Superhero INTJs?

[TheEnlightenedOne]

I've seen on some forums that people believe all Heroes/Superheroes to be INTPs, while all supervillains are INTJs. I believe this is an oversimplification and definitely not true at all. One such arguer for the INTP Superhero theory even stated (ignorantly) that Gandalf was an INTP, while most lists confirm Gandalf to be an INTJ.

Can anyone come up with any good guy superhero examples of INTJs?

[Terian]

Not exactly a superhero, but: Ender from Ender's Game was most likely an INTJ (as was his evil brother, but still).

[TheEnlightenedOne]

Ender from Ender's Game was most likely an INTJ (as was his evil brother, but still).

Heh... I figured as much. He was probably my favorite protagonist of any book series I read growing up.

I would hope there are SOME INTJ superheroes out there to save the world from its own ignorance/stupidity/illogic nature/misleading feelings.

I've heard a rumor that Mr. Fantastic (Reed Richards) is probably an INTJ? That would make sense. Can anyone think of anybody else?

[brad]

Not exactly a superhero, but: Ender from Ender's Game was most likely an INTJ (as was his evil brother, but still).

Holy crap, never noticed that. Somehow, my childhood obsession with Ender is justified.

[Airfire]

I cannot think of any INTJ superheroes, really. I don't think it's logically possible to have one, in my opinion. We tend to accurately (and very well) portray antagonistic qualities, which is why INTJs make good villains.

TheEnlightenedOne, I think it may be wiser to consider that INTJs can make fantastic, if not ideal, Anti-Heroes-- of which there are a few (Batman comes to mind).

[Octavianus Caesar]

Batman/Bruce Wayne
The Punisher

[Mozzes]

I would say there's a chance that Professor X and Cyclops/Scott Summers from the Marvel multiverse are INTJs. They sure as hell aren't INTPs.

In Marvel comics not very many heroes seem INTP to me at all. The only ones I can think of right now are Spider Man/Peter Parker and maybe Iceman.

[zoophilia]

i think professor x was infj and cyclops istj. batman/punisher = istp me thinks. i think paul atreides from the Dune universe is a good example of an intj though as well as his mentat Thufir Hawat. also, maybe mr. fantastic? (though he is lame)

i don't know. i think they might be in more literary/sci-fi geared things because intjs tend to have greater interest in those areas and thus their ideals tend to be more embodied there as they contribute to those fields? kood example would be ambassador kosh from babylon 5. though he not exactly a hero (but he does the right thing in the end)

[murkrow]

yeah the punisher was my first thought.

Prof X is a possibility, I don't think Cyke has the independence of an INTJ though.

lately Iron Man's been acting pretty INTJ too.

[Mozzes]

yeah the punisher was my first thought.

Prof X is a possibility, I don't think Cyke has the independence of an INTJ though.

lately Iron Man's been acting pretty INTJ too.

The thing about comics is it sometimes depends on which continuity/series you read.

In the comics Iron Man definitely is an INTJ or ENTJ especially if you consider his actions in the Illuminati leading up to Civil War and World War Hulk.

In the movie, however, he seemed a lot more like an ESTP. My opinion, at least.

[Uberfuhrer]

Tony Stark/Iron Man in the movie is such an ENTP, it's not even funny. It was as if he was born out of Keirsey's description of the ENTP Inventor.

[punkyplatypus]

I think Mr. Fantastic of the Fantastic Four is an INTJ.
I'm not sure if they are but the Green Lanterns Hal Jordan & John Stewert seem to have some INTJ tendencies. So does the Martian Manhunter.

[Rudy]

"The Question", from Justice League

[Kisai]

Regarding:

Ender: It's tricky to decide. His natural inclination might as well be E, but he was isolated by his status as a Third, his insane brother, and purposely isolated by the military. I haven't read any further books. So I'll pass.

Mr. Fantastic is INTP. It's Doctor Doom who's the INTJ.

Tony Stark is currently an ENTP. I say 'currently' because characters personalities change according to the writing team and the zeitgeist. He may very well have been conceived as an INTJ.

I'll go with Prof. X being INTJ. Maybe Magneto too when he's friendly. When Magneto's on the human genocide kick he's ISTJ.

Cyclops is an extraverted Introvert. He's never had much of a definite personality to me, so different writers take advantage of that hole. I think Joss Whedon made him an INFJ, though on his Astonishing X-men run.

Spider-man's an INTP.

Batman changes a lot. I think classically he's ISTJ, but I've seen INFJ and INTJ versions, and Adam West's goofy ESFJ takeoff.

The Punisher is also ISTJ.

[Storm]

On Facebook there's an applicatioon called MyType, and one of the bonus features of it allows people to rate 3 superheoros: Batman, Superman, and Spiderman.
Out of about 220 ratings the results are:
Superman: ESFJ
Batman: ENTP
Spider man: INTJ

I'm surprised at people's seeing of Spiderman. He's a bit of a nerd, but he never came off as a thinker to me, more of a feeler, making him maybe an INFJ.

