An INFP...Lawyer

[ChrisnOrbit]

Ok bear with me here. I have had a hard time pegging what career would be the best for me. I looked into psychology but it seems like everyone is majoring in that. I looked into game design but I'm not sure if I can see myself doing that for the rest of my life.

I was talking with my mom and we discuussed some things I could consider for my major. Law was something that stuck out to me. For some reason I feel like it is something I can do for the rest of my life while still helping others. I brought this up to a few people and all they really said was "You can do anything you want to do. I think you can be a good lawyer." I've had enough of those responses though. I need to know the truth. What will be hard for me trying to get this sort of degree? Will there be anything in particular that I need to watch out for? Will me being an INFP hinder my success? I figured you INTJs would be able to set me straight. I am tired of all the support I'm getting, I need the cold hard truth. Thanks guys. ;)

[Szarra]

I'm not a lawyer but I could play one on tv...

How are your organizational skills? Do you mind getting up and speaking in front of people? Do you like puzzles? Do you like reading? Do you have a good memory? Can you focus on the details as well as the big picture? Do you like working long hours? Do you like going to school? Can you be unbiased if you get stuck defending someone you may find personally repugnant? I think it would also depend on what type of lawyer you want to be, but to me you would need to have positive answers for these questions to start with.

[Motor Jax]

if you look at the whole of society, not everyone is studying one thing

i've met people who have studied psychology, but they don't represent the whole society. maybe a small part of it. if that's what you find yourself surrounded by psychology then at least you would have help if you choose that field. i'm only stating this since in your post, the tone says that's what you want to do, but you don't seem to want to follow the crowd

anyways, what do you feel you want to do?

[Tenacious B]

Being a feeler I wonder if you would be able to make a ruling that goes against your own opinion. To overcome the emotion "I feel/believe/"know" this is so wrong!"


But there are plenty of lawyers in the world (too many;)), and I'm some of them are INFP.


The problem with lawyer jokes is that most people don't think they are jokes and lawyers don't think they are funny.

[ChrisnOrbit]

I'm not a lawyer but I could play one on tv...

How are your organizational skills? Do you mind getting up and speaking in front of people? Do you like puzzles? Do you like reading? Do you have a good memory? Can you focus on the details as well as the big picture? Do you like working long hours? Do you like going to school? Can you be unbiased if you get stuck defending someone you may find personally repugnant? I think it would also depend on what type of lawyer you want to be, but to me you would need to have positive answers for these questions to start with.
hm id say i have 70% of those traits. Thats a good thing though. I need to know what I have to work on in order to be successful. I am not sure what sort of lawyer I want to be. Honestly I'd rather not work at a firm but I need to look into my options first. Thanks for the tips.

if you look at the whole of society, not everyone is studying one thing

i've met people who have studied psychology, but they don't represent the whole society. maybe a small part of it. if that's what you find yourself surrounded by psychology then at least you would have help if you choose that field. i'm only stating this since in your post, the tone says that's what you want to do, but you don't seem to want to follow the crowd

anyways, what do you feel you want to do?

You're right. Its not that I am going against what everyone is doing because I am a huge nonconformist, I just need to be able to get a job once I am out of college. Psychology is interesting to me and I rather enjoy learning it but I feel as though the demand and hype for psychologists have been watered down considerably.

Its hard to say what I "want".. I have a hard time deciding that myself. I feel as though I should be contributing to society in some way but not neccesarily in the spotlight. I want to help others if I can, and I don't want to adhere to a tight schedule if possible.

Being a feeler I wonder if you would be able to make a ruling that goes against your own opinion. To overcome the emotion "I feel/believe/"know" this is so wrong!"


But there are plenty of lawyers in the world (too many;)), and I'm some of them are INFP.


The problem with lawyer jokes is that most people don't think they are jokes and lawyers don't think they are funny.

Thats something I was thinking about. I'm actually not as touchy feely as INFPs are assumed to be. I'm able to make unbiased judgements if that is what needs to be done. The only thing that would be hard would be to defend someone in an emotionally charged case. That would just mess everything up for me. My emotions don't cloud my judgement but other peoples' emotions do. This is why I want to avoid being the type of lawyer who does courtroom cases alot ;)

[Mogura]

Ok bear with me here. I have had a hard time pegging what career would be the best for me. I looked into psychology but it seems like everyone is majoring in that.

