INTJs in History

[Rei]

Apart from these...

Augustus Caesar (Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus)
Jane Austen (Pride and Prejudice)
Michael Dukakis, governor of Mass., 1988 U.S. Dem. pres. candidate
Hannibal, Carthaginian military leader

U.S. Presidents:
Chester A. Arthur
Calvin Coolidge
Thomas Jefferson
John F. Kennedy
James K. Polk
Woodrow Wilson

Anyone notice any other historical figures who may be an INTJ
[hr]
Side Note: Considering INTJs are not attracted to leadership roles... it's odd that there should be so many INTJs among US presidents.

[qwerty]

INTJ's in politics :). I think the reason why there are so many INTJ presidents may be due to them not standing up for the job until they were certain, most of the greatest leaders suddenly seem to appear out of nowhere.

[Rei]

INTJ's in politics :). I think the reason why there are so many INTJ presidents may be due to them not standing up for the job until they were certain, most of the greatest leaders suddenly seem to appear out of nowhere.

Just for the record... I hate politics. I can't even begin to imagine how much I'd want to kill myself (or everyone else) if I were thrown into politics.

[INTJohn]

An author and and a woman who lived her Life:

Mary Wollstonecraft;

".....Strengthen the female mind by enlarging it, and there will be an end to blind obedience; but, as blind obedience is ever sought for by Power, tyrants and sensualists [Guardian SJ's and Artisan SP's] are in the right when they endeavor to keep women in the dark; because the former only want slaves and the latter a play-thing."

from her book titled; "Vindication of the Rights of Woman" - 1792......YES!!! 1792 - a woman hundreds of years ahead of her time.

I raised my INTJ daughter by these words..........read the book INTJ's.

INTJohn

[OneBadMother]

Hmm, I'm not sure if I'd consider JFK an INTJ. Calvin Coolidge, definitely, with his famous laconicness and razor wit.

[Rei]

I just stole that list off an INTJ profile so if I really wouldn't know. *I never had an interest in American history.

May I ask you all to consider Elizabeth I of England.
I was watching a documentary on the History channel last night, and she really struck me as being I_TJ... maybe INTJ...
Anyone else think so?

[deicruxified]

[Guardian SJ's and Artisan SP's]
i got a prof who's into a lot of nietzsche and he's throwing into everyone "WOMEN ARE DANGEROUS PLAYTHINGS"... so i told him, "it's like shouting at everyone men's weakness by that retort of his."... if you're gonna read thus spoke zarathustra (which nietzsche stolen from a book he read when he was a kid) there was a chapter there when zararthustra was watching women dancing and he said, (not in verbatim) "they are beautiful and in control yet we cannot join them... they are dangerous and there's no way we can grasp them"... i guess he missed that one...

and yet another nietzsche fan saying the ubermensch uses women to spread their kind but to scrutinize the issue, it's still women's choice if she wants to nurture his kind. women can abort an ubermensch if she wants too...and someone says nietzsche's an intj... i don't think so... he's more of the hedonists side while intj's may often be detached with the NT

i'm not a feminazi but i do have a concern for my gender. i'm glad you're exposing you're kid to such ideologies...

[Rei]

An author and and a woman who lived her Life:

Mary Wollstonecraft;
....
"Vindication of the Rights of Woman" - 1792

I have that hanging around my book shelf waiting to be read. I'm somewhat reluctant though as it sounds a bit over the top. I'll judge when I do finish it though.

In any case, I do applaud you for (as deicruxified says)
exposing you're kid to such ideologies...

[generalowk]

Different lists place historical figures in different profiles.

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I've been doing a bit of reading of Keirsey lately. His site places Grant and Eisenhower as INTJs.

He labels Jefferson an INTP.

[Firebert]

I love that Jane Austin is on that list. Absolutely one of my favorite authors of all time. While I may not appreciate her story-lines all the time, I love reading them just to hear her talk. I freaked a friend of mine out back in high school when I told him that I'd love to ask her out on a date if she were alive.

[Rei]

Different lists place historical figures in different profiles.

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I've been doing a bit of reading of Keirsey lately. His site places Grant and Eisenhower as INTJs.

He labels Jefferson an INTP.

Wow, there's a whole lot of people who were involved with the makin gof the atomic bomb. *And then more famous physicists...

I just stole that list off an INTJ profile so if I really wouldn't know. I never had an interest in American history.

