Satisfying Business Careers for INTJs

[Mogura]

Over the past few years I have been considering a career change from IT to business. I don't think that I will last much longer in IT (or at least in my field), and business seems to present more opportunities. I am also considering returning to college to earn a 2nd bachelor's degree if need be.

Accounting, Economics, Finance, Human Resources, Management, Management Information Systems, Marketing, etc... I would like to hear from some INTJs that have satisfying careers in business. I would also like to know what it is about an INTJ's chosen field of business that they enjoy/find engaging. It's probably not a stretch to say that there are some business areas which are good for INTJs (e.g., Finance) and some business areas which are bad for INTJs (e.g., HR).

At the moment I am considering concentrating in Accounting. Accounting seems like a versatile field with a lot of opportunities, including the opportunity to start one's own business. Is this a field that INTJs would succeed or struggle with (i.e., find not challenging/intellectually stimulating/engaging) in your opinion?

Thanks...

[Tenacious B]

I am also considering returning to college to earn a 2nd bachelor's degree if need be.

If you are going to get another degree go for a master's. The combination of a bachelor's and a master's is more valuable than having two bachelors (or a double major). Move up not sideways.

[knock7]

Mogura, you might want to consider moving into IT management. If you have business skills and understand IT you can have a promising career without going back to school.

I was recently in your position. I felt like I accomplished everything I wanted to in IT so I accepted a job in IT management. I am enjoying learning the business aspects of running a company - budget, planning, etc. I also get to still think about and plan IT. I thought about going for a MBA, but I don't think I need it anymore with on the job experience.

[Mogura]

Mogura, you might want to consider moving into IT management. If you have business skills and understand IT you can have a promising career without going back to school.

I was recently in your position. I felt like I accomplished everything I wanted to in IT so I accepted a job in IT management. I am enjoying learning the business aspects of running a company - budget, planning, etc. I also get to still think about and plan IT. I thought about going for a MBA, but I don't think I need it anymore with on the job experience.

Thanks. For the record I have considered moving into IT management, and have tried on several occasions to advance along that path, but each time I ran into a brick wall (and was not able to go over, under, around, or through it).

For example, in my previous two companies IT managers were selected/promoted based on politics more than merit or demonstrated leadership ability. Most of these IT managers were nothing more than bullshit artists; they promote themselves as confident (they aren't), knowledgable in IT matters (they aren't), and experienced in management or leadership (they aren't). Truth be told, most got their positions because they were "a friend of a friend", and the consequences have been disasterous. I had one manager that fucked up so badly due to lack of experience and poor judgment he asked me to help him falsify the results so he wouldn't catch heat (I refused).

Obviously, it could be said that these two companies' IT departments are not typical of all companies out there. So I have actually started interviewing for management roles in IT departments at other companies. I must have been on a dozen interviews, but I have been getting nowhere. Basically, they say, "Thanks, but we're looking for someone with experience in management". The only roles I seem to qualify for (in the eyes of these companies) are entry-level roles. In my mid-30's I feel as if I am getting too old for entry-level careers.

It's frustrating as hell, and I say fuck it, I want to get out of IT altogether. I want a fresh start. I want a new set of skills. I want a new life, in a way...

[knock7]

I must have been on a dozen interviews, but I have been getting nowhere. Basically, they say, "Thanks, but we're looking for someone with experience in management". The only roles I seem to qualify for (in the eyes of these companies) are entry-level roles. In my mid-30's I feel as if I am getting too old for entry-level careers.

I feel for you. I was in the same position before this job. If I didn't get this job, I would have started my own consulting company and hired one or two people to have the management experience. It is probably cheaper than an MBA. If it helps, I like management. I enjoy creating efficiency and getting results. You might enjoy it, too.


It's frustrating as hell, and I say fuck it, I want to get out of IT altogether. I want a fresh start. I want a new set of skills. I want a new life, in a way...

I wish you the best of luck. If you have a bachelors, time and some money saved, I would go for a MBA at a decent school nearby. If you want any other advice, feel free to send me a message.

[Aves]

Over the past few years I have been considering a career change from IT to business. I don't think that I will last much longer in IT (or at least in my field),

Out of curiosity, why don't you think you will last much longer in IT?

[Mogura]

Out of curiosity, why don't you think you will last much longer in IT?

It's the realization that I'm not getting any younger... I will be hitting the big 4-0 in a few years, and I know that I won't be able to keep up with the younger 20-somethings that are usually recruited for my particular position. Even worse is the possibility that a future boss could be significantly younger than me. IT people really piss me off. Having to deal with Edgars ("24" tv show reference) on a daily basis is really draining. My heart is no longer in it, and it won't be long before that fact is noticed...

