Drugs...

[Iconoclash]

Why do you think people do drugs? We all know that they are detrimental to your mind and body in various ways. We all know that they are prohibited and outlawed. There is no longer the mystique or the rebellious allure formerly associated with drugs. So what kind of person do you think does drugs today? I'm talking from alcohol to crack to crystal meth and even Rx drugs. Basically the abuse of it.

Do you do drugs and if you do, why? If not, why not? Just wanted some feedback. :-)

[John Galt]

Why do you think people do drugs? We all know that they are detrimental to your mind and body in various ways. We all know that they are prohibited and outlawed. There is no longer the mystique or the rebellious allure formerly associated with drugs. So what kind of person do you think does drugs today? I'm talking from alcohol to crack to crystal meth and even Rx drugs. Basically the abuse of it.

Do you do drugs and if you do, why? If not, why not? Just wanted some feedback. :-)

People want an easy way to escape their life and their decisions which have caused them to be the person they are. Rather than doing something about their circumstances they change their feelings (albeit temporarily).

People start drugs to escape. Whether they continue to do them to escape or simply become addicted I do not know.

[Hdier]

I don't do drugs; I despise them all, including medicine such as aspirin. Not really sure why, but things like certain types of teas for headaches (willowbark?) wouldn't bug me; it's pretty much unexplainable by me at this point in my life.

[Malotis]

Why do you think people do drugs? We all know that they are detrimental to your mind and body in various ways. We all know that they are prohibited and outlawed. There is no longer the mystique or the rebellious allure formerly associated with drugs. So what kind of person do you think does drugs today? I'm talking from alcohol to crack to crystal meth and even Rx drugs. Basically the abuse of it.

Do you do drugs and if you do, why? If not, why not? Just wanted some feedback. :-)

I'm currently not doing anything, but I've experimented with all kinds of things. I use to smoke pot everyday, and to a much lesser degree I've experimented with a few other substances as well.

Not unlike how sherlock holmes justifies his drug use to Dr. Watson, I do drugs out of boredom. Yeah I could sit down and watch tv or read a book while sober, but I could also do those things while high. Adding a drug to the equation has a miraculous way of spicing things up a bit. It can also give you the impression that your experiencing things for the first time. For an example, the first time I had sex while high I felt like I had never had sex before.

My drug of choice is hands down pot, and it makes me feel superior in my intellectual and physical abilities. I've written A papers on a college level while high, got A's on tests while high, and can basically do literally everything just as good if not better while high. I love to meditate while high, and music is indescribable. They say pot slows down your reaction time, and I challenge anyone who makes this claim to a game in ping pong while I'm stoned and we will see who wins.

As far as health concerns, marijuana is one of the safest drugs you can take. Like a tomato, it does happen to contain a lot of chemicals. However, it doesn't kill brain cells, it doesn't cause lung cancer, it doesn't lead to harder drugs, and it does not dampen your lifespan. The greatest risk when using the drug is going to jail, and even that risk can be downplayed depending on your city/ state/ country, as well as abiding to basic protictive measures. In terms of physical danger, for the most part drugs besides marijuana are relatively safe as well, unless of course you start using them in large quantities, or otherwise start unwisely mixing them with another drug.

What kind of people do drugs?
It's a question I often wonder myself, and from my subjective experience all kinds. I've met kids with who got a 34 on the act and are getting a 4.0 gpa and quite literally smoke everyday. I've also met pot heads who aren't quite as studious. Professional athletes are known to use the drug, as well as various a various number of celebrities, musicians and politicians of all sorts (Barrack Obama, Bill clinton, John Wayne, John Lennon, Bradd Pitt, Jenifer Aniston, and possibly even George Washington to name a few). It is unfortunate that people in America tend to harshly judge drug users, attaching all sorts of negative connation and stereotypes.

When it comes to drugs and the use of, I feel it comes down to how well you know yourself. Not everyone is able to snort a couple lines of coke with out doing everything they can to get more coke in the future, but some people can be surprisingly capable.





PsychadelicPowe added to this post, 19 minutes and 5 seconds later...

People want an easy way to escape their life and their decisions which have caused them to be the person they are. Rather than doing something about their circumstances they change their feelings (albeit temporarily).

