustness, stability, and good communications.
So 'good communications' are very important to me. I can't speak for all INTJ's, but that's how I think, being an INTJ.
Male perspective.

INTJ here....if you know what i mean

P.S. nice pic there. :thumbsup:

[Jesseh]

It seems this guy has touched a key button, your INTJ curiosity. This is one of our softest spots when it comes to relationships. I cannot tell you for the small amout of info you give, what is the situation with this guy. Let aside what he thinks about you.

But, someone saying "I love you" is not something sacred when someone is sober, when they are drunk, even less. Things are just said, the human prefrontal cortex do not work correctly when that person is drunk, which means he can be telling what he feels, but more probably, he is just throwing out information that would travel his psyche without ever reaching his concience nor he's limbic system ( emotional brain ) and therefore revealing random and childish thoughts.

Drunk people just do not filter what they say, but that is not freedom, it's selflessness.

Yes he touched my curiosity to no end. The confusion confounds me.





Jesseh added to this post, 3 minutes and 45 seconds later...

Well. He did love me, officially for the record (even spoken sober, and like he believed he's not good enough for me). Unfortunately I do not wish to go into details.. I don't think he does anymore. I just want our old unspoiled friendship to return. All my ex's are INTJs. I wonder if I should just steer clear. Although...that would be foolish to do just because of some sort of test. I just WISH he would communicate with me so I could have some clarity!!!

[changos]

For as hard as I try I cannot find other words to say this: Great for you Jesseh, you are not with a chicken anymore. Love relationships demand a lot besides verbal direct affection.

I don't think too much can be demanded if somebody can't say one "I love you". Pretty stupid huh? lots of people come to intjs and get rejected... and when an INTJ wants to hear the magic words, the other one is a chicken.

A lot of things can make anybody to avoid talking about their feelings (trauma, bad experiences or whatever), but is not a good sign being unable to say "I love you" while sober. On the other side, if you asked him with that deep look in your eyes, then is your fault... how can anybody focus? :) I had a relationship with a girl whose eyes seemed hypnotic to me. Good luck.

Also, love is not only about one person and what one feels, but making the other feel good and loved right? so if you like flowers, a guy who loves you would give you flowers from time to time... and if you want and need to hear one or many "I love you(s)" then, why not doing it?

[Jesseh]

Hrm. *sigh* Well I have deleted that human from my life. I can do better. =p

[xtremegeek]

Well. He did love me, officially for the record (even spoken sober, and like he believed he's not good enough for me). Unfortunately I do not wish to go into details.. I don't think he does anymore. I just want our old unspoiled friendship to return. All my ex's are INTJs. I wonder if I should just steer clear. Although...that would be foolish to do just because of some sort of test. I just WISH he would communicate with me so I could have some clarity!!!

When you figure out how to get that 'clarity' out of any INTJ male ex, please share the knowledge. I appreciate what you are going through and wish I could be of some help, but no can do.

[Advocate]

Hate to throw my two cents in but I figured as an example of an "INTJ ex" I'd better say something in the defence of some of us guys.

I'm well known for being straight out and open to people, to the point of being blatantly and hurtfully honest, but when it comes to love and relationships; yeah, we INTJ guys get pretty terrified. Saying "I love you" opens that door to a part of us that in all honestly , many wish didn't exist. Suddenly logic, that thing we pride ourselves on, goes right out the window and we're left open.

I mean if the guy is saying that he feels he wasn't good enough for you, I think a lot of us INTJ guys could relate. In terms of relationships/love at times the INTJ can feel like damaged property: everyone else seems to be able to just let go, have fun, live for the moment, love...blah blah blah.

At times we can feel like robots, we can do EVERYTHING else (we're smart, logical and so forth), but you put this one thing in front of us (love) and we just feel useless and out of place. Everyone else seems to cope well, so why can't we? I think a lot of us self-sabotage relationships b/cos we feel this way.

You don't think he loves you now? I don't know, but I'd guess he does. First defence mechanism is to pretend it doesn't hurt and that it doesn't mean anything, so we go back to doing the everything else we are good at and hopefully it will go away (we're Thinkers for god's sake!).