I vote for Batman as an INTJ over ENTP. He never seemed that extroverted since he only engaged in social situtations for appearances and power, not because he enjoyed it. He also is decisive (J over P).

[SShack]

Y'all will probably think I'm crazy about this, but I mentioned it another thread: Storm.

Granted, she started off as a bit of a nature hippie earth mother type, but has changed a whole lot since then. She had to learn to control her feelings in order to keep her power under control. She is a very pragmatic, rational leader, even more that Cyclops, and did not shy away from making really tough decisions. She intuitively uses her powers in creative, different ways. She can also be pretty hard for outsiders to get to know, which actually manifests by different writers having a hard time writing her.

It's possible she's more of an INTP though, given her sort of holistic attitude, but I wanted to toss that out there.

Iron Man is indeed an ENTP these days, though I do think he started off as an INTP or INTJ.

What about Kitty Pryde? Actually, I think she might be ENTJ. Or possibly ENFJ.

[Kisai]

I'm surprised at people's seeing of Spiderman. He's a bit of a nerd, but he never came off as a thinker to me, more of a feeler, making him maybe an INFJ.

One of the interesting things about Spider-Man is that he really has two creators, Stan Lee, which mainly gets the credit, and Steve Dikto, the artist. Because of Stan Lee's "How to Make Comics the Marvel Way" method, leaving the writer to just broadly outline scripts, Steve had a great amount of say in the direction of the character development.

Steve Dikto is responsible for keeping characters like J. Jonah Jameson and Aunt May in the story,as well as keeping Peter Parker a normal teenager. Stan Lee didn't like having Peter run around as Peter and not as Spider-Man, so they compromised with those classic 'half Spider-Man mask' shots. Steve Dikto is the true creator of Spider-Man, as far as I'm concerned.

[boldbidder]

Batman/Bruce Wayne of the recent film reboot (Batman Begins, The Dark Knight) is definitely an INTJ. In the comics he's been all over the place.

I'd also like to throw Daredevil's hat into the ring as a potential INTJ.

[maxpot46]

I agree with Batman and Storm being INTJ (nice call on Storm).

Also, Brainiac 5 of the Legion of Super Heroes -- maybe INTP but I get an INTJ vibe off of him (arrogant, anti-social, extremely blunt).

[darynthe]

What type is Clark Kent?? I am interested in the Smallville characterization. ISFP?

[Kisai]

I forgot about Brainiac 5, he's such an INTJ. Considers himself a Level 12 intelligence, considers Earth, the whole planet put together, as a Level 9.

I haven't watched any Smallville. I know that Grant Morrison's run on All Star Superman, which was really good, had Superman as an ENFP.

[Undead Bonzi]

Not exactly a superhero, but: Ender from Ender's Game was most likely an INTJ (as was his evil brother, but still).

I would disagree with that. At the end of the book you find out the whole reason they needed Ender was because he had an astounding degree of empathy and sympathy for his 'enemy'. Because of this they had to trick him into committing the actual xenocide because he would have never done it voluntarily. To be honest Ender strikes me as having strong E, F and P attributes simply because he always wanted to be friends with people, he always empathized and understood his opponents and he never seemed to have his own belief structure which he imposed on a situation, he took things as they were. Though his end actions were very INTJ you have to remember that Ender was manipulated or coerced into doing many of those actions so what we see isn't the real person, its the tool that other people used.

The danger of this sort of fictional character typing is that these are not real people. What is more is that we have an inherent desire to associate ourselves with things and people that we like or admire. Thus on an INTJ forum you get scads of people saying people/characters x, y and z were surely INTJs. The same is true on INTP central. The honest truth is that most characters are an amalgamation of many different types positive traits, not one single type.

[darynthe]

Interesting. I think you are right on about Ender. He never hit me as any type in particular. But if we would have to peg him with something maybe IN.

I find Bean a more intersting character though. What personality do you think he is? I truly adore him.

[Shorgenfunkel]

I mentioned this in the "INTJs in fiction" thread, but it needs a mention here. He's not exactly a superhero either, but a game hero.

Zero from the Mega Man X series.

Another possible type is ISTP, but INTJ seems a lot closer, especially because of the more acute need for solitude, and the "aura of definiteness."

[Rudy]

In addition to The Question, what about Rorschach?

[Undead Bonzi]

Interesting. I think you are right on about Ender. He never hit me as any type in particular. But if we would have to peg him with something maybe IN.

I find Bean a more intersting character though. What personality do you think he is? I truly adore him.

As far as Bean is portrayed in Enders Game its impossible to really type him. The only characters you really touch in Enders Game are Ender, Graff and Valentine. The rest are just sort of background. Now if you read the books about Bean following Enders game you get the impression that Bean leans to INTJ with a sprinkling of E and P. Unlike Ender, Bean does have a belief or system of logic he tries to impose on others so the 'J' is there. At the same time you have to remember that in the first book Ender tasks Bean with thinking up and trying impossible and ostensibly silly things to be prepared for every angle which would conflict with an INTJ's practical mind and might be called something closer to ENTP or ISTP.

