Legitimacy of Prostitution

[IgnoranceIsKind]

What are your opinions on this?

While this 'business' is morally grey, it is still a service (notwithstanding the calibre of patrons) that meets the wants of its clients. And if you look at it macroeconomically, income and expenditure are both generated and injected into the economy.

But because it doesn't meet the expectations of decency by virtue of societal standards, it is scorned at and the people who work in its dealings are often labelled degenerates or worse.

If you had to take a stand and to look at it with your own perspective, what would it be?

[yondyr]

A damned lucrative profession... if only I were younger. After all an INTJ tends to have high performance ideals, a perfectionist even.... think of all the happy customers...
I did have an online friendship with a rather wealthy guy who used 'escorts' and it was great fun choosing his next appointment from a website, then getting feedback after the 'event'.

[Zilal]

I dunno, I suppose I feel like this the way I feel about abortion. I don't personally endorse it, I think we'd be better off if no one felt the need to do it, but people are going to do it so it might be best to have it out in the open. That allows some regulation for health and safety.

[thod]

I don't have a problem with it. Take the Australian model where one chain of brothels was listed on the stock exchange. You can buy a brothel and run it as a business like any other. You provide the rooms, laundry, security, the bar, the advertising etc. The client walks into the bar, talks to the girls, picks one, and they rent a room for an hour. The girl, who is a self employed agent, receives a percentage of what the brothel charges for the room. Clearly the brothel needs to cover its expenses and make a profit.

With an abundance of such places the girls can choose where to work and the brothels can choose who is allowed to work there. The girl gains a safe working environment with clients being brought in by the brothels advertisements, reputation etc. For her its look nice, lay back, get paid. Removal of the street walking system with it dangers, pimps, etc is certainly good for the girls. The girls have weekly checkups or they don't get a license to work, all sex is with condom, and they inspect the client for infection before starting. Nobody wants a drug addict girl working at their place.

The girls can be bored housewives doing 1 week a night, hard up students or hard core hookers. The pay is competitive or they wouldn't do it, nobody is getting ripped off. When you talk to them, they are just normal girls. There is nothing special about their personalities. Most see it simply as a way of making a lot of cash fast. An awful lot like the work. Its very social as they get to chat with all sorts of men which sure beats manning a checkout in a grocery store for a fifth of the pay.

By making it so legal and open you kill the criminal element and improve conditions for everyone. The main opponents are the wives who fear their menfolk attending. I looked into the pricing under the 'businesses for sale' section. It would be more fun than running a grocery store.

[IgnoranceIsKind]

I don't have a problem with it. Take the Australian model where one chain of brothels was listed on the stock exchange. You can buy a brothel and run it as a business like any other. You provide the rooms, laundry, security, the bar, the advertising etc. The client walks into the bar, talks to the girls, picks one, and they rent a room for an hour. The girl, who is a self employed agent, receives a percentage of what the brothel charges for the room. Clearly the brothel needs to cover its expenses and make a profit.

With an abundance of such places the girls can choose where to work and the brothels can choose who is allowed to work there. The girl gains a safe working environment with clients being brought in by the brothels advertisements, reputation etc. For her its look nice, lay back, get paid. Removal of the street walking system with it dangers, pimps, etc is certainly good for the girls. The girls have weekly checkups or they don't get a license to work, all sex is with condom, and they inspect the client for infection before starting. Nobody wants a drug addict girl working at their place.

The girls can be bored housewives doing 1 week a night, hard up students or hard core hookers. The pay is competitive or they wouldn't do it, nobody is getting ripped off. When you talk to them, they are just normal girls. There is nothing special about their personalities. Most see it simply as a way of making a lot of cash fast. An awful lot like the work. Its very social as they get to chat with all sorts of men which sure beats manning a checkout in a grocery store for a fifth of the pay.

By making it so legal and open you kill the criminal element and improve conditions for everyone. The main opponents are the wives who fear their menfolk attending. I looked into the pricing under the 'businesses for sale' section. It would be more fun than running a grocery store.


Thats a great point made, yet how often does the proceedings in brothels go by such business formalities? While your scenario boasts of professionalism, it would be fallacious to assume all grounds of prostituition are handled in this manner.

Women are placed behind glass windows and displayed as commodoties, a sight that is most indignifying. While most might see this as innocuous, I personally feel that it is extremely degrading for the women involved. And, though this might sound rather ridiculous, but shouldn't the women have a choice to whom they should 'bed' with too? This decision becomes nulled because they would make less money; and just because of wanting to earn more, most women in this business have to endure sweaty, clinically obese and bad-smelling men for an hour or however long it takes for them to ejaculate - this isn't women working because they enjoy it anymore; they are working for money and one big odious precept is that they have to undertake any men who chooses them.

While it is most rational to legitimize prostituition as an actual business based of the women's choice in working for 'pleasure', how often is pleasure felt from each transaction they make?

Personally, I feel there is nothing wrong with it. I just feel sorry for them.

[Phrixos]

Sex for sale is one of the oldest services in the world.

I am in full support of prostitution, it's just something people do to get a meal ticket, or drugs and stuff.

Some girls actually do it because they enjoy it. A lot of the guys who go see them have a problem getting sex for free, what if they are heaps ugly? Why should sex not be available to them.

Prostitution gets thumbs up from me.

And they dress sexy.

[ShaiGar]

You've obviously never been into a brothel. Conditions are quite as thod says. I've considered running a brothel as well. However my experiences with them mostly come from using one with a bunch of mates on a bucks night down in Brisbane back in '05. The girls are pretty cool, and don't mind at all. They're not enslaved and can leave at any point they want. Most brothels that I know of provide a shower and massage service as well that gets rid of what you're talking about.

Sex with a prostitute means a few hours of fun, enjoying a woman instead of catching it with a tissue, and no emotional ties.

[IgnoranceIsKind]

You've obviously never been into a brothel. Conditions are quite as thod says. I've considered running a brothel as well. However my experiences with them mostly come from using one with a bunch of mates on a bucks night down in Brisbane back in '05. The girls are pretty cool, and don't mind at all. They're not enslaved and can leave at any point they want. Most brothels that I know of provide a shower and massage service as well that gets rid of what you're talking about.

Sex with a prostitute means a few hours of fun, enjoying a woman instead of catching it with a tissue, and no emotional ties.

Perhaps it is different working conditions for prostitutes in various countries. From where I come from, the amenities stated by thod would be luxurious.

Never hired a prostitute, and I'm not disregarding considerations in the near future perhaps.

[ShaiGar]

Where do you come from and what experiences have you had with them? Also, what are their amenities?

[notoppings]

I have traveled to many places while in the military and seen plenty of brothels. The ones I've seen provide a great service for the soldiers who would otherwise be loosed upon the native women which has been known to cause some bad blood. All for it.

[thod]

Women are placed behind glass windows and displayed as commodities, a sight that is most indignifying. While most might see this as innocuous, I personally feel that it is extremely degrading for the women involved. And, though this might sound rather ridiculous, but shouldn't the women have a choice to whom they should 'bed' with too? This decision becomes nulled because they would make less money; and just because of wanting to earn more, most women in this business have to endure sweaty, clinically obese and bad-smelling men for an hour or however long it takes for them to ejaculate - this isn't women working because they enjoy it anymore; they are working for money and one big odious precept is that they have to undertake any men who chooses them.


The glass window thing is something I associate with Amsterdam. Its a tourist attraction. Clearly the men have to get a choice since all men prefer different attributes.

My experience is that the girls sit around chatting whilst waiting for clients. The guys start a conversation before taking her off. The girls do have a choice, they are not forced to take any client. Clearly they cant be so picky as to only choose guys with model good looks, most men are by definition average. The girls are there to make money after all and the brothel owner knows that constant rejection of men means they will to a place where the girls are more wiling. She can however reject his offer for any reason she chooses. They are used to seeing naked men and erect penises. You seek a partner that is pleasing to the eye as a marriage prospect but that is not the transaction in these places.

Many of them want you to take a quick shower before getting down to it, and they do the same which negates the 'sweaty' point. All rooms have showers, its part of what you as brothel owner are providing.

I think your idea of the ugly obese guy pumping away for an hour is optimistic. Most men ejaculate in 2-10 minutes upon entry so more time is spent talking than thrusting. There is not the foreplay you find in a normal pickup. The girls will usual not let you kiss them and many will not even let you insert your fingers into the vagina. Fingernails etc are an infection risk and that would mean time not earning waiting for the infection to clear. The use of lubricants is the order of the day and she will often be off pre lubing whilst you hand over your cash at the desk. Girls never handle cash themselves. Its actually pretty tough to make the girls come, without foreplay and them being so used to men. If she is moaning with pleasure its likely an act for the man.

If you want to see anything goes, zero regulation then you need to visit the cattle markets in places like Thailand. There you do find all the problems you fear. When its well regulated, with tax being paid, all the problems vanish and it becomes like buying any other service.

[yondyr]

Bear in mind, prostitution doesn't only mean females selling but males also exchanging sex for money. And regarding conditions of use, in most cases, the higher the price the greater the health care, and more sophistication of the practitioner. The man I was helping choose his next escort was paying $250 per hour, $400 for two hours whether he got off in the first few minutes or not, he received attention for the whole period paid for.

[IgnoranceIsKind]

This is excellent, I've learned more than I expected.

Once, out of a pressing curiosity, I ventured into the prostitutional area of my country (I come from Singapore) to have a look of what really goes on in the local red light district.

After my visit I felt rather distraught at the sight of women being passed around like reusable mugs for men to pour their shit into, yet after some thinking, I became more convinced that it was really just business.

