INTJ Accountants?

[Mogura]

Do INTJ CPAs exist? Do you know of any?

[knock7]

I don't there is a single one anywhere. The idea of being a CPA is my idea of hell.

[Mogura]

I don't there is a single one anywhere. The idea of being a CPA is my idea of hell.

How so?

[knock7]

How so?

I think there are a bunch of reasons I find it unappealing and probably to most INTJs. This is my impression of accounting.

1.) You have to follow a set of rules or you lose your license.
2.) The rules often don't make sense or contradict each other.

[Serket]

Not technically a CPA. Studying Accounting though. Boring as hell. No, wait, hell would be really interesting. Accounting is not.
But it leads to an easy well paying job that lets me do other more interesting things.

[knock7]

Not technically a CPA. Studying Accounting though. Boring as hell. No, wait, hell would be really interesting. Accounting is not.
But it leads to an easy well paying job that lets me do other more interesting things.

If you don't like what you are doing, switch now. People who do a career they don't like for pay or something else, end up very bitter or switching fields. Keep in mind whatever career you pick you will spend more time doing it than sleeping or personal time for the rest of your life!

[mkay]

Accounting might be more creative than routine, thanks to software. I think it depends what kind of accounting, because something like working with startups and other businesses could be creative, especially if paired with investments / finance.

I know someone whose dad was a traveling accountant -- he traveled overseas and did taxes for Americans (they live elsewhere but still have to file in the U.S.). He had this amazing list of countries he'd worked in, all as an independent business owner. And he only worked part of the year!

My accountant is a real find -- always looking out for me, figuring out strategies, not just bean-counting. ... My brother is an accountant of sorts -- he audits research contracts at a big-name research school (keeps scientists from straying from their grant restrictions and such). His work is varied; he works with people as much as he works with numbers (though that might not appeal to INTJs).

Oh, and forensic accounting could be interesting:

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[Jaycen]

But it's getting past the initial concept of "accounting". I can't even force myself to read mkay's post beyond the first sentence.

[mkay]

But it's getting past the initial concept of "accounting". I can't even force myself to read mkay's post beyond the first sentence.

Ha, nothing like an open-minded INTJ. :laugh:

[Mogura]

My impression of Accountants/CPAs are as follows:

They are given a lot of autonomy
They work in quiet, comfortable office settings
They are respected by their own peers
They can become self-employed if they get fed up with corporate life
They have a valuable skillset to draw on if they have an entrepreneurial flair

What's an INTJ to disklike about all of that?

I'm sure there are other reasons for an individual wanting to pursue accounting, but I really like the self-employment option. How many careers are there that allows one to become self-employed? Law, Medicine, Dental medicine, and Accounting are a few that come to mind.

In fields such as teaching, science, and engineering it is extremely difficult to switch over to self-employed status. Of course there is consulting, but you would still need to know business (and accounting).

Why bother climbing the corporate ladder when you can just as easily become the corporate ladder?





Mogura added to this post, 5 minutes and 42 seconds later...

But it's getting past the initial concept of "accounting". I can't even force myself to read mkay's post beyond the first sentence.

That's unfortunate... It was a good post...

[knock7]

In fields such as teaching, science, and engineering it is extremely difficult to switch over to self-employed status. Of course there is consulting, but you would still need to know business (and accounting).

Why bother climbing the corporate ladder when you can just as easily become the corporate ladder?

Have you considered becoming an IT consultant? You already have experience, you could line up your first job right out of your current one and it wouldn't require going back to school. You could also own your own business.

[Aronnax]

In fields such as teaching, science, and engineering it is extremely difficult to switch over to self-employed status. Of course there is consulting, but you would still need to know business (and accounting).


Actually it's fairly easy to be a self employed engineer, there are lots of small engineering firms out there. Expert testimony and technical consulting pay very well. This assumes you're interested in Civil engineering, if you want to do something exotic like nuclear or aerospace engineering you're going to have to work for someone like GE or Raytheon.

[Peloton]

Well, I'm not a CPA because I don't have the patience to jump through the hoops to get certified, but I am an accountant. Most of the time I like it. I am the financial person at a nonprofit where no one else is really interested in the finances. This means that I am mostly left alone to do what needs to be done, and I can happily spend my time crunching numbers.

Sure, there's a certain amount of tedious, repetitive paperwork, but it also means that I, more than anyone else in the firm, know what's going on and how the company is doing. I keep track of sales, I pay all the bills, I do payroll, I prepare financials, I help prepare the annual budget, I work with the auditors and the Finance Committee of the Board of Directors. I don't just record the numbers, I analyze the data and share my conclusions with the Executive Director and the Finance Committee. It's a job with a lot of variety and independence. What's not to like? And besides, I like numbers.

I share my office with an ENFP artsy person. She sometimes says to me: "I have no idea how you can stand to work with numbers all day." To which I reply: "I have no idea how you can stand to talk on the phone all day." I am happy to be left alone with my paperwork.

[BlackNight]

Do INTJ CPAs exist? Do you know of any?

Yes, I am a part qualified CPA/CA.But not by choice between a useless educational phycologist by the name of Steve Mack(who basically told me that I was too comlicated to be understood) and a father bent on me becoming a accountant, guess what I became a accountant.Now 10 years from when the decision was made for me I am officially a very unhappy accountant.If you live in South Africa and you are a INTJ I suggest you avoid Steve Mack like the plage.But on the positive side you know how to cook the books if you ever own your own business and there are jobs in accountancy.

[thod]

Accountancy as a job is not so much about adding numbers up as knowing and interpreting rules. It as much like being a lawyer. Its easy to massage the numbers, the trick is knowing what you can get away with. To do this you will need to study how the law interprets similar cases, what the IRS will prosecute etc.

All the accountants I have ever know have found it a dull career. They are in reality, little more than filling clerks. A bit more excitement and involvement with the real world is needed.

[Peloton]

Accountancy as a job is not so much about adding numbers up as knowing and interpreting rules. It as much like being a lawyer. Its easy to massage the numbers, the trick is knowing what you can get away with. To do this you will need to study how the law interprets similar cases, what the IRS will prosecute etc.

All the accountants I have ever know have found it a dull career. They are in reality, little more than filling clerks. A bit more excitement and involvement with the real world is needed.

The first paragraph is true, though I wouldn't describe it as knowing what you can get away with. Rather, there are issues that are fuzzy and take some thought to decide how to handle them. That's one of the interesting parts of the job.

The second paragraph, on the other hand, contradicts my experience. I've met plenty of accountants who find their job challenging and satisfying. You are only a filing clerk if you are at the lowest, entry-level of the job. And at larger companies, they hire clerks to do that work so the accountants can do the harder, more interesting work. However, accounting is an old-fashioned profession, and experience is essential, so you have to pay your dues before you can work up to one of the good jobs.

As is obvious from the responses here, accounting isn't a glamorous field, but it's essential to every business, and there are good opportunities for advancement, the work conditions are fairly pleasant, and the money isn't bad.

[SOMjunkie]

Speaking as a Certified Financial Planner (TM) and someone who majored in Accounting and Finance in college, I found the idea of becoming a CPA a living nightmare. I understand that they do so much more than preparing financial statements and bean-counting, but there seemed to be a total lack of creativity. Plus, the profession required too much organization on behalf of the student. There's no way I could ever keep all the proper work documents in line. I'm way too disorganized for that line of work.

[mkay]

Yes, I am a part qualified CPA/CA.But not by choice between a useless educational phycologist by the name of Steve Mack(who basically told me that I was too comlicated to be understood) and a father bent on me becoming a accountant, guess what I became a accountant.Now 10 years from when the decision was made for me I am officially a very unhappy accountant.If you live in South Africa and you are a INTJ I suggest you avoid Steve Mack like the plage.But on the positive side you know how to cook the books if you ever own your own business and there are jobs in accountancy.

Why don't you change careers? Life's too short to be miserable at work.

[Elfrun]

I'm not an accountant but I work in the finance sector, the skills that you learn in finance can certainly set you up for your future business goals, wether that's clawing up the corporate ladder or planning you own business, for me understanding the financial aspect is pertinent.

Ultimately it’s each to their own, I studied IT at Uni and found that boring! There are a lot of people around here who would adamantly disagree no doubt, it just wasn’t for me.

