Is Alcoholism a Disease?

[GinaStott]

Is alcoholism a disease?

After getting caught drinking at my college campus, I had to attend AA meetings three times a week. I do not consider myself to be an alcoholic. The first time I drank was at the beginning of college. I joined a sorority that had a lot of heavy drinkers and many people in my dorm were drinkers. During the first three months of college, I would go out 1 or 2 nights per week and drink with my sorority sisters or people in my dorm. I have had a handful of "bad nights" in which I didn't remember everything that happened or I behaved foolishly. However, I realized that I needed to focus more in school so I left this sorority and stopped going to parties/drinking almost entirely.

After that period, I went to parties occasionally (every 2 months or so). Most of the time I did not drink, but sometimes I would have 1 or 2 beers. I realized that I had much more fun not drinking or only having a couple than binge drinking and getting out of control.

However, during my sophomore year, I was caught drinking at a party. I was then sent to AA three times a week. There the AA people told me that I was an alcoholic and I had been born with the disease of alcoholism. They said it has no cure and I would have it for the rest of my life. I could never not be an alcoholic, but only change to a "recovering alcoholic." They said I needed to attend AA meetings for the rest of my life or else I would end up in jail, an institution, or dead. They also said I had to admit I was powerless over alcohol and admit that my life had become unmangable, admit my character defects, apologize for all my wrongs and all the people I hurt etc.

I thought this was all ridiculous. Just because I did some binge drinking when I started college doesn't mean I will have a problem for the rest of my life. I haven't drank in a year and a half. (since I was caught drinking.)

AA also says that if alcoholics have 1 drink, they will keep on drinking. They say they can't resist the first drink and they will just go on binge drinking. The other day I had 1 beer, just to prove that I could have only 1. I drank about 75% of it and I had no desire to keep on drinking. I don't understand why I should keep this alcoholic label and say I have a "disease" when I could just take responsibility and say I made some poor choices whenI was younger. Now, I am wiser and I know that I don't need to drink to have fun and I know I can resist peer pressure.

What do you guys think? Is alcoholism a disease? I personally think it is a choice.

[RoyalINTJ]

well you know and i know ... and probably everyone else who will answer in this thread... that what they are saying is just plain stupid.... there is no reason you should consider yourself an alcoholic... and yes i believe that its matter of choice...

[knock7]

I agree with you. It doesn't sound like you have a drinking problem. I drank heavily almost every night in college and stopped when I got out of college.

I don't understand how someone can believe a disease can force you to lift a cup to your mouth. It is a choice and calling it a disease only gives people an excuse for poor self control.

[Solaris]

Well, it is a disease. However, I don't think it's the alcohol, it's the mental coping issue that's the problem. There are alcoholics in parts of my family, and they will never be anything but that.

That said, I think what they told you about your choices in college is stupid. I think most college students have a few of those times, and that large a percentage of the American public is not alcoholic.

[Motor Jax]

sounds like a cult to me, making you believe you are powerless over a choice

[RoyalINTJ]

Now why would they do that i keep thinking to myself.... its plain evil... this world is so sick sometimes... or most of the times...

[sriv]

Alcoholism is a disease, but it does not affect all people.

People with alcoholism have severe withdrawal and are repeatedly tempted back into drinking.

Heavy drinking does not equal alcoholism. Heavy drinkers are not addicted to it, they can stop if they want. Alcoholics have bouts of withdrawal where they may get sick, shaky hands, noxious, etc.

If you can stop without great effort, you are probably not an alcoholic.

[yondyr]

Motor Jax is correct, it's a cult. A cult, a religion that can be very effective in helping a segment of society out of a problem. But it only works for some. Similar to some religions it has rituals, dogma and group support that are comforting for the needy. Whether it's a disease depends upon your definition of the word. You may be wired for physical (cancers, heart disease etc) or mental disorders (depression, bipolar, addiction etc) in your genetics - lets be glad for anything that works.

[GinaStott]

Hey thanks everyone for posting!

Here are the 12 Steps if you don't already know what they are:

1.We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.
2.Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3.Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
4.Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5.Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6.Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7.Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8.Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9.Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10.Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11.Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His Will for us and the power to carry that out.
12.Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

I have ALWAYS felt it was a cult. People in meetings would go on and on about their character defects and shortcomings.....

[ElstonGunn]

Alcoholism may very well be a disease for all I know or care, but I think a much bigger disease is to blame your own crappy behavior on factors other than yourself.

[yondyr]

Barf re the 12 steps, and I see still dragging in god.

"I have ALWAYS felt it was a cult. People in meetings would go on and on about their character defects and shortcomings....."

So.... a meeting of minds that dwelled on defects, shortcomings, skills, aversions, idiosyncracies..... looks around at this forum and grins.

