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Motor Jax
06-06-2008, 08:34 AM
HARTFORD, Connecticut (AP) -- A 78-year-old man is tossed like a rag doll by a hit-and-run driver and lies motionless on a busy city street as car after car goes by. Pedestrians gawk but appear to do nothing. One driver stops briefly but then pulls back into traffic. A man on a scooter slowly circles the victim before zipping away.

The chilling scene -- captured on video by a streetlight surveillance camera -- has touched off a round of soul-searching in Hartford, with the capital city's biggest newspaper blaring "SO INHUMANE" on the front page and the police chief lamenting: "We no longer have a moral compass."

"We have no regard for each other," said Chief Daryl Roberts, who on Wednesday released the video in hopes of making an arrest in the accident that left Angel Arce Torres in critical condition.

However, Roberts and other city officials backtracked on Thursday. After initially saying he was unsure whether anyone called 911, he and other city officials appeared at a news conference in which they said that four people dialed 911 within a minute of the accident, and that Torres received medical attention shortly after that.

"This moved too quickly," said Calixto Torres, City Council president. "People were putting information out too quickly."

Roberts said his initial angry reaction was based on what he saw in the video. "The video was very graphic and sent a very bad message," the police chief said. Watch the impact and the bystanders' failure to act »

The hit-and-run took place in daylight last Friday at about 5:45 p.m. in a working-class neighborhood close to downtown in this city of 125,000.

In the video, Torres, a retired fork-lift operator, walks in the two-way street just blocks from the state Capitol after buying milk at a grocery. A tan Toyota and a dark Honda that is apparently chasing it veer across the center line, and Torres is struck by the Honda. Both cars then dart down a side street.

Nine cars pass Torres as a few people stare from the sidewalk. Some approach Torres, but most stay put until a police cruiser responding to an unrelated call arrives on the scene after about a minute and a half.

"Like a dog they left him there," said a disgusted Jose Cordero, 37, who was with friends Thursday not far from where Torres was struck. Robert Luna, who works at a store nearby, said: "Nobody did nothing."

One witness, Bryant Hayre, told The Hartford Courant he didn't feel comfortable helping Torres, who he said was bleeding and conscious.

The accident -- and bystanders' apparent callousness -- dominated morning radio talk shows.

"It was one of the most despicable things I've seen by one human being to another," the Rev. Henry Brown, a community activist, said in an interview. "I don't understand the mind-set anymore. It's kind of mind-boggling. We're supposed to help each other. You see somebody fall, you want to offer a helping hand."

The victim's son, Angel Arce, begged the public for help in finding the driver. "My father is fighting for his life," he said.


The hit-and-run is the second violent crime to shock Hartford this week. On Monday, former Deputy Mayor Nicholas Carbone, 71, was beaten and robbed while walking to breakfast. He remains hospitalized and faces brain surgery.

"There was a time they would have helped that man across the street. Now they mug and assault him," police chief said. "Anything goes."

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what the heck is happening to moral value?

jesse
06-08-2008, 04:38 AM
:confused:

Surprising the bystanders just looked on and did nothing. "I was disgusted and paralyzed because he was unconscious and bleeding" Blood ain't so nice to look at when it happens for real eh?

I might understand if the old man had been completely mutilated, but damn. Seems calling 911 for an ambulance is an impossible task these days. Maybe people are scared shitless of lawsuits or maybe the old man did not have insurance and assumed nothing will help him. I thought there was a little something called the Hippoocratic Oath, at least a variant of it.

Mozzes
06-08-2008, 07:49 AM
Bystander Effect (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)

Motor Jax
06-08-2008, 08:34 AM
tks Frickles!

wow, that is phenomenal and disturbing at the same time

what the heck does the article mean,

The second reason is the need to behave in correct and socially acceptable ways. When other observers fail to react, individuals often take this as a signal that a response is not needed or not appropriate.

dude, that's like, messed up

oh, and that ticks me off


i have to admit though, i would be the first person to report something





Motor Jax added to this post, 5 minutes and 26 seconds later...

here is another (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) that describes the same thing

how can 34 people just standby for 35 minutes as a 28 year old female gets attacked and stabbed not once, but 3 times?

i guess i have yet to read about this in my emotional intelligence book, but at the same time, it is very, very baffling

thod
06-08-2008, 08:36 AM
Yea, 35 minutes for a stabbing is way too long. I would have been shouting for them to get on with it.

onlyparallel
06-08-2008, 11:52 AM
I don't really know where this problem is stemming from but it sure is disturbing. I've heard the stabing story before, one of my teachers told my class. No one really commented on the story, they were all really apathetic. I suppose that's what creates the bystander effect in the first place, no one really seems to care or know what to say and do.

phantasma
06-08-2008, 12:12 PM
While I understand that most passersby don't know how to correctly move a paralyzed person, the least they could do is immediately call 911 and get a bunch of people to stand in the road around the man to protect him from traffic.

