How do you picture universe?

[volk]

We got another discussion on this going on in a different thread so I figured I'd start a thread solely on this subject.

I prefer to think that universe is round, but in four dimensions. When you move through space, you are actually moving on the surface of a 4d object. It's as hard for us 3d beings to imagine a 4d object as it would be for a 2d stick figure to imagine a third dimension. Though we can use induction to help us wrap our minds around the idea of four dimensions.

Picture a sphere. If you now cut the sphere into slices you get circles of different size. If you now slice these circles, then you get lines of different sizes (thats now 1D). Thus it should be possible to slice a 4D body into 3D objects of different sizes. Also the surface of every object has n-1 dimensions where n is number of dimensions that the object covers.

Now lets look at the concept of infinity. The universe is considered infinite. The space we live in is merely the surface of the universe and it is infinite in the sense that if we move in any direction, we can move for ever. We can compare this to moving around the surface of the earth.

Of course no one will ever be able to tell for sure what universe is. All we can do is come up with ideas that leave as few unanswered questions as possible.

So, what do you think of the universe?

[sriv]

The universe is often used in different contexts like

"All the matter that exists."
or
"All the matter that exists and the space it is expanding into."
or
"Matter, space, time, and all the physical laws that govern them."

What definition of "universe" are we using?

[Moriarty]

All the evidence suggests pretty compellingly that the universe is flat. Check this site out, it's very very interesting and is full of information.

Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe Data (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)

[Latte]

Of course no one will ever be able to tell for sure what universe is. All we can do is come up with ideas that leave as few unanswered questions as possible.

That's an unjustified assumption =p

[volk]

All the evidence suggests pretty compellingly that the universe is flat. Check this site out, it's very very interesting and is full of information.

Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe Data (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)
Thanks, I'll check it out.. ;)

That's an unjustified assumption =p

But don't you agree that it just feels so good to say something like that ;D

What definition of "universe" are we using?
I guess it would be all matter that exists and space that it expands into.

[thod]

I view it as a balloon with all the galaxies on it. Thus as the balloon inflates the galaxies seem to move further apart, the red shift. Go long enough in any direction you get back to where you start. The direction to the middle of the balloon is non of the 3 spatial dimensions.

[Solaris]

I've been pondering this since childhood.

[Latte]

This is how I see it.

4 dimensional (3d + 1time, that is) "bubble" wherein 3 dimensional matter "shrinks", which from our perspective would seem like the universe expands. Basically, expansion/shrinking is merely 2 points of view, as the size of an object is only the size it is relative to the size of other objects, ie the concepts of expansion/shrinking is basically the same. Us humans have a terrible tendency of seeing things from our point of view as if we are constants.

At first, the matter filled the bubble, then it traveled along the dimension of time and shrank (the big bang).

If anyone is going to respond with "no, stuff isn't shrinking, the universe is expanding", you aren't getting it.

[Beery Swine]

Thanks for the link Moriarty. A flat universe it is then, at least until contradictory evidence arises. God, Jesus, I love science. It looks like entropy will get the better of all of us.

As to the question, how do I picture the universe? I don't: its too big and complex. :laugh: Seriously, I picture, at least with my limited 3-D mind, a spider-web pattern of galaxy clusters and super clusters cuz that's what I saw on the science channel. If you mean how do I picture an n-dimensional universe, ahhh...not very well. Natural selection can be a cruel mistress.

[niffer]

This is how I see it.

4 dimensional (3d + 1time, that is) "bubble" wherein 3 dimensional matter "shrinks", which from our perspective would seem like the universe expands. Basically, expansion/shrinking is merely 2 points of view, as the size of an object is only the size it is relative to the size of other objects, ie the concepts of expansion/shrinking is basically the same. Us humans have a terrible tendency of seeing things from our point of view as if we are constants.

At first, the matter filled the bubble, then it traveled along the dimension of time and shrank (the big bang).

If anyone is going to respond with "no, stuff isn't shrinking, the universe is expanding", you aren't getting it.

!!!!!!!!! THAT IS SO COOL. That never even occurred to me. But, what would the universe have been like when all matter filled the bubble? What do you see the bubble as?

This honestly never occurred to me, what the edge of the universe would be like. We are learning about the universe in school atm though, sad how I never had the initiative to explore some of the theories regarding this more in depth when I was younger.

Now that I think about it, I picture it as kind of flat 1d object if it were possible to be viewed by something outside the universe, if there was more universe. As for its actual shape, hmm. I'm not sure what infinity would be shaped like, so I picture it as having no shape, appearing 2d or 3d if looked upon from one angle- but really being like a sort of 3d mobius loop, in which if you got to one "edge" of the universe, you'd simply end up somewhere else in it, perhaps at a different time period. And yet it has no edges, just certain areas in the universe just make other areas immediately accessible- we can never know if we are really only 3d or not. Perhaps black holes would be a sort of "edge" in which if you were sucked into one you'd be stuck in an endless loop of being spread thin across the universe and then being sucked through the hole again, for all eternity, and this inescapable time laspe would be like a sort of inaccessible purgatory. I view black holes as a kind of glitch in the fabric of the universe. Or perhaps in a black hole we turn into another universe when we go through.