[Monte314]

Both of my parents were alcoholics and drug addicts. They were in and out of institutions, jails, hospitals, residential programs... the works.

From my perspective, their behaviors certainly had all the characteristics of a mental disease.

GinaStott, you don't seem to have any of these attributes. Sounds to me as though you were going along with the crowd and did a "dumb kid" thing because it's what everybody was doing. That doesn't mean you are suffering from any mental disease... it means that when you were a kid, you did a dumb kid thing.

[Darkmist]

I question why it is dumb to walk the different paths our lives may take us. Without experience, mankind would have never learned how to make fire, plant grains to feed entire tribes and so on. If people drink and are afraid to admit to it, then the Cult of God has them firmly in it's biased, unyielding grip. Look at the society today, particularly in America and tell me that we aren't fed bullshit by the field loads on how to behave, why and how it affects others. The bull becomes a truth that we adhere to for fear of being different. Odd, given that INTJs follow this dogma as well.

God is a drug that kills, maims, rapes and controls the mind. When do we pass laws against His influential uses in public, for the collective benefit of the so called masses?

Oh and, no I do not buy into the alcoholism is a disease crap. That is a myth perpetuated by those who stand to gain from treatment and from fundamentalist churches that would have us follow them blindly to the living death they believe is necessary for everlasting life.

If we ate from the disease bowl that we're fed by religion, doctors and politicians, we'd be doomed. Wait, we do, and we are.

[ethsar46]

Its not a disease, its a drug dependance. Alcohol is a drug. People who say its a disease are kidding themselves.

[yondyr]

1. a disordered or incorrectly functioning organ, part, structure, or system of the body resulting from the effect of genetic or developmental errors, infection, poisons, nutritional deficiency or imbalance, toxicity, or unfavorable environmental factors; illness; sickness; ailment.
2. any abnormal condition in a plant that interferes with its vital physiological processes, caused by pathogenic microorganisms, parasites, unfavorable environmental, genetic, or nutritional factors, etc.
3. any harmful, depraved, or morbid condition, as of the mind or society.

Whatever it is I wish they'd either off themselves or do it quietly - right now it's taking too long and too much public money and too many other lives.

[punkyplatypus]

I think your college forced you to join the meetings for your and their best interests. For all the college knows, you are the biggest alcoholic ever. They can't let their students become or continue to be alcoholics; students deaths, failure, low attendence, and drop outs would all probably increase. This means a bad reputation, which means less funding, which leads to less activities/services & a more mediocre staff. That's bad for them and bad for you.

However, you do not seem to be an alcoholic. I think AA is meant for alcoholics. People with alcoholism let this addiction hinder all aspects of their life. They flunk out of college, lose their families, lose their jobs, spend all their money on booze, act without thinking, and drink dangerous amounts of alcohol. I think the idea of alcoholism being a disease shows that alcoholism is bad & unhealthy (drinking isn't all partying and fun) and that it's something that has a cure, or at least a temporary one that you have to keep working on (recovering alcoholism). The "rediculous" approach AA uses may seem extreme to nonalcoholics, but it seems to be the best "cure" for alcoholics, else AA would be dismissed and a new program would be implemented.

I don't want to argue semantics on whether or not alcoholism is a disease. I can see that there are differences between alcoholics & nonalcoholics and that some people tend to be more susceptible to alcoholism than others. Alcoholism may be caused by the amount of alcohol consumed, body size, gender, age, belief system, genetics, or maybe an undetectable alcoholism virus....I don't know. Alcoholism is a(n): disease, addiction, character trait, habit, choice, hobby, slow suicide, social ice breaker....they all work for me :)

[Darkmist]

AA is a cult. Stop telling us what you think things are and start telling us why they are that way. Hint, it isn't what you've been brainwashed to believe.

Why is alcohol bad? I was told it was.
Why was smoking banned? the tobacco companies lied to us.
Why was prohibiton good? mmm, the government

Mankind has drank and smoked and taken drugs of some sort since they knew how to make fire. We are how many billion strong now, killing off all other living things? And we did that smoking and drinking and eating meat. Blasphemy!

[cal]

What do you guys think? Is alcoholism a disease? I personally think it is a choice.

My best friend once told me that if there were 2 who should've ended up as alcoholics, it was us. We put down a lot of bottles between us, starting in Gr. 10. But the amount we drank was a lifestyle choice. I'm down to maybe 1/2 dozen drinks a year now. My dad was the same way.

Another friend we had didn't seem to have a choice. He didn't seem to be able to leave the stuff alone. Lost family, job, health. His dad was the same way.

I was talking to a fellow today who said his health used to be fine, till he quit drinking - he was a pretty heavy drinker for years. He said such things as diabetes and high blood pressure showed up a couple of months after he quit. I told him that maybe he's an anamoly - his drinking kept something under control, and his stopping let it get away in him. Something like a bacteria. Or maybe it was just a coincidence.

