Goths

[Jesseh]

What do you think about the social Goth movement? As a child I was categorized as a goth, due to my dark sense of humor, choice in clothing, and ...well you can probably imagine the rest. What really makes a person a goth? ...and why is it so damn sexy?

Please give me your thoughts on goths, vampires, the whole lot.

[Uberfuhrer]

I love Goths for the exact same reason you have described, not to mention they are incredibly hot. However, I myself don't dress like one -- I'm too cheap -- but I am praised for a very dark and bizarre sense of humor.

I guess, to me, what makes them so hot is because of the darkness of their clothing and their cynicism which I very much identify with. I have an attraction to morbid things. And like Goths, I'm perceived as abnormal, when in reality, I'm just not a member of the flock.

But like I said, I personally don't dress like that -- I don't express myself with clothing, I have ideas. Plus, I just don't think I'd look good in Goth clothing.

[Jesseh]

We have a very similar view on the subject <3

[Bioplasmoid]

I love Goths for the exact same reason you have described, not to mention they are incredibly hot. However, I myself don't dress like one -- I'm too cheap -- but I am praised for a very dark and bizarre sense of humor.

I guess, to me, what makes them so hot is because of the darkness of their clothing and their cynicism which I very much identify with. I have an attraction to morbid things. And like Goths, I'm perceived as abnormal, when in reality, I'm just not a member of the flock.

But like I said, I personally don't dress like that -- I don't express myself with clothing, I have ideas. Plus, I just don't think I'd look good in Goth clothing.

I completely agree with you. Also for me the very pale soft looking skin is rather sexy, though I have no idea why. There are many grades of pale skin, and only a certain tone does it for me. But it gets me every time!

[Jesseh]

Lol Purple! <3 Paleness!

[Danisty]

I was goth back in high school and shortly after. It was especially different for me because I was the first person in my small town to dress like that. Years later I met some goth kids at a local diner and when they realized who I was, they proceeded to tell me that everyone was still talking about how I started it. It was weird.

I still very much like the goth look, but I basically don't feel like putting the time into being goth myself. I still have the dark sense of humor though. :)

[curiousjane]

Some of Goth culture frightens me in its eerie/dreary intensity. I had a coworker I really liked back in college, and she and her boyfriend were sort of fringe Goths. Lots of black.

I remember she was very artsy and he was in a band. They loved gaming. And she had designed these mechanical angel wings that she had tatooed on her back. They were pretty amazing.

But she had admitted to me that when she was really heavy into the Goth movement and death metal, she struggled violently with depression, and it sent her bi-polarity into extremes. That's disturbing. She finally realized the music and mindset were partially to blame for her mood swings and depression, so she had to come out of that.

Otherwise, I have no problems with people dressing Goth to express themselves. And I have found that many times "Goths" are the most open, honest people I've met. They know who they are, who they want to be, and are okay with being different. There's a lot "normal" people can learn from them!

Side note: I do love to mess with the staff of Hot Topic whenever possible. It's like this reverse discrimination thing ... I dress fairly moderately, with more of a classic/comfy bent when I'm not boasting a whimsical t-shirt and jeans ... so when I love to walk into the store and stare at the t-shirt wall or bumper sticker counter and be amused, I always get stared at. Usually, I am still wearing clothes from work (business casual). The girl with the hot pink streaks in black, black hair and lots of metal studs throughout her body will sidle up to me and look at me curiously.

"Um, can I ... help? ... you?" she says.
"No, that's fine. I'm just looking," I say. Inwardly I'm laughing. She looks so confused and skeptical.

I mean, really. Can't a girl enjoy a funny t-shirt or two? I bet the clerk never even played the original Mario when it first came out (featured on a t-shirt), because she hadn't been born yet!

:laugh:

[Uberfuhrer]

I have to admit that emo girls can be hot, too. The trouble is that it's very difficult for one to decipher whether or not some of them are really girls in the traditional sense.

