Unhealthy relationships

[rahdam]

As a fairly strong INTJ...well, I'm wondering if any of the rest of you have this problem (almost put this in the relationship thread, but its a bit more specific):

I'm male, 23, refuse to take the first action in initiating any romantic relationship. However, I've had a reasonable number of relationships for an INTJ because although I can be the consummate hermit, I'm good looking and the girls, some of them, really come after me. They are bold, I relent, typical INTJ. Anyhow...

In these relationships, I usually start out happy; I've got a new toy to play with. I feel like I genuinely care about a person, and I quickly understand them as well or better than they understand themselves. I can pull them into intense conversations about themselves easily, without ever having to reveal myself (think: I can see through you). But then...once I've figured out the person mentally, socially, physically, and the system they constitute, I get irritably BORED in the relationship...as if the other person, who went out on a limb to meet me, is not and cannot be my equal. This has happened with every relationship I've ever been in.

I'm bored, so I unceremoniously end the relationship (I have never been dumped before, so I don't know how the other side feels). Invariably, I get some combination of rage and despondency from the girl, but I largely feel apathetic and aloof. It's almost like I figure someone out and then break them, although I promise I do not ever mean to hurt the girl intentionally.

I want a functional relationship because i feel like a quality mate would add a lot to my life as I could add to their life. Despite this, every relationship I've ever had follows the above pattern.

Just wanted to hear if you all have this problem as well?
I know, I know, my relationships sound completely dysfunctional...am i doomed?

[Mozzes]

I've got a new toy to play with.

Unless this was just poor word choice I think I see what (part of) the problem is.

[rahdam]

it was written, pondered, and left to be ambiguous...because that is exactly how i feel.

[fonmaneal]

Yes, you are doomed.
So get your bottom up, go out and find Miss Wrong.
At least you now know that there is no hope.
Unless you get out there and mingle.
Stop waiting for the most damaged chics to come to you.
Be brave, because otherwise its a life sentence.

[mkay]

In these relationships, I usually start out happy; I've got a new toy to play with. I feel like I genuinely care about a person, and I quickly understand them as well or better than they understand themselves. I can pull them into intense conversations about themselves easily, without ever having to reveal myself (think: I can see through you). But then...once I've figured out the person mentally, socially, physically, and the system they constitute, I get irritably BORED in the relationship...as if the other person, who went out on a limb to meet me, is not and cannot be my equal. This has happened with every relationship I've ever been in.

I used to do this in high school. I noticed the pattern and figured out it was a trust issue. I'm not saying that's necessarily so for you. But for me, it was clear that I didn't let a guy really know me even as I learned about him.

I remained sort of detached, even though I cared about the guys as people. I didn't go out of my way to hurt any of them; that was never my intention. But it invariably happened. Not good. ... So being introspective about it helped me knock it off. ... I enjoyed the attention, the power of knowing someone was drawn to me, but it wasn't worth hurting people over.

[Mozzes]

I used to do this in high school. I noticed the pattern and figured out it was a trust issue. I'm not saying that's necessarily so for you. But for me, it was clear that I didn't let a guy really know me even as I learned about him.

I remained sort of detached, even though I cared about the guys as people. I didn't go out of my way to hurt any of them; that was never my intention. But it invariably happened. Not good. ... So being introspective about it helped me knock it off. ... I enjoyed the attention, the power of knowing someone was drawn to me, but it wasn't worth hurting people over.

Trust? I would call it a maturity issue.

[mkay]

Trust? I would call it a maturity issue.

You're free to see it as you please, but you don't know me. I know what my upbringing and experiences were, and I can tell you it was a trust issue.

[Mozzes]

You're free to see it as you please, but you don't know me. I know what my upbringing and experiences were, and I can tell you it was a trust issue.

Now you sound defensive. :p

I was trying to rattle the cage a bit, but I didn't mean anything personal by it. I apologize if you took offense.

I don't see how maturity can be a bad thing. It's not as if I were insulting you. It's a behavior that used to cause you problems. You grew out of it. How is that not an example of maturity?

