Getting Asked "That Question" Regarding Relationships

[jadefalcon]

After reading a few really good threads on this board, I was interested in some input and discussion regarding this issue.

We all get older and we all move on in life. It can be great to catch up with family, but more often then not I am always asked "Got a girlfriend, yet?"

and I am really not sure how to respond to that question. I always say that I am more focused on my academics, but in truth I am concerned about the issue, and it is important, but not as important as some other things. I have seen millions of women my age or a bit older, and to me they are all beginning to look the same. Is this normal for an INTJ? As I look for someone to share the rest of my life with, I see the same thing in every woman I look at- and I don't know what it is but it turns me away from them. Maybe it is the influence sex has had on the populace.

My cousin just married, all of my older friends have girlfriends or boyfriends, and it seems like everyone else is getting married or are committing to a relationship. I never played the dating game in high school and I won't in college. My roommate (an ENTJ) and I talked about this, and he always told me that I would never find anyone unless I was actively looking and meeting new people. Ironically, he found his girlfriend by chance. He has the same general ideas that I do- a woman that is down to earth, understanding and accepting (with a slight twist of humor). I don't actively search out other women- and he is right.

As an engineer I work with 98% guys and I rarely talk with the opposite sex. In fact sometimes I can find it extremely difficult to do so because I have never met an introverted woman before, and many women wouldn't even spare the time to talk to me, let alone give me a second of attention. I am not interested in "hitting" on them, I am interested in attempting to make some kind of a friend. It is my belief that love can't happen without a good relationship. Whether making friends or not is against Introverted tenedencies can be debated- maybe it is due to expectations of my family that is in my nature to do it. I want to get to know others like myself that are respectful, and I don't want to be anti-social, but I can never strike up a good conversation and I can never find an introverted woman who is open to serious conversation. I can understand not wanting to dabble in trivial matters.

"Getting experience" by going to bars and hanging out with other women is not my idea of getting to know women. It is very frustrating that I cannot communicate effectivly with the opposite sex, and I point the large part of the blame due in part to women not wanting to understand me when I want to understand them. Thus, I can never truly understand what goes on in the mind of a woman. The first woman that that I can truly understand will be a great friend, and a potential person I spend the rest of my life with. I feel it is a shame that people don't want to get to know me in general- because although I won't pamper and spoil a mate, she will be the luckiest girl on the planet, because I am open minded in terms of almost everything- everything is possible but what is desireable? I am fully able and willing to work things out and give/take.

Thoughts? any ideas on how I can better myself to appeal? I don't want to be someone I am not, and I don't want to appear as a hypocrite. I am willing to go as far as club related activities, but anything related to a bar will be impossible for me. I deem it "the engineer's curse", everyone around me has someone to love- but I always tell myself I am blessed because I do not know the plagues of a complicated relationship. Being lonely is a curse too- and a double edged sword. Solitude is a blessing, but it is also a thorn. I never have a lot of people I can talk to personally- it is always colleagues and professors. It's weird- I am well known anywhere I go, my name's entymology (spelling?) is "bright fame", people say hi to me when I am in the local area, and I hate it because I can never remember the person's name, and sometimes their face. After I set foot 15 minutes into the high school, the talk of the hall is that "So-and so's brother is here!). I typically return there to say hi to engineering instructors, other teachers and help them out. People remember me as a good hearted person with a good work ethic, but I wish women would see me like that, someone who is very self-secure, has a heart and is open minded to the complexities of life. Afterall, if something is mechanical and complex- I am open minded to fixing it.

[LionsPride]

Once upon a time, I was single and short on friends. It was a rough year. Anyway, I was in a situation where I needed to meet new people and make lasting relationships. Those are probably the two hardest things for me to do. I ended up joining a team with people I had never met before. Not only did I get to know them over the course of the game season, but I got to know their friends and so on. Instant network of people.

I'd recommend joining something you would find a larger percentage of women at. Art classes (even if it's a casual once a week class), photography courses, coed darts league... Volunteer activities are great, because you may have to work in teams. Summer's coming up so there might be some festivals that could use volunteers. Festivals are great because they aren't an extended commitment so if it doesn't work out you don't have to 'quit'. All those things give you lots of opportunities to talk about the subject matter and starting the conversation is half the battle.

[Sara27]

It may take some time, but if you want a relationship you have to put yourself out there.

My relationships have been few and far between, but long when I have one. I tend to date friends that I've met through school, work, or organizations. I'm usually not interested in anyone I don't know. This has become an issue since it is increasingly difficult for me to meet new people since my exposure to new people has narrowed.