[Danisty]

I have to admit that emo girls can be hot, too. The trouble is that it's very difficult for one to decipher whether or not some of them are really girls in the traditional sense.Personally, I think that's what makes them hot.

As for depression and the goth scene, I really think the connection is kind of flimsy. I knew some goths who were depressed, but I knew a lot of "normal" people who were depressed too. Most of the goths I knew, including myself, were really happy people overall.

[curiousjane]

Yeah, I guess I didn't express that well enough. That was my point ... some can get sucked into that part of it (depression, etc.) especially if they are physiologically and psychologically predisposed to chemical/emotional imbalances.

Yet most are happy, healthy, and more "real" than the "normal" people who look down on them. In general, I've liked the Goths I've known. :)

[ThaiGreenTea]

Goths are no different than any other people. I hate some. I like some. That's it.

[Danisty]

Yeah, I guess I didn't express that well enough. That was my point ... some can get sucked into that part of it (depression, etc.) especially if they are physiologically and psychologically predisposed to chemical/emotional imbalances.Do you think these people would not have gotten sucked into depression if they weren't goth though? I tend to think that the very same people would be sucked into depression in any social scene and they would have complaints about how that scene wasn't good for them.

[Jesseh]

Personally, the years I -was- happiest with my life, was when I dressed the way I wanted, which would be categorized as goth. I was happiest in my army boots, strange clothing and black fingernails. Personally I am artsy, very indeed. I am also honest, and open with who I am, however I do not like to be trapped in a category. I like dark things, science, paranormal things, spiked collars, being pale, too much eyeshadow, and red lipstick. However, dressing in such a manner scares people. Like, I used to be accused of being a satanist! Personally I don't care too much about religion in general, but having people avoid you just because of the way you dress is pretty depressing in itself. =/ *yawns* Im just jabbering on about nothing right now ^,^

[Mozzes]

Like, I used to be accused of being a satanist! Personally I don't care too much about religion in general, but having people avoid you just because of the way you dress is pretty depressing in itself. =/ *yawns* Im just jabbering on about nothing right now ^,^

I was kind of like an inverted version of you. People assumed I was normal until I opened my mouth.

I still find it odd that anyone would judge other people so harshly based on appearance.

[Jesseh]

I was kind of like an inverted version of you. People assumed I was normal until I opened my mouth.

I still find it odd that anyone would judge other people so harshly based on appearance.

As do I. =/

[Beery Swine]

Goth chicks are hot. Goth guys are weird. But then again, I'm a straight male who's utilitarian in wardrobe matters, so not I'm too much into men's attire in general.

[ThaiGreenTea]

I was kind of like an inverted version of you. People assumed I was normal until I opened my mouth.

I still find it odd that anyone would judge other people so harshly based on appearance.

Hahahaha. Really?

That's funny, because I, like nearly every other human being on Earth, judge things very strongly on appearance. That's how humans operate. We classify things. If we weren't able to do this, then we wouldn't know what to expect in a given situation. It's a necessary survival mechanism, and an instrument which reinforces bias.

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[Riverratt]

I wish I knew how to make my yard emo.....

So it would cut itself.....

[Danisty]

Like, I used to be accused of being a satanist! Personally I don't care too much about religion in general, but having people avoid you just because of the way you dress is pretty depressing in itself. =/ *yawns* Im just jabbering on about nothing right now ^,^Oh I was accused of being a Satanist all through high school. The funny part is that I was, but I never told anyone at school. It was all an assumption on their part. I honestly didn't mind though. People didn't mess with me because they were scared to. That was preferable to being bullied.

[Mozzes]

Hahahaha. Really?

That's funny, because I, like nearly every other human being on Earth, judge things very strongly on appearance. That's how humans operate. We classify things. If we weren't able to do this, then we wouldn't know what to expect in a given situation. It's a necessary survival mechanism, and an instrument which reinforces bias.