[ShaiGar]

Geylang! I love that area of Singapore. Whenever I visit I try to stay there for that reason. It's the perfect example to me of how feminism went wrong.

[Motor Jax]

it is a business venue, after all

i would have to say i'm nuetral on it, having never been to a brothel

but i don't see anything bad with it as long as it is regulated

now, i have seen those that travel the truck stops, and i definitely wouldn't like any of them

[IgnoranceIsKind]

Geylang! I love that area of Singapore. Whenever I visit I try to stay there for that reason. It's the perfect example to me of how feminism went wrong.

You know about Geylang?! This is most surprising.

[sam988]

I think prostitutions should be legalized everywhere. As much as abortion.


People have the right to do whatever they want with their bodies.

[Quite Robert]

Legalize it, then highly regulate it (std testing) as you would with any dangerous product or service, then tax it (its the american way). This would eliminate the danger involved in prostitution to the prositiute and john, as well as eliminating pimps that are often heavily involved in the crime world.

[yondyr]

The problem of legalizing anything is one is lullled into trusting other than oneself. And as with most of those regulatory agencies they are always flawed and not subject to legislatory redress. (example, I need a building permit approved by an engineer, council, soil tester, blah, blah, but none can be sued when the house falls down years hence.. tell me they CAN be sued and I'll stop laffin next week sometime)

[ShaiGar]

You know about Geylang?! This is most surprising.
I am from Darwin, Australia. I travel to Singapore a few times a year. It's my favourite city on earth. It's also my favourite Australian city (shit, giving away my plans there)

[Aronnax]

The problem of legalizing anything is one is lullled into trusting other than oneself. And as with most of those regulatory agencies they are always flawed and not subject to legislatory redress. (example, I need a building permit approved by an engineer, council, soil tester, blah, blah, but none can be sued when the house falls down years hence.. tell me they CAN be sued and I'll stop laffin next week sometime)

If a registered engineer signs your building plans he certainly can be sued. You have to show faulty design, that's it.

[yondyr]

In the real world suing requires testimony from other experts, proof of damage/fault and lawyers...no thanks. My beef is also with the council building inspector, they have standards in a cyclone area, but one has no recourse if the house is destroyed. I may even overbuild, but I'd be violating their standards.

[PRBori]

I personally think of it two ways...

First of ALL, I think about those unfortunate women and teenagers that are forced into such by money thirst individuals whether men or women and cannot in anyway accepted. There have being many documentaries about what most women go thru in this on Discovery and History channel and that is NOT ACCEPTABLE. All you need to do is watch a few of them to know the thruth behind those brothels..

Secondly, for those who choose to do it as a career, I see them as low self-esteem women who have nothing better to do or are unable to think of the consequences that such behavior brings into humanity and their love ones. It is because of such that STDs have spread so quickly and continue to spread at the speed of thunder... and therefore I refuse to accept it.

So, that being said "PROSTITUTES" who choose to do so on their own are the LOWEST WOMEN IN EARTH and SHOULD BE PUT IN JAIL. I hear some women entering into the field to support their kids... helloooo.... they are killing themselves quicker, therefore depriving their own kids from the one that should love them and take care of them. There are other options outside of prostitution and men with the right mentality should not encourage such... for such act where you have to pay is an "ANIMAL" behavior..

However, those "PROSTITUTES" that were forced should enter a pshycological treatment... although I think such damaged is unrepairable and those hard to move on in life with something else... but is all about their inner strenght...

My questions to those men who use this service is..

How do you know that the person you're sleeping with was not forced into it?
How do you know that the women is not your daughters age (if you're a father)? and how would you feel if that was your own daughter?
How can you satisfy yourself and rob someone elses life?
How can you know if that person has an STD? There are STDs for which a condom don't do anything...

I don't accept such behavior, nor do I believe in the excuses many women say... the bottom line is that MOST of those WOMEN are FORCED to DO SO AGAINST THEIR OWN WILL...

Also, with all honesty.. HOW MANY OF YOU MEN WOULD ACCEPT THAT YOUR DAUGHTER WORKS AS A PROSTITUTE? Truthfully...

[ShaiGar]

... the bottom line is that MOST of those WOMEN are FORCED to DO SO AGAINST THEIR OWN WILL...
Not, in Australia.

[PRBori]

Not, in Australia..
1. SINICAL UNHEALTHY BEHAVIORAL VIEW which desintegrates morality and spreads diceases...

2. DEGRADATION OF WOMEN regardless of whether they choose to do it, or were forced to do it...

Either one is enough for me to say NO TO LEGALIZATION OF SUCH immoral behavior that leads only to the destruction of men...

[ShaiGar]

You'd bring mathmatics into this?

[PRBori]

Maybe you're unaware of the facts regarding Prostitution and Australia..

Here read on...To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

EDUCATE Yourself then talk... a person that can't provide facts and follows ONLY his own mindset ends in destruction... the same goes for a men that cannot "CONTROL" his animal behavior and degrades himself to such level.

[yondyr]

Oh, had I the money, I'm sure I'd enjoy hiring a male escort... oops, prostitute. Strange how that word is always applied to females by moralists in a derogatory manner....

[thod]

Maybe you're unaware of the facts regarding Prostitution and Australia..


Your article about the 300 Thai women in Oz may well be true, its a big place. I didn't see any Thai women in any of the brothels I visited and they are all sitting there for you to view. The men make the choice and not all men like the Thai look.

You simply don't have a clue about these women. They are not the feeble creatures you envisage. They have made a choice about the work. They are confident in their bodies and have no problems with men. They are chatty and laugh, they enjoy talking with the other girls, and the men that come in to see them. They see the social side as a big plus.
You are introverted and unhappy about showing your body to men. Not surprising you wouldn't like it. You are not everyone though. Some people actually like to please others.

The money is a big plus. It earns them far more than they could get in a mundane job. Once you get over the icky sticky thoughts, its cash for nothing. There is a welfare system better than the US. There is plenty of work. The girls are not forced into the work they enjoy it. Consider the case the NY Governor, $50k for spending 3 days with him. You may consider that exploitation, I consider that damn good pay.

Now you will say its all a sham for the clients. But I have spent a long time talking with these girls and you have never met any. I see straight though bullshit, they have neither the incentive nor wit to maintain an act. They will tell you about their kids, their university course, and things in their life. They are normal girls, their conversation is like any normal girls. They are not deranged, or desperate, and they don't have low self image. They have seen a way to make a lot of cash fast and are doing it. They are not stupid. I have talked with university students about there course work. This is paying for their education. They choose when to work, all the power is with them.

You really are in no position to have an opinion. You have not ever visited an Australian brothel or talked with any of the girls. Now if you wanted to talk about Thai brothels, you would have some points. There the girls are forced by abject poverty. Yet once again you are driven by your own fear of the unknown. If you were to work in one of these places you would see its not that hard. You can produce links telling me the sky is green if you want. I have experience and know what I have seen.

As for my incentive, well when I was travelling around I am not looking for a relationship when I will only be in town for a week. This provides a fun solution.

[PRBori]

As for my incentive, well when I was travelling around I am not looking for a relationship when I will only be in town for a week. This provides a fun solution.


To each person their own opinion... I don't consider selling your body a job, nor do I find it excusable for anyone to do so. That' why there is a higher rate of people dying of HIV and AIDS, getting HERPES, and so on so forth... the list can go on and on... but those who choose that life over a healthy one... more power to them...

DO NOT ask me to accept such degradation of women for I will not even if I met any of them, the excuses are unexcusable.

[the human iPod]

There's no difference between prostitution and buying all of this crap [dinner, gifts, roses] for a woman so they'll play around with you. Morals are thrown out of the equation, and don't give me any of that 'love' stuff.

I'm all for prostitution, honestly.

Also, to PRBori's comment about STD's and all of that, prostitution is NOT the reason why these things are happening. It's because of unprotected sex. o_o Brothels are often the safest places to have sex, if I'm not mistaken they make sure that you are clean before you can romp around.

[PRBori]

Male mentality... degrating on this subject..

Maybe you can't vision what it would be like to share your sperm with 100 men... and I repeat condoms do not always prevent STDs...maybe you guys should study up on STDs...

THe following STDs can be transfer easily by other methods...

- HIV or AIDS
- HPV Virus
- Herpes
- Hepatitis...

And Prostitutes are known to have HIGHER STDs... so please you all make me Sick..

EDUCATE yourselfs on STDs.. don't be fools.. I can't believe INTJs who call themselves mastermind don't educate themselves on the most common areas of life such as STDs.. and sexual behavior..

[thod]

Sure, HIV can be transfered from shared needles etc but you don't usually do that. I certainly wouldn't shag a woman with genital sores etc. Thats what the licensing scheme is there to check for. Most of shaved pussies anyhow to prevent crabs. I would rate sex with a condom in a legalized brothel far safer than non condom with a girl picked up from a bar. The condom makes a huge difference.

[OmegaPsi]

There's no difference between prostitution and buying all of this crap [dinner, gifts, roses] for a woman so they'll play around with you. Morals are thrown out of the equation, and don't give me any of that 'love' stuff.

I'm all for prostitution, honestly.
Also, to PRBori's comment about STD's and all of that, prostitution is NOT the reason why these things are happening. It's because of unprotected sex. o_o Brothels are often the safest places to have sex, if I'm not mistaken they make sure that you are clean before you can romp around.

I'm in total agreement with him on that. It makes no difference whether you pay directly for sex, or you pay for dinner and get sex for free [though ecconomically the latter is possibly better...] The end result is the same.