People start drugs to escape. Whether they continue to do them to escape or simply become addicted I do not know.

"Anyone whose doing drugs MUST has a lot of pressing issues/ concerns in their life. Therefore they MUST be doing drugs in their attempts to escape these issues/ concerns"

A classic example of how people tend to judge drug users. Using faulty premises and assumptions to make a claim with no empirical or objective backing whatsoever.

I often wonder why people can make such horribly unjust claims when it comes to people and their drug use. I think it has something to do with why people hate homosexuals. People are afraid of lifestyles/choices they can't understand, and will judge and act accordingly through their ignorance.

[enfpchick]

My INTJ friend does drugs, he even used to sell it. I don't know why he does it, he has everything going for him with school and a girlfriend and all. But his family is sort of screwed up and his step dad is a pot head anyways. But i do notice that is so much more fun then, its like the part of him that he keeps guarded is unleashed with the help of pot. its like he becomes me when he's high.( He always does it before we go to concerts.)

Funny thing is he wont let me do it even when he is high. He knows i have an addictive personality but he wont let me take one hit. I just realized that I was rambling on, Sorry.

[Mozzes]

My drug of choice is hands down pot, and it makes me feel superior in my intellectual and physical abilities. I've written A papers on a college level while high, got A's on tests while high, and can basically do literally everything just as good if not better while high. I love to meditate while high, and music is indescribable. They say pot slows down your reaction time, and I challenge anyone who makes this claim to a game in ping pong while I'm stoned and we will see who wins.

As far as health concerns, marijuana is one of the safest drugs you can take. Like a tomato, it does happen to contain a lot of chemicals. However, it doesn't kill brain cells, it doesn't cause lung cancer, it doesn't lead to harder drugs, and it does not dampen your lifespan.

That's weird, because pubmed is replete with scientific abstracts that contradict every single one of your claims. And, sure, I trust you to report objective experiences when you're under the effect of a drug. :rolleyes: I'd be willing to play a game of ping pong with you, but I don't think the ball will move through a coax cable. :p

I don't do drugs. When half your family is alcoholics and drug addicts you tend to get turned off of the stuff. Well, I did anyways. But, as I've stated before, I don't care who does what drug as long as you don't do it in my house or hurt me or my family while under the influence.

[Malotis]

That's weird, because pubmed is replete with scientific abstracts that contradict every single one of your claims. And, sure, I trust you to report objective experiences when you're under the effect of a drug. :rolleyes: I'd be willing to play a game of ping pong with you, but I don't think the ball will move through a coax cable. :p

Lol? I'd be very impressed if you could find 'scientic abstracts' as realesed by pubmed to contradict any one of my claims, let alone all of them. And I never claimed to report any objective experience on the drug.

I'd be very surprised if Pubmed has studies that the mortality rate of marijuana users is lower than their non user counterparts. Everything I've read from numerous online sources, as well as I've what I've read through the 'academically acceptable' Article Databases for Health, Nursing & Medicine, suggest that the mortality rate is the same for users and non users alike.

I'd recommend doing your own research before making farfetched claims that help you justify whatever views you wish to maintain.

[brad]

When I discovered pot, I would get high and observe the external world and analyze social norms. Basically, I ended up teaching myself social behavior. I suspect I would have learned the same things on my own without the various substances I'm familiar with, but several of them have genuinely improved my understanding of the world.

Others are just for fun.

It started as curiosity, became a social science, and continues as entertaining social science.

[Mozzes]

Lol? I'd be very impressed if you could find 'scientic abstracts' as realesed by pubmed to contradict any one of my claims, let alone all of them. And I never claimed to report any objective experience on the drug.

I'd be very surprised if Pubmed has studies that the mortality rate of marijuana users is lower than their non user counterparts. Everything I've read from numerous online sources, as well as I've what I've read through the 'academically acceptable' Article Databases for Health, Nursing & Medicine, suggest that the mortality rate is the same for users and non users alike.

I'd recommend doing your own research before making farfetched claims that help you justify whatever views you wish to maintain.

Here's one which concludes that adolescent pot smoking is a strong predictor of later drug use.