May I ask you all to consider Elizabeth I of England.
I was watching a documentary on the History channel last night, and she really struck me as being I_TJ... maybe INTJ...
Anyone else think so?

Turns out Elizabeth I was an ESTJ...

[wolf]

He labels Jefferson an INTP.
He's the only one I can with absolute certainty say is an INTJ. He's so clearly INTJ that you would have to be blind to miss it. Everything points to the fact, if you just look at what he left behind as his legacy. He was one of the leading architects of our government.

[ShaiGar]

He labels Jefferson an INTP.
He's the only one I can with absolute certainty say is an INTJ. He's so clearly INTJ that you would have to be blind to miss it. Everything points to the fact, if you just look at what he left behind as his legacy. He was one of the leading architects of our government.
So? I've recently read what he left behind as his legacy and that is something I want to leave behind. INTP
It is so damn simple for an intelligent INTP who gives a shit to develop a magnificent country (which, in the beginning, the USA was).
INTP and INTJ are extremely alike, if you want proof he's INTP though look at how many times he had to write the declaration of independance.

[Rei]

He labels Jefferson an INTP.
He's the only one I can with absolute certainty say is an INTJ. He's so clearly INTJ that you would have to be blind to miss it. Everything points to the fact, if you just look at what he left behind as his legacy. He was one of the leading architects of our government.
So? I've recently read what he left behind as his legacy and that is something I want to leave behind. INTP
It is so damn simple for an intelligent INTP who gives a shit to develop a magnificent country (which, in the beginning, the USA was).
INTP and INTJ are extremely alike, if you want proof he's INTP though look at how many times he had to write the declaration of independance.

Having to write it many times could just be a sign that he's a perfectionist.

[ShaiGar]

Wouldn't it be a sure thing that he was a perfectionist?

[AntimonyLegault]

Side Note: Considering INTJs are not attracted to leadership roles... it's odd that there should be so many INTJs among US presidents.

The "unwilling leader" seems to be pretty prelavent in ltierature etc.
I'd say JC Denton from Deus Ex 2 was an INTJ type (which is kind of interesting).
I'm personally wondering how they could have answered questions for those historical figures spot-on.

[GOD]

I think William the Conqueror was an INTJ.

Anybody think differently? and why?

[GOD]

INTJ's in politics :). I think the reason why there are so many INTJ presidents may be due to them not standing up for the job until they were certain, most of the greatest leaders suddenly seem to appear out of nowhere.

They stood up and took control when it would have been wrong to hold back...

I don't think INTJ's hold back on leadership.... when the calling is worthy of their participation.

Often leadership goes against the contingency mode and also it entails lots of E type activity. But sometimes needs must...

[cielo market]

I think whoever "Jack" from "all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy" was an INTJ.

[GOD]

I think whoever "Jack" from "all work and no play makes Jack a dull boy" was an INTJ.

Sure? I'd think it would have been an ISTJ.

The N means the person is capable of thinking in their own mind about possibilities, with the ISTJ they are seeing what is in front of them...If they work all the time then there is nothing interesting about them.

I think.... INTJ
"all rules and no initiative makes Jack a depressed boy"

Actually we could have various sayings for all the types.... ;D

[Rei]

I think William the Conqueror was an INTJ.

Anybody think differently? and why?
William the Conqeror...
Probably an NJ, very good foresight and very through. Most likely a T... but why do you think he's an I?

[snoogit]

John Maynard Keynes (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)

You know you're an INTJ, if an outsider makes this comment about you:

"If you put two economists in a room, you get two opinions, unless one of them is Lord Keynes, in which case you get three opinions." - Churchill

[aelan]

An author and and a woman who lived her Life:

Mary Wollstonecraft;

".....Strengthen the female mind by enlarging it, and there will be an end to blind obedience; but, as blind obedience is ever sought for by Power, tyrants and sensualists [Guardian SJ's and Artisan SP's] are in the right when they endeavor to keep women in the dark; because the former only want slaves and the latter a play-thing."

from her book titled; "Vindication of the Rights of Woman" - 1792......YES!!! 1792 - a woman hundreds of years ahead of her time.

I raised my INTJ daughter by these words..........read the book INTJ's.

INTJohn

We read "Of the Pernicious Effects which Arise from the Unnatural Distinctions Established in Society" from that book this year in one of my classes (we were focusing on "sameness" feminism).

[Daniel]

U u u.....undoubtedly Peter the great.The man was interested in ship building, mechanics , anatomy ,mathematics, artilery, he was friends with newton and became the greatest ruler of the country most difficult to rule.Everyone said he was crazy to build St Petersburg, but he didn't listen t others and pursued his idea alone...and he triumphed.