To be honest I think Card should have started and ended it with Enders Game. He should not have published the others, they inevitably fall short of the first. The series that follows Bean tells you that he was the product of a genetic engineering project blah blah blah which is a waste of a cool character IMO. The best part of Ender was that these were ordinary extraordinary children using their natural minds and emotions to combat a problem (The Bean series falls into the tired rut of Sci-Fi superhuman blah). It was a lessening of Bean as a character in my book. The series that follows Ender is also a disappointment. In the following books Ender seems to become this weak tool who is never really happy. At the end of Enders Game you know he has left behind those who control and worship him and set off on a journey with the sister he loved and to be honest that was all I wanted to know about Ender.

[darynthe]

I read all the books except the last one of Bean, I think where he is a giant. I agree that Ender story should have stopped in the first book. I particularly dislike Novinha.

However, the Ender's shadow is fascinating to me. I think Bean genetic origin is not as interesting as his survival instinct and the genius of his plans. After reading his perspective I felt he was more worthy of being the savior than Ender.

I just wonder why Bean is Ender's shadow. Their personalities are not contradictory.

[Kisai]

In addition to The Question, what about Rorschach?

ISTJ. It's had to place the N/S, but I'm leaning towards S. He sees things as very black and white. But he's unconventional in combat. Yet, he's very methodical and repetitive when trying to solve a crime i.e. go to every underworld hideout and rough people up. He's not N though, he didn't put any of the pieces together, they fell in his lap.

[Rudy]

ISTJ. It's had to place the N/S, but I'm leaning towards S. He sees things as very black and white. But he's unconventional in combat. Yet, he's very methodical and repetitive when trying to solve a crime i.e. go to every underworld hideout and rough people up. He's not N though, he didn't put any of the pieces together, they fell in his lap.

Hmm. Yeah, I can buy ISTJ for Rorshach, but I'm sticking with INTJ for The Question. He definitely does put the pieces together.

[naughtysnail]

Not superheroes, but personally I would put forward Professor Snape (Harry Potter) and Gandalf (Lord of the Rings). I'm a fantasy person, I can't help it :P

[Rudy]

Gandalf is generally agreed to be an INTJ. I've heard people argue for both INTJ and ISTJ for Snape.

[naughtysnail]

I've heard people argue for both INTJ and ISTJ for Snape.

Previous to DH I would have agreed ISTJ, but the way he handled the Lily situation in his teenage years would suggest INTJ to me. He looked at Lily, looked at the Death Eaters, and chose the one that was more likely to advance him. He regretted it later, but it was still a decision he made. Also, from what I've read, I doubt the ISTJ would give a direct racial slur on someone they loved/were courting. Oh bugger, it looks like what I'm saying is he started as an INTJ when he was evil, and became ISTJ when he was good.

Bugger.

[Rudy]

Hmm. Never read the last book, since the 6th pissed me off so much, so I can't say in regards to Lily.

To make you feel even worse, Voldemort is definitely INTJ.

[Kisai]

Snape's old alchemy book (The Half-Blood Prince) reveals a brilliance of invention that is characteristically NT. He just fell in with the wrong crowd.

I'm going to nudge Voldemort towards ISTJ, just because I don't like him...

[Rudy]

I'm going to nudge Voldemort towards ISTJ, just because I don't like him...

Come on, now. We have to accept the Voldemorts with the Gandalfs =D

[darynthe]

Voldemort is too two dimentional to be clasified in all books but Chamber of secrets, Tom Riddle may well be INTJ. The arrogance... LOL
What about Harry? He is definitely a IS, imho.

[Valiyn]

I'm surprised L from Death Note hasn't been said yet.

[azelismia]

Come on, now. We have to accept the Voldemorts with the Gandalfs =D


not really, I think Voldemort is an F. that sort of hate isn't inspired by clear headed rational thinking now is it? he is pure hatred.. nothing t about that.





azelismia added to this post, 0 minutes and 54 seconds later...

Previous to DH I would have agreed ISTJ, but the way he handled the Lily situation in his teenage years would suggest INTJ to me. He looked at Lily, looked at the Death Eaters, and chose the one that was more likely to advance him. He regretted it later, but it was still a decision he made. Also, from what I've read, I doubt the ISTJ would give a direct racial slur on someone they loved/were courting. Oh bugger, it looks like what I'm saying is he started as an INTJ when he was evil, and became ISTJ when he was good.

Bugger.


I think Snape is a quintessential INTJ.

[naughtysnail]

I think Snape is a quintessential INTJ.

YAY! We win Snape!

And yeah, you don't really get much about Voldemort as a person. The books talk about breaking him down into a human being, but the actual evidence we're given is all archetype and no personality. Nothing but cruelty and prejudice, and it's hard to make any kind of psychological judgement when that's all you're given.