[ElstonGunn]

In my more cynical moments (i.e., 75% of the time ;)), I think that people like you are screwed, especially if they're males. The deck is stacked against you, and the odds are that the only way to get a relationship is to do something that you find very unappealing.

It may take some time, but if you want a relationship you have to put yourself out there.

As far as I can tell, this seems to be true. You have to figure out whether you think it's worse to be single or to do what's required to get, not to mention maintain, a relationship. It's like one of those "Would you pound a nail through your foot for a million dollars" kinds of questions. Personally, I wouldn't, but that's just me.

[Danisty]

Are you really sure you aren't meeting introverted women open to serious discussion? Are you sure you aren't being too introverted to find out? I'm only asking because I'm an introverted woman open to serious discussion that used to work at an engineering firm, so it's not impossible.

The problem that I see is that with two introverts, neither wants makes the first move. Strangely enough, I'm married to an extrovert and I made the first move. I guess it's because the moment I met him, he inspired me to be more extroverted? You're going to have to try. That doesn't mean you have to change who you are. There's no rule that introverts can't approach people and talk to them. If it comes out awkward and she's an introvert, she will probably understand.

[changos]

Relationships take time to develop and when you have them, they suck the time out of you. We might be involved in several projects at once, this is good, it makes some people to see us attractive, but at the same time it makes us hard to deal with everything while the day still has only 24 hours.

About the question "girlfriend yet?" I have an answer you can use. It makes miracles to me. I'm not only the classic weird INTJ, I do mountain sports in a country where everybody is drunk playing or watching soccer.

As people already know how I am (very rare and not common) Sometimes people ask me "why aren't you married yet as everybody?"... I answer: you know I'm not like everybody... It will take time to find somebody I can deal with and she can deal with me.

[Monte314]

If you want to catch trout, fish the trout pond.

You sound like you know what you want in a woman, and you've realized she's probably not hanging out at the local singles' bar. So, where is she?

I would encourage you to devote some time to group activities outside of work that will give you opportunities to meet people... you know, joining a club, volunteering for a local committee (it's an election year!), going to a church/synagogue/mosque, sign up for a group trip, attend a lecture series, that kind of thing. The great thing about these activities is:

1.) women feel "safe" in groups; casual conversation doesn't appear "suspicious"
2.) the activity itself provides the "ice-breaker" topic... you don't need an all-purpose "pick-up line"
3.) the emotional intensity is relatively low, so you can be yourself
4.) you get to see multiple people at once (the "pool of candidates" is bigger)
5.) you can learn about social interaction by watching others

[Uytuun]

Say something like "I'm getting married in 4 months! Omigosh! In fact I'm 3 months pregnant!" Well, leve out the pregnant if you're a guy. :p

[Mafiaangel180]

Three words:

Mail order bride.

[Rohsiph]

It may take some time, but if you want a relationship you have to put yourself out there.

Considering the phrase "put yourself out there"--I wonder about its necessity . . . begrudgingly (from my experience) I think you're right, but it feels like such a disingenuous need.

In my more cynical moments (i.e., 75% of the time ;)), I think that people like you are screwed, especially if they're males. The deck is stacked against you, and the odds are that the only way to get a relationship is to do something that you find very unappealing.

The world refuses to make sense to us--women, when seeking advice, list off rare traits that we command in full, yet then they tie themselves to conventional, traditional-minded businessmen. The greatest moment I've had in my life to do with male/female relations was noticing a half-second wince from my high-school crush about two years ago when talking about my achievements--it meant that her choosing to ignore me back then such that all that's remaining of the bridge is scorched rubbish had, in some way, affected her. Little solace to me, as I remain alone . . . but proof that I'm making a difference . . .

Jadefalcon, I'm in a similar position--though, fortunately, most of my family has learned to stop asking me "that question."

Except, then again my position is a bit different--I'm studying the humanities, and am commonly surrounded by women during my academic terms, yet still wind up being ignored 95% of the time, even though that other 5% of the time I am usually told how intelligent everyone in the class thinks I am.

It's devastating . . . it's crushing and unrelenting, and, inch by inch, life keeps pushing me closer and closer to some damning cliff-edge that will mean annihilation if I ever fall off. Men like us: we have talent, we have creative charm, we have insurmountable will, we have dozens of qualities all women claim they would kill for in a mate if they ever found all of them at once--yet, we remain on the fringe, ignored until we retreat into escapisms to mediate the dull throb of our existence, upon which we become literally invisible to the outer world.

