Dating INTJ females

[Lucid]

In many posts about dating and relationships people talk about INTJ women as opposed to "normal" women. I think I have a pretty good idea of how INTJ women differ from "normal" women in a general sense, but how do we differ when it comes to dating?

What to INTJ women do or not do in relationships that's different from "normal" women??

[Santana28]

well, i'm new to the whole "dating" thing. actually...thats it. i dont date. i see something i like and i go for it (and get it 9 xs out of 10). i prefer longer term relationships to short term ones because i prefer to completely learn the ins and outs of who i am seeing, it is like a game. it is a challenge. and when it is no longer challenging... i move on.

i have been told my a number of men that i am "intimidating" and it inhibits their "performance." i'm decently attractive but definitely not a knockout... its all attitude, i guess. but its an attitude with the knowledge that i will follow up on everything that i say i will do...

[Henry]

Would never date a woman I knew to be INTJ. I have all the INTJ a relationship can handle.

well, i'm new to the whole "dating" thing. actually...thats it. i dont date. i see something i like and i go for it (and get it 9 xs out of 10). i prefer longer term relationships to short term ones because i prefer to completely learn the ins and outs of who i am seeing, it is like a game. it is a challenge. and when it is no longer challenging... i move on.

i have been told my a number of men that i am "intimidating" and it inhibits their "performance." i'm decently attractive but definitely not a knockout... its all attitude, i guess. but its an attitude with the knowledge that i will follow up on everything that i say i will do...

Whoa, your epeen is huge.

[Elfrun]

The 'feeling' & reassurance stuff predominantly.

-I do not need to be in a relationship to feel complete.
-I do not define myself by my relationships.
-I do not need to be reassured.
-I want mental stimulation.
-I want to feel comfortable with silence.
-I want a time for humor and a time for seriousness.
-I want to understand him, completely.
-I want him to spend alone time with his friends.
-I want us to talk to each other about problems we may be having, not our friends, they can't fix it!
-I will not complain for the sake of complaining, If I tell him a problem I want an answer not sympathy.
-I will not spend every minute of every day with my partner - I would kill him and end up in jail!
-I will not tell him what to do, he must be capable of making his own decisions.
-I will not accept a submissive or dominant relationship, it’s equal or not at all.
-I will not allow someone to make decisions for me, I have a mind of my own thanks.

Seriously, I don’t know how many of them are considered ‘normal’ or otherwise but it seems what I want is quite different to most of my female friends.

[major757league]

Can someone (preferably a female) tell me a tell tale sign of an intj female? I'm pretty sure I never dated one but I would like to know when I have one of those rare intj females in my grasp because I think I would never let her go whether she be a friend or a lover. I think a female like me would be essential to my plans for world domination or whatever I plan to dominate this week. Haha

[Elfrun]

Can someone (preferably a female) tell me a tell tale sign of an intj female? I'm pretty sure I never dated one but I would like to know when I have one of those rare intj females in my grasp because I think I would never let her go whether she be a friend or a lover. I think a female like me would be essential to my plans for world domination or whatever I plan to dominate this week. Haha

The one sitting in the corner listening to her friends prattle on only perking up when a significant subject is raised then switching off again when the latest evictee from BB is mentioned! ;D

You can check out this thread (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) for some answers, if not I suggest a tag search by gender, there are some other relevant threads floating about.

[QuickSilver]

In many posts about dating and relationships people talk about INTJ women as opposed to "normal" women. I think I have a pretty good idea of how INTJ women differ from "normal" women in a general sense, but how do we differ when it comes to dating?

What to INTJ women do or not do in relationships that's different from "normal" women??

How do INTJ women differ from "normal" women?

-INTJ women place more value on objective truth, facts and logic as opposed to feelings and subjective impressions.


My type is a romantic match for the INTJ; beyond the theory this is apparent in the practical sense.


In my experience, INTJ's [especially women] are very often curious about what I have to say, almost always smiling and laughing at the jokes I make and whatever "spin" I happen to be putting on reality at the moment. This leads to a high probability that any INTJ in my immediate vicinity will be a happy INTJ at any given moment in time.

Sometimes, with regard to *really* enjoying the humor, sparkle and intimacy of life, it seems like INTJ's should come with a label that says: "batteries not included", but an ENTP can be the battery that really brings the INTJ to life.

INTJ's often tell me "I feel smarter when I'm talking to you" [not in the sense of comparing us; instead indicating a joint rise in ability]; I think that what they're really describing is the synergy between our different ways of examining the world.

I have excellent stamina when it comes to exciting interactions, so I usually find it expedient to remember that INTJ's need "down-time" to recover their energy before we continue moving onward and upward to bigger and better things.

With regard to intimacy, the line between intellect and sex becomes pleasantly blurred as flirtatious conversation can easily escalate from a playful verbal wrestling match to a playful physical activity of a different sort.



When I contrast this with my experiences with other women, I note that:

- Other women do not often have the intellectual depth that an INTJ woman is likely to be able to offer. ENTP's often have difficulty finding conversational partners with sufficient ability and a smart, inquisitive INTJ (if you can coax her out of her shell) is a breath of fresh air.

- INTJ women can retain rationality when discussing controversial topics while other females might not.

- An INTJ woman will likely demonstrate excellent ability to predict and follow-through on obligations. When combined with very strong decision making ability, the result is a highly dependable partner who can be trusted with almost any pursuit.




One of the most significant challenges of being an ENTP is that very often people aren't quite sure if you're "pulling a fast one"; they're hesitant to trust you (even if you're being completely honest) because they're always afraid that you're going to outfox them.

INTJ women are great because, although inherently rather cautious, if given enough time they will always be smart enough to figure out what's going on and can therefore learn that you are honest. This allows the building of mutual trust and respect.

[Antares]

One of the most significant challenges of being an ENTP is that very often people aren't quite sure if you're "pulling a fast one"; they're hesitant to trust you (even if you're being completely honest) because they're always afraid that you're going to outfox them.

That's why I have been very evasive of any potential relationship with an ENTP. He just doesn't seem like the type to last.

[QuickSilver]

That's why I have been very evasive of any potential relationship with an ENTP. He just doesn't seem like the type to last.

Well, it's usually smart to be suspicious of anyone who says "Trust me!", so my advice to you is to use your brain and observe whether ENTP's are generally benevolent, and whether you are eventually able to figure out what people are up to anyways.

The INTJ being eventually able to figure things out is important because it creates a "repeated game" scenario:



Let's imagine that you and I are farmers. Also, let's imagine that you have the magical ability to plow & plant fields instantly, whereas I have the magical ability to make rain.

The climate is hot and arid. You plow your fields easily but they languish in the blistering heat; I shovel and plant by hand for days and days, hardly getting anything done.

Ultimately we both have sub optimal harvests.

So one day I come to you and say: "Hi there. How about you plant me some fields, and I'll bring the rain for both of us?"

You, realizing the potential, say: "Sure, let's try that."

Now, if I were short sighted, I might wait until both fields are planted and then water only my own crops (so as to save effort). But I know that, come next season, we're going to be doing this very same thing again: I'll want your help & I want you to want mine.

So the rain falls like clockwork across all of our lands, and life is good.


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[Evalind]

-I do not need to be reassured.


I'd add "I do not like being/feeling ignored" right behind this one. If I get a haircut, I don't need to hear that my husband loves it, but it's nice to hear that he noticed it. Also, one of the nicest things my husband can say to me is "Good point." because then I know he heard me, even if he ultimately disagrees with me.

[Lupin]

- I appreciate the depth of thinking from another INTJ and have huge respect for those who feedback to me that they understand me better, know I need time to reflect and who allow me to disappear for "downtime" to re-charge.

- I'm impressed by the empathy some people have towards others and to me (it can be the simple observation of others helping others that encourages me to hold a person in higher regard).

- I like to smell the roses and ponder a little more, reviewing my ideas, reappraising my thoughts...this does not mean procrastination - it helps me know whether this is a good idea, what the contingencies are, whether to launch now, put it on the back-burner or drop it altogether. It's integral and part of me, so not up for debate.

- I go back to previous ideas (have notebooks and notebooks to refer to) to see what I was thinking back then. I often want to feel as if I'm back in that moment with the improved knowledge and self-understanding that I have now. Frequently, I return to places I've lived and visited, whether alone or with a previous partner, to get a sense of my past through what I'm experiencing now...perhaps a little odd but it anchors me in the present and satisfies a need to know whether I've "grown" or what still needs to be accomplished.

- I hate to be controlled. Why is someone else's idea the best one for both of us? Who says so and why do I have to comply? The thought of being trapped is anathema.

- True partnership, long-term, built through respect and trust on equal terms is the only way as one cannot love without trust and one cannot live without love.

Naively, one ex-boyfriend said to me once, "I don't know why you can't just be like me?" and, "If you don't move those books, I'm leaving you". BTW they were my books in my house; he was the guest. I showed him where the door was after that last outburst. His response was, helpfully, "You'll always have trouble with relationships".

Does that help at all Major757league?

[MysString]

I'd add "I do not like being/feeling ignored" right behind this one. If I get a haircut, I don't need to hear that my husband loves it, but it's nice to hear that he noticed it. Also, one of the nicest things my husband can say to me is "Good point." because then I know he heard me, even if he ultimately disagrees with me.
I can definitely agree with that. Being/feeling ignored was the deal breaker in my last serious relationship, which was... about 3 years ago? Ha! Which leads me to express strong agreement with pretty much everything Trinity has said, especially this bit:
-I do not need to be in a relationship to feel complete.

Maybe it's because I'm happily single now and have been for some time, but I don't seem to have much desire to be in a romantic relationship of any kind at this point.

One big thing for me is that whatever man I might choose to yield myself to MUST be near as intelligent as I am, which has turned out to be seemingly impossible. It was easy to stop trying, if I was ever really trying in the first place. Yes, I realize how defeatist this might sound. I'm sure I could find a way around this attitude, but the truth is, I'm content.


Trinity, I'm just wondering, but why do you type yourself as an ENFP? Because if those listed preferences are indeed yours, you seriously sound like an INTJ.

[Elfrun]

Trinity, I'm just wondering, but why do you type yourself as an ENFP? Because if those listed preferences are indeed yours, you seriously sound like an INTJ.

Yeah, it's a silly amusement thing, I'm not ENFP I just get bored easily :rolleyes:

I'm definately INTJ! ;D





Trinity added to this post, 7 minutes and 25 seconds later...