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Here's one which concludes that chronic marijuana use causes brain damage

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This one demonstrates correlation between adolescent marijuana use and generalized health problems

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Here's one that demonstrates that marijuana negatively affects memory and learning

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Honestly, though, I don't really care. I actually favor the legalization of MJ. It's hardly worse than alcohol or cigarettes and who only knows how many people are in prison now because of it.

And if you want more proof or whatever just go to pubmed yourself. "Marijuana" only gives about 13,500 hits. You have to be crazy if you think I'm going to crawl through that many results just to placate you.

[brad]

Here's one which concludes that adolescent pot smoking is a strong predictor of later drug use.

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Here's one which concludes that chronic marijuana use causes brain damage

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This one demonstrates correlation between adolescent marijuana use and generalized health problems

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Correlation != causation.

People who are willing to smoke pot might be willing to try other drugs, NOT because they tried MJ first, but because of their openness to the idea of drugs in general.

As for the generalized health problems, devil's advocate would say that most adolescent pot smokers are probably into other bad habits such as junk food, laziness, poor hygiene, sharing drinks, who knows what else. These and many other confounding variables exists to cloud the relationship between pot smoking and health.

edit: VVV didn't mean to imply falsehood or blame or negativity

[Mozzes]

Correlation != causation.

I'm well aware of this and I don't think I stated or implied otherwise. That other guy said I made "far-fetched claims". I was merely citing what would lend scientific credence to what I already stated.

[taoista]

The right drug in the right setting on the right mood, to me, sounds like the ideal scenario for drug use, but of course, most people just want to get screwed up together with the rest of their pals.

[Malotis]

Here's one which concludes that adolescent pot smoking is a strong predictor of later drug use.

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Here's one which concludes that chronic marijuana use causes brain damage

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This one demonstrates correlation between adolescent marijuana use and generalized health problems

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Here's one that demonstrates that marijuana negatively affects memory and learning

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Honestly, though, I don't really care. I actually favor the legalization of MJ. It's hardly worse than alcohol or cigarettes and who only knows how many people are in prison now because of it.

And if you want more proof or whatever just go to pubmed yourself. "Marijuana" only gives about 13,500 hits. You have to be crazy if you think I'm going to crawl through that many results just to placate you.

Conveniently, not one source of which you put forth that claims smoking lowers mortality rate. Also, I say nothing about 'generalized health problems', nor do I say anything about learning impairment, and yet you go out of your way to find sources that claim they have found a correlational significance?

If you recall correctly, I said nothing about brain damamge, I simply said marijuana use didn't kill brain cells. Yet you go out of your way to find a site on brain damage and marijuana which concludes, "Structural abnormalities revealed in the CC may underlie cognitive and behavioural consequences of long term heavy marijuana use."

Let me just say that for your sake I hope you're not serious.

However, if you're going to bring up brain damamge... "Heavy Marijuana Use Doesn't Damage Brain Analysis of Studies Finds Little Effect From Long-Term Use"
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As far as a 'predictor of later drug use', marijuana is no more prevelent than the use of alcohol or tobacco, and the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of marijuana users do not continue on to harder drugs.
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I'm still waiting for pubmed to "contradict every single one of my claims."

[notoppings]

At 45 I don't do drugs except for Tylenol and such. When I was 17 I did MJ and Acid and a little Coke. Mainly to fit in with the other guys it was a great time no complaints, later it just didn't seem necessary. I would smoke today but I feel like I'm to old for that now maybe if the timing was right or the situation was right heck I don't even drink much anymore maybe if I'm lucky a 12 pack a year and a couple of mixed drinks I find I don't need it to fit in to a social situation anymore. I never liked the hangover situation, if I had to choose something to alter my mind it would be MJ first then Acid then Alcohol.

[volk]

The main reason I've been eating mushrooms was to enable myself to see the world from a different angle. I thought it was very fascinating. I had my "drug curiosity" period around 17. I didn't find pot very special. I get similar effects when drunk on homemade blackcurrant wine. Mushrooms on the other hand were a very personal and deep experience. I discovered how little I knew about myself and the world around me. It felt like sticking a stick of dynamite into my consciousness and blowing it to pieces. It took me a year to put it all back together again. In the end it was very rewarding psychologically. Mushrooms can really open your eyes to things you never thought about before. You discover how constrained most people are by the society around them.