[Gilbo]

Mogura
I'm an accountant and I've worked in Finance, and now I work in IT

I don't think that you will necessarily find it easier in Finance, a lot of them are S's not N's and just don't get us INTJs.

I've always done well at my work and been well paid, but struggled to be promoted, so I understand exactly where you're coming from

[cBorg]

I'd suggest going for an MBA. Then you have the technical background plus the business knowledge. New employers will see you as much more qualified for the management positions because you have the education to look at the big picture.

There are a couple of paths to a managers position.
1. MBA
2. Be promoted from within - not likely to happen where you are from your description. To do this you will likely need to take another IT position at a growing company and then demonstrate some serious initiative for taking on responsibility. Jump in and solve problems that require you to work with other people to demonstrate your ability to work with others.
3. Start you own business and hire some help. Then you have the management experience to apply for higher level positions in other companies. This is most likely the fastest but has the most headaches.

good luck!

[GoodToBeMe]

Dude, I decided to start my own IT consulting company but that's a big step. I have been very successful and haven't looked back. Same thing. I was getting older and knew years ago that I would not be content staying purely on the technical side. I first transitioned to consulting for other companies, then project management, where I basically managed my own projects. Planning, design, testing, implementation. It's funny. Other teams would get assigned PMs who knew very little about the technology. The PMs came nowhere near my teams and management didn't mind. Our projects were always the most successful. There was nothing magic about it. We just always had contingency plans and tested until we were blue in the face. We could almost always predict what was going to happen based on our planning/testing. Man, did this piss people off and for a long time I just didn't understand it.

INTJ types are extremely intimidating to the less confident middle management people, at least in my experience. Plus, people tend to feel like we can see right through their bullshit, which we usually can. It took me a long time to realize how intimidating people can be by my efficiency and put off by my "perceived" arrogance. These types will never promote you unless and until you do as I did and work to develop you weaker traits. I had to learn to be a lot more conscious of my expressions and my choice of words.

As an IT consultant you can get away with a little more because you are expected to be the expert. So, you are expected to be a bit more confident. I learned to go out of my way to demonstrate to the weak mid-managers that I was there to make them look good. I seldom took credit for anything because I was not a part of their permanent staff. Just pay my invoices and I am happy. These people will be your best friend because you constantly save their asses and they know you don't want their jobs. So, their positions are not threatened.

Now, I basically manage the business with a partner who is an ESTJ. I play more the role of CEO while he is more of the COO. We have consultants in the field who do the technical work. It was just a natural progression for me. Imagine my astonishment when I learned a few months ago that I was this thing called an INTJ. I was floored. It all finally made sense. The misunderstandings, the "why do you look so angry when working" questions, "why are you so full of yourself", "why did you say that!". For a long time I thought I was just a natural born prick and decided I needed to smooth my edges. Being a consultant helped me do that.

So, here are your choices. Become a consultant where extreme confidence is expected. Then start your own consulting company after gaining some experience as a consultant. Or, dare I say it, learn to "play the game" with weak mid-managers. If you are anything like myself or many other INTJs, the only manager that will promote you to a leadership position is one who is very confident and forward thinking. Good luck.

[thod]

IT is a very ageist industry. Few people wish to employ you after 40 for various reasons. You wont fit in with the team, your brain slows down, you have seen it all and so see through the bs making you difficult to manage etc. The problem is that retraining for another high flying career is not really an option either. You face the same problems of having to go to interviews and working in a corporate structure. The best thing is probably to forget a profession and move into self employment. If you have a great idea for a business then do that. If not you could always buy a corner shop, small hotel etc. If none of these apply consider retraining to be a plumber, electrician etc.

Its a shame to have to drop to these roles after where you dont get to use your primary asset, your brain, but you have to face the fact that people wont give you a chance to restart a career after 40. Simply doing the job well and being settled and reliable is not enough. You have to have the potential to rise to chief exec and if you haven't shown that promise at 40 you never will.

[emanon]

At the moment I am considering concentrating in Accounting. Accounting seems like a versatile field with a lot of opportunities, including the opportunity to start one's own business. Is this a field that INTJs would succeed or struggle with (i.e., find not challenging/intellectually stimulating/engaging) in your opinion?

Thanks...