Mogura, If you’re ultimate goal is to run your own business, accountancy isn’t bad but studying business may be a better option, I’d expect it would be more conceptual and less about following a set formula (ie setting you up to run a company v's setting you up to work for one). Either way decide where you want to end up then work backwards. On a side note I don't know any truly successful practicing accounts that have all the things you’ve listed, but I do know some who have studied accountancy and moved into a more of a business/management role and achieved great results.

[KarmicKaos]

Accounting might be more creative than routine, thanks to software. I think it depends what kind of accounting, because something like working with startups and other businesses could be creative, especially if paired with investments / finance.

Aren't 'Creative' Accountants usually the ones who end up in jail? :thinking:

I just finished taking International Business and Financial accounting. Both classes related largely to the trend of large corporations (such as Microsoft and IBM) who are exploiting loopholes in US accounting laws in order to make it appear they are generating revenue from Ireland or the Caymen Islands; thereby avoiding tremendous corporate income taxes. This is quite interesting, the day-to-day routine of accounting is still quite dull.

[BlackNight]

Why don't you change careers? Life's too short to be miserable at work.

I am going to.I was thinking about either doing electronical/computer engineering or chemical engineering or both.I actually want to do both.I will have to study-part time for the next three to five years before I can change careers.It's a bite frustrating.Wish that I had had the book DO WHAT YOU ARE(Personality Career Book.) 10 years ago.Whats most frustrating is that I would never have become a accountant in the first place if I overcome the fear of uncertainty and not been afraid to make my own choices.On the positive side accountancy/auditing is a good start because it is so useful in business.On the negative side it allows zero forms of creativity and self-expression.:irked:

[Mogura]

Interestingly, DO WHAT YOU ARE lists the following accounting-type careers as being popular among INTJs:

Financial planner
Credit analyst
Financial analyst
Strategic planner
Budget analyst
Treasurer or controller

I understand everyone's desire to have a career with creativity (it would be nice for me as well), but how many careers outside of the arts really allow for such creativity? Could you name some?

Using one's accounting background could be used to start a company--a creative pursuit...

[cBorg]

Interestingly, DO WHAT YOU ARE lists the following accounting-type careers as being popular among INTJs:

Financial planner
Credit analyst
Financial analyst
Strategic planner
Budget analyst
Treasurer or controller

I understand everyone's desire to have a career with creativity (it would be nice for me as well), but how many careers outside of the arts really allow for such creativity? Could you name some?

Using one's accounting background could be used to start a company--a creative pursuit...

Engineering, especially if you are in product development. You usually have to be on the bright side to get into those positions, but the demand is up in the US. (fewer graduates recently) Look at digital hardware design or embedded software (writing code to control circuits). Study courses for those are Electrical engineering and computer engineering. Those are challenging, creative and can lead to nice consulting work once you have experience. Computer science as well...that one's easy to see if you like - teach yourself some programing and give it a try.

Mechanical Engineering is my background, but I'm looking for different directions now. Also, engineering is a very broad field and a versatile degree that you can take in many directions. Once you have the technical background you can use it in many different careers. (sales, patent law, design, project management, business management in a technical company, etc)

I applaud you for the level of research you are doing to find the right career direction.

[Mogura]

On the subject of the suitability of accounting as a possible career path for INTJs, I did some research on the Web and have observed that while the accounting field was not mentioned as a possible career path for INTJs, the auditing field was.

Interesting... I wonder why auditing would be suitable for INTJs (while accounting is not)? What is it about auditing that INTJs would enjoy (I am curious about this)?

Would anyone care to share some insight? Thanks.

[mkay]

Maybe outsmarting people. ... As I mentioned, my brother is an auditor at a big research university. He says people try to pull things and part of his job is to not let them get away with it. ... He's ESFJ, though. His job also includes helping people who actually want to make things work within rules, managing people, working with lots of people across the university (because of the scope of research grants and contracts). His job requires patience and diplomacy, because people generally aren't happy to be caught breaking rules and be told they'll be responsible for the consequences (usually they've tried to cheat the grant-maker, for instance, and have to figure out how to cover the costs some other way). They often try to BS, intimidate, fight or otherwise wriggle out once caught. So it's probably a psychological challenge to know how to handle different kinds of people. My brother is good at saying no but not making you feel like an ass or a criminal, for instance. He has rapport with people. That's important because he generally has to work with the same scientists / professors / researchers over the years. And his team needs cooperation to get accounts settled. ... Anyway, that's his job, not necessarily other auditing jobs.

[Mogura]

I came across in interesting link regarding experiences in auditing, so I thought I would share:

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The original article was interesting, but it's the comments that follow that's the real eye-opener. Like all things on the Internet, please take it with a grain of salt...

[Danisty]

Not technically a CPA. Studying Accounting though. Boring as hell. No, wait, hell would be really interesting. Accounting is not.
But it leads to an easy well paying job that lets me do other more interesting things.I have an associates in accounting and I'm doing my best to never have to take another accounting job again. I'm glad I just went for an associates since I've realized I hate it. If you don't like it, find something else. Accounting sucked all the creativity out of me. The years I worked as an accountant, I completely stopped drawing which is really strange for me.

Interesting... I wonder why auditing would be suitable for INTJs (while accounting is not)? What is it about auditing that INTJs would enjoy (I am curious about this)?

Would anyone care to share some insight? Thanks.My guess would be that it has to do with finding and fixing errors. Auditing is more like solving a puzzle.

[Mogura]

My guess would be that it has to do with finding and fixing errors. Auditing is more like solving a puzzle.

Is that what you do?

[searcheagle]

An INTJ friend of mine is in his first year working in the accounting field. He is working towards getting a CPA. He seemed to enjoy his first year.

I, on the hand, found accounting to be fairly boring. To me, it seemed like too much of a shell game. Money counts here but it doesn't count here. So, we have to try to get as much of the money to places it doesn't count (for tax purposes).

That being said, I recognize the noble goal of managerial (internal) accounting to determine costs for business expenses. For that reason, I will likely expand my study of accounting when I return to college for grad classes.

[Danisty]

Is that what you do?No, but I worked with a DOT auditor on an audit that was being done on the engineering firm I worked for. I kind of envied her job. It was much more interesting than what I was doing. At this point though, I'm just going to try to stay away from accounting. I'm much more interested in learning Russian and finding a way to use that.

[emanon]

I would think ENTJs would make better auditors than INTJs. My favorite auditors don't really seem to be introverts.

As to the original subject of this thread, I'm an accountant and enjoy the field of tax personally, but I could never bring myself to become a CPA because it would just box me in to much. I will say that as a field for an INTJ, accounting does have plenty of dull moments, but it really just means that my work gets done efficiently and I have plenty of time to entertain myself elsewhere. There is always plenty of variety to the puzzles that do present themselves in any given workday.

[Danisty]

I would think ENTJs would make better auditors than INTJs. My favorite auditors don't really seem to be introverts.

As to the original subject of this thread, I'm an accountant and enjoy the field of tax personally, but I could never bring myself to become a CPA because it would just box me in to much. I will say that as a field for an INTJ, accounting does have plenty of dull moments, but it really just means that my work gets done efficiently and I have plenty of time to entertain myself elsewhere. There is always plenty of variety to the puzzles that do present themselves in any given workday.I'm glad you're able to achieve efficiency. Most of the places I've worked were the most inefficient you could imagine. One of the reasons I hated my job at the engineering firm was the excessive amounts of overtime I had to put in because nobody wanted to change (improve) their system. I had no time at all to entertain myself elsewhere. One aspect of accounting that I don't think I could ever do is accounts receivable. Just the idea of having to call people and harass them to pay their bills is irritating to me.

[Gilbo]

I'm a qualified Management accountant in the UK and I've never audited in my life - I can't think of anything worse.:square:

I've always worked in Commerce and most of the time I've enjoyed it because a lot of its been problem solving e.g. Why have we overspent?, What process do we need to put into place to ensure control? Why do IT never do anything we ask? etc. That and fooling the auditors of course.