I see drugs as tools, be it for the purpose of health care or self exploration. If used with care, chances of hurting yourself and others can be minimized. Unfortunately not many people are competent enough to use these tools safely.

I haven't been taking anything for several years. After my latest mind reassembly project I feel quite complete and not in need of any more mind blowing experiences for years to come ;D.

[brad]

I see drugs as tools, be it for the purpose of health care or self exploration. If used with care, chances of hurting yourself and others can be minimized. Unfortunately not many people are competent enough to use these tools safely.

I haven't been taking anything for several years. After my latest mind reassembly project I feel quite complete and not in need of any more mind blowing experiences for years to come ;D.

I agree with you entirely. Now, tell me about that blackcurrant wine.

[volk]

I agree with you entirely. Now, tell me about that blackcurrant wine.

hahaha.. lol.. go out buy some good blackcurrant juice, throw some yeast into it and let it stand for two weeks until all yeast has died and settled on the bottom. It basically has no negative effects on you. The day after is awesome! No headache, itchy skin, stomach ache.. nothing! You feel like laughing all the time :P. I love this stuff. Also it only costs $1/L and tastes great!

[Motor Jax]

is this about today's drugs and usage?

or about the 50,000 generations of drug use all together?


people have been looking at getting high since time began...

probably right after the first broken leg, imo...

[Mozzes]

So, let me readdress your original list:

As far as health concerns, marijuana is one of the safest drugs you can take. Like a tomato, it does happen to contain a lot of chemicals. However, it doesn't kill brain cells, it doesn't cause lung cancer, it doesn't lead to harder drugs, and it does not dampen your lifespan

The only one I hit directly was the whole gateway drug situation.

Here's one which concludes there's a link between long-term pot smoking and lung cancer

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I suppose lung cancer doesn't might not also "dampen your lifespan"?

Granted, this study was done on rats instead of humans, but it does positively demonstrate "reduced neuronal density" with long-term exposure to delta 9-tetrahydrocannabinol.

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I think that covers everything. I would consider a link to lung cancer to also cover your "dampen the lifespan" comment, but if you're looking for a correlation to all-cause morality there isn't one, although smoking pot does seem to be dangerous to certain populations, particularly those with cardiovascular disease and those who have suffered myocardial infarction.

I probably won't respond to this topic again after this. As I stated before, I agree with you: MJ is pretty tame as drugs go and I think it should be legalized. I was bored last night and just wanted to fan the flames a bit. Besides, you can find a "scientific study" to support just about any claim if you look hard enough.

[Malotis]

So, let me readdress your original list:



The only one I hit was the whole gateway drug situation.

Here's one which concludes there's a link between long-term pot smoking and lung cancer

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I suppose lung cancer doesn't might not also "dampen your lifespan"?

Granted, this study was done on rats instead of humans, but it does positively demonstrate "reduced neuronal density" with long-term exposure to delta 9-tetrahydrocannabinol.

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I think that covers everything. I would consider a link to lung cancer to also cover your "dampen the lifespan" comment, but if you're looking for a correlation to all-cause morality there isn't one, although smoking pot does seem to be dangerous to certain populations, particularly those with cardiovascular disease and those who have suffered myocardial infarction.

I probably won't respond to this topic again after this. As I stated before, I agree with you: MJ is pretty tame as drugs go and I think it should be legalized. I was bored last night and just wanted to fan the flames a bit. Besides, you can find a "scientific study" to support just about any claim if you look hard enough.

I was always under the impression that if smoking did marijuana did cause lung cancer, there would be studies to indicate that smoking marijuana lowers mortality rate, and not studies to suggest that smoking marijuana does not. It seems rather farfetched to speculate that because a study of 75 individuals in New Zealand were more likely to develop lung cancer, that there must therefore be a lower mortality rate among marijuana smokers. Especially when you consider there are several studies which suggest smoking does not cause lung cancer.
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Now correct me if I’m wrong, but this study appears to use a slightly larger sample than a mere 75 individuals does it not?

In fact, here is an article which widely criticizes the study you just cited. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

It claims, "The results of a recent study from New Zealand reporting a nearly six-fold increased risk of lung cancer for individuals who smoke cannabis are based on only 14 cases, and have never been replicated in large-scale population case-control studies."