[INTroJect]

Jefferson was an INTP. He had great ideas but was not very efficient at implementing much of anything. He ran his plantation into debt and had to sell all his library of books to maintain appearances. When he was a part of the Colonial diplomatic mission to France with Franklin, Adams and the other forefather homies he spent days redesigning his stagecoach while there were pressing matters...like winning a the revolution. None of it sounds very pragmatic. Oah and especially because he kept the most intricate records of his income and expenses but never added up the columns to see that he was spending himself into poverty. He died and left his family with $100k of debt.

Well atleast he got American personal finance off to a good start.

[INTroJect]

What do you all think about these characters:


Hamilton - Very likely. Revolutionary period 'Financial Systems Developer'.

JP Morgan - Maybe

Carnegie - no

Rockefellar - no

Jay Gould - likely

Benjamin Franklin - I hear some say that he was bc of inventions but I just don't see it from his actions. Read John adams for reason why.

John Jacob Astor - can't tell but curious to know

John Adams <---- Almost certain about him. Awkward and overly direct diplomat. Couldn't get himself to accept that even when at war diplomats are soposed to schmooze. He would get worked up and flustered when there was too much buffonary and not enough progress. And he was not much of a fan of Franklin b/c Franklin was the center of all the wartime dillydallying which is why I think Franklin wasn't.

Charlie Munger - Buffett's co-chair of Berkshire. I really think he is.

Donald Rumsfeld - Yes. Sad but true. INTJ management practices gone wrong, it seems his goals were more focused on concentrating his control of the pentagon rather than running it effectively.

Colin Powell - I read somewhere yes and think more likely than not.

Condi - Dont know what she is but not INTJ. ISTP?

Aunt Jemimah - Definately.

Mrs. Butterworth's - Absolutely




Well there you have my lifetime of analysis. Anyone have any thoughts on these characters?

[OneBadMother]

Aunt Jemima? I think not. XD

[INTroJect]

Oah and I also remembered since I last posted:

Ulysees S. Grant - Clear case of INTJ diagnosis

-And-

Katic Couric - From what I have read

[ar·chi·tect]

Read this article description of Hitler. Could it be true? Does this not sound like an INTJ?

h.t.t.p.:././.w.w.w...m.o.t.s.t.a.n.d...o.r.g./.h.i.t.l.e.r...h.t.m.l.

[ar·chi·tect]

Iron Self-Control
At the very end of his life, to be sure, his back had become bent, but his mind remained as clear as a flash of lightening. The testament he dictated with extraordinary composure on the eve of his death, at three in the morning of April 29, 1945, provides us a lasting testimony. Napoleon at Fontainebleau was not without his moments of panic before his abdication. Hitler simply shook hands with his associates in silence, breakfasted as on any other day, then went to his death as if he were going on a stroll. When has history ever witnessed so enormous a tragedy brought to its end with such iron self control?

Hitler's most notable characteristic was ever his simplicity. The most complex of problems resolved itself in his mind into a few basic principles. His actions were geared to ideas and decisions that could be understood by anyone. The laborer from Essen, the isolated farmer, the Ruhr industrialist, and the university professor could all easily follow his line of thought. The very clarity of his reasoning made everything obvious.

His behaviour and his life style never changed even when he became the ruler of Germany. He dressed and lived frugally. During his early days in Munich, he spend no more than a mark per day for food. At no stage in his life did he spend anything on himself. Throughout his 13 years in the chancellery he never carried a wallet or ever had money of his own.

Computer-Like Mind
Hitler was self-taught and made not attempt to hide the fact. The smug conceit of intellectuals, their shiny ideas packaged like so many flashlight batteries, irritated him at times. His own knowledge he had acquired through selective and unremitting study, and he knew far more than thousands of diploma-decorated academics. I don't think anyone ever read as much as he did. He normally read one book every day, always first reading the conclusion and the index in order to gauge the work's interest for him. He had the power to extract the essence of each book and then store it in his computer-like mind. I have heard him talk about complicated scientific books with faultless precision, even at the height of the war.