For the last ten years I've implemented Financial systems, which I like because mostly its identifying and implementing solutions to resolve complex issues. And it pays even better than accountancy - yippee :laugh:

[emanon]

I'm glad you're able to achieve efficiency. Most of the places I've worked were the most inefficient you could imagine. One of the reasons I hated my job at the engineering firm was the excessive amounts of overtime I had to put in because nobody wanted to change (improve) their system. I had no time at all to entertain myself elsewhere. One aspect of accounting that I don't think I could ever do is accounts receivable. Just the idea of having to call people and harass them to pay their bills is irritating to me.


Accounts receivable would be awful. It's bad enough just having to harass the different departments here into giving me their sales tax information. That is one area where there is definitely room for improvement. :annoyed: At least it doesn't happen too often.

[Mogura]

I'm a qualified Management accountant in the UK and I've never audited in my life - I can't think of anything worse.:square:

I've always worked in Commerce and most of the time I've enjoyed it because a lot of its been problem solving e.g. Why have we overspent?, What process do we need to put into place to ensure control? Why do IT never do anything we ask? etc. That and fooling the auditors of course.

For the last ten years I've implemented Financial systems, which I like because mostly its identifying and implementing solutions to resolve complex issues. And it pays even better than accountancy - yippee :laugh:

I have been looking into Accounting Information Systems degree programs as a possibility. Seems like an effective way to parlay my IT skills and experience into something marketable.

Do you think that there is potential for building a self-employed consultancy specializing in accounting/financial systems?

How much of your accounting knowledge do you use in the job, or are you doing pretty much 100% IT now?

[Gilbo]

Most of my experience is in the UK, but I would say the following:

I have been looking into Accounting Information Systems degree programs as a possibility. Seems like an effective way to parlay my IT skills and experience into something marketable.

Initially I would do a bit of research and then try to go for something more specific. First decide on the system - nowadays I would only go for Oracle or SAP. If you're in the States I'd recommend Oracle Financials.

Oracle careers tend to be split between Technical and Functional (I'll ignore DBA as I really don't think that's a career for an INTJ). The technical route may be a bit easier to get into given your IT background, but it may not be a big enough change from your current career. E.g. an Oracle developer would use PL/SQL to write programs, write customised reports and screens etc.

With Functional (which I do) there is more work with the business users to understand their requirements and then trying to use the standard configuration & functionality of the system to meet these requirements. If the standard system can't meet the business requirements then you work with the Developers to create a customised solution. You then have to sell the solution back to the business. And once you've gone live you have to solve any Production issues.

Once you've decided on the route I would go for specific training. The cheapest way to get trained up is to work for a consultancy firm, as they will train you up. They will want you to have good written and verbal communication skills. Not having a Finance background may put them off, but I'm not sure. Try going on Jobserve and see what various job requirements are. Alternatively you can go on the Oracle University website and book a course / buy a CD course just to see if you like it. It is costly, but may help you decide.

Do you think that there is potential for building a self-employed consultancy specializing in accounting/financial systems?

Yes, but only once you've built up your skills (at least 3 years) as without the experience you won't get the work. A LOT of guys in the UK are independent contractors, which pays well and you are your own boss. I haven't done it as I like the security of a monthly pay cheque.

How much of your accounting knowledge do you use in the job, or are you doing pretty much 100% IT now?

It just really helps to be able to speak the same language. You don't have to do a 3 year Accounting qualification like me, but a short business finance / accounting course would be worthwhile.

Whatever you do don't go into auditing, not even system audit. As an INTJ you have proved you have a personality. To be an Auditor you must fail the personality test.

[Mogura]

Yes, but only once you've built up your skills (at least 3 years) as without the experience you won't get the work. A LOT of guys in the UK are independent contractors, which pays well and you are your own boss. I haven't done it as I like the security of a monthly pay cheque.

I like the security of not having to depend on a single source of income...

[Mogura]

OK, so I met up with a career counselor who is well-versed in MBTI theory (he even had some theories of his own). He is an INTP, so he probably understands INTJs more than other types.

Anyway, I mention that I am considering a career in accounting. He cuts me off, and says to not go into accounting. I asked why, his response was, "It's too 'S'." Yikes! Too 'S'?!? I suppose that explains the plethora of negative impressions of accounting in this thread. Not only are the impressions negative, but some of them were vehemently negative.

Well, I may just have to rethink accounting. Not a problem though. I still have some other career ideas simmering.

Anyway, thanks everyone for your valuable input...

[Gilbo]

Any INTJs thinking of going into accounting might want to read this from the accounting body I belong to

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"The ESTJ or ISTJ personality types are most closely associated with successful accountancy students. Recruiters familiar with this finding will, therefore, seek out candidates with such characteristics for entry-level positions. In the short term this is a successful strategy, since these junior accountants should be suited to the work they do as trainees. But, by the time they get to the higher levels of their organisation, the most desirable personality type is substantially different. Personality types associated with success at, say, director level are more focused on intuition, feeling and perceiving (NFP) because the nature of the work is different. They will need to be able to get on with people in other functions and, rather than expressing an opinion on the accuracy of a particular figure, they need an opinion of the overall reasonableness of the financial statements."

"If you are recruiting a team, you might find that short-term planning requirements suggest you should hire only STJs, but it’s crucial to spread the net more widely if you want a team with a wider range of personalities and would like these trainees to rise up through the ranks in your organisation."

[mkay]

Any INTJs thinking of going into accounting might want to read this from the accounting body I belong to

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"The ESTJ or ISTJ personality types are most closely associated with successful accountancy students. Recruiters familiar with this finding will, therefore, seek out candidates with such characteristics for entry-level positions. In the short term this is a successful strategy, since these junior accountants should be suited to the work they do as trainees. But, by the time they get to the higher levels of their organisation, the most desirable personality type is substantially different. Personality types associated with success at, say, director level are more focused on intuition, feeling and perceiving (NFP) because the nature of the work is different. They will need to be able to get on with people in other functions and, rather than expressing an opinion on the accuracy of a particular figure, they need an opinion of the overall reasonableness of the financial statements."

"If you are recruiting a team, you might find that short-term planning requirements suggest you should hire only STJs, but it’s crucial to spread the net more widely if you want a team with a wider range of personalities and would like these trainees to rise up through the ranks in your organisation."

That sounds like what my brother tries to do as he hires and grooms leaders in his auditing role. He's had to keep pushing to get other managers to see the need to hire more than accounting drones. The drones are needed, but drones don't become effective leaders.

[deuteros]

I think there are a bunch of reasons I find it unappealing and probably to most INTJs. This is my impression of accounting.

1.) You have to follow a set of rules or you lose your license.
2.) The rules often don't make sense or contradict each other.

You are correct. I am not yet a CPA but I plan on sitting for the exam with a year or two. I find accounting to be very boring. I've only worked in a public accounting setting and most accountants aren't even cut out for that so maybe I would enjoy corporate accounting more. To me a career in accounting is tolerable but I would much rather be doing something else.

The plus side is that if you are a CPA there are always jobs available and the pay is excellent.

[Pulse8402]

OK..... First off it is worth mentioning how I found this forum. I googled: accounting, INTx.

My story
During the past two months I have a) discovered my personality type. b) Finally found out why I was considered as eccentric by most off my friends and family. c) Figured out why I am an auditor (but am not eager to finish my CPA) and finally d) After months of depression and jumping from one perspective career path to the next, have found new hope and the career path I was always looking for.

I have discovered the path of "Forensic Accounting"!

I cannot even begin to describe the kind of relief one gets after finally finding the path to which they truly belong.

The reasons why Forensic Accounting may be appealing to any INT_.
1) Work directly with clients who make up mostly; small to large law firms.
2) Requires strong analytical, research, sampling, and quantitative/data analysis abilities.
3) Requires willingness to travel moderately or extensively.
4) Lets you delve into understanding of complex schemes, and theories.
.... and the list goes on and on!

*Note - Auditing and accounting are very different jobs. One reports and the other investigates.*

I am so happy that I have taken the time to fully research INT_s although I am an in between INTP and INTJ, at work I am a true INTJ!

I am 25 and I think it's never too late to reevaluate your goals and paths, to make certain that they compliment and support your values and fundamental beliefs.

[Mogura]

Hi Pulse8402,

Welcome home...

I take it you are in the U.S.

Are you a forensic accountant now, or is forensic accounting something you are currently re-aligning your career towards? If the latter, what steps are you taking or have taken to that end?

As an INTJ in the field of accounting, how did you find the educational experience?