[mkay]

No worries. I was explaining. I wasn't being defensive. (I think it's hard to tell tone online.) I understand how such actions can be a sign of immaturity. But that wasn't my problem in this case.

If someone has trust issues, I think it's important to acknowledge. Because acting on fear is a stupid way to go through life, especially when it comes to relationships. You screw yourself and hurt others.

[Mozzes]

No worries. I was explaining. I wasn't being defensive. (I think it's hard to tell tone online.) I understand how such actions can be a sign of immaturity. But that wasn't my problem in this case.

If someone has trust issues, I think it's important to acknowledge. Because acting on fear is a stupid way to go through life, especially when it comes to relationships. You screw yourself and hurt others.

Yeah, I didn't think you were actually being defensive. I like to tease people and I can see how it doesn't always translate well to text.

I think we have a difference in terminology. I tend to consider all forms of personal growth as increased maturity.

[mkay]

I think we have a difference in terminology. I tend to consider all forms of personal growth as increased maturity.

I see what you mean. But there's some sort of difference in my mind, but I'm not sure what it is. Never really thought about it. Hmm.





mkay added to this post, 17 minutes and 47 seconds later...

Oh, I think the difference (subjective, of course), is that everyone basically starts off immature. When you have trust issues, I think it's because you've experienced something(s) outside the norm that causes you to distrust. So even if you're "mature," things can happen to you later that cause you to start distrusting. Anyway, that's my fuzzy explainer.

[brad]

It sounds to me like you haven't met someone who can challenge you. I'm always looking out for people (for friends or for intimate relationships) who threaten me intellectually. That is, people who can read me well enough that I can't get away with my usual tricks. People who take me seriously and demand the same. I'm looking for complicated people who can hold my interest, and I theirs, indefinitely.

[rahdam]

Yes, you are doomed.
So get your bottom up, go out and find Miss Wrong.
At least you now know that there is no hope.
Unless you get out there and mingle.
Stop waiting for the most damaged chics to come to you.
Be brave, because otherwise its a life sentence.

Eternal doom, inevitable mismatch, no hope! Houston, we are good to launch!

[curiousjane]

Just wanted to hear if you all have this problem as well?
I know, I know, my relationships sound completely dysfunctional...am i doomed?
Hmmm. I will contemplate this question and report back. It is 2:01am where I am now, and I'm very, very tired.

First instinct: you need to be the pursuer so that you have a challenge, for once. You're smart enough to figure out your "toy" ... and then she isn't a challenge, anymore. So, switch things up ... be nervous ... be proactive ... be a risk taker. But not with just any girl. It's going to have to be a girl who can meet you mentally, etc. A girl who, instead of pursuing you on her own, keeps things a little mysterious and makes you stay interested. I don't mean she plays games, just that she isn't going out of her way to play with YOU as HER toy at first.

Sounds like you're tired of the way things work with you. Then again, if you look anything like your avatar ... ;) Just kidding. Good question! Hope you meet your match.

[Elfrun]

I can definitely relate. Everything except the recluse part, comment about ‘toy’ and reason for ending the relationships is me.

As I’m not comfortable initiating things I don’t get to choose the men who pursue me, often they are attracted to me because our conversations focus on them, I can tell them who they are and they think this is because there is real connection and believe they are getting to know me in the process, invariably they aren’t. I had the realisation a while ago that I had ended every relationship I had been in and questioned this like you are.

There are two things I’ve had to change because of my realisation; I refuse to get involved with someone unless I’m genuinely interested in something long term and when I do meet someone suitable I force myself to be open to ensure the relationship is even, no matter how uncomfortable, ultimately I believe I cannot have a successful relationship with someone who doesn’t know the real me.

That said, I’m certainly interested to hear some intelligent answers myself because alas, I’m still searching!

[changos]

I'm on the same boat: every single word!, except from "the new toy" thing.

I get bored, but I know friendship and love are also a decision. I identify the pattern but I came to the conclusion of seeing the unbalance:

1. I understand her better than she understands me
2. She can count on me more than I do on her
3. I can make her laugh, advice her and so, more than she on me.