[Superunknown]

Batman?

[azelismia]

YAY! We win Snape!

And yeah, you don't really get much about Voldemort as a person. The books talk about breaking him down into a human being, but the actual evidence we're given is all archetype and no personality. Nothing but cruelty and prejudice, and it's hard to make any kind of psychological judgement when that's all you're given.


I guess furthermore on Snape, I don't think he became an istj later. I think he's still an intj. I don't think he was ever evil as such, just immoral.

[Kisai]

I guess furthermore on Snape, I don't think he became an istj later. I think he's still an intj. I don't think he was ever evil as such, just immoral.

(amoral)

Wait, what are you trying to say about INTJs? :huh: :thinking: :idea: :scared:

[azelismia]

(amoral)

Wait, what are you trying to say about INTJs? :huh: :thinking: :idea: :scared:


Immoral could be used to describe a vast number of us. Immoral by societies standards not necessarily our own. I mean most of us are atheists... right there... we're immoral by the ruling of society. don't let that word scare you. it doesn't really mean much.

the general Feeling I come away with when considering Snape from the way he was written by Rowling is that we're really seeing how others saw him not how he sees himself. (Granted it's been a few years since I read these so this opinion is based on a dim hazy memory) I always sort of assumed we were getting a blurry version of him. People see him as creepy and evil so the version of events reads that way, but if you were to actually talk to him about it, it might sound quite a bit different.

so basically, I see snape as misunderstood. But, i don't see that he particularly cares and rather enjoys the image.

[Rudy]

As far as I understand the words, unethical refers to someone that does not abide by societies standards, whereas immoral refers to someone who does not have an internalized standard of morals that they abide by.

[azelismia]

As far as I understand the words, unethical refers to someone that does not abide by societies standards, whereas immoral refers to someone who does not have an internalized standard of morals that they abide by.


sure in the strict dictionary sense of the word but if you go by the common meaning it's Christian morals. vs a set of morals based on common sense.

First you have to define moral right. internalized morals aren't generally counted as being valid.

[Rudy]

If you're saying that he would be regarded as immoral by the general populace, then I absolutely agree.

[azelismia]

If you're saying that he would be regarded as immoral by the general populace, then I absolutely agree.


yup, that's it

[web]

Prof X and Magneto would be both INTJs in my opinion. I´ve read some threads and people tend to say one of them is INTP and the other INTJ. Then later on, discussions form and end up with someone saying one of the types is definitely "better", "more mature at this or that", "evil" etc etc ..
Why Prof X might be even more evil than Magneto, being pissed at Magneto´s ability to honestly do what he craves for. Prof X just seems to supress this, and compensate for it by having a different cause, but actually being a commander of his sheep as much as Magneto is. Yeah I dont like Prof X ...

[speedsuit721]

Batman, for sure. Probably Batgirl, too (Cassandra Cain version). Possibly Raven from the New Teen Titans, although she has to control her emotions to prevent her demon powers from emerging. And she *is* an empath, but she's never struck me as a particularly empathetic character.

[Rudy]

Batman, for sure. Probably Batgirl, too (Cassandra Cain version). Possibly Raven from the New Teen Titans, although she has to control her emotions to prevent her demon powers from emerging. And she *is* an empath, but she's never struck me as a particularly empathetic character.

Depends on which Batman. If you're talking about the newest incarnation, in Batman Begins and The Dark Knight, then I definitely agree. However, he varies a lot from show to comic book to cartoon to movie.

[speedsuit721]

I'm talking Batman as he was originally created, and the current comic book Batman is the closest to that. (Forget Grant Morrison's b.s. RIP storyline... I hate that guy.)

I did my college thesis on Batman and how he was basically a microcosm of American culture in every decade. He is supposed to be the world's greatest, anal retentive detective, a loner who keeps even those who care about him at arm's length and who has a great deal of difficulty expressing affection. Robin was a marketing stunt. Don't get me started on the 50s and 60s.

[ToC]

batman
daredevil

[thecat]

Batman is INTJ.

[Latte]

I'm surprised L from Death Note hasn't been said yet.

If you look closely at his convictions and reasons for doing what he does, you should find that he has an approach to societal interpersonal matters in a rather system'ish way. He finds it "wrong" and dangerous that so much power would be in the hands of one largely unaccountable person, and finds it unpreferable to what was the status quo.

He's also an implicational thinker. He looks at how things are related, gets a coherent picture, and finds implications that are relevant to his pursuit in the sense that they can be exploited by him or his opponent.

Pre-emptively, as for Near, I don't think he's either INTJ or INTP. He seems schizoid.


I'm slightly curious as to how the non-mentioning of Ozymandias has persisted for so long.

[eternaltriangle]

I'm slightly curious as to how the non-mentioning of Ozymandias has persisted for so long.