[FMSTER]

Yes, INTJ CPAs do exist. I became one purely to obtain a job. My educational background at the time was a degree in math, and at the time could not find a job that paid as well as in accounting. So, I crammed four years of accounting into a nine month period and then passed the CPA exam.

The up-side is that it pays reasonably well. The down side is that the work is not challenging. I am now in a Ph.D. program in the social sciences, and hope to transition to a more satisfying academic career.





FMSTER added to this post, 10 minutes and 18 seconds later...

As a side note, an INTJ auditor or forensic accountant can be successful, as they utilize their natural intuition to identify problem areas BEFORE they actually do a lot of investigative work. The challenge, however, is to do the boring statistical sampling of transactions to support conclusions that have already been made and to ensure objectivity. After a few years of this, one can audit in their sleep. I typically delegate the boring, routine work to less experienced auditors who like routine.

[rasputin4]

I think if you combine accounting with manangerial accounting it is more interesting. A managerial accountant is more focused on budgets, costs and forecasts. Hence you have to understand more and are more free to decide independently from accounting rules.

[Thinker]

I was an (Australian) CPA - in practice for 25 years.

I was always in an intellectually stimulating work environment - so I found it pretty good. However, I had to re-invent myself a number of times because of the emphasis on being a technician.

I found that I much prefer the "big picture" type work - strategy - and accounting in the early years of a career can have a significant technical emphasis.
It is difficult to jump through the hoops to become qualified - and accounting is a dry subject. But that can be true of just about any career.

But......accounting is the language of business - so it is very important to understand. If you understand it intimately by working in a CPA firm for a few years you will position yourself well for senior positions - or a life in business.

[owly]

I am about to transfer from a community college to a university where I will be working to complete a bachelor's in Accounting. I have taken both intro courses, Financial and Managerial accounting and they weren't dreadful, not the most exciting subject but it was easy.

However, since I am classified as an INTJ and Accounting is supposedly not a good match for us, I hope that I don't regret this decision later in life.

My stats:
I N T J
89 75 88 22

In an ideal world and if I didn't have to worry about money, I would be majoring in something else like history for example.


Honest and sincere advice appreciated.

[plushbug]

I did my first career as a BComm grad finance clerk eventually upgrading to CMA finance officer working for Health Canada's Medical Services Branch (First Nations health services, in my case starting in the NWT then moving to NWOntario as FI for a zone running a small hospital plus a network of nursing stations, health clinics, etc., around ~35 northern reserve communities)...two or three thoughts:

First thought is that a couple of years before I bailed out of that role for reasons which weren't primarily due to the nature of the work itself (I was bored and burnt out, but it was a function of where I'd ended up doing the work, not so much the work intrinsically) practically every management-level employee in the organization got run through the MBTI as part of a "learning for leadership" program...and practically all the FI-staff (mostly CMAs) came out INTx, mostly INTJ. It was like "we're 1-3% of the population, and we're 90%+ of this population!"--really striking.

Second thought is that in university, back in the '70s, accounting was not my interest. It was unavoidable, as part of the BComm program I was in...and I was OK with basic bookkeeping (not highly challenging, but peaceful work and a marketable skill) and OK/mildly interested in cost accounting and financial analysis, but notice was served early that the backbone of public accounting practice was tax and audit, and both of these I loathed with a passion. Both bored me cross-eyed from Day 1, and the thought of spending the rest of my working life immersed in either was unthinkable. (Mildly interesting with hindsight, that the university never indicated there were any alternatives in accountancy, to becoming a CA. CMAs--then RIAs--and CGAs were apparently beneath consideration.)

That said, the big reason I eventually got my CMA, was to firm up my skills in the areas of accountancy where it turned out I did have both strength and interest. I really liked the analytical side of the work. Cost accounting, budgeting, forecasting, variance analysis, cost-benefit analysis--loved 'em. All the stuff that tended to boil down to taking wads of financial data and figuring out any or all of what the hell was going on beneath it, where situations were headed, and what the options were--not just producing ye good olde standard financials, but getting down into the data and distilling information that was capable of being ]useful for decision-making--for me, that rocked. I liked what I got to do in terms of AIS and operational systems development, too. Ending up as a manager sucked--I didn't and still don't like either people or politics enough to enjoy the accounting supervisor/manager role--and despite being conscientious and having decent guidance along the way, would never say I was better than "fair" as a supervisor--but I thoroughly enjoyed being an analyst advisor.

So INTJs / INTxs generally may not be best pick for public accounting, but in the more analytical, systems-oriented side of the business, we're capable of having fun.

[Entbark]

I would be miserable if I had to do accounting. Just hoping it never comes to that. Any data entry would be boring for me. Now if I had to design an accounting system, that would be more fun.

[lisakki]

I've just decided to get into auditing/advisory at a large accounting firm for 4 reasons:

1) I have an extremely high tolerance for boring tasks as long as I see a long-term benefit from it. I don't know if this applies to other INTJ's or not.

2) At the higher levels, accounting involves problem solving. I interned at a mid-sized company's corp center last summer, and during lunch with the executives I remember a quote from the CFO that pretty much summed up what I saw the accounting department managers doing for the time I was there:
"Accounting, to me, is like a puzzle. My mind works in a certain, logical way, and it's satisfying when you put the pieces together"

3) Accounting leads to bigger and better things. Unlike IT positions, you get broad business knowledge which can help you land a spot in top management.

4) Because of it's dry nature, accounting isn't nearly as competitive a field as computer science would've been for me. Although this may change in the future, I still to date have not yet heard of a competent CPA who couldn't find a job.

I hope I'm right with my analysis, because if I'm wrong, I'm going to have some big regrets later in life.

[karenann33]

I'm a CPA. I spent 20 years in the field before quitting to raise my kids. I worked at large firms as an auditor and enjoyed it.

[gangr]

I am not a CPA, but am both an INTJ and Senior Accountant. I chose the industry track and have been exposed to numerous opportunities to work on process improvements, systems upgrades, and general problem solving. My focus when looking for jobs is to find something on a yearly cycle because the month-end closing, etc became very monotonous. I now enjoy a position with a smaller company (partnership-baed, with LLCs) that affords me the opportunity to work on a yearly cycle (financial modeling, yearly working papers, etc). This is only my second position since I graduated from college, but I have stayed for a while.

[dnyitray]

Most of my experience is in the UK, but I would say the following:



Initially I would do a bit of research and then try to go for something more specific. First decide on the system - nowadays I would only go for Oracle or SAP. If you're in the States I'd recommend Oracle Financials.

Oracle careers tend to be split between Technical and Functional (I'll ignore DBA as I really don't think that's a career for an INTJ). The technical route may be a bit easier to get into given your IT background, but it may not be a big enough change from your current career. E.g. an Oracle developer would use PL/SQL to write programs, write customised reports and screens etc.

With Functional (which I do) there is more work with the business users to understand their requirements and then trying to use the standard configuration & functionality of the system to meet these requirements. If the standard system can't meet the business requirements then you work with the Developers to create a customised solution. You then have to sell the solution back to the business. And once you've gone live you have to solve any Production issues.

Once you've decided on the route I would go for specific training. The cheapest way to get trained up is to work for a consultancy firm, as they will train you up. They will want you to have good written and verbal communication skills. Not having a Finance background may put them off, but I'm not sure. Try going on Jobserve and see what various job requirements are. Alternatively you can go on the Oracle University website and book a course / buy a CD course just to see if you like it. It is costly, but may help you decide.



Yes, but only once you've built up your skills (at least 3 years) as without the experience you won't get the work. A LOT of guys in the UK are independent contractors, which pays well and you are your own boss. I haven't done it as I like the security of a monthly pay cheque.



It just really helps to be able to speak the same language. You don't have to do a 3 year Accounting qualification like me, but a short business finance / accounting course would be worthwhile.

Whatever you do don't go into auditing, not even system audit. As an INTJ you have proved you have a personality. To be an Auditor you must fail the personality test.

HI, I am new here, but I need to disagree with you. I am an INTJ, I am currently a financial analyst/advisor, but for nearly 8 years I was an Internal Auditor. I am also a past president of my local chapter of the Institute of Internal Auditors (IIA).

It was actually pretty neat finding problems, fixing problems. I traveled the globe fixing things, doing fraud investigations, forensic accounting etc...