Had enough of the stupidness, changing it back now ;)

[md21017md]

I can give you a view point from the other side if you will. I am an ExFP and my g/f is an INTJ (both of us over 40). We’ve been dating almost 2 years. It’s been a pretty interesting time. When I first met her, she was with a group of friends, I saw her, thought she was attractive. I was trying to figure an opening line; she in turn looked over and started chatting me up.
She was the first to say the “I love you”. And she made it exclusive by saying “you can’t see other women, well you can do what you want, but I will not be around for it”.
There were a few things she did pretty significant in the first year (I’ll leave out for anonymity) that almost made me walk. There are times when I question her faithfulness. I know this is partly me, but is partly her independent way. If some guy in a bar says something interesting, she’ll think nothing of turning around and talking for an hour about it – forgetting anyone else that might be with her.
She is incredibly self driven, and self supporting. She doesn’t ask for help, and on the rare occasions where she has, it’s seemed so out of place as to almost be shocking. She never tells me what to do, nor would she allow me to tell her, though she will offer and accept suggestions. Of course if you are making a suggestion, it better be a pretty damn good one and from an angle she hadn’t thought of.
Being an “E” I like to go out, socialize. She wants to be in bed by 9, up by 5. This was a hard point for me in the beginning. She likes to socialize, but more so with her friends than with mine. Not that she will not hang out with my friends, but it’s probably like her going to a party of strangers – she can only take it for so long.
I can do spontaneous things with her, but I do run the risk by not including her in the decision up front of making her feel like I am telling her what to do – dangerous territory, tread lightly. One day we were walking from my place to the car to get something. I sort of knew she was getting close to when she wanted to settle down, and I wanted to drag her out. After getting whatever from the car, arm in arm I led her away from home into town and she asked where we were going. I said lets go to the corner for a beer. She was not happy and let me know in no uncertain terms that she did not like being left out of the decision. I think because she had other plans, namely settling down for the night.
She is not as touch feely as I’d like. She will on occasion want an arm around her, or grab my hand as we walk somewhere. More likely she’ll want to curl up for 10-15 before bed then we go our separate sides of the bed to sleep. She’s not very “girly”. She will on occasion wear make up, but could as soon go all day from the gym in gym clothes. She is not very nurturing, but she will tell you when you’ve done something she likes.
Oh, when I come home I love to throw music on, this drives her crazy. After a hard day, she wants quiet. Friday after work, I am ready to go out and tear up the town – my way to recharge. She on the other hand is done with people and wants nothing more than to veg at home.
An argument with her consist of “you did blah blah blah and I am very upset because blah blah”. There is no (or rarely) yelling, I only remember 1 argument with a lot of emotional meltdown. Once she sort of hung up on me, then 5 min later called back and apologized.
All in all, she has been a great lady to date. She does have a track record of 2-5 years and done, so I don’t know if, when and how we’ll part ways, but then who really does? She will always be the measurement for any future women. I’ll probably never again be able to date the “typical” girly girl type. She is as much a friend as a lover, even though she drives me crazy from time to time.

[Jakalwarrior]

Things I have learned being married to an INTJ:

Listen to their thoughts, you are likely to be quized if they think you missed something. Ignoring their thoughts is as bad as murder.

Just because they appear to be perfectly happy doesnt mean you are safe and can ignore them. They still appreciate affection so long as it isn't sappy. Telling them you love them atleast once per day is welcome since you are probably hard to read as an INTJ (one of my wifes biggest complaints is that I am totally unreadable except for the stuff I put out on purpose).

TALK, talk, talk. You will never know whats on her mind if you don't talk to her. It can be dangerous to your well being if you let her spend days brooding and never check in on what its about. Besides that, nothing will capture her heart faster than having a confidant she feels is on her own level. INTJs tend to feel a little alone in the world. Female INTJs even more so since males often have a hard time thinking of them as friends because of horomones, and females often get on their nerves or bore them.

Somtimes they have an emotional girly moment, go along with it and bring out your own emotional side to comfort them. Just remember that other guys have to do this every day, you can stand it for a little while!

[md21017md]

Besides that, nothing will capture her heart faster than having a confidant she feels is on her own level.

I saw this the other day. She had a really hard day, and sent me a text about it, saying something like "I need you right now big time". When I saw her the next day and asked what was up, she said something like dealing with ass' and she really needed someone who understood her. I jokingly (to lighten the moment and make her laugh) said are you sure I really understand you? I hope she got the joke (meaning no one ever truely gets an INTJ, mabe not even them), she laughed and said "well you pretend you do better than anyone else".


She on the other hand says I can read her like a book. This is true to a point. I may be able to tell she is upset, but can not figure out the reason.

[curiousjane]

True story:

My INTJ mother resisted my ISTJ father's advances for quite awhile, leaving him in "the friend zone" for awhile. Poor dad. Such a lovesick puppy, confused because he was also a J and had made up his mind.

Then she started realizing ...

- I want an intelligent man.
- I want a man of strong character.
- I want a steadfast man.
- I don't want a partying man.
- I want somebody who likes me for exactly who I am.
- I want somebody I feel safe around.

In the end, she realized he understood her better than anyone else and was that man, so SHE prompted him to tell her where they were at in their relationship. They ended up engaged by the end of that conversation. And have been happily married for 29 years.

She's not touchy-feely. Almost cringes still if he sneaks up to hug or kiss her in front of other people, even though she's very affectionate, overall. Just isn't into PDA.

[Lucid]

I read all these responses and identified with almost everything mentioned in them. Which is nice. :) It's good to know that there are people who appreciate us, (and who consider an INTJ female to be integral to their plans for world domination).

Why do some men prefer to date women who are not INTJs? Of course I understand that preferences vary and everyone has their own taste or their own criteria of what they want in a relationship. But it seems like many INTJ women have trouble with relationships. Based on the responses I read, why would anyone not want to date an INTJ female?

Has anyone dated one and decided they didn't like it? Why?

[md21017md]

Of course I understand that preferences vary and everyone has their own taste or their own criteria of what they want in a relationship. But it seems like many INTJ women have trouble with relationships. Based on the responses I read, why would anyone not want to date an INTJ female

Has anyone dated one and decided they didn't like it? Why?

I can truly understand the desire for other types. I wish my g/f would be a bit more girly in that I like to see her with makeup, I like to see her in a mini skirt or a dress on the rare occasions she wears them - something other than black.

I wish she could dance. Not that I really can, but she is really bad, to the point of being embarrassing. She could care less about “special days” – Christmas, birthdays etc. She thinks nothing of doing things that could incite jealousy in the most harden. For example, she would think nothing of chatting up a guy in front of me and exchanging phone numbers – IF there was something interesting to it. It has been hard for me to adjust to this facet and I can see where some couldn’t. She thinks nothing of offering her house up to a guy friend that might need a place to stay for a few weeks.
If she is out of town on business, I do get a call from her, but I think it’s more for my benefit than hers; I think she could go for days without calling me. I also think she could also be perfectly happy seeing me 1-2 days a week. This is actually how things went when we first dated and it was amazing.
There are times I wish she was a little more touchy feely. There are times I wish she was more open with her thoughts. There are times I wish she were less demanding of perfection. There are times I wish she wanted to stay up and out with friends till 2 am.

[azelismia]

I think the best way to date a Intj female is carbon dating. Tree ring analysis is too intrusive.

[rwyatt365]

I've dated/married other types and I can say categorically that had I been more observant and definitely more selective I would NOT have chosen them for long-term relationships. Although I didn't have the advantage of MBTI, I would say that I tended to get mixed up with ISF's and IST's and the reults weren't pretty.

If only I had the knowledge and tools of Jung, or MBTI I might have found and married one of you luscious INTJ females.

Darn! :irked:

[Jakalwarrior]

I can truly understand the desire for other types. I wish my g/f would be a bit more girly in that I like to see her with makeup, I like to see her in a mini skirt or a dress on the rare occasions she wears them - something other than black.

I wish she could dance. Not that I really can, but she is really bad, to the point of being embarrassing. She could care less about “special days” – Christmas, birthdays etc. She thinks nothing of doing things that could incite jealousy in the most harden. For example, she would think nothing of chatting up a guy in front of me and exchanging phone numbers – IF there was something interesting to it. It has been hard for me to adjust to this facet and I can see where some couldn’t. She thinks nothing of offering her house up to a guy friend that might need a place to stay for a few weeks.
If she is out of town on business, I do get a call from her, but I think it’s more for my benefit than hers; I think she could go for days without calling me. I also think she could also be perfectly happy seeing me 1-2 days a week. This is actually how things went when we first dated and it was amazing.
There are times I wish she was a little more touchy feely. There are times I wish she was more open with her thoughts. There are times I wish she were less demanding of perfection. There are times I wish she wanted to stay up and out with friends till 2 am.

I couldn't date that INTJ! There is a LOT of variation within our type though. My wife does have the slight problem of not understanding why certain things bother me but she knows they do so she doesn't do them. We also haven't went a day without a talking in 2 years atleast. I chalk that up to pure variation though, I am a pretty strong INTJ, like 50/100/88/11 but I have no problem comprehending what will envoke certain feelings in others etc... and knowing how to act in a socially appropriate manner.

[azelismia]

I am a pretty strong INTJ, like 50/100/88/11 but I have no problem comprehending what will envoke certain feelings in others etc... and knowing how to act in a socially appropriate manner.


Jackal, that's not a strong intj at all. it's INTj

Strong NT but your J is weak. :)

[Jakalwarrior]

dangit! Im weak in the jedi force :( I thought it was typical to be strong in the N and T, with the I and J normally lagging behind? anywho, maybe that low J accounts for my empathy and social awareness? Ok then... im a weak or moderate INTj :D

[ElstonGunn]

Why do some men prefer to date women who are not INTJs? Of course I understand that preferences vary and everyone has their own taste or their own criteria of what they want in a relationship. But it seems like many INTJ women have trouble with relationships. Based on the responses I read, why would anyone not want to date an INTJ female?

Has anyone dated one and decided they didn't like it? Why?

I haven't dated one, but I haven't dated most other types, either.

I'm not be especially interested in dating an INTJ (theoretically) because I think she'd be too much like myself. I don't want another me. I'd rather have the heads to my tails, or the peanut butter to my jelly. Of course, if she was more sociable than me, and girly/feminine, and able and willing to make up for all the things that I suck at while letting me work at the things that I'm good at, then I wouldn't care what her type is. It seems like INTJs are less likely to do those kinds of things.


I think the best way to date a Intj female is carbon dating. Tree ring analysis is too intrusive.

It's not often that I actually laugh because of something I read, but this did it. Thanks for the chuckle.

[Lucid]

I think the best way to date a Intj female is carbon dating. Tree ring analysis is too intrusive.

I laughed!

I can truly understand the desire for other types. I wish my g/f would be a bit more girly in that I like to see her with makeup, I like to see her in a mini skirt or a dress on the rare occasions she wears them - something other than black....

