Life has no Meaning?

[JasonM]

What about the belief that life has no meaning? I can understand this, since, in the grand scheme of things, our lives are but a sliver in time, so what does it really mean if you get that raise or pass that exam? It's trivial. However, I think that there is a difference between personal meaning and universal meaning. On a personal level, we feel uncontrollable positive emotions about getting that raise, and, therefore, we say that it has "meaning." No amount of philosophizing can take that feeling away from you. And also, from a pragmatic standpoint, I think it would be foolish for someone to actually adopt this belief into their belief system. The point of life is to be happy. If someone were to feel that life has no meaning, they would lead a very poor life. Therefore, if at all possible, that belief should be rejected, in order to be happy.

[ShaiGar]

Our lives have no preordained meaning.
Give the meaning to yourself.

[Retz]

I can say I do agree that it is good to be happy. However I wouldn't take on inaccurate beliefs to be happy because I am happy by being as right as I can be.

That's the main reason I argue so much. To see other peoples perspectives and beliefs and to tear them to shreds in my own mind the reason I have to explain why they to me don't make sense is purely to see if there are points I am missing. I don't really mind what people think unless it impacts negatively on me or others that I do care about.

It's a good feeling to understand people.

[Marcus Brutus]

Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player, that struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more; it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

I think life may not have an objective reason. But perhaps that only frees us to find our own purposes. I suppose though we cannot ultimately philosophically justify our meanings or reasons and that at some base level this is going to be something abitrary about them. But that's ok, can we not, like Albert Camus' Outsider be content with "the gentle indifference of the world"? Or perhaps in fulfilling our curiousity is where we find meaning. Humans are constantly trying to understand the nature of the world they live in. Perhaps it is not the objective existence of meaning, but the search for this meaning that gives some sort of purpose...

[Antares]

Well, I've always agreed with the core beliefs of nihilism. I don't think life has an objective meaning; my life simply as meaningful as I make it, and I think I know what I want from this life. I suppose nihilism is more common with agnostics, atheists, deists and pantheists.

[Retz]

I think life may not have an objective reason. But perhaps that only frees us to find our own purposes. I suppose though we cannot ultimately philosophically justify our meanings or reasons and that at some base level this is going to be something abitrary about them. But that's ok, can we not, like Albert Camus' Outsider be content with "the gentle indifference of the world"? Or perhaps in fulfilling our curiousity is where we find meaning. Humans are constantly trying to understand the nature of the world they live in. Perhaps it is not the objective existence of meaning, but the search for this meaning that gives some sort of purpose...

That's a very good point, not that it's new but it's one that should be acknowledged.

G'day mate, you're the first Aussie other then me I've found so far on these forums. (:

[azelismia]

it depends on what a person defines "meaning" as. we are just countless organisms on a floaty rock procreating and dying. There's no cosmic purpose, we just are. individual meaning to life is just that, and it depends on the individual to define what it means to them. Most people I think are happy just living in the here and now doing their day to day. the ones who are worried about bigger meaning to their life are probably the ones who are battling depression. the battle is really that they don't enjoy anything anymore and are trapped in a cell of boredom and feel worthless. (thus meaningless)

[xwalka]

Well, I've always agreed with the core beliefs of nihilism. I don't think life has an objective meaning; my life simply as meaningful as I make it, and I think I know what I want from this life. I suppose nihilism is more common with agnostics, atheists, deists and pantheists.

You're thinking of existentialism, where the core belief is that Meaning and purpose in life must be instigated because they are not intrinsic. Nihilism is a bit more extreme in that it essentially denies, not just meaning, but actual existence and often advocates anarchy.

[Antares]

You're thinking of existentialism, where the core belief is that Meaning and purpose in life must be instigated because they are not intrinsic. Nihilism is a bit more extreme in that it essentially denies, not just meaning, but actual existence and often advocates anarchy.

Maybe I phrased it wrong; I actually believe that there is no value in anything; no objective value on beauty or ugliness; good or bad. Morals are objectively worthless, life is objectively meaningless. I think what I meant to say that now that I'm alive, I'm just going to make it worthwhile. I shouldn't have called it 'meaning', per se. All I know is I'm enjoying myself the best I can.

If someone were to feel that life has no meaning, they would lead a very poor life. Therefore, if at all possible, that belief should be rejected, in order to be happy.


Non-sequitur. I feel that way, yet I'm very happy, and dare I say successful at what I do. And I'm not sure if it's a belief. Without theism, then it would be actually true. We're very insignificant; there isn't an objective meaning to anything.