Ozymandius may be an ENTJ (though I only saw the movie, mind you). His prettyboy antics - posing on the cover of magazines, and shilling the story of the Watchmen to tabloids doesn't seem very INTJ to me (particularly since it was not really in the interest of his greater plans, indeed, it undercuts them by drawing attention).

Of course I tend to be skeptical of any claim that a superhero is an INTJ. INTJ's are only 2% of the population in the first place, and are likely to be under-represented among superheroes. I mean most comic books and movies involve a moral choice that is kind of SF (the good guys would save one innocent life at any cost) vs. NT. (the bad guys would usually make tradeoffs if it serves the bigger picture).

[Kisai]

In the comic Watchmen, each of the main characters (except for Dan, who acts as the protagonist) are given a whole comic to tell their backstory. Ozymandius' was cut very succinctly in the film. His soliloquy is spoken to his closest three servants, whom he poisons to protect his secret. Throughout the solioquy, there is the distinct impression that he does not relate to other human beings, except for dead great ones (like Alexander the Great and Ramses II ). He also abides in Karnak alone except for Bubastis, waiting for the frutition of his plan.

There's also none of this 'alpha dog' crap that he pulls in the movies. In the books he seems almost a little goofy like Dreiburg. Rorschach doesn't even suspect him because he believes that Veidt has gone completely soft. In the back material of Watchmen he is interviewed and he just gives a bare hint of his actual angle on the world, instead projecting a 'Bruce Wayne' like facade.

To sum: Veidt is a definite INTJ.

[2obvious]

The older I get, the more I remind myself of Bishop: succinct, clearly not stupid, abrupt to act, humorlessly literal. So I'm gambling he's an INTJ?

...Now that I think about it, for a guy stuck in an alien time and dimension, he seems indifferently remorseless. (But then again, maybe it's normal not to be homesick when "home" was a dystopian future where you buried all your loved ones.)

[Richard Mongler]

I'm not the type to register to a forum just to resurrect a dead thread, but... I don't think I've ever seen so many people be dead-wrong with a type analysis as I have in this thread and I can't help it.

Batman -- that is, the Christopher Nolan iteration of him -- is an INFJ, not an INTJ.

Keep this in mind, go re-watch both films. Ta-da, mystery solved.

[themuzicman]

OK, he's not a superhero, but a movie "hero", of sorts...

The Main Character (John?), from "A Beautiful mind?"

[Night Runner]

OK, he's not a superhero, but a movie "hero", of sorts...

The Main Character (John?), from "A Beautiful mind?"

His name is John Nash and yes, he definitely seems to be one of us - at least the way he's portrayed in the movie. That said, your post belongs in the "INTJs in fiction" (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) thread. :)

[curiousgeorge01]

What about Bruce Banner?

[Indubitably]

Iron Man: ENTP (don't knows what he used to be)

Batman: ISFP (seriously guys, when was the last time you met a shoot from the hip, live in the moment, act-first-think-later INTJ? The old batman was probably ISTP, the new one is an emo adrenalin junky ISFP to the core.)

Spiderman: INFP (did everyone miss the whole doing whats right just because its right thing)

Magneto: INTJ (hey, at least he didn't turn into an ESFP or something when he became a hero)

Xavier: INTP ( I guess you could kind of make an argument that he was INFJ.. INTP just seems like a better fit than anything else)

Wolverine: ISTP (and a textbook case if ISTP if ever there was one)

I don't know where anyone got the idea that all super heros are INTPs, most are extroverted and or sensors. Neither INTJ nor INTP are common as super heros, probably because neither are terribly "action packed" personalities.

[Smokex]

How about Stuey Griffen from family guy? I'm thinking INTJ there. Also, how about the Jedi?

[curiousgeorge01]

Wow I'm surprised there is so much argument over Batman. I def think he's more of an INTJ, its not that he enjoys the adrenaline it's more because he has to do what he has to do. He's def a 'NT' as he's a super thinker and his brooding makes me think he is an INTJ.

[Smokex]

Or Daria as in the girl in the self titled cartoon series and in Beavis & Butthead.

[Night Runner]

How about Stuey Griffen from family guy? I'm thinking INTJ there. Also, how about the Jedi?

Stewie Griffin is an INTJ but he's not a superhero. :(
The Jedi are a group of people - each of them is different.

[Smokex]

Yes but are any of the more prevalent Jedi possibly INTJ type? Obi-Wan, Anakin, Yoda, Qui-Gon Jin, Luke

[Night Runner]

Yes but are any of the more prevalent Jedi possibly INTJ type? Obi-Wan, Anakin, Yoda, Qui-Gon Jin, Luke

I'm not an expert on Star Wars but if Anakin and Luke are INTJs, I'm turning in my INTJ card. :p They both seemed to be very, very emo, and neither one was much of a planner (especially Luke).

[BlizzarD]

probably batman

[Indubitably]

Wow I'm surprised there is so much argument over Batman. I def think he's more of an INTJ, its not that he enjoys the adrenaline it's more because he has to do what he has to do. He's def a 'NT' as he's a super thinker and his brooding makes me think he is an INTJ.