The question is, are you interested in psychology? Did you take a course or two and really enjoyed it? Is it something your can see yourself doing as a career? Psychology may be your thing (or it may not).

If it seems that everyone is majoring in psychology, and that is the only thing discouraging you from the field, then you shouldn't let it. Instead you should say to yourself, "Everyone is majoring in psychology... how can I set myself apart from the crowd?" A major in psychology with a minor in business? Double major with a foreign language? Educational concentration in education/counseling? The possibilities are endless.

Are you in the U.S.? Pre-law in U.S. universities permit just about any major field of study. If law school is your goal, then you want to choose a major you are interested in, which will inspire you to study hard and get good grades (which are necessary to get into law school).

[Advocate]

Well...

I think like anything you have to commit to it. It's not a case of you "feel like doing it cos it sounds ok", you have to commit to it, know why you are doing it and feel some soft of passion for what you do.

Law is a slog. You need an extreme attention to detail, a want/desire/need to argue and some sort of end objective that you need a law degree for.
You WILL miss sleep, you WILL piss people off, you WILL end up being a less nice person (in some, if not a lot of other people's eyes). Law is a career, not a job you just walk into and leave alone at the end of the day; it really does become your life.

I think one of the biggest things with such a degree is that other people really do not understand. "How can you defend murderers and rapists" et cetera

With that said, you really do get the chance to see how your society operates, having been given the mental tools to pick apart and look at society as a whole. Plus the pay can be, potentially, pretty sexy.

Can you study most of your waking life? Can you handle endless conflict, picking through lengthy (from a couple of pages to hundreds) court judgments? Only you can answer that.

As for your type? Who cares. Perseverance and Heart overcomes anything else.

Yeah I know, my rant sounds dramatic. I'm 3 and a half years through a law degree, one year through a business one (majoring in commerce, management and entrepreneurship). And I know people in the profession very well. I figure I have some kind of understanding.

Hope that helps
P.S. Life is simple, you really can do anything you want :) Good Luck with your decision.

[BadgerDad]

Having practiced law for 25 years, I can tell you that the vast, vast majority of lawyers are either INTJ or ISTJ.

As an INFP, you're probably not smart enough, and you certainly would'nt fit in, or feel comfortable with, the legal community.

You would be best served exploring other career options.

[Henry]

Ok bear with me here. I have had a hard time pegging what career would be the best for me. I looked into psychology but it seems like everyone is majoring in that. I looked into game design but I'm not sure if I can see myself doing that for the rest of my life.

I was talking with my mom and we discuussed some things I could consider for my major. Law was something that stuck out to me. For some reason I feel like it is something I can do for the rest of my life while still helping others. I brought this up to a few people and all they really said was "You can do anything you want to do. I think you can be a good lawyer." I've had enough of those responses though. I need to know the truth. What will be hard for me trying to get this sort of degree? Will there be anything in particular that I need to watch out for? Will me being an INFP hinder my success? I figured you INTJs would be able to set me straight. I am tired of all the support I'm getting, I need the cold hard truth. Thanks guys. ;)

I work with attorneys a lot. Not recommended for an NF. They argue incessantly. They lie. They deceive. They use underhanded tactics. In order to defend against these measures, you'd probably have to do a lot of this yourself. So not recommended.

[Nikita]

The hardest part of law school is learning how to think like everybody else and give a linear and logical progression of your analysis. If this sounds like something you would enjoy, go for it.

Having practiced law for 25 years, I can tell you that the vast, vast majority of lawyers are either INTJ or ISTJ.

As an INFP, you're probably not smart enough, and you certainly would'nt fit in, or feel comfortable with, the legal community.

You would be best served exploring other career options.