[Moriarty]

Hrmm. My life has meaning, but only to me and those close to me. For example, if I died tomorrow, the billions of people I have never met wouldn't bat an eye or consider it a loss.

Pan out to the solar system, and none of the rocks in the asteroid belt would care, either. Pan out further, and none of the stars or purely hypothetical intelligences in the rest of the universe would feel any pang of regret at my passing.

However, on a more personal level, I really enjoy listening to some good music. I had some great spaghetti at lunch, but the bread was stale. I also feel satisfaction at accomplishing the goals I set for myself and watching my children grow and develop.

Meaning, or value, is purely personal or centric to your circle of influence.

[xwalka]

Maybe I phrased it wrong; I actually believe that there is no value in anything; no objective value on beauty or ugliness; good or bad. Morals are objectively worthless, life is objectively meaningless. I think what I meant to say that now that I'm alive, I'm just going to make it worthwhile. I shouldn't have called it 'meaning', per se. All I know is I'm enjoying myself the best I can.

Ah. They are close enough in nature that it is easy to misrepresent oneself. Also, there are differing definitions of each that make it almost a moot point. Sometimes, they seem to be the same thing. You were quite right in your assessment of yourself. I tend to look at morals as doing what god tells you is right and ethics as doing what you feel is right (often infuenced heavily by society). You feel that morals are objectively worthless; how do you feel about ethics?

[Noehelia]

We are guided and limited by our mind and perceptions. Do animals need a meaning in order to live, does the universe need a meaning in order to exist? There are patterns but humans want to translate them in a way that they can comprehend and they are used to from their being into a society.
Personally I find it wrong to try to comprehend everything based in one universal meaning. I believe that we have to examine things by sets. Universe is the bigger set, then we have the galaxy, Earth, animals and plants, societies of humans, small groups of humans in our immediate environment, human on his own. Our life is influenced by the opposite order in importance. First in importance we are influenced by being humans on our own, then by the people surrounding us, then by society and so on. We give different meaning in its of these sets based on our perspective, on what we know for them. The more closer something is to us the more complex we see it in the way that it influences us.
So in the way that I see them, universe's meaning is existence, the meaning of living things is existence and survival, the meaning of society is existence, survival, continuity and progress, the meaning of large groups of humans are all of these but also their prevalence among other groups for their prosperity and so on until we get to my meanings which contain all the the above but also all the little things that my mind drives me to fulfill like happiness, personal growth, etc.

[Antares]

Ah. They are close enough in nature that it is easy to misrepresent oneself. Also, there are differing definitions of each that make it almost a moot point. Sometimes, they seem to be the same thing. You were quite right in your assessment of yourself. I tend to look at morals as doing what god tells you is right and ethics as doing what you feel is right (often infuenced heavily by society). You feel that morals are objectively worthless; how do you feel about ethics?

Then by your definition, I should be amoral, because I'm an atheist. I don't know if I am 'ethical', I do have my principles.

[Renegade]

The original poster, Jason, believes that the point of life is to be happy. I just finished reading Viktor Frankl's "Man's Search for Meaning" that recounts the life lessons that he learned after spending 5 years in Auschwitz and three other prison camps. He specifically states that the purpose of life isn't an ultimate quest for happiness; it's to find the meaning of your sufferings and that they may not be in vain. Rather than ask, 'what is the meaning of life?' Ask 'what does life expect of me?'

[Jakalwarrior]

Your purpose is to make as many babies as is possible, and have them survive to do the same ;)

[zhangxy]

It's simple.

If you're Christian/Jew/Muslim, then your life has a meaning.

If you're atheist/agnostic/everything else, your life has no meaning.

But don't confuse the meaning of life with the point of life. Maybe your goal is to be happy but you certainly weren't meant to be happy.

[vwrw]

When I was 15 Y.O and I was looking for the meaning of life, I read somewhere that many of old people (65 and older) have seen a dream where they were suffering of they would not be able to pass a very important exam.

I do not remember where the source of info took the info from. Moreover, I even do not care to investigate whether the info is simply a product of somebody’s fantasy or not. :stunned: :stunned:
I am happy with the meaning of life I have found for myself!

I think the meaning of life is to develop myself, my intellect, my persistence in materialization of goals, comprehension, inner strengths and other qualities.

[zhangxy]

I think the meaning of life is to develop myself, my intellect, my persistence in materialization of goals, comprehension, inner strengths and other qualities.

As explained by my earlier post, that's the point of life, not the meaning of life.

Meaning of Life answers the question: why are we here?

Point of Life answers the question: what do I do with my life when I am here?

You answered the second.