Yes, I think I see your point. INTJs of both genders are probably sometimes difficult for non-INTJ types (and even fellow INTJs) to deal with.

I couldn't date that INTJ! There is a LOT of variation within our type though. My wife does have the slight problem of not understanding why certain things bother me but she knows they do so she doesn't do them. We also haven't went a day without a talking in 2 years atleast. I chalk that up to pure variation though, I am a pretty strong INTJ, like 50/100/88/11 but I have no problem comprehending what will envoke certain feelings in others etc... and knowing how to act in a socially appropriate manner.

Me too. But then, I also have a weak J.

[Homini Lupus]

I read all these responses and identified with almost everything mentioned in them. Which is nice. :) It's good to know that there are people who appreciate us, (and who consider an INTJ female to be integral to their plans for world domination).

Why do some men prefer to date women who are not INTJs? Of course I understand that preferences vary and everyone has their own taste or their own criteria of what they want in a relationship. But it seems like many INTJ women have trouble with relationships. Based on the responses I read, why would anyone not want to date an INTJ female?

Has anyone dated one and decided they didn't like it? Why?

Never really dated anybody but I know that people who is bot introverted and self confident scares statistically normal people. In pop culture people like that is almost always depicted as more or less potential serial killer, and tend to create in people around them the same feelings they bear, wich most of the times is discomfort.

[Rohsiph]

. . . if she was more sociable than me, and girly/feminine, and able and willing to make up for all the things that I suck at while letting me work at the things that I'm good at, then I wouldn't care what her type is. It seems like INTJs are less likely to do those kinds of things.

Why do you think this?

The way I understand it, an INTJ woman would be very willing to fill in for deficiencies--as long as her companion was equally willing to fill in for her deficiencies.

[ElstonGunn]

Why do you think this?

The way I understand it, an INTJ woman would be very willing to fill in for deficiencies--as long as her companion was equally willing to fill in for her deficiencies.

INTJ deficiencies seem to be more or less the same, regardless of gender.

I'm much more likely to be attracted to some kind of ISFJ or something more along those lines. I think the F is a very important in what I personally happen to find attractive. While it's certainly not impossible, I do have a hard time imagining a female INTJ (or a male one, for that matter) who is a very warm, caring, big-hearted, considerate, emotionally-open person who's more likely to care too much rather than not enough, and who "needs to be needed" rather than "needs you to shut up and leave me alone."

But if there is a female INTJ like that, then I wouldn't discount her based on type. I just think it's kind of like looking for a fat dude who loves to run in races and wins them all. Maybe there are a couple of them, but what are the odds of finding one?

[changos]

I still don't date an INTJ girl, in fact I don't get to date at all... gosh I have no friends, please somebody kill meee!!!!

I suspect of a girlfriend of mine being INTJ but never got a chance. I had a girlfriend when she was available, then it was the opposite... and its been like that since I got to know her.

Ok. I would love to date intj girls so I offer myself for a pilot study.

[Rohsiph]

ElstonGunn--

it's the wonderful thing about personality theory that individuals pretty much always defy, at least in some ways, general descriptions.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but I get the feeling you're underestimating the will of the average INTJ that would want to make a relationship an equal one.

As such, though, you do say

who "needs to be needed"

as though this is a primary quality you're after . . . to which I'd agree, very few INTJ's would ever display it (especially when at peak health).

[ElstonGunn]

it's the wonderful thing about personality theory that individuals pretty much always defy, at least in some ways, general descriptions.

Right. I mentioned ISFJs as the kind of person I might like, but they can just as easily be the kind of person who'd convince me not to waste my time and efforts on a relationship. The type descriptions don't describe any person, just the idea of that kind of person.

It would be a mistake to put too much stock into something as arbitrarily-defined as a personality type. I don't think it's breaking any laws if an INTJ is a nice, caring kind of person.


iI don't necessarily disagree with you, but I get the feeling you're underestimating the will of the average INTJ that would want to make a relationship an equal one.

Who says I want an equal relationship? Based on what comes to mind when I think of "equal," I don't really want equality (I'm probably not defining the word the same way you are, though). A coin with two heads sides isn't legal tender. But that's just my preference. I'm sure someone could just as easily come up with a snappy analogy about why it's better to have equality.

[Vivid]

I've read every post, but there's nothing I want to reply to. So I'll post my own preferences pertaining to the subject.

I would prefer to do something productive. A study session would be wonderful. My idea of an ideal date involves textbooks, notepads, and a cold glass of water in a quiet, well-lit room.
Also, I don't appreciate random compliments, although I'm too soft to come out and say it. They're awkward. Casual relationships are ideal.
I don't have a real list of rules or anything of that nature. As long as the other person can pick up on what I do or don't like and respect it, I'll give them plenty of time and return the favor.

[44sunsets]

There were a few things she did pretty significant in the first year (I’ll leave out for anonymity) that almost made me walk. There are times when I question her faithfulness. I know this is partly me, but is partly her independent way. If some guy in a bar says something interesting, she’ll think nothing of turning around and talking for an hour about it – forgetting anyone else that might be with her.

That was brilliant! Men who wonder what it's like to date an INTJ woman, md21017md has summed it up nicely!

I think INTJ women tend to be very faithful. They are less prone to being "seduced". I doubt any married man has to fear infidelity from his INTJ wife, unless he's so dull and boring that she has no choice but to get her sex/attraction fix from somewhere else. I've seen one case where an INTJ woman cheated on her husband by snogging a guy from work (who I suspect is an INTJ as well). They still regularly go out for lunch and so on. But she married young and I suspect her hubby is not a good match for her.


-I will not allow someone to make decisions for me, I have a mind of my own thanks.

This is a big thing with INTJ women. Men, if you don't know her well, be careful when preparing "surprises".

[jimmler]

I can give you a view point from the other side if you will. I am an ExFP and my g/f is an INTJ (both of us over 40). We’ve been dating almost 2 years. It’s been a pretty interesting time. When I first met her, she was with a group of friends, I saw her, thought she was attractive. I was trying to figure an opening line; she in turn looked over and started chatting me up.
She was the first to say the “I love you”. And she made it exclusive by saying “you can’t see other women, well you can do what you want, but I will not be around for it”.
There were a few things she did pretty significant in the first year (I’ll leave out for anonymity) that almost made me walk. There are times when I question her faithfulness. I know this is partly me, but is partly her independent way. If some guy in a bar says something interesting, she’ll think nothing of turning around and talking for an hour about it – forgetting anyone else that might be with her.
She is incredibly self driven, and self supporting. She doesn’t ask for help, and on the rare occasions where she has, it’s seemed so out of place as to almost be shocking. She never tells me what to do, nor would she allow me to tell her, though she will offer and accept suggestions. Of course if you are making a suggestion, it better be a pretty damn good one and from an angle she hadn’t thought of.
Being an “E” I like to go out, socialize. She wants to be in bed by 9, up by 5. This was a hard point for me in the beginning. She likes to socialize, but more so with her friends than with mine. Not that she will not hang out with my friends, but it’s probably like her going to a party of strangers – she can only take it for so long.
I can do spontaneous things with her, but I do run the risk by not including her in the decision up front of making her feel like I am telling her what to do – dangerous territory, tread lightly. One day we were walking from my place to the car to get something. I sort of knew she was getting close to when she wanted to settle down, and I wanted to drag her out. After getting whatever from the car, arm in arm I led her away from home into town and she asked where we were going. I said lets go to the corner for a beer. She was not happy and let me know in no uncertain terms that she did not like being left out of the decision. I think because she had other plans, namely settling down for the night.
She is not as touch feely as I’d like. She will on occasion want an arm around her, or grab my hand as we walk somewhere. More likely she’ll want to curl up for 10-15 before bed then we go our separate sides of the bed to sleep. She’s not very “girly”. She will on occasion wear make up, but could as soon go all day from the gym in gym clothes. She is not very nurturing, but she will tell you when you’ve done something she likes.
Oh, when I come home I love to throw music on, this drives her crazy. After a hard day, she wants quiet. Friday after work, I am ready to go out and tear up the town – my way to recharge. She on the other hand is done with people and wants nothing more than to veg at home.
An argument with her consist of “you did blah blah blah and I am very upset because blah blah”. There is no (or rarely) yelling, I only remember 1 argument with a lot of emotional meltdown. Once she sort of hung up on me, then 5 min later called back and apologized.
All in all, she has been a great lady to date. She does have a track record of 2-5 years and done, so I don’t know if, when and how we’ll part ways, but then who really does? She will always be the measurement for any future women. I’ll probably never again be able to date the “typical” girly girl type. She is as much a friend as a lover, even though she drives me crazy from time to time.

Wow, this sounds so much like me. I could end up talking with someone at a party or bar for hours about an interesting topic. I am lucky that I am married to an INTJ (like me!) who does not get jealous, he knows I am talking about stuff that interests me and is comfortable that at the end of the night, we go home together.

[md21017md]

who does not get jealous, he knows I am talking about stuff that interests me and is comfortable that at the end of the night, we go home together.

It has definately been an adjustment. I remember 1 time she started talking to some guy sitting beside us, pretty much spun around and for the most part ignored me the rest of the time we were there, except to turn around for the appitizer we got. They then exchanged contact info. I was pretty pissed, and came very close to getting up and walking out. It was not so much jealous as it was I felt a lack of respect for her. I confronted her the next morning - more so told her that it kind of hurt my feeling that she turned her back on me to chat some guy up. She apologized profusely. In the end they had some 3rd party friends that had some common interests and she wanted to help introduce them. She and I had also been drinking so she was probably pretty loaded, which is when she seems to get really chatty, with everyone around.

[QuickSilver]

That was brilliant! Men who wonder what it's like to date an INTJ woman, md21017md has summed it up nicely!

I think INTJ women tend to be very faithful. They are less prone to being "seduced". I doubt any married man has to fear infidelity from his INTJ wife, unless he's so dull and boring that she has no choice but to get her sex/attraction fix from somewhere else. I've seen one case where an INTJ woman cheated on her husband by snogging a guy from work (who I suspect is an INTJ as well). They still regularly go out for lunch and so on. But she married young and I suspect her hubby is not a good match for her.



This is a big thing with INTJ women. Men, if you don't know her well, be careful when preparing "surprises".


Well tell me this then: which type of woman do you think would be most:

a) Able =

b) Willing =

To cheat, and why?

[mkay]

I think the best way to date a Intj female is carbon dating. Tree ring analysis is too intrusive.

Lol.

I'm ENTP and was surprised to read about having so much in common with INTJ women, as described by Trinity and md21017md. I've been with my INTJ for 17 years, 14 of those married, and I'm still amazed that someone not only puts up with me but appreciates me for who I am. So it can happen.