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That's also why we have a frontal lobe. There's a difference between thinking something and saying it.

Also if group prejudices are based on associations then I would suspect that they are capable of being unlearned. As with classical conditioning if you change the association you should be able to change the behavior.

[PHS Philip]

I tend to take issue with a lot of these sorts of things because being different for the sake of being different seems stupid to me. I'm different because it's who I am, not because I decided that it's now cooler to be different. Tying in with that, it seems that many joining these movements are doing just that: joining a new group.

I don't single any "rebellion" movement out, of course. They're all pretty much the same, except for the people that start the movement.

But it doesn't go beyond thinking that they're no better than most people. It doesn't make you much worse in my eyes, except that I may decide you're a bit of a hypocrite. It's not causing any harm, so there's nothing wrong with it beyond ordinary human psychology.

[LionsPride]

I enjoy any person who is honest in who they are and I find talking to them refreshing. I never had the opportunity to meet a 'true' goth. All the ones I met were mainly posers who wrote bad depressing poetry and griped about the world all night until they drove their Mom's SUV home to the suburbs. The guy goths were just trolling for girls with low self esteem and the girl goths were just rebelling, against what they didn't know, but they were definitely against it. I always felt that the goths I bumped into had to be making the real goths cringe.

[TheReal]

Personally, I don't find goths or the goth style attractive at all. It could be just the people that represented goths in my school that make me feel this way about it. Seems like they dress up to get attention and feed off of the sympathy of others. or somehow feeling they are non-conformist or unique while hanging out with 4 to 8 other goth friends. I am repulsed by anything emo, and the idea of cutting ones self boggles me. That INTJ thing where you lose all respect for somebody just wants to trigger when I see an emo/ goth. But since I know I can't judge harshly based on looks alone, I just see the style as humorous at times. I remember this one goth girl had lots of chains on her jeans and book bag, one day she tried to get up out of her desk and the chains hooked on part of her desk and dragged it for quite some time. Me and my intj friend couldn't stop laughing.

With that said, I started talking to a fellow introvert in school that had the goth appearance. He claimed to worship Satan, I was an atheist, he listened to Korn, I listened to Eminem, close enough. We were best friends in no time.

My friend also despised rap/ hip-hop a lot. I liked all music but mainly listened to rap at the time (while keeping a neutral appearance). We still got along just fine, but do you think hip-hop and goth / death metal are just natural enemies? I might be confusing these two with mainstream / underground type music in general. All I know is that it's taking too long for my thoughts to be put into words.

[replicant]

I enjoy any person who is honest in who they are and I find talking to them refreshing. I never had the opportunity to meet a 'true' goth. All the ones I met were mainly posers who wrote bad depressing poetry and griped about the world all night until they drove their Mom's SUV home to the suburbs. The guy goths were just trolling for girls with low self esteem and the girl goths were just rebelling, against what they didn't know, but they were definitely against it. I always felt that the goths I bumped into had to be making the real goths cringe.

Total truth at least from my experience. I have always been into goth and industrial music. I used to frequent this club in downtown Richmond. The "so called" goths that would show up there were chiefly posers and at the time being goth was very trendy. I would observe some of the snottiest behavior and just annoying shallow behavior.

They really disrespected an industrial act that worked hard and gave a great performance. The musician got so upset, he chucked his beer at them. I got a great chuckle. They ran off quickly to re-prine themselves.

I generally don't have a problem with any particular group or subgroup unless they start creating unnecessary trouble. I become highly irritated with people that care more about their vanity than their mind.

[deicruxified]

I was goth back in high school and shortly after. It was especially different for me because I was the first person in my small town to dress like that. Years later I met some goth kids at a local diner and when they realized who I was, they proceeded to tell me that everyone was still talking about how I started it. It was weird.