Karamazov
06-08-2008, 08:16 PM
This certainly isn't a new phenomenon. The Kitty Genovese incident is emblematic of the 'bystander effect'.

ThaiGreenTea
06-08-2008, 09:05 PM
My friend actually told me about this. Thanks for pointing out the article!

Antares
06-09-2008, 03:42 AM
Eck. I would have scooped him up, bloodying my own car, to take him to a hospital. Or call the ambulance. Or seek public aid. But I would not have left him there. What is with people?

notoppings
06-09-2008, 05:56 AM
Some people are concerned with the infringement of their time, to become involved usually entails helping, then reporting it to officials, rather time consuming. What value is a human life when compared to that person not being able to chat up that certain someone, or have that extra cup of beverage, and the worst having to explain to their employer why they were late.

Others are concerned with the legal ramifications of becoming involved will they be held responsible for this persons injuries, will they have to be involved with the court system later, will they become suspect. I have read news stories on people bringing injured people to the hospital and having to sign a form bearing financial burden before that victim could be helped, (shame on the hospitals) in case the victim is unable to pay.

Yet others are just indifferent and care nothing for human life, if it's not theirs.

I have been faced with similar situations, witnessing a car wreck and have aided to the best of my ability, lacking true medical skills I was still able to put out flares and call 911 and direct traffic around until help arrived, we can all do something even if it's not medical.

Mozzes
06-09-2008, 08:41 AM
It's all very easy to say what you would've done in hypothetical hindsight but the truth is you probably have no idea how you would react in that situation. I know I don't though I like to think I would've done the right thing. We all like to think we're brave and valorous.

It's also worth pointing out that it's not a moral issue. In fact, studies on the bystander effect show that when the responsibility to act falls solely on an individual (ie only one person in the situation is able to act) that the person is far more likely to act than if there's a crowd of people present. If it was truly a moral issue than one would think the opposite would be true - that a person would be most likely to look past the suffering of another and not involve themselves when they're alone (after all, if they're alone there is nobody to judge them negatively for not helping) but when a crowd is present to readily help so both not to be judged negatively as well as to gain admiration (people do love heroes).

Motor Jax
06-09-2008, 08:51 AM
maybe being combat mindset, but being in the military, one is taught to react to emergency situations

i just cannot see how someone does not have that same mindset when it is another human involved

Mozzes
06-09-2008, 08:53 AM
maybe being combat mindset, but being in the military, one is taught to react to emergency situations

i just cannot see how someone does not have that same mindset when it is another human involved

Is it so hard to see that someone trained to react in an emergency would react differently than somebody who had probably never even considered being in an emergency before?

Motor Jax
06-09-2008, 09:01 AM
if it was their kid or parents, they would probably react

i just don't see how it can be different... a human is a human is a life...

now, if it was me, i would run out there, stop traffic, render first aid, and order people to contact 911... but then again, i am 1st Aid and CPR qualed...

Mozzes
06-09-2008, 09:34 AM
if it was their kid or parents, they would probably react

i just don't see how it can be different... a human is a human is a life...

now, if it was me, i would run out there, stop traffic, render first aid, and order people to contact 911... but then again, i am 1st Aid and CPR qualed...

Be that as it may building an argument based on the (probably biased) hypothetical actions of one's self as well as those of an imaginary generic person leaves something to be desired.

It's much better to deal with what we have - the bystander effect - and what it means. Based on evidence that's been collected it's related neither to one's morality nor one's willingness to act. It appears to be a deeper psychosocial phenomenon. Perhaps it might be more productive to discuss that rather than pass tacit judgments on the people from the article.

Antares
06-09-2008, 10:04 AM
"Why is no one else helping? There are LOADS of people here! Would I seem like the odd one out? Maybe he's dead?" That's what I would expect to be going through the heads of those stoic bystanders.