His intellectual curiosity was limitless. He was readily familiar with the writings of the most diverse authors, and nothing was too complex for his comprehension. He had a deep knowledge and understanding of Buddha, Confucius and Jesus Christ, as well as Luther, Calvin, and Savonarola; of literary giants such as Dante, Schiller, Shakespeare and Goethe; and analytical writers such as Renan and Gobineau, Chamberlain and Sorel.
He had trained himself in philosophy by studying Aristotle and Plato. He could quote entire paragraphs of Schopenhauer from memory, and for a long time carried a pocked edition of Schopenhauer with him. Nietzsche taught him much about the willpower.

His thirst for knowledge was unquenchable. He spend hundreds of hours studying the works of Tacitus and Mommsen, military strategists such as Clausewitz, and empire builders such as Bismark. Nothing escaped him: world history or the history of civilizations, the study of the Bible and the Talmud, Thomistic philosophy and all the masterpieces of Homer, Sophocles, Horace, Ovid, Titus Livius and Cicero. He knew Julian the Apostate as if he had been his contemporary.

His knowledge also extended to mechanics. He knew how engines worked; he understood the ballistics of various weapons; and he astonished the best medical scientists with his knowledge of medicine and biology.

The universality of Hitler's knowledge may surprise or displease those unaware of it, but it is nonetheless a historical fact: Hitler was one of the most cultivated men of this century. Many times more so than Churchill, an intellectual mediocrity; or than Pierre Lavaal, with him mere cursory knowledge of history; of than Roosevelt; or Eisenhower, who never got beyond detective novels.

The Young Architect
Even during his earliest years, Hitler was different than other children. He had an inner strength and was guided by his spirit and his instincts.

He could draw skillfully when he was only eleven years old. His sketches made at that age show a remarkable firmness and liveliness. He first paintings and watercolors, created at age 15, are full of poetry and sensitivity. One of his most striking early works, Fortress Utopia,' also shows him to have been an artist of rare imagination. His artistic orientation took many forms. He wrote poetry from the time he was a lad. He dictated a complete play to his sister Paula who was amazed at his presumption. At the age of 16, in Vienna, he launched into the creation of an opera. He even designed the stage settings, as well as all the costumes; and, of course, the characters were Wagnerian heroes.

More than just an artist, Hitler was above all an architect. Hundreds of his works were notable as much for the architecture as for the painting. From memory alone he could reproduce in every detail the onion dome of a church or the intricate curves of wrought iron. Indeed, it was to fulfill his dream of becoming an architect that Hitler went to Vienna at the beginning of the century.

When one sees the hundreds of paintings, sketches and drawings he created at the time, which reveal his mastery of three dimensional figures, it is astounding that his examiners at the Fine Arts Academy failed him in two successive examinations. German historian Werner Maser, no friend of Hitler, castigated these examiners: "All of his works revealed extraordinary architectural gifts and knowledge. The builder of the Third Reich gives the former Fine Arts Academy of Vienna cause for shame."

In his room, Hitler always displayed an old photograph of his mother. The memory of the mother he loved was with him until the day he died. Before leaving this earth, on April 30, 1945, he placed his mother's photograph in front of him. She had blue eyes like his and a similar face. Her maternal intuition told her that her son was different from other children. She acted almost as if she knew her son's destiny. When she died, she felt anguished by the immense mystery surrounding her son.

[rocksteady]

yes it does!

[Kirkaine]

Ayn Rand, an absolutely brilliant woman.

[unbeliever]

I think that there are two others to go along with Hitler..

Ted Kaczynski and Timothy McVeigh.

I've read the manifesto by Kaczynski and am quite sure that he is. That was very perceptive writing, by the way. He obviously went crazy, but he also had a lot of insight.

McVeigh probably was too. I tend to think that obsessions come easily to the INTJ type.

[senormosca]

I think that there are two others to go along with Hitler..

Ted Kaczynski and Timothy McVeigh.

I've read the manifesto by Kaczynski and am quite sure that he is. That was very perceptive writing, by the way. He obviously went crazy, but he also had a lot of insight.

McVeigh probably was too. I tend to think that obsessions come easily to the INTJ type.

I think you may be confusing psychopathic behavior with a true INTJ. I guess its debatable whether Kacynski and McVeigh were psychopaths or INTJs, but their willingness to end a large amount of innocent lives for the sake of an ideology makes me suspect that they tend towards the latter.

This article articulates the differences between the two designations:
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[Antares]

Ludwig van Beethoven sounds like an INTJ to me after I researched his personality. He does seem to have a strong Fi though. His disdain for common curtesies, irrational respect for authorities etc. He's clearly introverted, intuitive and thinking (He voices his opinions bluntly). Not sure about judging or perceiving. I tend to think judging because he is very firm on his decision and beliefs.