I still very much like the goth look, but I basically don't feel like putting the time into being goth myself. I still have the dark sense of humor though. :)

ditto...

i still wear a lot of black and sometimes i contrast with color... i find black very elegant and at the same time practical because you can match it with other colors and, for me, the easiest to hand wash ***i don't trust the washing machine***

[Caesar]

I tend to take issue with a lot of these sorts of things because being different for the sake of being different seems stupid to me. I'm different because it's who I am, not because I decided that it's now cooler to be different. Tying in with that, it seems that many joining these movements are doing just that: joining a new group.

I don't single any "rebellion" movement out, of course. They're all pretty much the same, except for the people that start the movement.

But it doesn't go beyond thinking that they're no better than most people. It doesn't make you much worse in my eyes, except that I may decide you're a bit of a hypocrite. It's not causing any harm, so there's nothing wrong with it beyond ordinary human psychology.

:thumbsup:

[Danisty]

I enjoy any person who is honest in who they are and I find talking to them refreshing. I never had the opportunity to meet a 'true' goth. All the ones I met were mainly posers who wrote bad depressing poetry and griped about the world all night until they drove their Mom's SUV home to the suburbs. The guy goths were just trolling for girls with low self esteem and the girl goths were just rebelling, against what they didn't know, but they were definitely against it. I always felt that the goths I bumped into had to be making the real goths cringe.Yes, they always made me cringe. Like I said, I was goth before anyone else in my town was. I kind of made things up for myself. There was no Hot Topic or anything like that. At that time, the people that were goth were creative and interesting. After a few years, it became trendy and you'd find a lot of people who were just posers.

[thod]

What do you think about the social Goth movement?

Social movement? You mean silly over emotional teenagers dressing in black. Its nothing but a fancy dress party. There are no ideals there, time to grow up.

[Danisty]

Social movement? You mean silly over emotional teenagers dressing in black. Its nothing but a fancy dress party. There are no ideals there, time to grow up.Well you've successfully described the posers.

[Vivid]

I don't care for any of the social movements, or whatever we're calling them (goth, preps, emos, and the like).
The attire, pale skin, and general appearance of goths doesn't look attractive at all to me. I'm bewildered by people's fondness of it. I like dark humor, though, so I've been called goth before. But I don't dress like one.

[OneBadMother]

Social movements often emphasize a smug conformist non-conformity that I don't particularly enjoy. At the same time, the clannish part of my human nature likes being considered a nerd, so there we go.

[Deadgod]

Goth culture is an interesting subculture. I myself don't conform to it but I respect them for being who they are. And yes they are more than just dress-up posturers. It's called the Internet. Use it to your utility and find out more about Gothic Culture. I don't know about the clothes being expensive. I heard you can DIY. As far as I know it, Goth culture emerged from Punk culture, and Punk culture is almost entirely DIY. To further note, Hot Topic is another rip-off of underground culture and is creating a conformist, hipsterish attitude within the underground (or borderline mainstream) which further destroys the quality of underground music. Hot topic junkies and shoppers should always be subject to ridicule, sarcasm, and other unmentionables. Also, Death Metal is loosely related to Goth culture and isn't a promoter of depression. Chemical Imbalance is. Or lack of values.

[Danisty]

Goth culture is an interesting subculture. I myself don't conform to it but I respect them for being who they are. And yes they are more than just dress-up posturers. It's called the Internet. Use it to your utility and find out more about Gothic Culture. I don't know about the clothes being expensive. I heard you can DIY. As far as I know it, Goth culture emerged from Punk culture, and Punk culture is almost entirely DIY. To further note, Hot Topic is another rip-off of underground culture and is creating a conformist, hipsterish attitude within the underground (or borderline mainstream) which further destroys the quality of underground music. Hot topic junkies and shoppers should always be subject to ridicule, sarcasm, and other unmentionables. Also, Death Metal is loosely related to Goth culture and isn't a promoter of depression. Chemical Imbalance is. Or lack of values.Well, when I was goth DIY was the only option! When Hot Topic came about, that's when you started getting a lot of posers and the goth thing became more mainstream. I don't even like the clothes at Hot Topic. If I was going to dress goth now, I'd still do it my own way.