PRBori talks about degradation of women in the prostitution business. Are you actually talking about the degradation of women as a whole or just the woman involved, because I seem to get the vibe your talking about the first one. Guilt by Association is never a good argument. *[Exceptions obviously possible]

[JILebedev]

I think it is important to distinguish between legitimate prostitution and illegal sex-trafficking. Most people who condemn prostitution seem not to be able to do this. Also, it really isn't anyone's business what people choose to do with their bodies as long as they don't hurt anyone else without permission.

Each to his own. Simple enough dictum. And if you have a problem with that you can move to Iran.

[Brutananadilewski]

Also, with all honesty.. HOW MANY OF YOU MEN WOULD ACCEPT THAT YOUR DAUGHTER WORKS AS A PROSTITUTE? Truthfully...

I would encourage her if she wanted to do it, enjoyed it, and I could tell that she was genuinely happy. It's my dream to see my daughter happy, and if that does it for her, then I'll smile to my grave. Who am I as a father to judge anything that makes her happy?





Brutananadilewski added to this post, 3 minutes and 26 seconds later...

the bottom line is that MOST of those WOMEN are FORCED to DO SO AGAINST THEIR OWN WILL...

Holy smokes...Project much? To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 2 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

I didn't expect to see such a blindly visceral reaction on these boards. Your leaps in logic are tremendous.

[the human iPod]

PRBori, are you sure that you are an INTJ? Your reasoning completely astounds me. Legal brothels test their employees constantly to make sure that they are clean. It would be completely ridiculous if they did not, as then the male really might as well go to a random bar and try to pick up a random stranger. But the fact of the matter is that they constantly test the prostitutes at the establishment as well as the patrons. Your emotions seem to be blinding you of any rational thought. o_o

[PRBori]

PRBori, are you sure that you are an INTJ? Your reasoning completely astounds me. Legal brothels test their employees constantly to make sure that they are clean. It would be completely ridiculous if they did not, as then the male really might as well go to a random bar and try to pick up a random stranger. But the fact of the matter is that they constantly test the prostitutes at the establishment as well as the patrons. Your emotions seem to be blinding you of any rational thought. o_o

I am an INTJ but I will have to say a lot of my views on the sexual area and women are shaped by personnal events that had happen throughout my life and a few around me who share the same. Nevertheless I'm very strong on those views and I do believe everyone has the right to do as they like with their bodies but overall prostitution is degrading to society, unhealthy, and unaceptable for me in general. It shows women as being mens puppet seeling their bodies as a way to make a life.

I don't know but as a blood donor one question asked all the time is whether or not you paid for sex? and if the answer is yes your not elegible. In addition, the impact on family members and their future is not good. Honestly, how many of you would consider marrying a prostitute who at a minimum sleeps with 15 guys per daym and what is to say that she always used protection or the men are not drogatic... besides HIV can be adquired and not detected for years, sometmes up to 10 years...

I'm sorry but no matter how you guys try to make it acceptable, I personnally cannot. Something else HPV which has being link to multiple types of cancer doesn't even required intercourse, has no physical signs and can be spread from skin to skin contact...

No matter how many excuses I cannot accept the behavior

[thod]

Ha ha, 15 men a night, it would be like fucking a drainpipe, the vagina would be so callused from all that rubbing. Just looked at craiglist and London hookers are charging $300-$400, so at that rate they could make $35k a week. Such exploitation when you have a million dollars after 6 months work. The high class ones could be a millionaire in a month.

I would suggest they don't have 15 clients a night. If anything it is them that are exploiting the men. You are smart, you keep working at the grocery store on $20k a year.

[PRBori]

You are smart, you keep working at the grocery store on $20k a year.

For your information I've lived on my own since 16, had gone thru many tought times in my life but I would have never degrated myself to such level for money. And in addition I make almost 100K without a college degree...

So that said go to Hell... even if they sleep with lest than 5 men it is still degrating.

If there is a will there is a way without tarnishing the reputation and health...

[Brutananadilewski]

For your information I've lived on my own since 16, had gone thru many tought times in my life but I would have never degrated myself to such level for money. And in addition I make almost 100K without a college degree...

So that said go to Hell... even if they sleep with lest than 5 men it is still degrating.

If there is a will there is a way without tarnishing the reputation and health...

The proper spelling is degrading, not degrating.

Seriously though, stop projecting upon them. Your underlying psychological issues are really clouding your better judgment.

Who are you to call what them and what they do degrading? Who are you to elevate yourself above them? Honestly, a lot of them are much emotionally healthier, and dare I say, happier than you are, because a lot I've seen have self-esteem that could crush an elephant and they would never consider judging another person for what they're doing (both of which you lack).

[PRBori]

The proper spelling is degrading, not degrating.

Seriously though, stop projecting upon them. Your underlying psychological issues are really clouding your better judgment.

Who are you to call what them and what they do degrading? Who are you to elevate yourself above them? Honestly, a lot of them are much emotionally healthier, and dare I say, happier than you are, because a lot I've seen have self-esteem that could crush an elephant and they would never consider judging another person for what they're doing (both of which you lack).

I'm not projecting on them I'm giving my view of the act itself. Each person is free to choose whatever they want to do with their bodies but the fact is that it degrades women per se. Men will never view them the same except selected few like those of you here. Men will never consider marrying them for their own reputation or to avoid issues when raising the kids. And if there are men outthere who would actually accept them as wife then I'm sure theres a reason behind it.


As for your comment that I have psychological issues I don't think so, I'm very healthy with very clear views of what I want in life and what to do to achieve my goals in life without degrading myself. My self-esteem is very high and so is my ambitions in life. I also don't think I have elevated myself but I have made better choices and judgements than many of them, that however doesn't mean that I'm better. I'm against the behavior in an ethical and moral way whic I understand is not the same with others. In addition I consider health effects and studies done on the subject matter and those based it on facts.

Maybe there are a few exceptions on how they carry themselves but again that doesn't excuse the behavior.

[ShaiGar]

As for your comment that I have psychological issues I don't think so, I'm very healthy with very clear views of what I want in life and what to do to achieve my goals in life without degrading myself.
You're a woman who was sexually abused, who gets extremely emotional on the subject of prostitution, and replies without using rational, or reasonable logic. Yeah, you've got no psychological issues at all.


I'm against the behavior in an ethical and moral way whic I understand is not the same with others. In addition I consider health effects and studies done on the subject matter and those based it on facts.
You're against it because of ethical and moral reasons. Those are the hallmarks of an SJ. Most of your posts on this forum are things I'd expect to hear from SJ people. ISFJ? I think that since you were sexually abused you've withdrawn so much into yourself, with a developed ironic and black sense of humour that you're projecting INTJ onto yourself instead of what you really are.

Considering you've been attacking the Australian Sex Industry, what studies done on Health? It's healthier to have a GFE Sexual experience once a week with a prostitute than do what a majority of australians are doing and just sleep with a random woman from a nightclub. "I have a plastic tube in my arm so we don't need a condom" That's how STI's are spread, not through sexual intercourse in a well regulated system.

[Lilo]

If it were legalized the market price would go down and a lot more men would get laid.

[ShaiGar]

It's legalised here. It's also legalised in Singapore where locals can pay about 40 SGD. And there they have 2 week checkups, as opposed to australia where it's three month checkups.

[PRBori]

You're a woman who was sexually abused, who gets extremely emotional on the subject of prostitution, and replies without using rational, or reasonable logic. Yeah, you've got no psychological issues at all.



You're against it because of ethical and moral reasons. Those are the hallmarks of an SJ. Most of your posts on this forum are things I'd expect to hear from SJ people. ISFJ? I think that since you were sexually abused you've withdrawn so much into yourself, with a developed ironic and black sense of humour that you're projecting INTJ onto yourself instead of what you really are.

Considering you've been attacking the Australian Sex Industry, what studies done on Health? It's healthier to have a GFE Sexual experience once a week with a prostitute than do what a majority of australians are doing and just sleep with a random woman from a nightclub. "I have a plastic tube in my arm so we don't need a condom" That's how STI's are spread, not
through sexual intercourse in a well regulated system.

Whatever... this is not worth my time anymore. The fact that I was sexually molested has nothing to do with my views on certain subjects. And NO I'm not an ISFJ or SJ... I'm an INTJ but with different views on certain areas of life... I see no different on this and my views on Abortion and other areas. You guys can do as you like after all is your bodies and their bodies, I still will not agree on the legalization of such.. that's the bottom line.

[ShaiGar]

Whatever... this is not worth my time anymore.

And I predict that you'll be back in this thread again. Because for some reason you cannot stay away from the subject, even though you've got no substantiated allegations when dealing with the specific subject matter.

[yondyr]

Perhaps PRBori could be enticed back to give her opinion on male prostitutes and also her reasons for choosing the exceedingly, deliciously, metalically, cantilevered, concupiscient avatar...

[ShaiGar]

Maybe she just likes breasts... Robot Breasts.
But for someone who claims that Prostitution is degrading to women, she is certainly shooting her argument in the foot.

[MrPC]

Perhaps those who mindlessly moralise should take the time to read up on reputable brothels or at the very least download/watch the TV show Satisfaction.

[mkay]

I think it is important to distinguish between legitimate prostitution and illegal sex-trafficking. Most people who condemn prostitution seem not to be able to do this. Also, it really isn't anyone's business what people choose to do with their bodies as long as they don't hurt anyone else without permission.

Agreed. ... I think if it were legalized it'd be good to use the tax money to offer counseling, job training and such to those who want out of the business. ... Some prostitution is degrading, but there are lot of ways that people degrade themselves in perfectly legal ways, too. I don't want to apply my values to others because I don't want them applying their values to me. ... For some women and men prostitutes, sex can mean power and financial freedom.