I am going back for my Accounting and Finance degrees with the intention of getting my CPA and my CIA, but I did have a Criminal Justice and a Business Management degree when they hired me. I am also bi-lingual which helped and I was an MP in the Army.

[MikeC]

If I could do it all over again, I'd take up accountancy.

[mizantropia]

This too was a concern of mine. I'm relieved to hear that one can both be an INTJ and an accountant without going nuts. I'm going to school for my MBA and plan on sitting for the CPA exam soon after. From what I've read so far, becoming an auditor seems like a rewarding path to take.

[Cthulhu]

I'm a CPA. I worked in audit for the first few years for one of the Big 4 (It was Big 6 back then) and it was pretty tedious. Things got much better when I went to grad school and then moved over to the consulting side.

[m stranger]

I'm a CPA and have done stints in auditing, financial analysis, accounting management, controllership, business process consulting, and SOX compliance consulting. I'm at a crossroads in that I will have to change employment soon. A few comments:

GAAP is an interesting body of guidance, and there are a number of particularly fascinating issues to chew on. Yes, there are often dry rules, but an INTJ could spend a long time working through some very entertaining accounting problems. One could conceivably carve out a fairly compelling career as an audit partner or lower-level subject matter expert in an accounting firm. However, the level of politics involved in getting there could be daunting. Based on what knowledgeable friends have told me, the Big 4 partners are also running scared and afraid to make decisions these days in the wake of Arthur Andersen's collapse. It SHOULD be an ideal INTJ career, but I suspect it is far from it in reality. On the other hand, beginning a career as an auditor is a remarkable education in the overall workings of business.

Accounting and accounting management and traditional controller-type roles can be fatally dry if they are not mixed with larger-scope, more engaging activities. The month end and year end closing cycles are the nearest near-death experiences I've had the displeasure to take part in. There can be enormous resources devoted to minutiae, a situation which can drive an INTJ bonkers. On the other hand, a controller overseeing a team of competent individuals or a function requiring lots of problem-solving, and one who has the authority to exercise strategic influence on the organization can find it uniquely fulfilling. They possess a uniquely broad understanding of the workings of the business. And in some cases they can make the leap to CFO, which is a much more strategic role.

I myself am burnt out on the business world. While accounting and finance have afforded me a nice path up the ranks, and quickly enough to avoid getting too bored, my gut feeling at my crossroads moment is that I'm not cut out for the unrelenting politics that is so pervasive in so many organizations. It's just the way it works, and as much as you might want to think you have what it takes to reach the level where YOU can drive the politics (correctly, after all, we are INTJs, we have ALL the answers), it is a very, very, very difficult thing to accomplish. Without writing a dissertation on it (which could be valuable, actually), I have been surprised by how often the values so metaphysically embraced by INTJs are not present in business workings. Having seen a large number and wide variety of businesses from my various industry and consulting/audit positions, I feel like I speak with some authority on that.

So ... where does that leave me? Don't. Know. *Sigh* I do know that, unless I find a virtually ideal set of circumstances for my next controller-like gig, I want to run as far and fast from the accounting world as I can. And that's a challenge, as it pays well. I've sold my soul to the devil, and now I want it back.

[Thinker]

m stranger
Wow do I relate to your post.

I was a CPA for around 20 years....ended up being CEO and a Principal in a medium sized firm. Each career step was a natural progression, all the way to CEO.
The continual career progression kept me intellectually stimulated and interested in the industry. Eventually a huge partnership fight meant that I moved out of the industry.

After 5 years I am now CFO in a well funded R&D organisation in the energy sector.
I choose my own staff, get heaps of travel, and have enough strategic work to keep me intellectually stimulated. Having said that, it was a tough road from CEO to CFO.
Now, I rely on experts to provide me with the technical inputs to make decisions....I don't have to continually worry about being up to date on all of the technical issues....that's what staff and consultants are for!

You are right....accounting can burn you out unless you keep re-inventing yourself to keep the challenges coming. The money is great and can become a real trap.

As an INTJ in the accounting field, I think you can keep on running out of steam unless you keep your eye on opportunities to diversify and continue to grow.

I am unsure about your assertion that: the values so metaphysically embraced by INTJs are not present in business workings.

As an ex-CEO, I can say that an INTJ personality is well suited to the business world and can have a significant contribution in senior ranks. In fact a number of people I come into contact with at the moment, who are on various boards with me are INTJ's.
These are people from very senior positions (CEO's etc) within Fortune 500 companies (or companies of a similar size or larger).

My current CEO is an INTJ and we have a great professional relationship.

I think the accounting/finance field is a fantastic industry for an INTJ...you just have to find your niche and keep working at finding challenges.

[Mogura]

Personality: What It Takes To Be An Accountant (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)

Summary:

The idea of an “accounting ability” was examined. It was determined that the
dominant type for an undergraduate accounting student was ESTJ. However, it was also
noted that the dominant type for all business students was also ESTJ. The STJ profile of
accounting students is very robust across numerous studies and leads to the issue of
whether the profile is linked to superior performance in accounting classes. The
similarities of personality types between undergraduate students and accounting faculty
was also noted in this study. However, future research is needed to explore the impact of
the relationship between faculty and student personality types on student classroom
performance in accounting courses.

The STJ type is dominant in business overall, but most in business do not rise to
upper management. Keirsey.com (2003) describes the ESTJ as the supervisor type and
the ISTJ as the inspector type. This appears to be a logical fit for the accountant/CPA.
The NT types are described as rational, with the ENTJ described as the fieldmarshall
type, and the INTJ as the mastermind type and may be a logical fit for upper
management. Schloemer and Schloemer (1997) found that 61 percent of CPA firm
partners have a preference for intuition over sensing while only 20 percent at the staff
level do. This may reflect the fact that partners need a broad perspective, must be able to
apply abstract reasoning, and utilize unstructured problem solving skills not needed at the
staff level. Additional research needs to be conducted to examine the personality type
differences, if any, between entry level accountants and those who rise to upper
management within public accounting.

[machx]

I am 28, in Finance with an undergrad in Finance. I am in the brokerage side and can't stand it (but neither can anyone in my office, so I think it's more the company than the field.) I have been weighing leaving the business world but I have changed my mind and am planning on pursuing an MBA in Professional Accounting and a CPA to follow.

I have been thinking that I would prefer Forensic Accounting / Auditing. I googled "INTJ and Accounting" and stumbled upon this wonderful thread. I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who has contributed to this.

I was feeling a bit worried about what I was doing, but this thread really shows how Accounting is such a wide field that there are roles for everyone. In Accounting, as in many other fields, it seems that the INTJ is only happy as an architect / manager of systems. When dragged into the drudgery of repetitive mindless tasks, he will be miserable, but when challenged with new puzzles he will rise to the top and be happy. At least this is the way I see it

Thanks all!!! And thanks to Mogura for asking my question before I knew I had it:)

[zippikay]

Intend to get CPA first, I'll see how it goes if I can integrate accounting skill and knowledge...

[cmrain]

I have my CPA.

I agree with the findings posted by Mogura under what it takes to be an accountant. With my current field of vision, I feel like the rewards will come when I reach a management role better suited to rationals. ESTJ and ISTJ definitely predominate in audit.

I would also note that each little step up the rung toward management seems to make things easier for me and for my SJ counterparts, possibly for different reasons. If I had it to do over, I would still choose to go ahead and take my CPA since I decided on being in business. Plan to integrate it with the field of finance.

[aragorn]

Do INTJ CPAs exist? Do you know of any?

I am one but am not and have never been an accountant.

[Obs3ss3d]

I'd take being an accountant over my previous job, any day. That wouldn't be a stretch for me either, because I took cost and management accounting, financial accounting and taxation as my major subjects at varsity. Working as a reseacher for a recruitment agancy, I had to make 40 phone calls per day. That was slow torture, then the recession hit, and they hiked up the phone call requirements to 100 calls per day. I resigned a week later.

[kaarthi]

Being a commerce grad I would say Accounting is BS. You are required to stick to rules. Absolutely no room for brainstorming different ways to solve a problem. I had trouble with the subject in school and college. But I love Accounting Analysis though.

