18 years of age and about to leave college

[tomyc993]

Hey everyone, I need a little insight into my predicament and wondered if anyone could take the time to help. I'm 18 years of age and just about to leave college. This year I have decided to hold of on going to Uni, because its an expensive affair and I'm not entirely sure what benefits I would get; not to mention I'm not sure what I would take. So, i had an idea of taking a gap year and focusing my mind, but to get by I would require some money obviously. I know this sounds silly and isn't very respectable, but I've never really experienced 'menial work'. I purposely did something I considered to be 'menial', when I completed my two weeks of work experience, but I've never really worked aside from this. The way I rationalized this to myself is that I wanted to focus solely on academia.
I don't mean to sound condescending, but do any of you do work you would consider to be menial? I'm referring to the job as a whole, rather than individual facets of the job you might find to be menial. I know the definition is subjective and that is why I am leaving the definition up to you individuals. Do you enjoy this menial work? Can you quite easily become trapped in a menial job? I know this sounds incredibly naive and a little patronizing, but I am just wondering what to expect.

[mtn man]

I can't speak to the menial aspect from current job, but i think a gap year is a great way to go if you are uncertain. I didn't do it that way but often wish i had. In my mind there are two ways to go. 1) Do a menial (humble) job that doesn't require using your mind nor necessarily apply to what you might study or do later. Use this time to explore what you might want to study; do that through hobbies, visiting places of work that interest you, reading, etc. 2) Find a field that you think you might enjoy but isn't necessarily 'menial' and get a job in it. Do whatever you need to get that job, work for cheap, work for free, whatever...and work hard. If you don't like it, try something else. If you like it and it requires or offers additional schooling, take it. Be up front and honest with the people you are working for or want to work for, they will probably help you.

In my personal decision process, I think I relied too heavily on thinking/theorizing and not enough on going out and experiencing a job, so that is where #2 is coming from.

[Tactical Panda]

Lift heavy boxes. Save on gym membership for the year.

;)

[PrometheusENTJ]

You won't be stuck unless you want to be stuck. I've spent some time doing machine work (lathes, milling, drilling) etc. in a workshop to make money during the summers (when I was in college). It helped me develop huge arms and shoulders, always a benefit! It was brutal and I've never slept as well as I did in those summers!

Nothing is menial, just go into it with the right attitude, don't think you're all high and mighty, be humble, put your head down and learn: hardly anyone would be able to resist you then. Your objective is to gain experience and perspective: but you want to be able to think, so you might want to avoid "heavy work" like I did -- leaves little time to think unless you work part time (I did 8hrs+1 for lunch and was dog tired at the end of it).

[Monte314]

I worked as a janitor during high school and during the Summers while a university student.

For the most part, I found the work to be very satisfying; I could look back over my area and see how much better I had made things.

Many aspects of the work were pretty mechanical, and I was free to establish the order in which I did things. I worked after hours, so I didn't have to worry about bothering anyone. This left me free to think interesting thoughts, grind through problems, design arguments, sing, etc.... all the things that are most interesting to me.

When the job was done, I didn't have to take any problems home with me. I worked with very kind people who treated me with respect, and I made enough money to meet my expenses.

For me at that point in my life, "menial" work was a few hours of guaranteed "peace and predictability" for me each day, which was exactly what I needed.

[K27]

I worked in a market flower stall and a Japanese ramen shop before. These are menial jobs. Well excluding the nonsensical orders given out by the bosses, the job itself is to some extent enjoyable. I learned to name a few flowers and had my Japanese advanced a little. But these jobs are all very physically demanding and in my place these jobs are not enough for you to save money for uni. So maybe your place is better. If you live in Hong Kong I'd advise, go be a student teacher. If you are not concerned by financial problem, then it's always a good thing to expose yourself to different kinds of jobs.

[Monte314]

One of the accounts I worked as a janitor included the engineering building of a major manufacturer of airplanes for general aviation.

I was going through on my regular rounds one night dumping the trash, and I noticed that an easel had appeared in one of the fancy "higher up" engineer's offices. It had a tablet of that big newsprint paper on it (I guess they didn't want people hanging boards on the walls).

Night after night I would come through on my rounds, and watch the growing stream of equations that was appearing on this easel. There was some goal in mind, but I could not quite make out what the guy was trying to do.

After about a week of watching this, there was finally enough stuff on the easel for me to see that what the guy was trying to do was develop a McClaurin Series for the Natural Logarithm. For obvious reasons, this is quite impossible (I'll let Latro, Malle, K27, or rbc explain why).

What else was I to do? I grabbed a pad of paper from his desk and explained that he need to develop a Taylor Series instead. I chose the obvious base point (the aforementioned geniuses know what I chose), and did the expansion in a few lines. I signed it using the name of the janitorial firm, and left it on his desk. I naively assumed that he would be delighted.

The next night I worked my way eagerly down to his office, expecting a note of thanks on the easel...

... but the easel was gone, and all the paper that had been on it had been ripped into ragged shreds and crammed into the waste basket.

Golly, some people just don't know how to express gratitude...