[catd]

he was a pretty heavy drinker for years. He said such things as diabetes and high blood pressure showed up a couple of months after he quit. I told him that maybe he's an anamoly - his drinking kept something under control, and his stopping let it get away in him. Something like a bacteria. Or maybe it was just a coincidence.


Interesting. Maybe the stress that was kept under control by the drinking caused the diabetes and high blood pressure?

[cal]

Interesting. Maybe the stress that was kept under control by the drinking caused the diabetes and high blood pressure?

Maybe. Maybe the stress put on the body from discontinuing a long time behaviour contributed as well. Or it could be something totally different. I find such anamolies interesting, even from the aspect that sometimes the real answer/solution can come from following them up.

[Serket]

Alcoholism is certainly an addiction, which may qualify it as a mental disease. That said you are not an alcoholic.

[ElstonGunn]

Mankind has drank and smoked and taken drugs of some sort since they knew how to make fire. We are how many billion strong now, killing off all other living things? And we did that smoking and drinking and eating meat. Blasphemy!

Yeah, and Churchill was a cigar-smoking boozehound, and Hitler was a non-smoking, teetotaling vegetarian. ...Because hey, if there's a better time to invoke Godwin's Law, I haven't seen it.

[thod]

This sounds like silly American puritanism. At college I spent almost every night in the bar. Yea I was the social bunny back then, and am the grumpy old git now. I drank huge amounts every night and smoked more dope than my body weight.

I don't consider myself an alcoholic then or now. I liked the feeling of being drunk and its a great social lubricant for an INTP at college. I could walk into the bar and say hi to 100 people there, I would get invites to several parties a week. My life was like the frat party movies consisting of getting wrecked and screwing women. Study didn't come into it. I was one of those lucky guys that could pick up a book and learn in the week before the exam what took most people 6 months to learn.

These days I still buy alcohol and drink. But I don't drink every day and never before 10pm at night. I just don't like being anything but 100% sober during the day. When I do have a drink, every few days, I don't get wrecked. I relax, watch a movie, have a drink, then go to bed. Unlike an alcoholic, I don't feel the need for alcohol, it something I do for enjoyment rather than need. As for dope, not smoked a joint for 15 years. I would still smoke one if offered though. I just don't have these hangups about them that others seem to do. I don't consider myself compromised by having a drink or smoking a joint. I consider it a fun activity to enjoy.

Most addiction is only addiction when it becomes compulsive behavior that prevents you getting on with other things in your life that you would rather be doing. You behavior of binge drinking 1-2 nights a week is not alcoholic. Alchies drink every night, they become very anxious at the prospect of a night without alcohol. You sound like a normal youthful person to me. Those AA people should be ashamed, they are recruiting non alcoholics simply to boost their own numbers for their own interest.

If you want to see it in action come to the UK. The towns are full of young people that binge until they puke. That is normal social behaviour for them. It must be tough living in such a repressed country.

[Beery Swine]

Alcoholism is not drinking tons of alcohol, it is the COMPULSION to do such. If you put an alcoholic in a spaceship with nothing but normal food and water, just because there's no booze for him to consume doesn't mean he's not an addict, also doesn't mean he's not gonna get cravings like crazy. It's kind of like how homosexuality is not copulating with the same sex, its being attracted to the same sex. A man can bang women exclusively his entire life but still be gay, if that makes sense.

However, that stuff about how they were saying YOU'RE AN ALCOHOLIC was just crap. If you haven't had a drop in a year, and don't get cravings, you're not an addict.

Just do a little googling on alcohol withdrawal symptoms and death rates, its one of the most dangerous intoxicants in the world.

[yondyr]

Correct me, please.. if said spaceship were in flight for a year would he still be an addict? It hinges upon craving? And applies to say, chocolate, ice cream, porn, tobacco...just so long as the craving is there even though years hence?

[Beery Swine]

Well I can't speak for alcoholics specifically, but I can make an educated guess that in a Mexican food-free environment for, say, 3 years I would still get massive cravings. I haven't had any for about 2 months cause I'm trying to drop a few and sometimes its almost uncontrollable, especially with a taco bell within walking distance, and from what I hear food addiction is nothing compared to chemical addiction.

Also it's fairly likely that, treated or untreated, our hypothetical Guinea pig wouldn't even survive. Even with treatment, the mortality rate ranges from 5-15%.

On the original subject of the thread starter, whether or not it should be classified as a disease I think is just semantics, but then again I'm not in medicine, so I'm not really qualified to make that type of assertion.