[capricornintj]

Money can't buy you love, but it can rent you some affection.

[Sarah]

If it could be monitored then I'm all for prostitution. I'd never do it, but if a woman wants to make money that way, more power to her.

[Victoria Silver]

I tend to think that a good way to go would be to crack down HARD on human trafficking, pimping, and unregulated streetwalking, with all its attendent risks (mostly to the prostitute, who should usually be considered as the victim of unregulated sex work rather than as a criminal.) In addition to this, I would support the legalization of very carefully regulated prostitution, in the form of brothels and escorts. It would be necessary to make sure that "safe sex" practices were absolutely mandatory, and to make sure that the sex workers were protected from exploitation and abuse. They should also be paid a lot of money and given a reasonable for their choice of profession. (Of course, nobody should be considered as "freely" going into this line of work if it is the result of economic desperation or substance abuse. Some other form of providing the basic necessities of life should be provided for the former, and medical treatment for the latter.)

[Coraline]

Victoria Silver - good points. Here in New Zealand prostitution is legal, and I have no problem with the consenting adults who chose to earn their livings this way. I simply wouldn't want to be them. Paying for sex is no different, in this context, than payingfor any other service. However, despite this we still have a problem with underage prostitutes soliciting on the streets, many homelesss, supporting drug habits or connected to criminal gangs. The sort of prostitution that is really criminal, IMNSHO, is any society that forces children who are too young to realise what is happening to them, women who for various reasons (frequently rumour) are unable to earn a socially acceptable living, or women who are tricked into it because of economic vulnerablility.

[yondyr]

First, one is only as safe as the prostitutes last customer, not last test. Unless one is certain they took all precautions - but why would anyone trust a prostitute, a slut (male or female), or friend, without taking your own precautions. So none of the above are inherently safe despite some peoples faith in 'regulation'.
And please let us not lump all together in the one basket. Think clearly, there is the business of prostitution and there are illegal acts which may or may not co-exist, but damning one for another is inappropriate and fuzzy thinking.

[Sarah]

yondyr, I know you weren't really speaking to me, but I'd just like to add that regulation wouldn't just be for STDs, but for keeping psychos out, both as customers and as prostitutes. Though, now I wonder how effective that would be.

[yondyr]

No, Sarah, I try not to focus my words upon a particular person. And, who can say what the dangerous types look, sound or act like. Inviting someone to unleash their deepest desires in a one on one situation sounds fraught, but then I no longer qualify for the profession.:laugh:

[EsoteriEccentri]

Because many prostitutes are heroine addicts or are people who have been trafficked from another country, I think it should be legalized.
It would improve conditions and prostitutes would be more protected against the sorts of people who would beat them up, as often they are hired not because the person hiring them actually wants the sex, but the control instead.
I know there are "okay" brothels, but I think legalizing it would help wipe out the non-"okay" brothels.
Although, I don't think prostitution or going to a brothel should be in any way encouraged.

[ShaiGar]

Because many prostitutes are heroine addicts or are people who have been trafficked from another country, I think it should be legalized.
Qualify this statement with the nation you are referring to, and your experience with or study in prostitution.

It would improve conditions and prostitutes would be more protected against the sorts of people who would beat them up, as often they are hired not because the person hiring them actually wants the sex, but the control instead.

I know there are "okay" brothels, but I think legalizing it would help wipe out the non-"okay" brothels.
Agreed... Worked for getting rid of most crime after prohibition ended.

Although, I don't think prostitution or going to a brothel should be in any way encouraged.
Nor should it be discouraged.

[sriv]

I have no problem with it as long as it is fair.

Fair:
- Woman is not doing it against her will.
- Woman has choice of protection.
- Both sides tested for STDs.
- Woman is getting a substantial profit (enough to make a living).

[sawbwa]

2. DEGRADATION OF WOMEN regardless of whether they choose to do it, or were forced to do it...


I agree with the second statement, though the first one might not be very ...well just depends.

Even thugh I agree that porstitution is necessary and therefore leagilise it, I personally find it is disgraceful to go and buy that service.( may be that I am not sexually active)

Also, I never thought that any woman( also man) will choose that kinds of carrer if they have a choice... The reason being, it just suck!
Whatever it is, the law it necessary for the better of posititute: because many man just can.t live without sex.( except for a few INTJ male I suppose.:thumbsup)

[IgnoranceIsKind]

There are cases of women forced into prostituition, especially in China. There are families in the rural areas who are so poor that they 'sell' their children. These children will then be imported into the brothels where they are trained, and thereafter enter the business.

[azelismia]

I think that legalizing prostitution does cut down on the criminal element surrounding it. I can't speak for stats in other countries than america, but here prostitutes DO have higher rates of all std's than the general populace. it is not safer to hire one than to pick up a girl in a bar. the average girl in a bar has slept with far fewer people than a prostitute and thereof has a lower risk of std's. PR is right, condoms do not protect against many std's. Condoms also have failure rates. Prostitutes and strippers do on average have drug problems and other mental illnesses. A very good portion of them are doing it to support heroin and meth habits. that is why they ended up where they are. Selling your body does have a negative impact on self esteem and sense of well being. It is quite possible for them to appear chipper and happy to you but that's their front to make their john happy. that is what they do. "sell pleasure". it's deluding to think the girls are really and truly happy doing what they're doing.

but I do think it should be legal. That's the only way you can provide a "safer" environment for those who choose to be there for whatever reasons. there will still be people who are forced into it, Underaged girls who don't understand the implications and drug addicts but at least regulation will be in place for those some. If someone is abused in the process they'd be able to seek legal restitution w/o fear.

[ShaiGar]

Then that seems to be a problem with your nation and society, rather than the business.
Because Australia, Netherlands, Singapore... Doesn't seem to have that problem.

[MrPC]

Also, I never thought that any woman( also man) will choose that kinds of carrer if they have a choice... The reason being, it just suck!

You'd make excellent money, and the hours are good in that you'd have time off during the day when all the shops and services are open.

[ShaiGar]

Plus, you'd have fun.

[azelismia]

Plus, you'd have fun.

I don't think so. being forced to have sex with random people isn't fun for most. there are some types who'd probably like it. but they are in the minority and probably have deeper issues.

[ShaiGar]

Did I say anything about being forced? If you're a prostitute in my country, or in other civilised nations, you are a prostitute of your own will.

[azelismia]

Did I say anything about being forced? If you're a prostitute in my country, or in other civilised nations, you are a prostitute of your own will.

I doubt that's always true. things aren't always as they appear.

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[MrPC]

It was clear from my post that I was talking about career prostitutes (making big money). Such people are NOT forced.

You, however, are an idiot.

[ShaiGar]

I doubt that's always true.
I doubt the moon landing took place... That make me right?
Things aren't always as they appear.
Very true, Things are not always as they appear. However, in Australia, unlike America (which is uncivilised), legal prostitution has helped to wipe out the illegal prostitution rings, and there is an easy way out for anyone who doesn't want to be there. Forced prostitution rings make no money because they're illegal and people can go to legal ones thus reducing the possibility of crime on their behalf...

[azelismia]

I doubt the moon landing took place... That make me right?.

if it makes you feel better to think that way, keep thinking that way but there are many things that force women into situations like that. they don't generally do it because they like it. .



Very true, Things are not always as they appear. However, in Australia, unlike America (which is uncivilised), legal prostitution has helped to wipe out the illegal prostitution rings, and there is an easy way out for anyone who doesn't want to be there. Forced prostitution rings make no money because they're illegal and people can go to legal ones thus reducing the possibility of crime on their behalf...

that isn't what the links I provided say. One of them said that for the 85 legalised brothels there are 400 that aren't. they also encourage sex trafficking from other countries.

[ShaiGar]

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Obviously biased, does not cite valid references.
The Vancouver Rape Relief & Women's Shelter which sponsors that website is very discriminatory. Please choose valid references.
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Sheila doesn't give any valid reasons for making prostitution illegal. I read through that essay, and it's bunk.
We are talking about CIVILISED nations.
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South East Asia...
South East Asia is a hotbed of crime regardless of the legality of prostitution. Make it illegal, which in many cases it already is, and you're just putting more women who try to make a living into a position where they need the pimps.
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The International Prostitutes Collective, of which the English Collective of Prostitutes (ECP) and the US PROStitutes Collective (US PROS) are a part, is a network of women, Black and white, of different nationalities and backgrounds, working at various levels of the sex industry. We campaign for the abolition of the prostitution laws and for legal, civil and economic rights for sex workers, including the right to protection from violence, to health care and to form or join trades unions.

Uhmmm, yeah... They're backing MY argument.





ShaiGar added to this post, 1 minutes and 57 seconds later...

that isn't what the links I provided say. One of them said that for the 85 legalised brothels there are 400 that aren't. they also encourage sex trafficking from other countries.
I posted before you edited those links in.

It was 91, to 400.
This is because of the laws and zoning regulations, not much else.

[azelismia]

Uhmmm, yeah...


If you recall. I do think legalisation is for the better than not. I also think it's still a problem. it's not the bed of roses you like to make it out. that's all. Those links all talk about the various problems that plague sex workers and that industry. Most women who end up doing what they're doing do it out of desperation. not because it's fun. they DO have higher rates of disease and abuse.

[antisocial one]

This is intresting thread .

Entire problem is actually in demand.
Destroy demand and problem is solved.