Straight forward approach? Full emotional disclosure? That's OK for you guys to say, but more often than not its come back to bite us in the ass. INTJs are notorious for being too 'out there' too quickly, or being too honest; scaring relationships off before they even happen. And what do INTJs always ask? "Does it work?" if we keep getting 'emotional talk' backfiring on us, we're inclined to realise (yes, wrongly I admit) that "no, talking about it DOES NOT WORK" therefore logic dictates that we stop talking about it altogether.

I hope other INTJ guys can relate, if not *shrugs*.
Hope this sheds some light from the other side for you Jesseh.

[Vivid]

I hope other INTJ guys can relate, if not *shrugs*.
Hope this sheds some light from the other side for you Jesseh.


I can relate, although I'm not a guy.
Being totally open would be quite awkward. After a few years, you might get a word out of me. When I say, I'll /really/ mean it.

[Bioplasmoid]

All of my ex's, with the messy break ups - have all been INTJs - Of course we've found this out after we had started dating. It's almost like a curse.

But I want to know --- there is -1- ex I can't get out of my mind. Sometimes we still talk on yahoo, he used to say he loved me but only could when he was drunk! And he never had the spine to tell me the truth about anything, he would rather run and hide than talk about -emotional- things. I wonder ...what does he think about me. *ponders*

What do -you- think about INTJ relationships, and from which perspective (male or female)?

Well I had not come across MBTI theory during my last two relationships, so cant really comment on that side of things. Though im certainly fighting the urge to contact those exes and nag them into doing some tests. The trouble I think is how easy it would be for me to blame the failure of those two relationships on different psychological types. If theres one thing ive learnt from talking to longterm couples of all ages, it is how often people who are completely different can and do make it work anyway. If they truly make that commitment to each other, to make it work, they can do do so by keeping on talking and compromising over the big issues. Compromising on things obviously has many extremes, but as an overall principle for conflict resolution it does seem to help many people get along throughout their lives.

If INTJs are as unemotional and unaffectionate as they are supposed to be, then I guess they need to find someone similar in that respect. This is one area where I dont meet the INTJ mold, personally, as I love cuddles and being close. Though for me being close can mean simply being in the same space while the two of us do our own thing. Its always nice to be a little spontaneous and distract your partner for a moment from their project/work/hobby with a random act of affection, and to receive the same from them. To talk, To hangout, etc...But its always important to try and read their signs of needing space also. Its not an easy thing to do with INTJ people from what I can tell!

As for your ex, I would suggest maybe waiting a few years until he is older before you enquire about his feelings in the past (if you still want to know then). Its amazing what a healer time can be for all sorts of ills and grudges that we might bear. And also how time and maturation can help an emotionally distant guy become a lot more straight up about his feelings, as he comes to understand himself better (in the present and past) over the years.

I often wish I could go back in time to my body and health at 21, with my current mindset,knowledge and sense of identity...Oh how differently I would live! But at least im FINALLY learning from my mistakes. When younger I was overly idealistic, unrealistic, negative, depressed, emotional,etc. As I get older, things are levelling out. The most important bit of coping with intense emotions when you are quite young, is finding a non destructive way of getting them out. Something that gets you fit maybe, or helps you write a journal or book. I regret very much not writing down more of my ideas and experiences from my late teens and early twenties. But im confident that my brain is distilling a gentle pure elixir of knowledge, and evaporating the junk and garbage over time. Hopefully I will have a nice gem of self when im much older to align with that of another, and watch the light refracting between the two of them and casting a new pattern, as we talk under the stars...Ok Im getting carried away now. Lol.

Anyway I hope you can manage to move forward without dwelling too much, on the threshold of fear and inaction. You seem very in touch with your feelings and needs in a relationship for someone your age, which is actually very positive indeed. :)

[Caesar]

yeah, we INTJ guys get pretty terrified. Saying "I love you" opens that door to a part of us that in all honestly , many wish didn't exist. Suddenly logic, that thing we pride ourselves on, goes right out the window and we're left open.