So, Is not that I look an unbalanced relationship, I make the effort of finding a true balance but it seems we just better ourselves on the way, adjusting to the present and the future... It seems at some point it becomes a competition.

Things get really boring once I have all the major patterns figured out, like how she is going to react to this and that situations... even completing her sentences... That gets boring.

I even tried writing some words I think she would say before arguing... and then I just take the paper out and say "see, I knew there is no point on discussing this, you are predictable with no ways of change".

I need to stop this or finding my "equivalent or equal". I need to be understood the same way I do with her.

They way I find to make relationships last longer is to keep a distance, or to be away for a while and come back (stay busy). Constant communication and constant relation just make things shorter. Also not taking her so seriously, it works for me but it reduces the amount of feeling, passion and "fusion".

[brad]

Things get really boring once I have all the major patterns figured out, like how she is going to react to this and that situations... even completing her sentences... That gets boring.

I even tried writing some words I think she would say before arguing... and then I just take the paper out and say "see, I knew there is no point on discussing this, you are predictable with no ways of change".

I need to stop this or finding my "equivalent or equal". I need to be understood the same way I do with her.

They way I find to make relationships last longer is to keep a distance, or to be away for a while and come back (stay busy). Constant communication and constant relation just make things shorter. Also not taking her so seriously, it works for me but it reduces the amount of feeling, passion and "fusion".

Do you know why type your girlfriend is?

[Uytuun]

I didn't let a guy really know me even as I learned about him

I think you're pointing out one of the core problems for INTJs when it comes to love here. I generally just listen to them and figure them out, but I reveal very little of myself and maintain a sort of distance. Most guys are ok with that, guys (rare though they may be) that reverse the roles are "dangerous" and intriguing at the same time...they hold a sort of power over me that freaks me out in good and bad ways...I then feel like they can look right through me. Perhaps you should try to find someone like this...in terms of type, I suggest ENxP, especially ENFP probably.

[Motor Jax]

i usually just stay so closed up that no one understands

so, it had been easy for to stay inside my shell, and recluse

though i did go out, just didn't reveal that much about myself

[Elfrun]

i usually just stay so closed up that no one understands

so, it had been easy for to stay inside my shell, and recluse

though i did go out, just didn't reveal that much about myself



Hmmm, how's that approach working for you :thinking:

[ElstonGunn]

i usually just stay so closed up that no one understands

so, it had been easy for to stay inside my shell, and recluse

though i did go out, just didn't reveal that much about myself

Hmmm, how's that approach working for you :thinking:

I do a similar kind of thing. I stay in the proverbial shell most of the time. I like being in there, and no, it's none of the pop-psychology-fueled reasons like a fear of closeness or past troubles. Can't a guy just like the color blue without needing a reason for it? But then again, I'm forgetting that it's inherently bad to be a very reserved person, isn't it? And each person inherently wants the same basic thing out of life, don't they?

When I go out, I stay in the shell, but first I find someone else in there to send out in my place. I've got at least half a dozen different versions of me, so it's just a question of picking the most appropriate one for the situation and sending him in my place instead of me. Or sometimes, the least appropriate. ;)

It works fairly well. I have no major complaints, solely because I could theoretically change my behavior if I wanted to. If you stick your hand into a bucket of ice water, you're not really entitled to complain that it's cold as far as I'm concerned.

[Motor Jax]

well, i have an awesome ESTP g/f that really drew me out more than anyone has

and when she's in town, she brings the party with her

[changos]

Do you know why type your girlfriend is?
Ex... I don't have a girlfriend anymore because of major problems, see the thread of stalking, it become a huge problem.

Yes I do know their type, I guess it and also the conversation about this things leads to types, and usually they take the test... so I have it confirmed. They become curious as when they introduce me to their friends I tend to guess things about them, I hit the nail pretty often so they ask how... so I start talking about body language, non verbal language and types. So then they want to learn about it.