I think that it would be smart to legalize entire thing on global scale. But only on few years.Just to wipe out ilegal one and to clear things to some degree.
This is not final solution but it could help solving this ancient problem.
This could help because if prostitution is legal people dont have joy of braking law.
And probably many do it because they feel dirty because of this.

So I recomend that this thread starts talking how to destroy demand.

[MrPC]

Why would any sane person want to ruin someone else's career when it's really no business of theirs?

(Unless of course we're talking about lawyers)

[antisocial one]

Why would any sane person want to ruin someone else's career when it's really no business of theirs?

(Unless of course we're talking about lawyers)

If you mean this as reply on my post.

I was thinking that ilegal one becomes legal one so you take out both of them whit one shot. Also you cant say that it is some mighty career.

Something tells me you never lived in banana state.

Like state where you can get education for job that does NOT EXIST and you dont know that.
Or state wich is reforming education for the last 40 years creating fuc** up generations for decades.

I am saying this because those fuc** up generatons engage in prostitution because they have on choice.
I am not in the "business" just to be clear.

[MrPC]

If you mean this as reply on my post.
I was thinking that ilegal one becomes legal one so you take out both of them whit one shot.

Why take them out? Denying people their right to choose for themselves? Do you really want to live in a nanny state?

What if I told you that petrol is now rationed and you have to walk everywhere you go, or ride a bike, after the first ten litres each week?

Also you cant say that it is some mighty career.

That's not for you to decide. You have no way of knowing the motivations of others. For some people working 1-2 nights a week earns them enough money to get by, the sort of money they could have to work five full days to earn. For sole parents, students, and others whose time is particularly valuable, that gives them an especially attractive option.

Something tells me you never lived in banana state.

I've lived in New South Wales, Victoria and the Northern Territory. The Banana benders live next door in Queensland.

Like state where you can get education for job that does NOT EXIST and you dont know that.
Or state wich is reforming education for the last 40 years creating fuc** up generations for decades.

I am saying this because those fuc** up generatons engage in prostitution because they have on choice.
I am not in the "business" just to be clear.

Your own lack of employment options is regrettable, but it can not be used to justify your desire to arbitrarily cut off employment options for other people.

For prostitution to succeed you need a functioning economy giving male (and the occasional female) clientele the disposable cash to spend on hiring the prostitute.

If you start closing down employment opportunities, there is less money in the economy overall, which reduces options for everybody, yourself included. If you're the guy waiting tables at Cracker Barrel (I'm assuming here that you're a yank), the prostitutes probably need to get a quick and half decent feed from time to time. If they're unemployed they might prefer the cheaper Burger King option though, which means fewer jobs per meal served, thus fewer jobs overall.

But, back on what you said, not everyone can be a prostitute, just like not everyone can be a systems analyst or a white collar clerk or a doctor. There will always be a need for a variety of professions to keep an economy ticking over. Further, it's not like prostitution only includes your generation and only started up because your generation got a shoddy education. They don't call it the world's oldest profession for nothing.

If I had the body, and wasn't otherwise employed in a job that I think has some decent prospects, I wouldn't mind being a male prostitute. The gay clientele is fairly tame, the money is excellent, the public health services here are fairly good, and it's nobody else's business.

[antisocial one]

First I dont whant job I am totaly in my education for now and seems like many problems are avoiding me. Actually I am from Europe. Now when I take a look I sounded angry but I was not.

Second thing I am playing devils advocate here, because if we manage to take entire thing from the streets then why not.
Some people here have problem whit this so I give them one idea.

But we must be carefull because if entire thing becomes too lucrative no body will do "real" work and economy can crash because of it.
Also this is in human nature so destroying it is impossible (very strong police state and genocide are exceptions).

[yondyr]

This banana bender agrees with MrPC...

[MrPC]

But we must be carefull because if entire thing becomes too lucrative no body will do "real" work and economy can crash because of it.

The economy crashes because the supply of money gets constrained. If anything, throwing people out of work is more likely to cause a crash than prevent it.

Physical supply shortages cause small ripples only, unless we're talking about shortages of everything. There's no chance that enough people could earn a living as prostitutes to even begin to cause shortages of the scale required.

As for constraining the money supply, so long as the banks keep mysteriously creating more and more credit (money) every year, the economy will tick over. Right now in some parts of the world it's the constraints on credit creation (now that financial institutions are actually *gasp* paying attention to who they lend to) that is causing the recession.

[Aronnax]

So I recomend that this thread starts talking how to destroy demand.

Lobotomies for everyone!

[ShaiGar]

Castration for everyone.

[Serket]

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[Rammaukinn]

This is more of a specific case thing, and sorry if it was covered earlier, I had to type while I still remembered this... not forcing you to read :)

I live in Japan, so of course the whole sex industry is kind of weird over here, but more importantly I recently talked to a Thai girl that used to be a prostitute in Thailand...

She fully endorses the legalization of prostitution. Prostitution in Thailand is still illegal, so everyone working in it has to periodically bribe the government officials or local police. No one really cares that it is commonly practiced, it is just kept illegal by the people in charge because it keeps giving them money, but they harp on the public about the importance of morals and stuff (she was talking about local level of some smaller city she was in, I don't know anything about Thailand's main government). But the worst part about this is that they don't get any benifits at all from the government. They aren't allowed any sort of compensation or anything, because it is still technically illegal. Also, as it is illegal, it isn't regulated to make sure that people are kept safe, which is why the child sex industry is booming over there. She said another huge problem is guys just not paying. Since there are no contracts or information taken down, the only thing preventing guys from paying are a few bouncers, but sometimes the guys just pull out guns or knives and walk out, or just make a run for it. The abuse of the sex workers is really high too, all because it is so unregulated. They just can't go to anyone for help. And if they do, they have to pay for it, which puts them in more debt, and often they end up becoming sex slaves to groups of men that are hired to protect them. Oh, and the standard rampant STD's is a problem too.

So after all of this, I am offering Thailand as a case scenario in which sex work has become so popular, that the dangers of its illegality far outweigh the dangers of its legality (if anyone had good ones earlier :) ).

I recognize that the argument could be made that it is the corrupt governments fault for not cracking down correctly, and this is true, but we arent trying to find the fault, only the solution. It is too big of an industry with so much of the population involved in it now to feasibly crack down on it.

[Antares]

I'm raised by parents and in a culture that strongly condemns prostitution, and seriously I can't see the good of it except sexual pleasure (but that's the whole point, I suppose). Personal prejudices apart, I, being honest to myself, cannot see anything logically or objectively wrong with legalized and safe prostitution. Therefore I endorse this business. To my objective mind, it's just another branch of commerce.

Now before some moralist condemns me of being a teenage boy with raging hormones spewing crap about stuff they don't understand, let me clarify: I'm a 15 year old girl. Now maybe we can cut some of the "of course you'd say that! You're a ---" arguments.

[Saerzi]

I don't see how a reasoning, logical person could condemn prostitution in total.

The current social climate that handles the subject with fear and loathing is obvious hypocrisy, being that we're the very cause of its existence.

The question I usually pose to myself is, if we were inclined to seriously prevent or stop the act from taking place, is there anything that could be done? Can the aspect of our human nature that leads people to seek the service of a prostitute be changed or altered?

I doubt it, rending the whole discussion moot, which more or less leaves the discussion as a simple matter of opinion.

I'll take two.

[yondyr]

Admirable Antares.

[OneBadMother]

I think prostitution should be legalized and treated with the same benefits as any profession ideally should. That is to say, the benefit of being able to take effective legal action if harassed, the ability to take vacation days with pay, maternity leave, adequate pay, and health insurance. The harassment and health insurance parts are especially important, since there is likely to be discrimination from certain parties and a risk, however small, of pregnancy or STDs. Also, whatever the job is and the limits set on it should be fully laid out and made clear ahead of time. I guess that it could be on either a contracting, part-time, or full-time basis, depending on the job. At any rate, with the above benefits I think most of the problems traditionally associated with prostitution would be eliminated.

[futureperfect5]

What are your opinions on this?

While this 'business' is morally grey, it is still a service (notwithstanding the calibre of patrons) that meets the wants of its clients. And if you look at it macroeconomically, income and expenditure are both generated and injected into the economy.

But because it doesn't meet the expectations of decency by virtue of societal standards, it is scorned at and the people who work in its dealings are often labelled degenerates or worse.

If you had to take a stand and to look at it with your own perspective, what would it be?
Prostitution has many aspects ...

Sex for hire or for money is so widespread,
I cannot say that it is exactly immoral.

In fact, many marriages involve prostitution,
male or female -- for money.
The people are de facto "strangers"
even if they establish a **legal** relationship.

[ShaiGar]

So in that sense, prostitution is temporary marriage. Hah! I like it.

Woah... That could solve a lot of problems with prostitution... rewrite the marriage laws so that you can have a marriage with someone you just met, where one or many partners gets so much money as agreed upon in the marriage contract. In order for the marriage to be legalised it must be consumpted... is that the right word? for an agreed upon amount of time.

[Serket]

In many Islamic countries you can get a sigeh, a temporary marriage, basically a legalised form of prostitution. The man pays a dowry like payment for the marriages and specifys the length of the contract. If he wants to renew it costs him again.

[Ytterbium]

Where I'm from being a prostitute isn't illegal although using and paying for these "services" are. So in that sense prostitution is illegal.

I may be boring and moral but I don't think prostitution shall be legal. For me personally it would feel strange to pay someone to have sex with me just for an evening. Without any love or affection.

[ShaiGar]

In many Islamic countries you can get a sigeh, a temporary marriage, basically a legalised form of prostitution. The man pays a dowry like payment for the marriages and specifys the length of the contract. If he wants to renew it costs him again.
I'm so totally moving to Iran.