[Seppuku Savant]

INTJ deficiencies seem to be more or less the same, regardless of gender.

I'm much more likely to be attracted to some kind of ISFJ or something more along those lines. I think the F is a very important in what I personally happen to find attractive. While it's certainly not impossible, I do have a hard time imagining a female INTJ (or a male one, for that matter) who is a very warm, caring, big-hearted, considerate, emotionally-open person who's more likely to care too much rather than not enough, and who "needs to be needed" rather than "needs you to shut up and leave me alone."

But if there is a female INTJ like that, then I wouldn't discount her based on type. I just think it's kind of like looking for a fat dude who loves to run in races and wins them all. Maybe there are a couple of them, but what are the odds of finding one?

I gravitate towards F types as well. I prefer a girl that's warm to even everything out. Though, most girls I've dated have a real problem with me not being able to show my feelings easily.





Minako added to this post, 1 minutes and 53 seconds later...

I think the best way to date a Intj female is carbon dating. Tree ring analysis is too intrusive.

LOL! Touche!

[MacGuffin]

INTJ women are a bit slow to warm up, but once you crack them open there's all this gooey wonderfulness to play with.

[Lucid]

INTJ women are a bit slow to warm up, but once you crack them open there's all this gooey wonderfulness to play with.

It's funny... that's what I keep hearing. You're like the 2nd person who's said that.

[MacGuffin]

It's funny... that's what I keep hearing. You're like the 2nd person who's said that.

It's true!

Though like Catholic girls, INTJs start much too late.

[Vagrant]

Non-serious answer: They don't put out.

Serious answer: They don't put out.

Ok, actually serious answer: They're very difficult to read, due to natural seclusion. They also keep a lot in their minds, and don't reveal information that might be vital to perpetuating a relationship. They're not your typical women -- very intelligent and not loud or emotional, which is daunting to a lot of men.

[Fryman58]

The 'feeling' & reassurance stuff predominantly.

-I do not need to be in a relationship to feel complete.
-I do not define myself by my relationships.
-I do not need to be reassured.
-I want mental stimulation.
-I want to feel comfortable with silence.
-I want a time for humor and a time for seriousness.
-I want to understand him, completely.
-I want him to spend alone time with his friends.
-I want us to talk to each other about problems we may be having, not our friends, they can't fix it!
-I will not complain for the sake of complaining, If I tell him a problem I want an answer not sympathy.
-I will not spend every minute of every day with my partner - I would kill him and end up in jail!
-I will not tell him what to do, he must be capable of making his own decisions.
-I will not accept a submissive or dominant relationship, it’s equal or not at all.
-I will not allow someone to make decisions for me, I have a mind of my own thanks.

Seriously, I don’t know how many of them are considered ‘normal’ or otherwise but it seems what I want is quite different to most of my female friends.

are you single or have a sister?

I don't think I have dated an intj yet, but the people I have dated these are the issues I've had to deal with...

[intellael]

I'd add "I do not like being/feeling ignored" right behind this one. If I get a haircut, I don't need to hear that my husband loves it, but it's nice to hear that he noticed it. Also, one of the nicest things my husband can say to me is "Good point." because then I know he heard me, even if he ultimately disagrees with me.

Exactly...

I am not necessarily debating to win you to my side. Rather, I am trying to get you to understand my point. With some of my past prospects (ha ha) they didn't understand the purpose. A deal breaker is the inability to grasp a metaphor or analogy. Excessively literal explanations are not a forte. Had they known how seductive a heated debate was to me...

Silly mortals...

[Lucid]

Non-serious answer: They don't put out.

Serious answer: They don't put out.

Ohhhh yes we do. You're just dating the wrong INTJ females.

Honestly, some of the most sexually driven and *intersting* females I have known are other INTJs.

[Elfrun]

are you single or have a sister?

I don't think I have dated an intj yet, but the people I have dated these are the issues I've had to deal with...

To answer; Permanently and she's not into the fellas.

Wow, old posts are funny. I don't think I'm intj anymore though, I've discovered my pee-ness ;D

INTJ women are a bit slow to warm up, but once you crack them open there's all this gooey wonderfulness to play with.

Dunno, seems true in most cases but methinks sometimes you crack open an intj and all you find is blood and guts.

Ohhhh yes we do. You're just dating the wrong INTJ females.

Honestly, some of the most sexually driven and *intersting* females I have knon are other INTJs.

Yup, I find that's very much a personal thing not type related.

[MacGuffin]

Dunno, seems true in most cases but methinks sometimes you crack open an intj and all you find is blood and guts.

Have you dated an INTJ woman?

Cause INTJ women and INTJ men are different breeds. Very different.

[Lucid]

Have you dated an INTJ woman?

Cause INTJ women and INTJ men are different breeds. Very different.

How so? Do elaborate.

[MacGuffin]

How so? Do elaborate.

Well, most INTJ women seem to be actually interested in getting laid for one.

[Lucid]

Well, most INTJ women seem to be actually interested in getting laid for one.

INTJ men aren't?

[BlackOp]

The funniest thing about INTJ women is they pretend not to be "girlie"....yet still want a strong, confident man. They will never admit they are trapped in the tower. I want to hug them...there is an undertow of isolation.

[Synamon]

The funniest thing about INTJ women is they pretend not to be "girlie"....yet still want a strong, confident man. They will never admit they are trapped in the tower. I want to hug them...there is an undertow of isolation.

We aren't pretending. INTJ women don't generally fit into the traditional "girlie" role. Why should that mean we wouldn't want a strong, confident man?

[Lucid]

We aren't pretending. INTJ women don't generally fit into the traditional "girlie" role. Why should that mean we wouldn't want a strong, confident man?

Exactly. The two aren't mutually exclusive. In fact, I think that our lack of girliness is possibly part of our reason for desiring strong confident men.

[Vagrant]

Ohhhh yes we do. You're just dating the wrong INTJ females.

Honestly, some of the most sexually driven and *intersting* females I have known are other INTJs.

No, I know. I was just being facetious.

Trust me, my last ex was an INTJ. We went at it like rabbits. Seriously. When I was over at her house, the only time we weren't going at it was when either her mom was home, or my penis was going through its recovery period (which we were working on to shorten).

Unfortunately, I wasn't as good at being sexy as she was.

[taintedkitty]

The funniest thing about INTJ women is they pretend not to be "girlie"....yet still want a strong, confident man. They will never admit they are trapped in the tower. I want to hug them...there is an undertow of isolation.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but I think that what you mean by girliness is equivalent to a damsel-in-distress attitude (submissive, emotionally hazardous, interested in frilly niceties etc). Furthermore, that this attitude desires an overtly masculine partner (a decisive, dominant hero type).

I do think there is a difference between the strength of character and confidence I desire in my partner, than that often dictated by societal norms.
I'm quite happy for my partner to be touchy-feely and most things usually considered feminine. What I am looking for is that elusive inner-strength and self-confidence. If this is what you're referring to, then yes. I agree with Synamon and Lucid. The two ideas are not mutually exclusive. I am not girly and I do desire such a partner.

I'm working off impressions here (no hard facts to back me up) but I do think that plenty of women are attracted to overtly confident men. I'm thinking of the sort that oozes confidence often with very little to back it up. Perhaps this is what you meant when you referred to a "strong, confident man". In that case, no. I am not girly, and I don't want that sort of partner.

[BlackOp]

I'm not going to pretend to speak for INJT women (note to self)...you know yourselves better than any man could. I wasnt speaking about overtly confident men who have very little to stand on....Can I still want to hug you? Please? :) If I came to your doorstep with a single rose...would you think I was a romantic chump? :p

[Storm]

The funniest thing about INTJ women is they pretend not to be "girlie"....yet still want a strong, confident man. They will never admit they are trapped in the tower. I want to hug them...there is an undertow of isolation.

What kind of person would want a weak, insecure partner? Are you implying that's what most men want in a woman? Gross.

[BlackOp]

What kind of person would want a weak, insecure partner? Are you implying that's what most men want in a woman? Gross.

No...you missed my point . I wasnt very clear as I was exhausted when I posted. I think an intelligent woman who has the confidence to be feminine is attractive. I'm not talking meek and blindly submissive.....

[Storm]

No...you missed my point . I wasnt very clear as I was exhausted when I posted. I think an intelligent woman who has the confidence to be feminine is attractive. I'm not talking meek and blindly submissive.....

Oh, ok. The "trapped in a tower" sort of implied that.

[BlackOp]

Oh, ok. The "trapped in a tower" sort of implied that.

The "tower" of their mind.......

[altoid]

I'm not going to pretend to speak for INJT women (note to self)...you know yourselves better than any man could. I wasnt speaking about overtly confident men who have very little to stand on....Can I still want to hug you? Please? :) If I came to your doorstep with a single rose...would you think I was a romantic chump? :p

No way! Even the INTJ ladies like a little romance now and then. ;)

[rara avis]

The one sitting in the corner listening to her friends prattle on only perking up when a significant subject is raised then switching off again when the latest evictee from BB is mentioned! ;D


What's BB? All I can think of is boingboing - have they upped the stakes over there?

If I came to your doorstep with a single rose...would you think I was a romantic chump? :p

I would think... Um, why's this guy bothering to come all the way to my doorstep, if he doesn't know me well enough to know that I like more unusual things than roses?
(And then I'd probably think I was being an overly harsh bitch, and trrrry to get over myself, and have a little discussion in my mind about how someone offering you a standard normal token of affection is really, really not an insult, maybe there's a reason it was chosen, particular to me...) Charming, right? :rolleyes:

[BlackOp]

I would think... Um, why's this guy bothering to come all the way to my doorstep, if he doesn't know me well enough to know that I like more unusual things than roses?
(And then I'd probably think I was being an overly harsh bitch, and trrrry to get over myself, and have a little discussion in my mind about how someone offering you a standard normal token of affection is really, really not an insult, maybe there's a reason it was chosen, particular to me...) Charming, right? :rolleyes:

BlackOp goes to workshop....starts building ladder for Rara. Stratches head then decides he needs more rope. The tower is taller than he thought.....:p (note to self)...just give giftcard. Flowers are SO 2005.

[Synamon]

What's BB? All I can think of is boingboing - have they upped the stakes over there?
I think she was referring to the reality TV show Big Brother.