[sriv]

As an existentialist, I am compelled to agree with ShaiGar and say that we have to decide the meaning of our own lives.

Personally, my life's meaning is to pass on genetic data to my posterity. Considering that I can have fun in the process helps. Also, it is my duty to condition my heirs to make sure they keep their duty of passing on untainted DNA. I will literally tell my child, be he not worthy, to not have children.

I am guessing this is the reason why geniouses like Thomas Jefferson and self-proclaimed gods like Ramses II were pimps. Don't worry, I'm not a polygamist.

[vwrw]

Meaning of Life answers the question: why are we here?


Okay, I will try to look at this subject from your perspective.

We are here to develop ourselves and to gain new skills / to improve our faculties / to prepare ourselves to the next, more complex level of existence.





vwrw added to this post, 21 minutes and 15 seconds later...



Point of Life answers the question: what do I do with my life when I am here?



You have only two choices what you can do with your life when you are here. Either you can take and spend the measured time (hopefully not in vain) or you can refuse and cease it.

If you know any alternative choice what else you can do with your life when you are here… I would appreciate if you enlighten me what the choice is.

[Fej]

I have also been struggling a lot with these questions, I've come to the conclusion that there is no meaning and no point in life. As some have said earlier we give our own meaning to our lives. So in that case, my meaning or point of life is to Enjoy Life just like Jason. A state which I've rarely been in.

The biggest problem is that I don't know what makes me happy. I think having a girlfriend and having sex with her would bring a great deal of happiness or enjoyment to my life(although I'm not sure of this, as I've never had a girlfriend or sex and I'm 18 years old). In fact, I cannot think of anything that would be more enjoyable than that for me.

[Ool]

What about the belief that life has no meaning?

I keep having a hard time understanding such issues. I looked up the meaning of meaning in the dictionary to see what you could possibly mean. I guess this one is it:

3: significant quality; especially : implication of a hidden or special significance <a glance full of meaning> (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)

Which brings us to significance, which is defined, among other things, like this:

2 a: having or likely to have influence or effect : important <a significant piece of legislation>; also : of a noticeably or measurably large amount <a significant number of layoffs> <producing significant profits> b: probably caused by something other than mere chance <statistically significant correlation between vitamin deficiency and disease> (To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.)

So we’re back to cause and effect, aren’t we? Meaning means we have a perceptible effect on our environment and/or we were caused by something other than random chance. And since random chance is basically code for “unknown information” (see “The Black Swan”) it means “caused by something perceptible and/or comprehensible.”

I guess this is why I never even bother with these questions. Because I instantly deal with the nature of cause and effect itself. I know cause and effect cannot have a reason outside itself since you need cause and effect in order to find reasons for anything first, or differences something makes—i.e. meaningful effects.

But since you can never find a reason for cause and effect that isn’t circular you can never find a meaning for the fact that there is cause and effect.


I guess it’s the good old, “is there a point?” or “should I bother…?”

Well, here’s why you should bother: Universal cause and effect means the Universe is infinite and infinitely diverse. That’s because universal cause and effect means that every phenomenon and pattern is caused by something outside, i.e. breaking that pattern. By induction that means infinite variegation.

Non-universal cause and effect means some things just happen for no reason whatsoever. That means there are no rules to their nature and ultimately infinite variety is also possible.

But infinite variety means you’re going to be around forever, because within an infinite event space your survival is always assured, whether you like it or not.

Even while cause and effect isn’t universal—at least everything as a whole cannot have a reason since it is everything there is, meaning there is nothing else left, meaning there is nothing left that could have caused it—it at least partially applies, or otherwise we wouldn’t be having this conversation, if there weren’t causal relations between my thoughts, your perceptions, your thoughts, and the physical world conveying our ideas.

So if there’s cause and effect in our lives there are consequences in our lives. And since you’ll be forever around, the Universe, your life, and your actions will forever have consequences for you and the environment you’ve discovered the principle of causality in. They will forever make a difference to you. Hence they have meaning, at least according to the definitions above.


Is that meaningful enough to you?

I have a hard time with those concepts. I never even bother with meaning. I just live because I know that there is no alternative to life. Death doesn’t exist and never will, no matter how hungry for life or tired of life you are, no matter how much happiness or pain surrounds it…





Ool added to this post, 9 minutes and 30 seconds later...

You have only two choices what you can do with your life when you are here. Either you can take and spend the measured time (hopefully not in vain) or you can refuse and cease it.