[Radamisto]

Let me quote an excellent book by prof. Walter Block.


Defending the Undefendable
THE PROSTITUTE

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[ShaiGar]

... I'll PM a cleaner version of that for you to post.





ShaiGar added to this post, 184 minutes and 10 seconds later...

Subject to ceaseless harassment by blue laws, church groups, chambers of commerce, etc., prostitutes nevertheless continue to trade with the public. The value of their service is proven by the fact that people continue to seek them out, despite legal and civic opposition. A prostitute may be defined as one who engages in the voluntary trade of sexual services for a fee. The essential part of the definition, however, is “voluntary trade.” A magazine cover by Norman Rockwell some time ago illustrated the essence of prostitution, if not the specifics. It portrayed a milkman and a pieman standing near their trucks, each busily eating a pie and drinking milk. Both obviously pleased with their “voluntary trade.” Those lacking sufficient imagination will see no connection between the prostitute entertaining her customer and the aforementioned milk and pie episode. But in both cases, two people have come together on a voluntary basis, in an attempt to mutually gain satisfaction. In neither case is force or fraud applied. Of course, the customer of the prostitute may later decide that the services he received were not worth the money he paid. The prostitute may feel that the money she was paid did not fully compensate her for the services she provided. Similar dissatisfactions could also occur in the milk-pie trade. The milk could have been sour or the pie underbaked. But both regrets would be after the fact and would not alter the description of these trades as “voluntary.” If all the participants were not willing, the trades would not have taken place. There are those, women’s liberationists among them, who lament the plight of the poor downtrodden prostitute, and who think of her life as demeaning and exploitative. But the prostitute does not look upon the sale of sex as demeaning. After considering the good features (short hours, high remuneration), with the drawbacks (harassment by the police, enforced commissions to her pimp, uninspiring working conditions), the prostitute obviously prefers her work, otherwise she would not continue it.

There are of course many negative aspects experienced by prostitutes which belie the “happy hooker” image. There are prostitutes who are drug addicts, prostitutes who are beaten by pimps, and prostitutes who are held in brothels against their will. But these sordid aspects have little to do with the intrinsic career of prostitution. There are nurses and doctors who are kidnapped and forced to perform for fugitives from justice; there are carpenters who are drug addicts; there are bookkeepers who are beaten by muggers. We would hardly conclude that any of these professions or vocations are suspect, demeaning, or exploitative. The life of the prostitute is as good or as bad as she wishes it to be. She enters it voluntarily, qua prostitute, and is free to leave at any time. Why then the harassment and prohibitions against prostitution? The momentum does not come from the customer; he is a willing participant. If the customer decides that patronization of a prostitute is not to his advantage, he can stop. Nor does the move toward prohibition of prostitution come from the prostitutes themselves. They have volunteered for their tasks, and can almost always quit if they change their minds about the relative benefits. The impetus for the prohibition of prostitution is initiated by “third parties” not directly involved in the trades. Their reasons vary from group to group, from area to area, and from year to year. What they have in common is the fact that they are outside parties. They have neither stake nor standing in the matter, and should be ignored. To allow them to decide this matter is as absurd as allowing an outsider to decide about the trade between the milkman and the pieman. Why then are the two cases treated differently? Imagine a league called the “decent eaters,” organized to espouse the doctrine that eating pie together with milk is evil. Even if it could be demonstrated that the league against pie-and-milk and the league against prostitution had identical intellectual merit—namely, none—the reaction to the two would still be different.

The attempt to prohibit pie and milk would evoke only laughter but there would be a more tolerant attitude toward the attempt to prohibit prostitution. There is something in operation which staunchly resists an intellectual penetration of the prostitution question. Why has prostitution not been legalized? Though the arguments against this legalization are without merit, they have never been clearly assailed by the intellectual community as specious. The difference between sexual trades such as the ones that take place in prostitution, and other trades, such as the pie-milk trade, seems to be based on, or at least connected to, the shame we feel, or are made to feel, at the prospect of having to “buy sex.” One is hardly “really a man,” nor in any way to be confused with an attractive woman, if one pays for sex. The following well-known joke illustrates this point. A good looking man asks an attractive and “virtuous” woman if she will go to bed with him for $100,000.00. She is appalled by the offer. However, after some reflection she concludes that as evil as prostitution is, she could use the proceeds of the offer for charity and good works. The man seems charming, not at all dangerous or repugnant. She shyly says, “Yes.” The man then asks: “How about for $20.00?” The woman indignantly replies, “How dare you, what kind of woman do you think I am!” as she slaps his face. “Well we’ve already established what kind of woman you are. Now, we’re trying to establish the price,” he replies. The degree to which the man’s reply strikes a telling blow against the woman is a small measure of the scorn heaped upon individuals involved in this kind of endeavor. There are two approaches which might combat the attitude that paying for sex is degrading. There is the frontal attack which simply denies that it is a wrong to pay for sex. This, however, would hardly convince those who think of prostitution as an evil. The other possibility would be to show that we are always paying for sex—all of us, all the time—and, therefore, we sh ould not cavil at the arrangements between a professional prostitute and a customer.

In what sense can it be said that we all engage in trade and payments when we engage in sexual activity? At the very least, we have to offer something to our prospective partners before they will consent to have sex with us. With explicit prostitution, the offer is in terms of cash. In other cases, the trade is not so obvious. Many dating patterns clearly conform to the prostitutional model. The male is expected to pay for the movies, dinners, flowers, etc., and the female is expected to reciprocate with sexual services. The marriages in which the husband provides the financial elements, and the wife the sexual and housekeeping functions, also conforms clearly enough to the model. In fact, all voluntary human relationships, from love relationships to intellectual relationships, are trades. In the case of romantic love and marriage, the trade is in terms of affection, consideration, kindness, etc. The trade may be a happy one, and the partners may find joy in the giving. But it is still a trade. It is clear th at unless affection, kindness, etc., or something is given, it will not be reciprocated. In the same way, if two “nonmercenary” poets did not “get anything” from each other, their relationship too would terminate. If there are trades, there are also payments. Where there are payments for relationships which include sexual congress such as marriage and in some dating patterns—there is prostitution—according to the definition of that term. Several social commentators have correctly likened marriage to prostitution. But all relationships where trade takes place, those which include sex as well as those which do not, are a form of prostitution. Instead of condemning all such relationships because of their similarity to prostitution, prostitution should be viewed as just one kind of interaction in which all human beings participate. Objections should not be raised to any of them—not to marriage, not to friendship, not to prostitution.

[yondyr]

Were I on the other side of this discussion, I would have a hard time marshalling a rebuttal after those two very logical INTJ type posts - but I suppose were I an emotional or religious zealot I'd try....

[Serket]

I just wanted to add this article I read today to this discussion:

Mum tells: Why I became a sex worker
Article from: The Courier Mail

AM I a sex worker or a scarlet woman? I guess it depends on what side of the moral coin toss you get - I'm not attempting to change someone's moral perspectives but, rather, dispel the myths that have been perpetuated by some in the media of late.

I am a mother, a student at university and, yes, a sex worker. I never use the word prostitute, as I believe it is an archaic term with negative connotations which I do not believe to be relevant to myself or other workers I know.

I first gravitated towards the sex industry as I wanted to provide a better lifestyle for my children.

Previously I was working full time in an office, picking the children up at 5.30pm from child care and spending almost a third of my wage on their care.

I contemplated this new industry, as I have always been open with my sexuality and found it intriguing.

I could get paid for doing something I enjoyed a lot?

I believe a common thread, particularly among feminists, is that women are being exploited. I argue that some people find it confronting for a women to admit she is happy to get paid for sex, and that she enjoys it.

Others argue that prostitution is a form of violence against women, but as someone who is involved in this industry, I disagree. I am a strong, intelligent, educated woman and I have choices.

I advertise my time on an over-18 website, and exchange services for money. The type of service provided is discussed beforehand, and if I am not comfortable with a request I will decline to see someone.

I have a discreet up-market unit in the city which I do not reside in, and I do not bring any aspect of my work to my own home.

Not only would I not work from home, but legally you cannot work from a house where children reside. I'm sure this does occur in some instances, but is not a reflection on being a sex worker, but rather a bad parent.

Safe sex is the only type provided as I have too much respect for myself to put myself at any risk. I get health examinations from a sexual health nurse regularly and have never had a sexually transmitted disease.

Studies, some of which can be accessed on the Prostitution Licensing Authority website, show that sex workers have a lower incidence of STDs than women in the general population as they attend sexual health courses and are proactive in their sexual health. Women who work in licensed brothels are also required to provide a sexual health certificate before starting a shift.

I have met many wonderful human beings along the way, and have felt honoured to be privy to many aspects of their lives.

I have now worked in this industry for three years and have not once been the victim of any form of violence. Oh, and I don't take drugs.

My clients are not sadists or perverts or deviants.

Surprising as it may be to some, they are doctors, teachers, lawyers, soldiers, stockbrokers and even journalists, to name but a few of the professions that use my services.

Are all these people morally bankrupt, and am I?

I cannot see the ill effects of two adults agreeing to spend some time together on what is a mutually beneficial basis.

I pay my taxes. I would stop to help an old woman across the road. I'm a good person. If you don't agree with it, just don't use the service I provide, but please don't judge me.

You'd be surprised if you saw me on the street and you knew what I did. I am not your typical Americanised stereotype of a sex worker. I could be your next-door neighbour, and you wouldn't even know it.

Melissa is a Brisbane sex worker, mother and university student.