I would think... Um, why's this guy bothering to come all the way to my doorstep, if he doesn't know me well enough to know that I like more unusual things than roses?
(And then I'd probably think I was being an overly harsh bitch, and trrrry to get over myself, and have a little discussion in my mind about how someone offering you a standard normal token of affection is really, really not an insult, maybe there's a reason it was chosen, particular to me...) Charming, right? :rolleyes:
LMAO I forget to even say thanks sometimes when my husband brings me home flowers. I'm too busy thinking "Did I forget our anniversary? Is it my birthday? What did he do? What does he want? Why did he choose pink ones?" We INTJ women are charmers.

[rara avis]

I like dahlias. And poppies.

But there's something about the dozen-long-stemmed-red-roses concept that makes me feel like there's something stuck in my throat... same with the whole princess-cut-platinum-setting-Tiffany-diamond-ring thing. gack.

Tip to anyone who's trying to get to me on a personal level - look at me on a personal level, recognize me as unusual individual.


And yeah, I've had people mention ivory towers around me before. My tower's freaking awesome on the inside, all the boys are dying to get in. :D

[Vagrant]

My tower's freaking awesome on the inside, all the boys are dying to get in.

The double entendre is deeply disturbing.

[rara avis]

BlackOp started it, analyze him and his tower fixation.

:laugh:


If it makes you feel better, I don't think I have any scalpels in my tower. Well, unless you count exacto knives, I do have some of those...

[Nyxa]

The 'feeling' & reassurance stuff predominantly.

-I do not need to be in a relationship to feel complete.
-I do not define myself by my relationships.
-I do not need to be reassured.
-I want mental stimulation.
-I want to feel comfortable with silence.
-I want a time for humor and a time for seriousness.
-I want to understand him, completely.
-I want him to spend alone time with his friends.
-I want us to talk to each other about problems we may be having, not our friends, they can't fix it!
-I will not complain for the sake of complaining, If I tell him a problem I want an answer not sympathy.
-I will not spend every minute of every day with my partner - I would kill him and end up in jail!
-I will not tell him what to do, he must be capable of making his own decisions.
-I will not accept a submissive or dominant relationship, it’s equal or not at all.
-I will not allow someone to make decisions for me, I have a mind of my own thanks.

Seriously, I don’t know how many of them are considered ‘normal’ or otherwise but it seems what I want is quite different to most of my female friends.

This pretty much says it all.

[Karamazov]

BlackOp started it, analyze him and his tower fixation.

You know....perhaps there is much more to this bedtime story narrative than I thought. One that leads astray into metaphor. Kind of like Disney and it's innuendo.

Anyway, I have yet to meet this INTJ woman in carbon-based reality.

[sybiam]

from what i read...INTJ women scares me a little...I don't know...I can imagine having a psychological fight with her...and then i get stabbed in the back...

I wouldn't be able to read her feelings as she wont be able to read mine....
It would be very difficult to live with that...

But i guess i'd love it once her shell is cracked...

[MacGuffin]

INTJ men aren't?

I'm about 43% kidding.

[Aaron Burr]

I wouldn't be able to read her feelings as she wont be able to read mine....

I am not sure how true that would be. I am very good at reading my INTJ friend's emotions. Often I see her acting how I would act if I felt a sad, happy, ect... In some ways it is creepy knowing I can read her so easily (because that means she can read me too).

But we are both INTJ women, and I have never met any INTJ men to see if it is the same.

[Lucid]

I am not sure how true that would be. I am very good at reading my INTJ friend's emotions. Often I see her acting how I would act if I felt a sad, happy, ect... In some ways it is creepy knowing I can read her so easily (because that means she can read me too).

But we are both INTJ women, and I have never met any INTJ men to see if it is the same.

People are usually able to read my emotions rather easily. And if they can't I'll tell them. This is also true of the INTJ men I know.

[rara avis]

People are usually able to read my emotions rather easily. And if they can't I'll tell them. This is also true of the INTJ men I know.


People have said I'm easy to read, but they only ever say it when I'm being skeptical. Which is not an unusual expression on my face. Usually they don't seem to know the half of what's really going on in here.

[tp6626]

Usually they don't seem to know the half of what's really going on in here.

But if the bloke asked you to tell them what you were feeling, and promised not to judge at all, would you let him in?

Or would you deploy evasive manoeuvres?

[floramacivor]

But if the bloke asked you to tell them what you were feeling, and promised not to judge at all, would you let him in?

Or would you deploy evasive manoeuvres?

It depends on how close I was to the person. Sure, the bloke might not judge - but would he understand what I was talking about? Unless I was pretty sure he'd understand, I'd deploy evasive maneuvers. It just depends on the situation and the person.

[Synamon]

But if the bloke asked you to tell them what you were feeling, and promised not to judge at all, would you let him in?

Or would you deploy evasive manoeuvres?

I would. If someone is genuinely interested, I'm an open book. :book:

[tp6626]

It depends on how close I was to the person. Sure, the bloke might not judge - but would he understand what I was talking about? Unless I was pretty sure he'd understand, I'd deploy evasive maneuvers. It just depends on the situation and the person.
I'm sure by asking, that he would want to understand, and by not judging, would not be reacting to what you tell him. Only listening, and seeing your point of view in a non-confrontational way.

I get the feeling that INTJ's are totally capable of doing this, more so than other types, but that they won't through fear of what they think the other will think of them. (If you know what I mean!?).

[rara avis]

But if the bloke asked you to tell them what you were feeling, and promised not to judge at all, would you let him in?

Or would you deploy evasive manoeuvres?

Completely depends. Sometimes people are just better off not knowing, sometimes it doesn't really matter, or would be counterproductive.

And unfortunately, sometimes when things are most intense and it would be most useful to be articulate, I can't quite pinpoint how I feel without some time to step back and reflect. Probably because I need to reason out the whys before I'll openly acknowledge what I feel.

GENERALLY, though, I don't mind being forthcoming. I'm not all that secretive.

Expressing what I think and what I feel are two different things. The thinking is definitely more easily accessible.





rara avis added to this post, 11 minutes and 52 seconds later...

I'm sure by asking, that he would want to understand, and by not judging, would not be reacting to what you tell him. Only listening, and seeing your point of view in a non-confrontational way.

I get the feeling that INTJ's are totally capable of doing this, more so than other types, but that they won't through fear of what they think the other will think of them. (If you know what I mean!?).

I think INTJs are not always the best, however, at being both engaged in a discussion of views and... erm, gentle. Takes some work on my part to be diplomatic, if I'm not just going to hold my tongue.

And when the topic is my own feeeelings, I may be pretty squeamish and so possibly ...unusually touchy about being questioned.

[Grace]

Yes. I agree with all of this. Plus, if someone wants to know what I really think and feel about things, they are going to have to be ready to take the time required. If I don't sense that the interest is genuine, I won't bother. I also won't bother if I don't respect the person. Usually I'll send up a weather balloon-type response. I am frequently amazed at how surprised some people are at the depth of my thought process. A test response gives them a way to back off gracefully if they choose.

[schwartzie]

I would. If someone is genuinely interested, I'm an open book. :book:

ditto. except add, "and not unsafe" (like ... "genuinely interested bloke" does not include any creepers on the bus.)

[lizzyb83]

Interesting question, and one I've had to grapple with most of my life. As an INTJ female who has been pretty unlucky in love, allow me to share some of my thoughts and experiences.

First, the experiences, which have certainly been enlightening. Just about every single man (perhaps boy is the more appropriate term here) I've dated has commented on the fact that I'm "so much smarter" than them, or that I'm "so brilliant". Several have point blank said that they never thought I would be interested in them because I am "fun, intelligent, and attractive" (if you think the latter is flattering, let me inform you that it's actually the kiss of death). I remember one particularly amusing first date during which we began discussing vaccines (not as bizarre as you'd think - we're both in the health profession), a conversation that ended with him consistently making self-deprecating comments because I knew something he did not, and because I used words that he could not define (like "vacuous"! really?). The evening culminated in him asking why I had to use such "complicated" words and then making a comment about how if I thought a certain opinion he had espoused was stupid, that I should just say so because "many people" feel that way. My response was, "Wow, we really need to work on your self-confidence."

Yeah...that was the first and last time we went out. As my male friends quickly informed me, the appropriate response to his ultimate self-diminution should have been, "Oh no, that's silly - you're SO intelligent!" But this very discord in our thought processes brings us to the discussion at hand - what about INTJ females makes dating them a unique experience? Hold on to your hats.

For one, many women express certain viewpoints about their projected behavior in a relationship but do not actually follow through with them. One clear example of this is the "non-clingy" factor. Many women with whom I've spoken talk about wanting their "independence" in a relationship, but end up chasing after/text-bombing/engagement ring shopping within weeks of the first date. When INTJ women say they aren't clingy, they mean it. We are truly self-sufficient, and if we aren't in constant contact, it doesn't mean we don't care - we're just used to having some alone time to mull over and analyze our circumstances to death :o).

The problem here is that we don't convey neediness in a relationship, and in my experience, that terrifies men because it means that (whether or not this is true), we can go off and find someone else whenever we get tired of the current arrangement. What they don't understand is that INTJ women put a great deal of thought into the relationships they sustain, and the people with whom they surround themselves. This means that we prefer the insightful over the frivolous, and that once we've found the former we are not going to risk losing that over something that's less likely to be as fulfilling.

The other point that ties in with this one is that conveying feelings does not come as easily to us as to other women. Again, this doesn't mean that we do not have feelings. Only that the expression of them is more challenging because we approach most all of our life decisions rationally and with (the illusion of?) control, using methods that could only be obfuscated by allowing tempestuous, unpredictable emotions to enter the picture.

The things that cause problems in potential relationships with INTJ women are not, in my opinion, inherent character flaws, but rather flaws in the understanding of INTJ women. The constant self-doubt I've found in most men, as well as the confusion when I don't behave in the way that "typical females" behave, has led to the demise of many a relationship (and an ego or two as well!).

[Lucid]

Interesting question, and one I've had to grapple with most of my life. As an INTJ female who has been pretty unlucky in love, allow me to share some of my thoughts and experiences.....

Lizzy, excellent post. I very much enjoyed it and I identified with a lot of what you had to say. I've had many of the same experiences.

And I'd really like to chalk it up to, "Well, it's just because we're too awesome for most men to wrap their little minds around!" But that seems like such an easy answer and such a flattering, desirable answer that I can't help but doubt that it is not the whole problem, if it's the problem at all.

I have no reason to think it's wrong (and several reasons to think that maybe it is the case), other than the fact that it just seems to flattering to INTJ women to be true.

[demaugustus]

The most passionate chemistry I've ever had was with an INTJ woman. I wish it could have lasted longer. She took me down a few notches because my ego can be off the charts some times - I didn't mind because the way she did it was so dam sexy and cute. To a lot of people her directness and "coldness" was a turn off, but to me it was awesome because here was a woman who could speak my language. My favorite personalities in a woman, from what I have experienced, are INTJ's and developed XNFP's.