I have been with confirmed ENFP, ESTJ and ISTJ, as for the others... just pure Extroverts and a few introverts

[schwartzie]

As a fairly strong INTJ... I... refuse to take the first action in initiating any romantic relationship. ... I'm good looking and the girls, some of them, really come after me. They are bold, I relent....Do you understand why you chose the verb "refuse," rather than, say, "seem unable" or "am afraid" or "don't know how" or "have never met someone who inspired me" or, etc. What does it mean that you voluntarily gave yourself over to the fates this way? And that you are no longer happy doing things this way?

I'm guessing that your experience as a physically attractive INTx guy is closer to the experience of INTx women--women more easily than men are in the "pursued," rather than the "pursuer" role.

IMO (as a woman; its all I know...) it is incredibly empowering and rewarding to stop being the pursued, and to choose to initiate your relationships. Well, and also scary, but scary too can be fun in a heart-stoppingly, painful sort of way. It's wonderfully self-indulgent to live intentionally, and to attend thoughtfully to the care and feeding of you in, among other things, relationships. I predict that, if you are able to take the initiative, (and just know its going to be scary, but let yourself do it anyway until you get used to it;just take smaller steps-coffee rather than dinner together, e.g.) you are going to love how it feels. ... In these relationships, I usually start out happy; I've got a new toy to play with....But then...... I get irritably BORED in the relationship...as if the other person, ... cannot be my equal. .... I'm bored, so I unceremoniously end the relationship.... I refuse to get involved with someone unless I’m genuinely interested in something long term and when I do meet someone suitable I force myself to be open to ensure the relationship is even, no matter how uncomfortable, ultimately I believe I cannot have a successful relationship with someone who doesn’t know the real me. I agree with Trinity that relationships are not worth having (even if you are feeling bloody driven by your libido) unless you see your pursued as a potential trust-worthy partner, and you are completely open to him/her. You very quickly get to the place where you can be human in the relationship, rather than a "thing." (when she is just a "toy," so you too are a "thing") IMO there's almost nothing better than being loved for who you are.
I want a functional relationship because i feel like a quality mate would add a lot to my life as I could add to their life. Despite this, every relationship I've ever had follows the above pattern. ...Just wanted to hear if you all have this problem as well? yes, have done that. For me, the passivity was the result of ignorance about how people work, and fear--of rejection, failure, inadequacy in meeting some abstract measure of OKness. Since you are cute, you have had some romantic relationships and know a little about how things work, which gives you a leg up. For me, it was helpful as a way to start being brave and less ignorant, to assume, as a first cut, that the other person in a given situation probably feels the same way I would feel, and then to act accordingly. (That's not always the case, but a good first step to overcoming fear.) I stay in the proverbial shell most of the time. I like being in there, and no, it's none of the pop-psychology-fueled reasons like a fear of closeness or past troubles. Can't a guy just like the color blue without needing a reason for it? But then again, I'm forgetting that it's inherently bad to be a very reserved person, isn't it? And each person inherently wants the same basic thing out of life, don't they? Hm...I don't think the issue is giving up being reserved. I think the thread asks how you can allow yourself to be yourself, not just a passive character in someone else's drama. I am deeply "I," more than ever before in my life, I think; so, my goal is to find a partner who "gets" that, is OK with it--and even likes it, and can at least help figure out as we go along, what the proper care and feeding should be of my reservedness. The only way someone's going to know that I'm freakishly private and reserved, and not just one of my characters, is to let them know.

[rahdam]

1. I choose the word "refuse" because in my mind, its an effective screen to see if the other side is interested. I consider it a waste of my time if I were to pursue someone and they were not interested (Yes, this is inherently non-symmetrical. Perhaps relationships are meant to be more symmetrical.)

2. I disagree with "voluntarily give yourself away to the fates" because I more often that not turn down women who pursue me outright. So there is some selection criteria that must be passed. Namely, they must seem vaguely compatible and must be physically attractive, on the grounds that I could potentially become emotionally closer with anyone, but that if physical attraction does not exist, the relationship will be best served as a pure friendship.

3. I certainly find myself in the "pursued" role. If I move to the "pursuer" role, I lose my initial screen and also a significant amount of my time and energy if I fail. So, in an auxiliary manner, you are correct about "fear of failure".