I also find it laughable that you bring up animal experimentation. Do some (hopefully more objective) research and you'll find that the results from animal experiments have been (conveniently) unable to replicate their findings with humans.

Now I can't tell if you were being sarcastic or not, but believe me I wish I could of blazed up afterwards. Whatever people may wish to claim to the contrary, being drug free is not fun.

[Motor Jax]

ha ha, just couldn't resist:
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anyways, i am all for advocating drug usage; especially Mary Jane

[anul]

Well the government isn't going to tell me what I can and can't do. It's up to me to decide what I put in my body. I haven't done any drugs that are considered highly addictive, and I have no interest in those types of drugs. I find hallucinogens the greatest thing ever, and I object to the fact that I cannot go out and purchase them.

[zoophilia]

I've done it. I think part of it is the excitement of doing something that you aren't supposed to be doing. And as for drugs having negative cognitive effects, it seems like your position on the issue is too cookie cutter/naive. Not all drugs have these effects and some are (at least believed to be) beneficial which is why they are prescribed for use by psychiatrists.

[sriv]

Time for you guys to rip apart my S tendencies.

Drugs are too adventurous for me. Their risks outweigh their benefits.
I'm a prude and it doesn't upset me at all.
I'd like to remain a calm, composed foundation of rationality.

[iuniperus]

Besides marijuana on very, very rare occasions, I shy away from illegal drugs. I’m already on a powerful anti-depressant so I figure that I’m doing enough damage with that alone as far as altering my serotonin and dopamine levels go.

Not a big drinker, either. I have pretty good self-control and realize when to stop when it comes to those types of substances. I think it’s because it scares me to feel as though I don’t have full composure and control of my mind.

[Double Victory]

Time for you guys to rip apart my S tendencies.

Drugs are too adventurous for me. Their risks outweigh their benefits.
I'm a prude and it doesn't upset me at all.
I'd like to remain a calm, composed foundation of rationality.

I agree with this. I don't see the point in trying to escape from reality. If you're that unhappy, then you should fix your problems, not ignore them. If you really want to have unusually strong feelings of happiness or something like that, then exercise. That's actually good for you. I've been both at the top and the bottom of the satisfied-with-life scale, and at no point have I had any desire to do drugs or drink.

I'd like to say I don't care if other people want to do drugs, but I would be lying. I almost always look down on these people. I haven't once met someone who actively does drugs or enjoys drinking that has other qualities that are respectable. I've had a lot of friends who had extremely promising futures, but they started experimenting, and they dropped out of school and are still living at home, despite being plenty old enough to be supporting themselves. I'll admit that they're pretty artistic, but they had a lot of potential and could have made something great out of themselves if they had decided to start living in the real world.

I guess if you can just do things occasionally and not let it interfere with your life, then that's a little bit better. But I still can't understand the point of doing any of it.

[Elfrun]

I know a number of ‘respectable’ people who are social pot smokers, some definitely smoke to avoid problems in their life but there are a few who simply enjoy loosing up.

I got involved in the Defence Force straight after school and they have a very simple rule with drugs, you do them you get booted, so I took a strong anti drug stance myself and maintain that to this day, at the same time I believe a lot of problems could be adequately dealt with if it was legalised. Give me a vote and I’ll support legalisation until that point…

[thegnat]

Hmm...Personally, my philosophy is the following: *Any* drug abused *will* have negative effects on your life, no matter which way you look at it. You can say marijuana is "safe" as much as you like; however, no matter what, it affects your brain, it affects your life, and who knows? It may affect you in a different negative way than it affects your neighbor smoking it. IMO, I agree, there's too much risk in taking drugs like that. For the people that are unhappy...they need to fix their problems in a better manner. They're avoiding them and not admitting to them. But hey - if you want to do drugs, it's your choice, not mine and I don't care if you do them. I just won't.

On the prescription drug side/legal OTC drugs: I have quite a few issues.
1) People are getting high on cough syrup, etc *because it's available* Same goes for available prescription drugs.
2) Doctors want to make money. People want to get ADHD meds for other uses (ie weight loss, studying). They'll get them if they want them bad enough. Some doctors may not buy lame excuses. But others sure will.
3) Over diagnosis. "You're depressed? Pop a pill and you'll feel better!" This one seriously bothers me. Sure, for the clinically depressed, those people need it. But not normal people in a mood swing.
4) Self-diagnosis. People going on the internet, looking for any teeny tiny symptom they have and then saying they have X disease when really, they just got a bruise from hitting themselves on a chair or something of the like. Then getting drugs for that and having about 50 pill bottles on their counter because of that.