[Jgib5328]

In his room, Hitler always displayed an old photograph of his mother. The memory of the mother he loved was with him until the day he died. Before leaving this earth, on April 30, 1945, he placed his mother's photograph in front of him. She had blue eyes like his and a similar face. Her maternal intuition told her that her son was different from other children. She acted almost as if she knew her son's destiny. When she died, she felt anguished by the immense mystery surrounding her son.

I heard that Hitler was an an ISF. He isn't a T, he had way too much passion and was way too emotional for that. I heard he was pretty disorganized of a person too, and didn't always carry out his plans effectively. He clearly wasn't normal mentally, so it's hard to type him.

[eternaltriangle]

Apart from these...
Augustus Caesar (Gaius Julius Caesar Octavianus)
Jane Austen (Pride and Prejudice)
Michael Dukakis, governor of Mass., 1988 U.S. Dem. pres. candidate
Hannibal, Carthaginian military leader

U.S. Presidents:
Chester A. Arthur
Calvin Coolidge
Thomas Jefferson
John F. Kennedy
James K. Polk
Woodrow Wilson

Anyone notice any other historical figures who may be an INTJ
[hr]
Side Note: Considering INTJs are not attracted to leadership roles... it's odd that there should be so many INTJs among US presidents.

I would suggest that a lot of these are not INTJ's... firstly...

Augustus was a very emotional man - a loving husband (to a shrew of a wife) and father (even though he kind of executed his daughter). Moreover, he was a spendthrift in office, spending on bread and circuses. He was a softy, which would fit him as an INFJ.

Jefferson and JFK: no way are these two lady's men INTJ's. They are definitely extroverted, for starters. Moreover, Jefferson's constitution was wholly impractical - and would have been a flop without the federalist papers.

I presume that you put Woodrow Wilson in there because he was an academic (a lousy academic whose predictions regarding the relative power of congress and the president soon turned out to be wrong). The League of Nations, however - his brainchild - does not seem like the kind of construct an INTJ would put together. It was based on the idea that fellow feeling and public opinion would push league members to defend each other.

As to the others, lets have a bit more defence of each of these before we throw them out there.





eternaltriangle added to this post, 12 minutes and 48 seconds later...

It seems like there is a tendency to throw in anybody we figure is smart, and call them an INTJ.

Based on my thoroughly objective analysis I would put forth Napoleon Bonaparte as a strong case. He had the logic (and pompousity) of an TJ, he was not the most outgoing or agreable person (so I), and he was able to think in the big picture, rather than being a micro-manager (so N rather than S).

I would put forth Richard Nixon as an INTJ as well. Nixon has been traditionally viewed as the guardian type, but this is not really based on facts. Firstly, he was clearly an introvert - he was uncharismatic, and only succeeded in politics (and romance) through persistence and guile. Secondly, his administration involved an abstract and grand strategic approach that, in terms of political entrepreneurship, involved far more outside of the box thinking than with his opponents. In particular: Nixon's foreign policy was based on triangular diplomacy (rather than country-to-country negotiation). This enabled Nixon to get out of Vietnam, while improving America's strategic position. Another good example regards Nixon's understanding the opportunities for the Republican party of a "southern strategy", winning over the solid south. Thirdly, it is fairly obvious he was a TJ - no touchy feely stuff for Nixon.

[Antares]

Augustus was a very emotional man - a loving husband (to a shrew of a wife) and father (even though he kind of executed his daughter). Moreover, he was a spendthrift in office, spending on bread and circuses. He was a softy, which would fit him as an INFJ.

Just because he was loving to his family doesn't mean he's not a thinker. His personal likings doesn't count either. I like spending money too; does that make me any less an INTJ?

Octavian was a shrewd, brilliant and astute politician. Through cold, hard political calculation he was able to achieve ultimate power in Rome. At the time of Caesar's assassination, Octavian held no official position. Only after he marched on Rome and forced the senate to name him consul, was he established as a power to be reckoned with.

He worked with and then defeated Mark Antony and managed that arch manipulator and ruthless queen Cleopatra very smoothly.

[Patronus]

the typology for the presidential candidates displayed here seems so wrong (i at least hope it is)

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[cncracer]

INTJ's in politics :). I think the reason why there are so many INTJ presidents may be due to them not standing up for the job until they were certain, most of the greatest leaders suddenly seem to appear out of nowhere.

Sounds like we need one now.