4. The rest, you have won me over. It is obvious that my current paradigm does not work, and that a shift from pursued to pursuer *may* work; it seems to be worth trying out. The difficulty I have is finding the so called "object of my affection"...I find it very easy to write off people, and to convince myself that it would not work with particular people without any real evidence. I also have yet to find a good place to meet girls who I might actually want to date...all too often, when i do go out, I get dragged out to some club by my friends, end up dancing with someone who seems to radiate sexual promiscuity, and find myself disgusted (in myself, and in others) by the time I leave the club.

To quote superbad, maybe I would be best served by visiting more non-threatening places - spin class, farmers markets, pumpkin patches... :o

[ElstonGunn]

Hm...I don't think the issue is giving up being reserved. I think the thread asks how you can allow yourself to be yourself, not just a passive character in someone else's drama. I am deeply "I," more than ever before in my life, I think; so, my goal is to find a partner who "gets" that, is OK with it--and even likes it, and can at least help figure out as we go along, what the proper care and feeding should be of my reservedness. The only way someone's going to know that I'm freakishly private and reserved, and not just one of my characters, is to let them know.

How do you go about accomplishing that goal without sacrificing your reserved nature? Unless we're using different definitions of the word "reserved" (which we might be-- who's Noah Webster to tell me what I mean when I say a word?), I'd consider it very unlikely that you could find anyone. I'm not saying that it's necessarily impossible, but it sounds to me like trying to dig a hole as a path for getting to the sky.


I also have yet to find a good place to meet girls who I might actually want to date...all too often, when i do go out, I get dragged out to some club by my friends, end up dancing with someone who seems to radiate sexual promiscuity, and find myself disgusted (in myself, and in others) by the time I leave the club.

Men's locker rooms notwithstanding, there are women everywhere. Just step outside, and I bet you there's a woman somewhere nearby. I definitely agree with you about clubs being awful places to meet women, unless you're looking to find a woman who enjoys the stupid game of grabass that passes for interaction between the sexes these days.

[schwartzie]

Quote: Originally Posted by schwartzie
... the thread asks how you can allow yourself to be yourself, not just a passive character in someone else's drama. I am deeply "I," more than ever before in my life, I think; so, my goal is to find a partner who "gets" that, is OK with it--and even likes it, and can at least help figure out as we go along, what the proper care and feeding should be of my reservedness. The only way someone's going to know that I'm freakishly private and reserved, and not just one of my characters, is to let them know. How do you go about accomplishing that goal without sacrificing your reserved nature? Unless we're using different definitions of the word "reserved" (which we might be-- who's Noah Webster to tell me what I mean when I say a word?), I'd consider it very unlikely that you could find anyone. I'm not saying that it's necessarily impossible, but it sounds to me like trying to dig a hole as a path for getting to the sky.

Well, first, yes, for me, introversion doesn't mean I want to be alone. There probably are people who do, but I'm not that reserved. I miss being in a bonded pair.

Second, I agree that the raw odds do not look good. Assuming an INTx-INTx pairing, for example, there just aren't many of us around, and the pool gets smaller when you take into account the need for compatible gender, age, geographic location, etc...

Nevertheless... no one else is going to take care of making me happy. The whole INTx thing doesn't mean that we're incapable of going out into the world and doing stuff. (thank goodness for those characters...) It just means that we need to be thoughtful about not getting lost and giving up in the overwhelming amounts of destructive SF-ness inundating us.

OK-analogies that are close but not quite there are annoying. Here's my shot at it: I'm not suggesting digging holes; I'm suggesting that, even tho I have a fear of heights, and even tho the path to the sky is barely visible, I'm pretty confident that the top of the next cloud is where I will be happier, so I'm going to--for now--choose to be fearful and just live with that. If I'm right, and the cloud top is all blissful, well...yay! If not, there's really no harm done--it's my life, and I get to decide what to do with it.

a slightly off-topic squee: I really appreciate this forum. Naming things helps make them real. There is no one in my non-virtual life that would indulge all this self-examination. Unless they had a license and I paid alot of money....