With *any* drug I think the mentality is too much of "I can take x drug and feel better" rather than "Let me try and figure out this problem and *then* take a pill if I need it."

[Malotis]

I agree with this. I don't see the point in trying to escape from reality. If you're that unhappy, then you should fix your problems, not ignore them. If you really want to have unusually strong feelings of happiness or something like that, then exercise. That's actually good for you. I've been both at the top and the bottom of the satisfied-with-life scale, and at no point have I had any desire to do drugs or drink.
.

Why do you feel that the only reason people do drugs is to escape from reality? I feel you're just being defensive and trying to justify to yourself your decision to refrain from certain activities.

I mean, is it an impossiblity that some people smoke pot/ do drugs for the same reason people watch the simpsons? Becuase they find it enjoyable? I mean, can people really find nothing better to do with their time than watch the simpsons regardless if they get enjoyment out of it?

And I do know first hand that exercise can make you happy. One of my favorite past times would be to work out while high. I had been working out for sometime, and it wasn't till I started doing my work outs while high that people started commenting on my physical changes. strange eh?

[brad]

I agree with this. I don't see the point in trying to escape from reality. If you're that unhappy, then you should fix your problems, not ignore them. If you really want to have unusually strong feelings of happiness or something like that, then exercise. That's actually good for you. I've been both at the top and the bottom of the satisfied-with-life scale, and at no point have I had any desire to do drugs or drink.

Not everyone associates drugs with escape. Escape implies inadequacy of the real world to meet one's needs. Another perspective could be explained, "I'll poke my perceiving fuction and twist my judging function and learn from it."

Honestly, I'm surprised that a person with dominant Ni wouldn't want to put it to good use; drugs offer many people a means of altering their mind for self-exploration.

Reality is subjective. Ni dominant types can come to understand the way their mind works when in an altered state just as they can when in a normal state. I, for one, have learned immensely by studying the way my thought processes change, and they way other people change, across a wide range of subjective realities. With combined Ni and Te, I find myself lost in thought as I intuitively come to make sense of the world around me, picking out behavioral patterns or new paradigms.

For example, I learned a great deal about social norms and how to interact (on all levels) while observing friends and acquantances in altered states of mind.


I'd like to say I don't care if other people want to do drugs, but I would be lying. I almost always look down on these people. I haven't once met someone who actively does drugs or enjoys drinking that has other qualities that are respectable. I've had a lot of friends who had extremely promising futures, but they started experimenting, and they dropped out of school and are still living at home, despite being plenty old enough to be supporting themselves. I'll admit that they're pretty artistic, but they had a lot of potential and could have made something great out of themselves if they had decided to start living in the real world.

I guess if you can just do things occasionally and not let it interfere with your life, then that's a little bit better. But I still can't understand the point of doing any of it.

Your understanding of drugs and drug users is entirely resultant of your limited experience with both, rather than being an accurate reflection of reality. Just as there are many ways that specific CP preferences can present themselves behaviorally, so there are many different behavioral tendencies with regards to drugs.

There is no single way of seeing the world or making decisions on what is visible; there is no single outcome from drug use. Some people have more positive experiences overall. Some have more negative experiences overall. More often than not, whether a person's drug use is positive or negative has less to do with the nature of the drug(s) than the nature of the person.

[Advocate]

Personally I find you'll always problems with threads like this.
You could take a universal side and say "All drugs are bad" which is nice and easy point to take.
Some one here said they didn't like the idea of aspirin (which I can agree) but then they used tea...but really isn't tea, used in such a way to be considered a drug as it is used for a medicinal purpose?

And sure, you can say that a lot of people are using drugs to escape from life, but am I escaping the troubles of my life when I have a quiet single malt scotch or a beer with the boys? And yes at times I will purposely go get hammered.