In a general sense, it leads me to think I mean it to say I hate women--but then that I love certain women, on an individual basis. The basic idea of "women," particularly connected to viewing them alongside men, only poisons my worldview whenever I run it over in my head. All it takes is one woman to dispel the curse, but she rarely ever comes around.

[ElstonGunn]

It's devastating . . . it's crushing and unrelenting, and, inch by inch, life keeps pushing me closer and closer to some damning cliff-edge that will mean annihilation if I ever fall off. Men like us: we have talent, we have creative charm, we have insurmountable will, we have dozens of qualities all women claim they would kill for in a mate if they ever found all of them at once--yet, we remain on the fringe, ignored until we retreat into escapisms to mediate the dull throb of our existence, upon which we become literally invisible to the outer world.

I try not to hold it against people when they don't see a great bargain at the store just because it's hidden in the back corner, on the bottom shelf, and contained in drab packaging. It'd be nice if they didn't look for the substance within the style, but how likely is it for that to change?

[Rohsiph]

Agreed as far as the great bargain really is hidden so far out of sight--

my personal distress comes from the increasing number of moments when I don brighter vestments, and still find myself, it seems, ignored in favor of those dancers who know the popular songs by heart.

It's another spike of the condition: honestly, it is one's own "fault"--it is up to oneself to fix it, and to weigh one's integrity vs. one's desires.

I think I am vitriolic for having continuously found myself to be luckless in this area for my entire life . . . particularly venomous whenever encountering the shoppers walking out of the store with a lesser product (which seems to be whenever I go outside these days).

[mkay]

I don't think it's necessary to "put yourself out there," but it sure increases your chances. So it depends on how much you want a relationship.

For anyone else to see how great you are, they have to see some potential. So if you're a person who doesn't reveal much, you're depending on someone else to spot your hidden specialness. If you don't get out much, you further limit your chances. If you resent others for not discovering how special you how, maybe you're not that special or you don't make enough effort to recognize the specialness in others.

That doesn't mean you have to change who you are. It's just how relationships generally work -- you have to give to get.

[curiousjane]

Being on the shelf is hard. Especially when you know for a fact that you are made of quality stuff. It's like being the Brio train set next to the rip-off "Lego" type blocks. Or a fine handcrafted porcelain doll next to Bikini Barbie.

You get passed over for the flashy, cheap stuff.

Maybe we all just need a good earthquake to shake things up. We'll all fall off the shelf, get picked up from the floor by some treasure hunter, and start enjoying life with a true connoisseur.

;)

[mkay]

Being on the shelf is hard. Especially when you know for a fact that you are made of quality stuff. It's like being the Brio train set next to the rip-off "Lego" type blocks. Or a fine handcrafted porcelain doll next to Bikini Barbie.

You get passed over for the flashy, cheap stuff.

Maybe we all just need a good earthquake to shake things up. We'll all fall off the shelf, get picked up from the floor by some treasure hunter, and start enjoying life with a true connoisseur.

;)

A connoisseur wouldn't settle for a Bikini Barbie. ;)

[44sunsets]

The world refuses to make sense to us--women, when seeking advice, list off rare traits that we command in full, yet then they tie themselves to conventional, traditional-minded businessmen.

Many guys don't understand women, but that doesn't mean that you can't learn. Ignore the dating advice rubbish that's in the mainstream media, and read something insightful from the dating/seduction community, such as the material from David DeAngelo, Derek Vitalio, John Alexander etc.

Their material is chock full of insight and is geek-friendly. Ignore the stuff from guys like Mystery and Ross Jeffries, that's too superficial and is more geared towars the bar and club scene.

Some guys get bitter after a virtual lifetime of trying to date women but failing. Don't be those guys -- there is a solution out there, and it's within every guy's reach.

For starters, go to To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. and dig through the archives. You'll find material from lots of the most popular dating experts.

Men like us: we have talent, we have creative charm, we have insurmountable will, we have dozens of qualities all women claim they would kill for in a mate if they ever found all of them at once--yet, we remain on the fringe, ignored until we retreat into escapisms to mediate the dull throb of our existence, upon which we become literally invisible to the outer world.

Talent and will alone mean nothing -- it's your ability to trigger attraction in women that matters. And believe me, you don't nearly have as much charm as you think you do -- that took me a long time to accept.

Also, what women say they want in a man has no correlation with who they end up having a relationship with. Women are very different from men.

I don't think it's necessary to "put yourself out there," but it sure increases your chances.

Absolutely. You don't have to go to bars and clubs, but you do have to get involved in the community somehow and strike up relationships (whether intimate or just friendly).