[jesse]

Prostitution has probably existed as long as sexual intercourse itself has. I do not find anything wrong with prostitution when both (or all) parties consent and have reached a satisfactory agreement on payment and so forth.

I think the hostility toward prostitution is due to the profuse existance of Abrahamic values in many societies and due to the persistant depiction of prostitution always involving human trafficking and slavery. Perscuting prostitution and making it illegal essentially allows for the underground trade to prosper because there are less intermediaries to handle. On the other hand I think it is safe to say there are many sex workers who enjoy and are proud of their trade.

Besides, there are plenty of worse things than giving someone an orgasm for a fee.

[Indy]

As a resident in the Netherlands, I feel obliged to say something about the situation here, specifically Amsterdam, as it is often hailed as the epitomy of 'legal' prostitution.
Eventhough it is, or perhaps was, a strong Calvenistic country, pragmatism has ruled here. You dont make laws based on an ideal world you envision and matches your own morals, but you choose what works in practice. Hence, Amsterdam being a harbor-city, prostitution has been legal for many decades.

Now, is it the perfect world of safe, responsible sex-workers making their ends meet in their chosen occupation? Often, perhaps, but not always. Many of the prostitutes working in the red-light district are foreign, mostly East-European, and many of those were lured by sex-traffickers under false pretences. Most have resigned in their fate and try to make the best of it, make money, and return home with cash.

Currently the city-counsil is trying to close many brothels and clean up the area, since many of them are associated with organized crime.

For me personally, I am a moral relativist and an economist, so I sure do not have a problem with it in in essence, so naturally I think it should be legalized and then heavily regulated.

However, I do think it is unfortunate if a woman chooses to engage in such a trade. Promiscuity isn't a very good characteristic, especially for women.

Biologically speaking, women are 'programmed' to be very selective in choosing a male partner, in order to make genetically strong babies. Only the top (strongest, richest, healthiest,...) male that is possible should be selected for this.

Being a prostitute means being completely unselective in your partners. It is therefore 'genetically' not a very good thing, hence our moral condemnation.
The use of contraceptives have made this all less important, since the link between having a lot of sex, with really a lot of people, is broken, since it doesnt necessarily lead to reproduction.

Men have a different biological orientation. For them it is also a sort of 'winner-takes-all', at least having as many men compete with as many men, leads to more competition for women, so 'better' babies would be born, genetically speaking.
Men are also somewhat necessary in raising a family, so fucking around isnt looked on favourable. Children grow up best, even in genetic terms, in a strong family, so we favor fidelity in marriage for men as well.

These biological reasons go along way to explain a lot of human behavior, from dating, cheating, polygamy, etc.

But how valuable they are in our society, I still dont really comprehend. Is realising our moral instinct that finds this behavior dispicable, enough to overcome my own dislike for my (future) daughters ever becoming prostitutes? I dont know...

[tichila]

Personally, I don't feel good with prostitution becuase it makes those girls sexual object. But I'm still ok with the legalization. It's theirs right to do anyting with their bodies and money. Eventhough it's illegal, we still have this in our society. Better for a government to gain from this.

[yondyr]

Perhaps this subject could be continued in a non gender related manner, prostitution concerns both males and females, and injecting an anti-female prostitution bias is not evenhanded.

[Monte314]

As has been pointed out on this thread, real-world prostitution has some negative physical, psychological, and social consequences. Some people claim to be "lucky", and avoid these. In general, while these can sometimes be mitigated, they cannot be eliminated.

But you can say the same thing about any *vice* (e.g., smoking cigarettes), yet fornication-for-hire can support an extensive INTJ thread, while nicotine addiction cannot. WE ALL KNOW THAT IT IS IN A DIFFERENT CATEGORY.

So, here is what the question comes down to for me: if being or hiring a prostitute is morally wrong, there is no medical or social mitigation strategy, and the issue is settled. This makes it a philosophical question rather than an issue related to "Work and Education".

[Dreamer]

I see no problem with it. Two consenting individials entering a mutually-beneficial contract.

I've heard prostitution does tend to devalue real estate of the neighbourhoods they are in. For this reason, I think it's a good idea if some kind of zoning laws would apply to bordellos, and such.

In many Islamic countries you can get a sigeh, a temporary marriage, basically a legalised form of prostitution. The man pays a dowry like payment for the marriages and specifys the length of the contract. If he wants to renew it costs him again.They claim there is moral depravity in America

[SoupNazi]

That' why there is a higher rate of people dying of HIV and AIDS, getting HERPES, and so on so forth...


I know I came in a bit late, but...

Even if you assume this to be necessarily true, people undertake dangerous jobs all over the economy.. and in free markets are compensated for it at the market rate. For example, Miners are paid wages well beyond that typical of their skill level. The surplus is in exchange for their acceptance of the risks associated with their profession. This is completely legitimate.

I believe that one of the key functions of a legal system in a free society, AND a free economy, should be to preserve the principle that anyone has the right to do anything they want, PROVIDED their actions don't impede the rights of any other person/entity..

Miners have a right to trade with their acceptance of risks, septic tank cleaners have a right to trade with their willingness to smell like shit, prostitutes have a right to trade with their willingness to pleasure ugly and appealing men alike, and consumers have a right to pay market rates for these services.. IF THAT IS THEIR CHOICE!

Making prostitution illegal seems to quash a lot of rights.. without actually protecting any.

Maybe someone could argue that society as a whole has a right to feel that the people within it are conducting themselves in line with it’s values.. but even if you believe that this right exists (I don’t), and even if you believe that the values of society are against prostitution (I don’t).. surely you should still accept that maybe, just maybe.. SOCIETY SHOULD GET THE BLOODY HELL OVER ITSELF AND MIND ITS OWN BUSINESS!

[Grizzly]

I know I came in a bit late, but...

Even if you assume this to be necessarily true, people undertake dangerous jobs all over the economy.. and in free markets are compensated for it at the market rate. For example, Miners are paid wages well beyond that typical of their skill level. The surplus is in exchange for their acceptance of the risks associated with their profession. This is completely legitimate.

I believe that one of the key functions of a legal system in a free society, AND a free economy, should be to preserve the principle that anyone has the right to do anything they want, PROVIDED their actions don't impede the rights of any other person/entity..

Miners have a right to trade with their acceptance of risks, septic tank cleaners have a right to trade with their willingness to smell like shit, prostitutes have a right to trade with their willingness to pleasure ugly and appealing men alike, and consumers have a right to pay market rates for these services.. IF THAT IS THEIR CHOICE!

Making prostitution illegal seems to quash a lot of rights.. without actually protecting any.


Doesnt appear as if your "late arrival" has effected your statements relevance.

Tho numerous studies (ex. Disposable People - by Kevin Bales) have indicated that many sex workers do not get the option of choosing the profession.

So in the best case scenario, these sex workers (male or female) are paid accordingly for the risk/discomfort included with the work.
The worst case scenario is akin to the blight of slavery.

But its easily arguable that prostitution (sex for payment) has been present in our societies from their inception.

Whether it be a widowed tribe member sleeping with the successful hunters in the group to get meat to feed her children, to a Japanese woman getting paid 2 grand a session to dress up like Lucy Lu and beat some pudgy foreign traveler with a whip.
The act of providing sexual services for payment is still the same.

No matter if the the social mores of the society find it acceptable or not, from the vomitoriums of Rome, to the parlors of Victorian England, prostitution has been available if you know where to look.

I think that keeping it transparent and controlled to a certain degree can help mitigate the worst case scenario.

[Shakyamuni]

Regulation is better for the people directly involved.

However, for the society as a whole are these the social values that we want to be promoting in our people? Instant gratification and the objectification of women (and men too I guess)? Probably not. Most INTJs seem to be long term thinkers, and while short term gain is useful, I think most would trade sex now for a long lasting and successful relationship five years from now.

So I would like to see it regulated, but highly taxed, much like cigarettes/alcohol.





Shakyamuni added to this post, 0 minutes and 48 seconds later...

why is this in work and education??????????

[SoupNazi]

Most INTJs seem to be long term thinkers, and while short term gain is useful, I think most would trade sex now for a long lasting and successful relationship five years from now.

But that is not the choice.. making prostitution illegal, or choosing not to participate in it, will not improve a persons ability to forge a long term relationship

So I would like to see it regulated, but highly taxed, much like cigarettes/alcohol.
Cigarettes/Alcohol cost health systems billions around the world, and are arguably the cause of other external effects (passive smoking, crime, etc). For these reasons, I can accept that these may be special cases, where governments might be justified in treating those industries differently to others. This argument does not apply to prostitution.

As for other arguments.. such as society wanting to discourage prostitution for reasons pertaining to personal values.. well, I've already explained what I believe the role of legislators to be on such matters. I think it's similar to issues such as gay marriage.. you might agree or disagree, but ultimately if all parties are consenting, it's none of the governments business in my opinion.

[kriss]

I agree with the soupnazi-no soup for you!

To add to the point, taxing prostitution will be like hunting for Red October. I don't think many people will be declaring that on their own tax returns right? From what I understand, it's a cash trade for the most part. Secondly, if you highly tax it, people are just going to find even more ways to do it illegally.

Prostitution does not cost lives and tax dollars on health care as does alcoholism or smoking. It may be "associated" with issues in some parts of the world such as IV drugs use, poverty, lower socio-economic backgrounds etc, but it does not per se cause lung or liver cancer such as tobacco and alcohol. People don't kill or break into houses and beat people up in the street over prostitution nor perform offensive behaviour such as urinating in the street after they have seen a prostitute, so what's the big deal?