What is probably throwing so many INTJs off is that an ISFP uses all the same functions as an INTJ, but in a different order; where an INTJ is Ni Te Fi Se, an ISFP is Fi Se Ni Te. Although there are some very significant differences, ISFPs do have a an almost INTJ-ish feel to them, and in many ways an ISFP's personality could be thought of as the part of an INTJ that is repressed by their need for logic and order. If an INTJ were to simply let go and follow their passion to fight for what is right where ever they encountered injustice, if they were to say to hell with plans and visions of an ideal future I am going to live my ideal right now, they would in effect become an ISFP. I am not surprised at all that INTJs identify with Batman so easily, in a sense there is a Batman hiding deep down inside of every INTJ, but Batman himself is not an INTJ.

As much as it may seem like he could be an INTJ, he most definitely leads with Fi, his actions are first and foremost dictated by what he believes is right. His ideals are clearly where the majority of his thoughts lie, and staying true to those ideals is of paramount importance to him. He certainly retreats to seclusion to reflect, but when he retreats he is brooding over whether or not what he is doing is right, not how to make his plans work. Another major tip off is that he lives in the moment. He is incredibly in tune with his environment, and his first instinct is always to react. You don't see Batman hanging out at the bat cave dreaming up the perfect future and feverishly toiling to implement the conceptual mechanisms necessary to mold reality to fit that ideal, you see him on the ground beating it out of the bad guys right here and now.

This is perhaps the most significant indicator that Batman is not an INTJ, he lacks long term big picture perspective. He certainly has a strong moral compass, and a relatively well developed gut instinct for where that moral compass is driving him, but he relies on close trusted allies like Alfred and Luscious Fox to really put things in perspective.

Batman may look like the closest thing out there to an INTJ super hero, and there are indeed certain commonalities, but when you look closer it becomes apparent that you would have to completely rewrite the book to make him fit the INTJ description. I'd say stick with Magneto, you may need to stretch a little to call him a super hero, but you certainly don't have to stretch to call him an INTJ.

[Vagrant]

What about Rorschach? He strikes me as an INTJ.

[Ace1337]

There are obviously a lot more Ps in the arts. INFPs, INTPs, ISFPs, ENFPs and even ENTPs often end up being writers, directors, comic book artists, musicians...

Ofcourse they're gonna make superheroes based on their own characters and ofcourse Js are going to end up as villains. The FJs are too nice so they are left with TJs, and NTJs being more creative are more interesting as villains. That's why INTJs and ENTJs end up being villains in a lot of movies and comic books.

This is just my theory but it makes a lot of sense.

Batman could be an INTJ though and he's probably the most awesome superhero ever.

[BlizzarD]

maybe we should add japanes manga/anime charakters as well in here?

[Functianalyst]

Batman/Bruce Wayne
The PunisherI think that Bruce Wayne was too focused on the past to be an INTJ. Besides he also depended on his senses since he has no superpowers. The same with the Daredevil. What about Dr. Henry "Hank" Pym (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.(Henry_Pym)) or Reed Richards of the Fantastic Four?

[curiousgeorge01]

This is perhaps the most significant indicator that Batman is not an INTJ, he lacks long term big picture perspective. He certainly has a strong moral compass, and a relatively well developed gut instinct for where that moral compass is driving him, but he relies on close trusted allies like Alfred and Luscious Fox to really put things in perspective.

Batman may look like the closest thing out there to an INTJ super hero, and there are indeed certain commonalities, but when you look closer it becomes apparent that you would have to completely rewrite the book to make him fit the INTJ description. I'd say stick with Magneto, you may need to stretch a little to call him a super hero, but you certainly don't have to stretch to call him an INTJ.

Yea I would say Magneto is with his world domination thing going on and his decisiveness.

With Batman I don't think he lacks long term picture perspective, he has a pretty good one but he revolves that around his moral compass (hence not killing people). I think Lucius and Alfred are just around to give him some perspective. He is hard to type though, I do see some F in his as well as some P. What about the fact that he's intensely interested in learning everything and very cynical? Doesn't that scream INTJness?

[Ace1337]

My INTP friend says Batman is an INTP. Go figure.

[Indubitably]

Yea I would say Magneto is with his world domination thing going on and his decisiveness.

With Batman I don't think he lacks long term picture perspective, he has a pretty good one but he revolves that around his moral compass (hence not killing people). I think Lucius and Alfred are just around to give him some perspective. He is hard to type though, I do see some F in his as well as some P. What about the fact that he's intensely interested in learning everything and very cynical? Doesn't that scream INTJness?

I would not say that "learning everything" is an INTJ specific trait. For that matter I think most people would associate the act of learning for learning's sake with INTPs. I must however digress, as I don't believe he is learning just the sake of learning at all, I think he is simply very driven to better himself through the mastery of certain skills. While I do think this sort of intensely self critical focus can come from more than one place, it seems to very much have an Fi feel to it in batman's case. Of course INTJs also make use of Fi in this manner, so its not as if that proves he is an ISFP. It is however a notch in the, "batman's personality is strongly influenced by Fi" column, and that is by no means something exclusive to INTJs.

