Are We a Dying Breed?

[Slumberjack]

Since I have recently discovered the world of INTJs, the idea that only 1% of the general population are INTJs amazes me. Does anyone think that there were more INTJs at another point in history? Was there a time that it was actually more attractive and favorable to be an INTJ?

Since INTJs tend to be less social, I would think that they tend to breed less, and therefore be out-bred by other, more extraverted personality types. I know that an INTJ is not necessarily born an INTJ, but does anyone else think that we could possibly be phased out over time because of coming generations becoming more extraverted and raising their children to be?

[ElstonGunn]

I think that it's an illusion that there used to be more of us. We are often innovative, independent-minded, and willing to do what it takes to succeed, so we tend to be over-represented in groups of historically significant people. It just seems like there were more of us because we're the ones who are worth remembering.

Whoa, that sounded pretty arrogant, didn't it?

[TheLastMohican]

I have read that personality type is not hereditary, and this certainly appears to be correct if you look at the population. ESFP parents can have INTJ offspring.

If it was heredity, I think we would have died off a long time ago.





TheLastMohican added to this post, 0 minutes and 46 seconds later...

I think that it's an illusion that there used to be more of us. We are often innovative, independent-minded, and willing to do what it takes to succeed, so we tend to be over-represented in groups of historically significant people. It just seems like there were more of us because we're the ones who are worth remembering.

Whoa, that sounded pretty arrogant, didn't it?

Just the facts, Elston. Nothing wrong with the facts. ;)

[Uytuun]

Do we need more of us?

About this non-hereditary thing...I think it's more complicated than that...I wouldn't be surprised if an INTJ with ESFJ+ESFJ parents had a more INTJ-inclined grandparent or greatgrandparent...it takes only one...and that doesn't even take into account the hypothesis that you can take individual letters from different ancestors. I can see a very interesting distinction between my father's side of the family (father INTJ, grandfather INFJ I think, grandmother ExFx) and my mother's (mother ESFx, grandmother xSFJ, grandfather ESTP). I'm an INTJ and my brother is an ESTP...

So maybe INTJness was saved by a mammoth-fighting ESTJ carrying unexpressed INTJ information or by a gorgeous ISFJ female+INTJ information that was protected and competed for by the strongest and healthiest males.

Just an idea.

[darkkodiak]

I don't think we are a dying breed at all. More like we are a stable breed and everyone else has multiplied to the point where we seem non-existent haha.

[TheLastMohican]

I don't think we are a dying breed at all. More like we are a stable breed and everyone else has multiplied to the point where we seem non-existent haha.

Do you think that we were once the majority?

[Vivid]

I've thought of this before. You should all see the movie Idiocrosy. It's a science fiction story based on an idea that intelligence is being bred out of humanity in modern society. A guy travels 500 years in the future. It's a good comedy that I imagine would appeal to an INTJ's sense of humor... and ego.

Anyhow, I don't know if this is reality or not. No one is positive about whether or not type is inborn or what determines it. We would need to know that and some other information to make an accurate prediction.

[darkkodiak]

I don't think we are a dying breed at all. More like we are a stable breed and everyone else has multiplied to the point where we seem non-existent haha.

Do you think that we were once the majority?

Naw, not really, I think all types on the most part were evenly distributed.

[hongi]

Are INTJs born and developed by their environment?

[EsoteriEccentri]

My parents are ENFP and INTP. ENFP tried and tested (although with low E and N), the INTP just as a guess. But my dad is so typically INTP, I would be extremely surprised if he were not. I know he knows his type, he has books on every subject under the sun, only I am afraid to ask.
He studied astrophysics in university and got a PhD in something to do with physics. He works with computers. He acts like an INTP. I could go on and on with the list of INTP-esq traits, only I shall get bored. ^^

So perhaps it is hereditary? As I seem to be a mix of both, despite not having lived with my Dad. I think I am probably more like my mum though, because I think that it is influenced by environment too.


Apparently INFPs are the least likely to marry, and many INFPs do not seem to want children. So I'm sure we would have died out first?

[Erika Redmark]

What if it's something you're born with, but it's not hereditary (not genetic, but congenital)…like handedness?

That said, my best guess about my parents is that my mom is ISTJ and my dad is INTP. But my younger brother is extroverted and most probably F, maybe ENFP?

[IgnoranceIsKind]

I think our INTJ traits are a result of living conditions, experiences, etc. It is through these formative factors that ultimately gives us this combination.

For example, when I was a child I was left alone to myself for most parts. I craved attention but my parents were not always there to give it to me. As a result I was extremely extroverted in school, often the 'leader' of the pack if you would. However, when I was about 16, there was an episode when I struggled with religion and the meaninglessness of life. This made me very reclusive. I hated to talk to people because I felt they had nothing to offer me as a solution to these problems. Over time, it just became habit on instincts. This relates to how the 'I' component of the INTJ is formed.