If you go to law school you get the lovely pleasure of being around some people who are like BadgerDad (see spoiler above), wrapped up in their own egos to the exclusion of humanity. Any type can be smart enough for law school. There were plenty of idiots who did very well in law school because they could read books, retain information, and do exactly what the professor told them to do. These same people couldn't generally think their way out of a paper bag in an unfamiliar situation, but by golly they could analyze a hypothetical legal problem using book learnin'. In law school, your papers should look just like everyone else's. If there's a choice whether to go pro or con, the pros should include roughly the same arguments, and the cons should contain roughly the same arguments, and all should be structured exactly the same: Topic/Issue, Rule, Rule Explanation, Application, Conclusion. Congratulations, you've achieved conformity!

[ElstonGunn]

I am not sure what sort of lawyer I want to be. Honestly I'd rather not work at a firm but I need to look into my options first.

Would you necessarily want to be a trial lawyer? There's other types of lawyers, like business guys, or the dude who's sitting in the background when you're going over your grandma's will. Would one of those appeal to you?

[Nikita]

Would you necessarily want to be a trial lawyer? There's other types of lawyers, like business guys, or the dude who's sitting in the background when you're going over your grandma's will. Would one of those appeal to you?

Yep, transactional attorneys. It's a lot less stressful, though considered a bit boring. In terms of office environments, there are big differences even in firm size:

- Big firms will pay quite a bit (125k+ starting out, 160k in some places), but you'll work 60-80 hours per week (I have a friend who works at a big firm, and even though she's part time, there was a big project that required her to work 100 hours per week, 2 weeks in a row, and I am not exaggerating, she was told more than once to pack a bag b/c she was going to be there for awhile...she went in Thurs. morning around 7 or 8am and didn't go home until Sat. afternoon around 2 or 3pm).

- Mid-size firms aren't quite as bad, the pay's lower (80-90k or so), but the hours won't be quite as insane, though 50-60 hour weeks are probably normal.

- Small firms can be great for people with families, but the pay is even less (50k-60k range I think).

- There are also government positions. DAs have more typical work hours unless a trial is coming up, plus you get some tuition reimbursement in most places. Various legislative bodies use attorneys to review new laws and update code books.

- You won't go in-house at a corporation without at least 2-3 years firm or government experience under your belt, but it can be something to go towards if you'd think you'd like that. One advantage is that you have 1 client, the corporation (and its subsidiaries), so you have kind of a niche market. It's a lot easier than having clients come to you with an assortment of legal problems and backgrounds.

- Another option is Legal Aid, a non-profit law firm, they have them in every state and most major cities, I believe, serving specific regions. The hours are more like 8-6 (unless preparing for trial), but the pay is more in the 30k-40k range).

I think the practice area will help to nail down where you'd be looking to work.

ADVICE: Sit in on some law classes at a law school (esp. some first year ones like Contracts, Legal Research & Writing, and Civil Procedure...though CivPro may bore you out of even thinking about going, and also one or two 2nd or 3rd year classes in areas you think you might like), I'm sure you can arrange this with Student Affairs. That way you'll know what you're getting into.

[gregbataille]

To consider the accuracy of badgerdads assumptions, here is an article, not perfectly documented but seemingly legit, on the correlation of myers briggs and IQ.

"libertycorner.blogspot.com/2004/03/iq-and-personality.html"
this is my first post, so this link is not clickable...

some relavent facts:
Other personality traits being the same, an iNtuitive person (one who grasps patterns and seeks possibilities) is 27 times more likely to have a high IQ than a Sensing person (one who focuses on sensory details and the here-and-now).
Again, other traits being the same, an Introverted person is 8 times more likely to have a high IQ than one who is Extraverted; a Thinking (logic-oriented) person is 2.5 times more likely to have a high IQ than a Feeling (people-oriented) person; and a Judging person (one who seeks closure) is about twice as likely to have a high IQ than a Perceiving person (one who likes to keep his options open).
INFP's are usually correlated with high IQ, and highly intuitive folks in geral are very strongly correlated with high IQ.


Doesn't really support the idea that INFP's would "probably not be smart enough".

Maybe it would be more accurate to say INFP's would likely not be objective & logical enough? It does bear out that the types badgerdad mentions INTJ an ISTJ seem suited to law/intellectually demanding work.

I am INFP applying to law school. I have a very high IQ and very high LSAT score, but
i am not at all sure that my personality includes the detail-loving competetive qualities that i believe characterize the folks who most often thrive in practicing law.