[azelismia]

Well you've successfully described the posers.


and everyone else... denial.. I agree with Thod. The whole goth thing is extremely silly in my opinion. The 80's version was just as silly. I never liked that sort of crowd. cringeworthy and all that.

[Danisty]

and everyone else... denial.. I agree with Thod. The whole goth thing is extremely silly in my opinion. The 80's version was just as silly. I never liked that sort of crowd. cringeworthy and all that.He didn't describe me or any of the friends I had.

[azelismia]

He didn't describe me or any of the friends I had.

one never thinks that sort of thing about oneself does one?

[Jesseh]

Hrm... repugnant and close minded views. -_- I wonder if that is typical of INTJs.

[ElstonGunn]

I like the goths. Alaric, Theodoric, they're all pretty badass.

[Danisty]

one never thinks that sort of thing about oneself does one?Or you could just be wrong. :rolleyes: Not everyone fits into a stereotype and that an INTJ would argue that seems beyond absurd to me anyway.

[azelismia]

Or you could just be wrong. :rolleyes: Not everyone fits into a stereotype and that an INTJ would argue that seems beyond absurd to me anyway.


Why would it be absurd that an intj would argue that?

[stasis]

But she had admitted to me that when she was really heavy into the Goth movement and death metal, she struggled violently with depression, and it sent her bi-polarity into extremes. That's disturbing. She finally realized the music and mindset were partially to blame for her mood swings and depression, so she had to come out of that.
Generally speaking, the goth scene isn't aesthetically associated with death metal. Or much in the way of metal at all for that matter. How long ago was this, though?

[Erika Redmark]

I like XKCD's take (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) on this, as with many things.

And, as people have said, the Dead Poets Society paradox–"You should be non-conformist!" "I'm not going to take that at face value, so I'm going to rebel against non-conformity…and conform!"

[Danisty]

Why would it be absurd that an intj would argue that?Because I have yet to meet an INTJ that fits into other people's stereotypes.

[Motor Jax]

I completely agree with you. Also for me the very pale soft looking skin is rather sexy, though I have no idea why. There are many grades of pale skin, and only a certain tone does it for me. But it gets me every time!

pale skin, traditionally, has been looked upon as being unhealthy. whereas darker tones speak a healthy complexion. but i think that the extremes of either speak healthy in their own right.

I have to admit that emo girls can be hot, too. The trouble is that it's very difficult for one to decipher whether or not some of them are really girls in the traditional sense.

not for me. i'm not up for trying to lift someone else up simply because they want to remain emo. they HAVE to have some passion and a will to fight. they have to be strong-hearted. i thrive off strength and look for toughness. i'm all about passion (this is exactly what drives me crazy about my g/f)


Personally, the years I -was- happiest with my life, was when I dressed the way I wanted, which would be categorized as goth. I was happiest in my army boots, strange clothing and black fingernails. Personally I am artsy, very indeed. I am also honest, and open with who I am, however I do not like to be trapped in a category. I like dark things, science, paranormal things, spiked collars, being pale, too much eyeshadow, and red lipstick. However, dressing in such a manner scares people. Like, I used to be accused of being a satanist! Personally I don't care too much about religion in general, but having people avoid you just because of the way you dress is pretty depressing in itself. =/ *yawns* Im just jabbering on about nothing right now ^,^

yeah, i was a bit of a satanist in my teen years, no doubt

[azelismia]

Because I have yet to meet an INTJ that fits into other people's stereotypes.

if you re-read the whole sentence that Thod wrote that I agreed with it was talking about a movement and the ideals of a movement. so if there are no ideals to a movement and it's just a bunch of silly teenagers playing "fancy dress party" how can an intj be different? if there is no party manifest so to speak how can they follow it?