[schwartzie]

hm... I appreciate Lizzie's longish thoughtful post because the viewpoint is so different from mine.

Even tho there are very different social expectations and training for males and females, I suspect that both genders of intjs have that weird mix of unreasonable self-confidence and introverted thinking that, at best, causes us to moderate behavior and at worst (usually during adolescence) gets us emotionally and socially damaged.

I haven't had the kind of experiences you describe; probably that's because I don't ever attract, much less become an intimate of men who aren't terrifyingly bright INTxs in the first place. For me, and I think most INTxs I've known, the appearance of self confidence is situational. I am extremely self confident in certain settings; much less so in others. I think that's been true of the males intxs I've known, too.

[Storm]

Wonderful post Lizzy, but I'd like to add to it.

I think a big obstacle INTJ women have to overcome in relationships (and perhaps INTJ men too), is communicating emotions effectively. Relationships are incredibly, (at times overwhelmingly), emotional, especially to an INTJ. Many men expect women to naturally communicate their emotions and steer the "emotional ship" of the relationship, so to speak. Well, this is the INTJs weakness since our feeling function is introverted and eclipsed by the extroverted thinking function. This tendency can result in no one steering, emotions not getting talked about, and the relationship gets battered about in the waves of bottled up emotions.

[rara avis]

I think a big obstacle INTJ women have to overcome in relationships (and perhaps INTJ men too), is communicating emotions effectively. Relationships are incredibly, (at times overwhelmingly), emotional, especially to an INTJ. Many men expect women to naturally communicate their emotions and steer the "emotional ship" of the relationship, so to speak. Well, this is the INTJs weakness since our feeling function is introverted and eclipsed by the extroverted thinking function. This tendency can result in no one steering, emotions not getting talked about, and the relationship gets battered about in the waves of bottled up emotions.

In the rare situation where I actually feel personally involved in a relationship with someone, I can become painfully aware that I may... have some emotional maturity issues. Only natural considering that I've spent so many years instinctively smoothing down emotional reactions in favor of rationale.

When it comes to something new I'm interested in, I'm often inclined to drive right in with focus and enthusiasm, to nearly binge on whatever it is. I'm like this with particular foods, books, styles, hobbies... all kinds of topics. When the topic is a relationship, a person... ick, the emotional aspects that come along for the ride- varying in size/importance/intensity, some on display for or up for analysis by the other person -set me off balance, make me very uneasy and even embarrassed, flustered.

In as much as I'm even conscious of my sensibilities where other are concerned, I don't really know how I'm supposed to handle them. I usually do think I'm be better off holding my tongue, waiting to see what sticks, what fades.

[aqua9air]

Wonderful post Lizzy, but I'd like to add to it.

I think a big obstacle INTJ women have to overcome in relationships (and perhaps INTJ men too), is communicating emotions effectively. Relationships are incredibly, (at times overwhelmingly), emotional, especially to an INTJ. Many men expect women to naturally communicate their emotions and steer the "emotional ship" of the relationship, so to speak. Well, this is the INTJs weakness since our feeling function is introverted and eclipsed by the extroverted thinking function. This tendency can result in no one steering, emotions not getting talked about, and the relationship gets battered about in the waves of bottled up emtions.

Unfortunately, emotions drain me right the way, especially negative ones.
Then I would want to stay alone to recharge. :)
lol

[rara avis]

Hm... yes, for my part, I usually tend to conclude that I'm better off back in my shell, recharging, rebuilding & structuring things.

[ChristopherL]

Can someone (preferably a female) tell me a tell tale sign of an intj female? I'm pretty sure I never dated one but I would like to know when I have one of those rare intj females in my grasp because I think I would never let her go whether she be a friend or a lover. I think a female like me would be essential to my plans for world domination or whatever I plan to dominate this week. Haha
They don't act like women.

[Zhen]

I like dahlias. And poppies.

But there's something about the dozen-long-stemmed-red-roses concept that makes me feel like there's something stuck in my throat... same with the whole princess-cut-platinum-setting-Tiffany-diamond-ring thing. gack.

Tip to anyone who's trying to get to me on a personal level - look at me on a personal level, recognize me as unusual individual.


And yeah, I've had people mention ivory towers around me before. My tower's freaking awesome on the inside, all the boys are dying to get in. :D
yeah it's really strange what's the thing with men and roses? maybe society has conditioned them to believe it is the ultimate romantic flower? I agree- I also don't share the fascination with the blue green box...although it seems to have effect on most females I know...maybe INTJ women universally hate the norm?

yeah dahlias with their symmetry are so cool...and poppies with their papery fragility...I like orchids and cornflowers too. I was asked off hand the other day what flowers do I like and I couldn't even think of anything except "I hate roses" at the time...lol.

it's kind of sad...we should be more grateful!!! LOL

[Lucid]

yeah it's really strange what's the thing with men and roses? maybe society has conditioned them to believe it is the ultimate romantic flower? I agree- I also don't share the fascination with the blue green box...although it seems to have effect on most females I know...maybe INTJ women universally hate the norm?

yeah dahlias with their symmetry are so cool...and poppies with their papery fragility...I like orchids and cornflowers too. I was asked off hand the other day what flowers do I like and I couldn't even think of anything except "I hate roses" at the time...lol.

it's kind of sad...we should be more grateful!!! LOL

One flower is pretty much as good as the next as far as I'm concerned. They're pretty for a bit and then they die. If someone is going to spend money to get me something I'd rather have something that would last longer, or at least be more tangibly enjoyable. But flowers are ok I guess. I'd be happy to receive them.

[kazzamunga]

The 'feeling' & reassurance stuff predominantly.

-I do not need to be in a relationship to feel complete.
-I do not define myself by my relationships.
-I do not need to be reassured.
-I want mental stimulation.
-I want to feel comfortable with silence.
-I want a time for humor and a time for seriousness.
-I want to understand him, completely.
-I want him to spend alone time with his friends.
-I want us to talk to each other about problems we may be having, not our friends, they can't fix it!
-I will not complain for the sake of complaining, If I tell him a problem I want an answer not sympathy.
-I will not spend every minute of every day with my partner - I would kill him and end up in jail!
-I will not tell him what to do, he must be capable of making his own decisions.
-I will not accept a submissive or dominant relationship, it’s equal or not at all.
-I will not allow someone to make decisions for me, I have a mind of my own thanks.

Seriously, I don’t know how many of them are considered ‘normal’ or otherwise but it seems what I want is quite different to most of my female friends.

you totally took the words right out my mouth :) how refreshing!

[Zhen]

One flower is pretty much as good as the next as far as I'm concerned. They're pretty for a bit and then they die. If someone is going to spend money to get me something I'd rather have something that would last longer, or at least be more tangibly enjoyable. But flowers are ok I guess. I'd be happy to receive them.


I agree...flowers are not practical. But if given, "not a rose" is nice because at least you know there was some thought that went in in regards to your individuality...

[schwartzie]

I love these boys. Sooo pungent:

To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

[dalidaisy]

I'd rather have flowers planted in my yard than cut down for me, but this is just a personal preference...

Psst, I like daisies!

[lizzyb83]

Lizzy, excellent post. I very much enjoyed it and I identified with a lot of what you had to say. I've had many of the same experiences.

And I'd really like to chalk it up to, "Well, it's just because we're too awesome for most men to wrap their little minds around!" But that seems like such an easy answer and such a flattering, desirable answer that I can't help but doubt that it is not the whole problem, if it's the problem at all.

I have no reason to think it's wrong (and several reasons to think that maybe it is the case), other than the fact that it just seems to flattering to INTJ women to be true.

Thank you, Lucid. I completely understand your hesitation with accepting that morsel of "conventional wisdom". I'm sure that it's not the whole problem, but I think the rest of the puzzle may have to do with the Achilles' heel of our personality types, to which many of the other posters have alluded; the heel being our inability to manage the emotional component of the relationship. Thus, in situations faced by other women, we may perhaps not respond with the right phrases, or the right body language to reinforce the developing bond and thus, lead to the other person's withdrawal.

I'm sure there are plenty of other factors as well, though I confess I have yet to understand them.





lizzyb83 added to this post, 4 minutes and 52 seconds later...

hm... I appreciate Lizzie's longish thoughtful post because the viewpoint is so different from mine.

Even tho there are very different social expectations and training for males and females, I suspect that both genders of intjs have that weird mix of unreasonable self-confidence and introverted thinking that, at best, causes us to moderate behavior and at worst (usually during adolescence) gets us emotionally and socially damaged.

I haven't had the kind of experiences you describe; probably that's because I don't ever attract, much less become an intimate of men who aren't terrifyingly bright INTxs in the first place. For me, and I think most INTxs I've known, the appearance of self confidence is situational. I am extremely self confident in certain settings; much less so in others. I think that's been true of the males intxs I've known, too.

Interesting that we have not had the same experiences, but to clarify - many of these men have in fact been bright and insightful, which is what frustrates me the most. Indeed, I could not be attracted to men who are not (and would not get involved with them in the first place). The issue is a lack of self-confidence, which is often times wholly seperate from the true intelligence of the person in question. To complicate this even further, the appearance of self-confidence, as you put it, is often present in many other settings (non-date related).





lizzyb83 added to this post, 4 minutes and 6 seconds later...

Wonderful post Lizzy, but I'd like to add to it.

I think a big obstacle INTJ women have to overcome in relationships (and perhaps INTJ men too), is communicating emotions effectively. Relationships are incredibly, (at times overwhelmingly), emotional, especially to an INTJ. Many men expect women to naturally communicate their emotions and steer the "emotional ship" of the relationship, so to speak. Well, this is the INTJs weakness since our feeling function is introverted and eclipsed by the extroverted thinking function. This tendency can result in no one steering, emotions not getting talked about, and the relationship gets battered about in the waves of bottled up emotions.

I completely agree! I think this definitely contributes to the problem. Furthermore, it's all about conveying the emotions in certain ways - not that non-INTJs work by the book in terms of the way they talk, the things they say, or their body language, but I think it just comes naturally to them and they "know" what to do, whereas figuring out how to do this and then executing the task is just exhausting for us. Or maybe I'm only speaking for myself now ;D

[rulzal]

all the above are relevant and perspectively inspiring. no one needs to feel whole by being with another person. but love ccan be needed, wanted and taken for advantage. your not weak for yearning for it, but just coming to terms that there is more to life than achieving self serving goals. no woman or man is the same. Even if mentally labelled in the same category or grade or category. i dont think ethier should be done. go for what you like! do what you want! but try to realise that who or what you date isn't the big picture. what is, is that you CARE or are attracted to eachother and that you can work things out, be there for each other, meet each others needs and not be overly selective. shes an entp or hes an intj is as predjiduce as shes coloured. male or female if you like eachother go for it a relationship is a challenge, a priverlige not something to be over rated or to be taken for granted.