I'm all about moderation. And on that point, all those people that have never tried, and never will; in my opinion cannot really have an opinion on the matter of drugs. (haha can't wait to read the responses).

[Malotis]

I'm all about moderation. And on that point, all those people that have never tried, and never will; in my opinion cannot really have an opinion on the matter of drugs. (haha can't wait to read the responses).

Well I think they definetly have an opinion. Just maybe a slightly bias one. Some people will totally buy into all the anti drug propoganda and lies put forth by the government, and will never go out of their way to do objective research on their own.

And it's an interesting theory that the usage of a drug entitles one to a more objective opinion about the drug. I think there might even be some truth to it. I mean, seriously, who knows more about pot than a pothead?

[Mozzes]

PsychadelicPowe, I know where you stand on recs like MJ and some psychedelics, but I'm curious as to what your views are on the (at least what I would consider) far more dangerous and damaging "drugs" like crystal meth, heroin, and "huffed" solvents. Do you think that there are some substances that are simply too dangerous to ever be legalized or should it be the legal responsibility of the individual to decide?

[brad]

PsychadelicPowe, I know where you stand on recs like MJ and some psychedelics, but I'm curious as to what your views are on the (at least what I would consider) far more dangerous and damaging "drugs" like crystal meth, heroin, and "huffed" solvents. Do you think that there are some substances that are simply too dangerous to ever be legalized or should it be the legal responsibility of the individual to decide?

Heroin is not more dangerous than most more commonly used drugs, people just think it is because they associate it with needles. Needles are dangerous. Heroin, not so much.

[Malotis]

PsychadelicPowe, I know where you stand on recs like MJ and some psychedelics, but I'm curious as to what your views are on the (at least what I would consider) far more dangerous and damaging "drugs" like crystal meth, heroin, and "huffed" solvents. Do you think that there are some substances that are simply too dangerous to ever be legalized or should it be the legal responsibility of the individual to decide?

Well I'm a libertarian. I don't believe that I (or the government) has the right to regulate the private lives of citizens.

I can't say that I'd personally endorse the use of, but If someone is fully aware of the consequences/ potential harm of the substance, then who am I to judge and tell them that they can't inject/ snort/ inhale/ digest substances X, Y or Z because of the alleged danger? I feel you might as well try to ban/ regulate over eating.

Also, I think you'd be surprised at the number of people who are able to both try heroin and function in society.

[rahdam]

Conveniently, not one source of which you put forth that claims smoking lowers mortality rate.

Let me just say that for your sake I hope you're not serious.



And let me just say that for your sake I hope you're not serious.
No one is claiming that smoking lowers mortality rate.

Mortality rate is the rate at which people within a population per unit time. People are not arguing that smoking lowers the mortality rate. They are arguing that it raises the mortality rate. You've made the same mistake twice in this thread. Please use "mortality rate" correctly.

[Malotis]

And let me just say that for your sake I hope you're not serious.
No one is claiming that smoking lowers mortality rate.

Mortality rate is the rate at which people within a population per unit time. People are not arguing that smoking lowers the mortality rate. They are arguing that it raises the mortality rate. You've made the same mistake twice in this thread. Please use "mortality rate" correctly.

Thanks for pointing out the techicality.

It is most fortunate that you still managed to decipher the overall meaning of the statement.

You say that "they" are arguing that marijuana use raises mortality rate. But who exactly are you refering to?

[Malotis]

but in reality, you are a small minority compared to those who become addicted and watch as drugs destroy their lives.

The ignorance of people never ceases to astound me.

Yes indeed a minority... All the the millions of helpless victims of cannabis (I'm using pot as a specific example of a drug for it is the most common illict drug being abused today) who let their addiction destroy their lives. They lose their jobs, families, friends, motivation, and all because they smoked pot.

In case you missed the sarcasm, the fact of the matter is that if pot is 'destroying lives' then in the vast majority of cases it's because of unjust laws founded on prejudice and racism that are still in affect today, and not because of the physiological effects of the drug.

[sriv]

The ignorance of people never ceases to astound me.

Yes indeed a minority... All the the millions of helpless victims of cannabis (I'm using pot as a specific example of a drug for it is the most common illict drug being abused today) who let their addiction destroy their lives. They lose their jobs, families, friends, motivation, and all because they smoked pot.