[ZincLysine]

My sister is an accountant and her lifestyle isn't appealing to me. She graduated from the top university in the UK and has worked for various global leading companies since the mid 90s. She doesn't make enough money to move into working on her own yet and she's hitting 35 this year. Even the small bits of accounting I did in management modules never appealed to me. It makes me feel like I'm a process monkey without having to use much of my own cognition.

Everyone tells me that I should just start studying towards an accountancy qualification as I've been unemployed so long. I've decided if by Dec I'm still unemployed, I'll start. However, its a career I'd rather avoid.

[jadedangel]

My dad is an accountant. I can't stand it. I hate business on a whole. Maybe marketing and advertising is OK, but start flinging debits, credits, ledgers and crap in my face just gets me annoyed. That said, I do IT auditing in an accounting firm and literally my nerves can't handle it anymore. Accounting eeech!!!

[heartland]

Everyone tells me that I should just start studying towards an accountancy qualification as I've been unemployed so long. I've decided if by Dec I'm still unemployed, I'll start. However, its a career I'd rather avoid.

That reminds me of an anecdote in a book by Stephen Fry, he said the careers guidance counsellor at his school just put down 'accountant' for any student who didn't know what they wanted to do.

There are too many accountants in the UK already, resist!

I am an accountant, I am lucky enough to have found a position where strategic planning features strongly. The nuts and bolts of accountancy are of no interest to me.

In my career to date I have done pretty much all the jobs that an accountant is qualified for, and most of them didn't appeal, but the strategic planning aspect in my current role I do find comparatively interesting.

One thing I did enjoy when I worked for a small firm was getting closely involved in clients' business to the extent that advice I gave would actually influence decisions. In my experience, this rarely occurs in a Big 4 environment.

Overall, and speaking from experience, accountancy is not a particularly good match for an INTJ. As others have mentioned, there too many pointless rules and routines, little room for creativity, and basically when it comes down to it, most INTJ's are simply too intelligent to be accountants. Accountancy suits people of moderate intelligence who are average at maths.

That said, I've made a reasonable career out of it and even just having CPA or equivalent designation on one's resume is no disadvantage.

---------- Post added 03-28-2010 at 12:56 AM ----------

On the subject of the suitability of accounting as a possible career path for INTJs, I did some research on the Web and have observed that while the accounting field was not mentioned as a possible career path for INTJs, the auditing field was.

Interesting... I wonder why auditing would be suitable for INTJs (while accounting is not)? What is it about auditing that INTJs would enjoy (I am curious about this)?

Would anyone care to share some insight? Thanks.

I know this post is from two years ago, but just wanted to comment anyway. I can think of no good reason why auditing would be suited to INTJ's. In my experience, it is routine, plodding work, of the type that is not likely to hold the attention of an INTJ for longer than a few minutes at most.

There is a specialised area of auditing called forensic accounting - basically fraud investigation - that is probably suited to the INTJ personality, but normal routine auditing - I don't think so.

---------- Post added 03-28-2010 at 01:39 AM ----------

First thought is that a couple of years before I bailed out of that role for reasons which weren't primarily due to the nature of the work itself (I was bored and burnt out, but it was a function of where I'd ended up doing the work, not so much the work intrinsically) practically every management-level employee in the organization got run through the MBTI as part of a "learning for leadership" program...and practically all the FI-staff (mostly CMAs) came out INTx, mostly INTJ. It was like "we're 1-3% of the population, and we're 90%+ of this population!"--really striking.

It's funny, I was going to post a thread "Do INTJ's run the world?"...and it turns out, we really do.

I think I might set my reassess my personal career objectives and focus on a top management position. I'm already not that far off without even trying too hard.

For a thread about accountants, this one turned out pretty interesting - to me, at least.

[Mogura]

There is now a thread for ENTJ Accountants (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.).

[dwillis1393]

Thanks i'm gonna reconsider majoring in accountancy

[Fishism]

I like what both Thinker and m Stranger are suggesting: That accounting is a valuable tool the INTJ CEO/Financial Manager can use in financial system management. However, it can be boring and unrewarding if all you're doing is providing the numbers instead of being able to interpret, analyze and use them to guide the ship.

I am a CEO with an accounting backround and I won't move a muscle without accurately prepared statements. I need those details to support my intuitions, much like any worthwhile debate here on the INTJf is dominated with requests and samples of citations.

As an analogy, accountants are the "scorekeepers" of business, providing stats and determining winners and losers. When I was younger, I learned how to legitimately keep score for baseball games (eg: Flyball to left = F7, groundout to second = 4-3). When done properly, the whole game can be translated and a story told. Also, from accumulated games, stats and trends present themselves and so much is derived from simply "keeping score". I knew then that I translating my love of keeping score into accounting was a natural fit. We love the big picture and accurate accounting paints it.

[MyWingHK]

Yes, I am a part qualified CPA/CA.But not by choice between a useless educational phycologist by the name of Steve Mack(who basically told me that I was too comlicated to be understood) and a father bent on me becoming a accountant, guess what I became a accountant.Now 10 years from when the decision was made for me I am officially a very unhappy accountant.If you live in South Africa and you are a INTJ I suggest you avoid Steve Mack like the plage.But on the positive side you know how to cook the books if you ever own your own business and there are jobs in accountancy.

I born in Hong Kong but I lived in Pretoria for 19 years, I am a INTJ, cause I force myself to think like an ISTJ, (have lots of examples to copy ha ha), after couple of attempts I am a CA(SA) - TIPP.

Therefore yes CPA/CA INTJ does exists.

I have a B.Sc (Hons) (Comp Sci) at Tuks as well and I can tell you I enjoy programming much much more. Since I don't know whether you are at CTA/QE1 level. If you already have QE1 then try to have CIMA and according to rules from SAICA then you can be CA(SA) - TOPP.

From my point of view, you go on the CA route that far, I will not give up, learn to be an ISTJ.

My advice to you ...

One day I was at (RAU or now UJ to study) they told me that if you learn the reasoning behind AC 000 (Framework) then you know the whole IFRS (this become a trap to me). "DON'T" try to question. INTJ is too easy to fall for the trap to understand "WHY", there is no WHY in Accountant, just REMEMBER. I think after you learn that like me did then you will be successful.

There is not such a thing call Compiler (as in IT), Accounting Rule are complex and they can be wrong, like the old lease statements, so don't argue, we INTJ like argue too much.

Practice, Practice and Practice "Absolutely don't goes to Theory, too easy for us to fall into trap and thinking it should be like this or that ...." QUESTION, even learn theory though QUESTION

Don't just try to get the Broad picture. Just focus to learn this section 100%, my point is that you present with a Consolidation question, you have to know every rule in (inter-company transaction) and not as a whole I know Consolidation ... they will ask those little rule in the "interpretation" (Exception to the Exception) and you will not know and can't ask.

[12357]

... marketing and advertising...

advertising designers are ok for me
but marketing people! they keep putting me off i heard my screaming inside (many times)

---------- Post added 04-04-2012 at 06:45 AM ----------

Not quite sure I understand your post? (to MyWingHK)

---------- Post added 04-04-2012 at 06:57 AM ----------

Yes, I am a part qualified CPA/CA.But not by choice between a useless educational phycologist by the name of Steve Mack(who basically told me that I was too comlicated to be understood) and a father bent on me becoming a accountant, guess what I became a accountant.Now 10 years from when the decision was made for me I am officially a very unhappy accountant.If you live in South Africa and you are a INTJ I suggest you avoid Steve Mack like the plage.But on the positive side you know how to cook the books if you ever own your own business and there are jobs in accountancy.

nearly 4-year passed by, are you happier (least a little bit) if you are still in the profession?

[MyWingHK]

Just What don't you understand "12357"

In short if you look at the new Lease statement and how different it is to the Old Lease statement and you understand (& the new Contract Sale statement).

One thing also the Framework do not contain (not update now and previously I am sure) Substance over Form, the Whole old (& new) Lease statement is draw on this principle deeply so why the Framework (in my view) don't explain or define Substance over Form. When ask the question to the ISAB (though e-symposium) they say it is integrate into one of the "Quality" thing written on the statement. My question please add that into the Framework explain more pls .....

Since I don't know what you don't understand I can't say too much just contact me if you want.

[Thinker]

I was one for 20 years :)
In that time I worked my way up to senior partner and CEO.
Like any job...you can continue to grow as long as you keep looking for opportunities.