[Zilal]

I think one of the big issues for me and relationships is that I'm not "needy" in the way you mentioned. On paper, I suppose I'm the perfect girlfriend... I don't nag, don't get all emotional and irrational, I'm low-maintenance, I'm thoughtful, I don't get jealous easily, I appreciate when a guy wants to go out with his friends, etc. But I think that while each of these might sound great to a guy by itself, all together they just paint this "I don't need you" picture that's both less attractive and probably less feminine-seeming than what a guy really wants.

And I'm virtually certain that the reason I don't get asked out much is because I have this "I don't want you near me" shield up all the time, heh. I'm quite conscious of projecting a technically nice but very distant attitude. It's a problem. I'm innately suspicious of other people but of course I do want to meet people, have relationships, etc.

[dalidaisy]

I think one of the big issues for me and relationships is that I'm not "needy" in the way you mentioned. On paper, I suppose I'm the perfect girlfriend... I don't nag, don't get all emotional and irrational, I'm low-maintenance, I'm thoughtful, I don't get jealous easily, I appreciate when a guy wants to go out with his friends, etc. But I think that while each of these might sound great to a guy by itself, all together they just paint this "I don't need you" picture that's both less attractive and probably less feminine-seeming than what a guy really wants.

And I'm virtually certain that the reason I don't get asked out much is because I have this "I don't want you near me" shield up all the time, heh. I'm quite conscious of projecting a technically nice but very distant attitude. It's a problem. I'm innately suspicious of other people but of course I do want to meet people, have relationships, etc.

This is true of me as well. And guys say they want this type of girl, but when they get one, they change their tune & start asking for the opposite. It is so frustrating. A guy will fall in love with me within the span of like, two weeks, because of the traits Zilal mentioned. But, then, months later they get all needy & want me to nag them, want me to be emotional & jealous, want to be with me all the time. Then I either have to make adjustments or end the relationship. I'm finding that dating just isn't worth the time or effort anymore.

Oh, and I have found that the "I don't want you near me shield" that you speak of only attracts jerks.

[rulzal]

im not a jerk (i have issues) but im not how you put it "dont come near me attitude. some days i like space others id be all over you. i take into consideration your own feelings and try to alter my attitudes. maybe your "partners" you attract are needy. maybe after some point you become... can i say bored with what you have in front of you. or maybe just plane not compatible. love is complicated. some people grow to love someone more than they liked that person when they met. some fall straight away becuase they believe they are in love. EG. love and sex (first few weeks) is just like saying i love haing sex WITH you. i beleive love selfless. you give without expectation of receiving, its unconditional. i put up the sheild because id lke to find someone who aren't bipolar like the recent trend ive attracted lol.

[WayBehind]

I think one of the big issues for me and relationships is that I'm not "needy" in the way you mentioned. On paper, I suppose I'm the perfect girlfriend... I don't nag, don't get all emotional and irrational, I'm low-maintenance, I'm thoughtful, I don't get jealous easily, I appreciate when a guy wants to go out with his friends, etc. But I think that while each of these might sound great to a guy by itself, all together they just paint this "I don't need you" picture that's both less attractive and probably less feminine-seeming than what a guy really wants.

And I'm virtually certain that the reason I don't get asked out much is because I have this "I don't want you near me" shield up all the time, heh. I'm quite conscious of projecting a technically nice but very distant attitude. It's a problem. I'm innately suspicious of other people but of course I do want to meet people, have relationships, etc.

Damn, I wish I lived near Rhode Island.

[brainysmurf]

How do INTJ women differ from "normal" women?

-INTJ women place more value on objective truth, facts and logic as opposed to feelings and subjective impressions.

My type is a romantic match for the INTJ; beyond the theory this is apparent in the practical sense.

In my experience, INTJ's [especially women] are very often curious about what I have to say, almost always smiling and laughing at the jokes I make and whatever "spin" I happen to be putting on reality at the moment. This leads to a high probability that any INTJ in my immediate vicinity will be a happy INTJ at any given moment in time.

Sometimes, with regard to *really* enjoying the humor, sparkle and intimacy of life, it seems like INTJ's should come with a label that says: "batteries not included", but an ENTP can be the battery that really brings the INTJ to life.

INTJ's often tell me "I feel smarter when I'm talking to you" [not in the sense of comparing us; instead indicating a joint rise in ability]; I think that what they're really describing is the synergy between our different ways of examining the world.

I have excellent stamina when it comes to exciting interactions, so I usually find it expedient to remember that INTJ's need "down-time" to recover their energy before we continue moving onward and upward to bigger and better things.

With regard to intimacy, the line between intellect and sex becomes pleasantly blurred as flirtatious conversation can easily escalate from a playful verbal wrestling match to a playful physical activity of a different sort.

When I contrast this with my experiences with other women, I note that:

- Other women do not often have the intellectual depth that an INTJ woman is likely to be able to offer. ENTP's often have difficulty finding conversational partners with sufficient ability and a smart, inquisitive INTJ (if you can coax her out of her shell) is a breath of fresh air.

- INTJ women can retain rationality when discussing controversial topics while other females might not.

- An INTJ woman will likely demonstrate excellent ability to predict and follow-through on obligations. When combined with very strong decision making ability, the result is a highly dependable partner who can be trusted with almost any pursuit.

One of the most significant challenges of being an ENTP is that very often people aren't quite sure if you're "pulling a fast one"; they're hesitant to trust you (even if you're being completely honest) because they're always afraid that you're going to outfox them.

INTJ women are great because, although inherently rather cautious, if given enough time they will always be smart enough to figure out what's going on and can therefore learn that you are honest. This allows the building of mutual trust and respect.

Quicksilver, you sound like every INTJ-woman's Mr. Perfect! The guys I meet always complain that I'm too blunt, not impulsive/spontanious enough, do things too much by the book, that I'm too much into deep intelectual discussions/bad at mindless small-talk... I found it very refreshing to read your statement! It makes me optimistic that there are guys out there who value my INTJ-qualities. You don't happen to be single, do you? ;-)

[Kisai]

Damn, I wish I lived near Rhode Island.


One of the bad points about the Internet. See wonderful things. Meet wonderful new people. Realize that you're 3000 miles from them.

[dalidaisy]

One of the bad points about the Internet. See wonderful things. Meet wonderful new people. Realize that you're 3000 miles from them.

So true... :cry:

[rwyatt365]

ATo view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.! INTJs in angst - it's a horrible sight. :cry:

(and I concur.)

[Kisai]

Hmmm... Maybe we need to organize an INTJ convention...

[dalidaisy]

A naked one?

[rara avis]

Oh, and I have found that the "I don't want you near me shield" that you speak of only attracts jerks.

I am legendary for attracting men who possess both a weird aggression and near total lack of social skills. Crazy or stupid, or both.

It's like the way PCP makes people think they can fly or lift a car. There's a certain kind of crazy that encourages certain guys approach me, completely oblivious to my full-body cold shoulder.

That's where I get pick-up lines like, "You're pretty. You look like my cousin."

Men with a normal sense of self-preservation stay clear. :rolleyes:

[Algol]

I am legendary for attracting men who possess both a weird aggression and near total lack of social skills. Crazy or stupid, or both.

It's like the way PCP makes people think they can fly or lift a car. There's a certain kind of crazy that encourages certain guys approach me, completely oblivious to my full-body cold shoulder.

That's where I get pick-up lines like, "You're pretty. You look like my cousin."

Men with a normal sense of self-preservation stay clear. :rolleyes:

Stuff like this makes me glad I am not a woman. Ughhh. You have my condolences.

[Pcell]

I think one of the big issues for me and relationships is that I'm not "needy" in the way you mentioned. On paper, I suppose I'm the perfect girlfriend... I don't nag, don't get all emotional and irrational, I'm low-maintenance, I'm thoughtful, I don't get jealous easily, I appreciate when a guy wants to go out with his friends, etc. But I think that while each of these might sound great to a guy by itself, all together they just paint this "I don't need you" picture that's both less attractive and probably less feminine-seeming than what a guy really wants.

And I'm virtually certain that the reason I don't get asked out much is because I have this "I don't want you near me" shield up all the time, heh. I'm quite conscious of projecting a technically nice but very distant attitude. It's a problem. I'm innately suspicious of other people but of course I do want to meet people, have relationships, etc.


I have this problem, too. In my last relationship the guy I was with thought I "neglected him" or "didn't care for him" because I wasn't being needy or catering to his whims all the time. It's really frustrating being with someone who doesn't understand the way we INTJ women are.

[Vagrant]

People are usually able to read my emotions rather easily. And if they can't I'll tell them. This is also true of the INTJ men I know.

Most people have a tough time reading my emotions for some strange reason. Only my best friends (an ESTJ and an ENFP) can pick up on it (and pinpoint it). I'm guessing the reason is because my face never changes, but my behaviors do -- so you have to know my behaviors and recognize when I'm doing something different.

[Lucid]

I am legendary for attracting men who possess both a weird aggression and near total lack of social skills. Crazy or stupid, or both.

It's like the way PCP makes people think they can fly or lift a car. There's a certain kind of crazy that encourages certain guys approach me, completely oblivious to my full-body cold shoulder.

Me too! But mine are either crazy and brilliant (but really, REALLY crazy) or just stupid. Oh, or they do it on bets I've found! Boy, that was such an ego boost to find that someone was talking to me on a bet. Woot!

[Kisai]

Me too! But mine are either crazy and brilliant (but really, REALLY crazy) or just stupid. Oh, or they do it on bets I've found! Boy, that was such an ego boost to find that someone was talking to me on a bet. Woot!

Wow. That sounds like that person watches a lot of sitcoms.

[AliTree]

i would hate to date me.
i'm sure most everyone feels the same way.

[MacGuffin]

Hmmm... Maybe we need to organize an INTJ convention...

You all are large enough to do meetups.

[amberlinen]

If I came to your doorstep with a single rose

I would prefer a common daisy over a rose. I can certainly appreciate the rich color and delicate design of a rose aesthetically, but it's too complicated for my emotionl center to process. To symbolize my feelings, something simple like a few white petals and a bright sunlit center would be more accurate.

[benvdespot]

I think one of the big issues for me and relationships is that I'm not "needy" in the way you mentioned. On paper, I suppose I'm the perfect girlfriend... I don't nag, don't get all emotional and irrational, I'm low-maintenance, I'm thoughtful, I don't get jealous easily, I appreciate when a guy wants to go out with his friends, etc. But I think that while each of these might sound great to a guy by itself, all together they just paint this "I don't need you" picture that's both less attractive and probably less feminine-seeming than what a guy really wants.