A while ago i probably would have been able to relate to that. Looks like INTJ objectivity beating INTJ unaffectionateness. :suspicious:

[xtremegeek]

Hate to throw my two cents in but I figured as an example of an "INTJ ex" I'd better say something in the defence of some of us guys.

I'm well known for being straight out and open to people, to the point of being blatantly and hurtfully honest, but when it comes to love and relationships; yeah, we INTJ guys get pretty terrified. Saying "I love you" opens that door to a part of us that in all honestly , many wish didn't exist. Suddenly logic, that thing we pride ourselves on, goes right out the window and we're left open.

I mean if the guy is saying that he feels he wasn't good enough for you, I think a lot of us INTJ guys could relate. In terms of relationships/love at times the INTJ can feel like damaged property: everyone else seems to be able to just let go, have fun, live for the moment, love...blah blah blah.

At times we can feel like robots, we can do EVERYTHING else (we're smart, logical and so forth), but you put this one thing in front of us (love) and we just feel useless and out of place. Everyone else seems to cope well, so why can't we? I think a lot of us self-sabotage relationships b/cos we feel this way.

You don't think he loves you now? I don't know, but I'd guess he does. First defence mechanism is to pretend it doesn't hurt and that it doesn't mean anything, so we go back to doing the everything else we are good at and hopefully it will go away (we're Thinkers for god's sake!).

Straight forward approach? Full emotional disclosure? That's OK for you guys to say, but more often than not its come back to bite us in the ass. INTJs are notorious for being too 'out there' too quickly, or being too honest; scaring relationships off before they even happen. And what do INTJs always ask? "Does it work?" if we keep getting 'emotional talk' backfiring on us, we're inclined to realise (yes, wrongly I admit) that "no, talking about it DOES NOT WORK" therefore logic dictates that we stop talking about it altogether.

I hope other INTJ guys can relate, if not *shrugs*.
Hope this sheds some light from the other side for you Jesseh.

So if I understand you correctly, you have let a relationship fall apart, not because you didn't love the person, but because you didn't know what to do with that aspect of yourself? Hypothetical here - what if you were a total ass to some gal, and you knew you were being an ass, you didn't want to be an ass, things spiraled out of control, and before you know it, the two of you are broken up. If that person really loved you and was willing to try to make things work again, would you not be willing to try again with that person? Wouldn't that be safer than never talking to that person again, and trying to find someone new who interests you as much as this person you broke up with interested you. Wouldn't it be much harder for an INTJ to start from scratch versus repairing the relationship with someone with whom you have some familiarity?

From everything I've read on this forum about you INTJs and relationships, it seems to me you would resort to the bicycle method. You try; you fall; you get back up and try that same bicycle again until you finally feel comfortable on that bike. If the object of your affection really, truly loves you, she/he would forgive you a thousand times and keep trying with you. That's what it's all about...yes?

[Uberfuhrer]

All of my ex's, with the messy break ups - have all been INTJs - Of course we've found this out after we had started dating. It's almost like a curse.

But I want to know --- there is -1- ex I can't get out of my mind. Sometimes we still talk on yahoo, he used to say he loved me but only could when he was drunk! And he never had the spine to tell me the truth about anything, he would rather run and hide than talk about -emotional- things. I wonder ...what does he think about me. *ponders*

What do -you- think about INTJ relationships, and from which perspective (male or female)?

If you subscribe to the type relationships theory, it's said that INTJs tend to hate each other in relationships. According to Keirsey, the ideal mate for an INTJ is an ENFP (I find myself attracted to them, myself, actually), because both types think in a similar ways but they're pretty opposite in every other respect. Direct opposites attract, too, so the INTJ could be attracted to the ESFP on a superficial level, but they'll discover that their way of thinking is not the same, so the INTJ takes the ENFP, so they are, for all intents and purposes, opposites but they are linked by the same kind of thinking pattern.

Although I can imagine how a relationship made of two INTJs can be Hell. They'd probably be too opinionated with each other.

Again, that's only if you subscribe to this theory. I imagine it's different for other people and it mostly amounts to personal preference. No two INTJs are the same, they just share basic thought patterns. It probably depends more on the individual than the type.