In case you missed the sarcasm, the fact of the matter is that if pot is 'destroying lives' then in the vast majority of cases it's because of unjust laws founded on prejudice and racism that are still in affect today, and not because of the physiological effects of the drug.

Pot was the immediate effect. It makes sense to cut it off. When cutting it off did not work as well as hoped, people get worried.
I support the legalization of pot. Pot is fine. Heroin, maybe not.

[thod]

You can travel the world, change your job etc. But no matter where you go or what you do the one thing you cannot change is yourself.

There is only one way I know of becoming "not me" and that was to take drugs. The alteration in perception is a learning experience to be valued. It is the only way you will ever be able to see things from a perspective other than your own.

[rahdam]

Thanks for pointing out the techicality.

It is most fortunate that you still managed to decipher the overall meaning of the statement.

You say that "they" are arguing that marijuana use raises mortality rate. But who exactly are you refering to?

I'll bite.

The previous poster was arguing that smoking marijuana has pronounced negative health effects. He stated this generally. You replied that there were no studies showing that smoking marijuana "lowered" (;)) the mortality rate, the implication being that by claiming marijuana had pronounced negative health effects, the previous poster had implicitly argued, among other things, that marijuana raises the mortality rate; If you did not think that heightened mortality rates were associated with the pronounced negative health effects that the previous poster had argued, you would not have mentioned them yourself.

To be honest, I have no real interest in this thread, but I disapproved of your callous disregard for his sentiments ("I hope you are joking, etc."). It is very much possible to scientifically disagree with someone without such disparaging remarks. The above remark and others like it in this thread do not further intelligent discourse. You are obviously very bright, but those editorial comments do nothing to further your arguments.

[Malotis]

It is very much possible to scientifically disagree with someone without such disparaging remarks. The above remark and others like it in this thread do not further intelligent discourse. Those editorial comments do nothing to further your arguments.

QFT

Sarcastic or belligerent remarks are indeed not needed, do not further “intelligent discourse,” and do little if anything to further ones argument.

But lets try approaching this from a differnet perspective?

Sure one can voice a claim and try to be as non-offensive and as politically correct as possible, but what's the fun in that?

[rahdam]

QFT

Sarcastic or belligerent remarks are indeed not needed, do not further “intelligent discourse,” and do little if anything to further ones argument.

But lets try approaching this from a differnet perspective?

Sure one can voice a claim and try to be as non-offensive and as politically correct as possible, but what's the fun in that?

You said the word "fun." That's all I needed to hear, and helps me to put the tone of all of your previous posts in context. Good luck on your travels, sir.

[Beery Swine]

Why do you think people do drugs? We all know that they are detrimental to your mind and body in various ways. We all know that they are prohibited and outlawed. There is no longer the mystique or the rebellious allure formerly associated with drugs. So what kind of person do you think does drugs today? I'm talking from alcohol to crack to crystal meth and even Rx drugs. Basically the abuse of it.

Do you do drugs and if you do, why? If not, why not? Just wanted some feedback. :-)

You're answer can be so simply phrased with another question. Why do people eat at McDonald's and Jack in the Box? Its unhealthy, everyone knows this, yet they persist. Why do masochists do masochistic things? Why do white people tan so damn much? Why do I play video games occasionally for days at a time without sleep? Obviously we are all deriving some pleasure or mental fix from these activities.

I suddenly realized that, whether consciously or subconsciously (did I use the correct word there?), I listed mostly things that society in general consider "bad." I don't mean to pass judgment or anything, and I think its also worth noting that many people find it easier to exercise and eat healthy foods and shy away from fried stuff. I'm a semi causal determinist in terms of whatever anyone does.

[Learning]

Why do you think people do drugs? We all know that they are detrimental to your mind and body in various ways. We all know that they are prohibited and outlawed. There is no longer the mystique or the rebellious allure formerly associated with drugs. So what kind of person do you think does drugs today? I'm talking from alcohol to crack to crystal meth and even Rx drugs. Basically the abuse of it.

Do you do drugs and if you do, why? If not, why not? Just wanted some feedback. :-)

Don't do 'em. Never have. Just a thought, but it seems like they're trying to self-medicate. Psychological/physical problems may be the initial reasons for some who abuse drugs.