Yes to all your observations and questions. Accounting is a versatile mine field of opportunities. I say "mine field" because a lot of those opportunities are mind numbing and it does take some careful navigating to find an option that is satisfyingly challenging. If you go the direction of starting your own business a handful of accounting courses would be helpful. I personally like the field of tax because of the opportunities for research. Being an auditor can be intellectually stimulating, but the best auditors are also people persons. A lot of entry-level accounting is tedious bookkeeping. With an IT background, you could do well taking some accounting classes and then working on accounting software.

[rasputin4]

Thanks. For the record I have considered moving into IT management, and have tried on several occasions to advance along that path, but each time I ran into a brick wall (and was not able to go over, under, around, or through it).

For example, in my previous two companies IT managers were selected/promoted based on politics more than merit or demonstrated leadership ability. Most of these IT managers were nothing more than bullshit artists; they promote themselves as confident (they aren't), knowledgable in IT matters (they aren't), and experienced in management or leadership (they aren't). Truth be told, most got their positions because they were "a friend of a friend", and the consequences have been disasterous. I had one manager that fucked up so badly due to lack of experience and poor judgment he asked me to help him falsify the results so he wouldn't catch heat (I refused).

Obviously, it could be said that these two companies' IT departments are not typical of all companies out there. So I have actually started interviewing for management roles in IT departments at other companies. I must have been on a dozen interviews, but I have been getting nowhere. Basically, they say, "Thanks, but we're looking for someone with experience in management". The only roles I seem to qualify for (in the eyes of these companies) are entry-level roles. In my mid-30's I feel as if I am getting too old for entry-level careers.

It's frustrating as hell, and I say fuck it, I want to get out of IT altogether. I want a fresh start. I want a new set of skills. I want a new life, in a way...

Hi Mogura,

I am a recent business graduate who's still looking for a job. According to my experience the circumstances you describe in your company are not IT related. In fact, I think it is just human to rely on people-relationships. Even if there are some who claim that objective performance is the only important criteria to them, pay attention: they are the worst.

Considering your decision to restart your career in business, I can guarantee you that in the accounting department you will also have colleagues around you and your boss will have personal preferences. In addition, now you can be lucky that the people around you have probably more in common with an INTJ as those in the acc. department.

[shiggityjoe]

I was a Business student for 3 years and just this semester decided to change to Engineering. I surely can't say whether or not Business is for you, but I what I can tell you is that if you think IT - a technical industry based on skill - is full of BS, then I think you are going to have an insanely eye-opening experience in Business.

In a word, why I left major'ing in Business - BS.

Advancement requires asskissing (becoming a 'yes' man) and usually a friendship and deepening of relationships with the 'right people'. Whats most important is knowing the right people, not so much about knowing anything useful or knowledgeable. A frightening idea for an INTJ, for me anyways.

One last comment, although I have only a few months of work experience in the industry and mostly just schooling, I can also say that my dad works in Finance for about 20 years now, has an MBA, etc.. He is something like a closet INTJ as well and has the hardest time dealing with coworkers who BS clients and then get raises and promotions for being so 'good at what they do' (blatantly lying to clients about the details of funds, fees, etc. in order to get a sale.) This is not a one-time thing, it's a daily complaint.

Few places are more political than business management... my 2 cents

[Hanfgeist]

For example, in my previous two companies IT managers were selected/promoted based on politics more than merit or demonstrated leadership ability. Most of these IT managers were nothing more than bullshit artists; they promote themselves as confident (they aren't), knowledgable in IT matters (they aren't), and experienced in management or leadership (they aren't). Truth be told, most got their positions because they were "a friend of a friend", and the consequences have been disasterous. I had one manager that fucked up so badly due to lack of experience and poor judgment he asked me to help him falsify the results so he wouldn't catch heat (I refused).




Greetings, I am new to these forums but I will pitch in my 2 cents worth on the subject. These managers who indulge in backstabbing politics and fuck things up are the reason that I became an IT consultant/sub contractor, because the more they screw up, the more money I make (I work on the test and quality assurance side of things so the screw ups have to be retested and retested and retested while I am being paid full contract rate). They never learn the quality assurance/quality control lessons (I too have caught people falsifying test results)

I'm bored silly with the IT business now and am retraining as a scientist which is what I really want to do (studying for Bsc molecular science) and doing IT contracts to keep the cash coming in. I started feeling the same way as you do when I hit the big 40 but they do say that you should change your career to something totally different when you hit mid life as there are no challenges or surprises left in your old profession because you've seen it all and done it......