[konec]

I agree with the soupnazi-no soup for you!

To add to the point, taxing prostitution will be like hunting for Red October. I don't think many people will be declaring that on their own tax returns right? From what I understand, it's a cash trade for the most part. Secondly, if you highly tax it, people are just going to find even more ways to do it illegally.

Prostitution does not cost lives and tax dollars on health care as does alcoholism or smoking. It may be "associated" with issues in some parts of the world such as IV drugs use, poverty, lower socio-economic backgrounds etc, but it does not per se cause lung or liver cancer such as tobacco and alcohol. People don't kill or break into houses and beat people up in the street over prostitution nor perform offensive behaviour such as urinating in the street after they have seen a prostitute, so what's the big deal?

I think the big deal is that a lot of people working in prostitution are not working there out of free will. If it is a choice, it is often a negative choice; going for the money to cover debts or deal with other problems.

As for your thoughts on taxing it. I dont know any numbers on this, but its legal over here and prostitutes are supposed to pay taxes.

Side track on health care and alcoholism+smoking. Healthy people tend to cost the health care system more, because they live longer.

[SoupNazi]

I think the big deal is that a lot of people working in prostitution are not working there out of free will.

If you’re saying you’re against slavery, I agree. Prostitution is not slavery, and is less likely to be associated with slavery if it has not been forced underground (and under the control of criminals) by the law

If it is a choice, it is often a negative choice; going for the money to cover debts or deal with other problems.
Some people who are in debt work three jobs, and resultantly are overworked, forced to neglect their families, are highly stressed, and have compromised health.

Others choose to work as prostitutes, don’t enjoy it (as above), but do not need to work as often

Others choose to work as prostitutes, enjoy their work, and are consequently very good at it. These people earn $500-$1000 per hour +, work one or two days a week, and are often very selective about their clients

Just because somebody has been motivated toward their work because they need money, it doesn’t make it any less ‘legitimate’ work.

Side track on health care and alcoholism+smoking. Healthy people tend to cost the health care system more, because they live longer.
• What information is this based on?
• If it is true, is it not a reasonable bargain to incur greater medical expense associated with a longer life (vs those expenses resulting from smoking/alcoholism, which are associated with a shorter life).
• Will a longer life not also be associated with increased productive capacity, and thus increased tax revenues, negating or reversing the effect?
• Are you saying that we should tax good health? Or that we have no basis to tax smoking/alcohol at higher rates? Or perhaps instead we should tax health services themselves, since they result in longer life and thus occasion the need for additional health services in the future?

[kriss]

If it is a choice, it is often a negative choice; going for the money to cover debts or deal with other problems.

True, none the less it is still a choice. Many of us have lost an enormous amount of money on the stock market this year. We can choose to murder someone, rob a bank or break into someone's house for money. Most of us choose not to do so. There are always other options and ultimately it is up to the individual. Most of us decide to pay of our debts by other means ie, work an extra job, more hours etc. IF one wants the easy way out at the cost of one's body, this is one's choice. I certainly don't choose to pimp out my virgin asian ass because of the large 5 digit sum I've lost this year.

As for your thoughts on taxing it. I dont know any numbers on this, but its legal over here and prostitutes are supposed to pay taxes.

True as well. Note: Suppose too. This is a cash based industry. How many men are going to pay with their credit cards when their wives have access to their bank statements? How many will actually declared the income they pay? I very much doubt that women in the industry will admit to their accountant that they are a professional whore. Having a "prostitution tax" will not make a dent in the industry, nor will it have the desired effects. It will end up another failed "holier than thou" policy implemented by "holier than thou" politicians. I very much doubt that an extra tax will help IV drug rehabs. An extra tax will just be another excuse for professionals to raise their rates and still say "cash only". Why don't you google "escorts" and see some of the ads.

Healthy people tend to cost the health care system more, because they live longer.

This statement does not make sense!! If an elderly person is healthy, why would they need to spend on health care? As a surgical trainee, I am qualified to rebut your statement. Most of the diseases in the health care system are caused by chronic diseases due to lifestyle factors such as obesity, smoking, alcohol, hypercholesterolemia which are associated with diabetes, chronic heart disease and cancer-not because people are elderly or are prostitutes. Patients who present to the public health care system, for the most part are about to die or will be dead within the next 5 to 10 years because of these diseases in "unhealthy individuals".

Of track. (And this information can be found in a reputable textbook such as Robbins Pathology which has been around for decades) HIV is much less likely to be transmitted via prostitution in a country like Australia which have very strict regulations for prostitution. Most HIV sufferers are gay men(upto 80%) the other 15% from IV drug abusers, 5% from a mixture of pre-1985 blood tranfusions, needlestick injuries, heterosexual contact etc. I was at a professional development lecture the other day which stated that less than 0.5% of HIV sufferers are heterosexual. Given that there are 15000 sufferers in Oz, that makes the number of heterosexuals less than 750 out of a population 22000000. I very much doubt that prostitution when regulated really spreads that much disease. You probably have more chance of getting it from a one night stand with some cheap dirty ho you picked up at local pub.

[konec]

This statement does not make sense!! If an elderly person is healthy, why would they need to spend on health care? As a surgical trainee, I am qualified to rebut your statement. Most of the diseases in the health care system are caused by chronic diseases due to lifestyle factors such as obesity, smoking, alcohol, hypercholesterolemia which are associated with diabetes, chronic heart disease and cancer-not because people are elderly or are prostitutes. Patients who present to the public health care system, for the most part are about to die or will be dead within the next 5 to 10 years because of these diseases in "unhealthy individuals".


I didnt do the research. I just remembered the outcome:

Until age 56 y, annual health expenditure was highest for obese people. At older ages, smokers incurred higher costs. Because of differences in life expectancy, however, lifetime health expenditure was highest among healthy-living people and lowest for smokers. Obese individuals held an intermediate position. Alternative values of epidemiologic parameters and cost definitions did not alter these conclusions.

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[kriss]

I didnt do the research. I just remembered the outcome:

Until age 56 y, annual health expenditure was highest for obese people. At older ages, smokers incurred higher costs. Because of differences in life expectancy, however, lifetime health expenditure was highest among healthy-living people and lowest for smokers. Obese individuals held an intermediate position. Alternative values of epidemiologic parameters and cost definitions did not alter these conclusions.

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I think you have oversimplified this article. This has a lot of variables and many of the arguments are based on hypothesis and not any real verified facts, ie: "it may be because" based on this that and the other. It even states that "The explanation for this hypothesis is that the life-years gained by prevention are not all lived in full health. While effective prevention will lead to a decrease in risk factor-related diseases, which may result in savings, these savings may be offset by cost increases related to an increase in diseases in life-years gained" which contradicts your statement. (Please also note the apparent inverted comma's used in the article - "healthy individuals" which implies something else........).

Secondly, there are various types of evidence based articles with with different levels of evidence ie:Randomised controlled trials, cohort, case studeis etc. Articles are even biased based on who wrote them. Anyone involved in research generally has an agenda, ie to make a political statement, to promote what they believe in, to promote a product etc.

Thirdly, my original argument was comparing prostitution with other forms of self-indulgences such as alcohol and tobacco use. It didn't really have anything to do with supposedly healthy people. The statement regarding healthy people still doesn't make sense.

[Saint]

"Selling is legal. Fucking is legal. Why isn't selling fucking legal?"

-George Carlin (the recently deceased)

[Stargazer]

I live in Nevada where prostitution IS legal. Each house is a well-run business. It has all of the traditional aspects of business and must be managed as such. I agree much with the "philosophy" of the late George Carlin: "Why is it illegal to sell something that's perfectly legal to give away?"

The choice is an individual choice and I personally am all for limiting the intrusion of government or religion into the personal life. The sale of sex is no different than the sale of services provided by a maid (or any other service or work). It is simply expendature of energy. You are paying for sweat, for a lack of better words. The only differences are what is accomplished by such an expendature of energy, how the parties benefit and whether or not it is enjoyed sexually. The moment the expendature of Calories becomes sexual, the religious doctrines of the past centuries suddenly cloud the issue.

Our entire heartburn over the issue is that it is morally questionable. And why is it morally questionable? Because the church and government says that it is. Yet, by definition, morality is what is considered decent by the majority of a population. And populations tend to follow and PUBLICLY proclaim that they follow the opinions of religeous and government figureheads. If they do not, they risk being ostrasized. Yet, in a related subject, pornography is a booming industry that grows larger every year and caters to almost every desire a person could imagine. This would tend to suggest that the population does not have as big an issue with it as is generally made to be believed.

It is rather unfortunate that prostitution is illegal and immoral in most places. The trafficing of sexual slaves, spread of infectious sexually transmitted diseases, and the stigma induced for participating in a natural human desire and nessecity, would be significantly reduced, which most certainly would be beneficial.

While prostitution is usually considered an occupation for women, it must be said that men should also be allowed into the occupation. Our society is evolving to include non-traditional lifestyles and this is not a bad thing, only a natural thing. Acts of homosexualism can be found throughout nature, so it is not confined only to humans. Looking back in history, these very relationships were widely accepted. In the age of the Roman Empire sexual relations with children was even accepted and practiced--not just by the emporer Caligula as most people are familiar, but by the population as well.

If a person of free will chooses to engage in such activities for profit, then so be it. Who are we to say that they should not? It does not violate any fundamental law of nature. And if someone whishes to pay for such services, then why not? The same criterion applies. Rather long winded, but it is my opinion.

[sam988]

I think it's so dumb that prostitution is illegal in some places. This is a fruit of closed mindedness, generated by certain closed minded religions and belief systems.