As for his sense of long term perspective I'm not going to say he absolutely lacks vision, it isn't as if he is completely crippled in that department, but it is certainly not his focus. I think we can both agree that Magneto for instance is clearly INTJ, so ask yourself, "do I really think Batman and Magneto have the same personality type". You could probably make a decent argument that it is possible, but do you really believe it? I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that most INTJs will at least agree that something just doesn't feel right about assuming that these two characters are of the same personality type, and I believe the main impetus behind such a doubt would be that magneto clearly leads with Ni, where it would be quite a stretch to say the same about batman.

Think about it, Magneto is focused wholly on a vision of the ideal future for his people. This need to realize a vision, this almost obsessive focus on the future, is about as characteristically INTJ as it gets. Sure Magneto has his ideals, and I have no doubt that there are times when he worries about whether or not he is doing the right thing, but his mind is primarily occupied with that vision. Batman's mind is primarily occupied with himself and the present, with the righteousness of his actions and ideals, with "becoming the batman" so he may literally live those ideals. Sure, he has a vision for a better Gotham, but that vision is not his focus, in a sense it is not even his own vision, it is an homage to his father's memory. I'm sure Batman consciously thinks about the form of that vision from time to time, about what that ideal Gotham will look like, but an INTJ's thoughts would be constantly occupied with such things where Batman's thoughts are most often occupied with his ideals.

Bruce Wayne even says himself that that batman will not be the one to make Gotham into what it must be, that such endeavors will be left to people like Harvey Dent. Batman is a servant of change, not it's master; his existence is a catalyst, nothing more, nothing less. He has become the example, the ideal that may inspire in someone like an INTJ the hope necessary to mold the future into what it must be, but it will not be his vision that is realized, and he will not be the one to realize it. It will be the vision of the city itself, of it's people, and they will make it happen, not the batman. Again, batman is in some ways similar to an INTJ, his way of thinking is very much compatible with an INTJ, but he is not an INTJ himself. At most he would be a cog in the works of an INTJ, and if ever batman became something more, if ever batman began to shape the future in his own dark image, Bruce Wayne would be obligated to destroy him.





Indubitably added to this post, 22 minutes and 20 seconds later...

My INTP friend says Batman is an INTP. Go figure.

The old Batman, from the comics and what not was probably ISTP like most all comic book detectives, but I don't think he was ever an INTP (seriously, I have trouble noticing when I put an electric kettle on the gas stove before the plastic catches fire, never mind operating an automated baterang grappling hook without killing myself), and the new Batman is so far from an INTP that it the comparison is indeed laughable.

[Luckeydavid]

Doctor Manhattan is probably INTJ

[aku chi]

What is probably throwing so many INTJs off is that an ISFP uses all the same functions as an INTJ, but in a different order; where an INTJ is Ni Te Fi Se, an ISFP is Fi Se Ni Te. Although there are some very significant differences, ISFPs do have a an almost INTJ-ish feel to them, and in many ways an ISFP's personality could be thought of as the part of an INTJ that is repressed by their need for logic and order. If an INTJ were to simply let go and follow their passion to fight for what is right where ever they encountered injustice, if they were to say to hell with plans and visions of an ideal future I am going to live my ideal right now, they would in effect become an ISFP. I am not surprised at all that INTJs identify with Batman so easily, in a sense there is a Batman hiding deep down inside of every INTJ, but Batman himself is not an INTJ.

As much as it may seem like he could be an INTJ, he most definitely leads with Fi, his actions are first and foremost dictated by what he believes is right. His ideals are clearly where the majority of his thoughts lie, and staying true to those ideals is of paramount importance to him. He certainly retreats to seclusion to reflect, but when he retreats he is brooding over whether or not what he is doing is right, not how to make his plans work. Another major tip off is that he lives in the moment. He is incredibly in tune with his environment, and his first instinct is always to react. You don't see Batman hanging out at the bat cave dreaming up the perfect future and feverishly toiling to implement the conceptual mechanisms necessary to mold reality to fit that ideal, you see him on the ground beating it out of the bad guys right here and now.

This is perhaps the most significant indicator that Batman is not an INTJ, he lacks long term big picture perspective. He certainly has a strong moral compass, and a relatively well developed gut instinct for where that moral compass is driving him, but he relies on close trusted allies like Alfred and Luscious Fox to really put things in perspective.

Batman may look like the closest thing out there to an INTJ super hero, and there are indeed certain commonalities, but when you look closer it becomes apparent that you would have to completely rewrite the book to make him fit the INTJ description. I'd say stick with Magneto, you may need to stretch a little to call him a super hero, but you certainly don't have to stretch to call him an INTJ.