No, you can’t. So I suggest you don’t even try. Just because you’ve seen other people vanish from your life doesn’t mean you ever will. Nothing will ever kill you, so you really ought to be bothered about what else extreme situations, having destroyed other people, might do to you if you don’t cease to be from them…

[Marcus Brutus]

So if there’s cause and effect in our lives there are consequences in our lives. And since you’ll be forever around, the Universe, your life, and your actions will forever have consequences for you and the environment you’ve discovered the principle of causality in. They will forever make a difference to you. Hence they have meaning, at least according to the definitions above.


Ok Ool, interesting post by the way. Umm, with this whole thing about an individual being around forever; what precisely do we mean by an individual? His consciousness? A materialist view of the mind would suggest that the independent existence of the consciousness is an illusion and a fallacy. So its very true that the ultimate subatomic particles that make up an individual will exist in one form or another, but they are constantly changing. Indeed all that constitutes, if we accept materialism, an individual is the rather abstract grouping of particles that are constantly fluxing, some leaving the concept of the individual and some entering as time flows. So when i say "you" i refer to the rather indefinite proposition of a flux of particles over a time period. And that you, that indefinite proposition ends with death, or decomposition of the body or perhaps even when people stop remembering you. But is the entity of an individual always around? I don't tend to think so...

[vaguely dissatisfied]

"The point of life is to be happy. If someone were to feel that life has no meaning, they would lead a very poor life."

You seem to KNOW what the point of life is in this statement. The 'point of life' and the 'meaning of life' are as individual as it gets. The point of your life is to be happy. I feel life has no meaning, but my life is not especially poor in comparison to other lives.

I know people who live to be miserable........the point of their lives is to find the bad in everything. How poor are their lives compared to mine?

[Ool]

I know people who live to be miserable........the point of their lives is to find the bad in everything. How poor are their lives compared to mine?

Maybe they’re really happy pointing out the bad. Maybe they’re like fire inspectors…

[vwrw]

Just because you’ve seen other people vanish from your life doesn’t mean you ever will. Nothing will ever kill you, …

Sure, you are right and the fact that we have seen other people vanish from our life doesn’t necessary mean we ever will.

However, on the other hand, the fact that we have seen other people vanish from our life doesn’t mean we forever will stay somewhere around either, … do you not think so?

Hence, your conclusion “Nothing will ever kill you” is only allegation.

[Ool]

Ok Ool, interesting post by the way. Umm, with this whole thing about an individual being around forever; what precisely do we mean by an individual? His consciousness? A materialist view of the mind would suggest that the independent existence of the consciousness is an illusion and a fallacy.

Even assuming (purely for the sake of the argument) that that were true, matter is always going to be around, so even if consciousness were tied to matter, the eternal existence of matter would allow for the eternal existence of consciousness.

So its very true that the ultimate subatomic particles that make up an individual will exist in one form or another, but they are constantly changing.

So do consciousnesses. The only thing that determines a consciousness’s identity is its memory of having been a consciousness from the past.

Indeed all that constitutes, if we accept materialism, an individual is the rather abstract grouping of particles that are constantly fluxing, some leaving the concept of the individual and some entering as time flows. So when i say "you" i refer to the rather indefinite proposition of a flux of particles over a time period. And that you, that indefinite proposition ends with death, or decomposition of the body or perhaps even when people stop remembering you. But is the entity of an individual always around? I don't tend to think so...

In an infinite event space patterns re-occur, if only by pure chance. That’s what people can’t seem to wrap their heads around. That’s why they have trouble grasping the possibility of evolution, for instance. They don’t see natural selection making big leaps in their lifetimes or even historical timelines, so they cannot imagine that incredible mutations are not only possible but quite common within millions or billions of years. And if they can’t even grasp the possibilities associated with astronomical timespans and distances, how could they possibly understand what infinity entails…?

[Marcus Brutus]

In an infinite event space patterns re-occur, if only by pure chance. That’s what people can’t seem to wrap their heads around. That’s why they have trouble grasping the possibility of evolution, for instance. They don’t see natural selection making big leaps in their lifetimes or even historical timelines, so they cannot imagine that incredible mutations are not only possible but quite common within millions or billions of years. And if they can’t even grasp the possibilities associated with astronomical timespans and distances, how could they possibly understand what infinity entails…?

Actually, interesting, in an infinite event space, then any individual moment is bound to be repeated - or at least a moment absolutely identical to it - an infinite amount of times... Actually maybe thats what John Lennon was on about when he sang: "I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all togeather"... or maybe thats paying him a bit to much credit.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

Maybe they’re really happy pointing out the bad. Maybe they’re like fire inspectors…
Which begs the question.........can you be happy being miserable?





vaguely dissatisfied added to this post, 2 minutes and 28 seconds later...