[Elfrun]

It is obvious that my current paradigm does not work, and that a shift from pursued to pursuer *may* work; it seems to be worth trying out. The difficulty I have is finding the so called "object of my affection"...I find it very easy to write off people, and to convince myself that it would not work with particular people without any real evidence.

Before you get out there and start trying to find 'miss right' I suggest you write down the exact characteristics you want, that way you won’t feel frustrated for writing anyone off cause if they don’t meet your standards it’s black and white and when you meet someone that has potential your not going to dismiss them for no reason. I also think this helps in noticing people you maybe wouldn't concider otherwise.

I think you’re being hard by blaming yourself for dismissing people in the past, you have to trust your gut, your intuition knows things before you can verbalise them, it would be good to know the reason someone isn’t right for you though and I think a checklist would help this.

I went though the same reasoning a while ago and thought maybe I had a commitment phobia because I being too picky and ending relationships prematurely so I decided that I would force myself to stay in the next relationship and really give it all I had, as normal after a short period those familiar feelings telling me 'this guy isn't the one for me' surfaced but because I thought that was only in my head I ignored my gut. Long story short, he most certainly wasn't right for me in any way shape or form, it was pointless trying to go against my gut. I’ll never do that again.


even tho I have a fear of heights, and even tho the path to the sky is barely visible, I'm pretty confident that the top of the next cloud is where I will be happier, so I'm going to--for now--choose to be fearful and just live with that. If I'm right, and the cloud top is all blissful, well...yay! If not, there's really no harm done--it's my life, and I get to decide what to do with it.

Love it :thumbsup: take life into your own hands

[zoophilia]

I don't really believe in the concept of having one person who is supposed to be everything to you, but it does sound like it might be a trust/power thing with you.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

maybe you need someone that you HAVE to go after.

[SeaCzar]

My $0.02.

I would suggest pursueing a girl that you think is intreging. Being a chick/babe/dame/broad magnet will do you no good if the pattern you have laid (sorry for the pun) out is not working, especially if you are looking for someone long term. Build a decent foundation, and then establish a broader relationship.

[rahdam]

I should add, I think much of my problem comes from the following conflict:

My libido, if you will, tells me that I should have a relationship
My rational mind tells me that I should not have a relationship until I reached a very tangible point in the plan I have set for life. This tangible point itself is irrelevant, but suffice it to say it is intimately related to being able to provide for a family very well. It's still about 2 years out, however.

[iuniperus]

As a fairly strong INTJ...well, I'm wondering if any of the rest of you have this problem (almost put this in the relationship thread, but its a bit more specific):

I'm male, 23, refuse to take the first action in initiating any romantic relationship. However, I've had a reasonable number of relationships for an INTJ because although I can be the consummate hermit, I'm good looking and the girls, some of them, really come after me. They are bold, I relent, typical INTJ. Anyhow...

In these relationships, I usually start out happy; I've got a new toy to play with. I feel like I genuinely care about a person, and I quickly understand them as well or better than they understand themselves. I can pull them into intense conversations about themselves easily, without ever having to reveal myself (think: I can see through you). But then...once I've figured out the person mentally, socially, physically, and the system they constitute, I get irritably BORED in the relationship...as if the other person, who went out on a limb to meet me, is not and cannot be my equal. This has happened with every relationship I've ever been in.

I'm bored, so I unceremoniously end the relationship (I have never been dumped before, so I don't know how the other side feels). Invariably, I get some combination of rage and despondency from the girl, but I largely feel apathetic and aloof. It's almost like I figure someone out and then break them, although I promise I do not ever mean to hurt the girl intentionally.

I want a functional relationship because i feel like a quality mate would add a lot to my life as I could add to their life. Despite this, every relationship I've ever had follows the above pattern.

Just wanted to hear if you all have this problem as well?
I know, I know, my relationships sound completely dysfunctional...am i doomed?
First off I would like to say ‘bravo’ for the stating how you truly feel. Since you’re man enough to admit it, you’re emotionally and logically one step ahead of the people who recoil with horror at the thought.