[curiousjane]

My aunt and uncle are both primarily INTJ (uncle swings INTP; aunt, INFJ). They get along well, as far as I know. Very quiet. Very studious. Can live apart, if need be (such as when taking shifts caring for my grandparents when they were ill).

[Jesseh]

So if I understand you correctly, you have let a relationship fall apart, not because you didn't love the person, but because you didn't know what to do with that aspect of yourself? Hypothetical here - what if you were a total ass to some gal, and you knew you were being an ass, you didn't want to be an ass, things spiraled out of control, and before you know it, the two of you are broken up. If that person really loved you and was willing to try to make things work again, would you not be willing to try again with that person? Wouldn't that be safer than never talking to that person again, and trying to find someone new who interests you as much as this person you broke up with interested you. Wouldn't it be much harder for an INTJ to start from scratch versus repairing the relationship with someone with whom you have some familiarity?

From everything I've read on this forum about you INTJs and relationships, it seems to me you would resort to the bicycle method. You try; you fall; you get back up and try that same bicycle again until you finally feel comfortable on that bike. If the object of your affection really, truly loves you, she/he would forgive you a thousand times and keep trying with you. That's what it's all about...yes?

Well I had not come across MBTI theory during my last two relationships, so cant really comment on that side of things. Though im certainly fighting the urge to contact those exes and nag them into doing some tests. The trouble I think is how easy it would be for me to blame the failure of those two relationships on different psychological types. If theres one thing ive learnt from talking to longterm couples of all ages, it is how often people who are completely different can and do make it work anyway. If they truly make that commitment to each other, to make it work, they can do do so by keeping on talking and compromising over the big issues. Compromising on things obviously has many extremes, but as an overall principle for conflict resolution it does seem to help many people get along throughout their lives.

If INTJs are as unemotional and unaffectionate as they are supposed to be, then I guess they need to find someone similar in that respect. This is one area where I dont meet the INTJ mold, personally, as I love cuddles and being close. Though for me being close can mean simply being in the same space while the two of us do our own thing. Its always nice to be a little spontaneous and distract your partner for a moment from their project/work/hobby with a random act of affection, and to receive the same from them. To talk, To hangout, etc...But its always important to try and read their signs of needing space also. Its not an easy thing to do with INTJ people from what I can tell!

As for your ex, I would suggest maybe waiting a few years until he is older before you enquire about his feelings in the past (if you still want to know then). Its amazing what a healer time can be for all sorts of ills and grudges that we might bear. And also how time and maturation can help an emotionally distant guy become a lot more straight up about his feelings, as he comes to understand himself better (in the present and past) over the years.

I often wish I could go back in time to my body and health at 21, with my current mindset,knowledge and sense of identity...Oh how differently I would live! But at least im FINALLY learning from my mistakes. When younger I was overly idealistic, unrealistic, negative, depressed, emotional,etc. As I get older, things are levelling out. The most important bit of coping with intense emotions when you are quite young, is finding a non destructive way of getting them out. Something that gets you fit maybe, or helps you write a journal or book. I regret very much not writing down more of my ideas and experiences from my late teens and early twenties. But im confident that my brain is distilling a gentle pure elixir of knowledge, and evaporating the junk and garbage over time. Hopefully I will have a nice gem of self when im much older to align with that of another, and watch the light refracting between the two of them and casting a new pattern, as we talk under the stars...Ok Im getting carried away now. Lol.

Anyway I hope you can manage to move forward without dwelling too much, on the threshold of fear and inaction. You seem very in touch with your feelings and needs in a relationship for someone your age, which is actually very positive indeed. :)

I have apologized a thousand times... and I realized - I am not at fault.