Oh, hell, I'm constantly editing this after I think of something new: I don't know how this would relate to this reply offhand, but I think its necessary that addiction is largely determined by genetics, but if a person with the "addict" gene/s never tries any substance, they'll never be addicted.

[PRBori]

Alcoholism is a mix of drug dependency and either low self-steeem or a psychological disorder from years of abuse whether mental, emotional, or physical to some extend. It's also generic in some cases.

The bottom line, the inability to stop yourself from getting drunk or feeling that you need more all the time can be a form of alcoholism. If this is such runs in your family as it does in my family, chances of it being a generic disease are feasible.

It is because of the fact that I grew up with an alcoholic father that I've never in my life drank alcohol nor do I have any plans to try it in the future. To me anything that makes me loose control of myself is not worth it, for I like to ALWAYS have control of myself.

As to whether or not you're an alcoholic, is hard to tell. I can only say that ONLY YOU and those that are closer to you would know better. Most of the time people who are do not want to accept it or even believe it.

[Nameless]

I think alcoholism is a disorder, not a disease. In my mind, viruses and bacteria are what I what I think when I use the word disease. A disorder is like an internal problem, not always triggered by something physical. Like an eating disorder. I guess you could call alcoholism an alcohol disorder.

[Elfrun]

EEEK *sprints for the door shrieking* Run now while you can AA is after you. You will be assimilated, you will be stripped of personal responsibility, you will admit that you are a terrible person who deserves to spend the rest of your pathetic existence grovelling before the AA God asking for forgiveness for being born. *stops, ooh, free coffee, maybe I’ll stay for a few minutes*


I think AA works for those who are self loathing and believe that they should to feel like crap but for anyone wanting to take responsibility for themselves, it is a scary, scary cult.

Whilst there certainly agree that there is a precedent for addictions to run in families, I’d suggest that’s environment as opposed to genetics. Personally I think it’s a mental problem that can be overcome, AA would not agree! They would loose members!

[Solaris]

I want to chime in and say that AA has certainly helped a lot of people, who would otherwise have gone on to kill others (or themselves) in accidents. I disagree with many of their precepts, but not with their success. I do find them cult-ish in some ways, but it's a lesser evil than drinking one's life away.

We NTJs are generally stronger with self-control and determination, so it's unsurprising to me that we'd feel about AA as we do. Of course those people have some weakness, just as we would if we were alcoholics.

I think nature and nurture both contribute to the expression of addiction within a person. I have a friend who knows she has a very addictive personality, and so avoids anything more than cigarettes.

[Thucydides]

Is alcoholism a disease?



I was then sent to AA three times a week. There the AA people told me that I was an alcoholic and I had been born with the disease of alcoholism.

These people sound like my sister. As soon as some quack counselor told her she had a 'disease' she's been diagnosing everyone she knows.

Getting sent to AA because you got caught with a drink makes very little sense to me.

[GinaStott]

Thanks everyone for responding.

The self-deprecation and self-loathing that I've seen in the rooms of AA disgust me. I recall in one meeting a guy said "Yeah last night I sat at the bottom of my basement stairs and held a gun to my head. I was about to pull the trigger. I realized I was such a worthless human being. Yeah, I just feel so depressed." And then the AA group all say "Thanks, Joe" in a casual mannerr, not even alarmed one bit......Everyone frequently shares how worthless they are and lists their character defects.

AA thinks ALL alcoholics are the same. They say the alcoholic personality is egotistical, grandios, etc. so they do "ego-deflation". They try to get the alcoholics to be humble.

While I was in AA, people constantly tried to beat me down. They told me I was egotistical and would remind me of my problems.

In a strage way, AA has helped me find who I am. I am NOT like them. I am not an alcoholic destined for a lifetime of "recovery" and sitting in dingy church basements, listing my character defects and shortcomings. I believe that every individual has the capacity for change. My freshman year, I was a naive little girl that desperately wanted to fit in. I drank to be "cool", and sometimes out of sheer boredom. Now, I have changed. I have found a major and career-path that fits me perfectly. I am no longer bored. I have found hobbies and activities that interest me. I was and never will be diseased. What is so incredibly liberating for me is that I have a CHOICE about my outcome and I have personal responsibility. I have power over alcohol. It no longer interests me. When I go out and someone offers me a drink, I have the power to say no.

I think when people are told that they have a permanent disease that makes them always crave alcohol, it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Their mind will always tell them to crave alcohol because they have the belief system that they are diseased.

A wise friend of mine told me that "The best revenge is success." I am determined to achieve all my dreams and become a successful, well-educated person. Years from now, if I went back to the AA meetings, everyone there would be exactly the same.....still complaining about their disease, their defects, shortcomings, etc.

Gina

[Thucydides]

A wise friend of mine told me that "The best revenge is success."

The best revenge is revenge.