[boldbidder]

Mogura,

Don't be certain that the grass is necessarily greener on the other side. I'm a few years younger than you, but I'm in IT as well (software engineering lead). I went back to school a few years ago to get my MBA, but ultimately I was frightened away from pursuing anything purely in the business realm, just too much BS inherent to any of those job functions. I don't know what your personal nest egg is like, but if you can weather a 9-12 month storm of slowed income going out on your own may not be a bad idea. I'm working on building up the rainy day fund now so that in another couple years I can go out on my own because that's the only place I see any real freedom. Corporate America, regardless of the company, is full of complete and utter morons, the sad thing is the higher up the chain you go, the more moronic the people. I think running your own show is probably the best bet at a long-term solution

[Bregen]

As a hard core INTJ scientist/engineer I grew up loving my interactions with things far more than my interactions with people. This naturally led me to develop an intense set of prejudices, for example that scientific inquiry was a distinctly more honorable pursuit than managing people.

Many years ago, working as a researcher in a typically dysfunctional large American corporation I had an epiphany. It doesn't matter how good an organization's technical prowess is if its managers are incapable of wielding it to effect. I eventually concluded that management is really an engineering challenge involving people and resources ... and it is far more important to get right than any other traditional science or engineering pursuit. Good, rational, competent management is the sine qua non of every organization. Any company that looks to be violating this rule just hasn't been given enough time to fly off the rails.

That said, I think that INTJs are among the best personality types for management. I would encourage you wholeheartedly to go in that direction. As cited by others in this thread, there is usually a great deal of political nonsense facing aspiring managers in large organizations. My suggestion would be to find a small company where you can carve your own niche.

[mind_wander]

As a hard core INTJ scientist/engineer I grew up loving my interactions with things far more than my interactions with people. This naturally led me to develop an intense set of prejudices, for example that scientific inquiry was a distinctly more honorable pursuit than managing people.

Many years ago, working as a researcher in a typically dysfunctional large American corporation I had an epiphany. It doesn't matter how good an organization's technical prowess is if its managers are incapable of wielding it to effect. I eventually concluded that management is really an engineering challenge involving people and resources ... and it is far more important to get right than any other traditional science or engineering pursuit. Good, rational, competent management is the sine qua non of every organization. Any company that looks to be violating this rule just hasn't been given enough time to fly off the rails.

That said, I think that INTJs are among the best personality types for management. I would encourage you wholeheartedly to go in that direction. As cited by others in this thread, there is usually a great deal of political nonsense facing aspiring managers in large organizations. My suggestion would be to find a small company where you can carve your own niche.

It's very true, I am guessing because people are very bored at what their doing and would go into the great deal creating political nonsense in large organization. I'm seeing this and the only thing is consistent is inconsistency, which makes me wants to stay because I do like working order; not disorder and chaos. True, just me would not change anything this is why there are other types assisting in reaching the same goal.

[Thinker]

As a hard core INTJ scientist/engineer I grew up loving my interactions with things far more than my interactions with people. This naturally led me to develop an intense set of prejudices, for example that scientific inquiry was a distinctly more honorable pursuit than managing people.

Many years ago, working as a researcher in a typically dysfunctional large American corporation I had an epiphany. It doesn't matter how good an organization's technical prowess is if its managers are incapable of wielding it to effect. I eventually concluded that management is really an engineering challenge involving people and resources ... and it is far more important to get right than any other traditional science or engineering pursuit. Good, rational, competent management is the sine qua non of every organization. Any company that looks to be violating this rule just hasn't been given enough time to fly off the rails.

That said, I think that INTJs are among the best personality types for management. I would encourage you wholeheartedly to go in that direction. As cited by others in this thread, there is usually a great deal of political nonsense facing aspiring managers in large organizations. My suggestion would be to find a small company where you can carve your own niche.
This is very true.

Management - especially the management of people is an extraordinarily complex task - one that is ideally suited to INTJs. I liken putting a team of people together in the workplace is like doing a jigsaw puzzle with "freeform" pieces. Managing the team's performance and maintaining focus can be a very intellectually stimulating experience. Achieving results is a fantastic feeling.

The management of people brings together all of the INTJ's best attributes - and strengthens the S and F side to give balance.

I would also add my two cents worth about the size of an organisation.
Office politics are rampant in large organisations - my experience is that I am not very good at getting noticed, or "advertising" myself in a large organisation - head for a smaller business where it is easier to be recognised for your results and you will be more valued.

I might add that I studied and work as an accountant - I found that it has given me a very wide range of skills - but you may need to re-invent yourself after a while. The technical side can be tiring.