[une fille]

Majoring in psychology and becoming a psychologist/psychiatrist are very different things. Most people who major in psych aren't smart enough to grasp the concepts or apply them properly, so don't count yourself in the majority if you're competent.

Law school doesn't seem like it would be too bad if you decide to go through with it. I've made the decision to do so, and I enjoy the material I've been reviewing in preparation. As an INFJ, perhaps something like working within international law for human rights would be fitting? The pay isn't amazing unless you're pretty important, but it's definitely a worthwhile occupation.

[dogwoodlover]

If you want to be a lawyer, you're probably not an INFP.

I once thought I was an INFP... took me a bit to figure that one out.


EDIT: libertycorner.blogspot.com/2004/03/iq-and-personality.html

The supposed results from the above article are appealing to me as an INTJ (it essentially said we are statistically the most likely of all personality types to have a high IQ), but I find them questionable. It most certainly seems strange that there was no reference or citation regarding said study.

[Kisai]

You do not need to be smart to be a lawyer.

You do need to be methodical.

I have met some idealists who went into law. Law is actually a pretty broad field. You probably don't want to be a trial lawyer, it can be a shark tank on emotions.

[More Tea]

I'm an attorney who usually scores INTJ, but I am very borderline on the T and J. So, yes, I sometimes get pegged as an INFP lawyer, depending.

I think some of the above posters have covered some good ground, especially as far as transactional versus litigation work goes. BadgerDad is, alas, a reflection of some of what you will see in law school and in practice. The profession is losing a good deal of its civility, which is a very bad thing. Will the legal profession continue to be self-regulating for decades to come if we behave like complete jerks and think only of short-term gains? Probably not. Professionalism need not compromise diligence, but that message seems to be lost sometimes.

Now, let's get down to the practical aspects, and some of the things that you will *not* hear from law schools. Remember, any law school is selling a product, a Juris Doctor. They do not have your personal interests at heart.

First, be aware that the market is very, very hard for entry-level attorneys right now. You can expect to spend a year or more on your job hunt, all while you are sitting on 100K of debt. I personally know one fellow who graduated number one in his class from a top-tier school, served on law review, and who was a CPA to boot. It took over a year to find his first job. I wish I were joking.

A lot of new attorneys end up in something called document review. Basically, you are paid an hourly wage to review documents for their relevancy to pending litigation. It is sporadic work, and--in the area I live in, at least--the competition is stiff even for these projects. Even when you think you finally have a project lined up, the case can settle (story of my life part of last year). As one recruiter put it, it's a lot like tossing a tiny piece of meat into a tank full of piranhas out there lately. There are too many new attorneys and too few jobs.

So, you may want to seriously think through your finances. Who is paying for school? Do you have a fallback for after, should you not be one of the lucky few who line up a job before graduation?

If you have flexibility in moving, that opens some doors. Also, if you are willing to practice in a contentious field like family law (divorces, custody), that opens up more doors, as there seems to always be a demand for that sort of work (warning: family law is probably the most emotionally draining area out there, IMO).

In any case, I would strongly suggest shadowing a few practicing attorneys in your geographical area, if that is an option. See what the day-to-day life is like. Law school gives you theory: the realities of the various jobs out there can be quite different. As one judge put it, it is like a mechanic going to school to learn about internal combustion engines, but never once learning how to actually change a car's oil.

Oh, I will add that many firms expect you to "sink or swim" early on. Despite the fact you have never "changed oil" before, you very well might be expected to do so, with minimal to no supervision. A big part of the litigation side, at least, is thinking very quickly on your feet and learning as you go along. This can grow tiring very quickly.

If you do go to law school, expect to encounter many cliques and much mindless competition for the sake of competition. It's like going back to high school--you'll even find a Facebook group on that very topic. Unfortunately, this sort of thing is not specific to one law school.

Finally, be aware that many, many people go into law with the intent of helping others. That doesn't necessarily pan out, though... one very intelligent lady I talked to at a recent CLE (continuing legal education) described going into law as the worst mistake of her life. I'd be saying the same thing, if I did not have financial fall-backs and the luxury of being able to look for a job that actually fits.

I hope this small novel has been of some help. I think it is vital to share some of the realities that face potential new attorneys.