The truth is, we’ve all felt that way at some point in our lives. Initially a new romance causes us to produce endorphins that can put us in a state of euphoria. You’re not wrong to say that you genuinely feel for the person at the time, it’s true. The problem is that as you start to get familiar with the person the initial high inevitably wears off. Then you’re left with something that’s still workable or you find that it was all a façade.

This happened with my former husband who was an ENFP; we were just too similar personality-wise and competing for the same roles in the relationship. We were both bored with each other and unable to give the other what they needed.

Now I’m dating an INTJ (what a change, right?) who I find a total enigma. I’m pretty positive that I’ll never understand how an INTJ’s mind works, and I know because my dad is an INTJ and he’s still an utter mystery. Mysteriousness is an important part of relationships, it’s natural to become bored if there’s nothing new to discover. What’s also important that you develop something more than that initial attraction, an emotional bond. That’s sure to stand the tests of time more than putting together a human puzzle would.

That said, relationships require a whole lot of effort and constant maintenance. Passion doesn’t usually stay burning on its own without the proper fuel.





CuriousINFP added to this post, 4 minutes and 53 seconds later...

I feel compelled to add that while I was typing the former post I was listening to "50 ways to leave your lover" by Paul Simon. How appropriate.:)

[zibber]

The difficulty I have is finding the so called "object of my affection"...I find it very easy to write off people, and to convince myself that it would not work with particular people without any real evidence.


That's just the way it is, be prepared to exercise some patience. Chance is just a big factor in finding the right person.

[schwartzie]

I should add, I think much of my problem comes from the following conflict:

My libido, if you will, tells me that I should have a relationship
My rational mind tells me that I should not have a relationship until I reached a very tangible point in the plan I have set for life... about 2 years out....

welcome to being human.

This actually doesn't sound too "conflicting." Two years or so isn't outside the bounds of a reasonable time to find and woo a potential partner.

[theatresk8]

You're totally not doomed, unless I'm doomed too, and I'm young and an fp thinking about the same stuff so I doubt you are.

I know what you're talking about. Sometimes when you're smarter than another person (even if you don't realize it)-- what you may consider testing the waters may be very emotional for a person whose waters are very very shallow. Not that I'm saying women you can't connect with are stupid, but some people don't find fun in stimulating the mind in novel ways, setting yourself up for boredom even in casual situations. Once I'm bored I tend to totally just randomly and abruptly end a relationship with a guy who really likes me and goes out on a limb for me-- I've thought about it and I think the best thing to do is to find an outlet for your scientific mind in a really intense way, so you don't find yourself using people as a means for an exclusively entertaining mind stimulant. (and this is not criticism. I used to do it all the time, and still do it on occasion). I honestly think since you've expressed to us a sort of passion for finding fun in wit (if I understand you correctly), you should probably find someone with that extroverted trait--like an entp or something. From what I understand you look for in women, an entp might be a good match.

But also don't get into a relationship with someone who you can figure out right away--but why am I telling you that you probably already know that. But yeah, you're pretty much normal. If this continues on into your thirties, then I'd start to worry, but I don't think there's any reason to as of yet.

p.s. - sorry for the obnoxioussly long post

[PortInStorm]

It sounds to me like you haven't met someone who can challenge you. I'm always looking out for people (for friends or for intimate relationships) who threaten me intellectually. That is, people who can read me well enough that I can't get away with my usual tricks. People who take me seriously and demand the same. I'm looking for complicated people who can hold my interest, and I theirs, indefinitely.
Yes, that's exactly what I look for. Someone I can't hide from. I blow the smoke screen and they still see through it and call me on it.

[Malotis]

Just wanted to hear if you all have this problem as well?
I know, I know, my relationships sound completely dysfunctional...am i doomed?

Do I ever.

I don't ever actively pursue a romantic relationship.

Of the various romantic relationships I've been involved in I quickly get bored. I've broken some hearts, but for the most part I didn't care because I was just so fed up with it all.

As far as a "functional mate" is concerned, I can't imagine someone holding my active interest long enough to shy away from the old, self repeating pattern.

I think optimists claim that one day you'll meet somebody who will 'change things.' Whether this happens tomorrow, forty years from now, or ever is left to be decided.