[Ool]

I don’t.

’Tis mortal blasphemy to make a graven image of the entirety of everything…

[Bioplasmoid]

I prefer the word Cosmos, but what a fantastic thread. :) Offtopic but it just popped into my head that you might enjoy the album Tiny Blue Biosphere by Rhian Sheehan (Loop Recordings Aotearoa) I think there are some preview mp3s available somewhere online.

[PHS Philip]

I don't, really. I can understand it it terms of words, but the universe is (at least for me) so weird and counterintuitive that it can never be pictured. Trying to picture something with all the warps and curves and folds while still being smooth, with giant bursts of energy across every bit of the spectrum, with little bits of stuff popping in and out of existence and destroying each other...Too much for me.

If you can picture it, I envy you, because it must look so incredible.

[zoophilia]

I view the universe as having splayed logics governing its different sets. I don't think there is a need for a uniform structure. Different portions of it interact and break interaction with one another. Many different aspects of it overlap but in my opinion these overlappings are all too often viewed as causal. The structure shifts as different variables come to prominence.

[PRBori]

The universe goes beyond what we have discovered... I believe in the Big Bang Theory... and I find it very interesting to learn about outer planets... I'm very happy about the NASA landing in MARS...

All in all to me the universe is infinite, full of mysteries... I used to get a lot of info from NASA when I was a child... Free Images of the Space and I haven't figure out how to get it again, but they do have a program for kids in particular where they send out FREE literature and pictures of findings with full explanations... I shall keep looking to see how I got them when I was younger.

If I had more time I would continue my studies on it for it is intriguing... but I'm more focus on other things right now..although for those who have time they should ponder on the mysteries and beuty of the universe.

[Mozzes]

Now lets look at the concept of infinity. The universe is considered infinite.

Is that so? I looked for information and there seems to be significant scientific debate whether the universe is infinite or finite. The only consensus I was able to find is that the universe is unbounded, but that's not the same as infinite.

[replicant]

An interesting question. When I think about the universe, my mind goes toward the image of Val Kilmer topless slicing a chilled rod of dry ice into tiny coin sized discs. I imagined the disc to represent the universe and the rod is the movement of the universe through time. The slicing is simply the instances of relative realization or events taking place such as life and death. Does that sound stupid? haha I dunno just a stray thought based on a beloved movie.

[zoophilia]

wanted to add more. sensorically i overlap the visuals/audibles/etc of everyday life with representations of what i understand to be going on at the quantum level and arbitrary symbolic values (usually numbers).

w3Hn mY bR4!n !s \/\/3r|<InG R1T|=+- t/~/e >@r!ec| rEpReSeNtAt!Ons become equivalent

[Zadoc]

We got another discussion on this going on in a different thread so I figured I'd start a thread solely on this subject.

I prefer to think that universe is round, but in four dimensions. When you move through space, you are actually moving on the surface of a 4d object. It's as hard for us 3d beings to imagine a 4d object as it would be for a 2d stick figure to imagine a third dimension. Though we can use induction to help us wrap our minds around the idea of four dimensions.

Picture a sphere. If you now cut the sphere into slices you get circles of different size. If you now slice these circles, then you get lines of different sizes (thats now 1D). Thus it should be possible to slice a 4D body into 3D objects of different sizes. Also the surface of every object has n-1 dimensions where n is number of dimensions that the object covers.

Now lets look at the concept of infinity. The universe is considered infinite. The space we live in is merely the surface of the universe and it is infinite in the sense that if we move in any direction, we can move for ever. We can compare this to moving around the surface of the earth.

Of course no one will ever be able to tell for sure what universe is. All we can do is come up with ideas that leave as few unanswered questions as possible.

So, what do you think of the universe?

Man, you have really got to research these types of idea before philosophizing about them.

Here's a few scientific podcasts that explains the size (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.), shape (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.), and center (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.) of the of the universe, along with a few follow up questions (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.). I very strongly suggest that you listen to all of them.

[Ool]

Picture a sphere. If you now cut the sphere into slices you get circles of different size. If you now slice these circles, then you get lines of different sizes (thats now 1D). Thus it should be possible to slice a 4D body into 3D objects of different sizes. Also the surface of every object has n-1 dimensions where n is number of dimensions that the object covers.

The problem with a spatial geometry of more than (or fewer than) three dimensions is that while attracting forces would decrease with a higher power (cubed in 4-D), the centrifugal forces within a rotating polar coordinate system would still follow the rules of Pythagorean theorem geometry in a two-dimensional plane.

Unless you could find a mathematically consistent geometry where a³ + b³ = c³, you’d never have hyperspherical objects orbiting each other in 4-D the way spherical objects orbit each other in 3-D.

That means that, unlike in a three-dimensional space, you can’t have stably orbiting objects in a four-dimensional space. So whatever stable laws that would govern the formation of patterns within those extra dimensions, they’d be well outside of our understanding of how things work in our everyday experience.

That’s why superstring theory doesn’t even bother to postulate simple particles but instead some sort of vibrating spaghetti, where everything is entangled and complex…