Consciousness exists within the anatomy of the brain. Without the brain there is no consciousness.

[True Rune]

I'm certainly no nihilist. I believe we all have intrinsic worth to ourselves and to God. On the cosmic scale, we're small lines.

[Ool]

Consciousness exists within the anatomy of the brain. Without the brain there is no consciousness.

Yeah, but sometimes you might be mistaken just what part of your being your brain is. I mean, didn't the Vikings or someone believe the mind resides in the liver or some other abdominal organ...?

Some remote-controlled robot curious about itself might look for its brain in vain, unaware that it is really within the bowels of a spaceship in orbit, way out of sight...

[Marcus Brutus]

Yeah, but sometimes you might be mistaken just what part of your being your brain is. I mean, didn't the Vikings or someone believe the mind resides in the liver or some other abdominal organ...?

Some remote-controlled robot curious about itself might look for its brain in vain, unaware that it is really within the bowels of a spaceship in orbit, way out of sight...
Interesting little story... Plato thought our cognitive functions happened in our brain as our head was a spherical shape and he thought that the sphere was the noblest shape and thus that is where our highest functions should take place. Aristotle, on the other hand, thought cognitive functions took place in the liver, as the liver is the warmest part of the body, so he thought as thinking is the most intensive thing it should generate the most heat. Now who seemed more reasonable... but who was right.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

Yeah, but sometimes you might be mistaken just what part of your being your brain is. I mean, didn't the Vikings or someone believe the mind resides in the liver or some other abdominal organ...?

Some remote-controlled robot curious about itself might look for its brain in vain, unaware that it is really within the bowels of a spaceship in orbit, way out of sight...
I think if you check with a brain surgeon they will be able to tell you the exact location and function of the brain. As for the mind.........what do you mean by 'mind'?





vaguely dissatisfied added to this post, 1 minutes and 9 seconds later...

Interesting little story... Plato thought our cognitive functions happened in our brain as our head was a spherical shape and he thought that the sphere was the noblest shape and thus that is where our highest functions should take place. Aristotle, on the other hand, thought cognitive functions took place in the liver, as the liver is the warmest part of the body, so he thought as thinking is the most intensive thing it should generate the most heat. Now who seemed more reasonable... but who was right.
Plato.

[Moriarty]

I think if you check with a brain surgeon they will be able to tell you the exact location and function of the brain. As for the mind.........what do you mean by 'mind'?


Never struggled over the duality of brain and mind? It gives me fits, personally.

My computer has a brain, but no mind. It can solve math problems alot faster than I can, but it doesn't ponder the solution or wonder if there's a more efficient way of solving them.

I have both a brain and a mind. I can also solve math problems (albeit more slowly than my computer), but I always double check my work because it's possible for me to make a mistake. To doubt oneself is the hallmark of mind.

A brain appears to be a prerequisite of a mind, and a more complex brain appears to be capable of housing a more complex mind...if the mind is in any way housed or contained within the brain.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

Never struggled over the duality of brain and mind? It gives me fits, personally.

My computer has a brain, but no mind. It can solve math problems alot faster than I can, but it doesn't ponder the solution or wonder if there's a more efficient way of solving them.

I have both a brain and a mind. I can also solve math problems (albeit more slowly than my computer), but I always double check my work because it's possible for me to make a mistake. To doubt oneself is the hallmark of mind.

A brain appears to be a prerequisite of a mind, and a more complex brain appears to be capable of housing a more complex mind...if the mind is in any way housed or contained within the brain.
A computer does not have a brain. A brain is an organ found in invertebrates and made of nervous tissue.

[Moriarty]

A brain is a processor. It keeps your heart beating.

It takes a mind to tell the difference between a brain and a mind.

Edit: What difference does being made of nervous tissue have to do with anything? Nervous tissue doesn't appear on the periodic table.

[Marcus Brutus]

A computer does not have a brain. A brain is an organ found in invertebrates and made of nervous tissue.

But could a computer be made that perfectly emulates a brain... or could biological tissue be grown that is identical to a brain?

[vaguely dissatisfied]

A brain is a processor. It keeps your heart beating.

It takes a mind to tell the difference between a brain and a mind.

Edit: What difference does being made of nervous tissue have to do with anything? Nervous tissue doesn't appear on the periodic table.
The brain of an animal is the seat of consciousness, thought, memory, and emotion, as well as, the primary center for the regulation and control of bodily activities. If you are brain dead, then you can no longer think, feel, or have consciousness.