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[Mike1975]

I don't find any work menial, but if what you are referring to is a low skilled job I would say do something in customer service/fast food. It teaches you that once the orders start shooting out "I can't" isn't acceptable. You are standing in front of the customer (in my case it was pizza hut) so you can't walk away or do a shitty job, and this may just be something that comes natural but taking complex processes and McDonaldizing them then communicating them to the stoner twins that are your only support. I would say now even when going through resumes when hiring staff for a professional job, I'll dump a silver spoon in the mouth kid for one who spent a few years in food service.

[Chameleon]

As ma' daddy always said. No matter how simple a job is, its a job, do it well. If you end up being a ditch digger boy, you better be the best damn ditch digger there ever was. Because ain't nobody gonna respect a jobless broke ass, son-bitch, no matter how smart ya are.

[Beric]

Tomy, have you considered a junior college?

Let me put it this way. Every year you work now is one less year you'll have to work after graduating (i.e. an opportunity cost). You make minimum wage now. You make at least 40K a year out of college. Additionally, as the saying goes, the younger you are, the easier you learn. However, admittedly, university costs are prohibitive.

Community college is the solution. I got a 3.7 at my community college with minimal effort. Assuming you have a local JC that's worth anything, it's the best option, IMO. I paid less than $1500 year to attend my JC, textbooks included. And I just transferred into the second-best public business undergrad school in my state, paying 15K a year. It's so much cheaper, yet I'm still getting a full 4-year degree. Additionally, I have my AA in my back pocket should I need to work now. Finally, while JC classes tend to be easier, the high GPA from my JC still counts towards my GPA at the university I'm at. It couldn't be better.

People who attend a 4-year university for 4 years don't know what they're doing. Go to your JC. Save $30,000-$40,000 over 2 years, and end up in the same place as everyone else. And if you want to work, get an internship now, while you're at your JC (clearly paid is best). Starbucks or janitorial work isn't gonna look incredible on your resume or advance your career.

EDIT: I see you're from the UK. Perhaps this doesn't apply?

[tomyc993]

Yeah, sorry about that Beric. I have just finished college, but in England, which as I understand it, is very different from a college in the U.S. sense.

[Mafdet]

I'd suggest either a part-time 'menial' job that leaves you enough time to pursue other interests, or a full-time position in a field that you're interested in. The second option can be hard to come by at the moment, so definitely keep volunteering in mind if money isn't an issue.

I had a bit of an attitude about 'menial' jobs when I left school, but you can learn a lot from those - even if it's just social skills - or get some niche views into things you didn't know before. Part-time employment is easier to come by, and working paid 3 or 4 days a week leaves you with both money and time to spend on better things.

That said, avoid customer service if you possibly can.

[tomyc993]

'I had a bit of an attitude about 'menial' jobs when I left school, but you can learn a lot from those - even if it's just social skills - or get some niche views into things you didn't know before. Part-time employment is easier to come by, and working paid 3 or 4 days a week leaves you with both money and time to spend on better things.' That is exactly what I am thinking of going for now? :)

[Sauliasaur]

...I am planing to go into another school and then finished go to study something( I will try animation).But damn... Im 19!!! And Im only now finishing the damn school.Curse you ,east Europe!!!My arch nemesis!
As well then I will go to that school(for woodcrafting) I will give some time for myself,learning and my hobbies.

[JackCY]

I don't get it, pls use some normal terms, like:
Pre-kindergarten
Kindergarten
Elementary school
High school, Vocational school
University Bachelor
University Master
University PhD

Those college, undergraduate, graduate, etc. are different in US, England, and elsewhere.

I know you're leaving high school, but why do you call it college is beyond me.

Menial work, I don't like work that is always the same, like sit there for 8h 5 days a week and do the one same thing, it was bad on by back, and I was so fast after a while I got to do something else :D I would be able to build a robot to do the thing yet I was paid for being that robot, stereo type work is damn boring not challenging etc. once you improve there is nothing else to do than pushing up the corporate ladder.
Go to school, high school is nothing today, every other one has Bachelor these days.
Choose a public school etc. you don't have to go to some fancy expensive school. If you can't afford that then something is terribly wrong with your country & government. That is my opinion.

[mieu]

I'd second the janitorial work--in many places in the US these jobs are unionized, guaranteeing you more than minimum-wage pay. I'm not sure how it works in the UK (I'm assuming that's where you are from by your jargon). When I was 16 I got a summer job as a janitor for $13 an hour...that's a lot when you're used to $6 or $7. I'm a chick, so things like cleaning desks in a school was easy, stripping/waxing floors was not. For the most part, it's in air conditioning though, so it ain't all THAT bad. During my frequent union-mandated breaks, I was able to catch up on reading, doing things that I like that I was able to fit in my backpack and take to work with me. Best of all, you don't really have to deal with people that much if you don't want to. At least, no one expects you to be a 'shiny, happy people-type' all the time (plus, none of my co-workers spoke very good english).

[Autumnleaf]

I dropped out of college and joined the Marines. After 4 years in the Marines I went back to college and did exceedingly well there for some odd reason.