In my more cynical moments (i.e., 75% of the time ;)), I think that people like you are screwed, especially if they're males. The deck is stacked against you

Indeed it is. Men who are shy, have social anxiety or are autistic to some degree (like me) will have it much tougher than others. Believe me when I say this: very very few women would choose to go out with you, for obvious reasons.

But that's life. There's no use ranting or railing against the universe, because it doesn't change a thing.

Bottom line is that you have to work on improving yourself and overcoming your obstacles. You have to overcome your fears, anxiety and shyness. You have to improve your social skills. You have to develop your understanding of men and women. You have to become a well rounded man, a "renaissance man". David DeAngelo calls this working on your "deep inner game".

I've seen a number of male friends and acquaintances turn their dating life around. It seems like a miracle to other people, but to me it's simply applying the knowledge and insight that they've picked up.

I try not to hold it against people when they don't see a great bargain at the store just because it's hidden in the back corner, on the bottom shelf, and contained in drab packaging.

You guys are going to hate me for saying this, but maybe the bargain isn't such a great bargain after all. Women certainly do see it, but are avoiding it for good reason.

[Rohsiph]

David DeAngelo calls this working on your "deep inner game".

Treating it as a game is my primary hang-up--I've built my value system such that if all that intimacy entails reduces to a game, then, well, prove it successfully and I'll find a way out of my current existence (suicide or destruction/rebirth of my current self . . . whatever).

I invest plenty of time in various "games"--games are escapes. What I want from a relationship is anything but something to run away to; instead, I want something to better allow for championing all of that which I find to be important.

There's a time and place for games . . . marrying intimate companionship to game-like rules defeats my entire world-view.

But that's life. There's no use ranting or railing against the universe, because it doesn't change a thing.

It's the struggle of the Nietzschean philosopher to reconcile nihilism and eternal recurrence. When looking at an average life, and even more so when looking at a single moment in an individual average life, it is nearly impossible to change forces in any tangible shape.

Yet, it is to become a being of nothingness to accept that it is impossible to change things.

I'll drown myself if I ever fully give in to true nihilism. I'll end my life literally. I write this confidently because I don't expect to be convinced inescapably to the side of nothingness.

---

Also, what women say they want in a man has no correlation with who they end up having a relationship with. Women are very different from men.

I don't see how these statements fit together, unless you're laying a claim that women always end up with what they don't say they want, whereas men do end up with what they say they want.

I'm not in the mood to turn this into a feminist debate, but the ways I can see to read your statement all look . . . off . . .

---

This topic always gets me in a bad mood, and captures my mind whenever I'm feeling particularly alone. It's never a good combination, and to write about it here--taking a moment to think about how one would react to these words as a reader--why should anyone care?

Everyone can claim to know darkness, nothingness, the essence of the void . . . everyone can claim to understand depression, to empathize with social anxiety, to realize how hard it can be to temper oneself for the sake of fitting in. It means little for me to say here that chaos is my essence, that I am tunneling through a serious bout of depression, that it is literally impossible for me to change myself such that I fit in to play the "dating game" (such that if such change takes place, I would claim the person writing this no longer exists--though perhaps this would be a positive thing).

An English professor described in a class some years ago the "ideal" definition of what makes a "true artist"--and everyone but me looked to have a little chuckle about it, believing his terms to be impossible. Yet, I felt then like they described very well what I strive for . . . from what I remember, I think it applies even more to my life now. I am terrible at remembering quotes verbatim, but it would be irresponsible to introduce this experience of mine that none of you have had without trying at least a shaky paraphrase.

To this professor, the "true artist" is someone who struggles endlessly with deeply-rooted questions, engaging them in ways that are often destructive to his/herself. As the true artist perfects his/her craft, his/her goals necessarily become harder to achieve, as such a person is never satisfied with any outcome. Such is this person that he/she would choose death for an ideal, would walk entirely against paths of convenience, would create works that the world won't be ready to appreciate for a hundred years after his/her death.

I'm sure my memory has conditioned some of that definition a bit . . . but what was important about hearing the real thing was how my classmates responded as if there cannot be such a person.

I'm not so disappointed with the common appeals of women apparently describing myself and then being passed over as I am with rarely getting a clear sense of why I am being passed over for men who appear to have so much less potential--but that theirs is simple potential, "safe" potential, where mine is such that I will either change the world or burn out ingloriously, with nothing inbetween.

I'm stretching far beyond the focus of this thread . . . but I've been in a vengeful mood, and my more private outlets haven't given me enough release. Right now I loathe this world, for I have in mind so many things that I am sure I could give it if only it would give me a chance to effectively try.

