Dating: is everything is wrong from the beginning? the social ritual?

[changos]

I came across this thread: How to seduce an ENFP? (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) with a suggested link on dating tips. I've discussed this topic deeply with diff people and I detect the same pattern from both genders. I come to the conclusion that the ritual is WRONG and unbalanced. I will appreciate your comments, specially coming from the ladies if they see this as a (1)pattern, (2)problem and perhaps (3)injustice? :embarassed:

Why does it seems to me dating is wrong and unbalanced?
Society: friends, books, research and women themselves, almost every data on earth point to "the guys don't have a clue on dating". I won't get involved on the advice of logic vs emotions, just see the pattern please...

Almost every advice on dating pushes the guy to adapt to the woman needs. Make her laugh, make her enjoy an emotional conversation, show her you are not this or that... I'm against this as there are two persons at the table, not a queen and an entertainer. Sure, the advice works but what next? you end up with the task of entertain or perhaps "changing slowly to who you really are" after all those emotional conversations. Are we doomed? we might realize this but constantly every media publishes tons of the same dumb advice on us working our ass to get a girl.

Yes, some will say "another INTJ talking about dating from a logical point of view", but is not the topic.

I've tried many approaches on this, sure, adapting to all those tips works, but thats not me and usually is not "a guy" a the table. While talking to the girls I know I usually point to the fact that we are men, we are not suppose to become "their female-best-friend".

Some friends of mine (and myself) are confused as my attitude of being alone and usually not wanting to get involved "attracts people", it seems ridiculous but as I run away, other come after me (as other friends with the same attitude) not saying this is the solution, just saying there are many many diff kinds of woman around, and they are interested on diff guys.

Some girls have said positive things about this previous attitude, having respect for a guy who doesn't act like their shoe or walks upside down to get them.-

Sometimes doing nothing works.

*At the end, yes it seems to me dating is an unfair ritual. Myself and other friends have dated several and diff kinds of girls and on our way we've seen bad attitudes, bad hygiene, bad manners and so... we walk away. So is not only the guy who fails. Sometimes some girls don't ever call back and we say "thanks God!" :thumbsup:

(oh yes, I'm 30) No disrespect, but is a diff thing to talk about dating if I'm 18. I'm pretty sure older, I mean, wiser people will think differently, please comment.

[ElstonGunn]

I've seen quite a few advice columns targeted at women, on the subject of how to cater to men's wishes. Although now that you mention it, a lot of them did seem to be working under the subtle implication of "women are doing it right, but if you like a guy who's too dumb to figure things out, here's how you can get him to do what he's supposed to be doing." Or maybe I'm seeing implications that don't exist.

Either way, I think women write the rulebooks, especially since they tend to be the ones playing defense most of the time. I think it's kind of like one of those self-perpetuating cycles.

The thing that bothers me the most though (I'm 22, by the way), is that both Joe Merrick and Joe Stalin seem to have better chances in dating than a quiet guy does.

[curiousjane]

"Dating" should be an enriching process. The problem is we make it about ourselves.

Both the guy and girl often come from the perspective in which they want their own needs to be met. Funny thing is, if both were intent on meeting the needs of the other person above their own needs, then they would actually both get their wish.

(And as long as we're talking age, here, I will freely admit to being one week away from 28.)

[mkay]

I've always just done my own thing with relationships. If I was interested in someone, I made it clear. I usually got asked out. But if I liked a guy who was shy, I didn't have a problem asking him out. I figured if he didn't like me or was threatened by my asking, then I was better off knowing that upfront instead of wasting time. I think people waste a lot of time looking for strategies and such, just to save themselves a little embarrassment. In my mind, it's better to be embarrassed than to be chicken.

I think relationships go both ways. You both give, you both get. I don't expect anyone to give more than me.