I have forgiven him for the sabotage a million times, because I know how it goes. I am guilty of sabotage too. Infact, I reckon he and I have sabotaged each other, the thought of REAL love, lasting love, finding your mate, the person you want to be with forever -is daunting-. And you (or just I) never feel good enough for them if I find myself caring about them, seeing them as an equal! He is the only male that can make me break down and cry for no reason, the only male I would die for, the only male that I can see marrying ten years from now. Perhaps when I am more mature, and he is more mature. I worry about him so much. ((Sigh))

I used to send him millions of letters online ((Because he wouldnt talk to me)). I thought he had me on ignore ((He's in the Navy, so you know, he's faaar awwaaay)). Unfortunately, he read every nasty horrible thing I'd ever written. Ever single thing. He said I scarred him for life. Then in anger he said "I only used you for sex!" It was so apparent he was lying, that I realized I had hurt him that much. =/

I still (Until just recently) messaged him again, after 2 months of no contact. His birthday had come around.

He responded as if ... well, I dont know how to explain it. It shows when you are writing a message, and when you are not - on yahoo. And he paused, wrote some more, paused, wrote, it took him 30 seconds to say "Hey Baby."
And he never once called me, or any other girl that... ever.

I like to know how he's doing, because I worry. The only person I actually DO worry about, only man that can squeeze out a pathetic plea.

Too much drama. I'm going to see a hypnotherapist and try to see what I can do. If an INTJ Loves... (for me atleast) it is the deepest and most... unshakable feeling.

I constantly think "I must be a stalker." But then I realize, he may be thinking about me just as much...

*sigh*

I dislike this emotion. -_- However, when he is out of the navy in 2 years, I will try to contact him, and I will also be hoping that he has found a wonderful woman.

[Monte314]

Wow, women are sure analytical about this stuff, wondering what he's thinking, why did he choose that *particular* word, what did that "look" he gave me mean...

We guys are not nearly that complicated. We aren't carefully pondering our "relationships" in the way that ladies do; we are generally not all that careful with our words; and the "look" didn't mean anything at the time, and if it did, we've already forgotten what that was.

The drama is mostly one-sided. Men are pretty easy to emotionally "reboot" a lot of the time. History is usually a lot less important to us than what is happening right now.

[xtremegeek]

It is interesting that he reads everything Jesseh sends him. If I didn't want anything to do with someone, I would send their e-mails to the spam trash can.

I guess, if I was in your shoes, I would back off on the communication. Perhaps only send him one communication a month just to let him know that you haven't forgotten him.

[curiousjane]

Wow, women are sure analytical about this stuff, wondering what he's thinking, why did he choose that *particular* word, what did that "look" he gave me mean...

We guys are not nearly that complicated. We aren't carefully pondering our "relationships" in the way that ladies do; we are generally not all that careful with our words; and the "look" didn't mean anything at the time, and if it did, we've already forgotten what that was.

The drama is mostly one-sided. Men are pretty easy to emotionally "reboot" a lot of the time. History is usually a lot less important to us than what is happening right now.

I try to remind myself of this quite often. For crying out loud, I have brothers. I KNOW how guys are.

But that doesn't stop me from over-analyzing. But it seems to me that relationships that work are relationships that lack the whole "what on earth is he thinking?" element and are just two people who don't want to do anything other than be with each other on a daily basis. All of the marriages I've seen have started out this way. Maybe there's something to that.

We analyze, because we are trying to make sense out of the insensible. Why, if he likes me so much, am I just not sure of that?

Seems like the whole circular issue could be stopped just by guys being open and girls stopping over-analyzing.

Whatever. I'm tired. And I'm not thinking straight. And I'm just so tired of wondering if I've imagined the whole thing in my mind, or if I'm in denial.

I hope things work out for you Jesseh, in such a way that you find a peace in the relationship status, and growth from the experience.

[xtremegeek]

Good point Curiousjane. Jesseh, as hard as it may be, let go of your 'NT' thinking for this relationship, otherwise, you'll think it to death.

[Marcus]

Wow, women are sure analytical about this stuff, wondering what he's thinking, why did he choose that *particular* word, what did that "look" he gave me mean...

We guys are not nearly that complicated. We aren't carefully pondering our "relationships" in the way that ladies do; we are generally not all that careful with our words; and the "look" didn't mean anything at the time, and if it did, we've already forgotten what that was.

The drama is mostly one-sided. Men are pretty easy to emotionally "reboot" a lot of the time. History is usually a lot less important to us than what is happening right now.

Actually I think that those things do count, just men tend to ignore them.