The mind is a synonym for the brain and is used to describe consciousness that originates in the brain and is manifested in thought, perception, emotion, will, memory, and imagination, intelligence, reasoning, and applying knowledge, but the mind is, in actuality, just another way of saying the brain.





vaguely dissatisfied added to this post, 3 minutes and 11 seconds later...

But could a computer be made that perfectly emulates a brain... or could biological tissue be grown that is identical to a brain?
Why not? But that doesn't exist yet.

[Moriarty]

You're saying the same thing I already said while appearing to disagree. I agree that a functional brain is a prerequisite for a functional mind.

[Minerva]

Life has meaning, but it is what you make it. I don't think that anyone's life has been prewritten. However, the future is affected by the decisions you make now.

Life is a series of experiences and decisions. We all want to make the best decisions possible, based on the information we have at any given point in time. However, always try to be open to new information that can augment how we look at life.

I think that the greatest journey a person takes is getting to know thyself. That is why we are here. To learn. To search and find truth. We don't necessarily have to be 'happy'. This is overly simplistic. Emotions come and go. However, we should be somewhat content. But to be truly content we must should 'enjoy' where we are in the world. Where you want to be is your choice. If there is something you see about yourself that you don't necessarily like, then change it.

This is the essence of life. To learn, to grow as a person and have a positive impact on someone or something. The purpose of life is to enrich yourself and that which surrounds you!

[vaguely dissatisfied]

You're saying the same thing I already said while appearing to disagree. I agree that a functional brain is a prerequisite for a functional mind.
My mistake. I thought you were trying to say that the mind and the brain are two separate things, as opposed to, they are just two different ways of describing the same thing.

[vkut79]

My mistake. I thought you were trying to say that the mind and the brain are two separate things, as opposed to, they are just two different ways of describing the same thing.

Yeah, historically they mean different things, but today they basically describe the same thing. Brain has a more physical connotation, while mind has a more a active connotation.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

Yeah, historically they mean different things, but today they basically describe the same thing. Brain has a more physical connotation, while mind has a more a active connotation.
Yes ......."The mind is a synonym for the brain and is used to describe consciousness that originates in the brain and is manifested in thought, perception, emotion, will, memory, and imagination, intelligence, reasoning, and applying knowledge, but the mind is, in actuality, just another way of saying the brain.

[EsoteriEccentri]

Life has no meaning, nothing has meaning.
We can strive to create meaning for ourselves, but even if we manage this our meaning is just an illusion. But so long as it is a meaning to ourselves, and so long as we look no further than the effects of our being, and do not question the science and the hard logic behind it, then that meaning is bigger than any meaning we could possibly hope to achieve.

[Genuine]

Life does not have meaning unless you create one out of the blue.

Of course, I do realize what I'm really saying, and that is: I will remain in denial, from the fact that it really has no purpose... and say that meaning in life exists for me, however illogical denial may be;

because I like having hope in chaos, hope that something better will come along.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

Life has no meaning, nothing has meaning.
We can strive to create meaning for ourselves, but even if we manage this our meaning is just an illusion. But so long as it is a meaning to ourselves, and so long as we look no further than the effects of our being, and do not question the science and the hard logic behind it, then that meaning is bigger than any meaning we could possibly hope to achieve.
Yes!

Just like.....there is no color......only how our brain interprets wave lengths of light. So....meaning lies in the individual interpretation of that individual life.





vaguely dissatisfied added to this post, 2 minutes and 22 seconds later...

Life does not have meaning unless you create one out of the blue.

Of course, I do realize what I'm really saying, and that is: I will remain in denial, from the fact that it really has no purpose... and say that meaning in life exists for me, however illogical denial may be;

because I like having hope in chaos, hope that something better will come along.
Why does meaninglessness have to be a negative thing? Why can't we say there is no meaning and that's O.K. because that's just how it is?

There is no sound without ears to hear it ..........there is no meaning without a brain to create it. Why can't that be enough?

"Life does not have meaning unless you create one out of the blue."
The sky is blue because our brain interprets the wave lengths of light bouncing off the particles in the air as blue. No one would know what you meant by your statement except for the fact that we all interpret the information in the same manner. Similarly, we all find meaning in the same manner.......this can be as concrete and real as any other biological function.

[Capt57]

Natural selection shapes the meaning in our lives. You might like sex with midgets, I with hamsters, but we both like sex. We are floundering in the evolutionary predetermined ball park.

I define meaning in the small moments. In the morning I can lay in bed and piss all over myself or I can get up and piss in the toilet. It's "meaningful" for me to piss in the toilet.