You've made a strong case for Batman being an ISFP. I admit, I had considered it likely that the Batman from the new movies was an INTJ but your post has convinced me that he might be an ISFP. But allow me to argue for Batman as an INTJ.

It is interesting that the ISFP has the same top-four functions as an INTJ (just like the ENTJ and ESFP). The ISFP leads with Fi whereas the INTJ's Fi is ever-present but tertiary. Batman's persona is clearly defined by a strong Fi, he doesn't care about other people for their own sake (Fe) but through his own strong internal values of justice and integrity. However, if Batman' Fi was primary, I can't help but think that he would be very uncomfortable using Batman to 'take the fall' (most notably at the end of the Dark Knight). I don't know any ISFPs in real life but there seems to be a consensus that Harry Potter is an ISFP and Batman's behavior is definitely inconsistent with Harry Potter's bewilderment and downright dislike of anybody who doesn't share his values or support him (most notably seen in the Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix).

Also, the quickness with which Batman decides to to cover-up the Two-Face's actions at the end of the Dark Knight display's Batman's pragmatic NiTe nature over Fi's honesty and integrity. Sure, Batman almost makes the Fi choice in the middle of the Dark Knight but ultimately chooses the Te action to let Harvey Dent 'take the fall'. I admit, there aren't too many moments in the films where Batman can display his NiTe preferences but I think that this is simply a result of what scenes are chosen to be filmed. Batman is clearly doing some masterminding in his bat cave off-camera (even if it is of a less than global nature) to plan his fights against organized crime. I suppose you could argue that Alfred and Lucious Fox are actually masterminding the operations but I don't think this is as likely. On the whole, Batman's actions certainly indicate a strong Fi and at least some Se but I think that Batman is similarly defined by a strong NiTe pragmatism.

I would also dispute your claim that Batman lives-in-the-moment with Se. Batman is certainly skilled in a fist fight and isn't opposed to roughing it up but there are very few instances when he jumps into a fight before thinking (as might be indicative of an ISFP's auxilary Se). Our very first introduction to Batman in Batman Begins is him causing fear and panic at the dock by hiding in the shadows and avoiding a brawl until it was logically the optimal action. The only times in the movies where Batman loses his cool is in the Dark Knight when Rachel is in great danger and I don't think an INTJ would behave any differently in these extraordinary circumstances.

Most importantly, I think, Batman represents some of the pain and misery that can result from relying too much on a tertiary Fi. Batman does not have a loving relationship with his Fi as he would as an ISFP; the outward expression of his internal values causes him noticeable pain. Batman is certainly different from an INTJ character like Michael Corleone in The Godfather Part II. The tragedy of The Godfather Part II is Michael's complete rejection of Fi, the story of the Dark Knight is, in part, the struggle of an INTJ to support and defend Fi.

Oh, by the way, I agree with your other superhero type assessments.

[Muadib]

The Punisher is also ISTJ.[/QUOTE]

I disagree. I would have to say that Frank Castle is at least borderline iNtuitive if not a legitimate N. He quite often relies on hunches and gut feelings to survive and evade.

[Jgib5328]

Doctor Manhattan is probably INTJ

He's most likely an INTP. If you look at his internal dialogue when he first moves to Mars, it's oozing with Ti. He also doesn't seem to have any real objective or goal, he seems to just do things without having the long term in mind. He also seems to be a very theoretical person and his interest in science is to just learn and discover more, but he never really puts his incredible knowledge, intellect, of divine power to use in the comic. All he does is observe from his own detached standpoint without being proactive about it.

[brecia]

What about Rorschach? He strikes me as an INTJ.

i mentioned about him on the villain thread.i hadn't seen this one beforehand.

i agree with you.i loved Rorschach! he has a strong,sharp sense of right and wrong.he stood up for what he believed.he had an emotionless pure logical approach.he was blunt.
imo he is an INTJ.

[SShack]

The Punisher is also ISTJ.

I disagree. I would have to say that Frank Castle is at least borderline iNtuitive if not a legitimate N. He quite often relies on hunches and gut feelings to survive and evade.[/QUOTE]

Do, do remember that just as all intuitives have sensor functions, so too do all sensors have intuitive functions.

"Hunches" and "gut feelings" are how intuition often manifests for dominant sensors (in fact, those are the words you'll see for the expression of intuition as a tertiary function for some S-types). For dominant intuitives, it's a lot deeper and more complicated.

[Kisai]

If there's any doubt about the Punisher not being an ISTJ, I refer you to Civil War where, in response to two very minor supervillians trying to defect to Captian America's team, Frank Castle shoots and kills them, in front of the entire room, and them suffers an ass-whupping by the Captain, and cannot raise a hand back to him, such a paragon of virtue Captain America is to Frank.





Kisai added to this post, 3 minutes and 38 seconds later...

My INTP friend says Batman is an INTP. Go figure.

That's because Batman goes into the Batcave and does Batman scientist stuff. If Batman was an INTP, he'd be in the Batcave 97% of the time, have long hair, and he'd run away from fights a lot.