The early "grind" in getting up to speed with the legal issues was more about how you viewed the work and had enough intellectual and strategic issues to keep a young mind busy.

It's how you view the job....not how others see it....

[helmbrechtsman]

I confess. I am an intj cpa. I started in polymer chemistry and after being laid off my practical side got the best of me. I went back to school for accounting and passed the CPA exam on the first try. I ended up in public accounting. I loved it because I was learning a new career. I eventually hated the long hours as it interferred with all my other hobbies. I went into accounting in private and it was so boring doing the same month end close. I went into internal auditing where everything is about identifying and testing controls in processes. I can see I liked the concepts while learning accounting. Internal auditing is okay but it I find it boring after doing it for 10 years. I have tried to make it interesting by teaching people about controls when I audit. However, most of the people I have met in accounting and auditing are not intj's. To them, following an audit program is to goal of auditing. To me it is trying to understand and change processes. Many of them cannot see my way of thinking so I have just given up and concentrated on my hobbies. My advice is to not be an intj CPA.

[Mogura]

To them, following an audit program is to goal of auditing. To me it is trying to understand and change processes.
I think I can understand that. I've been involved in a few IT audits, where my managers took the approach that audits were something to be feared, and you only need to "shape up" directly before the audit. I, on the other hand, saw audits as an opportunity to learn what we were doing wrong, and by that, improve our controls. I never really understood why people are so damn afraid of audits. As long as you're not a complete fuck-up (i.e., follow the rules and do your job), you should be fine...

[INTJfml]

Another intj cpa here. Accounting absolutely appeals to my logical/intuitive side. Unfortunately, just about everything that comes with working in corporate america and others I pretty much despise. Though again, that doesn't really relate to the accounting at all.

[damiandee]

Hi Mogura,

I've wondering how you went with wanting to become an accountant?

Looking at your posts (which go back some time!) I'm in a similar position to you. I'm definitely an INTJ and considering accountancy. It has so many positives such as business ownership options, above average pay, good job availability, job stability, respected by peers etc etc...

However the one thing I'm a bit worried about is that it could be repetitive and dare I say it boring. My view is that the more senior you become the more variety and problem solving you are exposed too, which is good for an INTJ.

Also, I'm looking to become a Financial Accountant which means you have a portfolio of clients, regular interaction (meetings & ph calls), and a wide variety of issues to deal with.

Let me know your thoughts. I'm interested to hear what you learnt.

Regards
Damian

[Mogura]

Hi Damian,

If memory serves correct, around the time I made the post I was being encouraged by my then employer and the head of auditing to pursue a specialization in IT auditing. I had a knack for stumbling upon irregularities, doggedly pursuing them, investigating, etc. which is in all likelihood what got me noticed.

Anyway, I considered it, and started looking into the broader field of accounting (including financial) as a possible career option, thinking that my innate talents for investigating and auditing may apply. Not only that, a lot of accountants (CPAs) seemed to be self-employed, which in itself, really appealed to me.

I did some self-reflection, and while I am good at the investigation side of things. I probably suck at the other stuff. This is true of situations where "the rules" or procedures go against logic or rational thinking. Plus, I have a horrible memory. I'd probably crash and burn trying to keep all of those arbitrary rules straight. Anyway, that was my impression of financial accounting, and decided that it probably isn't for me.

With that said, I have been following this thread, and have been quite impressed with the quality of responses, points of view, etc. It has been enlightening in that sense.

Though probably not material to the discussion, at the time I made the original post I thought I was an INTJ... :cheesy:

[sircockburn]

And I wrote that "ENTJ Accountants" thread when I thought I was an ENTJ. ;)

My epilogue? I (barely) graduated with my Accounting BS, and I ended up not using it all, since I ended up founding a social media startup, that's doing well - and now I have my own accountant. :nice:

It's good that I can interpret what she does, but I'm glad I don't do it for a living.

[serenesam]

Do INTJ CPAs exist? Do you know of any?

It's interesting you propose this question. I have always been told that I should go into accounting by people who have no idea what my MBTI is of course, being an INTJ, and because I took accounting in high school. Accounting is not hard, just a lot to know, like what to add and what to subtract, and although it can get pretty complicated, if you have good memory, you should do fine. To me, the material is just way too dry, I prefer economics.

---------- Post added 09-18-2012 at 02:03 PM ----------

You see, with economics, I get to spend long, long hours describing why we should do something (like a stimulus bill - Paul Krugman) and then spend additional several, several hours describing why we should not do something (like how a stimulus bill destroys the economy - Peter Schiff). :)

[zetroc]

I'm thinking about changing careers into accounting as well. Perhaps with a goal to become an auditor or have my own firm as some have pointed out.

@serenesam I think you are right about economics being more fun. I think I would naturally prefer economics as well, since I naturally gravitate to reading economic reports, but I live in a small town with no universities or major corps, so it would make it hard for me to find a job.

[godisanatheist]

I'm thinking about changing careers into accounting as well. Perhaps with a goal to become an auditor or have my own firm as some have pointed out.

@serenesam I think you are right about economics being more fun. I think I would naturally prefer economics as well, since I naturally gravitate to reading economic reports, but I live in a small town with no universities or major corps, so it would make it hard for me to find a job.

I'm taking advance auditing courses right now in my program and I can see how an NTJ type would do better than a STJ, as everything is in grey and you need to make decisions based on fitting the rules and whatnot into the big picture.

The one thing is that public auditing is a very people-intensive job. I don't have a very strong I (65/35 I guess) so I think I could manage.


Can anyone in this thread with information or experience with IT Auditing shed some light? The field seems highly interesting to me and I'd like to work in it when I graduate this coming year.

[Mogura]

Adding a bit more to my post made on 9-15-2012...

What appealed to me most about accounting/certified public accounting was the prospect of self-employment. I don't necessarily want to start a company with a staff, etc. I just wanted to be an enterprise of one, and accounting, with its high rate of self-employment, seemed like the answer.

However, despite the appeal and opportunities, I think that I would probably still end up hating it due to the very nature of accounting, and my own interests and the way my brain is wired, which don't really completment each other.

I'm still on the lookout for self-employment opportunities, but not so much in accounting...

[Rat Redux]

On the subject of the suitability of accounting as a possible career path for INTJs, I did some research on the Web and have observed that while the accounting field was not mentioned as a possible career path for INTJs, the auditing field was.

Interesting... I wonder why auditing would be suitable for INTJs (while accounting is not)? What is it about auditing that INTJs would enjoy (I am curious about this)?

Would anyone care to share some insight? Thanks.

To complicate the issue further consider the forensic accountant specialty. :)

[hgrail]

INTJ CPA here..

I recommend getting the CPA credential highly as a stepping stone. Everyone thinks they know what a CPA is - it will open doors for you that you didn't know existed.
Jobs descriptions over and over ask for a CPA these days - even if the responsibilities don't really warrant it. Having CPA's in a company's management or reporting/auditing department give them credibility, and give management peace of mind that the employees knew what they were doing before they walked in the door.

Unfortunately, the CPA profession (ie. public accountant) is really a production job, and although the work is interesting while you are learning it (financial reporting and tax anyhow) it quickly turns into a mind numbing production line sort of thing. For an INTJ I would recommend the auditing route if you can get it- it will provide some (some) relief from the monotony and is a good lead in for other positions. Plenty of folks leave the accounting firm to work for a client as an analyst, manager, director, CFO or etc and that can be good for certain folks. If there is an INTJ who has taken this route please chime in.

Folks also often get their time in, get the CPA (get the heck out) and then go into forensic accounting (as mentioned), fraud investigations, consulting or financial reporting in any number of industries. I've also known a number of people to start their own firm once they have their letters. Positions in fraud investigations and forensic accounting are also getting very popular at the state and federal government level these days for obvious reasons.

---------- Post added 09-30-2012 at 11:12 PM ----------

I confess. I am an intj cpa. I started in polymer chemistry and after being laid off my practical side got the best of me. I went back to school for accounting and passed the CPA exam on the first try. I ended up in public accounting. I loved it because I was learning a new career. I eventually hated the long hours as it interferred with all my other hobbies. I went into accounting in private and it was so boring doing the same month end close. I went into internal auditing where everything is about identifying and testing controls in processes. I can see I liked the concepts while learning accounting. Internal auditing is okay but it I find it boring after doing it for 10 years. I have tried to make it interesting by teaching people about controls when I audit. However, most of the people I have met in accounting and auditing are not intj's. To them, following an audit program is to goal of auditing. To me it is trying to understand and change processes. Many of them cannot see my way of thinking so I have just given up and concentrated on my hobbies. My advice is to not be an intj CPA.