Yeah, although I think it may be complicated than mere 'neediness,' in that neediness is only one part of the validation men seem to want, and a part many clearly feel ambivalent about-- why else would they claim they don't like it? I've been the needy one before, in a passionate but clearly unequal relationship, and it was ugly because not only was I being buried by an avalanche of emotions, I knew that I was being diminished by them and turned the resultant anger on myself. But one thing I've never been good at, in good relationships or bad, is validating others' ideas and feelings, and since I don't require too much validation or emotional support myself, common relationship models don't seem to work that well for me. It's like I don't offer the support that seems to be the glue for most relationships.

And as a sort of related point, when I was about 23, I was told by a guy that while I was everything that he'd said he wanted-- smart, witty, sexy (back then, anyway)-- the truth was that my friend (ENFP, I believe, and exceptionally beautiful & pleasing) was just so much easier to be with. So I was angry, offended (not wrt my friend, who valued our friendship more than his crush), and generally prickly about the whole situation while I turned it over in my head for a while... how was I supposed to react to this statement, which basically articulated what I'd already noticed through college & after? Softening my attitude would certainly attract more men, but they were bound to be the wrong kind of man anyway. I'm not someone who usually smooths things over socially, either (professionally, yes), so why look for people who would expect it? Basically, I decided that while I could be a bit gentler in manner to avoid scaring people off, I could not and would not try to make myself less challenging, because doing so would slowly strangle me anyway. Wish I could say that all ended beautifully & I found a soul mate who appreciated me as offered, but it hasn't happened so far. But I'm not trapped in the dull resentment of a too-conventional relationship, either, so maybe that's enough.

[seagael]

Can someone (preferably a female) tell me a tell tale sign of an intj female? I'm pretty sure I never dated one but I would like to know when I have one of those rare intj females in my grasp because I think I would never let her go whether she be a friend or a lover. I think a female like me would be essential to my plans for world domination or whatever I plan to dominate this week. Haha

I'm an INTJ woman. If your looking for people like me(probably like yourself) I would suggest looking in the places we're most likely to be. I'm not sure there really is a tell tale sign, just a lot of subtelties to the stranger-observer. But, I hang out in bookstores, libraries, bookstores, and I'm majoring in chemistry and political science at an Honors College. Anywhere smart people might be. Also, of course, on the internet, but thats not very helpful.
I know one other INTJ female(my best friend) and we share a few barely noticable, but observable, traits. We are both quiet, for the most part, but we aren't really shy around our peers and we're quick to correct something or someone we think is stupid. we're also both in honors courses and AP Chemistry. we both read a lot, too. Also, unlike a lot of our higher echelon peers, we have a blatant disregard for authority if we don't see a reason for us(personally) to abide by certain rules.
In school, you can identify us as the "smart, opinionated, chics that read alot, look bored most of the time, don't look like they pay attention, that do thier own thing, and always have some kind of contraband(ipods, cellphones, etc.) in class."
But, I will warn you, an INTJ woman can be dangerous to certain plans of yours. You're just more competition for world domination and it's typically best to eliminate competition. Hehe.





seagael added to this post, 11 minutes and 9 seconds later...

How do INTJ women differ from "normal" women?

-INTJ women place more value on objective truth, facts and logic as opposed to feelings and subjective impressions.


My type is a romantic match for the INTJ; beyond the theory this is apparent in the practical sense.


In my experience, INTJ's [especially women] are very often curious about what I have to say, almost always smiling and laughing at the jokes I make and whatever "spin" I happen to be putting on reality at the moment. This leads to a high probability that any INTJ in my immediate vicinity will be a happy INTJ at any given moment in time.

Sometimes, with regard to *really* enjoying the humor, sparkle and intimacy of life, it seems like INTJ's should come with a label that says: "batteries not included", but an ENTP can be the battery that really brings the INTJ to life.

INTJ's often tell me "I feel smarter when I'm talking to you" [not in the sense of comparing us; instead indicating a joint rise in ability]; I think that what they're really describing is the synergy between our different ways of examining the world.

I have excellent stamina when it comes to exciting interactions, so I usually find it expedient to remember that INTJ's need "down-time" to recover their energy before we continue moving onward and upward to bigger and better things.

With regard to intimacy, the line between intellect and sex becomes pleasantly blurred as flirtatious conversation can easily escalate from a playful verbal wrestling match to a playful physical activity of a different sort.



When I contrast this with my experiences with other women, I note that:

- Other women do not often have the intellectual depth that an INTJ woman is likely to be able to offer. ENTP's often have difficulty finding conversational partners with sufficient ability and a smart, inquisitive INTJ (if you can coax her out of her shell) is a breath of fresh air.

- INTJ women can retain rationality when discussing controversial topics while other females might not.

- An INTJ woman will likely demonstrate excellent ability to predict and follow-through on obligations. When combined with very strong decision making ability, the result is a highly dependable partner who can be trusted with almost any pursuit.




One of the most significant challenges of being an ENTP is that very often people aren't quite sure if you're "pulling a fast one"; they're hesitant to trust you (even if you're being completely honest) because they're always afraid that you're going to outfox them.

INTJ women are great because, although inherently rather cautious, if given enough time they will always be smart enough to figure out what's going on and can therefore learn that you are honest. This allows the building of mutual trust and respect.

Where are men like you????

[lizzyb83]

I am legendary for attracting men who possess both a weird aggression and near total lack of social skills. Crazy or stupid, or both.

It's like the way PCP makes people think they can fly or lift a car. There's a certain kind of crazy that encourages certain guys approach me, completely oblivious to my full-body cold shoulder.

That's where I get pick-up lines like, "You're pretty. You look like my cousin."

Men with a normal sense of self-preservation stay clear. :rolleyes:

Amazing. This post made me laugh out loud, mainly because I have the exact same problem. Patients with substance-induced psychosis...that's truly the best way to describe it. Among the craziest things I've heard:
::complete stranger grabs my face out of the blue:: "Where did you get those big beautiful eyes?"
"I was just looking for an ATM. Are you an ATM?"
(scrubbed in during a case, in the operating room) "Can I take a picture of your eyes? It's ::errr:: for a lecture..." (after asking him what the lecture would be about) "Uhh.......::awkward silence:: I'll send you the picture!"

[rara avis]

I agree...flowers are not practical. But if given, "not a rose" is nice because at least you know there was some thought that went in in regards to your individuality...

Yes. It is a frivolous gesture, in a way - and the unnecessariness [is that a word?] of it can be what makes it special.

However, doing it in a way that seems like a rote gesture, a mimic of every S male who marches into the Safeway floral area on his societally prescribed mission... that could kind of kill the value, a little bit.

::complete stranger grabs my face out of the blue::

OH MY GOD!
This is why you should carry a rolled newspaper with you at all times.

:whip:

NO! Bad monkey!!

DOWN! No Touching!

[lizzyb83]

OH MY GOD!
This is why you should carry a rolled newspaper with you at all times.


Or a can of Mace...:flirt:

[MacGuffin]

This is why you should carry a rolled newspaper with you at all times.


Or a can of Mace...:flirt:

Pfft. Weapons! You can't call yourself INTJ until you have perfected the INTJ Death Stare.

[intjdude]

"I was just looking for an ATM. Are you an ATM?"

hmm... i'm going to try that one :book:

[Anreader]

i also have the stay away force field. I also only get asked out by weirdos. I am chronically single. For the record I want a dominant hero type, not because I'm a damsel in distress, but, because I too am the hero of my story and do not want to spend all my time rescuing dudes in distress. Dudes in distress are far more common than storybooks would have you think.

[Kisai]

Pfft. Weapons! You can't call yourself INTJ until you have perfected the INTJ Death Stare.

The "I can't believe you're going to make me waste valuable time to maim you" glare.

[azelismia]

I think tree ring dating is a reliable method by which to date the intj female. Carbon Dating works well and is slightly less intrusive so perhaps a better option.

[lizzyb83]

hmm... i'm going to try that one :book:

Oh Boy! Well, if you insist on using the ATM line, I think you should use my glammed up versions:

Take 1: Nice
Are you an ATM? Because I'd like to make a withdrawal on your heart.

Take 2: Naughty
Are you an ATM? Because I'd like to make a deposit.

:pimp:

[schwartzie]

That's where I get pick-up lines like, "You're pretty. You look like my cousin."
: ATo view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. he probably just a southern man ...

Pfft. Weapons! You can't call yourself INTJ until you have perfected the INTJ Death Stare.
oh, sure.... this from a man who, defying every damn thing, including barbed wire, humps everything that wriggles.

... For the record I want a dominant hero type, not because I'm a damsel in distress, but, because I too am the hero of my story and do not want to spend all my time rescuing dudes in distress. Dudes in distress are far more common than storybooks would have you think.

lol!

[MacGuffin]

oh, sure.... this from a man who, defying every damn thing, including barbed wire, humps everything that wriggles.


I have standards! Unlike Uber, I require they be alive.

[secretagentm]

The one sitting in the corner listening to her friends prattle on only perking up when a significant subject is raised then switching off again when the latest evictee from BB is mentioned! ;D


Regarding how to pick out an INTJ girl in a crowd, that's a really good one! I definitely do that when in a social/group setting with friends. My extroverted friends usually do all the talking, and I'll just sit back and listen. I'll only perk up when they start talking things I can relate to.

[Anreader]

You can always find me in any group. Im sitting away from the group slightly, with one of two looks on my face, disdainful arrogance or shock and awe. I rarely find people conversing about anything i can relate to.

[intjdude]

Oh Boy! Well, if you insist on using the ATM line, I think you should use my glammed up versions:

Take 1: Nice
Are you an ATM? Because I'd like to make a withdrawal on your heart.

Take 2: Naughty
Are you an ATM? Because I'd like to make a deposit.

:pimp:

hmm... yes, yes, those are good... i might try #2 followed by getaway 1

Getaway 1: The Bill Clinton
I'd like to withdraw my deposit

;D

[Sinequanon]

Take 1: Nice
Are you an ATM? Because I'd like to make a withdrawal on your heart.

Rather odd way to ask for an organ donation... >.<

[lizzyb83]

Rather odd way to ask for an organ donation... >.<

That's kind of amazing.





lizzyb83 added to this post, 1 minutes and 33 seconds later...

hmm... yes, yes, those are good... i might try #2 followed by getaway 1

Getaway 1: The Bill Clinton
I'd like to withdraw my deposit

;D

Just make sure you get rid of the evidence first :sneaky:...