The best we can do is stare into the abyss with courage; "He who despairs of the human condition is a coward, but he who has hope for it is a fool."
Albert Camus

[mkay]

Why does meaninglessness have to be a negative thing? Why can't we say there is no meaning and that's O.K. because that's just how it is?

I agree with this. My life is meaningful to me, but it means nothing in the BIG picture of life. I don't feel any longing for some "answer" to the meaning of life. That's why I don't need religion (which I would have to ignore my logic to embrace).

[Genuine]

Yes!

Just like.....there is no color......only how our brain interprets wave lengths of light. So....meaning lies in the individual interpretation of that individual life.





vaguely dissatisfied added to this post, 2 minutes and 22 seconds later...


Why does meaninglessness have to be a negative thing? Why can't we say there is no meaning and that's O.K. because that's just how it is?

There is no sound without ears to hear it ..........there is no meaning without a brain to create it. Why can't that be enough?

"Life does not have meaning unless you create one out of the blue."
The sky is blue because our brain interprets the wave lengths of light bouncing off the particles in the air as blue. No one would know what you meant by your statement except for the fact that we all interpret the information in the same manner. Similarly, we all find meaning in the same manner.......this can be as concrete and real as any other biological function.

I guess I agree with you on the fact that some ARE content with the fact that there really is no meaning, that they actually enjoy life WITHOUT meaning. Yet, isn't that meaning, the fact that life just is, and knowing that gives meaning, therefore it IS meaning?

Hmm... the reason why you are living I guess, is interpreted as meaning of life.

From your interpretations, I wish to question...
what is truly concrete? is universe concrete or is it a state of mind?
Is a state of mind concrete?

(By the way, I don't think it's possible to prove something like this as a fact...this thread, but for the sake of continuation, I would like to post :thumbsup:)

this argument seems ad infinitum...
If state of mind isn't concrete, and then we will be arguing about whether or not if you are content with meaninglessness of the world, and see if we view meaninglessness as meaning, and we try to figure out if the state of mind is a concrete fact to rely on...

It continues on...

[PRBori]

The Meaning of ones lives depends on how we view ourselves, how we react to the day-to-day issues, how we deal with others....

If you feel life has no meaning, then since that's what you feel, for you life will have no meaning.


If you feel that there is a meaning, there is a reason why you are here, then for you life will have a meaning.

Bottom line the Meaning of Life is what you make it... it is what YOU yourself think of it.

For me, LIFE HAS A MEANING. Sometimes I cannot completely comprehend certain events in my life, but when I look back they themselves had a meaning and had an impact on others which had a meaning for them.

It is a chain that can follow multiple paths, but have only ONE MEANING. That I have a REASON to exist... a GOAL to reach... a SOUL to heal.... A new discovery to make... A Path to plow... but at the end whatever the outcome, it will be based on what YOU as a person see.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

I guess I agree with you on the fact that some ARE content with the fact that there really is no meaning, that they actually enjoy life WITHOUT meaning. Yet, isn't that meaning, the fact that life just is, and knowing that gives meaning, therefore it IS meaning?

Hmm... the reason why you are living I guess, is interpreted as meaning of life.

From your interpretations, I wish to question...
what is truly concrete? is universe concrete or is it a state of mind?
Is a state of mind concrete?

(By the way, I don't think it's possible to prove something like this as a fact...this thread, but for the sake of continuation, I would like to post :thumbsup:)

this argument seems ad infinitum...
If state of mind isn't concrete, and then we will be arguing about whether or not if you are content with meaninglessness of the world, and see if we view meaninglessness as meaning, and we try to figure out if the state of mind is a concrete fact to rely on...

It continues on...
The implication from the phrase 'state of mind' is that it has more than one state. In fact, the brain can have a myriad of states. How concrete is this? The brain is a concrete organ. It's functions are concrete. But, interpretation and perspective are not and that is what we all do with the information processed through our brains.





vaguely dissatisfied added to this post, 1 minutes and 41 seconds later...

The Meaning of ones lives depends on how we view ourselves, how we react to the day-to-day issues, how we deal with others....

If you feel life has no meaning, then since that's what you feel, for you life will have no meaning.


If you feel that there is a meaning, there is a reason why you are here, then for you life will have a meaning.

Bottom line the Meaning of Life is what you make it... it is what YOU yourself think of it.

For me, LIFE HAS A MEANING. Sometimes I cannot completely comprehend certain events in my life, but when I look back they themselves had a meaning and had an impact on others which had a meaning for them.