That's a bummer. I imagine any job would get boring after that many years for an INTJ. I haven't had to try it yet - so we'll see.

I tried with no success to get into internal audit for several years - but things worked out for me in other unexpected ways so no complaints.

I've found generally that most accountants can't follow my thought process as well. I'm good at understanding the business and what the numbers mean in the financial statements, so I can talk to management and tell them what is going on. Since I was good at interpreting the financials I found I enjoyed being an analyst. That has been a rewarding skill which keeps coming in handy.

---------- Post added 10-01-2012 at 06:22 PM ----------

For some reason I was thinking further about this today. Wishing that 25 years ago someone had given me better career direction. Though I guess I wouldn't have listened anyhow-

I found when I was taking accounting-related college classes - the first classes were really dull, rules and memorization. You don't get to the interesting stuff (analysis, interpretation, troubleshooting) until the higher level classes. An accounting career is much the same. The first few years is a bunch of learning the ropes, production and boring crap. Get your letters and get the heck out. Go do something interesting.

Here is my perception of several accounting related roles based on my direct experience.

Public Accounting:
Audit -Learn about many diff companies and businesses in very short period of time. Network like crazy. Eventually perhaps get hired by a client. Good place to start an accounting career. Expect long hours & plenty of travel.

Taxes (Corporate and individual) Oh God, if I have to fill out ONE MORE FORM.. (But pays them bills)
Payroll Taxes Oh God, if I have to fill out ONE MORE FORM.. (But pays them bills)

Consulting (CPA as well as non-CPA)
Runs the gamut from financial compliance to help with financial reporting and account reconciliations. Some projects are good some are not as interesting. Meet lots of people and develop plenty of relationships if you are into that thing. All projects are always behind schedule because the client always waits until they are knee deep in trouble to call for help. If you don't like deadlines this may not be fun for you. If you like excitement and can handle the stress you may love this. Expect long hours & lots of travel.

Financial Reporting (Insurance)
GAAP financial reporting- All companies need GAAP accountants, and these folks generally get paid better than the statutory accounts. Having said that, GAAP accounting can be vague and most of the disclosures are written by lawyers. Good for a qualification on the resume but I didn't find this to be fun for me. Deadlines galore and everything has to get through three layers of legal review..

statutory financial reporting- Insanely detailed method of solvency accounting that the states require the insurance companies to use. Extremely structured and difficult to understand (until you get the hang of it). Doing variance analysis and troubleshooting in stat accounting can be tricky - so if you can master it you can have fun and be appreciated (sometimes). Very specialized and if you have these skills you will always have a job. Insurance companies pay fairly well and the detail and troubleshooting were appealing to me so this was a skill this INTJ leans on heavily to this day. Recommended.

Sales Analyst- Basically working through the numbers to determine what is selling, where, who should get paid for it, and what it cost us to make (if you don't have a cost accountant). Making and selling widgets is fun. Some widgets and industries are more fun than others. I had full access to the manufacturing floor and knew everything from raw materials to final product as it went out the door. Had interations with all levels of management, manufacturing and engineering. Recommended for an INTJ (if you can find a manufacturer that hasn't moved to China yet).

Business/Systems Analyst- Generally involves getting business needs from management, figuring out what is needed and how to implement said solution across the company. Since I had an accounting background, but have always been a systems geek this was a natural for me. Since I can actually communicate well (which accountants don't have a good reputation for doing well), I found that I was a good liason between management and systems and could make stuff happen. Usually it would start by me complaining to my director about something like "blah blah, this system sucks, why can't we do it this way instead." to which they usually responded - "Good idea - Make it so." Recommended if you are an INTJ who likes building things and/or helping people. I always found systems folks more interesting than accountants anyhow. Consider joining ISACA.org as these are good systems geeks to network with. Leave the tie at home for these meetings.

Fraud Investigator- Figure out where the money went. Try to prevent it from going away again. If you're lucky - get some back. If you like puzzles and don't mind documenting everything to the Nth degree this might be for you. +2 if you like working with police officers. I had some opportunities working on instances of fraud and very much enjoyed figuring out what happened, who was involved, and how to fix the controls so the problem couldn't occur again. Also make sure the critters get locked up. Look at/consider joining organizations such a the Association for Certified Fraud Examiners ACFE.com. Recommended for INTJs.

Financial/Credit Analysis- Figure out which companies are going to blow up before the market does and warn whoever is paying your salary.. Analysts are used by everyone from trader shops to insurance companies. Involves tonnes of detail, number crunching and sometimes intuition to get you going in the right direction. In some places you have a great deal of lattitude in how to get the job done and the resources to apply as long as you have a reputation for making the right call. Having a CPA and other certs gives you credability here. Recommended for INTJs.

[Moniker9]

I am considering going into accounting. I'm attracted to it because it seems very marketable and stable, I also like the possibility of working from home and possibly becoming self employed. I have two prime concerns:

1) How vulnerable is the profession to outsourcing and automation?

2) Are there any aspects of accounting which might make it difficult for an intj to become competent in it? For example, does it rely excessively on the Sensing function?

~Edit: My primary concern is job stability, not enjoyment.

[LexRex]

I have an accounting degree.

[Gefyon]

I am considering going into accounting. I'm attracted to it because it seems very marketable and stable, I also like the possibility of working from home and possibly becoming self employed. I have two prime concerns:

1) How vulnerable is the profession to outsourcing and automation?

2) Are there any aspects of accounting which might make it difficult for an intj to become competent in it? For example, does it rely excessively on the Sensing function?

~Edit: My primary concern is job stability, not enjoyment.

1. Not very, in my experience. But it probably depends on what sort of accounting you are interested in. I have never had any trouble finding jobs regardless of where I lived (small, very rural towns to major metro areas). It's been pretty recession proof. And I've always made enough money to provide for me and my two kids.

2. Depends on what type of accounting you are doing. I saw accounting as a relational system (as corporate accounting is built around a mathematical equation). As such, I was able to bring a lot of my INTJ to the table in a productive way - making constant improvements to efficiency within the process.

The cyclical nature of business accounting can drive you nuts though, because you are never *finished*. But that is just job security when you think about it.

Forensic accounting is probably the most interesting aspect of accounting that I dealt with, but it is very niche - not a huge demand for it.

[Continuity]

Well I have an accounting diploma, I assume CPA is the American equivalent of chartered accountancy in the UK?
Personally I have no desire to take accountancy to that level, even though the opportunity is there, my boss wants me to do it and the company would sponsor... but I just can't face it.

[Moniker9]

2. Depends on what type of accounting you are doing. I saw accounting as a relational system (as corporate accounting is built around a mathematical equation). As such, I was able to bring a lot of my INTJ to the table in a productive way - making constant improvements to efficiency within the process.


Which particular sub-fields of accounting do you think INTJs are best suited for?

[Gefyon]

Which particular sub-fields of accounting do you think INTJs are best suited for?

I found public accounting to be downright awful, unless I was called on to build an accounting system from the ground up for a client. Too much contact with the general public and not enough autonomy.

Business/corporate accounting was a good fit for me, personally, but I wouldn't want to apply that to INTJ's across the board. I especially liked manufacturing and project oriented industries, as there are more moving parts and more opportunities to improve the system. And I preferred working in small to medium sized businesses to avoid Cubicle-land. I do better in smaller accounting departments where I can have more control and more involvement in the big picture.

I have no experience with investment type accounting, so I can't really speak to that.

[Chan]

I have considered accounting in the past too. It is perfect for an ISTJ and I have moved between the N and S categories over time. It could possibly depend on how strong your N/S score is.

[Barrister]

I studied accounting at university. It's a very boring area that I found to be not intellectually stimulating at all. Working in a firm for a while only put a nail in that coffin. That didn't stop me finishing the degree though through my own determination.

I'm studying law now at university, MUCH MUCH more rewarding to study than accounting, and more rewarding financially too.