[Imagineering]

If I were you, I'd avoid fast food or being a janitor. There is no future in it. There is a future in learning a trade. Even you are paid less starting out in a trade than you are as a janitor, over time your skill level will increase. Some things are worth a hell of a lot more with less pay. Sometimes a dollar is worth 50 cents.

---------- Post added 05-04-2011 at 04:27 PM ----------

I mean sometimes 50 cents is worth a dollar.

[Mafdet]

I don't get it, pls use some normal terms... <snip>

You can't apply your 'normal' American terms to our school system, it won't work.
In the UK, High School finishes at 16. You can leave school then and get a job, but most people go on to college until they are 18. After that you can again choose to leave and find employment, or go on to University.
Tomyc already left high school 2 years ago. He has now finished his 2 years at college and is taking a year to himself (gap year) before going to University. This is quite common in the UK, perhaps not so in the USA.

Also, there's no point racking up big debts if you don't know what you want to study. It's all very well saying 'Go to school' but at this point for him it is entirely optional. Taking a year out and finding out what you're interested in before investing is a good move in my book.

[PrometheusENTJ]

I dropped out of college and joined the Marines. After 4 years in the Marines I went back to college and did exceedingly well there for some odd reason.

Great Work ethic :)?

[XFire35]

Don't go into retail in a big supermarket (like ASDA). You will die a little bit every hour you work.

[tomyc993]

XFire35, I am being told this everywhere I turn...

[XFire35]

XFire35, I am being told this everywhere I turn...
I didn't want anyone to suffer the same fate as I.

[Storm]

I've done low-skills jobs, if that's what you mean. It varies a lot. I've life guarded, taught pre-school, worked in grocery store, worked in a bookstore, and given tours. Who your boss and co-workers are matters most. It's not bad, I've never truly hated a job or felt I was in a rut, but they were all jobs just to make extra money while I was going to school or taking time off between school. Oftentimes the work was enjoyable as I felt I was contributing to something and putting money in my pocket at the same time. But they weren't jobs that I would have satisfied doing all my life without a pay raise or a chance to move up in the company. They were not enough money that I would have been able to comfortably live on them on my own. It would have required a lot of penny pinching and working overtime whenever it was available. Probably would have required a second job. Not sure what minimum wage is in the U.K. - but in the U.S. it's around $7.25 an hour. That's about $1,000 a month after taxes. You can rent a room for maybe $300 a month, food is $200, transportation maybe $100, health insurance another $100 (these last two might be cheaper in the U.K., don't really know). That's only $300 left for savings/fun stuff/clothing. Of course, you can find jobs that pay 2 and 3 times the minimum wage that are low-skills (I think grocery cashiers pay $10-$15 an hour) if you're willing to go through their training and stick it out for a few months at a lower-paying job (like bagger) to show you aren't a slacker.

I had another friend that started off waiting tables at a chain that sold inexpensive food. After a few month, he moved up to a 3 star restaurant selling pricey food. Few more months, and he moved up to a 5 star restaurant selling $300 bottles of wine on a regular basis. Of course, it was hard work with weird hours. Still, possible.

[Abgrund]

I don't mean to sound condescending, but do any of you do work you would consider to be menial?

I've done everything from sweeping to engineering with equal pride. It depend on who you are and who you work for, not what you do - people, not jobs, are menial.

Except for retail. Then, there's no escaping the abuse.

[12ax7]

I've worked in manufacturing/production at two different places. The work is fairly easy and there is short-term satisfaction in getting things done, but at the end of the day I still feel like I'm just making more money for "the man" with no greater purpose.

Still, your plan seems like a good one to me. I wish I had thought more before deciding what to study at University. The only trap I find myself in is that I hate job-hunting so much I might rather stay at a current job than move! But applying to a school should be a bit easier if you had good grades.

[TylerRDA]

I found a surprising amount of satisfaction from working 'menial' jobs, yet at the same time it motivated me to study harder at college because I knew that's not what I wanted to be doing for the rest of my life. So taking a 'menial' job isn't necessarily the end of academic career unless you make it that way.

[LaoTzu]

When you're an INTJ... almost all work is menial.

As far as ditching school to go work; I think it's a good idea. Regardless of what employment you get in on. Mind you, you might get a rude awakening when they pass you up for a job at McDonalds.

My Brother had a friend who's now a Doctor... but in High School he took a part time job at a Gas Station. He couldn't hack it. And I don't mean he got sick of the work... I mean he couldn't do the fucking job. Hell... he could barely make change. Genius intellect; and couldn't manage to do a 'menial' job.

You'll see what I mean when you get out there. It's not always as simple as it looks.


As far as your age; I would consider all the years up to 24 as 'freebies'. Do whatever you want. No need to rush into higher education.
I say 24 only because it's not 25. I figure if you get out of Uni before you're 30; you're ahead of the game. (Again, that's just me) Not that getting out later is bad or anything... but I figure most People need to feel like they're accomplishing shit, and those two ages are typically the "what am I doing with my life" kind of ages. It's different for everyone of course.

[Mafdet]

Mind you, you might get a rude awakening when they pass you up for a job at McDonalds.

At 17, getting fired from my first job after 3 weeks probation: 'You don't have the personality to be a waitress.'

Rude. Bloody. Awakening. :D