In a single word:

fuck.

[mkay]

I'm not so disappointed with the common appeals of women apparently describing myself and then being passed over as I am with rarely getting a clear sense of why I am being passed over for men who appear to have so much less potential--but that theirs is simple potential, "safe" potential, where mine is such that I will either change the world or burn out ingloriously, with nothing inbetween.

Most people are conservative investors, with money, time and feelings.

"True artists" typically struggle throughout life. If you are a "true artist," then maybe you will have to look for women who are willing to take risks, because my impression is that "true artists" typically sacrifice themselves to their art and people who love them usually pay a high price, often for little in return.





mkay added to this post, 5 minutes and 9 seconds later...

Also, what women say they want in a man has no correlation with who they end up having a relationship with. Women are very different from men.

I can't speak for other women, but this isn't true for me.

[ElstonGunn]

You guys are going to hate me for saying this, but maybe the bargain isn't such a great bargain after all. Women certainly do see it, but are avoiding it for good reason.

Sometimes it has an odd price tag, I'll say that much. Like you have to pay for it in Spanish doubloons or something.


Treating it as a game is my primary hang-up

Same here. I try to see it this way: There are things that I could do that would be more upsetting to me than being romantically alone could ever be. Sometimes that helps, sometimes... not so much.

[Eric86]

Whenever someone asks me if I have a girlfriend yet, I just laugh and say no. That's all I can really do.

[curiousjane]

Best response ...

Antagonist: So why aren't you married/dating yet, dear?
Prey: I don't know. Why are you wearing such ugly shoes?

[LionsPride]

The really annoying thing about "that question" is that the people who ask it mean it rhetorically. At the very MOST they want a some simple pre-packaged answer, preferably witty. It drives me crazy when people ask questions they don't care to know the answer to and the worst thing about this one is it's designed to be condescending and make you feel inferior for not serial dating people. I always want to respond, to defend my view that being single is better than investing my energies in a relationship I know will go know nowhere, but I always get that sour face from the asker. You know the one: "You didn't play by the social rules. I don't want to know your philosophy. How dare you turn my one-off observation into a topic of discussion...".

If I really don't care about the person who's asking, or think it's really none of their business to be condescending about it, I respond with "I'm waiting for them to go on sale at Canadian Tire..."

[Mafiaangel180]

Best response ...

Antagonist: So why aren't you married/dating yet, dear?
Prey: I don't know. Why are you wearing such ugly shoes?

Ahahahahaha, I'm going to use that. :) I hope grandma finds it just as humorous.

[hozer]

Answer: Hookers are cheaper

[44sunsets]

Sometimes it has an odd price tag, I'll say that much. Like you have to pay for it in Spanish doubloons or something.


LOL! This really cracked me up, nice one :laugh: :thumbsup:

The really annoying thing about "that question" is that the people who ask it mean it rhetorically. At the very MOST they want a some simple pre-packaged answer, preferably witty. It drives me crazy when people ask questions they don't care to know the answer to and the worst thing about this one is it's designed to be condescending and make you feel inferior for not serial dating people.


I agree, you've summed it up very nicely here.

[Ramiel]

It's devastating . . . it's crushing and unrelenting, and, inch by inch, life keeps pushing me closer and closer to some damning cliff-edge that will mean annihilation if I ever fall off. Men like us: we have talent, we have creative charm, we have insurmountable will, we have dozens of qualities all women claim they would kill for in a mate if they ever found all of them at once--yet, we remain on the fringe, ignored until we retreat into escapisms to mediate the dull throb of our existence, upon which we become literally invisible to the outer world.

Totally nailed down the picture. Everyone around compliments you for your qualities, but yet noone is interested in them. I have been like this my whole life, and still am a perfect portrait of the valuable, yet ignored man.

And it gets harder every day when you start to think about a relationship. When you answer "no" to the "Question", the answer that comes is always the same: "You'll find someone, eventually".

Eventually - how can one not give up on hopes, when every single person you know, especially girls, tell you "you'll find someone, eventually".
It's like they're talking about you as an unpleasant chore nobody wants to do. "Yeah, SOMEONE will have to do it someday, but not me" they say. They all say that, "someone, but not me", not me. It's an endless loop of rejection and pitiful comments.

I wish I knew how to get out of it but sadly, all I can do for now is show you my sympathy. Tell me if you find out a solution.

[GrimWizard]

Answer: Hookers are cheaper

Sure Sure, But soon you start to run out of places to bury the body.