NT is quite simple. I was often left to think for and on my own. This required me to push beyond sheer conformity and challenged me to think for myself. Independence, as well as hardheadedness surfaced as a result.


So yes, I don't think your 'INTJ-ness' is hereditary at all. It is a culmination of your experiences, decisions made in choosing your lifestyles, as well as external influences. I pride myself in being ennui, simly because it gives the time and space to derive strength internally.

<And yes, ennui is a word.>

[Solaris]

So yes, I don't think your 'INTJ-ness' is hereditary at all. It is a culmination of your experiences, decisions made in choosing your lifestyles, as well as external influences. I pride myself in being ennui, simly because it gives the time and space to derive strength internally.

<And yes, ennui is a word.>

It is, but "simly" is not.

Anyway, I don't think INTJs are a dying breed any more than any other type. So much in our world follows a bell curve, and I think NT just lies at the fringes. I don't think it is inherited. I think personality is a subjective learned behavior based on trial and error. That's why we can all look back on our childhoods and see how we used to be, and what caused us to change, and what we ultimately stuck with.

[SShack]

I still believe, and I've mentioned this in other threads, that there's actually an increase in the number of NTs over historical trends. We don't see this because the Baby Boomers in charge are so heavily SF and are getting all the attention, as they have all their lives. I bet when they start retiring and get forced out of the spotlight (that's going to take a lot of work) and the nerds finally inherit the earth you will actually get a better sense of how many NTs are out there.

[ChrisnOrbit]

The world can't handle too many of you masterminds :p

[meanlittlechimp]

I heard that in Asia (from someone who grew up in Korea and went to grad school for psychology there), that 75% of Asians are introverts (opposed to 75% extrovert in the US). She said they also take mbti more seriously there and test everyone, during the school system.

The most common type was ISTJ and the most common rational was actually INTJ (I think 6%), while ENTPs were the rarest NT.

I still believe, and I've mentioned this in other threads, that there's actually an increase in the number of NTs over historical trends. We don't see this because the Baby Boomers in charge are so heavily SF and are getting all the attention, as they have all their lives. I bet when they start retiring and get forced out of the spotlight (that's going to take a lot of work) and the nerds finally inherit the earth you will actually get a better sense of how many NTs are out there.

Is this based on the Flynn effect, that IQ has been going up on average in the US?

What would be your rationale for the increase? Societal reproduction rewards for NTs, in an increasingly technological and information based economy?

[wolf]

I'm pretty sure Introversion is hereditary. Genetics could easily play a role in other areas that would favor different types, too. Still, it would be hard to deny that environmental factors shape the way we handle things.

Based on my family tree, it seems as though Introverted NTs are extremely common, so it's either nature or nurture that creates us. My parents are both Sensors, but my grandfathers were both NTs and a number of my uncles are NTs.

[ChrisnOrbit]

I'm pretty sure Introversion is hereditary. Genetics could easily play a role in other areas that would favor different types, too. Still, it would be hard to deny that environmental factors shape the way we handle things.

Based on my family tree, it seems as though Introverted NTs are extremely common, so it's either nature or nurture that creates us. My parents are both Sensors, but my grandfathers were both NTs and a number of my uncles are NTs.

Don't make that mistake; correlation is not causation. I am an NF in a family of mostly SJs. If what you were saying were true, there would be alot more idealists in my family than there are.

I think that introversion is alot more common than most people say. I don't see how extroversion is 75% of the population or if they even tested in a way to make that statistic valid.

[SShack]

I heard that in Asia (from someone who grew up in Korea and went to grad school for psychology there), that 75% of Asians are introverts (opposed to 75% extrovert in the US). She said they also take mbti more seriously there and test everyone, during the school system.

The most common type was ISTJ and the most common rational was actually INTJ (I think 6%), while ENTPs were the rarest NT.



Is this based on the Flynn effect, that IQ has been going up on average in the US?

What would be your rationale for the increase? Societal reproduction rewards for NTs, in an increasingly technological and information based economy?

That's what I would intuit (I don't have data to back this up, so I'm saying I "believe" as opposed to knowing for sure). The Gen Xers entered a work force that didn't have decent jobs for them and amid the recession under Bush I. The development of a technological and information-based economy by these Gen Xers created an entire industry that depends a lot on NTs to continue growing. I had an NT friend who was driving trucks to make ends meet in the '90s who is now a web commerce expert for IBM. I don't think it's possible that we could have developed this entire industry we have now without innovative NTs in significant numbers.

I know there's probably some identity bias with this. I recognize these folks among those of my generation. Pretty much all my friends my age are an NT of some sort. Our technology is still in a significant growth state and I can't help but think that we would not be growing so rapidly without a bunch of NTs pushing and pushing to get to the next step, and then the step after that.