It is a chain that can follow multiple paths, but have only ONE MEANING. That I have a REASON to exist... a GOAL to reach... a SOUL to heal.... A new discovery to make... A Path to plow... but at the end whatever the outcome, it will be based on what YOU as a person see.
Precisely.

Because 'meaning' is just another form of 'interpretation' or 'perspective'.

[Genuine]

Although there is no way of knowing,
your answer to an impossible question:
whether or not Interpretations and perspectives are concrete is something that can't be proven...

It could be concrete and it could not be concrete, and there is no way of knowing.

I don't think I agree with there is never what is truly right, since there is no way of knowing...I would rather go with there is a possibility that there IS something that is truly concrete, in fact exists.

I prefer to remain neutral at this point, because it can't be proven. :undecided:

[vaguely dissatisfied]

Although there is no way of knowing,
your answer to an impossible question:
whether or not Interpretations and perspectives are concrete is something that can't be proven...

It could be concrete and it could not be concrete, and there is no way of knowing.

I don't think I agree with there is never what is truly right, since there is no way of knowing...I would rather go with there is a possibility that there IS something that is truly concrete, in fact exists.

I prefer to remain neutral at this point, because it can't be proven. :undecided:
I'm not sure I follow you here......are you saying that nothing is concrete, like the floor I'm standing on or any of the physical universe? Or are you saying that there are fluid and fluctuating things that change constantly, but that still may be concrete?

[Genuine]

I'm not sure I follow you here......are you saying that nothing is concrete, like the floor I'm standing on or any of the physical universe? Or are you saying that there are fluid and fluctuating things that change constantly, but that still may be concrete?

I guess I'm saying nothing is concrete, including the physical universe.
There is no way to know for sure if the physical universe can be proven as concrete, since it is our perception of the world. But there is a possibility that the universe IS concrete, that it actually exists and our perceptions of the world is true...

I think I'm confusing myself here. It became so damn complex. Anyway, simplifying this paragraph:

meanings we create might actually be...(our perceptions) concrete.

[Radamisto]

The only goal of life is life itself. That's what biology teaches us. If we put it into an appropriate context, we will say: happy, productive, healthy etc. life.

[vaguely dissatisfied]

I guess I'm saying nothing is concrete, including the physical universe.
There is no way to know for sure if the physical universe can be proven as concrete, since it is our perception of the world. But there is a possibility that the universe IS concrete, that it actually exists and our perceptions of the world is true...

I think I'm confusing myself here. It became so damn complex. Anyway, simplifying this paragraph:

meanings we create might actually be...(our perceptions) concrete.
I think I see where you're coming from. My take........the universe is concrete, but our perceptions of it are not neccessarily accurate.

[ArchonAlarion]

There is no purpose to existence.

All human objectives are subjective.

However, the universe does exist objectively, meaning that the universe is real and wishing realities away won't change anything.

[tyrantofthought]

I like your ideas and their pretty closely parallel with mine. But I dont live to be happy, i live to understand. I, with someone else, purposefully got in a bad mood(without hurting the people around us, or our lives in general) for awhile to 'experience' some things to understand them better. I don't like the idea of being happy all the time because it would warp my POV, which i try to keep neutral most of the time internally. Not that its bad to be happy. ;D

[Karamazov]

Objectively speaking, life, in of itself, is devoid of any real meaning or intrinsic purpose. It started many years ago and has been progressing ever since, with no real way to tell what will come for the future. People, Nations, Movements, all come and go.

Subjectively, yes, the only meaning any individual may derive from their life is based on what meaning they inject.

(I believe there are different kinds of nihilism. One can be Nihilistic in thought but not necessarily promoting anarchy. That would be political nihilism ,which originated in Russia if I'm not mistaken.)

I like your ideas and their pretty closely parallel with mine. But I dont live to be happy, i live to understand.

That, I feel, is more rewarding in the end than something as fleeting as happiness.

[Beery Swine]

If your life has no meaning, give it one already.

[Ool]

If your life has no meaning, give it one already.

I haven’t found one in my price range yet.

But I’m still window-shopping…

[niffer]

There *is* a universal meaning? The universe is like, a blob. And you know about it because apparently you are in it, and it also happens to be giving you the potential to enjoy yourself. Because apparently the way you're wired makes you able to do that. It's just great that way, isn't it.

[Ool]

There *is* a universal meaning? The universe is like, a blob. And you know about it because apparently you are in it, and it also happens to be giving you the potential to enjoy yourself. Because apparently the way you're wired makes you able to do that. It's just great that way, isn't it.

Would be greater if I could mind-control the opposite sex…